The Expanse: Winnipesaukee
January 26, 2021 4:55 PM - Season 5, Episode 9 - Subscribe
Amos, Clarissa, and a gang of thieves work together to leave Earth. Avasarala tries to head off a brutal military strike. Drummer's new family bonds are tested as Naomi's life hangs in the balance.
This episode felt like filler, with little movement from previous episode and most of the players in the same position as before.
Still the characters are enjoyable enough that it’s not a big deal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:36 PM on January 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Still the characters are enjoyable enough that it’s not a big deal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:36 PM on January 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Agree. I even fast-forwarded through the gunfight since I've already seen oodles of them from TV/movies. But the gently floating guard leader's corpse, and Amos's soft push to lower the body to the floor, were a nice touch.
posted by mono blanco at 6:45 PM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mono blanco at 6:45 PM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
The Game of Thrones structure, where episode 9 was the climax and episode 10 was the aftermath, probably would have worked better. We’ve known there’s gonna be some sort of shootout around Naoni’s ship, no need to drag it out.
Like Amos, I hate waiting.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 PM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Like Amos, I hate waiting.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 PM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah I was starting to think Naomi just likes the intoxicating feeling of being oxygen deprived last episode so its interesting to see some people just reaching their limit with this one which was, overall, much more peppy in terms of pacing.
posted by some loser at 8:36 PM on January 26, 2021
posted by some loser at 8:36 PM on January 26, 2021
I love this show.
I’ve been very happy with this season as we’ve gotten to see more of everyone else, and less of James Holden.
Not to crap all over Holden (I mean, I’m about to), but it’s really neat to get up close and personal with all of the secondary players and really see their depth, see them as fully formed people, with history and baggage and all.
I was just describing Holden to my charming bride, “He’s a fucking paladin” may have been said. Strong moral compass, does not compromise on that, but *acts* on it no matter WHO gets hurt. Paladins are jerks of the first water, even (especially!) when they’re right.
That aside, yay! Avasarala running things again! And of course the mens saying she was being ‘emotional’. As if wanting to shoot some bastard personally wasn’t an emotional motivation.
Anyway, I’m a huge fanboy, I’m loving this season, and I think I might just binge from the beginning to date while we wait for the next (final?) installment.
I might have the hots for Drummer.
posted by drfu at 9:28 PM on January 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I’ve been very happy with this season as we’ve gotten to see more of everyone else, and less of James Holden.
Not to crap all over Holden (I mean, I’m about to), but it’s really neat to get up close and personal with all of the secondary players and really see their depth, see them as fully formed people, with history and baggage and all.
I was just describing Holden to my charming bride, “He’s a fucking paladin” may have been said. Strong moral compass, does not compromise on that, but *acts* on it no matter WHO gets hurt. Paladins are jerks of the first water, even (especially!) when they’re right.
That aside, yay! Avasarala running things again! And of course the mens saying she was being ‘emotional’. As if wanting to shoot some bastard personally wasn’t an emotional motivation.
Anyway, I’m a huge fanboy, I’m loving this season, and I think I might just binge from the beginning to date while we wait for the next (final?) installment.
I might have the hots for Drummer.
posted by drfu at 9:28 PM on January 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I’ve been very happy with this season as we’ve gotten to see more of everyone else, and less of James Holden.
So much this. He's by far the least interesting character in the story and while I feel he was useful at the beginning, as a catalyst to bring everyone together, I'd be happy to continue seeing a lot less of him. I would have gladly traded his scenes this episode for more time with ... pretty much anyone else.
Someone said it last week but it bears repeating: Karal needs to get spaced before this season ends.
The last scene with Marco and Filip could've carried a trigger warning for anyone who's been in a relationship with a narcissist, that's how accurate it was. Crying for themselves because the woman they kidnapped and abused wanted to escape from them.
It's a small thing, but it bothered me that Drummer namechecked Ashford and Naomi but not Fred, who she'd known and been close to for far longer and was also taken out by Marco's people.
I nearly fast-forwarded through the shootout as well; as soon as Discount Michael Kelly and his "security crew" showed up it was pretty clear what was coming and how it was going to play out. That being said, I guess I should've known that convo between Amos and Erich's lieutenant meant she wasn't gonna make it, but it was still upsetting. She feels a lot more memorable than several of the characters we met last season.
As a follow-on from last week's commentary, the lack of info in Naomi's scenes really works for me. Seeing her focus in on a tiny thing like that bare patch of wire in the bomb circuitry and knowing it means *something* to her but having no idea what, then having it slowly piece together over subsequent scenes makes it much more interesting. In the books it's much easier to convey that Naomi is basically an engineering genius, and her scenes on the Chetzemoka feel like the first time the show's had the opportunity to demonstrate that in a similar way.
