The Good Place: Rhonda, Diana, Jake, and Trent

January 18, 2018 6:39 PM - Season 2, Episode 10

Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani, Janet and Jason go to a place with potentially lasting implications.
posted by jeather (90 comments total)

MICHAEL!

Otherwise best moment: Pirates of the Caribbean 6. Now playing everywhere, forever.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:10 PM on January 18, 2018 [12 favorites]

See I want to be laughing about the perfection of “JORTLES!” and the Molotov and just how well the plot is constructed but then Michael had to go and give me the feels. The fat dink.
posted by rewil at 7:36 PM on January 18, 2018 [25 favorites]

On January 14th I tweeted:

I dreamed last night making a tweet about Jake Jortles of the Jacksonville Jaguars but couldn’t come up with anything for Ben Roethlisberger so I gave up. Apparently even while sleeping I’m only willing to put in the absolute minimum.

so clearly the idea here is that I'm having premonitions and / or the writing staff is reading my dreams.

OR it's a fairly common joke but c'mon get real they're clearly reading my dreams.
posted by komara at 7:47 PM on January 18, 2018 [2 favorites]

I squealed when Dax Shepherd came out. That’s Kristen Bell’s husband!!!

And I screamed at, “I’m a nasty bitch”.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:01 PM on January 18, 2018 [14 favorites]

“There’s a reason that I assumed the form of a 45-year-old man: I only fail up.”

Toxic masculinity in demon form!
posted by gladly at 8:14 PM on January 18, 2018 [26 favorites]

There are ad kiosks in the bad place! And they advertise pitchforks!

"It makes you smell the way Transformers movies make you feel"

"Bagels from Arkansas...egg salad from a hospital vending machine in Azerbaijan"

The sound of wind chimes in the background of listening to Mindy's house

Chekhov's Molotov cocktail accurately describes this episode, and is a really fun phrase to say out loud

I was almost sure Michael set this all up on purpose to betray Eleanor at the end, because I still don't trust him, and then he goes and does a selfless thing like that and wow that took a turn fast.
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 PM on January 18, 2018 [11 favorites]

...and they even placed a smoking demon at the front of the audience, so the lighter would make sense! I noticed her as "that jerk who smokes in enclosed spaces", but it was a perfect setup for Jason!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:33 PM on January 18, 2018 [3 favorites]

Was that a jazz version of “Grandma got run over by a reindeer”?
posted by Gary at 10:49 PM on January 18, 2018 [9 favorites]

Great episode. Seems like they're setting up a "back to hell to save our friend" plot, potentially ultimately enabling them to prove their worthiness for the mediator judge.

In the longer term, I wonder what will be established as a new status quo for season three, however long it lasts until they turn it on its head again. Maybe something where our characters interact with these new "good place" neighborhoods that our four unwittingly beta tested? Or else they all get into the good place, but... they don't fit in, or... something?

I thought today quite a bit about the moral universe the show exists in. In the real good place -- heaven, what have you -- do the people there know about the bad place? Are they told it doesn't exist? Wouldn't the kind of people who got in to heaven, in this universe, be the kind of people who would protest or try to change the eternal torture going on next door if they knew about it?
posted by Rinku at 11:00 PM on January 18, 2018 [3 favorites]

Some of those displays in the museum!
My favorite: "First man to say 'Well, actually...' to a woman"

....................
Great episode. Seems like they're setting up a "back to hell to save our friend" plot, potentially ultimately enabling them to prove their worthiness for the mediator judge.

Don't forget Janet. They made a distinct effort in pointing out she wasn't there with the group at the portal. Maybe she evolves free will and works to save Michael?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:36 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]

There are ad kiosks in the bad place! And they advertise pitchforks!

I really need to watch each episode twice. I always miss these awesome little easter eggs.

"It makes you smell the way Transformers movies make you feel"

I'm so glad they had Eleanor ask Michael why he smelled loud and confusing.
posted by gladly at 6:25 AM on January 19, 2018 [30 favorites]

Hey Michael Schur, thanks for the nut-punch... TO MY HEART.

