Star Trek: Picard: Farewell
May 5, 2022 6:24 AM - Season 2, Episode 10 - Subscribe

As Adam Soong's plan comes to fruition, Jean-Luc and his allies face the future, the past, and old friends long gone. (Season finale.)

It's taken you so long to find out you were wrong when you thought Memory Alpha held everything:

• Wil Wheaton (Wesley Crusher) was last seen in Trek at the beginning of Star Trek Nemesis during William T. Riker and Deanna Troi's wedding. Most of his scenes from this movie were cut, but they can be found on the Special Edition DVD. According to his blog, in 2009, Wheaton returned to the Star Trek franchise when he voiced members of Nero's Romulan crew in J.J. Abrams' Star Trek, among others the one played by Joe Quinto. Wheaton now hosts The Ready Room, the official Star Trek aftershow interview series.

• The main title theme from First Contact can briefly be heard during Jean-Luc's toast.

"Humans—your griefs, your pains fix you to moments in the past long gone. You're like butterflies with your wings pinned."
- Q

Poster's Log:
One of the common remarks in previous FF threads about this season has been (accessing polite word) concern about how a season this all-over-the-place could possibly tie things together in a satisfying fashion, and whether it might decide not to try and just be a season 3 cliffhanger. The latter didn't really come to pass, thankfully—Vague Cosmic Fire-Beam Threat being vague and all—and I gotta say, a great deal of the loose-end-tying worked for me:

- Q loved JL all along: I'm here for that. It makes sense, it fits the characters, and it's satisfying. It doesn't quite resolve Q's big "You'll find out" tease in his final TNG appearance, although maybe that's a matter of interpretation. (Also: why is Q dressed like a member of Section 31?)
- Wes!!: Naturally, he would have been keeping an eye on the goings-on herein. And it's kind of a big deal that Wil Wheaton returned, given how shitty so many aspects of his TNG experience were (case in point: the not-good episode he left the show on, in which he joined the Travelers Group). Why Wes didn't pop in again to say hi during, say, the bar scene at the end, I don't know—his scene here feels really detached—but I can guess Covid.
- The Travelers were the ones behind the Supervisors (Tallinn, Gary Seven): Makes perfect sense.
- Adam Soong has a (presumably major) role in the Eugenics Wars: Again, makes sense, though it's a few decades late w/r/t prior canon. Not a hill to die on, though. At least they did SOMEthing with the Eugenics Wars.
- Rios staying behind: I'm mad because I like the performer and the character so much, but story-wise—or maybe just mood-wise—I can live with it. (His whole "I never fit" argument, though—I mean, he DID get his commission back, and he DID rise to friggin' Captain!) Jean-Luc is in big trouble with DTI for letting him stay, though; I would love it if season 3 opened with the return of Dulmur and Lucsly, chewing him out.
- Jean-Laris, and Q's lesson about being loved: Someone in a previous thread felt it was shitty that the show was seeming to suggest that everybody needs an S.O. to be complete. That's of course a valid concern, but I guess I interpret Jean-Luc as having always wanted an S.O. but being too career-focused (and, as TNG established and this season examined, closed-off) to actually make it happen. I'd guess also that, for viewers of a certain age (more "certain" than mine), there's a nice "it's never too late" element to that storyline's resolution here.
- The Seven-Raffi moment right after their kiss: Good, fitting character stuff.
- The closing Guinan scene: Necessary and satisfying. And a better use of First Contact's music than First Contact's.

Less satisfying to me were
- Tallinn's (unearned IMO) emotional subplot regarding Renee / Renee's motivation for becoming an astronaut: I assume this was included to inject more pathos into Tallinn's death scene.
- Tallinn "had" to die: Why, because Adam Soong is that plot-invincible? Do Supervisors believe in predestination or something?
- Kore merits promotion to Traveler status: …why?
- The Europa plot resolving offscreen: I kind of wanted to witness this big discovery.
- How Jurati's story arc ends: Predictable from pretty early in the season, and sort of lacking in heft since we still don't know what Latest Cosmic Stream-Trek Threat is at all*. Interestingly, Alison Pill isn't returning in season 3.
(* = The reference to transwarp may mean it's of Borg origin, which could suggest a Good Borg/Bad Borg civil war, but that's unlikely if Pill's not returning.)