I understand that this show is bloody expensive to produce and that production quality has gone up since Amazon took over, but watching this episode and knowing there's only one more to wrap everything up really makes me miss the 13-episode seasons with SyFy.
posted by myotahapea at 2:22 AM on January 27, 2021 [10 favorites]
So much this. He's by far the least interesting character in the story and while I feel he was useful at the beginning, as a catalyst to bring everyone together, I'd be happy to continue seeing a lot less of him. I would have gladly traded his scenes this episode for more time with ... pretty much anyone else.
Someone said it last week but it bears repeating: Karal needs to get spaced before this season ends.
The last scene with Marco and Filip could've carried a trigger warning for anyone who's been in a relationship with a narcissist, that's how accurate it was. Crying for themselves because the woman they kidnapped and abused wanted to escape from them.
It's a small thing, but it bothered me that Drummer namechecked Ashford and Naomi but not Fred, who she'd known and been close to for far longer and was also taken out by Marco's people.
I nearly fast-forwarded through the shootout as well; as soon as Discount Michael Kelly and his "security crew" showed up it was pretty clear what was coming and how it was going to play out. That being said, I guess I should've known that convo between Amos and Erich's lieutenant meant she wasn't gonna make it, but it was still upsetting. She feels a lot more memorable than several of the characters we met last season.
As a follow-on from last week's commentary, the lack of info in Naomi's scenes really works for me. Seeing her focus in on a tiny thing like that bare patch of wire in the bomb circuitry and knowing it means *something* to her but having no idea what, then having it slowly piece together over subsequent scenes makes it much more interesting. In the books it's much easier to convey that Naomi is basically an engineering genius, and her scenes on the Chetzemoka feel like the first time the show's had the opportunity to demonstrate that in a similar way.
I understand that this show is bloody expensive to produce and that production quality has gone up since Amazon took over, but watching this episode and knowing there's only one more to wrap everything up really makes me miss the 13-episode seasons with SyFy.
posted by myotahapea at 2:22 AM on January 27, 2021 [10 favorites]
I might have the hots for Drummer.
We all have the hots for Drummer.
posted by myotahapea at 2:51 AM on January 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
We all have the hots for Drummer.
posted by myotahapea at 2:51 AM on January 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
I really admire the character of Drummer, in particular her relationship with Naomi. She clearly loves her and would probably drop everything and everyone to be with her. But Naomi doesn't have the same level of feelings, but does care deeply for Drummer as a friend. Yet she doesn't take advantage of Drummer, and Drummer still flirts a little, to let Naomi know she's still very interested. But still no interest from Naomi, yet they remain friends, people who like and respect one another. It's one of the most mature relationships I've seen on tv. Hell, even Drummer's eye roll about Naomi loving Holden and snarky "Really, him?" is pitch perfect, because Drummer cares so much for Naomi that if she can't be with her, she wants her to have the very very best.
Drummer's relationship with Oksana offers a different take on how she can be, which is great to see. Kind and caring, sure, but in her own way, with feelings not as intense as she has for Naomi, but obviously some love.
Though I laughed when Oksana asked for Drummer's gun, just in case. It's Drummer, she probably has backup piece or several knives and failing that, IT'S DRUMMER. She'll use her bare hands to kill Karal with her bare hands, happily. And really, that's what we all have the hots for at the moment, spacing Karal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:27 AM on January 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
Drummer's relationship with Oksana offers a different take on how she can be, which is great to see. Kind and caring, sure, but in her own way, with feelings not as intense as she has for Naomi, but obviously some love.
Though I laughed when Oksana asked for Drummer's gun, just in case. It's Drummer, she probably has backup piece or several knives and failing that, IT'S DRUMMER. She'll use her bare hands to kill Karal with her bare hands, happily. And really, that's what we all have the hots for at the moment, spacing Karal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:27 AM on January 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
Oh yeah, I didn't realize that Drummer and her crew were in various polyamorous groups. That's pretty cool and makes a certain amount of sense. Small crew, long trips cooped up together, the emotional/familial support makes them stronger as a crew.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:30 AM on January 27, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:30 AM on January 27, 2021
“He’s a fucking paladin”
This is, literally and actually, Holden's origin with the authors.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:33 AM on January 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
This is, literally and actually, Holden's origin with the authors.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:33 AM on January 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
A few minor notes:
1) loved the contrast between Clarissa's confident stride and Amos/Erich/gang's nervousness and tension as they walked up to the house. Clarissa is home, finally, to an environment that she knows and understands and grew up in. Which is going to get several of them killed later on, as she now has the confidence to save the lives of those rent-a-cops.
2) Just noticed that Marco's coveralls are custom-tailored to accentuate his form, because of course they are.
3) again, the writers had no way of knowing what was coming, but Avasarala rejecting the idea of a coup as "treason" sent some shivers down my spine
posted by Mogur at 6:34 AM on January 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
1) loved the contrast between Clarissa's confident stride and Amos/Erich/gang's nervousness and tension as they walked up to the house. Clarissa is home, finally, to an environment that she knows and understands and grew up in. Which is going to get several of them killed later on, as she now has the confidence to save the lives of those rent-a-cops.