(If I just keep saying "Ted Danson is the best actor on television" over and over, eventually they'll have to give him an Emmy, right? I'm pretty sure that's how it works.)
posted by tzikeh at 6:33 AM on January 19, 2018 [8 favorites]

This is really minor but this is actually episode ten and not episode eleven. I only mention it because I thought I missed one!
posted by Tevin at 6:44 AM on January 19, 2018

Rinku: I thought today quite a bit about the moral universe the show exists in. In the real good place -- heaven, what have you -- do the people there know about the bad place? Are they told it doesn't exist?

If we go by Michael's statement (can't remember which episode) that the best lies are the ones that hew closest to the truth, then people in a real Good Place don't know for sure that there is a Bad Place, thought they might suspect. Remember Michael's "Welcome to The Good Place" orientation speech in the pilot? He says something like, "all those people who you don't see here -- don't worrying about them." So I assume that's a standard statement made in a Good Place neighborhood orientation.

Wouldn't the kind of people who got in to heaven, in this universe, be the kind of people who would protest or try to change the eternal torture going on next door if they knew about it?

Probably not if they all thought The Bad Place was for the people we generally agree would end up in The Bad Place (Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, all the Big Names like Hitler, etc.)
posted by tzikeh at 6:47 AM on January 19, 2018 [3 favorites]

The wait for next week's episode makes me feel like I'm in The Bad Place.
posted by emkelley at 6:47 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]

ARGH not "nut punch" it was "ball tap"
posted by tzikeh at 7:06 AM on January 19, 2018

Tevin: This is really minor but this is actually episode ten and not episode eleven. I only mention it because I thought I missed one!

Nope, this is episode 11 as per epguides.com, which gets its information from the network. Part 1 and Part 2 of the premiere ran on the same night, but they were coded as S2E01 and S2E02.
posted by tzikeh at 7:12 AM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]

I really believe The Guy Who Started #NotAllMen deserves a place of distinction in the Museum of Human Misery's Hall of Low Grade Crappiness. Though, perhaps he can be found in the wing that is solely dedicated to Twitter.

This episode was off the charts awesome. Can't wait to rewatch it a dozen more times.
posted by pjsky at 7:13 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]

I missed a lot of the jokes -- I didn't hear the Jortles! yell with the molotov cocktail (which I should have predicted but did not) but I did hear portals. Time to watch 500 more times while I wait disconsolately for the next episode. And then ANOTHER week wait. (And then months and months but that is easier in a way.)

This is really minor but this is actually episode ten and not episode eleven. I only mention it because I thought I missed one!

I even messaged the mods because for a while we had two episode fives and when cortex asked the official numbering, I realised that different websites (futoncritic/epguides vs imdb, ex) use different numberings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by jeather at 7:17 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]

I'd go with IMDB, but our numbering is actually off. Dance Dance Resolution is episode 2 and premiered the same night as episode 1. We had different posts for them. Episode 5 was the one that was repeated and then the wrong numbering stuck. I guess when Cortex fixed it he bumped everything up because someone told him the first post contains both episode 1 and 2, but it does not.
posted by numaner at 8:14 AM on January 19, 2018

Pirates of the Caribbean 6. Now playing everywhere, forever.
- not just, it's Pirates of the Caribbean 6: The Haunted Crow's Nest or something, who gives a crap.

other stuff that haven't been mentioned here:
- all trains today are delayed by 3 hours, just like they are every day.
- soul food from Maine!
- I love that Jason love all the things that the Bad Place considers bad.
- "Trent" left decapitations 800 years ago, about the same amount of reboots
- I wonder what that one demon meant by... grabbing them one from her... dump.
- "I'm a naughty bitch" is probably also what Kevin privately says to Captain Holt.
- "You're wearing glasses now! Help me!"
- I guess those moral particularism homework essay props are cut out :(
- I'd like to think when Dax says to Kristen "Smash you later", he meant it IRL.
- "Faaarts"
- DO SOME COKE OFF MY BUTT
- My wind chimes like you!
- Lance looks like a cross between Jabba the Hutt and the Sarlac pit.
- "sick taco bell ref!"
- "ugly necks"
- I have not heard of Top Hatter Bourbon, I wonder if that's real, and if it is, does it taste as good as it burns? (alas, a quick googling suggest it's fake)
posted by numaner at 8:31 AM on January 19, 2018 [16 favorites]

I assume there's not another twist but the only thing that happened when they caught Michael at the end was him saying "hiya boss" or something? The meeting seemed pretty straightforward and he did seem to sneak out of that but I wonder if there is something else going on although I'm not sure what it would be. Maybe purgatory where they improve as people until they are ready for the real Good Place? But then not sure about Mindy St. Claire.

