Outlander: The Deep Heart's Core Books Included
January 7, 2019 9:48 AM - Season 4, Episode 10 - Subscribe
Jamie and Claire keep secrets from one another as they try to help Brianna process her recent trauma; however, the secrets they keep cause a bigger familial rift once they are revealed.
I got so squicked out by Jamie trying to show Brianna that she couldn't overcome her rapist if she wanted to, the smirk on his face was too much. I mean I'm irrationally in love with his character because my goodness those arms, and I get the point he was trying to make, but that was icky.
posted by danapiper at 3:41 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by danapiper at 3:41 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
That scene in the books was horrifying and I was extremely looking forward to it not being in the show because of how unbelievably bad it was and how much it made me dislike him, and I was so fucking revolted to see it actually take place. What an incredibly terrible decision they made in doing that.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:50 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:50 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
anyway the hilariously overblown cliffhanger ending to the episode made me cackle like ursula the sea witch
posted by poffin boffin at 3:52 PM on January 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:52 PM on January 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
also idk if it's okay to talk about things that happen in much later books despite this being the books included thread, but if they go in the book plot direction wrt how brianna later interacts with stephen bonnet i will literally set the entire world on fire with my mind.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:59 PM on January 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:59 PM on January 7, 2019 [6 favorites]
I agree with you on the Brianna/Bonnet thing. But I actually liked the scene with Jamie showing Brianna how she couldn’t have fought back, much as I understand how others would hate it. I’m really digging the chemistry between Sam Heughan and Sophie Skelton. They are really working for me as Jamie and Brianna in a way I totally did not expect. Maybe Sam Heughan is just incredibly good at working with every actor ever and makes them look good?
Yeah Murtagh. I can get behind this Murtagh/Jocasta action. The Duncan Innes thing never really made sense to me. This does.
posted by olinerd at 6:31 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yeah Murtagh. I can get behind this Murtagh/Jocasta action. The Duncan Innes thing never really made sense to me. This does.
posted by olinerd at 6:31 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
That scene in the books was horrifying and I was extremely looking forward to it not being in the show
Me too, and I was just relieved they pared it down and cut out the worst of the dialogue. Ugh.
Otherwise I thought this episode was the best of the season. Very cathartic to see Brianna slug Jamie AND Ian (god love 'em) both within about 60 seconds. And I am glad that the show is keeping the tension (from the book) between Jamie's and Brianna's notion of "honor," and whose responsibility or right it is to defend it. Jamie has the idea that he had had to defend his own honor as a victim in the past, and that now it is up to him to defend Brianna's honor (AND his own, again--or the family's at least), after an attack on her. Brianna's pushback on what constitutes honorable behavior for herself, who will decide that, and whose right it is to seek vengeance for her victimization, is very welcome.
Also, this episode was the first time I really bought Sophie Skelton's acting. I haven't thought her awful, or anything, just not up to the level of the other cast members. But she did some subtle work this week, along with the fireworks. Especially in the scene in which Claire is talking to Brianna about the possibility of abortion, but also in some quiet but emotional interactions she has with Lizzie and with Jamie.
posted by torticat at 9:24 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Me too, and I was just relieved they pared it down and cut out the worst of the dialogue. Ugh.
Otherwise I thought this episode was the best of the season. Very cathartic to see Brianna slug Jamie AND Ian (god love 'em) both within about 60 seconds. And I am glad that the show is keeping the tension (from the book) between Jamie's and Brianna's notion of "honor," and whose responsibility or right it is to defend it. Jamie has the idea that he had had to defend his own honor as a victim in the past, and that now it is up to him to defend Brianna's honor (AND his own, again--or the family's at least), after an attack on her. Brianna's pushback on what constitutes honorable behavior for herself, who will decide that, and whose right it is to seek vengeance for her victimization, is very welcome.
Also, this episode was the first time I really bought Sophie Skelton's acting. I haven't thought her awful, or anything, just not up to the level of the other cast members. But she did some subtle work this week, along with the fireworks. Especially in the scene in which Claire is talking to Brianna about the possibility of abortion, but also in some quiet but emotional interactions she has with Lizzie and with Jamie.
posted by torticat at 9:24 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I can get behind this Murtagh/Jocasta action.