2) Just noticed that Marco's coveralls are custom-tailored to accentuate his form, because of course they are.
3) again, the writers had no way of knowing what was coming, but Avasarala rejecting the idea of a coup as "treason" sent some shivers down my spine
posted by Mogur at 6:34 AM on January 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
My favorite moment.
Erich: Where did Timmy find you?posted by kingless at 6:52 AM on January 27, 2021 [17 favorites]
Clarissa: Serving a life sentence for multiple homicides.
Similarly, the moment when Erich's crew gets to Clarissa's kill zone as they retreat into the ship and they realize that she's not just the hippy-dippy rich kid or Amos' tumble buddy they thought she was.
I liked that whole part of the story, to be honest - that you need to grow your tribe in times of trouble, and fight the urge to contract your tribe.
I still watched through the gunfight - I don't trust this show enough to not kill off Clarissa or Amos, or end up with them trapped on the planet even though everybody else got off or whatever, y'know?
One minor nitpick: They were describing the ship as both suborbital and capable of reaching Luna. Which is it, guys? "Sub" orbital means "doesn't quite reach orbit", not "can get a quarter of a million miles out into orbit".
Actually from "Hard Vacuum" last week, but:
"Islands are private enclaves for wealthy people, and each has a hangar with a suborbital shuttle."
"That'll get us to Luna."
And another fantastic week for Dominique Tipper doing a solo show with little to no dialogue and performing plot important activities.
posted by Kyol at 8:44 AM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
I liked that whole part of the story, to be honest - that you need to grow your tribe in times of trouble, and fight the urge to contract your tribe.
I still watched through the gunfight - I don't trust this show enough to not kill off Clarissa or Amos, or end up with them trapped on the planet even though everybody else got off or whatever, y'know?
One minor nitpick: They were describing the ship as both suborbital and capable of reaching Luna. Which is it, guys? "Sub" orbital means "doesn't quite reach orbit", not "can get a quarter of a million miles out into orbit".
Actually from "Hard Vacuum" last week, but:
"Islands are private enclaves for wealthy people, and each has a hangar with a suborbital shuttle."
"That'll get us to Luna."
And another fantastic week for Dominique Tipper doing a solo show with little to no dialogue and performing plot important activities.
posted by Kyol at 8:44 AM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
One minor nitpick: They were describing the ship as both suborbital and capable of reaching Luna. Which is it, guys? "Sub" orbital means "doesn't quite reach orbit", not "can get a quarter of a million miles out into orbit".
Could "suborbital" also mean "only licensed for suborbital", or "only comfortable as a suborbital" or "will probably crash if we go any further than suborbital"? Ie, it'd be like driving a little Smartcar from Alaska to Florida - it's possible, but nobody really wants to do it?
posted by Mogur at 9:44 AM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Could "suborbital" also mean "only licensed for suborbital", or "only comfortable as a suborbital" or "will probably crash if we go any further than suborbital"? Ie, it'd be like driving a little Smartcar from Alaska to Florida - it's possible, but nobody really wants to do it?
posted by Mogur at 9:44 AM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Similarly, the moment when Erich's crew gets to Clarissa's kill zone as they retreat into the ship and they realize that she's not just the hippy-dippy rich kid or Amos' tumble buddy they thought she was.
I think I heard one of them say "I'm going to be a lot nicer to her from now on."
posted by Mogur at 9:45 AM on January 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
I think I heard one of them say "I'm going to be a lot nicer to her from now on."
posted by Mogur at 9:45 AM on January 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
Could "suborbital" also mean "only licensed for suborbital", or "only comfortable as a suborbital" or "will probably crash if we go any further than suborbital"?
One sense of suborbital is "designed mainly to reach space but not complete an orbit" — in other words, the shuttle exits the atmosphere but isn't intended to orbit. Such a craft might be capable of more though its primary purpose is "short hops."
posted by axiom at 10:24 AM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
One sense of suborbital is "designed mainly to reach space but not complete an orbit" — in other words, the shuttle exits the atmosphere but isn't intended to orbit. Such a craft might be capable of more though its primary purpose is "short hops."
posted by axiom at 10:24 AM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Great, now I'm going to be up all night wondering what the show meant by "suborbital".
Probably a mistake in the script, but WHAT IF IT'S NOT?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:09 AM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Probably a mistake in the script, but WHAT IF IT'S NOT?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:09 AM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
My theory boils down to world views - an ultrarich softie looks at that ship and sees 90-minute hop in comparative luxury; Amos looks at it and sees that it would be uncomfortable-but-livable for three or four days; and I assume a real rockhopper would be working out how to live in it for a couple of months while they tooled it back to Callisto.
posted by Mogur at 11:22 AM on January 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 11:22 AM on January 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
Suborbital viewed by people who usually use shuttles to go between orbital destinations could mean it's able to enter suborbital trajectories from orbit. ie has a heatshield, and atmospheric controls. And if you like that explanation, I also have a ship that can make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.