I'm optimistic that Jean-Luc's line about "Better to look forward" means season 3 will not be full of time-travel. It's weird to think back on how much I liked PIC season 1 on first watch and how, on rewatch, I didn't find much at all to revise my opinion downward (it's maybe too dark). I doubt this season will age quite as well, but it didn't end on the wet fart I feared.

Poster's Log, Supplemental:
The lyrics of "Non, je ne regrette rien" translated into English.

"It sure sounds like Seven of Nine may be 86'ed in Picard season 3" (RedShirtsAlwaysDie.com)

Star Trek: The Next Generation Cast Return in Picard Season 3 Are Not Just Cameos (comicbook.com)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil (63 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
No explanation for why/how Q is dying, why he considers himself alone even though he has a son, where the rest of the Q Continuum are and why they aren't helping. Tallinn died because JL needed more women to be fridged so he could be sad about it. No explanation about why Tallinn looks and sounds exactly like Laris and nobody seems to find this weird. Soong somehow got from rural France to California ahead of the futuristic travellers who could teleport and there's no explanation. Guinan doing the plot wrap up and revealing that of course she knew all along and couldn't say anything because of "spoilers" (ugh). Queen Agnes of Borg hid out for 400 years for.. reasons, and then something something another vague universal threat.

I'm glad I didn't have any hopes or expectations for this episode because they would have been thoroughly disappointed. I wanted to really love this season after enjoying so much of the first one, but what a crap, boring, whimper of an ending.
posted by fight or flight at 7:25 AM on May 5 [10 favorites]


Wait, did Picard really try to fix his relationship with Laris with a Picard Speech? That makes no sense. The whole point of a Picard Speech is "I am an inspirational leader!" But romantic relationships have partners, not leaders (ideally). There's no role for a Picard Speech here, Jean-Luc - just say "I fucked up, I'm sorry, and I want you quite badly."
posted by Mr. Excellent at 11:09 AM on May 5 [6 favorites]


I thought it was more than a bit cheeseball, but I didn't hate it. It wasn't great TV, but it was perfectly fine.

I think one of the reasons the recent Trek series have been so polarizing is that they are presented and filmed as if they are supposed to be top tier prestige TV drama when they really just aren't most of the time. That leads to people being super disappointed when things are just fine. Yeah, a lot of shit doesn't really make sense or gets wrapped up too neatly or gets dropped on the floor, but that's how the vast majority of TV and films are. That's how Trek used to be.

What sticks in our minds from past series are the episodes that transcend the form and managed to be incredibly thought provoking, prescient, or just well constructed, but most of the episodes were never that. The better episodes had their moments of greatness, the best episodes were tight and compelling drama, but most of them were just fine. (And there were a few stinkers, too!) When we compare something against our nostalgia, it's almost certain to come up short.

It was pretty hardcore fanservice, but I got a kick out of Wil Wheaton's brief appearance. I would have found it more appropriate for his departure to have involved him phasing out of existence rather than it looking like he beamed up to some spaceship, but whatever. SFX changes.
posted by wierdo at 11:15 AM on May 5 [9 favorites]


I thought this episode did about as well as it could given everything that happened before. It tied up all of the loose ends a bit too neatly but I'm assuming that's so that we don't need to see any of the non-Picard characters next season.

In my mind I decided that when the series was being developed no one was sure how successful it would be so they gave all of the other characters an option to come back for a second season if one was made. S1 met whatever targets they had to go ahead with S2, but they also realized that the parts where Picard interacted with Riker and Troi were by far the best, and now they had to figure out how to get rid of all the new people so that they could do a proper ST:TNG reunion for S3.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:16 AM on May 5


I thought Kore made a good time agent recruit because she's (a) got the Soong brilliance minus the morals deficiency and (b) she wasn't supposed to survive this timeline so removing her won't ruin anything. On second thought though, the "only recruiting people who can be safely removed from time" should really not apply to Wesley so I don't even know.

I still kind of think Tallin was Laris after having retired from service with Picard and having been sent back in time, but that theory also has some holes in it.
posted by Karmakaze at 12:56 PM on May 5


They got me with the Q hug and as soon as I realised they had I was angry at them.

