Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part I
May 27, 2022 4:14 AM - Season 1, Episode 1 - Subscribe
With Imperial inquisitors hunting down the last of the Jedi, Obi-Wan (sorry, "Ben") Kenobi is forced to emerge from hiding.
I’m not a Star Wars fan. I don’t dislike the franchise, it just doesn’t reach me as it does others.
But this episode was very good. Ewan is a perfect Kenobi, no question. The inquisitors intriguing, particularly Reva. And young Leia? Completely fantastic surprise and the characterization is spot on. Great start to promising looking series.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:18 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
But this episode was very good. Ewan is a perfect Kenobi, no question. The inquisitors intriguing, particularly Reva. And young Leia? Completely fantastic surprise and the characterization is spot on. Great start to promising looking series.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:18 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
I also appreciate the diversity in the casting, even in the background and crowd scenes. It gives the show a certain grounding, a sort of welcome mat that says ‘anyone could be here, even you’ and that’s deeply needed and gratefully taken
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
MINI-LEIA! WITH A BABY ROBOT LIKE THE ONES IN BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED!!!!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:40 AM on May 27, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:40 AM on May 27, 2022 [8 favorites]
This episode makes you realize (or remember) how much the prequels wasted the huge dramatic opportunity of spending some quality time on Alderaan.
Really good stuff so far. Ewan is already elevating the material, but how about Edgerton's performance?! It's so...well, Edgy
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:09 AM on May 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
Really good stuff so far. Ewan is already elevating the material, but how about Edgerton's performance?! It's so...well, Edgy
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:09 AM on May 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
Okay, so my attention span has been shot this morning while trying to watch episode one and I pretty much only got interested when mini-Leia and her mini-robot (waaaaah!) showed up on the scene. But um...is the lady with the lightsaber a Jedi, pursuing other Jedi? This seems hypocritical?
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:18 AM on May 27, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:18 AM on May 27, 2022
The Inquisitors are (mostly) former Jedi who were captured by Emperor Palpatine, tortured, corrupted, and turned to the Dark Side.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:23 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:23 AM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
(You can tell Inquisitors are baddies because they all have red lightsabers).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:44 AM on May 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:44 AM on May 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
The Sith Inquisitors are a thing that started out as a player character class in one of the Star Wars MMO games (The Old Republic) if you were playing the "dark side" faction.
A few years later, producer Dave Filoni created the Grand Inquisitor (the white-faced guy we saw at the beginning of this episode) for the Rebels cartoon as a way of being able to feature a Vader-style villain in every episode, while still being able to reserve the actual Vader for special guest appearances further down the line. In the cartoon, he was voiced by the great Jason Isaacs, doing a terrific theatrical villain performance.
Later seasons introduced more Inquisitors like the others we saw here, with designations like "Sixth Brother" and "Ninth Sister," the idea being that Vader and Palpatine had recruited some minor dark side users to help them hunt down Jedi survivors. Several of the Inquisitors were masked, leading to speculation as to their true identities.
In the recent video game Star Wars: Fallen Order (which happens around the same time frame as this show) it's revealed that some of the Inquisitors are in fact fallen Jedi, who had been twisted by the dark side as 1970s Antihero describes above. It appears that this show's Third Sister (one of the only Inquisitors we've seen who answers to a proper name, "Reva") may be one of the younglings we see running away from the attack on the Jedi Temple shown at the beginning of this episode.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:12 PM on May 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
A few years later, producer Dave Filoni created the Grand Inquisitor (the white-faced guy we saw at the beginning of this episode) for the Rebels cartoon as a way of being able to feature a Vader-style villain in every episode, while still being able to reserve the actual Vader for special guest appearances further down the line. In the cartoon, he was voiced by the great Jason Isaacs, doing a terrific theatrical villain performance.
Later seasons introduced more Inquisitors like the others we saw here, with designations like "Sixth Brother" and "Ninth Sister," the idea being that Vader and Palpatine had recruited some minor dark side users to help them hunt down Jedi survivors. Several of the Inquisitors were masked, leading to speculation as to their true identities.
In the recent video game Star Wars: Fallen Order (which happens around the same time frame as this show) it's revealed that some of the Inquisitors are in fact fallen Jedi, who had been twisted by the dark side as 1970s Antihero describes above. It appears that this show's Third Sister (one of the only Inquisitors we've seen who answers to a proper name, "Reva") may be one of the younglings we see running away from the attack on the Jedi Temple shown at the beginning of this episode.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:12 PM on May 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
I also recognized actor/director Benny Safdie (who co-directed Good Time and Uncut Gems with his brother Josh, and more recently showed up as LA city councilman Joel Wachs in Licorice Pizza) as the fugitive Jedi who gets discovered in the tavern. When he was announced as being cast, I'd hoped that he would play a droid that looked a little bit like his character from the Safdies' short with Adam Sandler, Goldman vs. Silverman, but I'll settle for seeing him play a Jedi.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:24 PM on May 27, 2022
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:24 PM on May 27, 2022
One of my favorite things in sci-fi is when they allow bits of worldbuilding to go mostly uncommented upon, just add to the contextual visual storytelling. I'm talking here about the sand whale butcher camp. I love that kind of stuff.
