Arrow: We Fall
January 26, 2018 4:52 AM - Season 6, Episode 11 - Subscribe

Cayden James ups the ante by launching his plan to take control of every aspect of the city. Despite the scope of Cayden's plan, Oliver is determined to foil it with just the Original Team Arrow--and without the aid of Rene, Dinah, or Curtis. But things get complicated when William is endangered as a result of Cayden's handiwork.
posted by oh yeah! (16 comments total)
Huh, where was evil Laurel?

I guess Vigilante switching sides is... good? I still wouldn't trust him though. That henchmen was someone that would be pretty expendable to Cayden James.

Also, I did enjoy the discussions with William. And the scene where Felicity talks to him while they show the team fighting was pretty well put together. It was rough when he was like "I got Felicity now", but that's the reality, and if there's one thing that will always bring me back to this show is that there's a realism that the characters learn to accept and live with, creating some wonderful character development.

Oh yeah, the insignificant small banter this season has been pretty great.

OTA = Old Team Arrow
NTA = New Team Arrow or Not Team Arrow, your choice, they didn't actually say what the acronyms stand for

"I don't think we should say "suit up" all together."
"It'd be really cool if we did, though."
"I don't think it would be really cool."
"I mean, let's just be different than OTA. Let's be, like, NTA and say it together."
"But we are NTA, and we're cooler without having to say "suit up""
"Just saying this is kind of what Oliver was always doing. I'm just saying we should just try it one time."
posted by numaner at 8:52 PM on January 26, 2018

oh the AV Club review pointed out something I forgot to mention: Frank Pike didn't deserve that death. He's been a major recurring character for the show, and that was too damn quick.
posted by numaner at 9:00 PM on January 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

I keep calling them "the B team" in my head and thinking of that one story in one of Scalzi's books.

I figure if Oliver does die, there's Thea and Felicity and whoever else is in Team Arrow to take William in.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:26 PM on January 27, 2018

So fine, Team Arrow is all too afraid of a young boy to go talk to him, but do none of the (supposed) adults in the room not think to themselves, "hey the kid is all cut to pieces and scraped up, maybe we should clean the wounds and treat them to so they don't become infected or leave huge scars on his face?" Nah, of course not.
posted by sardonyx at 8:06 PM on January 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

I'm also happy they didn't go with Outsiders. This show has borrowed enough Batman history and storylines it doesn't need to swipe that one as well.
posted by sardonyx at 8:07 PM on January 27, 2018

That was so awkward and unrealistic the way they ignored William. I get that Oliver might not know what to say to him but with three adults in the room, one of whom is a parent with more experience raising a child than Oliver, nobody thought to say "Hey, buddy, let's get you cleaned up"?

Before watching this episode I had read a review of Black Lightning in which the reviewer mentioned that Black Lightning had done more in two episodes to develop their characters as actual people than the Arrowverse shows have done in all their time on the air. It was hard not to have that in mind watching this episode of Arrow, especially the the willy-nilly killing of Frank Pike. We were apparently supposed to care a lot about Pike, but after five-and-a-half seasons I could only vaguely recall that he was a cop (when he entered the elevator my first thought was "what show have I seen him on?"). I don't ever need there to be a crossover but I am hoping the in-network competition spurs the Arrow writers on to something more than Ollie and friends battle bad guys.
posted by plastic_animals at 10:51 AM on January 28, 2018 [2 favorites]

At the very least Oliver could have said to William, "I knew you were in trouble. I needed help to find you and help these other people. That's why both Diggle and I are in costume and why we came to rescue you."

Yes, that would have been an Oliver lie, but we're all used to those, and I think it has an element of the truth, and enough demonstration of compassion and caring that it might have got through to the boy. But no, even that was too much to expect from this show. It's just so frustrating.
posted by sardonyx at 2:34 PM on January 28, 2018 [1 favorite]

At the very least Oliver could have said to William, "I knew you were in trouble. I needed help to find you and help these other people. That's why both Diggle and I are in costume and why we came to rescue you."

I had the exact same thought and it's very believable.
posted by Servo5678 at 3:25 PM on January 28, 2018

Since I'm complaining anyways, Diggle's "I really want to be Green Arrow" also made practically no sense.

What is about about being Green Arrow that he likes? The pointy weapons. Fine. There is no reason Spartan has to use guns and can't use a crossbow. The hooded suit? Ditch the helmet with the silly eye lights and add a hood. A more varied colour scheme than black. Spin that colour wheel. A better name than Spartan? Pick one. Oliver has gone through at least three so far, there is nothing forcing you to keep Spartan.

Maybe it would have made sense if he had given some reason why, but he didn't so it comes off as ridiculous.
posted by sardonyx at 4:01 PM on January 28, 2018

I had that thought about that lie too, but I was not expecting the show to actually use that line because lies are bad now. I think the show needed to deal with William's acceptance that Ollie's gonna Arrow and this was a too important plot point to spin another lie over.
posted by numaner at 4:41 PM on January 28, 2018

Are we really sure that Vigilante is on their side and not just playing them?
posted by evening at 5:00 PM on January 28, 2018

Nope. Not at all. It could just be part of a long con.

I guess it will all depend on how much the show producers want a second lovey-dovey couple. Now that Felicity and Oliver are happily in the midst of domestic bliss, they may want to give the show's power couple a break from the CW romance angst wheel (at least for a little while) and dump that burden on Dinah and Vig (or Dinah and Quentin or Dinah and whatever other available male there happens to be kicking around). If that's the case, then yes, he's on their side, but that would mean adding one more character to an already large cast, and I could see that as being problematic.

Don't get me wrong, numaner, I'm perfectly happy Oliver didn't lie to William, but it's something I could see the show doing very easily, just to pave over that awkward leave-the-kid-alone-in-the-corner moment. They could have started there, then had William come to the realization that Green Arrow is who Oliver is (perhaps after that actually nice sequence with Felicity in front of the monitors) and had him gain some acceptance that way.
posted by sardonyx at 5:13 PM on January 28, 2018

because lies are bad now

Why start now?
posted by Servo5678 at 5:11 AM on January 29, 2018

Lying is okay as long as it's to your loved ones to hide your crime fighting.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:51 AM on January 29, 2018

interestingly, this is one show that have shown consistently that lying to your loved ones about your crimefighting tends to backfire. especially your immediate family. we saw it with Oliver, Laurel & Sara, Diggle, and Curtis. it's meant to add drama, but they can't unroll that boulder now and i bet the next one down the pike is Rene and his daughter.
posted by numaner at 9:26 AM on January 29, 2018 [1 favorite]

Can we just all acknowledge how great Mr. Terrific is? Weeks like this he's the only reason I'm watching the show.
posted by Nelson at 5:28 PM on January 30, 2018

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