...I want a Q hug.
posted by Molesome at 1:04 PM on May 5 [15 favorites]


did anyone else think it was weird how after Kore hung up the phone it started playing “Wake Up” by Rage Against the Machine and then she flew away
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:20 PM on May 5 [5 favorites]


I'd ask some plot related questions about why things happened in this episode, but the writers clearly didn't care about internal consistency or logic, so why should I expend the effort?

I am nervous about season three. I want to enjoy the Next Gen crew coming back together. But if this sort of nonsense plotting and garbage character work is what I should expect, I'm going to approach with extreme caution.

Anyway, a much better Star Trek show premiered today. I think I'd rather spend my time enjoying that than bitching about Picard.
posted by crossoverman at 5:19 PM on May 5


I like how this tied up, well yeah, yeah I did. I am not sure what the hole Jurati leaves in time, will mean. She created and killed in the first season, so the other expert on artificial life, does what she did, and Picard still gets a non-human life? Questions, I enjoyed the wrap up. I can't wait for the next season.
posted by Oyéah at 5:49 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]


so yeah at least they ended the season with the last 10–15 minutes of a Star Trek show, bookending the way the first episode contains the first half of a Star Trek show

shame they spent ten episodes on what would have been a mid-tier TNG two-parter, but, well, I have heard good things about Strange New Worlds, like that the premise of the show was "what if we made a Star Trek show"

given the thematic throughlines of the first two seasons, though, it feels like the third season is going to be about either "Picard's old crewmates are getting old and dying" or "Picard is getting old and dying," but also there will presumably be tiny little crumbs thrown to the DS9 knowers along the way, but without anything of substance
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:56 PM on May 5 [2 favorites]


also Mrs. Fedora felt indignantly cheated that we did not get a great big smooch between Q and Picard
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:57 PM on May 5 [6 favorites]


I'm pretty much in line with everything that COB says above WRT the good and not-so-good points. I was sort of expecting/sort of hoping that we might see a Rios-led Stargazer show as a spin-off/continuation of PIC. Tallinn's getting fridged was bogus, but Kore ditching Soong instead of dying like all of her "sisters" was good, and I'm glad that they gave her something to do in the end instead of just being yet another Soong project. I also like that Wesley got some decent closure, as well.

In a way, this series has become sort of a one-stop wrapping-up service for previous Trek characters either given unsatisfactory send-offs (even Guinan, who didn't get a great one, whether you count Generations, Nemesis, or her last regular TNG episode) or none whatsoever. That's how I'd project S3 going; either the remaining legacy TNG characters die, or they get something to do. I'd like to see an ongoing Trek series in this early 25th century setting, but it doesn't necessarily need to have all-new characters. (I would like them to keep Seven and Raffi together though, and I'd also like to see the future adventures of Space Murder Elf.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:45 PM on May 5


I really enjoyed the scene between Picard and Q, and it had some nice resonance with the final scene between Picard and Data in S1. I have never really enjoyed Q in Trek at all, but I actually felt that for just a moment he was real and not just Gene Roddenberry's One Trick Pony.

Also, I would like to run away with Orla Brady.
posted by briank at 6:57 PM on May 5 [2 favorites]


Honestly I loved it, it was completely dumb in the best possible Trek way and can you really be a Trekkie if you’re not here for the dumb

Tying random bits of canon together unnecessarily? Check
Weird random cameo? Check
Characters making insane decisions like staying on a dying Earth about to go through a century of war and deprivation? Check

A+, just amazing stuff here
posted by rhymedirective at 8:07 PM on May 5 [9 favorites]


can you really be a Trekkie if you’re not here for the dumb

The original show is camp and the pacing is glacial - but that's 60s TV. 90s Trek had bad episodes because no one could make 26 great episodes year on year. Some of the ongoing character threads in DS9 are wild because as much as I love ongoing narratives, it's hard to find new wrinkles in characters after seven seasons. I rolled my eyes at the time. I skip episodes of the older shows now because I want to get to the good stuff.

But, no, I'm not here for the dumb.