I wish to commend the proliferation of bubbly sci-fi dome hats as well. More silly hats please.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:54 PM on May 27, 2022 [16 favorites]
I wish to commend the proliferation of bubbly sci-fi dome hats as well. More silly hats please.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:54 PM on May 27, 2022 [16 favorites]
I LOVE young Leia!
posted by Pendragon at 3:32 PM on May 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 3:32 PM on May 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Wasn't expecting to meet mini-Leia!
I had a suspicion we’d see her, but perhaps not so prominently featured. I really was not expecting an unremarked-upon cameo by C-3PO, protocol droiding it up.
It occurs to me that with this and Strange New Worlds running more or less concurrently we suddenly have a spate of “here’s some iconic sf characters as they were a decade before you first saw them” all happening on TV right now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:09 PM on May 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
I had a suspicion we’d see her, but perhaps not so prominently featured. I really was not expecting an unremarked-upon cameo by C-3PO, protocol droiding it up.
It occurs to me that with this and Strange New Worlds running more or less concurrently we suddenly have a spate of “here’s some iconic sf characters as they were a decade before you first saw them” all happening on TV right now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:09 PM on May 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
Why has no one mentioned Flea? Fucking Flea is the main kidnapper! Shit! Fuckin' Flea, man! It's like if, I dunno, Joey Ramone had been in the original trilogy.
Calming down now, deep breaths, OK. It was good; you can practically see Obi-Wan thinking, "No matter how crazy things got in the Order, especially at the end, at least I wasn't doing this shit day after day after damn day." That had to grind on him and probably helped nearly as much as wozzisface getting killed. Some nice side drama, wondering why Reva is obsessed with getting him: is it just anger at the younglings getting captured and darksided, or is there something else?
Also, I figure that Lil' Leia evaded the captors for as long as she did just because she knows those woods and they don't. People used to hunting other people through cities don't know about how those roots seem to reach out and grab your foot. Maybe they literally do; do we know that Alderaan didn't have space ents? I don't believe that we do.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:23 PM on May 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Calming down now, deep breaths, OK. It was good; you can practically see Obi-Wan thinking, "No matter how crazy things got in the Order, especially at the end, at least I wasn't doing this shit day after day after damn day." That had to grind on him and probably helped nearly as much as wozzisface getting killed. Some nice side drama, wondering why Reva is obsessed with getting him: is it just anger at the younglings getting captured and darksided, or is there something else?
Also, I figure that Lil' Leia evaded the captors for as long as she did just because she knows those woods and they don't. People used to hunting other people through cities don't know about how those roots seem to reach out and grab your foot. Maybe they literally do; do we know that Alderaan didn't have space ents? I don't believe that we do.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:23 PM on May 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
bits of worldbuilding to go mostly uncommented upon...
Agreed, especially with the "spate of “here’s some iconic sf characters as they were...," it's nice to continue to worldbuild without going "look at me! look at me! Aren't I clever, aren't you nostalgia-ed?"
This and other polishes are a big part of the quality of the show. Ewen McGregor's "elevating" performance being another big part.
posted by porpoise at 8:03 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Agreed, especially with the "spate of “here’s some iconic sf characters as they were...," it's nice to continue to worldbuild without going "look at me! look at me! Aren't I clever, aren't you nostalgia-ed?"
This and other polishes are a big part of the quality of the show. Ewen McGregor's "elevating" performance being another big part.
posted by porpoise at 8:03 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wow, what a great start! Obi's desert bus commute is so bleak, holy God. I was not at all prepared for Lil Leia, and I'm delighted with what an uncooperative smartass she is. I really had to talk myself into enjoying Boba Fett - this wasn't a struggle at all.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:05 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:05 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Good lord we're three days after a mass shooting at a elementary school and this show starts with a bunch of elementary school kids being shot at and cowering in fear? Obviously this was filmed long before the latest American child massacre but they could have at least put in a warning. Also it really makes you question why this kind of entertainment is considered appropriate. The entire scene is gratuitous. I guess it's there to establish the Sith are evil? Because we don't have 45 years of Star Wars establishing that already? Do we really need to see a mass shooting of children to set the scene?
Horrifying opening scene aside, the show was pretty good. Young Leia is definitely the highlight. Although again, very uncomfortable watching her put into peril given the circumstances of the week. At least those events had a story purpose. And I appreciated how empowered she is.
posted by Nelson at 10:20 PM on May 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
Horrifying opening scene aside, the show was pretty good. Young Leia is definitely the highlight. Although again, very uncomfortable watching her put into peril given the circumstances of the week. At least those events had a story purpose. And I appreciated how empowered she is.
posted by Nelson at 10:20 PM on May 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
I loved this, though I agree the opening scene hit a very raw nerve. I'm glad it was spoiled/trigger warned for me on Twitter earlier (and SO impressed that nothing else was spoiled for me! I haven't even been that careful!). Though, as I pointed out to my husband, the fact that the cops were shooting at the kids would have been pretty sharp commentary if it had been intentional. Of course, it wasn't.