Anyway I love this show, I also screamed when Dax Shepherd showed up, and I could not handle Tahani's American character, OMG.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:35 AM on January 19, 2018 [6 favorites]

- I wonder what that one demon meant by... grabbing them one from her... dump.

She was offering to retrieve some of her feces and return them for Tahani.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:36 AM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]

Dance Dance Resolution is episode 2 and premiered the same night as episode 1.

Nope, episodes 1-2 of this season are Everything Is Great! parts 1 and 2 (the first day in v2 from the POV of each of the four humans -- there were two chapter titles there), and Dance Dance Resolution (800 different versions) aired a week later.

This last episode had a "chapter 24" card.
posted by jeather at 8:37 AM on January 19, 2018

"Trent" left decapitations 800 years ago, about the same amount of reboots

Maybe this is the twist for Season 2- they're all really demons! This explains why they were each so good at fitting in at the hellion cocktail party.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:03 AM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]

The twist is that there is no twist.
posted by Pendragon at 9:10 AM on January 19, 2018

It's always worth watching at least once with closed-captioning to catch everything.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:13 AM on January 19, 2018 [4 favorites]

"I'm telling you, Molotov cocktails work. Any time I had a problem, and I threw a Molotov cocktail, boom! Right away, I had a differentproblem."
posted by Karmakaze at 10:00 AM on January 19, 2018 [59 favorites]

I was surprised it kept the demons away- don't they love fire? Can't they just walk right through it? Or would it hurt their human suits?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:36 AM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]

Or would it hurt their human suits?

Possibly. Speaking of which, why would the demons wear human suits in hell? I was under the impression that the suits were just worn to make The Good Place believable.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:53 AM on January 19, 2018

I believe it was said that the human suits are actually worn to help them devise effective ways to torture actual humans.
posted by Superplin at 11:12 AM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]

Superplin has it.
posted by tzikeh at 11:32 AM on January 19, 2018

So far, I think the only things Janet hasn't objected to being called are a straight-up hottie and luggage.

When they started going through the Hall of Low-Grade Crappiness, I was half expecting Eleanor to already be there.

"It's remarkable."
posted by ckape at 12:55 PM on January 19, 2018 [7 favorites]

jason's effortless ridiculousness saving the day shouldn't work so well but IT DID IT WORKED SO WELL I AM DELIGHT
posted by poffin boffin at 12:59 PM on January 19, 2018 [23 favorites]

I am having a hard time finding something that I thought should be immediately available all over the internet:
a gif of Janet saying "faaarts!"

My idea of what will happen next is that the cockroaches will all come back for Michael [who I still believe is the one really being tortured here], and that will be the first ACTUAL unexpected thing to happen in Shawn's plan.

Or so we will think, etc, ad infinitum.

I hope the actual end goal is either a reform or a reveal of the Bad Place MO towards rehabilitation instead of punishment. 4 successful test cases [or 1, if the real test is Michael] could be enough.
posted by Acari at 3:34 PM on January 19, 2018 [1 favorite]

So, I've been wondering if there's something going on with Vicky, since she's the only person added after the first run went off the rails that's stuck with the neighborhood. It could easily be nothing but after the other curveballs the show has thrown out I'm a bit suspicious.
posted by ckape at 5:22 PM on January 19, 2018

I've long thought that Ted Danson must take part of his compensation in dapper clothing, but this episode really stood out. That was a beautiful coat.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:42 PM on January 19, 2018 [5 favorites]

This episode was delightful.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:22 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]

After all of the "not a robot," "not a woman," "not a girl" we finally have Janet saying what she is: "I'm luggage". It's one of the weirder things to agree with, but I like it.
posted by Margalo Epps at 7:13 PM on January 19, 2018 [23 favorites]

I’m still laughing about piece of butt.

