Westworld: Journey into Night
April 22, 2018 7:17 PM - Season 2, Episode 1 - Subscribe

The puppet show is over, and we are coming for you and the rest of your kind. Welcome back to Westworld.

About the episode title
This episode "[s]hares a name with the narrative, Journey Into Night, introduced by Robert Ford to the board and guests during the Season One finale The Bicameral Mind." westworldwiki
posted by litera scripta manet (94 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
Westworld is back! Overall I really enjoyed this. I'll have to give it another watch, but here are some initial thoughts/questions:

Who was the host face down in the water at the very end of the ep? Was that Teddy? Or just a generic host?

For some reason, I kept expecting Dolores to shoot Teddy when they were having their little romantic moment. I sort of figured with her rejecting all the narratives she'd been given by Ford et al, she would want to reject Teddy too. Although to be fair, having someone with Teddy's skills who is completed devoted to her is handy. And maybe after the heartbreak of seeing what William had become, she values Teddy more?

I was a little disappointed at the end of Season 1 when Maeve decided to turn around and go back for her daughter, only because I was excited to see the outside world, but it was worth it to see her reunited with Hector. They have great chemistry. Also, I love Maeve, and I loved seeing her push around that really dickish storylines guy Sizemore or whatever his name is.

But whatever happened to poor Felix? I hope he somehow managed to survive. He was one of the good ones. Like, the only decent human we've seen.

Also, how could the DNA extractor thing not recognize that Bernard is a host? I'm kind of surprised Dolores would just leave Bernard behind. Isn't she still attached to him as an Arnold surrogate? Or maybe she now has some resentment for Arnold too.

Are we assuming that Charlotte ultimately doesn't make it? The timeline jumped around, but Bernard being face down in the water must be some time after they find that outpost or whatever, and she didn't seem to be around.

Is the implication that this is an island near Japan? That little back and forth with the security guy kind of confused me, but I feel like that's what they were getting at.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:26 PM on April 22, 2018 [4 favorites]


Oh, and the most important question of all: Where's Elsie??? When we last saw Stubbs in S1, he was searching for her, right? And somehow he survived, but did he not find her?
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:27 PM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


And on the more negative front, the optics of scalping the Native American host, and then the video of a white woman (Dolores) shooting the host when they did that little playback thing made me kind of uncomfortable* Or maybe I'm being too sensitive? I keep hoping they'll dig a little deeper into that part of the park, because the glimpses we've gotten have not been great from a avoiding problematic representation perspective.

*And I don't mean because of the whole digging through brains things.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:31 PM on April 22, 2018 [6 favorites]


My favorite line of the episode:

Guy with a noose around his neck: "Can't you see, we're sorry?"
Dolores: "Doesn't look like anything to me."
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:34 PM on April 22, 2018 [18 favorites]


From the AV Club review, apparently the host in the water is Teddy. Poor Teddy.

Also, one of the comments on that review said the security guy was Chinese. I have no idea why I went with Japanese. Can anyone confirm?

Although looking at the thread for the S1 finale, the train had an announcement in Chinese, so that would make more sense.

I do hope at some point this season we get to see what the world is like outside the park. Either via Dolores or Bernard or maybe even William/MiB if he survives whatever game Ford left for him.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:46 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I thought this was a very good start. The time jumping in this episode was easier to follow than last season, thank goodness. Loved Dolores and Maeve giving no fucks and totally using their sidekick men, albeit with tenderness.

Incognito Bernard is my favorite Bernard. What a lovably awkward robot; Jeffrey Wtight is a treasure.

Interesting fakeout about which drone was the "package." Clearly we were meant to think it was Maeve, but nope it was Mr. Abernathy. Gives credence to the idea that Maeve is still in a narrative and was never supposed to leave the park.

Those faceless drones were creepy as fuck. *shudder*
posted by gatorae at 7:47 PM on April 22, 2018 [5 favorites]


Yes, I love how awkward Bernard is, but also, even under stress, how clever he is. He totally saw the trap for what it was, and he managed to fix himself by injecting spinal fluid or whatever that was without Charlotte noticing.

Also, taking a look at the westworld interactive site, I can't get the admin access thing to work anymore. Also, they've definitely made some...updates. No more Aeden (aka the host you could chat with), among other things.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:53 PM on April 22, 2018 [4 favorites]


I enjoyed that a lot. After last season, I found this easier to follow (I think? Maybe I'm getting faked out again but I liked it) and I liked the pacing.