I'm loving this so so much so far. Loved the evocative scene of Ben alone in his desert home, making and eating sad instant food after his sad job just like Rey at the beginning of TLJ. Much as I hated TROS I guess I've had a feeling at the back of my mind that the franchise was going to just memory hole the whole sequel trilogy as much as possible given the bad vibes, even though, as they say, there was good in it, so it warmed my heart to see a callout there.
So happy to see a nice balance between bringing back original actors and nostalgic things where possible, and building new stuff into this era we know so little about. I'm really excited for the rest of this series.
posted by potrzebie at 11:46 PM on May 27, 2022
I'm loving this so so much so far. Loved the evocative scene of Ben alone in his desert home, making and eating sad instant food after his sad job just like Rey at the beginning of TLJ. Much as I hated TROS I guess I've had a feeling at the back of my mind that the franchise was going to just memory hole the whole sequel trilogy as much as possible given the bad vibes, even though, as they say, there was good in it, so it warmed my heart to see a callout there.
So happy to see a nice balance between bringing back original actors and nostalgic things where possible, and building new stuff into this era we know so little about. I'm really excited for the rest of this series.
posted by potrzebie at 11:46 PM on May 27, 2022
The thing i didn't expect was to have my TPM shipper self reawakaned barely 10 mins into the show and having moments of deja vu that I've seen key beats in a thousand fics with this setting.
This is not a complaint.
I love kid Leia! It makes total sense this is the twin for this story (a complete opposite of those fics i mentioned)
posted by cendawanita at 2:26 AM on May 28, 2022
This is not a complaint.
I love kid Leia! It makes total sense this is the twin for this story (a complete opposite of those fics i mentioned)
posted by cendawanita at 2:26 AM on May 28, 2022
So that little thing that pops up out of the sand and lets Obi-Wan know if there's somebody inside his cave looks like one of the segments of an astromech droid's head. Does that mean:
posted by The Tensor at 3:20 AM on May 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
- He was lying in Star Wars when he said he didn't recall owning a droid?
- He just buried some poor droid in the sand for a DECADE? That's pretty fucked up.
posted by The Tensor at 3:20 AM on May 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
Ewen McGregor's "elevating" performance being another big part.
Well, yeah. The prequels have a looooooot of things wrong with them, but the one aspect of them I do not recall anyone taking issue with is McGregor’s performance. It is a good idea to center a series on him, even if it is hard to credit this Kenobi as only a decade younger than the one we know. Of course, he is aging better than Guinness or anyone else in the seventies did (McGregor turned 51 a couple of months ago; Guinness turned 62 during the shoot of the first movie).
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:40 AM on May 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, yeah. The prequels have a looooooot of things wrong with them, but the one aspect of them I do not recall anyone taking issue with is McGregor’s performance. It is a good idea to center a series on him, even if it is hard to credit this Kenobi as only a decade younger than the one we know. Of course, he is aging better than Guinness or anyone else in the seventies did (McGregor turned 51 a couple of months ago; Guinness turned 62 during the shoot of the first movie).
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:40 AM on May 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
He was lying in Star Wars when he said he didn't recall owning a droid?
What he told you was true from a certain point of view.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:41 AM on May 28, 2022 [19 favorites]
What he told you was true from a certain point of view.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:41 AM on May 28, 2022 [19 favorites]
What he told you was true from a certain point of view.
Yeah, an above-ground point of view!
Why has no one mentioned Flea? Fucking Flea is the main kidnapper! Shit! Fuckin' Flea, man! It's like if, I dunno, Joey Ramone had been in the original trilogy.
I opined to Mrs. Cheeses in the second ep that Flea's career trajectory is just really something. (Though now I wonder why he wasn't instead brought into this franchise as Young Han Solo's dead Corellian friend Needles.)
wondering why Reva is obsessed with getting him: is it just anger at the younglings getting captured and darksided, or is there something else?
We hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves. She knows Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to summarily execute Vader on Mustafar. I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that we get a moment of kindness/"weakness" from Reva later, reflecting the Jedi she should have been, only for her to double-down on her Dark Side indoctrination thereafter in a sort of Stockholm-self-loathing kind of deal. It would echo the Luke-Vader conversation on Endor, and if there's one thing this franchise does almost continually, it's echo.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:56 AM on May 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yeah, an above-ground point of view!
Why has no one mentioned Flea? Fucking Flea is the main kidnapper! Shit! Fuckin' Flea, man! It's like if, I dunno, Joey Ramone had been in the original trilogy.
I opined to Mrs. Cheeses in the second ep that Flea's career trajectory is just really something. (Though now I wonder why he wasn't instead brought into this franchise as Young Han Solo's dead Corellian friend Needles.)
wondering why Reva is obsessed with getting him: is it just anger at the younglings getting captured and darksided, or is there something else?
We hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves. She knows Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to summarily execute Vader on Mustafar. I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that we get a moment of kindness/"weakness" from Reva later, reflecting the Jedi she should have been, only for her to double-down on her Dark Side indoctrination thereafter in a sort of Stockholm-self-loathing kind of deal. It would echo the Luke-Vader conversation on Endor, and if there's one thing this franchise does almost continually, it's echo.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:56 AM on May 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
I am 95% sure that Reva is one of the padawans in the opening scene who run away after the Order 66 massacre. The lampshading about how Jedi can't stop themselves from helping others will come back to her for sure.