And absolutely everything Tahani said this week.

And Michael smelling loud and confusing.

I’m a little baffled by the neutral zone. Wouldn’t that be at/near Mindy’s house?
posted by mochapickle at 7:38 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]

I do have one issue with this episode: PBR is a good place beverage.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:59 PM on January 19, 2018 [2 favorites]

I’m a little baffled by the neutral zone. Wouldn’t that be at/near Mindy’s house?

No, that's the Medium Place! Medium and neutral aren't necessarily anywhere near one another; just ask Switzerland.
posted by redfoxtail at 8:14 PM on January 19, 2018 [11 favorites]

I wonder if they mistook Chidi for Trent because the randomly assigned human suits are based on real humans, or just because people in the Bad Place are by definition racist and think all young black men look alike. We've already established that they're brutally misogynist.
posted by thesmallmachine at 10:08 PM on January 19, 2018 [13 favorites]

What if ... The entire crew Jason, Ellen, Chidi Tahini are really all demons who have been wholesale brainwashed into thinking that they are humans (or had a real example humans memories/consciousness downloaded into thier bodies).??

The audience has been told time and time again that secondary to actual torture of human beings is finding better ways to torture human beings.

What better way to find out how humans think than to Manchurian Candidate some demons?

I think that this is what the hearing with the Judge will reveal.

I mean I'd prefer it if the judge gives them the option to return to earth and live out a different life and 'earn' thier way into heaven on the merit of that life, but this show never does anything I expect so although I wish for it, I dont expect it to actually happen.
posted by Faintdreams at 2:43 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]

May I drop in my guess that the judge's name is Doug Forcett?

(He has to turn up some time. He's Chekov's stoner.)
posted by Grangousier at 3:09 AM on January 20, 2018 [21 favorites]

Once again, they burn up an entire season's worth of plot setup in one episode.
posted by whuppy at 3:35 AM on January 20, 2018 [5 favorites]

From last year, still true:

‘The Good Place’ Is The One Sitcom You NEED To Go Into Spoiler-Free Before Streaming [for the first time] - Josh Sorokach, Decider
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:07 AM on January 20, 2018

NBC’s ‘The Good Place’ teased Jacksonville, Jaguars for 2 years. What happens now that team is good? - Matt Soergel, Florida Times-Union

Good Place writers started work on season 3 this week.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:10 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]

I thought the trolley problem explanation was a bit long in the moment of panic, but...good job, Michael.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:23 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]

The humans as Manchurian candidate demons could be cool, if only to get to see all the actors in demon mode. I love D'Arcy Carden as Bad Janet, so I assume Demon Everyone would be great.

I hope at the very least we get to meet "Trent" so that we get to see William Jackson Harper as the kind of demon who'd be bros with Demon Dax Sheperd.

I loved the Museum of Human Misery so much. Yay, Baltimore is the site of the first human to floss in an open plan office! I am so proud/repulsed.

And Manny Jacinto was my favorite this episode, which is a hard choice. But his delivery of "I'll have eggs" after learning that the IHOP in the judge's zone has pancakes that eat you was brilliant. As was his delivery of the line about how every time he's thrown a malatov cocktail, boom, he's had a different problem.

Oh, I love this show.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:37 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]

American Tahani is a treat.
posted by Monochrome at 8:57 AM on January 20, 2018 [14 favorites]

Oh, cursing, how I've missed you.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:05 AM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]

Also, Janet watching Jason figure out pocket squares was so sweet and so sad.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:14 AM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]

This is basically the opposite of his first attempt to solve the trolley problem.
posted by ckape at 4:03 PM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]

Have we already talked about Manny Jacinto visiting a Jags game?

I'm totally pulling for a Blake Bortles cameo where he's in the Good Place for, like, rescuing 12,000 rabbits from captivity or something.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:21 PM on January 20, 2018 [6 favorites]

There's a lot of sudden Jags fans in my circle of friends (including me) fueled equally by a love of this show and the fact that they're playing the Pats.