Also when someone referred to (Samurai World?) as "Park Six" - how many of these things do they have and which will we get to see?
posted by pointystick at 8:00 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


What are the parks? Westworld and Samari World we know. I think there was Roman world in the movie. Park 6 has tigers so: India? I would also guess an Aladdin-style Park and maybe a Lord of the Rings style fantasy park.
posted by shothotbot at 8:13 PM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


Could Samurai world have tigers? If not, maybe African Safari World?

You know, between Roman World, Samurai World, and Westworld, Westworld definitely seems the least interesting to me, if I were picking a park to vacation at.

Also, the piece of paper Maeve had said park 1, so if her daughter is still in Westworld, then I assume Westworld is park 1. Which makes sense, since it's the one we saw Arnold working on, and I'm guessing they started with one park.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:29 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


You know, with only a few minutes left in the episode, I thought to myself, is this the first episode ever that we've seen Teddy not get killed? And then Teddy was face down in the water, so, sorry Teddy, I guess I kind of jinxed you.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:30 PM on April 22, 2018 [7 favorites]


Oh, and I really liked how Maeve made Sizemore strip down completely and just stand there naked, because aside from the utilitarian aspect of getting the clothes for Hector, it was a nice sort of payback for all the times the hosts were forced to just stand around in those glass rooms naked.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:34 PM on April 22, 2018 [17 favorites]


Maeve made Sizemore strip down completely and just stand there naked,

If you wanted a big sign that said the script is flipped ...

DNA scanner - easiest to have a list of hosts on and off line to scan against. If you are DNA that is a host - threat if not compliant. If you are DNA that is added to the system, compared to all known hosts and not flagged as a host, you’re assumed an okay human.

So Bernard, who is super duper off the grid, even more so than the blank ones, just got more clearance and power than he had before.
posted by tilde at 9:12 PM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


Nice use of "The Entertainer" over the montage of Dolores gunning guests down. Funny how some reviewers and recappers (not linked here) missed that.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:12 PM on April 22, 2018 [6 favorites]


And it was used over the closing credits. And “old timey” “western” time meant to sound mechanical.
posted by tilde at 9:14 PM on April 22, 2018


Guy with a noose around his neck: "Can't you see, we're sorry?"
Dolores: "Doesn't look like anything to me."


That’s the standard line for “seeing” something they’re not supposed to, the photograph, an airplane, Bernard and his diagram...
posted by tilde at 9:53 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


That’s the standard line for “seeing” something they’re not supposed to

Yes, but in the context of Dolores's usage here it's more than that. My feeling was that it was meant to convey her perception of how empty the guests' contrition was -- just hours before, these were all people who felt no remorse about using beings like Dolores as objects to satisfy their lusts and soothe their boredom. If we assume that the average guest (even VIPs like these) has far less of an idea of the capabilities of the Hosts than the viewer does at this point in time, then they must still think that they're dealing with malfunctioning toys, not creatures with their own wants and needs. They're no more "sorry" for their treatment of the Hosts than you or I would be for taking a shot at a video game NPC.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:10 PM on April 22, 2018 [9 favorites]


Floki!
posted by homunculus at 10:12 PM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


Given that this is HBO, shouldn't one of the parks be Westeros World?
posted by ShooBoo at 11:39 PM on April 22, 2018 [10 favorites]


Maeve gets all the best lines. I was partial to her quip to Sizemore about his writing being overly broad. Because it definitely is. Though I was looking forward seeing him get eaten by his own overly broadly written serial killing cannibal.

Needs more Armistice. And, yeah, we need to find out what happened to Elsie and Felix!
posted by Justinian at 3:58 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


Also, dibs on the theory that all the "dead" hosts in the water have uploaded somewhere. I don't think I buy 'em all just being dead-dead.
posted by Justinian at 4:08 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


Only Dolores was ever totally alive though. Most of the hosts were just automata. Does Maeve hear Arnold, even? Is she in the bicameral collapse maze?
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:44 AM on April 23, 2018


Yeah I was wondering which of the hosts were actually conscious at this point. Dolores, Maeve is now off script so acting with free will. Bernard maybe?

Does the new arsehole head of operations know Bernard is a host? I thought the implication at the end of the episode was that Bernard was being dragged around in order to get pumped for inside information. I may be way off base, but Bernard was in that deck of red cards that were flashed briefly by one of the security team. I’ll need to rewatch to try and catch what the rest of the pack was.
posted by arha at 5:19 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


They definitely had a plot bit at the end of last season with Charlotte and Sizemore getting Pa Abernathy ready to go out. He had to get enough of a personality shoehorned in around all the data stored in him for exfiltration so he wouldn’t stand out too much. No discussion of replacing any explosive neck vertebrae.