I am so glad that a Star Wars story finally pays some attention to Leia. I really can't stand Luke anymore, he's just insufferable at every stage. Vivien Lyra Blair is SO DAMN GOOD, especially in the scene where she rips her asshole cousin to shreds. I would watch an entire series of Obi-Wan training Leia, but I couldn't care less about ever seeing Luke Effing Skywalker ever again.
posted by briank at 6:06 AM on May 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
I am so glad that a Star Wars story finally pays some attention to Leia. I really can't stand Luke anymore, he's just insufferable at every stage. Vivien Lyra Blair is SO DAMN GOOD, especially in the scene where she rips her asshole cousin to shreds. I would watch an entire series of Obi-Wan training Leia, but I couldn't care less about ever seeing Luke Effing Skywalker ever again.
posted by briank at 6:06 AM on May 28, 2022 [8 favorites]
Jamie McKelvie: "Of course, his full name is Obiagar Wanagar Kenobiagon."
posted by Pronoiac at 10:24 AM on May 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 10:24 AM on May 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
...even if it is hard to credit this Kenobi as only a decade younger than the one we know...
Ewan McGregor is now ten years younger than Guinness was when Star Wars was filmed. So, he's exactly the correct age.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:07 PM on May 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
Ewan McGregor is now ten years younger than Guinness was when Star Wars was filmed. So, he's exactly the correct age.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:07 PM on May 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
sand whale butcher camp
I have so many questions about the health codes at play here
posted by schoolgirl report at 1:45 PM on May 28, 2022 [15 favorites]
I have so many questions about the health codes at play here
posted by schoolgirl report at 1:45 PM on May 28, 2022 [15 favorites]
I liked this, but why is the Grand Inquisitor non-human? I thought the empire were human-supremacists.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 2:59 PM on May 28, 2022
posted by Mr. Excellent at 2:59 PM on May 28, 2022
This smelled too much like the prequels for me to relax and enjoy it fully. They're really getting their money's worth out of that Tatooine set, aren't they? At least with the prequels condensed down to a 4 minute recap, we don't need the Phantom Edit anymore.
posted by jordemort at 5:08 PM on May 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jordemort at 5:08 PM on May 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ewan McGregor is now ten years younger than Guinness was when Star Wars was filmed. So, he's exactly the correct age.
That's.... literally what I said in the next sentence, along with the observation that with advances in sin care and moisturization and discreet plastic surgery, actors do not look their age the way they used to. The example I often cite is that in The Exorcist, Max von Sydow plays Father Merrin; von Sydow was 44 when the movie was released. Some thirty years later, a prequel was made (twice, but that is a different FPP) and to play the same character decades younger, they hired Stellan Skarsgard, 52 at the time.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:25 PM on May 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
That's.... literally what I said in the next sentence, along with the observation that with advances in sin care and moisturization and discreet plastic surgery, actors do not look their age the way they used to. The example I often cite is that in The Exorcist, Max von Sydow plays Father Merrin; von Sydow was 44 when the movie was released. Some thirty years later, a prequel was made (twice, but that is a different FPP) and to play the same character decades younger, they hired Stellan Skarsgard, 52 at the time.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:25 PM on May 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I liked this, but why is the Grand Inquisitor non-human? I thought the empire were human-supremacists.
I'm not sure Palpatine really cares about that sort of thing when it comes to his evil space wizard servants. If you're powerful and easy to manipulate, you have a place in the new Sith empire.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:50 PM on May 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure Palpatine really cares about that sort of thing when it comes to his evil space wizard servants. If you're powerful and easy to manipulate, you have a place in the new Sith empire.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:50 PM on May 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
IIRC the Emperor’s anti-alien bias was a Timothy Zahn invention? So maybe it’s not canon anymore.
posted by sixswitch at 8:29 PM on May 28, 2022
posted by sixswitch at 8:29 PM on May 28, 2022
*skin care. Although maybe also sin care, I dunno
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:53 AM on May 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:53 AM on May 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Are you an up-and-coming celebrity who's afraid of becoming one of those embarrassing wrinkle-bags who were popular when your dad was a kid? Have no fear! Now, with new Dorian Gray brand sin care products, you can live the louche life without it showing up on your face! And when it finally does, ask your director about Dorian Gray brand CGI age remover! Some side effects may occur, such as your face looking like a mask of itself, but face it--getting old is for suckers and ordinary people."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:27 AM on May 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:27 AM on May 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Von Sydow wore makeup in the Excorcist so that's not a true comparison. Here he is in The Kremlin Letter when he was in his early 40s probably.
posted by fiercekitten at 9:24 AM on May 29, 2022
posted by fiercekitten at 9:24 AM on May 29, 2022
I think the Imperial power structure is pretty clearly biased against non-humans - there aren't any aliens serving on the Death Star for instance. But the Emperor personally recruited Thrawn, and exceptionally Force sensitive beings are rare enough that beggars can't be choosers. I think this all squares for me; if you come up through traditional channels to power you'd better be human and ideally from the Core worlds, but if you manage to get the Big Guy's attention, where you're from and how you look is less relevant. Yes I think the worldbuilding here was more fleshed out by Timothy Zahn than anyone else.
