Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
July 7, 2017 9:36 AM - Subscribe
Following the events of Captain America: Civil War, Peter Parker, with the help of his mentor Tony Stark, tries to balance his life as an ordinary high school student in Queens, New York City, with fighting crime as his superhero alter ego Spider-Man as a new threat, the Vulture, emerges.
As it turns out, the real fight is the class war.
As it turns out, the real fight is the class war.
Man, they finally got Spider-Man right. The first two minutes lay out the story and motivations of the villain in way that makes complete sense, while tied to the larger MCU. That strikes a perfect tone for what follows for the rest of the movie.
The cast was very good and felt like high school students. Plus they were wonderfully diverse in way that felt incredibly real for New York. Robert Downey lent a nice edge with gravitas to the themes. But its Tom Holland who brings it home as Peter Parker, with a light touch to a well know character. He doesn't push too hard, blending right into the role ofa somewhat geeky teenager who wants to do right and finds himself with the power to do so.
If there's any complaints, it's that the final battle takes place at night and is a bit dark and fast moving to grasp everything. But mercifully the traditional mano y mano fight is short and does a good job of showing Peter Parker's character, so it mostly works.
Michael Keaton was great as The Vulture, though I don't think his name is ever mentioned. Admittedly I was completely surprised by the fake out of who he was, it was so perfectly played and the scenes following the reveal did a great job of amping up the tension, giving them both actors a chance to shine.
Looking forward to sequel, due on 2019 or so, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:19 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
The cast was very good and felt like high school students. Plus they were wonderfully diverse in way that felt incredibly real for New York. Robert Downey lent a nice edge with gravitas to the themes. But its Tom Holland who brings it home as Peter Parker, with a light touch to a well know character. He doesn't push too hard, blending right into the role ofa somewhat geeky teenager who wants to do right and finds himself with the power to do so.
If there's any complaints, it's that the final battle takes place at night and is a bit dark and fast moving to grasp everything. But mercifully the traditional mano y mano fight is short and does a good job of showing Peter Parker's character, so it mostly works.
Michael Keaton was great as The Vulture, though I don't think his name is ever mentioned. Admittedly I was completely surprised by the fake out of who he was, it was so perfectly played and the scenes following the reveal did a great job of amping up the tension, giving them both actors a chance to shine.
Looking forward to sequel, due on 2019 or so, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:19 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
though I don't think his name is ever mentioned.
What is this, pro wrestling?
posted by GuyZero at 1:49 PM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
What is this, pro wrestling?
posted by GuyZero at 1:49 PM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I really enjoyed this! Though almost none of them got much to do, I loved seeing how diverse the high school student cast was. I agree that I thought the film portrayed the agony of high school nerdom well.
There are some definite handwavy elements to the plot (seriously, no one's noticed a giant steampunk/alien Vulture flapping around? Tony's not tracking weird power surges? What are the limits of Spidey's powers, anyway?) but Tom Holland is utterly adorable and I loved that both of the girl crushes (counting MJ) were women of color. And yes, Zendaya stole every scene she was in.
posted by TwoStride at 1:58 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are some definite handwavy elements to the plot (seriously, no one's noticed a giant steampunk/alien Vulture flapping around? Tony's not tracking weird power surges? What are the limits of Spidey's powers, anyway?) but Tom Holland is utterly adorable and I loved that both of the girl crushes (counting MJ) were women of color. And yes, Zendaya stole every scene she was in.
posted by TwoStride at 1:58 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
SPIDER-MAN
SAVED
THE
BODEGA
KITTYYYY
❤️🐱😭❤️
posted by nicebookrack at 2:36 PM on July 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
SAVED
THE
BODEGA
KITTYYYY
❤️🐱😭❤️
posted by nicebookrack at 2:36 PM on July 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Also the Spider-Man image used for this page has no hyphen in Spider-Man and is therefore blasphemy.
posted by nicebookrack at 2:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 2:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Loved it for all the reasons mentioned so far, but also:
posted by entropicamericana at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
- They managed to somehow do the Peter-is-missing-out-on-a-normal-life-and-always-letting-
- his-friends-down thing without it being a total cingey sad sack downer.
- The entire theater gasped at the reveal of Liz's dad.
- The homage in the warehouse afterwards to that classic sequence in that old issue of ASM.
- The ending! Got a huge laugh from everyone. I hope they continue down that path in the sequel instead of retconning it because it made for some compelling stories in the comics.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, the voice actress for Karen is Jennifer Connelly, who is married to Paul Bettany, who is the voice/actor for JARVISion.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:50 PM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 9:50 PM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
There are all sorts of neat little connections; the guy who played Sam Weir on Freaks and Geeks cowrote the movie, and Martin Starr, who played Sam's friend, is the science quiz team coach. (The actress who played Lindsay Weir is Hawkeye's wife in Age of Ultron.) One thing that turned out not to be a connection, though, was that I swore that the first Shocker was played by Tom Hardy, who of course was Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, and in that scene he's opposite Keaton, so, you know. (They weren't in the same incarnation of Batman, but still.) Turns out that he's just a Tom Hardy lookalike.
Also, anyone want to lay odds that Donald Glover turns out to be the Prowler in a sequel?
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:10 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, anyone want to lay odds that Donald Glover turns out to be the Prowler in a sequel?
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:10 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Halloween Jack: I'll lay odds for future Prowler Gambino at 99% if the future odds for Miles Morales/Spider-Man are also 60+%, because Glover's Aaron Davis is concerned about area guns with "a nephew in this neighborhood," and Ultimate Prowler was Miles Morales's uncle. But I'm guessing you knew that. 😉
posted by nicebookrack at 10:18 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 10:18 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's coming back to me now, yeah. And that would be very cool.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:26 PM on July 7, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:26 PM on July 7, 2017
Oh, hey, and also too: Tom Hardy will be appearing in a non-MCU Venom movie that has no connection to this incarnation of Spidey, so there's that.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:30 PM on July 7, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:30 PM on July 7, 2017
LOVED the callback to Amazing Spider-Man #33.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:54 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:54 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Another possible future character: the Asian girl on the academic decathlon team is named Cindy, meaning she could be Cindy Moon aka Silk.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:56 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 8:56 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll lay odds for future Prowler Gambino at 99% if the future odds for Miles Morales/Spider-Man are also 60+%, because Glover's Aaron Davis is concerned about area guns with "a nephew in this neighborhood," and Ultimate Prowler was Miles Morales's uncle. But I'm guessing you knew that.
Kevin Feige has confirmed that Miles is in the MCU, somewhere.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:53 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kevin Feige has confirmed that Miles is in the MCU, somewhere.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:53 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kevin Feige interview.