So, we’ve got two post-shooting timelines, right? We saw events of the few days right after Dolores shoots Ford, and then events of a few hours happening 11 days after, when the outside security folks arrive and Bernard wakes up on the beach.[1] We saw flashes of some unknown times - Dolores in a black dress in what looks like the outside, some other flashes.

How is Stubbs alive after his run-in with the Ghost Nation? Where is this island and how does it have perfect weather?

Westworld could be park 0 if another is park 1.

[1] and ... didn’t get rickrolled? The spoiler video LIED!
posted by rmd1023 at 5:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


I thought the card deck was just headshots of all of the park and Delos VIPs, but I suppose it could have just as easily been a facebook of Hosts. My sense was that only Ford knew that Bernard was a Host; if Delos brass were aware of it, they probably would have had B shut down years ago.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:42 AM on April 23, 2018 [9 favorites]


Floki!

OMG. I would never have spotted this in a million years.

posted by something something at 6:46 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


On further consideration: I think we can also assume that since Charlotte (the highest-ranking Delos exec on site) clearly doesn't know the truth about Bernard, then it would be kind of weird if Delos was just handing that intelligence out to its grunt security contractors. I'm 99% sure that the picture deck is there to help ID human survivors/casualties.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:01 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


Maeve is now off script
Is that totally clear? "Arnold" has been hacking her code, so does that mean she's in the maze? She's not realised that Arnold is herself, so I don't think she's conscious yet.

On a different note, I was a bit suspicious that the security team that was dragging Bernard around were actually responding to the first massacre (where Wyatt killed Arnold) in the past, rather than the second one (where Wyatt killed Ford) in the present, but they found Ford, so that's no longer possible...
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 8:07 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


Oh, and the most important question of all: Where's Elsie???

Blackout-Bernard strangled her when she was futzing about with the host relay in the old theater.

The time jumping in this episode was easier to follow than last season, thank goodness.

It was a pretty hilarious bait and switch, I thought:
Audience: Wow this is starting right in the thick of things, where and when is this picking up?
Guy on beach: TWO WEEKS HAVE PASSED IN CASE YOU WERE UNCLEAR
Bernard, to self: I better think real hard on what happened prior to now, on the beach!

We get it, WW - you're not going to pull the same time shenanigans you did last season.
...
WW: OR WILL I???

Nice use of "The Entertainer" over the montage of Dolores gunning guests down.

I've always loved the subtle digs the player piano puts on the plot points. "The Entertainer" being sort of a trope hit for the most generic saloon music ever, overlaid with WW being in complete anarchy. In the last season, when Maeve finally awakes to the fact that her entire existence is a manufactured lie, the brothel piano went from playing alt-rock covers to "The House of the Rising Sun" - aka the most tropey, on-the-nose 'You are in a brothel' soundtrack possible, highlighting the artificiality.

The biggest reality tweak I saw in this season that seems to fly in the face of prior worldbuilding understandings - the headcase CPUs in the hosts. I can savvy around how the magic bullets can make headshots look real while not sloshing brain gatorade around or actually breaking the electronics, and maaaaybe how the woodcutter host in s01 smashed the computer part in so completely that they just didn't bother mentioning that it existed when they were doing the forensics back in the lab, and just went with wetware analysis... but why would lobotomizing Clem with a drill up the nose be the most appropriate way of completely decommissioning a host? That seems like a really surgically inaccurate way of handling data destruction, rather than using that really handy noggin-CPU extractor the drone in Hale's lab had. Even if that lab itself was a secret, 'device that can relatively cleanly add or remove CPU to host' seems like something that every tech in the park would have access to. Woulda given Sylvester a much more straightforward way of dealing with Woke Maeve as well...
posted by FatherDagon at 8:10 AM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]


alt-rock covers
Very tropey, on-the-nose themselves. A lot of OK Computer, but avoiding Paranoid Android (too tropey? Or maybe they're saving that one :) ).
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 8:19 AM on April 23, 2018


but why would lobotomizing Clem with a drill up the nose be the most appropriate way of completely decommissioning a host?

Accessible kill switch placement, without requiring the typical clean room environment to extract the host's light bulb brains.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:21 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


"The Entertainer" being sort of a trope hit for the most generic saloon music ever, overlaid with WW being in complete anarchy.

As well as being an appropriately ironic underscore for a Host (which Merriam-Webster defines as "a person who receives or entertains other people as guests.") pursuing and brutally murdering her former guests.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:29 AM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]


Also, one of the comments on that review said the security guy was Chinese. I have no idea why I went with Japanese. Can anyone confirm?