And another fantastic week for Dominique Tipper doing a solo show with little to no dialogue and performing plot important activities.
Delivered from under a thick layer of special-effects makeup too.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 11:59 AM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
And another fantastic week for Dominique Tipper doing a solo show with little to no dialogue and performing plot important activities.
Delivered from under a thick layer of special-effects makeup too.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 11:59 AM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
The pacing on the first 3 seasons was so fast it is pretty amazing to go through each episode and all of the things that happened in them - like each season basically had 2 main arcs plus all the individual threads. The last two have dialed it back so we only get the 1 main arc which gives everything a bit more time to breathe. If we could take an episode or two out of season 4 and 5 and put them into seasons 1-3 the series would likely be better off for it but there were no guarantees there would be a season 4 or 5 at that time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:31 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:31 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Great, now I'm going to be up all night wondering what the show meant by "suborbital".
Sub-orbit is where the shuttle's a Viking.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:41 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
Sub-orbit is where the shuttle's a Viking.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:41 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
I do think that in this 'verse, where you can talk about taking trips to the Belt or the Outer Planets, "sub-orbital" might plausibly and colloquially expand to include "within Earth's orbit," i.e. all the way out to Luna.
Or we're all just overthinking a plate of red kibble.
posted by stevis23 at 12:45 PM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Or we're all just overthinking a plate of red kibble.
posted by stevis23 at 12:45 PM on January 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
A Cessna 150 is technically capable of transcontinental travel.
posted by whuppy at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
What was that hissy syringe-like tool Amos used on the floating body just after the stolen shuttle took off? He took it from a box mounted next to the shuttle's interior door and replaced it there straight afterwards.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:58 PM on January 27, 2021
posted by Paul Slade at 12:58 PM on January 27, 2021
I thought it was something to close the wounds so that blood wouldn't seep out and make a mess of things in zero-G. But I also just figured that the "body" was just injured and not dead so what do I know.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:23 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:23 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
it bothered me that Drummer namechecked Ashford and Naomi but not Fred, who she'd known and been close to for far longer
But Fred was an Earther, and though he gave everything for the Belt, it still made a difference where he came from.
This season IS weird. All the Roci crew is apart, so the pacing is a little herky-jerky. This is one of those things that works better in a novel where you can give each person a chapter and deal them around in order. On TV you have to give everyone a bit of screen time every week while keeping an overall pace to each episode. They've made it work, but it's not ideal.
The Big Idea this season is Rocks Fall on Earth and the aftermath, and I feel like they've done a great job with that. It would be tempting to make it a horrorshow Disaster Movie, but they've soft-pedaled the effects somewhat and focused on individual characters rather than broad sweep. They showed enough for us to know it's bad, and to know that it's worse than they're telling us. And given 2020-2021, it feels wise to not overplay that. (I knew what was coming and worried if this season would even be watchable!) Besides, Naomi has always been the one in the most immediate danger. And the personal history and politics and acting there has all been astounding.
Some people, I guess, have complained on Twitter that the Protomolecule and the Ring and all the magic sci-fi stuff has fallen off the radar this season, but I don't miss it. I DO miss having the gang together, and I hope the season finale will at least get them that far. Does Marco survive into next season? I don't know. They have a lot to wrap up in 10 episodes. (I also miss the 13-ep seasons, which also allowed them to shift from the first seaon's half-book arc to finish book 3 by the end of season 3.) I hear they start filming season 6 tomorrow!
posted by rikschell at 1:26 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
But Fred was an Earther, and though he gave everything for the Belt, it still made a difference where he came from.
This season IS weird. All the Roci crew is apart, so the pacing is a little herky-jerky. This is one of those things that works better in a novel where you can give each person a chapter and deal them around in order. On TV you have to give everyone a bit of screen time every week while keeping an overall pace to each episode. They've made it work, but it's not ideal.
The Big Idea this season is Rocks Fall on Earth and the aftermath, and I feel like they've done a great job with that. It would be tempting to make it a horrorshow Disaster Movie, but they've soft-pedaled the effects somewhat and focused on individual characters rather than broad sweep. They showed enough for us to know it's bad, and to know that it's worse than they're telling us. And given 2020-2021, it feels wise to not overplay that. (I knew what was coming and worried if this season would even be watchable!) Besides, Naomi has always been the one in the most immediate danger. And the personal history and politics and acting there has all been astounding.