You can tell that this is a Spider-Man movie made by a huge Spider-Man geek.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:48 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
You can tell that this is a Spider-Man movie made by a huge Spider-Man geek.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:48 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's a stinger at the very end of the credits which I believe is a callback to Ferris Beuller's Day Off.
posted by cazoo at 2:04 PM on July 8, 2017
posted by cazoo at 2:04 PM on July 8, 2017
Hell, there's an homage to Ferris Beuller's Day Off in the movie, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:10 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:10 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Holland's the best Spidey ever. The Bendis callbacks (the Lego destruction, Miles's uncle) were great. New York felt like more than an assemblage of skyscrapers. And oh god did they pick the right version of Cap's uniform for those PSAs. I forgot how bad it looked.
Keaton was great too. The scene in the car was tense, and he was a really intense but grounded and believable bad guy. Also I have no idea who Zendaya is but I like this new MJ better than "face it, Tiger". She doesn't look like a damsel in distress or someone to fail KSD's sexy lamp test. She's a force to be reckoned with.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Keaton was great too. The scene in the car was tense, and he was a really intense but grounded and believable bad guy. Also I have no idea who Zendaya is but I like this new MJ better than "face it, Tiger". She doesn't look like a damsel in distress or someone to fail KSD's sexy lamp test. She's a force to be reckoned with.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am also very grateful that this wasn't another Avengers movie. I was really worried about that. I'm fine with crossovers, and he's more than welcome in Infinity War, but let him fight the sinister six or whatever in his movies.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:14 PM on July 8, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 8:14 PM on July 8, 2017
New York felt like more than an assemblage of skyscrapers.
That's another thing that I liked; the "Ferris Bueller tribute" was also a commentary that his web-swinging thing would be difficult outside of Midtown or Lower Manhattan, and impossible in the more suburby parts of NYC. Good luck trying to get a decent arc going in Astoria or Canarsie.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:27 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's another thing that I liked; the "Ferris Bueller tribute" was also a commentary that his web-swinging thing would be difficult outside of Midtown or Lower Manhattan, and impossible in the more suburby parts of NYC. Good luck trying to get a decent arc going in Astoria or Canarsie.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:27 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
but let him fight the sinister six or whatever in his movies.
Oh yeah, really liked how other villains were set up for the future. Plus, everyone getting their "powers" from the leftovers of the Battle of New York makes really good sense and neatly explains why there's so many super types in NYC.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:37 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, really liked how other villains were set up for the future. Plus, everyone getting their "powers" from the leftovers of the Battle of New York makes really good sense and neatly explains why there's so many super types in NYC.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:37 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's another thing that I liked; the "Ferris Bueller tribute" was also a commentary that his web-swinging thing would be difficult outside of Midtown or Lower Manhattan, and impossible in the more suburby parts of NYC. Good luck trying to get a decent arc going in Astoria or Canarsie.
Didn't he spend the entirety of the movie outside of Manhattan? I liked that part the best, I think.
posted by Automocar at 11:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Didn't he spend the entirety of the movie outside of Manhattan? I liked that part the best, I think.
posted by Automocar at 11:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Didn't he spend the entirety of the movie outside of Manhattan? I liked that part the best, I think.
That was a conscious decision made very early on in the process. They sat down with a big list of stuff we've already seen Spidey do onscreen, and made a point of avoiding those tropes. Super smart call, and thank god we didn't have to watch poor old Uncle Ben die again.
I loved this movie so much. In a lot of ways, I feel like it was the first real Spider-Film. He finally has jokes!! It's the first Spidey picture to make me lol thinking about it the day after. The enhanced interrogation scene is an instant classic ("I'm not a boy, I'm a man! I'm not a girl, I'm a boy!")
Marissa Tomei was wonderful, if somewhat underused. The montage of getting Peter ready for homecoming was really sweet. I love that this Aunt May knows from go that Pete's been sneaking out, and I'm looking forward to the fallout of that final scene. Maybe in the sequel don't have half the adult male characters make leering comments about her though?
Michael Keaton was amazing, and this take on the Vulture as a scavenger of the MCU is so brilliant and simple and great. While the Revered Words about power and responsibility are never spoken, that theme is shot through this entire picture. How responsible are Tony and the Avengers for everything they left Adrian to find? Is it more responsible to keep Peter grounded and out of the way, or is it irresponsible to refuse his help and keep him in the dark? And of course as far as Adrian's concerned, he's still doing his job to do right by his family, to be a responsible father. And when his family has to cope with Adrian going to jail, how much of that is Peter responsible for? Far as I'm concerned, the Vulture has joined the Purple Man, the Penguin and the Reverse Flash in the League of Villains Who are Better on the Show. No Vulture comic story has ever hit me the way Keaton's performance did.
There's just so much Spidey packed into this film! Maybe this upcoming Venom picture won't connect to this Spider-Man, and we'll never see Tom Holland put on the black costume and jazz dance at Zendaya. But this one had the "Peter succumbs a little bit to the power of his costume" story beat already. I'd be fine if this Spider-Man never had to deal with an Osborn or a Goblin, but this movie had two sequences of Spidey dodging a villain's unmanned glider. And the ASM 33 scene! I gasped at the first shot of that sequence, framed exactly as it was drawn. How is the sixth Spider-Man movie the first one to stage this moment?
I loved it. I think I'm going to go back to see it again. Did any of y'all watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I forever regret never seeing Dr. Strange in that format.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:39 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
That was a conscious decision made very early on in the process. They sat down with a big list of stuff we've already seen Spidey do onscreen, and made a point of avoiding those tropes. Super smart call, and thank god we didn't have to watch poor old Uncle Ben die again.
I loved this movie so much. In a lot of ways, I feel like it was the first real Spider-Film. He finally has jokes!! It's the first Spidey picture to make me lol thinking about it the day after. The enhanced interrogation scene is an instant classic ("I'm not a boy, I'm a man! I'm not a girl, I'm a boy!")
Marissa Tomei was wonderful, if somewhat underused. The montage of getting Peter ready for homecoming was really sweet. I love that this Aunt May knows from go that Pete's been sneaking out, and I'm looking forward to the fallout of that final scene. Maybe in the sequel don't have half the adult male characters make leering comments about her though?
Michael Keaton was amazing, and this take on the Vulture as a scavenger of the MCU is so brilliant and simple and great. While the Revered Words about power and responsibility are never spoken, that theme is shot through this entire picture. How responsible are Tony and the Avengers for everything they left Adrian to find? Is it more responsible to keep Peter grounded and out of the way, or is it irresponsible to refuse his help and keep him in the dark? And of course as far as Adrian's concerned, he's still doing his job to do right by his family, to be a responsible father. And when his family has to cope with Adrian going to jail, how much of that is Peter responsible for? Far as I'm concerned, the Vulture has joined the Purple Man, the Penguin and the Reverse Flash in the League of Villains Who are Better on the Show. No Vulture comic story has ever hit me the way Keaton's performance did.