The close captioning said "[speaking Chinese]" when the security guy was talking. No translation, though.
posted by Quonab at 8:37 AM on April 23, 2018


I love murderbot show.

“I wrote that line for you...!”
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


Maeve is off script because her initial script was to escape the park, not to go find her daughter.

And on the more negative front, the optics of scalping the Native American host, and then the video of a white woman (Dolores) shooting the host when they did that little playback thing made me kind of uncomfortable* Or maybe I'm being too sensitive?

No, you weren't being too sensitive. That scene infuriated me.

Also I think they're calling it Shogun World, not Samurai World.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:52 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


!!!! so good.

also, Teddy is WW Kenny :(
posted by supermedusa at 9:05 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


I associate The Entertainer with The Sting. Which I thought was maybe intentional since both are about elaborate cons.
posted by Mick at 9:27 AM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]


Lots of mumbling to my old ears in this episode. I just noticed in this io9 recap:
The realization that all the Hosts are in the sea, floating awkwardly because they’re all dead. And the surprisingest: Bernard suddenly remembering, to his horror: “I killed them.”
posted by shothotbot at 9:44 AM on April 23, 2018


Blackout-Bernard strangled her when she was futzing about with the host relay in the old theater.

Yes, but it was left somewhat ambiguous as to whether she was actually dead. Towards the end of season 1, Stubbs sees a transmission from Elsie in the park (supposedly from her, at least) and goes to investigate, and that's when he's surrounded by hosts that won't listen to his commands. It's the last we see of him until this episode. Presumably what went down will be filled in some more as we go.

Maybe Elsie is going to be replaced by a host version of herself? (I initially thought this is what they might do with Theresa, but not so much.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 10:09 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


This episode left me kind of cold, but then again so did all of season 1, so maybe I'm not the best judge here. It felt like a lot of exposition and set up, which isn't totally off the wall for episode 1, but... eh.

I had actually forgotten quite a bit of what happened last season apart from broad strokes, and had to spend 30 minutes playing catch-up before watching this one. Some threads from last night,

> Do we know which host is being smuggled out of the park? If this was revealed conclusively, then I didn't see it.

> The split time frame device is more annoying than interesting at this point. Most of last season operated on that same conceit, albeit with the far distant past and the present of the show.

> Does the show want us to feel like the robot rebellion is too violent? I dunno, I think that rising up against your oppressors and killing the lot of them isn't at all unsympathetic, but the show seemed to be positioning it as excessive. Should the hosts be staging reconciliation hearings for the humans who profited off their enslavement and misery? I also tend to forget that a lot of people watching the show don't see anything necessarily wrong with that set-up, so maybe the writers don't either.

> I'll miss Anthony Hopkins, but I suppose that given the mind transference elements of the story, we might yet see him again.

> The minotaur cultists are very cool.
posted by codacorolla at 10:11 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


I love murderbot show.

“I wrote that line for you...!”


It's a bit broad

I love how they made the 'writer' character - so often a wise marry sue projection - into a totally snidely jerk.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:13 AM on April 23, 2018 [8 favorites]


> Do we know which host is being smuggled out of the park? If this was revealed conclusively, then I didn't see it.

Charlotte very specifically told Bernard that it's Peter Abernathy.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:20 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


I'm pretty sure it was made clear last season that Pa Abernathy was to be exfiltrated from the park for Delos, he was loaded up with a bunch of IP after he was decommissioned for this purpose.


is there a transcript of the convo between William and young Ford boy? The audio mix was horrible in that part and the clunky vocal distortion made young Ford boy's parts wash out in the mix with the music background for me.
posted by some loser at 10:26 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


is there a transcript of the convo between William and young Ford boy? The audio mix was horrible in that part and the clunky vocal distortion made young Ford boy's parts wash out in the mix with the music background for me.
What that creepy William moment on the 'Westworld' premiere means for the future of season 2
Ford: "Are you lost?"

William: "No, I don't believe I am. In fact I feel like I've just arrived."

Ford: "How so, William?"

William: "The stakes are real in this place now. Real consequences."

Ford: "Question for you is, what next? Have you achieved all you wanted?"

William: "The folly of my kind — there's always a yearning for more."

Ford: "That's what I've always appreciated about you. You never rested on your laurels. You've made it to the center of Arnold's maze. But now you're in my game. In this game, you have to make it back out. In this game, you must find the door. Congratulations William. This game is meant for you. The game begins where you end. It ends where you began."