posted by potrzebie at 3:14 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 3:14 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just a note about inquisitors, they were in WWG source material in the nineties.
posted by Fukiyama at 7:26 PM on May 29, 2022
posted by Fukiyama at 7:26 PM on May 29, 2022
With the opening scene of the Grand Inquisitor toying with the cantina owner, feeling him out for the Jedi he thinks might be present, it seemed pretty clear that the screenwriters had spent a lot of time watching Hans Landa sitting at Perrier LaPadite’s table drinking milk.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:11 PM on May 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:11 PM on May 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
Am I missing something, or does Third Sister know who Leia is?? She apparently doesn't know about Luke, but she tells Flea that Kenobi fought with Leia's father in the wars. How can she know that? If she knows, doesn't that mean at least some subset of the set of other Inquisitors, Vader, and the Emperor know? How can that be?
I must be misunderstanding something here because nobody's talking about it in the thread, and that seems HUGE. Wouldn't it break pretty much all of Star Wars if Team Dark Side figured out who Leia really was when she was still a child? Certainly Vader doesn't know in the original trilogy. Anybody who knew she was Anakin's daughter would have been expected to act very differently. Are they going to have to find some way to get rid of this knowledge?
posted by Naberius at 9:11 PM on May 29, 2022
I must be misunderstanding something here because nobody's talking about it in the thread, and that seems HUGE. Wouldn't it break pretty much all of Star Wars if Team Dark Side figured out who Leia really was when she was still a child? Certainly Vader doesn't know in the original trilogy. Anybody who knew she was Anakin's daughter would have been expected to act very differently. Are they going to have to find some way to get rid of this knowledge?
posted by Naberius at 9:11 PM on May 29, 2022
I'm gonna go out on a limb
Don’t say this around Vader, that’s a one way trip to a Force Choking
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:12 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Don’t say this around Vader, that’s a one way trip to a Force Choking
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:12 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Am I missing something, or does Third Sister know who Leia is?? She apparently doesn't know about Luke, but she tells Flea that Kenobi fought with Leia's father in the wars. How can she know that? If she knows, doesn't that mean at least some subset of the set of other Inquisitors, Vader, and the Emperor know? How can that be?
This threw me too, but I think she was talking about Bail Organa.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:36 PM on May 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
This threw me too, but I think she was talking about Bail Organa.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:36 PM on May 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yes, it's Bail.
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 PM on May 29, 2022
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 PM on May 29, 2022
Yeah she's talking about Bail Organa of "years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars" fame. At this stage only a handful of people know Leia's parentage. I'm not sure if Breha Organa even knows; Vader absolutely does not, nor does the Emperor, nor does Leia herself.
It's funny because that line always rubbed me a little funny; like, I would not describe Obi-Wan as "serving" Bail Organa during the Clone Wars except inasmuch as he was "serving" the Senate as a Jedi and Organa was a senator. But in this arc, Obi-Wan is very clearly rendering Bail Organa a service; you can totally retcon that maybe this adventure of theirs is what Leia is thinking of when she says that, even though the Clone Wars are over at this point. "Years ago you did my family an unspecified, top secret solid and we're desperate for your help again" is harder to deflect if the Empire intercepts the recording.
posted by potrzebie at 9:49 PM on May 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's funny because that line always rubbed me a little funny; like, I would not describe Obi-Wan as "serving" Bail Organa during the Clone Wars except inasmuch as he was "serving" the Senate as a Jedi and Organa was a senator. But in this arc, Obi-Wan is very clearly rendering Bail Organa a service; you can totally retcon that maybe this adventure of theirs is what Leia is thinking of when she says that, even though the Clone Wars are over at this point. "Years ago you did my family an unspecified, top secret solid and we're desperate for your help again" is harder to deflect if the Empire intercepts the recording.
posted by potrzebie at 9:49 PM on May 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ah, okay, I was thinking, based on a couple of earlier scenes, that it was generally known that Leia was adopted - just not who her actual father was. If Third Sister thinks it's Bail whose ties to Obi-Wan will draw him out, that solves the huge problem. But damn what a coinkidink. And there must be someone out there with ties to Obi-Wan that could be pulled more easily than kidnapping the daughter of a Senator!
posted by Naberius at 10:57 AM on May 30, 2022
posted by Naberius at 10:57 AM on May 30, 2022
I dig this. It took me out of the watch, how easy it was for the the kid Jedi to find Kenobi while he's hiding, and then how easily Bail Organa finds him...again, when he is supposed to be hidden.
It does make the Inquisitors look like morons, but That's also Part Of It.
so, really, it's just for the adventure plot. I can't really spend a lot of intellectual time on things like jedi desert spy-craft or the spoilage rate for massive monster desert shark meat. (It's probably just naturally brined by the salt composition that is a result of swimming through loose sands.)
posted by eustatic at 1:52 PM on May 30, 2022
It does make the Inquisitors look like morons, but That's also Part Of It.
so, really, it's just for the adventure plot. I can't really spend a lot of intellectual time on things like jedi desert spy-craft or the spoilage rate for massive monster desert shark meat. (It's probably just naturally brined by the salt composition that is a result of swimming through loose sands.)
posted by eustatic at 1:52 PM on May 30, 2022
It's funny because that line always rubbed me a little funny; like, I would not describe Obi-Wan as "serving" Bail Organa during the Clone Wars except inasmuch as he was "serving" the Senate as a Jedi and Organa was a senator.