There's just so much Spidey packed into this film! Maybe this upcoming Venom picture won't connect to this Spider-Man, and we'll never see Tom Holland put on the black costume and jazz dance at Zendaya. But this one had the "Peter succumbs a little bit to the power of his costume" story beat already. I'd be fine if this Spider-Man never had to deal with an Osborn or a Goblin, but this movie had two sequences of Spidey dodging a villain's unmanned glider. And the ASM 33 scene! I gasped at the first shot of that sequence, framed exactly as it was drawn. How is the sixth Spider-Man movie the first one to stage this moment?
I loved it. I think I'm going to go back to see it again. Did any of y'all watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I forever regret never seeing Dr. Strange in that format.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:39 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
I just saw it in 3D and it was okay but I didn't notice anything that really screamed "I'm glad I saw this in 3D".
My question is how you reprise "Blitzkrieg Bop" over the credits and not the Ramones version of the Spider-Man theme. That would've been perfect.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:01 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
My question is how you reprise "Blitzkrieg Bop" over the credits and not the Ramones version of the Spider-Man theme. That would've been perfect.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:01 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Didn't he spend the entirety of the movie outside of Manhattan? I liked that part the best, I think.
Doesn't he jump on the Staten Island ferry at the Manhattan terminal, or am I misremembering?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Doesn't he jump on the Staten Island ferry at the Manhattan terminal, or am I misremembering?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey so I know I only feel this way because I watched Orphan Black and Better Call Saul, but Michael Mando seems too big to have put in a small throwaway role. Is there some ...
... you know, I have access to the internet and I answered my own question. I was not familiar with the name Mac Gargan off the top of my head but there's plenty here.
which is awesome, because I like Michael Mando.
posted by komara at 7:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
... you know, I have access to the internet and I answered my own question. I was not familiar with the name Mac Gargan off the top of my head but there's plenty here.
which is awesome, because I like Michael Mando.
posted by komara at 7:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was not familiar with the name Mac Gargan off the top of my head but there's plenty here.
He even had an appropriate neck tattoo!
posted by jdherg at 7:25 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
He even had an appropriate neck tattoo!
posted by jdherg at 7:25 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was the one very small disappointment in the movie for me; when I saw "Mac Gargan", I was hoping that he'd show up with the appropriate accessory, but the end credits scene hints that we may be seeing him again with, say, about five buddies or so.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:31 PM on July 9, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:31 PM on July 9, 2017
We got three, so halfway there
posted by middleclasstool at 10:53 PM on July 9, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 10:53 PM on July 9, 2017
Also: I feel like the name "Karen" is an easter egg but I don't know what it is a reference to?
Well, the voice actress for Karen is Jennifer Connelly, who is married to Paul Bettany, who is the voice/actor for JARVISion.
"Karen" is also the name of Plankton's computer wife on Spongebob Squarepants
posted by briank at 5:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, the voice actress for Karen is Jennifer Connelly, who is married to Paul Bettany, who is the voice/actor for JARVISion.
"Karen" is also the name of Plankton's computer wife on Spongebob Squarepants
posted by briank at 5:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
That was the one very small disappointment in the movie for me; when I saw "Mac Gargan", I was hoping that he'd show up with the appropriate accessory, but the end credits scene hints that we may be seeing him again with, say, about five buddies or so.
That sounds pretty sinister.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
That sounds pretty sinister.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
i felt like MJ's character is usually played by a boy in his own movie, so I just find her entire deal delightful. not sure how Michelle Jones becomes MJ Watson, but if I imagine that the next movie will have Gwen Stacy, then MJ/PP will be the slowest of burns, and an earned one at that.
posted by cendawanita at 10:35 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:35 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Shame they couldn't have gotten more Freaks & Geeks alumni in there. Like someone to play, I don't know...Harry Osborn or someone.
posted by doctornecessiter at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by doctornecessiter at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mostly really enjoyed this, but wow did I ever feel like Spider-Man should have gotten in serious shit for going after the black market arms manufacturer/dealer again and putting many innocent lives at risk again. I suppose if anyone is going to look past reckless behaviour because of a successful outcome it's Stark.
The cellphone stuff, the diversity in casting, Tomei, the Cap cameo, the general energy, and the mood of this were all so so great. I just wish that the junk going on in the MCU in the last two films didn't cast a shadow over this for me and kind of taint it by association.
posted by ODiV at 6:10 PM on July 11, 2017
The cellphone stuff, the diversity in casting, Tomei, the Cap cameo, the general energy, and the mood of this were all so so great. I just wish that the junk going on in the MCU in the last two films didn't cast a shadow over this for me and kind of taint it by association.
posted by ODiV at 6:10 PM on July 11, 2017
What a disappointment this one was. Sure, I'm way outside the age range for the target audience, despite being a major Spidey fan my entire life, but it almost totally lacked the joy and emotional resonance of that first, wonderful Raimi film. The biggest problem, of course, is retconning Parker into a Stark protégé, with most plot points coming from that. What a waste. But the staleness and flatness go further than that. Where were the sharp, fun, coherent fight scenes? Where was the scene to match the emotional power of the "he's just a kid" unmasking on the train in Raimi's S2?
This new guy is cute but the script gave him almost nothing to work with beyond high school romance, then smothered him in existing MCU baggage. Maybe they'll get him right next time.
the diversity in casting
Loved that, for sure. Nicely done there.
posted by mediareport at 3:52 AM on July 12, 2017
This new guy is cute but the script gave him almost nothing to work with beyond high school romance, then smothered him in existing MCU baggage. Maybe they'll get him right next time.
the diversity in casting
Loved that, for sure. Nicely done there.
posted by mediareport at 3:52 AM on July 12, 2017
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so I will - when Shocker (v2) punches Peter he flies backwards and into some things. More than once, I think. The final time, the camera stays a fixed distance from Peter as he busts through the back door of a school bus and most of the way up the aisle. No way that's anything other than a Raimi nod; that's unquestionably a Raimi shot.
I liked the reveal of Liz's dad. I didn't see it coming until Pete is walking up the driveway and May is driving away. I thought wait, how are they going to get to the dance? And pondering the various logistics made me realize we knew nothing about her family life and I thought oh shit just as the door started to open. Delightful. Then the conversation in the car and Toomes figuring out that Pete must be Spidey... faster than Pete realizes he's figuring it out.
If I have any gripe with the movie it's that the setup is so interesting and compelling and Toomes so initially sympathetic that I kinda wanted his movie. There's a very interesting arc that we have to just accept as having already happened in between when Damage Control (squee!) shows up and kicks him off the gig and when he vaporizes Shocker v1. When he accidentally kills him there's this very fine line walked where it's not really what he wanted to do but we never see him struggle with it very much.