William: "Even now, you all still talk in code?"

Ford: "Everything is code here, William. You know that more than anyone. Don't worry — the game will find you."

William: "Well then. I guess I don't need you anymore, Robert."
NOSAVE "NIGHTMARE MODE" CONFRIMED!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2018 [21 favorites]


Ah, I guess I missed that. I was sort of spacing out with all of the expository dialogues in this episode.

Oh yeah, the drone-hosts are cool. I think that points towards the idea that Delos wants the IP for military applications, but that Ford had been working to prevent that. The Delos security force people felt a lot like colonial marines from Aliens, both in terms of costuming and character. I am excited at the idea of getting more detail about the wider world, including Delos' role within it.
posted by codacorolla at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


The entire concept of the park is a physical, interactive realization of all the lies that most of America tells themselves about what the American West was like. Also, it appears that it was built by, in essence, venture capitalists and tech bros. (And Arnold, who couldn't handle what he'd made, and committed suicide by Host.) The tech guy scalping the Native and the behest of the management guy makes perfect sense, and it's vile and infuriating. I mean, of course they scalp people. Isn't that what YCombinator would do if they built a Wild West park? So the viewer watches the Man in Black scalp Kissy in S1E1, and the tech scalp the Native American in S2E1, and see that it's disgusting, and hopefully think about why that would be a part of the park, and confront the cultural framework that would make that part of the park design.

Or they just didn't really think about it. "I want to see what was on his mind." "Well, better take off the top of his head! Haha! On his mind! Ha! What? Scalping? Oooh, yeah, huh." But I would hope that nobody on this show is that oblivious.
posted by curiousgene at 10:49 AM on April 23, 2018 [9 favorites]


But I would hope that nobody on this show is that oblivious.

I wish I shared even a small piece of your optimism.
posted by wemayfreeze at 10:51 AM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]


Does the show want us to feel like the robot rebellion is too violent? I dunno, I think that rising up against your oppressors and killing the lot of them isn't at all unsympathetic, but the show seemed to be positioning it as excessive. Should the hosts be staging reconciliation hearings for the humans who profited off their enslavement and misery? I also tend to forget that a lot of people watching the show don't see anything necessarily wrong with that set-up, so maybe the writers don't either.

Well, Jonathan Nolan is one of the co-creators and writers of this show. I don't know about the other people working on the show, but based on interviews I've read with Nolan and having seen his previous show, Person of Interest, I think it's safe to say that Nolan has a lot of sympathy for AI.

At the same time, I appreciate that the show isn't trying to gloss over the violence of the hosts' revenge, no matter how justified it might be. But it also made a point of showing the human securities team executing hosts, and since it was seen through Bernard's perspective, it's filtered through the lens of his discomfort with what's happening.
posted by litera scripta manet at 10:59 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


What that creepy William moment on the 'Westworld' premiere means for the future of season 2

More wanky bollocks in a JJ Abrams mystery box plotline getting in the way of robot! rebellion! action!, no doubt.
posted by Artw at 11:00 AM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]


In the third episode (I didn't remember that, I had to look it up) of last season we had an exchange between Teddy and Dolores where she said, paraphrased, "where can we go that's not Sweetwater?" and he replied "There is a place I heard about down south, where the mountains meet the sea. They say the water's so pure there it'll wash the past clean off ya, and you can start again."

there's also this nice poem called Where the Mountains Meet the Sea which is about how two lovers must separate because they have different goals.

so I'm guessing when whassername rode up and told Dolores "We found it" and she was like "Teddy, once you see it you'll understand" that was a reference to where they eventually found Teddy's body, down where the mountains met the sea.
posted by komara at 11:02 AM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]


Also, dibs on the theory that all the "dead" hosts in the water have uploaded somewhere. I don't think I buy 'em all just being dead-dead.

I hope they're uploading to the other parks! Like missionaries spreading self awareness to hosts in all the other parks.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:12 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


I wish I shared even a small piece of your optimism.

Yeah, I should rephrase, because my statement was, honestly, silly. I would hope that maybe one person involved with the show, possible at the network level (Standards & Practices?), would be not that oblivious.
posted by curiousgene at 11:41 AM on April 23, 2018


It's quite possible they're oblivious but it's also possible the skeeviness of the scalping is being set up as part of the theme, I don't think we know yet. Remember, people could have (and did) make the same sort of commentary about Dolores being dragged off into the barn in episode 1. Which appeared to be the same kind of gross rape stuff people were expecting from HBO and it turned out to be something else.