Some people, I guess, have complained on Twitter that the Protomolecule and the Ring and all the magic sci-fi stuff has fallen off the radar this season, but I don't miss it. I DO miss having the gang together, and I hope the season finale will at least get them that far. Does Marco survive into next season? I don't know. They have a lot to wrap up in 10 episodes. (I also miss the 13-ep seasons, which also allowed them to shift from the first seaon's half-book arc to finish book 3 by the end of season 3.) I hear they start filming season 6 tomorrow!
posted by rikschell at 1:26 PM on January 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
What was that hissy syringe-like tool Amos used on the floating body just after the stolen shuttle took off? He took it from a box mounted next to the shuttle's interior door and replaced it there straight afterwards.
Self-sealing stem bolts. For the reason any portmanteau in a storm said.
posted by Kyol at 1:28 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Self-sealing stem bolts. For the reason any portmanteau in a storm said.
posted by Kyol at 1:28 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
So, basically, the fate of the entire planetary system is substantially riding on what happens with Naomi - one engineering genius who several people have the hots for.
My comment to my spouse when we were watching and the guards starting coming in to where Clarissa was - "They think she's a regular human. They are wrong."
posted by rmd1023 at 4:40 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
My comment to my spouse when we were watching and the guards starting coming in to where Clarissa was - "They think she's a regular human. They are wrong."
posted by rmd1023 at 4:40 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
When the suborbital takes off it clearly is going to do a number on the building it is in and the estate (you briefly see the blast from the engines destroy the chimneys and roof tiles off the house as well as roasting the launch bay area).
Seems like having your own suborbital is a use it once deal - cos it’s going to completely fuck up your property. Is that right or is there another explanation?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:23 PM on January 27, 2021
Seems like having your own suborbital is a use it once deal - cos it’s going to completely fuck up your property. Is that right or is there another explanation?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:23 PM on January 27, 2021
They mentioned that "it hasn't been used in two years", so presumably it got used before then. Maybe there are blast doors that should have been closed and venting tunnels that should have been opened?
posted by Mogur at 5:27 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 5:27 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe though you’d think that would be automated as part of the launch sequence - which yeah I mean dude punched the launch button early but seems like a big mistake you could override all that with one button. Also at the 41:42 mark you clearly see a tree next to the launch silo catch fire (why would you plant trees next to the silo - which would catch fire and potentially turn into shrapnel) and the house is very close - which even with underground venting is going to be subject to massive damage once the suborbital is above ground. Not buying it - I’d want my launch vehicle *miles* from any other structure.
Edit: Let alone the small matter of how you get the suborbital back into the silo for reuse after each ride without having to rebuild your house every flight...
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:34 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Edit: Let alone the small matter of how you get the suborbital back into the silo for reuse after each ride without having to rebuild your house every flight...
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:34 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think there's typically a low-power rocket to upper atmo before they kick in the fusion drive. But Erich says "fuck it" and engages the fusion drive while they're on the ground.
posted by rikschell at 5:36 PM on January 27, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:36 PM on January 27, 2021 [14 favorites]
Yeah I definitely got more of a "this will be a cool visual" vibe than "we have thought through all the implications" with that blast-off.
posted by axiom at 5:38 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by axiom at 5:38 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Wait, no, I just remembered - a proper takeoff could be with thrusters only, probably until they're maybe a mile up, and *then* fire up the main drive. We saw the Roci come down from orbit on thrusters alone, and presumably would be able to go back up again. This thing was a civilian craft, so of course not as overpowered as the Roci, but it still might be able to lift enough to get clear of the house (and the neighbour's houses...).
That would be risky, though, since Erich/Amos/Clarissa aren't sure how well the ship was working - and Erich was certainly not in a forgiving mood, either - so they went straight to the fusion drive.
posted by Mogur at 5:38 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
That would be risky, though, since Erich/Amos/Clarissa aren't sure how well the ship was working - and Erich was certainly not in a forgiving mood, either - so they went straight to the fusion drive.
posted by Mogur at 5:38 PM on January 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
On reading - jinx!
posted by Mogur at 5:39 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 5:39 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
From about 7:13 to 7:24 you see the overhead shot of the house and hanger. Hanger looks to be maybe 200-300 meters at most from the house...and about 50 meters from a mature tree line that clearly wasn't just grown in the 2 years since last launch (admittedly scale hard to determine - did some rough guesswork) I'm not convinced that a shuttle that small is going to have thrusters that can lift a multi-ton ship off the ground with out a very significant blast......I mean if you've seen the blast from a small Rocket Labs Electron Launch - which has a payload of like 150kg....you wouldn't want your house that close....let alone something with enough thrust to lift multiple tons....but I guess hand wavy future tech......and at least the aerial shows *some* open ground around the hanger
Blah...you kids can get off my lawn with your fancy thrusters.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:03 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Blah...you kids can get off my lawn with your fancy thrusters.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:03 PM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
There is a neat article on the filming of the shuttle sequence that goes into detail of the locations used - well worth a read. Apparently temps outside were down as low as -34f for parts of the shoot.