The biggest problem, of course, is retconning Parker into a Stark protégé, with most plot points coming from that.
I didn't mind it at all, but I'm coming to this from the perspective of thirty years of comics fandom and pretty well thinking "how many fucking spider-man movies do we need in a decade?" Plus, I looked the other way on Raimi making the web shooters organic. Why not have this alternate perspective on Spidey where he not only wrestles with his obligations but deals with wanting a different level of hero-ing?
I think they did a nice job with making it more than just "he has a Stark suit." I noticed - and Peter very much does not - that when Stark talks to him after remote-control pulling him out of the river, one of the things he mentions is that woman with the churro. A bit from the reports Spidey is leaving for Happy on voicemail, and which Stark clearly is paying attention to. They do a mediocre job communicating with each other in a way that's not ever leaving you screaming at one single obvious omission that's going to Cause Problems Later.
posted by phearlez at 12:27 PM on July 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I liked the reveal of Liz's dad. I didn't see it coming until Pete is walking up the driveway and May is driving away. I thought wait, how are they going to get to the dance? And pondering the various logistics made me realize we knew nothing about her family life and I thought oh shit just as the door started to open. Delightful. Then the conversation in the car and Toomes figuring out that Pete must be Spidey... faster than Pete realizes he's figuring it out.
If I have any gripe with the movie it's that the setup is so interesting and compelling and Toomes so initially sympathetic that I kinda wanted his movie. There's a very interesting arc that we have to just accept as having already happened in between when Damage Control (squee!) shows up and kicks him off the gig and when he vaporizes Shocker v1. When he accidentally kills him there's this very fine line walked where it's not really what he wanted to do but we never see him struggle with it very much.
The biggest problem, of course, is retconning Parker into a Stark protégé, with most plot points coming from that.
I didn't mind it at all, but I'm coming to this from the perspective of thirty years of comics fandom and pretty well thinking "how many fucking spider-man movies do we need in a decade?" Plus, I looked the other way on Raimi making the web shooters organic. Why not have this alternate perspective on Spidey where he not only wrestles with his obligations but deals with wanting a different level of hero-ing?
I think they did a nice job with making it more than just "he has a Stark suit." I noticed - and Peter very much does not - that when Stark talks to him after remote-control pulling him out of the river, one of the things he mentions is that woman with the churro. A bit from the reports Spidey is leaving for Happy on voicemail, and which Stark clearly is paying attention to. They do a mediocre job communicating with each other in a way that's not ever leaving you screaming at one single obvious omission that's going to Cause Problems Later.
posted by phearlez at 12:27 PM on July 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I really enjoyed how they explained Toomes in literally 2 minutes, it was a beautiful example of storytelling. Just from that opening scene you get a grasp of his background, who he was and how he changed from the events of the Battle of New York. Even better, the choices he made were incredibly believable. His choices might not be the ones you would make, but you could totally understand why Toomes when his route.
Having Stark as mentor of sorts was also fine and still gels with the character from the comic books. Because what's important is that Peter makes the conscious choice to stay local and get out from Tony's wing. I don't think he ever had to make that choice in the comic books, but in the movie it speaks powerfully to the character and stays true to the original.
Marvel (and superhero films) are still having the problem of what do with the climatic battle scene in the third act. Here, I think a more personal face to face between Peter and Toomes would have worked better, with Peter trying to convince Toomes to walk away from crime, e.g. just them talking. Plus, the it would have built on the terrific scene in the car! Toomes would consider changing his ways, but ultimately choose crime and then the fight begins with Peter trying to prevent Toomes from leaving, rather than the BS about the Avenger's jet (though it was nicely set up from the beginning).
The fight could and should end the same way with Peter saving Toomes, because that aspect spoke to the characterization of both: Peter wanting to save people and Toomes being getting too greedy with his new power.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Having Stark as mentor of sorts was also fine and still gels with the character from the comic books. Because what's important is that Peter makes the conscious choice to stay local and get out from Tony's wing. I don't think he ever had to make that choice in the comic books, but in the movie it speaks powerfully to the character and stays true to the original.
Marvel (and superhero films) are still having the problem of what do with the climatic battle scene in the third act. Here, I think a more personal face to face between Peter and Toomes would have worked better, with Peter trying to convince Toomes to walk away from crime, e.g. just them talking. Plus, the it would have built on the terrific scene in the car! Toomes would consider changing his ways, but ultimately choose crime and then the fight begins with Peter trying to prevent Toomes from leaving, rather than the BS about the Avenger's jet (though it was nicely set up from the beginning).
The fight could and should end the same way with Peter saving Toomes, because that aspect spoke to the characterization of both: Peter wanting to save people and Toomes being getting too greedy with his new power.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think a more personal face to face between Peter and Toomes would have worked better
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This movie dropped the ball completely in the third act, with a slight redemption when Peter turns down the Avengers gig. That climactic nighttime fight was almost as bad as anything Zack Snyder has come up with. Horrifying to think anyone in the MCU is thinking along that kind of direction. There was nothing in this film to match that still-wonderful Doc Ock battle, in broad daylight, on the side of a building.
And how is it that the CGI of Spidey wall-crawling is actually *worse* than in those first two Raimi films? Those early shots of Spidey jumping on rooftops were awful, and later shots of him scaling walls had no sense of weight at all. Bizarre to see that so poorly done.
posted by mediareport at 4:21 AM on July 14, 2017
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This movie dropped the ball completely in the third act, with a slight redemption when Peter turns down the Avengers gig. That climactic nighttime fight was almost as bad as anything Zack Snyder has come up with. Horrifying to think anyone in the MCU is thinking along that kind of direction. There was nothing in this film to match that still-wonderful Doc Ock battle, in broad daylight, on the side of a building.
And how is it that the CGI of Spidey wall-crawling is actually *worse* than in those first two Raimi films? Those early shots of Spidey jumping on rooftops were awful, and later shots of him scaling walls had no sense of weight at all. Bizarre to see that so poorly done.
posted by mediareport at 4:21 AM on July 14, 2017
The CGI was really convincing in this movie compared to Raimi's, it's 15 years worth of technological advancement. I recently went back and watched scenes from SM1 and 2 and the CG was so much more obvious than this one. I thought the fighting on the jet was really well done, considering they have to render all the camouflage reflection for each little panel on the jet. And because of that plus the fire it was never that dark, compared with the night fight scenes from the DC movies (except for WW, which was lit up by their powers glowing).
posted by numaner at 2:49 PM on July 14, 2017
posted by numaner at 2:49 PM on July 14, 2017
This movie won me over completely with the one-two punch of Vulture's origin and Peter filming himself (and hapless Happy) on his trip to Berlin (I look forward eagerly to the supercut of the airport battle with Peter's selfie clips spliced in at the appropriate times).