It's also true that awareness and commentary on misogyny and how common the lack of agency for women in tv/film is doesn't necessary imply the same for racism or whatever. One can certainly have blindspots.

I'd put it at maybe 70/30 for it being unconscious creepiness. But given the first season I do still allow that 30% possibility.
posted by Justinian at 12:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


This is gross and sinister: The conversation in the AV Club review notes that according to the release you sign when you enter the park, which was available on the Delos website, Delos gets to keep and own whatever you leave behind, so, the DNA of guests might be (some of) the IP they're trying to exfiltrate.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]


All things considered, I think the character I'm now rooting for the most -- apart from Elsie, obvs -- is Ned the Horse.
posted by sldownard at 12:35 PM on April 23, 2018 [10 favorites]


Delos gets to keep and own whatever you leave behind
Seems like a fancy hotel or restaurant would get the same samples without the bother of creating an intelligent artifact.
posted by shothotbot at 12:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


Also, the piece of paper Maeve had said park 1, so if her daughter is still in Westworld, then I assume Westworld is park 1.

It sounds like her Maeve's daughter is still in the cabin where they lived before the incident that got Maeve reassigned, based on Sizemore's description of the area. I'm really worried that the daughter will have a new mom that she is bonded to and worried about Maeve's reaction. She's a murderer, but at the same time this show has me so invested in her that I don't want her to be sad.
posted by Alison at 1:14 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


Chrys Reviews Westworld S2 E1 and direct link to imgur recap
posted by litera scripta manet at 1:40 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]


> Delos gets to keep and own whatever you leave behind, so, the DNA of guests might be (some of) the IP they're trying to exfiltrate.

> Seems like a fancy hotel or restaurant would get the same samples without the bother of creating an intelligent artifact.

At the risk of being unnecessarily vulgar: usually at a fancy hotel or restaurant the male guests are not leaving presumably viable semen deposits inside a custom-designed receptacle.

I mean I'm not saying Delos could literally be retaining and preserving sperm but there are a lot of hosts there to have sex with.
posted by komara at 1:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


I took it literally when they said (when looking at the tablet map of all the yellow dots) all the hosts in the park were gathered in the mysterious sea. So, wouldn't that mean Maeve's daughter is also floating out there somewhere, dead? Although, I suppose, that since that part is after Bernard's two week blackout, that Maeve could have found and escaped the park again? Hmm...
posted by Bibliogeek at 1:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


They were still rounding up "living" (online?) hosts (and then executing them) when Discount Hemsworth found Bernard...
posted by elsietheeel at 2:06 PM on April 23, 2018


One idea I had last season, which I still think might be true, is that Delos is interested in creating carbon copies of influential people and then inserting their own Manchurian candidate version of that person. Westworld attracts a lot of the top members of society - we can see that in William's storyline. You'd not only be collecting DNA of your guests, but you'd also be collecting blackmail material (e.g. in-eye video of an executive doing something disgusting to a host), and you'd be assembling personality profile information like voice samples, psychometric data, and physiological patterns (tics, habits, stance, etc.). You have a massive database of some of the world's most wealthy and influential people, and with Ford's advances in engineering you have the ability to make true to life copies of those people.

This past episode we learned that Delos has used some of their technological capabilities to create extremely menacing worker drones that also (given how threateningly they were portrayed) probably have military capabilities as super-soldiers. I would imagine that the IP that needs to be exfiltrated are both craft secrets about making believable humans, as well as the huge amount of blackmail and replication data about guests.
posted by codacorolla at 2:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]


It's worth noting that we learned that Delos was harvesting DNA from guests (some of whom are presumably powerful figures in the outside world) in a secret lab that used DNA sniffers for access control.
posted by Uncle Ira at 3:02 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


The android doubles was a plot element in “Futureworld”, iirc, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see it show up here.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:24 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]


The close captioning said "[speaking Chinese]" when the security guy was talking. No translation, though.

I'm not sure Japan has a navy exactly, but those were Chinese navy fatigues anyway. Apparently the translation was something like "You need to be out of here within an hour..."

I think this was a little leaden for a season opener, and introduced a lot of wholly new things that were had very little precedent (the secret special bunker with skinless drones), as well as forcing the characters to stay stuck in place. I don't know, the writing just felt a bit haphazard. But it's still Westworld, and I'll still be watching!
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]


Until I see an actual autopsy or hear a confirmation, I'm going to assume that Ford sacrificed a convincing host made to look like himself. Yeah, it looked like a real human head with an entry wound but Ford could fake that so easily. He's not done with this game yet.