I may be misremembering, but I do think the Clone Wars show did at least one ep where Bail gave Obi-Wan (and Anakin) orders.
how easily Bail Organa finds him...again, when he is supposed to be hidden.
Bail was in the room when Yoda suggested Tatooine to Obi-Wan (in the end of Revenge of the Sith).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:49 PM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I may be misremembering, but I do think the Clone Wars show did at least one ep where Bail gave Obi-Wan (and Anakin) orders.
how easily Bail Organa finds him...again, when he is supposed to be hidden.
Bail was in the room when Yoda suggested Tatooine to Obi-Wan (in the end of Revenge of the Sith).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:49 PM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
So I don't want to go scrub through the prequels to refresh my memory so maybe someone here can - were order 66 and Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight happening at the same time? I sortakinda remember Anakin being involved in Order 66 (like, killing younglings involved), but the way they were presented in the review before the episode confused my wife and now honestly I couldn't tell for certain either.
posted by Kyol at 6:23 AM on May 31, 2022
posted by Kyol at 6:23 AM on May 31, 2022
I may be misremembering, but I do think the Clone Wars show did at least one ep where Bail gave Obi-Wan (and Anakin) orders.
The first thing I found checking the wikis is an episode from Clone Wars S02 where Obi-Wan and Anakin help deliver supplies to Bail Organa on a Separatist-controlled planet, eventually getting into a pitched space battle with a Separatist admiral, which I'd say counts.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:26 AM on May 31, 2022
The first thing I found checking the wikis is an episode from Clone Wars S02 where Obi-Wan and Anakin help deliver supplies to Bail Organa on a Separatist-controlled planet, eventually getting into a pitched space battle with a Separatist admiral, which I'd say counts.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:26 AM on May 31, 2022
So I don't want to go scrub through the prequels to refresh my memory so maybe someone here can - were order 66 and Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight happening at the same time? I sortakinda remember Anakin being involved in Order 66 (like, killing younglings involved)
Obi-Wan gets shot down, but does not die, when order 66 goes out; simultaneously-ish Anakin leads his troopers to genocide the Jedi temple; afterwards, Obi-Wan learns of Anakin's fall and sneaks on Padme's ship to go confront Anakin. Amusingly, all of Anakin's "from my point of view the Jedi are evil" ranting comes after he's choked out his wife and murked a bunch of kids he knows.
As for the line about Obi-Wan "serving" Bail during the Clone Wars -- I think the best answer here is that the original Star War was held together with silly string and Harrison Ford's radiant charisma. But if you want a Watsonian explanation, I like the idea that Leia grew up post-Revenge of the Sith and doesn't fully appreciate how much context she is missing about the earlier state of the Republic. It's like trying to explain to a 21st century kid everything that "before 9/11" entails, or...well, as a 90s kid, it took a while for me to understand how differently everyone viewed the world before the collapse of the Soviet Union. How would Bail and Breha explain what the Jedi did (both spiritually and within the Republic systems), or how they interacted with the Senate, particularly when Leia only knows the Senate as a toothless formality? "This guy was really special and he helped your father do good things" is a straightforward and accurate explanation, even if it feels incomplete to us.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:10 AM on May 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
Obi-Wan gets shot down, but does not die, when order 66 goes out; simultaneously-ish Anakin leads his troopers to genocide the Jedi temple; afterwards, Obi-Wan learns of Anakin's fall and sneaks on Padme's ship to go confront Anakin. Amusingly, all of Anakin's "from my point of view the Jedi are evil" ranting comes after he's choked out his wife and murked a bunch of kids he knows.
As for the line about Obi-Wan "serving" Bail during the Clone Wars -- I think the best answer here is that the original Star War was held together with silly string and Harrison Ford's radiant charisma. But if you want a Watsonian explanation, I like the idea that Leia grew up post-Revenge of the Sith and doesn't fully appreciate how much context she is missing about the earlier state of the Republic. It's like trying to explain to a 21st century kid everything that "before 9/11" entails, or...well, as a 90s kid, it took a while for me to understand how differently everyone viewed the world before the collapse of the Soviet Union. How would Bail and Breha explain what the Jedi did (both spiritually and within the Republic systems), or how they interacted with the Senate, particularly when Leia only knows the Senate as a toothless formality? "This guy was really special and he helped your father do good things" is a straightforward and accurate explanation, even if it feels incomplete to us.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:10 AM on May 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
Also I'm sort of struggling with trying to determine how much of the goofier shit from the prequels laid the groundwork for the more interesting sensitive takes that directors other than Lucas could accomplish, versus them being generally cool anyway. Like, did we need to have the hamfistedly introduced settings in the prequels like the 50s diner or the shiny glowing city planet with questionable special effects so we could bring the Mod Squad in to Boba Fett or a kinda quasi-bladerunnery neon and run down urbanity in to Kenobi, or would we have just gone "sure. cool." anyway?