Tying random bits of canon together unnecessarily? Check
Weird random cameo? Check
Characters making insane decisions like staying on a dying Earth about to go through a century of war and deprivation? Check


I'm glad you enjoy this but I don't consider this to be a hallmark of Trek. Tying bits of canon together used to be done really judiciously. ENT resolved some weird continuity things in kind of ingenious ways. This season has felt like continuity in a blender.

For all the talk of "be careful of butterflies" at the start of the season, this season CHANGED THE BORG INTO NICE GUYS. The entire timeline has been altered. ARGH.
posted by crossoverman at 8:24 PM on May 5 [6 favorites]


I'm glad you enjoy this but I don't consider this to be a hallmark of Trek. Tying bits of canon together used to be done really judiciously. ENT resolved some weird continuity things in kind of ingenious ways.

Yeah, that Enterprise, the show that told us that the Klingons looked like humans in grease paint in TOS bc a Soong that looks exactly like Brent Spiner was playing around with augment DNA
posted by rhymedirective at 8:27 PM on May 5


Yeah, that Enterprise, the show that told us that the Klingons looked like humans in grease paint in TOS bc a Soong that looks exactly like Brent Spiner was playing around with augment DNA

Better than Brent Spiner pulling a folder out of a draw labelled KHAAAAAAAN.
posted by crossoverman at 8:31 PM on May 5 [14 favorites]


Surely they didn't change all Borg. Jurati's collective was picking up strays while the regular Borg were still assimilating as always.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:49 PM on May 5 [7 favorites]


I know that it's a dumb thing to get hung up on, and really incredibly minor, in a season full of weird plot holes/poorly explained things, but....what is the point of putting astronauts in quarantine if they then break quarantine on the last day? If you're just gonna let random potentially-contagious donors chat them up right before they leave then why bother with quarantining them at all?

Anyways, I was pleased to see Wesley and thought that scene was pretty well done. And the Q scene was excellent. Most of the rest played out pretty much exactly as expected. I will admit my expectations for this show have been on a a roller coaster and were not high going into this episode but I think they were exceeded, overall.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:14 PM on May 5 [4 favorites]


This thing felt like it had a starting point, a reset! even, after an absurd S01 and was then was dictated an endpoint in 10 episodes. The writers couldn't get their shit together and had to write 'a wizard Q did it' season finale.

I expect that the next team will have a (cannon!) starting point and another dictated show finale conclusion. I hope the writers get between the two better.

Not a fan of the decision maker's vision for the arc of these cannon events in Star Trekverse.

For me, Patrick Stewart was the only reason I kept watching. Pure monetization for the present with no regard for longtime fans (who'll watch regardless, for now). I haven't seen 'Strange New Worlds' yet and Trekverse franchise extends out to DISCO (and rather far-ther in a mini episode).
posted by porpoise at 10:54 PM on May 5


I mean, if it wasn't Jean Luc Picard, I'd have given up on the story very early on.
posted by porpoise at 11:05 PM on May 5 [7 favorites]


I've been away from Mefi for a hot minute but wow what a terrible season.

Raffi: U Should b captain
7: can't b/c im borg 🤖😭
Stargazer Crew: where Ríos go?????
Adm. Picardroid: congrats 7 now ur captain w/o ever going to academy
7: 😲
posted by dhens at 1:30 AM on May 6 [5 favorites]


also Mrs. Fedora felt indignantly cheated that we did not get a great big smooch between Q and Picard

Picard is French, ffs! Not even a kiss on the cheek? Bah.
posted by fight or flight at 4:14 AM on May 6 [5 favorites]


Picard is French, ffs! Not even a kiss on the cheek? Bah.

"Bah oui, mon Q!"
posted by rhymedirective at 6:15 AM on May 6


I'm going to be serious now: this was a mostly okay season of television that started out strong, sagged a LOT in the middle, but mostly stuck the landing. It reminded me a lot of Voyager (not a compliment, but let's go with it) in that if you just sit back and go with with they're doing, you're going to enjoy it a hell of a lot more than constantly arguing that they're not fulfilling the premise of the show. Of course they're not! Let's move on.