It helps that Maria Kennedy Doyle is a rock star and fucking amazing. I could watch her all day.
posted by torticat at 9:28 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
It helps that Maria Kennedy Doyle is a rock star and fucking amazing. I could watch her all day.
posted by torticat at 9:28 PM on January 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
anyway the hilariously overblown cliffhanger ending to the episode made me cackle like ursula the sea witch
It sounded like it was going to be bees.
I promised myself bees
It wasn't bees; just stones
More stones.
posted by rongorongo at 9:52 PM on January 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
It sounded like it was going to be bees.
I promised myself bees
It wasn't bees; just stones
More stones.
posted by rongorongo at 9:52 PM on January 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
This episode and the last has had a lot of montages of how idyllic life in Fraser's Ridge is and I'm not loving it. They're nice about it, but they're still active participants in the ongoing genocide of the native peoples, there by choice, and encouraging more white people to move to the frontier.
I'm not actually that mad at the characters about it, but I am mad about how the show is choosing to portray it.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:45 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm not actually that mad at the characters about it, but I am mad about how the show is choosing to portray it.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:45 PM on January 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also Roger is a dumb butt if he doesn't go back to the future. He's got multiple data points which indicate repeated travel is possible, he's in bad shape, with no supplies or idea where he is, and being pursued. Go to the future, get supplies and a map, then come back and find Bree.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:46 PM on January 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:46 PM on January 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh this is just getting too much into Mary Sue territory for me. Because Brianna was not forthright about her attacker, Lizzie gets the wrong idea. Seriously, in the intervening months, she never mentions her handfast with Roger and that she instigated an argument which drove him off? So Lizzie fingers the wrong guy (Brianna oddly reconciled to her involvement), Jamie and Ian go into "defend her honor" mode which was par for their time period as well as Brianna's time period, not to mention the time period in which the books were written. Brianna lashes out as is her custom and now the household is upended to chase Roger's captors, possibly all the way to New York territory. Brianna declines an abortion on the infinitesimal chance that Roger might be the father and not the sociopathic murdering raping criminal. The writers made a point of saying how much Claire thrived on Frasier's Ridge and now Brianna has forced her to leave to search for the man Brianna rejected (twice). I'm reminded of the time Jenny got out of bed the day after giving birth after like 24 hours in labor to ride out on horseback for over a day to warn Jamie about something, I forget why, and she ended up killing a soldier face to face. Strong lass.
This mistaken identity/who's the father/revenge/atonement storyline is just the worst. Looking forward to Brianna leaving Jocasta's plantation after one night because she won't tolerate a comfortable confinement that benefits from the slave system. Also why is she announcing to all and sundry that she's not married? There was no internet back then, just lie and say your husband was captured by the Indians. In those times, couples in remote areas were "married" before they could get a passing parson to formalize it later. So it's not actually a lie.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:52 AM on January 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
This mistaken identity/who's the father/revenge/atonement storyline is just the worst. Looking forward to Brianna leaving Jocasta's plantation after one night because she won't tolerate a comfortable confinement that benefits from the slave system. Also why is she announcing to all and sundry that she's not married? There was no internet back then, just lie and say your husband was captured by the Indians. In those times, couples in remote areas were "married" before they could get a passing parson to formalize it later. So it's not actually a lie.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:52 AM on January 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
if they go in the book plot direction wrt how brianna later interacts with stephen bonnet i will literally set the entire world on fire with my mind.
AND I'LL HELP.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:02 PM on January 8, 2019
AND I'LL HELP.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:02 PM on January 8, 2019
Also Roger is a dumb butt if he doesn't go back to the future. He's got multiple data points which indicate repeated travel is possible
I am not a book reader so maybe the rules of time travel via standing stone are more clear, there, but to me, a standing stone in Scotland which seems to consistently offer travel back and forth a set number of years does not necessarily mean that a standing stone somewhere in America will offer the same exact time-travel result. If I were Roger I'd be seriously concerned that this other standing stone would send me who knows how many years in who knows which direction in time. It's not like they're labeled.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:17 PM on January 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
I am not a book reader so maybe the rules of time travel via standing stone are more clear, there, but to me, a standing stone in Scotland which seems to consistently offer travel back and forth a set number of years does not necessarily mean that a standing stone somewhere in America will offer the same exact time-travel result. If I were Roger I'd be seriously concerned that this other standing stone would send me who knows how many years in who knows which direction in time. It's not like they're labeled.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:17 PM on January 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
This episode and the last has had a lot of montages of how idyllic life in Fraser's Ridge is and I'm not loving it
They’re doing kind of a weird thing and it’s frustrating, like, Fraser’s Ridge is supposed to have other people in it than Murtagh, and other houses, they are cutting down trees and clearing land and doing all sorts of things, which they don’t do in the show I think because they’re more aware of how fraught the settler thing is, but the house is stocked with all the products of wealth or at the very least other people. Like glazed pottery and skilled carpentry and a truly breathtaking amount of changes of clothing that Claire definitely doesn’t have the skill or time to sew, and it keeps getting more and more jarring each episode.
