Daredevil: Guilty as Sin

March 20, 2016 8:47 AM - Season 2, Episode 8

As the firm's trial spins out of control, a figure from Murdock's past returns to deliver shocking revelations about the future of Hell's Kitchen.

*Clancy Brown guest stars as Colonel Ray Schoonover
*Stick returns, revealing that the enemy is not the Yakuza, but The Hand. And that Elektra has been working for him since before Matt ever met her.
*The return of Fisk! Final moments of the episode reveal that he was the source of the guard's whispered threat which led to Castle's implosion on the stand.

posted by oh yeah! (17 comments total)

I imagine there's a lot of head-desking watching this show for anyone with any practical knowledge of courtroom procedures, but I'm guessing this episode was particularly concussion-inducing? I mean, I don't think having permission to treat your witness as hostile means you get to stop questioning and just skip ahead to making a closing argument to the jury. And why wouldn't Frank have been wearing a suit all trial long if that was an option? And why was he called to the stand from another room, shouldn't he have been sitting at the defense's table from the start of the session? And why would the whispering guard be at the courtroom if he works at the prison, guards don't tag along on prison transfers. Whatever, I guess.

More importantly, Fisk! I didn't know he was going to be back this season - I wasn't very into S1 of the series, but was surprisingly gleeful to see him turn up at the end, can't wait to see what he's up to and what he threatened or enticed Castle with to get him to throw the case.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:51 AM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]

Historians should do more work on that period when an army of immortal ninjas ruled most of Asia. I feel like we didn't really learn much about that in school.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:41 AM on March 20, 2016 [9 favorites]

Also yeah, all treating a witness as hostile means is that you get permission to ask leading question during direct examination of your witness, as the other side would be able to do during cross-examination. It doesn't mean you get to just say whatever you want in any way you want.

But trials in movies and TV never completely stick to real court procedures, because real court procedures, by design, make for bad drama. Which is fine; we watch these shows for entertainment not education.

Also, Stick really needs to drop the Mysterious Badass thing. It's hurting his ability to keep his recruits. Instead of always saying vague stuff like 'You have no idea about the coming war/how much I've protected you/etc." and just tell the person exactly what the deal is, and they'd probably follow you.

Stick needs to just recruit Frank.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:14 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

That would be wonderful. Can you imagine canon-nazis heads exploding? Unless you're referring to an actual comics storyline, in which case... yes, they're made for each other.

I must confess I've only just got past the opening scene so far. Ninjas! More Ninjas! A cranky old blind guy driving a crapped out car at high speed then performing emergency surgery! This is the kind of ludicrousness I signed up for.
posted by Grangousier at 2:01 PM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

Historians should do more work on that period when an army of immortal ninjas ruled most of Asia.

You mean the 1980s?
posted by happyroach at 2:31 PM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also, Stick really needs to drop the Mysterious Badass thing. It's hurting his ability to keep his recruits.

This is true, but Stick's strategic planning is unavoidably limited by the fact that he is an asshole.
posted by misfish at 3:35 PM on March 20, 2016 [9 favorites]

I imagine there's a lot of head-desking watching this show for anyone with any practical knowledge of courtroom procedures, but I'm guessing this episode was particularly concussion-inducing? I mean, I don't think having permission to treat your witness as hostile means you get to stop questioning and just skip ahead to making a closing argument to the jury.

Oh, gods yes. My head still hurts. And I need a new coffee table.

"LET ME NOW MONOLOGUE AT YOU INCOHERENTLY AND ENDORSE VIGILANTE JUSTICE WHILE INSULTING THE COMPETENCE OF THE ENTIRE POLICE FORCE."

"NO MORE QUESTIONS."

"But, Matt, you didn't ask any questi..."

"I SAID NO MORE QUESTIONS!"

[Matt dusts off his hands]

"There, that should humanise him".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:02 PM on March 20, 2016 [10 favorites]

I can't believe Matt didn't follow up on the guard's whisper later on; I seriously thought he'd just guaranteed himself an evening visit from Daredevil. The apathy towards the Punisher case is making me really not give a shit about what's going on with Elektra, mysterious ninja, and 40-story holes, which is too bad because I get the feeling that's what the show wants me to care about.
posted by ODiV at 8:08 PM on March 20, 2016