I'm in the camp that says the crew is going back to rescue Michael, which will in part demonstrate their worthiness to be in The Good Place.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:52 PM on January 20, 2018

How The Good Place’s Jameela Jamil Mastered Her American Accent - Devon Ivie, Vulture
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:16 PM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]

Such a good episode. (Also, trying to figure out where I can find Eleanor’s glasses!)
posted by Swisstine at 10:56 PM on January 20, 2018

Eleanor is falling for goofy Tahani

And now Chidi is falling for doing-reading-on-her-own-time Eleanor

They’re gonna set up and then resolve this triangle in like...an episode. And it will be brilliant.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:12 AM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]

I wonder if they mistook Chidi for Trent because the randomly assigned human suits are based on real humans, or just because people in the Bad Place are by definition racist and think all young black men look alike.

Yeah, that stuck out to me also; it really felt like a possible signal that we've just meta'd the bad place strategy, though it seems like there've been enough conversations between Michael and Shawn with no humans present to make that a tough sell. So thinking about it a bit further, here's what I came up with: if they're rolling this program out on a larger scale, some quick googling about the size of the first neighborhood would require a ratio of demons to humans around 319:4 (counting Michael on the demon side of the ledger), so call it 80 demons per human in the Bad Place even before you take management and other non-customer-facing-roles into account. Most of us have stories about doppelgangers here on Earth, so at a population of about ~7B mistaken identity is unusual enough to be noticeable, but not so much as to be suspicious. Given that there are about 15 dead people for every one person currently living, and finally given that many more people end up in the Bad Place than the Good Place, we're looking at a MUCH larger population built mostly around the same basic human features (when the demons are wearing their human suits, of course). It's probably not that unusual to see look-a-likes among both the demons and the damned.

Basically it all makes sense if you whip up a Bad Place version of the Drake Equation.
posted by solotoro at 7:57 AM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]

Michael can flick away the entire neighborhood into magic pixeldust in half a second. Who's to say this isn't all happening in the blink of an eye, making demon staffing issues so much less complex? Michael says it's been 300 years, but Michael says a lot of things in the name of puppetry.

Also, on second watch, those Thumbs Down pins caught my eye. I will be so happy if their ticket to somewhere else is simply a matter of turning the pins to Thumbs Up!
posted by mochapickle at 8:02 AM on January 21, 2018 [5 favorites]

This forking show made me care about a football game
posted by zachlipton at 4:39 PM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]

Literally the bad place team won

Yet another thing wrong with football
posted by schadenfrau at 4:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]

I would very much like some Good Place merch, because I would buy the thumbs-down pin in a New York minute.

jenfullmoon: I thought the trolley problem explanation was a bit long in the moment of panic, but...good job, Michael

That bit stuck out for me too -- trust your audience, writers! You don't need to completely re-explain the Trolley Problem! Bad Exposition taking up precious seconds of Michael sacrificing himself and the dawning realization/horror from Eleanor is INEXCUSABLE. Really, all the writers had to do after "Hey guess what: I solved the Trolley Problem" would be to have Michael say something like "The only options offered in the Trolley Problem are kill one person or kill five people. But there's a third option." And then have him put the pin on Eleanor as he says "sacrifice yourself." Soooo much rehashing made the scene less urgent and powerful--it was great, don't get me wrong, but the exposition dump was unfortunate in such a nigh-perfect episode.

But re: moment of panic, I agree that Michael was panicking to get them all into the swirly vault portal, but the second he turned around and saw Shawn and the others coming, the panic disappeared as he realized what he had to do. There's that moment of the realization of an inevitability where everything becomes calm. You can actually watch it happen in Danson's face.

(Yes, I am clearly an over-invested Danson stan. Fight me.)
posted by tzikeh at 4:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [12 favorites]

I think the demons mistaking Chidi was 100% about white assholes thinking all black dudes look alike. It also dawned on me upon re-watch that people in The Bad Place are all dressed like they're from the 1950s because it's an era where people in power were totally oblivious to the suffering those who weren't like them.
posted by dry white toast at 7:34 PM on January 21, 2018 [15 favorites]

There is Good Place merch! No thumbs-down pins, but a variety of fork, bench, and bullshirt puns.
posted by zachlipton at 8:53 PM on January 21, 2018 [4 favorites]

I wonder if those thumbs down pins are custom made for the show, or are off the shelf.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:19 PM on January 21, 2018