posted by corb at 5:28 AM on January 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
They’re doing kind of a weird thing and it’s frustrating, like, Fraser’s Ridge is supposed to have other people in it than Murtagh, and other houses, they are cutting down trees and clearing land and doing all sorts of things, which they don’t do in the show I think because they’re more aware of how fraught the settler thing is, but the house is stocked with all the products of wealth or at the very least other people. Like glazed pottery and skilled carpentry and a truly breathtaking amount of changes of clothing that Claire definitely doesn’t have the skill or time to sew, and it keeps getting more and more jarring each episode.
posted by corb at 5:28 AM on January 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Another non-bookie curious about the stones but my guess (only batting .500 here) is that Roger doesn't go through the stones because that would entirely negate the Rescue Roger plot. I assume he gets recaptured for the same reason, probably yanked back at the last minute. Knowing about LocalStones though = Chekhov's Gun.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2019
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2019
Also, I had NO idea that Jamie found more settlers. I can see that a set showing more cabins, more actors adds to the production cost but a scene with Jamie and Murtaugh discussing plots of land and map visual would not be difficult and I guess it would explain the fantasy finishing touches in the cabin if they are paying rent to him. Are they?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:20 AM on January 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:20 AM on January 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also, I had NO idea that Jamie found more settlers.
I'd have to go back and look, but I think the shot in the previous episode of Brianna, Claire, and Jamie looking out over the Fraser's Ridge view seems to show some CGI settlement happening down in the valley?
posted by Preserver at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2019
I'd have to go back and look, but I think the shot in the previous episode of Brianna, Claire, and Jamie looking out over the Fraser's Ridge view seems to show some CGI settlement happening down in the valley?
posted by Preserver at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2019
I think that issue was discussed also with the governor--that Jamie would promote settlement in western NC. And did Jamie mention giving whiskey to some of the settlers?
Also, the Germans who had the fatal misunderstanding with Native Americans were some of those settlers.
Anyone else watch this on Amazon, and notice that they dropped at least the last two episodes on Saturday night? Weird! Sadly, it doesn't look like they did it this week.
posted by torticat at 2:44 PM on January 12, 2019
Also, the Germans who had the fatal misunderstanding with Native Americans were some of those settlers.
Anyone else watch this on Amazon, and notice that they dropped at least the last two episodes on Saturday night? Weird! Sadly, it doesn't look like they did it this week.
posted by torticat at 2:44 PM on January 12, 2019
Another non-bookie curious about the stones but my guess (only batting .500 here) is that Roger doesn't go through the stones because that would entirely negate the Rescue Roger plot.
My guess is that any device which is sufficiently advanced to be able to dis-assemble every molecule of a person's body, clothing and held belongings in one time and space - move them to the same earth (not galaxy) location at a different time and then re-assemble exactly as they were before - is going to be sophisticated enough to put them wherever the plot needs them to be.
posted by rongorongo at 11:11 PM on January 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
My guess is that any device which is sufficiently advanced to be able to dis-assemble every molecule of a person's body, clothing and held belongings in one time and space - move them to the same earth (not galaxy) location at a different time and then re-assemble exactly as they were before - is going to be sophisticated enough to put them wherever the plot needs them to be.
posted by rongorongo at 11:11 PM on January 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
torticat - episodes go up at midnight EST. If you’re on the west coast you’ll see them at 9 PM Saturday.
posted by olinerd at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2019
posted by olinerd at 7:07 AM on January 13, 2019
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That said, Brianna is 100% right that you cannot trust Jamie and Ian to do anything. Anything. Claire keeps everyone out of trouble so many times in this entire series.
posted by corb at 1:11 PM on January 7, 2019