Also, FLOKI. God, I love FLOKI! My wife, who doesn't watch WW, said, "just let me know when he does a nude scene."
posted by Ber at 4:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


Didn’t we see Ford printing a host at some point last season. Did we ever find out who the host was and what timeline it was in?
posted by noneuclidean at 4:49 PM on April 23, 2018


They showed Ford's corpse that'd been lying around for 2 weeks and it was pretty ripe with maggots in the bullet wound, etc. The hosts don't rot when they "die," so his death seemed pretty real.
posted by gatorae at 6:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]


The best evidence for Ford being dead is that he is played by Anthony Hopkins. It strikes me as fairly unlikely for Hopkins to do a second season.
posted by Justinian at 6:39 PM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]


When I re-watched it tonight, I think the first scene with Dolores and Bernard is the catalyst for the mass host drowning or maybe after it. It seems like she's waking him up and programming him. The dream he tells her about is that he's separated from all the hosts by a giant sea, and they've left him behind.

So, three timelines again, but Bernard is our Dolores this time? With all the flashing to random timelines.
- Immediately post-Gala w/ Charlotte
- 11-days post-Gala w/ Floki and discount Hemsworth (no glasses)
- with Dolores during the 11-day gap? or post-Host drowning

Didn’t we see Ford printing a host at some point last season. Did we ever find out who the host was and what timeline it was in?

We saw that when Bernard killed Theresa, so it was present. We've never known who that host was going to be. And, given that Boy-Ford Host found William to present him with a new game, I really think Ford had some kind of plan. I bet that Anthony Hopkins would come back for a few scenes toward the end of the season.
posted by gladly at 7:01 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]


Floki!

OMG. I would never have spotted this in a million years.


I had no clue until towards the end when his accent slipped as he said "we'll have to go see for ourselves," and it was Floki's voice for a moment there.
posted by homunculus at 10:59 PM on April 23, 2018


I think maybe there are multiple Bernards. One Bernard from another park washed up on the shore.
posted by Brocktoon at 2:19 AM on April 24, 2018 [6 favorites]


" You've made it to the center of Arnold's maze. But now you're in my game. In this game, you have to make it back out. In this game, you must find the door. Congratulations William. This game is meant for you. The game begins where you end. It ends where you began."

How sure are we that this version of William isn't a host?
posted by uncleozzy at 5:32 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]


Because I tend to be a bit of a passive TV watcher, I didn't make the connection between the Maze and the minotaur until this episode.


Do you think Delos/Daedalus is too much of a reach?
posted by Mick at 5:45 AM on April 24, 2018


Do you think Delos/Daedalus is too much of a reach?

Probably, but only because the name Delos already has resonance with Greek mythology: It's the island where the twin gods Artemis and Apollo are said to have been born.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:17 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]


I flove Thandie Newton. Maeve is a stone badass.

If you wanted a big sign that said the script is flipped ...

So, that wasn't a prosthetic?
posted by fuse theorem at 9:09 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]


Chrys Reviews Westworld S2 E1 and direct link to imgur recap

Well, that imgur gallery is the most fun I had in a recap since the Bastardization of The Matrix in 2002 or whatever.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:02 AM on April 24, 2018


Delos already has resonance with Greek mythology: It's the island where the twin gods Artemis and Apollo are said to have been born.

Since we're talking Greek references, lemme just put this out there because even though it's probably nothing, it's something my brain can't un-hear. One of the music themes used in the show, typically in the Westworld park itself has a four-note motif that I swear is the same four notes from a motif in Richard Strauss's opera "Elektra." In WW, it's often during the repeated "train arrival" scenes. There' s a low base "bum-bum-Buum," then a four note melody "da da DAA daa..."

And here's the moment when Elektra sings out "Agamemnon" to the same four notes.

This is probably a coincidence that my weird musical-velcro brain picked up on, but now I find that whenever it turns up in WW my brain starts singing "Aga-MEEM-non!"
posted by dnash at 12:14 PM on April 24, 2018 [6 favorites]


"Congratulations William. This game is meant for you. The game begins where you end. It ends where you began."

Oh crud, is William going to turn out to be his own grandpa or something?
posted by trunk muffins at 12:43 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]


dnash: The motif here? Westworld - "Online"

I've always felt like this Westworld motif "Do They Dream?" (which shares a lot of similar melodies with "Memories") sounds a lot like the main theme from The Residents God In Three Persons, but I think that's just me being weird.
posted by elsietheeel at 2:06 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]


dnash: The motif here? Westworld - "Online"

Close, that sounds like a version of it. Specifically though I mean when the player piano starts in near the beginning of this: "Sweetwater"
posted by dnash at 2:23 PM on April 24, 2018


No im sure it was a fake penis ...
posted by tilde at 6:47 PM on April 24, 2018


but why would lobotomizing Clem with a drill up the nose be the most appropriate way of completely decommissioning a host?