I LOVED season 1. Loved, loved, loved it. It's the best Trek since DS9--it had great worldbuilding (my god the first season did more interesting stuff with the Romulans than the preceding 55 years of Trek), smart choices about Trek canon, some of the best characters to grace a Trek show since, again, DS9, and it subverted expectations over and over again while remaining true to the heart of what makes Trek so great. I truly think that in 30 years the first season will be held up as some great, great, Trek, just as it took 30 years for DS9 to get its due as a truly great television show and a truly great Trek.

Then Michael Chabon left.

Yeah, this season was dumb. And yeah, a lot of Trek is dumb. I'm not here to shit on how anyone enjoys Trek; I can only speak to for myself that I truly, deeply love this franchise. I love almost every single thing about it. And that includes the dumb. "Fair Haven"? GIVE IT TO ME. "Sub Rosa"? Fuck yes. I'll watch that sucker from behind my hands gasping in pain and loving every single second of it. "Move Along Home"? I'll watch it twice in a row while clapping.

The worse sin any piece of art can make, for me, is to be boring. And very little of Trek is outright boring (Enterprise season 2 gives me pause. Let's not talk about TOS season 3.) Picard season 2? Not a great season of television. But damn if they didn't commit, and damn if it wasn't entertaining.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:27 AM on May 6 [10 favorites]


I cried. This hit me right in the feels. Also, Wesley was a total shock and surprise, and I'm glad we got some closure on his character. Onward to S3! I can't wait for my TNG reunion and farewell!
posted by SansPoint at 10:43 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


I’m just glad it didn’t wrap up with me being actively angry at it.

The Wesley scene was a miss for me; it was the only one I disliked as I was watching, instead of thinking about all the inconsistencies and plot holes in retrospect. It’s fitting that the Travelers are involved, but something about the tone was all wrong. It felt like Kore and Wil were filmed each talking to a chromakey tennis ball. Like, before I made the connection and he introduced himself, I was wondering if this was Wil Wheaton playing himself in the near future, or they were taking a break to narrate a mini-documentary.
posted by supercres at 12:51 PM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Well, it's over. I admire that the writers did tie up all the plot lines reasonably coherently in the end. The giant galactic existential threat that can be blocked by a boxy formation of a few starships was absolutely ridiculous but hey, it's not polite to point to the Macguffin doesn't make any damn sense.

what is the point of putting astronauts in quarantine if they then break quarantine on the last day

The writers have to break the quarantine in order to get all the necessary characters in the room together. It makes no sense at all in story, but it's the only way to get Soong and not-time-travelling-Laris in with Renee.

Can we talk about just how breathtakingly dumb the ol 'switcheroo of Renee with Tallinn was? Good lord.

Also, why is a Romulan time protection agent named after the capital of Estonia?

Writer outs is also I think why Q is in the story. Q could have been not involved in pretty much all of this season except they needed him for the deus ex machina to send the characters back home to Season 3. Maybe they just wanted to give de Lancie a proper sendoff. I admit the genuine affection and love between him and Picard at the end got me a little teary eyed, but then again I watched this on an airplane after a couple of bloody marys.

Wesley didn't work for me either. I loved the use of him as a Traveller, it was a neat way to tie together the Supervisors and the Watchers and TNG stuff. Huge miss not to have him show up at Ten Forward, at least to have Guinan give him a knowing smile. Also I hate to say this, but the performance just sucked. Not sure if that was bad acting or bad directing or just some mess because they couldn't get the actor in the same room with who they needed.

I'm really not optimistic about season three of Picard. It's hard to see how it'll be anything but the most tedious fan service.
posted by Nelson at 5:11 PM on May 6 [4 favorites]


You all scoffed at my comparison to the movie Inception in the last episode thread (lol not really) but that comparison isn't looking quite so crazy now is it?!
posted by some loser at 6:40 PM on May 6 [2 favorites]


I have such affection for Picard that I don’t regret my time spent with this show but… In the an end I felt like the whole seasons plot would have been 3 or 4 episodes of TNG, too much stuff happening for no real reason and, as pointed out up thread, tying so many disparate bits of the trek universe together was a weird decision; for me it makes the world feel smaller and less interesting. I like the idea of a new kind of Borg, I’d surely watch a DS9 type series where they’re based on a strange good-Borg station run by Queen Jurati overseeing that new wormhole(?).
posted by tomp at 2:45 AM on May 7 [2 favorites]


More cast departures for season 3. The surprising one to me was Briones, since season 1 revolved around her and season 2 seemed to strain itself to include her.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:20 AM on May 7 [1 favorite]


Anyway, a much better Star Trek show premiered today. I think I'd rather spend my time enjoying that than bitching about Picard.