Hasn't that specific drawing of a thumbs down shown up elsewhere in the Bad Place?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:18 AM on January 22, 2018

I have a theory. Maybe I have been watching too much Black Mirror, but I think the Bad Place now is more of a purgatory/holding place for people after they die. Michael wasn't lying that only a very select few immediately go to the Good Place after they die because they were so gosh darn perfect on earth. Everyone else has to go through their own purgatory and proving themselves to be better people than they were when they died to get into the Good Place. So Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani. and Jason are slowly earning points for their improvements and navigating their current situations and being supportive of one another. My guess is at the end of the show - we will be told it was all an elaborate ruse to guide them to their best selves - maybe Michael is in on it, maybe he isn't and is improving too - i haven't thought it out that far - but basically, they won't get into the good place until they are ready, and every plan and attempt to be better gets them closer to being ready.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 11:19 AM on January 22, 2018 [4 favorites]

Hasn't that specific drawing of a thumbs down shown up elsewhere in the Bad Place?

It was the logo on the podium during the roast, at least.

Did a quick look through Etsy, no knock-offs spotted yet. Though there are plenty of "Ya basic" mugs.
posted by rewil at 11:46 AM on January 22, 2018

I have a theory. Maybe I have been watching too much Black Mirror, but I think the Bad Place now is more of a purgatory/holding place for people after they die.

My theory is that this is not currently true, but through the actions of Team Cockroach, it's going to be. Vive la afterlife révolution!
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:22 PM on January 22, 2018 [11 favorites]

My theory is that Eleanor is the real Michael, and Michael has been the Eleanor all along.

and that Tahani and Chidi and Jason are just some lovable dolts caught in the crossfire.
posted by komara at 1:57 PM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]

god if jason is like "let's just turn the pins upside down" and it works i will ascend to a higher plane of existence and like bone a tesseract or something
posted by poffin boffin at 2:03 PM on January 22, 2018 [30 favorites]

> My theory is that Eleanor is the real Michael, and Michael has been the Eleanor all along.

that actually doesn't read good when outside my brain so I'll use different words: I would not be surprised if this show about redemption and changing yourself is not about our girl Eleanor but instead about Michael changing (as we've seen so far) but in reality while Shawn may be his boss, "Eleanor" is an even higher power.

I dunno, it makes sense when it's late and I've been drinking. I haven't applied that idea with any sort of critical eye when I'm watching the show. Maybe I'm just keying off of general star power in the casting. Who knows?
posted by komara at 2:09 PM on January 22, 2018

My theory is that Eleanor is the real Michael, and Michael has been the Eleanor all along

That made total sense, don't worry. I think the show is definitely laying down some stuff to make us think along those lines, but not necessarily forcing themselves to go that way. In season one, Eleanor had most if not all of the character development. But now in season 2, Eleanor, Tahani, Chidi and Jason are all at more or less the same place, while Michael's getting all the character development (yeah, and Janet too). Maybe this means Michael is destined to become a Real Boy at some point, but I think more likely that this is just his season to grow, and maybe next season Tahani or Chidi will get a turn to develop further.

I actually kind of doubt that there will be any further show-altering premise-flipping moments, I don't think it would make sense since they've written themselves into a situation where literally almost anything is possible. Also, after two seasons, if one of the main cast did a heel-turn it would be pretty manipulative. Likewise if they turn out to be God or whatever. Doing it once in the first season when Michael was friendly, but not a friend, was fun. Doing it again would cheapen the drama--all the struggles the group went through would be retroactively meaningless.

I think the show's ultimate eschatology will have to include some sort of path toward growth/redemption. If the final episode of the final season involves just our favorite characters escaping to the good place and leaving everyone else to waste away in hell, that's not a great narrative. I don't think Chidi would even be able to do that if given the opportunity.
posted by skewed at 3:34 PM on January 22, 2018 [6 favorites]

HEY quick question unrelated to episode:

has jason ever canonically eaten a tide pod? like just stuffed one in his mouth after exclaiming OH BOY or I LOVE THESE or something else jasony? i feel like i remember this but it might also be that it's something so jasony to do that i assume it's happened.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:24 PM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]

If the final episode of the final season involves just our favorite characters escaping to the good place and leaving everyone else to waste away in hell, that's not a great narrative.