Like, put another way - because the prequels went fully shiny and goofy in some ways, does that open up the world building to stuff because the audience will accept because at least it's not Jar Jar?
posted by Kyol at 8:43 AM on May 31, 2022
Like, put another way - because the prequels went fully shiny and goofy in some ways, does that open up the world building to stuff because the audience will accept because at least it's not Jar Jar?
posted by Kyol at 8:43 AM on May 31, 2022
As for the line about Obi-Wan "serving" Bail during the Clone Wars -- I think the best answer here is that the original Star War was held together with silly string and Harrison Ford's radiant charisma.
Pet Peeve: It is not a valid criticism of the OT that Lucas failed to make the PT consistent with them. At the time of the first movie, "the space-knight served the planet-king during the star-war" was a perfectly reasonable explanation.
posted by The Tensor at 9:38 AM on May 31, 2022 [11 favorites]
Pet Peeve: It is not a valid criticism of the OT that Lucas failed to make the PT consistent with them. At the time of the first movie, "the space-knight served the planet-king during the star-war" was a perfectly reasonable explanation.
posted by The Tensor at 9:38 AM on May 31, 2022 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, I guess from my perspective when you say person A "served" person B in a war the implication is that person B is person A's commanding officer or in a civilian command role, which it isn't at all clear to me describes Bail Organa. I agree that Bail did occasionally assign Obi-Wan to do stuff in the Clone Wars series, and I suppose Obi-Wan recognized him as someone who had the authority to do that (though I also kinda think Obi-Wan is the sort of guy who just happily gets told what to do by a whole lot of people) but I still think that the current arc represents more direct "service" than anything else Obi-Wan has ever done for Bail. And it also makes more sense that Leia would reference this adventure in a personal message to Obi-Wan than any one-off random side quest Obi-Wan did in the Clone Wars.
I'm probably putting way more thought into this than any person actually involved in writing this stuff, but I like my read :)
posted by potrzebie at 3:35 PM on May 31, 2022
I'm probably putting way more thought into this than any person actually involved in writing this stuff, but I like my read :)
posted by potrzebie at 3:35 PM on May 31, 2022
I think (but I haven't gone back and checked) that Leia only knows the guy who rescued her as "Ben". Which makes me wonder if, when they were all running out to the Millennium Falcon on the Death Star, she glanced back at Obi-Wan dueling Vader, saw his face, and said, "Hey WAIT a minute..."
posted by The Tensor at 3:39 PM on May 31, 2022
posted by The Tensor at 3:39 PM on May 31, 2022
Really good stuff so far. Ewan is already elevating the material, but how about Edgerton's performance?! It's so...well, Edgy
Def the second most impressive performance in the show so far.
Sadly ‘I like some parts of it and the rest wasn’t terrible’ seems to be level that almost all media is hitting me at these days.
posted by bq at 9:07 PM on June 1, 2022
Def the second most impressive performance in the show so far.
Sadly ‘I like some parts of it and the rest wasn’t terrible’ seems to be level that almost all media is hitting me at these days.
posted by bq at 9:07 PM on June 1, 2022
I liked the "recap" for viewers who never bothered rewatching the prequels.
OTOH though, oof; starting with what felt like a 5-minute recap of "those 3 movies that nobody liked much" was of a sour note to start on and it did take that really good scene of the Inquisitors inquisiting to overcome it.
It felt like it recapped a lot more of the prequels than it needed to for this first episode -- for which all you really need is "Luke's on Tattoine, Leia's on Alderaan, Ben's in self-imposed exile watching over Luke".
So we're 100% going to get Force Ghost Qui-Gon at some point, right?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:53 AM on June 3, 2022
OTOH though, oof; starting with what felt like a 5-minute recap of "those 3 movies that nobody liked much" was of a sour note to start on and it did take that really good scene of the Inquisitors inquisiting to overcome it.
It felt like it recapped a lot more of the prequels than it needed to for this first episode -- for which all you really need is "Luke's on Tattoine, Leia's on Alderaan, Ben's in self-imposed exile watching over Luke".
So we're 100% going to get Force Ghost Qui-Gon at some point, right?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:53 AM on June 3, 2022
So we're 100% going to get Force Ghost Qui-Gon at some point, right?
Probably if they're doing cChekhov's Jedi , but I hope we don't, just because it would be an interesting narrative choice. How does Ben carry on, with none of the help he's seeking?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:00 PM on June 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Probably if they're doing cChekhov's Jedi , but I hope we don't, just because it would be an interesting narrative choice. How does Ben carry on, with none of the help he's seeking?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:00 PM on June 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Maybe Obi-Wan moonlit as a bartender ? And served….
I’ll show myself out.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:07 AM on June 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’ll show myself out.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:07 AM on June 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
This episode makes you realize (or remember) how much the prequels wasted the huge dramatic opportunity of spending some quality time on Alderaan.
The biggest waste to me was having Anakin Skywalker be annoying and unsympathetic. In a tragedy it's supposed to be sad when the hero goes to the dark side; in the prequelt it's "Go, go to the dark side."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:33 PM on June 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
The biggest waste to me was having Anakin Skywalker be annoying and unsympathetic. In a tragedy it's supposed to be sad when the hero goes to the dark side; in the prequelt it's "Go, go to the dark side."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:33 PM on June 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
OTOH though, oof; starting with what felt like a 5-minute recap of "those 3 movies that nobody liked much" was of a sour note to start on
Pro: It reminds you of what happened in the prequels.