I thought the humor in the movie landed with remarkable consistency, partly because they were so generous with spreading around the great lines and comic bits. Like the gym teacher standing on the wrong side of Captain America's video (and muttering about how maybe he's a war criminal now, but this is a state requirement so here goes...), Donald Glover telling Spidey he's doing interrogations wrong, Aunt May being actually funny when she's teasing/scolding Peter, Ned panicking that his hat isn't working, the Training Wheels and Baby Monitor Protocols, Zendaya stealing every scene she's in, Chris Evans stealing every scene he's in, and Tom Holland himself finally giving us a really funny Spider-Man.
And Peter's fifteen! I believed he was a kid. I loved his awkwardness and thoughtless energy in that "interrogation" scene, actually misjudging a swinging arc and going SPLAT, not being magically blasé about heights, his "but I tried calling you" conversation with Stark.
I was talking to my kids a little on the way to the theater about how Spidey has been portrayed in the comics and when they asked about his Spider-Sense I happened to mention the convention of showing Peter Parker's face half-covered with a Spidey mask, so I was super pleased to see an homage to that. Also the Vulture ruffle on Keaton's coat was so good.
posted by straight at 11:55 PM on July 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I thought the humor in the movie landed with remarkable consistency, partly because they were so generous with spreading around the great lines and comic bits. Like the gym teacher standing on the wrong side of Captain America's video (and muttering about how maybe he's a war criminal now, but this is a state requirement so here goes...), Donald Glover telling Spidey he's doing interrogations wrong, Aunt May being actually funny when she's teasing/scolding Peter, Ned panicking that his hat isn't working, the Training Wheels and Baby Monitor Protocols, Zendaya stealing every scene she's in, Chris Evans stealing every scene he's in, and Tom Holland himself finally giving us a really funny Spider-Man.
And Peter's fifteen! I believed he was a kid. I loved his awkwardness and thoughtless energy in that "interrogation" scene, actually misjudging a swinging arc and going SPLAT, not being magically blasé about heights, his "but I tried calling you" conversation with Stark.
I was talking to my kids a little on the way to the theater about how Spidey has been portrayed in the comics and when they asked about his Spider-Sense I happened to mention the convention of showing Peter Parker's face half-covered with a Spidey mask, so I was super pleased to see an homage to that. Also the Vulture ruffle on Keaton's coat was so good.
posted by straight at 11:55 PM on July 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
The biggest problem, of course, is retconning Parker into a Stark protégé, with most plot points coming from that.
But from the very beginning, Spider-Man has been situated in the Marvel Universe and partly defined in contrast with other super-heroes. In Amazing Spider-Man #1, he barges into Fantastic Four headquarters (Reed Richards filled the role of prominent unmasked superhero inventor/statesman in the comics that Stark does in the movies -- any character with a costume tuned to her own powers was using Reed's "unstable molecules"), kinda makes a fool of himself getting into a brawl, and leaves munching sour grapes about how he didn't wanna be a member of the FF anyways.
The fact that we now have a big crazy Marvel Cinematic Universe where you don't have to apologize for using generous handfulls of weird stuff from the toybox is the reason we can have nice things like Black Panther and Guardians of the Galaxy.
And really Peter runs on his own agency for most of the movie, whether he's trying to be a hero while Stark ignores him, hacking Stark's suit to unlock the dangerous stuff, or persisting on his own after Stark fires him.
posted by straight at 12:07 AM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
But from the very beginning, Spider-Man has been situated in the Marvel Universe and partly defined in contrast with other super-heroes. In Amazing Spider-Man #1, he barges into Fantastic Four headquarters (Reed Richards filled the role of prominent unmasked superhero inventor/statesman in the comics that Stark does in the movies -- any character with a costume tuned to her own powers was using Reed's "unstable molecules"), kinda makes a fool of himself getting into a brawl, and leaves munching sour grapes about how he didn't wanna be a member of the FF anyways.
The fact that we now have a big crazy Marvel Cinematic Universe where you don't have to apologize for using generous handfulls of weird stuff from the toybox is the reason we can have nice things like Black Panther and Guardians of the Galaxy.
And really Peter runs on his own agency for most of the movie, whether he's trying to be a hero while Stark ignores him, hacking Stark's suit to unlock the dangerous stuff, or persisting on his own after Stark fires him.
posted by straight at 12:07 AM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The CGI was really convincing in this movie compared to Raimi's, it's 15 years worth of technological advancement. I recently went back and watched scenes from SM1 and 2 and the CG was so much more obvious than this one.
To me, the fidelity of the CG is way less important than what you do with it, and I gotta agree with mediareport that there's nothing in this movie remotely as well choreographed and thrilling as the fight scenes in SM2. They are still some of the best translations of comic book superhero action to live action film.
But I liked that the final Spidey/Vulture fight was fairly brief, and that Peter doesn't really defeat Toomes. His victory is foiling the heist and then simply surviving (and preventing the plane from crashing into the middle of the city). And Toomes, when given the choice, chooses to try salvaging things by making off with at least one crate of tech instead of hanging around to kill Peter when he had the chance. And Peter doesn't have to make a choice; he's the sort of person who is instantly horrified that Toomes is in danger and rushes into the fire to save him.
posted by straight at 12:29 AM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
To me, the fidelity of the CG is way less important than what you do with it, and I gotta agree with mediareport that there's nothing in this movie remotely as well choreographed and thrilling as the fight scenes in SM2. They are still some of the best translations of comic book superhero action to live action film.
But I liked that the final Spidey/Vulture fight was fairly brief, and that Peter doesn't really defeat Toomes. His victory is foiling the heist and then simply surviving (and preventing the plane from crashing into the middle of the city). And Toomes, when given the choice, chooses to try salvaging things by making off with at least one crate of tech instead of hanging around to kill Peter when he had the chance. And Peter doesn't have to make a choice; he's the sort of person who is instantly horrified that Toomes is in danger and rushes into the fire to save him.
posted by straight at 12:29 AM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I ended up really loving Liz Allen for how, when she tells stories in five years about that one Worst High School Semester Of Her Life, she's barely going to remember Peter Parker's name. He's a funny-in-retrospect footnote, a blip on the radar of her life.
Liz's Priority Levels:
"My dad is a criminal>>>>>I almost died>>>>>I had to move away from all my friends>>>>>academic decathlon>>>>>INFINITY>>>>> remember that guy who totally ditched me at senior prom? Hahaha"
For a teenager, all of these big life things seem (and are!) So Hugely Important, until something more important puts them in perspective.
In that respect Liz's story makes a fantastic thematic reflection of Peter's growth over the course of the story, in ways that rather unusually have nothing to do with her being a girl or a love interest. Joining the Avengers to go on big exciting adventures with Tony Stark was So Hugely Important to Peter. But taking care of his friends, family, and home as a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man was ultimately more important.