Ugh, the whole thing about the Hand and the Chased is the worst kind of comic book nonsense. Probably that is stupid complaint. I like the dramatic scale of the single city and its actors better though. Global battles and the end of the world are like brickwalling the plot. So fatiguing! I think the principal characters feel the same way, however.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 9:35 PM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have to say, this was the most interesting episode for me so far. Elektra gets some random poison, turns out that she's Stick's puppet, Stick is back, Karen is all "outta here," Matt and Elektra ponder getting back together for five seconds until he realizes she just kills automatically (toldya two girls is gonna equal no girls), and Frank explodes in public due to Wilson Fisk. A wowza of an episode for me!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:14 PM on March 20, 2016

Remember, for every ninja you see, there's anti-gay hunters in their nest.
posted by happyroach at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2016

Thankfully, the trial seems to be over because my suspension of disbelief could handle invisible ninjas but could not survive the idea that Foggy would think it was a good idea to put Frank on the stand and everything thereafter. Luckily for everyone, Wilson Fisk is riding to the show's rescue.

Also, what is the Daredevil approved way of dealing with a million zillion ninjas? Does he just knock them out and call the cops to come arrest them? And for what? Ninjaing with out a license? I would normally not think about this too hard, but the "no killing" rule seems to be the central conflict of the season.
posted by Jugwine at 6:34 AM on March 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm glad to see Elektra developed beyond the spoiled and unbalanced ex girlfriend. Until she revealed that encouraging Matt to kill was a mission from Stick, her motivation was essentially "crazy women be crazy, right??" which had me rolling my eyes.
posted by almostmanda at 8:42 AM on March 22, 2016

Also, what is the Daredevil approved way of dealing with a million zillion ninjas? Does he just knock them out and call the cops to come arrest them? And for what? Ninjaing with out a license? I would normally not think about this too hard, but the "no killing" rule seems to be the central conflict of the season.

It worked for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

When Stick left the knife in the table, it automatically became Checkov's Knife, so I was a bit relieved when Elektra put it to use. Though, I know we're in the back half of the season, it might have been worthwhile to allow Elektra the illusion of trying to be the good that Matt thinks she can be, than dismissing it within about five minutes.

This episode kind of pulled in the Caravaggio art that inspired the DD Season 2 promo material with Matt being stuck up with an arrow or two.

I love Scott Glen, but he didn't quite seem to have as much annoyed gruff to his voice in this episode. I don't know if that means he's getting old or just didn't play the role the way I wanted him to.

Fisk was indeed a fun surprise! I'm extremely curious to see whether he sacrifices the 'reserve' out of a bid to establish his power base. He's gone into prison one villain and will come out another.

And courtroom hijinks....let's just pray we're done with it.
posted by Atreides at 7:05 AM on March 23, 2016

So I'm being my usual slowpoke self with watching, but I'm astonished at what a hot mess this season seems to be. The legal bits have been farcical, and while the action sequences are well choreographed, the stakes on that side are so opaque that I just don't care. Stick's ongoing air of mystery combined with general dickishness doesn't help; and then after revealing this whole Hand/Chased mytho-crap, we then get to the "Black Sky" business. Which is some super weapon. But nobody knows what it does or is.

So, courtroom trial where I don't really care about the guy on trial because while he could be interesting, his story is still pretty much the usual generic hardass whose wife and children got fridged; there's no coherent defence strategy that I can detect beyond "he was a good guy, his family was murdered and it was covered up, he got hurt, so it is ok that he gunned down all these people"; the trial itself is a poor sham of a legal proceeding even by TV legal proceeding standards; and the big threat to everything Matt is trying to protect is a mystery wrapped in a riddle told by a cantankerous old man who doesn't really know himself what bad thing might happen and who also purposely withholds information. And Matt's girlfriend just slits the throat of a helpless, beaten kid moments after making the decision to try to live with Matt and fight the way he does.

I hope having Fisk back makes this season into something because right now, I would rather watch Foggy, Karen, and the Night Nurse team up to open a joint legal aid/medical clinic and leave the superheroes to their self-involved shitbaggery.
posted by nubs at 7:39 AM on March 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

I really like how DD isn't perfect and its shown that there's cost to him being a superhero at night. His regular work suffers and his relationships suffer and its all by his choice, because he kinda likes operating outside the law.

On the plus side, its forcing Foggy to step up and be awesome, so win some, lose some!

The trial stuff is silly though, good lord, what the fuck. Hopefully the appearance by Fisk puts that all in the background.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:08 PM on March 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is it The Chased? Or The Chaste?

Also, can we please get on with Big Giant Hole part of the plot?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:12 PM on March 15, 2021