It's alright for some, UK viewers have three months of bitching about Picard to get through before we have to pay to subscribe to a new channel to see Captain Speeches go on at length.

There was one thing that struck me: the new transwarp thing at the end, and how they are sat at the entrance/exit. It's basically the set up for DS9 isn't it? Or maybe a new opening to the celestial temple? Given that they seem to loooovvvveee big circles back to prior ST shows, that must be a big temptation, the big unresolved Sisko stuff with Picard, and the overall unresolved Sisko ending?
posted by biffa at 11:14 AM on May 7


Don't fucking get my hopes up, biffa :p
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:14 PM on May 7 [2 favorites]


I'm really not optimistic about season three of Picard. It's hard to see how it'll be anything but the most tedious fan service.

A very understandable sentiment; FWIW:
"Patrick Stewart Had Doubts About Next Generation Cast in Picard Season 3" (Screenrant)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:22 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]


Here's my hot take on this episode: it was OK.

Everything got wrapped up, which is some kind of a miracle since this season was like if you put all the existing Trek plots in a blender. Call it "Trek Actually", I guess.

All the plot beats felt very small, and some of the characters' resolutions were perfunctory. But I've taken to heart the point made by other posters that this is probably because we've been having a global pandemic. That explains all the drone shots and why there are only like 5 people who work at the launch site.

I think they got the tone between Picard and Q right, finally. Even though the ending retroactively makes some of Q's actions and words during the season impenetrable. That was the thing I cared the most about for two reasons: 1, I thought that the way they left it at the end of TNG was perfect and I didn't want that undone, and 2, after a certain point I had a hard time caring about all the rest of it. So I'm glad they did well there.

On the other hand, that was a dumb number of ships to need to save the entire "quadrant" from the deadly energy thing.
posted by Horkus at 7:17 PM on May 7 [4 favorites]


More cast departures for season 3.

All of this makes sense. If the TNG are all coming back, you couldn't hope to service all these current cast members as well. I'd be surprised if Orla Brady is gone completely, since the whole Picard arc this season was him realising he should give her a chance. But, then again, there was a lot of character work that happened off-screen between S2 and S3, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if LARIS RETURNED TO HER HOME PLANET.
posted by crossoverman at 11:15 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]


Then Michael Chabon left.

Alas, yes. That really was the root of the problem. So many times while watching, I lamented his absence. There were interesting ideas in this season, and if they'd been executed with more competence -- and with more attention to the emotional authenticity of the characters -- it could have been so much better.

Like others, I am worried about S3. Sure, I want to see the TNG gang. But the TNG movies provide plenty of evidence that just putting them all on screen together doesn't guarantee good results. Not one of those films was as good as the TNG series finale.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:03 AM on May 8 [6 favorites]


Soong didn’t need to be in this season at all. Everything Soong did could have been done by Q, in service of his ultimate goal of making JLP go to therapy make out with Laris.

No need for Soong to have been involved in the genetics wars or whatevs. The whole Soong subplot would have dropped out very nicely.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:31 AM on May 8 [3 favorites]


For all the talk of "be careful of butterflies" at the start of the season, this season CHANGED THE BORG INTO NICE GUYS. The entire timeline has been altered. ARGH.

I mean, the only way this works is if Agnes of Borg just hides for 400 years, while the other Bad Borg just rampages around.

But it seems a bit silly to worry about butterflies after you slaughter a platoon of mercenaries.