Also I love that Liz secretly read coaching books and watched TED talks to be a better team coach. That's my nerd girl.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:50 AM on July 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Liz's Priority Levels:
"My dad is a criminal>>>>>I almost died>>>>>I had to move away from all my friends>>>>>academic decathlon>>>>>INFINITY>>>>> remember that guy who totally ditched me at senior prom? Hahaha"
For a teenager, all of these big life things seem (and are!) So Hugely Important, until something more important puts them in perspective.
In that respect Liz's story makes a fantastic thematic reflection of Peter's growth over the course of the story, in ways that rather unusually have nothing to do with her being a girl or a love interest. Joining the Avengers to go on big exciting adventures with Tony Stark was So Hugely Important to Peter. But taking care of his friends, family, and home as a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man was ultimately more important.
Also I love that Liz secretly read coaching books and watched TED talks to be a better team coach. That's my nerd girl.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:50 AM on July 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think "I was in the Washington Monument elevator when A BOMB WENT OFF and SPIDER-MAN SAVED MY LIFE" might actually be a little higher on her list of notable events, but you're absolutely right about Parker being just an amusing anecdote whenever the topic of high school proms comes up.
posted by straight at 10:00 AM on July 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 10:00 AM on July 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was Homecoming! It's right in the title! :P
posted by ODiV at 10:15 AM on July 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 10:15 AM on July 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
In that respect Liz's story makes a fantastic thematic reflection of Peter's growth over the course of the story,
Hmm, a thematic reflection? So, almost like an antagonist? Maybe it's possible that Liz becomes like a Harry Osborne and swears revenge on Spider-man/Parker for what he's done. Liz Allan did marry Harry Osborne at one point in the main Marvel Universe after all.
posted by FJT at 1:27 PM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hmm, a thematic reflection? So, almost like an antagonist? Maybe it's possible that Liz becomes like a Harry Osborne and swears revenge on Spider-man/Parker for what he's done. Liz Allan did marry Harry Osborne at one point in the main Marvel Universe after all.
posted by FJT at 1:27 PM on July 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
In retrospect, we should have known that Liz's father was a villain because of the beautiful modernist home she lives in. It never fails. In movies, only villains live in modernist homes.
posted by chrchr at 2:35 PM on July 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 2:35 PM on July 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
that's not true, what about bruce wayne in batman v superman—
actually, you may have a point
posted by entropicamericana at 4:55 PM on July 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
actually, you may have a point
posted by entropicamericana at 4:55 PM on July 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Saw it last night, loved it. Me and my 9yo also felt it had a strong Kamala Khan feel, which is a definite plus.
posted by signal at 7:05 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by signal at 7:05 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Me and my 9yo also felt it had a strong Kamala Khan feel, which is a definite plus.
That's high praise for this movie given how much Ms. Marvel has been a "Hey, remember what made Spider-Man so great?" comic.
posted by straight at 8:33 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's high praise for this movie given how much Ms. Marvel has been a "Hey, remember what made Spider-Man so great?" comic.
posted by straight at 8:33 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
(also how great is it to hear of kids praising Spider-Man for being like Kamala Khan?)
posted by straight at 9:39 AM on July 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 9:39 AM on July 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I liked this A LOT but partly cause I predicted some of it in a fic in 08.
I am the lathe of heaven
posted by The Whelk at 11:46 PM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am the lathe of heaven
posted by The Whelk at 11:46 PM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
If Heaven looks like my multiplex then send me to the bad place
posted by phearlez at 9:03 AM on July 19, 2017
posted by phearlez at 9:03 AM on July 19, 2017
Late to the party, just saw it. I really enjoyed it. I thought the third act punch fest would be long and tiresome, but I thought it was an OK move to have it be less about punching and more about the plane crash and rescuing Vulture.
Years ago I worked on a show with an actor named Ned Bellamy, I always thought he would make a great Vulture (especially if they had stuck more to to his look in the comic books). Keaton was awesome though, and I liked how his hair was disheveled and floofy when he took his helmet off. I don't remember, was there a Birdman reference in this move?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:50 PM on August 16, 2017
Years ago I worked on a show with an actor named Ned Bellamy, I always thought he would make a great Vulture (especially if they had stuck more to to his look in the comic books). Keaton was awesome though, and I liked how his hair was disheveled and floofy when he took his helmet off. I don't remember, was there a Birdman reference in this move?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:50 PM on August 16, 2017
Finally got around to seeing this last week. I think part of my reluctance was just feeling like I didn't need to see the umpteenth Spiderman adaptation, and wishing Marvel had gone with another lesser-known superhero instead. But I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't rehash the whole origin story, and that's one advantage of doing Spiderman--you don't need to explain what his powers are or how he got him, you can just get on with the plot.
What I enjoyed most were the struggles with technology. This is the first superhero movie I've seen that has a scene where both the hero and the main villain are simultaneously coaxing their technology to work. And as someone who is overwhelmed by choices with my tech at home, and who struggles mightily with idiotic default settings on my tech at work, I loved Peter fighting with the suit.
I liked the acknowledgment that superpowered does not equal super-omniscient, which leads to screw-ups like trying to stop the guy from breaking into his own car. That, and the tech struggles, and the Vulture being way more nuanced than Marvel villains usually are, made this movie seem way more real than I'd expect.
Also loved Zendaya/MJ. Please let her be in the sequels. She's so much fun.
posted by creepygirl at 2:48 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
What I enjoyed most were the struggles with technology. This is the first superhero movie I've seen that has a scene where both the hero and the main villain are simultaneously coaxing their technology to work. And as someone who is overwhelmed by choices with my tech at home, and who struggles mightily with idiotic default settings on my tech at work, I loved Peter fighting with the suit.
I liked the acknowledgment that superpowered does not equal super-omniscient, which leads to screw-ups like trying to stop the guy from breaking into his own car. That, and the tech struggles, and the Vulture being way more nuanced than Marvel villains usually are, made this movie seem way more real than I'd expect.
Also loved Zendaya/MJ. Please let her be in the sequels. She's so much fun.
posted by creepygirl at 2:48 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just got back from the theater, utterly loved it. Not sure whether I'm more in love with the cast (Michael Keaton was the best Marvel movie villain since Loki! Somebody finally played Peter Parker right! Favreau's back and he's delightful!) or the script, which somehow managed to pack in great character beats that drove the plot in a really satisfying way and nerd-pleasing comics references.
For my money, it's probably the best straight-up superhero movie the MCU has produced; I liked the first Captain America and Guardians movies better, but CA is a pulp/war/sci-fi thing and Guardians is comedic space opera.