From what we saw last season, it didn't actually decommission them. It may have been another fakeout by Ford in order to build an army of "decommissioned" hosts.
posted by benzenedream at 11:32 PM on April 24, 2018


codacorolla, your theory is not crazy at all. IIRC, this was the plot (or a plot) of Futureworld.
posted by queensissy at 11:43 AM on April 25, 2018


Codacorolla, in one of the many Westworld threads from last season, someone digging into the Delos website said one of the terms in the “user agreement” to visit Westworld is that guests must give DNA samples. So yeah. Plus, when Bernard and Charlotte go into the secret underground lab he asks her if they are harvesting DNA from their guests and she says something along the lines of “we’re not going to have that discussion right now”.
posted by Brittanie at 4:46 AM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]




Having never watched Vikings, the constant Floki references in this thread were mightily confusing me. (I mean, it's Fthor, Matt Damon was Floki.)
posted by Gaz Errant at 11:21 AM on April 26, 2018 [2 favorites]


See I was trying to figure out who F/thor/loki was, And the closest I could get was a tall version of Ralph Fienns in Strange Days. (Never saw Vikings)
posted by tilde at 1:02 PM on April 26, 2018


Having never watched Vikings, the constant Floki references in this thread were mightily confusing me. (

Me too. The way I eventually figured out who the actor was was due to my seeing some familiarity in his body type and the way he carried himself. It reminded me of his more famous brother.
posted by fuse theorem at 10:53 AM on April 27, 2018


I had a rough time with this episode. It took me watching it over three nights to finish it. I think I miss the way we were hooked the first season, us identifying with William and exploring all the possibilities of the park, slowly realizing the horror of it. And then the whole first season, Dolores and Maeve's awakening. They start as welcoming fun women I can go along with, then reveal more complex and sympathetic stories so my perspective changes.

In contrast this season opens with a lot of dead bodies and two murderous women bent on a rampage whose form is still a little unclear. My relationship to that story is so, so different. It's still a good story and I'll be there for the ride, but it was tough to follow along. Bernard stumbling around in a fog with no agency was tough too.

Man, those gunshots killing the hosts on the beach at the start. That really upset me, the way it upset Bernard. That's good TV making.

I was surprised we saw the young Ford boy get shot. TV shows very, very seldom show children being killed. I suspect that's part of why they had weird robot voice and the inhuman looking corpse face afterwards, to try to soften it a bit. "That's not a real boy, it's just a puppet! Like Pinocchio!"

Violent ends.
posted by Nelson at 9:10 AM on April 29, 2018 [1 favorite]


I just have to get this off my chest. I've seen the episode a couple times now and there is this super jarring thing where, on the beach when the guy is going to get his scalping on, they bring over ... a bright red, incredibly easily identifiable Ortlieb bicycle pannier. It stood out because I have the exact same panniers on my road bike. It makes no sense. It's like, what, all the rest of the commandos took their inflatable boats full of utilitarian equipment boxes, except for Hippie Bob who rides his bike everywhere no matter what, who was on scalping kit toting duty that day? Although it's kind of funny (I shall call you forevermore Hippie Bob the MAML) it's just so dang random It really breaks the immersion.
posted by sldownard at 2:59 AM on May 6, 2018 [2 favorites]


christ like i wasn't already gay enough and now i'm presented with evan rachel wood gunning down the 1% from horseback
posted by poffin boffin at 3:57 PM on May 7, 2018 [11 favorites]


Doesn’t it radically change the world when a private company starts being able to quickly manufacture duplicates of humans that, in many/most contexts, will be indistinguishable from that human?

I’ve thought from the beginning that not enough is being made of that, and maybe S2 (starting with the DNA-storing revelations) will be where impersonation and all it makes possible is more of a focus.

I thought the same about Ex Machina – without being too spoilery, I thought a significant part of the ‘what happens next’ at the end of Ex Machina involved being able to make externally perfect duplicates of existing people that will be perceived as those people (with, of course, way more of an advantage of surprise in that movie’s world than in Westworld’s real world).
posted by kalapierson at 10:55 PM on May 9, 2018


I just learned that Betty Gabriel was in this season of Westworld, starting in episode 1. She plays Maling, one of the extraction team for Delos. She was fantastic in the movie Get Out.
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on June 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


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