Anyway, Guinan basically establishes that the whole thing is a closed loop so they never had to worry about butterflies because it had always happened anyway in their timeline. So nobody has ever seen the original timeline.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:35 AM on May 8 [1 favorite]


But it seems a bit silly to worry about butterflies after you slaughter a platoon of mercenaries.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how young Picard (or anyone else) could have possibly missed the fact that the walls of the catacombs in the basement of his childhood home had Borg sticking out of them. All that talk of not letting Borg tech fall into the hands of people in the past and they dumped a load of drones underneath a vineyard in France and called it done.
posted by fight or flight at 5:31 AM on May 8 [4 favorites]


“Oh, yes, I thought that was conceptual art by my 21st century ancestors, who also used MP5s to do interior decoration, which nobody apparently fixed in the following three hundred years because I remember the bullet holes from my 24th century childhood.”
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:43 AM on May 8 [4 favorites]


For all the talk of "be careful of butterflies" at the start of the season, this season CHANGED THE BORG INTO NICE GUYS. The entire timeline has been altered. ARGH.

I mean, the only way this works is if Agnes of Borg just hides for 400 years, while the other Bad Borg just rampages around.


She wouldn't even need to hide. One of the things that I griped about on the VOY rewatch is that the show doesn't seem to understand or acknowledge just how big the galaxy is. Hiding wouldn't really be a problem, since AoB a) knows where the Hegemonic Borg have spread to in the 21st century, and probably every century after that, and b) has cloaking tech. If she's just going around collecting the lost and forsaken, her collective could remain under the radar for a long time; if (as seems likely) that form of the Borg is ultimately triumphant, then that could explain why they don't seem to be a problem in the 32nd century.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:35 AM on May 8 [4 favorites]


“One of the things that I griped about on the VOY rewatch is that the show doesn't seem to understand or acknowledge just how big the galaxy is”.

Or how small the Milky Way and other galaxies are compared to the emptiness between them. The only show I can recall that really made it clear that, even with superluminal travel, it's still a long, long way between galaxies, was Stargate: Universe. It's such a pity because for obvious narrative reasons we want FTL for interstellar travel, but intergalactic distances if included would preserve the mystery of the visible but unreachable.

On that note, the people on planets simultaneously seeing the wormhole annoyed the shit out of me, along with the absurd mismatch of scale between a burst of energy that couod "threaten the quadrant" and "a bunch of Federation ships and their deflectors".
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:00 PM on May 8 [2 favorites]


Speaking of things that make no science sense, just how much of the volume of a Borg Queen is tentacles? Is she, like, 3/4 coiled hoses? My friend pointed this out and I thought I had the answer; her tentacles are erectile tissue. He countered that would require enough fluid for the tentacle inflation. Seems unlikely given she was only half a body with a bunch of leaky torso holes.
posted by Nelson at 3:21 PM on May 8 [3 favorites]


Could be inflatable? With outer shell that can be manipulated by current, force field etc. etc. Would allow for much smaller reservoirs.
posted by biffa at 4:47 PM on May 8


Not to be an apologist for this show, but biffa has a good point - Borg erectile tentacles could be pneumatic.

Or since it's nanomaterials, they could form a nano matrix that's mostly empty space while maintaining mechanical... turgidity, without compromising shearing and compaction stress forces.
posted by porpoise at 5:13 PM on May 8


Not to be an apologist for this show, but biffa has a good point - Borg erectile tentacles could be pneumatic.

Or since it's nanomaterials, they could form a nano matrix that's mostly empty space while maintaining mechanical... turgidity, without compromising shearing and compaction stress forces.


Borg strap-ons must be next level.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:43 PM on May 8 [3 favorites]


You have no idea.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:15 PM on May 8 [1 favorite]


Se7en weeps.
posted by porpoise at 7:51 PM on May 8


matrix = latice

forces = forces resistances.
posted by porpoise at 7:59 PM on May 8


The only show I can recall that really made it clear that, even with superluminal travel, it's still a long, long way between galaxies, was Stargate: Universe.

The Kelvans, in TOS' "By Any Other Name", with some sort of superior propulsion system, still took three hundred years to get from Andromeda to the Milky Way; more recently, Mass Effect: Andromeda had the FTL ships from the Milky Way take six hundred years, with the crews going into cryogenic sleep to make the trip.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:49 PM on May 8 [1 favorite]


I'm still waiting for someone to explain how young Picard (or anyone else) could have possibly missed the fact that the walls of the catacombs in the basement of his childhood home had Borg sticking out of them.