Also, I about lost it when Michael Mando showed up. Not only is Sarah Manning's shitty boyfriend now a supervillain, but there's a running joke in Orphan Black where Mando's character keeps injuring his fingers over and over, so it kind of makes sense that he'd end up with just a pincer.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:01 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
For my money, it's probably the best straight-up superhero movie the MCU has produced; I liked the first Captain America and Guardians movies better, but CA is a pulp/war/sci-fi thing and Guardians is comedic space opera.
Also, I about lost it when Michael Mando showed up. Not only is Sarah Manning's shitty boyfriend now a supervillain, but there's a running joke in Orphan Black where Mando's character keeps injuring his fingers over and over, so it kind of makes sense that he'd end up with just a pincer.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:01 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, not quite a billion worldwide, but a decent showing at $879,742,878 just from the movie.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:45 AM on October 26, 2017
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:45 AM on October 26, 2017
and I never really understood the need to reboot them.
When Marvel was in financial trouble many years ago they went on a flurry of licensing out their properties to different studios. One of the terms of these licenses is that said studios have to actually use the properties because it's in Marvel's print business interest to keep their heroes in the public eye. Taking money from Sony, in this case, wouldn't be a great deal if Sony didn't keep making people interested in Spider-man so they would come buy some comics. And that's a real phenomenon - books usually have a notable sales bump after a release.
Anyway, this is why Amazing Spider-Man 2 was made, no question. ASM had an estimated budget of 230M and grossed 262M in the US. You might keep making action movies with meh domestic numbers if you make it up on international (where action films do well) and secondary property stuff makes you money. But stuff licensed from Marvel means a lot of tie-in is unavailable.
Anyway, this is why Spider-Man kept showing up at the box office even when it seemed like nobody was clamoring and there weren't good scripts/actors/directors/anything behind them. You might even make something you don't release just for the sake of meeting that contractual obligation.
posted by phearlez at 9:50 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
When Marvel was in financial trouble many years ago they went on a flurry of licensing out their properties to different studios. One of the terms of these licenses is that said studios have to actually use the properties because it's in Marvel's print business interest to keep their heroes in the public eye. Taking money from Sony, in this case, wouldn't be a great deal if Sony didn't keep making people interested in Spider-man so they would come buy some comics. And that's a real phenomenon - books usually have a notable sales bump after a release.
Anyway, this is why Amazing Spider-Man 2 was made, no question. ASM had an estimated budget of 230M and grossed 262M in the US. You might keep making action movies with meh domestic numbers if you make it up on international (where action films do well) and secondary property stuff makes you money. But stuff licensed from Marvel means a lot of tie-in is unavailable.
Anyway, this is why Spider-Man kept showing up at the box office even when it seemed like nobody was clamoring and there weren't good scripts/actors/directors/anything behind them. You might even make something you don't release just for the sake of meeting that contractual obligation.
posted by phearlez at 9:50 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ironically, now Marvel would very much appreciate it if Fox, Sony, etc., would stop making movies based on their properties, because the contract says that if the licencee doesn't put something on a screen every X number of years, Marvel gets its film rights back.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:33 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:33 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hah, all my blather and I managed to not make that explicit.
Yeah, and it's why we ended up with this movie. Marvel wants their most iconic hero under their umbrella, but barring that they want him and all his ancillary properties (say, Spider-Gwen and Silk who they couldn't make movies about either IIRC; I'm pretty sure Miles Morales would also be barred even if he was created long after the contracts were inked) out there garnering interest and driving sales. Shitburger movies harming the value of their publications is the worst of all worlds.
Sony on the other hand wants to make movies that make money, and they look at the world through a pretty long time horizon. Making some mediocre junk that breaks even isn't something they want to do but they're no dummies - they know Spider-Man as a brand isn't going anywhere. So if they have to drop some millions now for many more down the road, they'll do it. But Marvel has demonstrated they're prepared to shift their publication business to what's best for them (largely sidelining mutants/X-Men and focusing on Inhumans, all but erasing the Fantastic Four) and their big shared world Juggernaut means the movies increase demand for each other. So they'd rather have it all, but barring that they'll take money from Marvel and give up some of the tie-in stuff they do retain in exchange for a successful movie which can ride those other coat-tails.
The wikipedia writeup on this stuff doesn't talk a lot about the past but it details the deal the studios made with each other (and how fragile it is!) in a pretty good way.
posted by phearlez at 11:45 AM on October 26, 2017
Yeah, and it's why we ended up with this movie. Marvel wants their most iconic hero under their umbrella, but barring that they want him and all his ancillary properties (say, Spider-Gwen and Silk who they couldn't make movies about either IIRC; I'm pretty sure Miles Morales would also be barred even if he was created long after the contracts were inked) out there garnering interest and driving sales. Shitburger movies harming the value of their publications is the worst of all worlds.
Sony on the other hand wants to make movies that make money, and they look at the world through a pretty long time horizon. Making some mediocre junk that breaks even isn't something they want to do but they're no dummies - they know Spider-Man as a brand isn't going anywhere. So if they have to drop some millions now for many more down the road, they'll do it. But Marvel has demonstrated they're prepared to shift their publication business to what's best for them (largely sidelining mutants/X-Men and focusing on Inhumans, all but erasing the Fantastic Four) and their big shared world Juggernaut means the movies increase demand for each other. So they'd rather have it all, but barring that they'll take money from Marvel and give up some of the tie-in stuff they do retain in exchange for a successful movie which can ride those other coat-tails.
The wikipedia writeup on this stuff doesn't talk a lot about the past but it details the deal the studios made with each other (and how fragile it is!) in a pretty good way.
posted by phearlez at 11:45 AM on October 26, 2017
It’s a fun movie. I think probably the best Spider-Man movie. Although his Spidey Senses kind of worked sometimes, but they would have had to do away with half the plot if the worked all the time.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:58 PM on December 10, 2017
posted by P.o.B. at 12:58 PM on December 10, 2017
So Watts, the director, intentionally left out his spidey sense. "The guy in the chair!" was really fun and Ned added a lot to the story. I feel so bad for Liz at the end, especially because Peter acts like such a dick to her. I really enjoyed the father / son relationship between Stark and Parker, and was great to see how that motivated Peter.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:18 AM on December 12, 2017
posted by P.o.B. at 11:18 AM on December 12, 2017
The difficulty with spider-sense is that you can't talk to it. In the comics, Spider-Man basically narrates to himself in thought balloons (or the current trend of narration boxes) the information he gets from his spider-sense.