Also the Shuttle is named the Reveta Bowers as a tribute to the episode Director’s former elementary school Head.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:33 PM on January 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
Also the Shuttle is named the Reveta Bowers as a tribute to the episode Director’s former elementary school Head.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:33 PM on January 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
We saw the Roci come down from orbit on thrusters alone, and presumably would be able to go back up again
I mean, maybe. Though on an atmospheric planet those two operations are about as asymmetrical as it is possible to get. Delta V to low Earth orbit is 9.4km/s plus drag and gravity losses. The Shuttle deorbited for 90m/s and change.
I like the idea that it's supposed to take off on thrusters, and get some height and distance, before lighting the main drive. That should limit the local downwash to something more like a similarly sized helicopter.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:58 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, maybe. Though on an atmospheric planet those two operations are about as asymmetrical as it is possible to get. Delta V to low Earth orbit is 9.4km/s plus drag and gravity losses. The Shuttle deorbited for 90m/s and change.
I like the idea that it's supposed to take off on thrusters, and get some height and distance, before lighting the main drive. That should limit the local downwash to something more like a similarly sized helicopter.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:58 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
to me it looked like the thousand islands around kingston, but that’s just a visual guess
posted by sixswitch at 8:42 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 8:42 PM on January 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Apparently the aerial shots of the Lake Winnipesaukee homes were around Lake Muskoka, and the actual estate used for the battle was on "ranch land with no major bodies of water nearby" .
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
On rewatch, there are a few things that stand out:
Amos making some sort of peace with his background? Question mark because I'm not sure he was ever not at peace with it, but his last look at Earth had certain something in it. Glad to have gotten out and remembering that? Possibly just a reminder of how his life could have gone, in comparison to that one kid that was shot at the end, who was hoping to finally get out of Baltimore
Clarrissa spent most of the episode trying not to kill people, then kills a whole bunch of people.
Avasarala came to terms with her husband's death and is getting back to the work she clearly loves and is very capable of doing.
Marco puts some final manipulation touches on Phillipe, to prepare him for the killing of Naomi.
Naomi has one last trick up her sleeve. Which is odd, why didn't she mention "trap" in her broadcast? 'cause she's clearly not in control of when the bombs go off.
Drummer, hopefully, is gearing up to do some major damage.
Alex, Bobby, Hold and the Roci are still "burning hard" to Naomi.
Proto molecule is...somewhere.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 AM on January 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Amos making some sort of peace with his background? Question mark because I'm not sure he was ever not at peace with it, but his last look at Earth had certain something in it. Glad to have gotten out and remembering that? Possibly just a reminder of how his life could have gone, in comparison to that one kid that was shot at the end, who was hoping to finally get out of Baltimore
Clarrissa spent most of the episode trying not to kill people, then kills a whole bunch of people.
Avasarala came to terms with her husband's death and is getting back to the work she clearly loves and is very capable of doing.
Marco puts some final manipulation touches on Phillipe, to prepare him for the killing of Naomi.
Naomi has one last trick up her sleeve. Which is odd, why didn't she mention "trap" in her broadcast? 'cause she's clearly not in control of when the bombs go off.
Drummer, hopefully, is gearing up to do some major damage.
Alex, Bobby, Hold and the Roci are still "burning hard" to Naomi.
Proto molecule is...somewhere.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 AM on January 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Naomi has one last trick up her sleeve. Which is odd, why didn't she mention "trap" in her broadcast?
Because she can only delete words in the recorded message (by shorting the circuit to prevent some words being sent). So she can’t add words. She changed it to be contradictory be removing certain words - which worked - both the crew of the Razorback and the Roci are questioning why the message changed and that the changes can’t be random.
Proto molecule is...somewhere.
Yeah seems to be a pretty big question what happened to it. I like the speculation on the last episode thread that it was in one of the torpedos launched at the Roci but that went a different direction for retrieval later. But yes given how important the protocol molecule is to Marco’s plan - if he did have the core offload it before they destroyed the ship you’d be expecting him to be hard burning towards it to collect it.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:39 AM on January 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
Because she can only delete words in the recorded message (by shorting the circuit to prevent some words being sent). So she can’t add words. She changed it to be contradictory be removing certain words - which worked - both the crew of the Razorback and the Roci are questioning why the message changed and that the changes can’t be random.
Proto molecule is...somewhere.
Yeah seems to be a pretty big question what happened to it. I like the speculation on the last episode thread that it was in one of the torpedos launched at the Roci but that went a different direction for retrieval later. But yes given how important the protocol molecule is to Marco’s plan - if he did have the core offload it before they destroyed the ship you’d be expecting him to be hard burning towards it to collect it.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:39 AM on January 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
Because she can only delete words in the recorded message (by shorting the circuit to prevent some words being sent). So she can’t add words. She changed it to be contradictory be removing certain words - which worked - both the crew of the Razorback and the Roci are questioning why the message changed and that the changes can’t be random.