Nothing a Sawzall and a coat of plaster can't fix.
posted by fairmettle at 10:20 PM on May 8 [2 favorites]


Saw a suggestion somewhere (maybe Reddit?) that the quadrant-threatening Unexplained Giant Space Beam was the result of a Q dying. Works for me as headcanon. In the episode where Voyager gets involved in the Q civil war (which, TBF, raised more questions than it answered) didn't they first discover it when they noticed a whole bunch of stars were going supernova that shouldn't?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:53 PM on May 9 [3 favorites]


In the episode where Voyager gets involved in the Q civil war (which, TBF, raised more questions than it answered) didn't they first discover it when they noticed a whole bunch of stars were going supernova that shouldn't?

Literally *just* watched "The Q and the Grey" last week. Yes, in an area of the galaxy where a supernova is a once-in-a-century occurrence, dozens of stars were going nova within hours or minutes.
posted by hanov3r at 10:05 AM on May 10


o hey so the big bad of this entire god-changing-the-timeline-event is a galaxy level event unprecedented in 24th century and its gigatechnology

lets make a shield from 30 ships spaced so close together that they are visible and you can see their FUCKING numberplates


---

also, humans at the centre of fucking EVERYTHING. let's change the fate of galaxies so that picard can have some THERAPY.

the anthropocentric ARROGANCE.

old, non-saccharine Q would have slapped the writers so hard they would have turned into fucking NEUTRINOS.

--

BAAAAH!
posted by lalochezia at 6:53 PM on May 10


also, humans at the centre of fucking EVERYTHING. let's change the fate of galaxies so that picard can have some THERAPY.

Men will literally [change the world into a fascist dystopia, and then travel back in time and kill a bunch of mercenaries, and then create a benevolent hegemonising swarm] rather than go to therapy.

(I got yelled at for this joke because I am resisting going to therapy).
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:13 PM on May 10 [7 favorites]


wow, I didn't realize until they mentioned it on The Greatest Discovery, but this was apparently a series finale for Alison Pill as Jurati, so there's another one of the new characters who's been officially written out of the third season
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:33 AM on May 11


It's really only Seven and Raffi that are continuing.

I don't understand why they open up a transwarp hub, but the Borg Queen in charge of it and then not do anything with it in the following season. Maybe they have plans for it in another spin-off? Star Trek: Borg-ati?
posted by crossoverman at 6:02 PM on May 11


Maybe they have plans for it in another spin-off? Star Trek: Borg-ati?

I prefer Shiny Happy Borg.
posted by fairmettle at 12:01 AM on May 12




I prefer Shiny Happy Borg.

Borgy Happy People?

Shiny Borgy People?

Shiny Happy Borgle?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:26 PM on May 12 [1 favorite]


The season took plenty of swerves into utter nonsense (Jurati's Pat Benatar cover was one of the most cringe-worthy moments I've seen on TV in a long time) but I'll be damned if they didn't stick the landing. They even managed to kill Q without making me angry. Picard's farewell scene with Q was lovely, affecting and earned in all the ways that Data's death last season wasn't.

I had the Wesley appearance spoiled by some goddamned news story on the Yahoo main page. Just a big ol' picture of Wil Wheaton and a headline like, OMG, WESLEY SHOWED UP ON PICARD! Fuck you very much, Yahoo main page. It was still nice to see him again, and to see that even if he's become a cosmic superbeing he never stopped being a lovable nerd.

The Borg joining the Federation does feel weird, but I think it had to happen eventually. One of the most endearing things about this franchise is how sooner or later the Federation makes friends with everybody. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, the Hirogen, the Founders, whoever. A species can start as the very baddest of big bads, evil and inscrutable, but eventually our guys will sit down with them, they'll talk it all out and everybody will find some sort of common ground. I've said here before that Trek is a franchise with two questions at its heart: What's that? Can we be friends with it?

They finally made me care about the new characters, but in this finale it seemed like they were clearing the decks for the old TNG gang to come back next season. If so, I am there for it. If they'd just involved the original cast from the start, this show probably would have worked a lot better and gotten a lot more attention. God, this series has made so, so many baffling decisions. (Cue the clip of Jurati belting out We Belong and then taking a bow with her invisible Borg friend. WTF, show?)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:28 PM on May 14 [1 favorite]




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