In general, one of the challenges to making a Spider-Man movie is that he often doesn't have anyone to talk to, except for the villains to whose injuries he's adding insults. I think it was a really good idea for the movie to just say, "Screw it. This version of Spidey has an AI in his suit and a Guy in a Chair to talk to." Both of which he can easily lose contact with as needed by the plot.
posted by straight at 3:37 PM on December 12, 2017
In general, one of the challenges to making a Spider-Man movie is that he often doesn't have anyone to talk to, except for the villains to whose injuries he's adding insults. I think it was a really good idea for the movie to just say, "Screw it. This version of Spidey has an AI in his suit and a Guy in a Chair to talk to." Both of which he can easily lose contact with as needed by the plot.
posted by straight at 3:37 PM on December 12, 2017
Yeah, I didn't care too much that it wasn't in there, and I (personally) don't need some exposition to let me know what it's all about, but my only problem with it not being there is that to be a bullet dodging Spider-man he kind of needs those powers. But obviously the movie works just fine without them.
posted by P.o.B. at 2:03 PM on December 18, 2017
posted by P.o.B. at 2:03 PM on December 18, 2017
This movie is still great after another viewing. The scene in the cab where Vulture finds out is so perfect, the way Peter is a terrified kid who can't find the right words to lie convincingly. So it would have been totally out of character, but I still really wanted him to say:
"Protect your family? Your business dumping crazy alien weapons out on the street without caring who gets hurt is what almost killed her. And I saved her life, you ungrateful bastard.
"You already have 100x more money than my family ever had. Why don't you walk away and find a job you don't have to be ashamed to tell your daughter about."
Also, much more in-character, when Peter fought the Vulture I wanted him to heckle him about being a bad Falcon rip-off.
posted by straight at 8:03 AM on December 7, 2018
"Protect your family? Your business dumping crazy alien weapons out on the street without caring who gets hurt is what almost killed her. And I saved her life, you ungrateful bastard.
"You already have 100x more money than my family ever had. Why don't you walk away and find a job you don't have to be ashamed to tell your daughter about."
Also, much more in-character, when Peter fought the Vulture I wanted him to heckle him about being a bad Falcon rip-off.
posted by straight at 8:03 AM on December 7, 2018
My roommate was joining in on a podcast series that addresses each of the Marvel movies during the leadup to Endgame, and this was one of the ones he rewatched in our living room (and let me piggyback on watching; I've gotten a crash course in MCU these past couple weeks). I've actually been a good test case because I didn't know jack-all about the comics or any of the backstory, and so that's been a good yardstick for "if EC could follow it, then it was clear to everyone".
It hit me right in my raised-on-John-Hughes nostalgia bone, and by far my favorite line was when a teacher caught Ned in the computer lab trying to assist Peter, and when they asked what he was doing he said "Uh, I'm...looking at...porn?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on April 23, 2019
It hit me right in my raised-on-John-Hughes nostalgia bone, and by far my favorite line was when a teacher caught Ned in the computer lab trying to assist Peter, and when they asked what he was doing he said "Uh, I'm...looking at...porn?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on April 23, 2019
I finally caught up with this today since I'm going to see Endgame tonight it was OK. Just OK. I probably shouldn't have waited until after I'd seen Spiderverse to see this since it's doesn't come anywhere close to that movie's brilliance. Holland is great and Keaton is as good as always but the whole thing seemed so slow and badly paced. I was all ready for it to be over at the end of the ferry boat fight and then there was another (boring and badly lit) action set-piece after that. They could have cut about thirty minutes of bloat out of the movie and not missed much.
The whole subplot of Stark and Happy ignoring him got pretty annoying after a while too. I wish that they had gotten rid of the whole connection to the Avengers stuff and just let Spider-man have a movie of his own. Glad that I didn't see this in the theater.
posted by octothorpe at 12:18 PM on May 4, 2019
The whole subplot of Stark and Happy ignoring him got pretty annoying after a while too. I wish that they had gotten rid of the whole connection to the Avengers stuff and just let Spider-man have a movie of his own. Glad that I didn't see this in the theater.
posted by octothorpe at 12:18 PM on May 4, 2019
I finally bit the bullet and bought this from Amazon ("Boo! Hiss!") Prime. What a lovely movie!
I mean, everyone else got all the things that were great about it - there's a fractal loveliness, where every small thing you look at is charming.
What I particularly like is that after seeing Spiderverse I was worried that there would be some kind of friction between the two movies. No, there isn't. They're both fantastic in their own way, and if anything amplify each other.
Incidentally, I think Peter Parker is the next-generation Steve Rogers (rather than the next-generation Iron Man, which is referenced in the new trailer) - the guy who's just fundamentally decent.
posted by Grangousier at 3:55 PM on May 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
I mean, everyone else got all the things that were great about it - there's a fractal loveliness, where every small thing you look at is charming.
What I particularly like is that after seeing Spiderverse I was worried that there would be some kind of friction between the two movies. No, there isn't. They're both fantastic in their own way, and if anything amplify each other.
Incidentally, I think Peter Parker is the next-generation Steve Rogers (rather than the next-generation Iron Man, which is referenced in the new trailer) - the guy who's just fundamentally decent.
posted by Grangousier at 3:55 PM on May 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Finally saw this too. I'd heard it was as good as Spiderverse and I was reluctant to believe it, because people are often wrong, and I didn't like the glimpse of Spidey that showed up in Civil War. It's so good though, it seems incredible to be watching non-sucky Spider-Man movies.
The fight scene on the plane was kinda illegible, and none of the action was great in this, but everything else made up for it. It did somehow feel like they did so much exactly right, good pacing, the correct level of humor and seriousness, the timing of most everything. A small example not in comments above: like, Parker changing into his spider-suit in the alleyway and the kid coming out of the stall to wash his hands are the same sort of joke but they were played dry and natural and just long enough. It felt good to see a movie with a good comedic touch. (I just looked up the director and Jon Watts started off doing a bunch of stuff for the Onion, okay, I guess so.)
posted by fleacircus at 12:36 AM on June 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
The fight scene on the plane was kinda illegible, and none of the action was great in this, but everything else made up for it. It did somehow feel like they did so much exactly right, good pacing, the correct level of humor and seriousness, the timing of most everything. A small example not in comments above: like, Parker changing into his spider-suit in the alleyway and the kid coming out of the stall to wash his hands are the same sort of joke but they were played dry and natural and just long enough. It felt good to see a movie with a good comedic touch. (I just looked up the director and Jon Watts started off doing a bunch of stuff for the Onion, okay, I guess so.)
posted by fleacircus at 12:36 AM on June 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
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Without spoilers, I thought the movie hit the right notes and was probably the most sensible villain backstory in a superhero movie in a long time. Also I got lectured by my 16 year-old about who Zendaya is. My teenager thought it was one of the better high school movie portrayals she'd seen.
There seemed to be a lot of short cameos by various actors who presumably needed a little spending money, but it didn't seem too gratuitous.
I'm completely over third act punch-fests but at least this one seemed mercifully short compared to Wonder Woman.
posted by GuyZero at 9:40 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]