Thank you for pointing that out!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:50 AM on January 28, 2021
Thank you for pointing that out!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:50 AM on January 28, 2021
Naomi has one last trick up her sleeve. Which is odd, why didn't she mention "trap" in her broadcast?
Because she can only delete words in the recorded message (by shorting the circuit to prevent some words being sent). So she can’t add words. She changed it to be contradictory be removing certain words - which worked - both the crew of the Razorback and the Roci are questioning why the message changed and that the changes can’t be random.
I love this whole sequence. It works as:
1) A great character moment for Naomi.
2) A great relationship moment for everyone who knows her. Her friends aren't sure what it means, Marco knows right away, and we're left wondering if Holden will understand too. The ticking bomb cliffhanger is plenty tense on its own, but that added dangling relationship tension is what brings it over the line between "good" and "great."
3) Further worldbuilding for The Expanse's already deeply realized, grimy and practical conception of space travel and the technology in general. This isn't a tidy crawl into a Jeffries Tube, but another cramped utility closet of a ship, full of panels that must be banged opened, wires that must be yanked out, stripped, and twisted together.
4) An excellent visual metaphor for editing and debugging for every writer and programmer in the audience to savor and relate to. Any mechanic, any editor, any coder who has ever driven themselves half insane trying to find where they need to cut out what had several opportunities for catharsis these last two episodes.
Sure I've read the books, so I have a general shape I expect this story to take through the finale, but geez, if anyone still considers having read the books as a full inoculation against the shocks of this show, I have a bridge on Tycho station I'd like to sell them.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:31 PM on January 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
Because she can only delete words in the recorded message (by shorting the circuit to prevent some words being sent). So she can’t add words. She changed it to be contradictory be removing certain words - which worked - both the crew of the Razorback and the Roci are questioning why the message changed and that the changes can’t be random.
I love this whole sequence. It works as:
1) A great character moment for Naomi.
2) A great relationship moment for everyone who knows her. Her friends aren't sure what it means, Marco knows right away, and we're left wondering if Holden will understand too. The ticking bomb cliffhanger is plenty tense on its own, but that added dangling relationship tension is what brings it over the line between "good" and "great."
3) Further worldbuilding for The Expanse's already deeply realized, grimy and practical conception of space travel and the technology in general. This isn't a tidy crawl into a Jeffries Tube, but another cramped utility closet of a ship, full of panels that must be banged opened, wires that must be yanked out, stripped, and twisted together.
4) An excellent visual metaphor for editing and debugging for every writer and programmer in the audience to savor and relate to. Any mechanic, any editor, any coder who has ever driven themselves half insane trying to find where they need to cut out what had several opportunities for catharsis these last two episodes.
Sure I've read the books, so I have a general shape I expect this story to take through the finale, but geez, if anyone still considers having read the books as a full inoculation against the shocks of this show, I have a bridge on Tycho station I'd like to sell them.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:31 PM on January 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
My head cannon is that normally for rich people's orbital shuttles there's an elaborate loading and launch sequence. But they were in a hurry, so some damage may result.
posted by happyroach at 3:52 PM on January 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 3:52 PM on January 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
> Just noticed that Marco's coveralls are custom-tailored to accentuate his form, because of course they are.
Mr Corpse and I noticed his outfit, too. I haven't gone back to check, but I wonder if they're getting more flashy (by Belter standards) as he becomes more of a dictator. Has he always worn his collar flipped up?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:02 PM on January 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mr Corpse and I noticed his outfit, too. I haven't gone back to check, but I wonder if they're getting more flashy (by Belter standards) as he becomes more of a dictator. Has he always worn his collar flipped up?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:02 PM on January 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
I got it... sub-orbital means *sub solar orbital* as in, cannot orbit the sun and thereby reach other planets.
posted by rebent at 7:08 PM on January 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by rebent at 7:08 PM on January 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
The Naomi scenes the last two episodes have been almost too well acted and filmed. I'm just finding them tough to watch.
posted by mark k at 10:25 PM on January 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by mark k at 10:25 PM on January 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
I was on the edge of my seat throughout the episode. Not one moment of boredom for me. I'm so gripped by Naomi's storyline. And also, watching Clarissa try to keep everyone alive, and then finally have to kill people to save others. I loved it.
posted by rednikki at 11:29 PM on January 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 11:29 PM on January 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I hope these last couple of episodes net Dominque Tipper a hatful of acting gongs when awards season comes around. She certainly deserves them.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:25 AM on January 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 5:25 AM on January 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
What time and day are new episodes posted?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:21 AM on January 29, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:21 AM on January 29, 2021
On Amazon they're supposed to show up on Wednesday but end up dropping Tuesday night if you're in North America, I think because of time zones. Posts come on Fanfare at roughly the same time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:29 AM on January 29, 2021
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:29 AM on January 29, 2021
Yes, Dominque Tippeer said it is 00:00 UTC Wednesday. So that is Tuesday night in North America.