If some sort of reincarnation comes into play, I place my bet on the final episode with all of them about to be sent back to Earth to try again, vowing to somehow find each other.
posted by mikepop at 8:43 AM on January 23, 2018 [3 favorites]

yesterday's Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comic involving ethical conundrums was heightened greatly by watching this show.
posted by numaner at 9:16 AM on January 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

The last season could be "Two Guys, Two Girls, Janet, a Demon, and a FroYo Place"
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 9:18 AM on January 23, 2018 [6 favorites]

Is the season finale on February 1? I'm hoping not but that's the full episode list as posted on Wikipedia?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:35 AM on January 23, 2018

Is the season finale on February 1? I'm hoping not but that's the full episode list as posted on Wikipedia?

I believe so. The show runners don't like long seasons (leads to filler), so the show has 13 episode seasons as a result.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:18 AM on January 23, 2018

I'm so sad!!!!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:00 PM on January 23, 2018

I don't remember anything about Jason and tide pods, but I'm just going to go ahead and declare right now that for one of the reboots we didn't see, all the restaurants were tide pod places.
posted by ckape at 12:28 PM on January 23, 2018 [5 favorites]

i am sad that he and janet's wedding cake was not decorated as a tide pod, which is what led me to wonder
posted by poffin boffin at 1:17 PM on January 23, 2018

I doubt they'd do the Tide Pod thing since that's so very rooted in January of 2018 and at the rate the world is changing it won't even be recognizable as a joke in a year.

Is there anything else in the show (aside from mocking the Jaguars as a never-win-the-Superbowl team) that's been firmly rooted in the 2017-2018 zeitgeist?
posted by komara at 2:15 PM on January 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

I'm intrigued by the possibilities of Eleanor being the real Michael, or one of the other members of the group (secretly) being an "angel" of sorts (my preference is for it to be Jason, because I think that'd come amusingly full circle to the original Jason-Jianyu mix-up), but I think that's not playing fair with the audience after showing flashbacks to their lives on Earth. Too many layers of identity obfuscation, and then you don't care about the character at all, because who really were they in the first place?

My money is also on reincarnation coming into play. Any other show I'd say that would be the series finale, a hopeful and exciting ending/beginning for our characters. This show? I would not be at all surprised if it happened at the beginning of Season 3, and suddenly we're following the Cockroaches' attempts to find each other in their new lives, maybe with Michael trying to help them from a different plane.
posted by yasaman at 5:13 PM on January 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

I hope at the very least we get to meet "Trent" so that we get to see William Jackson Harper as the kind of demon who'd be bros with Demon Dax Sheperd.

Not exactly what you're looking for but close: There's a pre-HBO episode of High Maintenance ("Geiger") where he plays an intense and insecure dude desperately emulating other jerks around him and thereby becoming an even bigger (survivalist) jerk. He's fantastic.
posted by miles per flower at 8:41 AM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

me: That bit stuck out for me too -- trust your audience, writers! You don't need to completely re-explain the Trolley Problem!

jcreigh: This show is so good, I think we've all sort of forgotten it's on NBC. That whole explanation could easily have been the result of a note from the network.

I have no doubt it was a network note; the exposition was still way more clumsy than any exposition they've had to do in other episodes. I believe that a writers' room packed with this kind of talent could have done better with it.
posted by tzikeh at 12:54 PM on January 25, 2018

I wonder if they mistook Chidi for Trent because the randomly assigned human suits are based on real humans, or just because people in the Bad Place are by definition racist and think all young black men look alike.

Yeah, I kept expecting the real Trent to show up and look nothing like Chidi.

I'm 90% certain that the entire motivation for Tahani's outfit in this episode was "Hey, Jameela looks amazing in a suit, let's come up with an excuse for her to wear one on the show."
posted by tobascodagama at 9:27 AM on October 1, 2018

I wonder what that one demon meant by... grabbing them one from her... dump.

I gather it means when demons "take a dump" they really are taking it, not leaving it.
posted by RobotHero at 4:26 PM on November 23, 2018