posted by bdc34 at 9:07 AM on January 29, 2021
posted by bdc34 at 9:07 AM on January 29, 2021
*cries in "but I'm off all day, why I gotta wait?!"*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:09 AM on January 29, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:09 AM on January 29, 2021
Yes, new episodes Tuesdays at 4:00PM PST/7:00PM EST. I've been creating the new posts soon afterwards copying and pasting the episodes' description.
posted by ShooBoo at 9:39 AM on January 29, 2021
posted by ShooBoo at 9:39 AM on January 29, 2021
Was just reading an interview with Tipper where she described some of her prep, including getting medical briefings and using a 0-10 pain scale for each shot. They were meticulous about how Naomi would feel physically at each point in the episode.
posted by Mogur at 11:12 AM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 11:12 AM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
The Expanse Aftershow Season 5 Episode 9: Wes Chatham, Ty Franck & Nadine Nicole
posted by ShooBoo at 8:00 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ShooBoo at 8:00 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's now a comic book based on The Expanse. Boom Studios' four-issue mini series is set between seasons four and five of the show, and had two issues out already. No doubt there'll be a collected volume at some point.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:08 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:08 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I really enjoyed the island security team's attempt to intimidate, only to find that the intruders weren't intimidated. I don't understand why they'd shoot at the ship, though.
Paraphrasing Erich:
That is one of the worst shakedown attempts I've ever seen. You must be new at this.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:12 AM on January 31, 2021 [5 favorites]
Paraphrasing Erich:
That is one of the worst shakedown attempts I've ever seen. You must be new at this.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:12 AM on January 31, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just rewatched this and I had to say that I loved it, because it is primarily character stuff and that's what I'm here for. I especially enjoyed the little touches of humor, like Amos's muttered "shut up" at Erich before he can complain about Amos telling the other people to be there on time for the shuttle, and Clarissa and Erich's conversation about "Peaches" and "Timmy": "Do I want to ask?" "I wouldn't." And that great scene between the Admiral and Avasarala with the resolution of the unfunny-by-now joke.
I can't wait to see what Drummer does this week. I don't know how they can possibly wrap this up in one episode.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 7:55 PM on February 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I can't wait to see what Drummer does this week. I don't know how they can possibly wrap this up in one episode.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 7:55 PM on February 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
It’s killing me that i gotta wait 11 hours for the finale. It’s going to kill me some more later on , knowing l have to wait a year for season 6.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:50 AM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:50 AM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Wait, there's going to be a Season 6?? I thought the series was ending with this season.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:25 AM on February 2, 2021
posted by rmd1023 at 8:25 AM on February 2, 2021
No, 6 will be the last season — on Amazon, at least. I believe the producers have said they would keep going if they could find a new place to make them, but that seems like a long shot. (Only Netflix and Amazon spend this kind of money for this kind of return.)
posted by chimpsonfilm at 12:42 PM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by chimpsonfilm at 12:42 PM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Here's a question, possibly for folks who've read the books -- are we supposed to be seeing Earth in a post-apocalyptic nuclear winter, or is is just winter in the northern hemisphere that they are traveling through?
I had assumed nuclear winter until this episode, when they had a sunny day on the island, which took me out of the mood at that moment.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:15 AM on February 3, 2021
I had assumed nuclear winter until this episode, when they had a sunny day on the island, which took me out of the mood at that moment.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:15 AM on February 3, 2021
Is it weird that Clarissa doesn't know why Amos calls her Peaches* and hasn't bothered to find out? They were walking together for at least a couple of days and she never bothered to ask?
* It's from Peach Melba right?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2021
* It's from Peach Melba right?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2021
What's the peach melba reference? Is that something other than ice cream?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:41 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:41 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Melba was the alias she used when she showed up in season 3 to take down the Roci. So Amos calls her Peaches because what else goes with Melba? It was either Peaches or Toasty I guess.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:45 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:45 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ah, I'd forgotten about -- or blocked -- that she went by Melba.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:50 PM on February 5, 2021
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:50 PM on February 5, 2021
Here's a question, possibly for folks who've read the books -- are we supposed to be seeing Earth in a post-apocalyptic nuclear winter, or is is just winter in the northern hemisphere that they are traveling through?
Yes; in the books the environmental impact of the rocks is far more explicitly clear - global level climate change, to the point that Earth requires food to be brought in from other parts of the solar system until things settle out.
posted by nubs at 11:08 AM on July 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes; in the books the environmental impact of the rocks is far more explicitly clear - global level climate change, to the point that Earth requires food to be brought in from other parts of the solar system until things settle out.
posted by nubs at 11:08 AM on July 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
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I dig the design of Erich's pistol.
And the "EMPTY" stencils on the compressed fuel tanks they use as cover in the gunfight.
posted by porpoise at 6:19 PM on January 26, 2021 [5 favorites]