Con: It reminds you of the prequels.
Good lord we're three days after a mass shooting at a elementary school and this show starts with a bunch of elementary school kids being shot at and cowering in fear?
My daughter's the same grade as the kids at Uvalde, and I've been fucked up about it since. But I'm so jaded about society right now and was upset about being reminded how stupid the prequels were that I didn't even notice.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:47 PM on June 5, 2022
Pro: It reminds you of what happened in the prequels.
Con: It reminds you of the prequels.
Good lord we're three days after a mass shooting at a elementary school and this show starts with a bunch of elementary school kids being shot at and cowering in fear?
My daughter's the same grade as the kids at Uvalde, and I've been fucked up about it since. But I'm so jaded about society right now and was upset about being reminded how stupid the prequels were that I didn't even notice.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:47 PM on June 5, 2022
I think (but I haven't gone back and checked) that Leia only knows the guy who rescued her as "Ben". Which makes me wonder if, when they were all running out to the Millennium Falcon on the Death Star, she glanced back at Obi-Wan dueling Vader, saw his face, and said, "Hey WAIT a minute..."
She says "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi" in her message in Star Wars, though.
why is the Grand Inquisitor non-human?
And why is he wearing a Napoleon hat?
Pet Peeve: It is not a valid criticism of the OT that Lucas failed to make the PT consistent with them.
I refute it thus.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:58 PM on June 5, 2022
She says "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi" in her message in Star Wars, though.
why is the Grand Inquisitor non-human?
And why is he wearing a Napoleon hat?
Pet Peeve: It is not a valid criticism of the OT that Lucas failed to make the PT consistent with them.
I refute it thus.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:58 PM on June 5, 2022
By the way, my wife thinks Jawas are Minions with hoodies on, and I can't say I think she's wrong.
posted by Grangousier at 1:44 PM on June 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 1:44 PM on June 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
These guys are really bad at chasing a ten-year-old. "Oh no! A tree! In my way! In a forest!"
My realtime comment was "They chase like stormtroopers shoot".
posted by mikepop at 7:50 AM on June 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
My realtime comment was "They chase like stormtroopers shoot".
posted by mikepop at 7:50 AM on June 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
This brutal line from jwz's recent-viewing roundup:
Obi-Wan's day job is slicing little slabs of meat off of the giant, bloated, rotting corpse of some kind of dinosaur. I feel like this is a bit too heavy-handed a metaphor for the entire franchise.posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:48 AM on June 16, 2022 [10 favorites]
wrt the forest chase: I think they were maybe going for a "look, Leia's smart" in that she consistently chooses routes that she can fit through but her pursuers can't? but yeah, it just came off kind of hammy.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:50 AM on June 16, 2022
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:50 AM on June 16, 2022
Young Leia made me realize that young actors are selected for not being stubborn and independent so it is difficult to portray young characters that are stubborn and independent.
posted by bdc34 at 7:50 AM on June 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bdc34 at 7:50 AM on June 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah I thought they gave her WAY too much heavy lifting in The first two episodes. Episode 3 she seemed more natural.
posted by bq at 6:46 PM on June 28, 2022
posted by bq at 6:46 PM on June 28, 2022
OTOH though, oof; starting with what felt like a 5-minute recap of "those 3 movies that nobody liked much" was of a sour note to start on
Well, not everyone watching is a hardcore viewer and those movies came out 23, 20, and 17 years ago. If the original Star Wars had assumed detailed knowledge of some movies from the fifties, it might have been okay to refresh people’s memories.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:11 PM on July 3, 2022
Well, not everyone watching is a hardcore viewer and those movies came out 23, 20, and 17 years ago. If the original Star Wars had assumed detailed knowledge of some movies from the fifties, it might have been okay to refresh people’s memories.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:11 PM on July 3, 2022
I could have sworn Reva said "he served WITH her father during the War" but maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:48 PM on October 26, 2022
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:48 PM on October 26, 2022
Star Wars is really terrible at scale. Tatooine is in the "Outer Rim," supposedly so far out that the Empire doesn't even officially control it, just sending in the occasional terror squad, yet Bail Organa can get there the day after sending a message to Obi-Wan? And then he takes one space-cruise to a planet a few hours? days? away, and the baddies are there.
Good lord, who did Jimmy Smits' haircut? That's just terrible. The man is a national treasure, give him a good haircut!
Grand Inquisitor: "The Jedi always reveal themselves, they can't help but help others!"
Third Sister/Revi: "Why are you protecting the Jedi? They wouldn't help you!"
Huh?
That Jedi who came looking for Obi-Wan seems like a real doofus.
Not bad overall, although rather cliched, in particular the introduction of Leia. Oh look, what a rascally tom-boy she is, out playing in the woods when she should be dressed all lady-like and being polite, like every other rascally young character ever!
I hope the whole series isn't about Kenobi rescuing Leia, because that seems like just a retread of Mandalorian: a noble outcast, one of the last of a group of legendary warriors, out to save an infant force-user from the forces of darkness, eh, seen it.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:23 AM on October 27, 2022
Good lord, who did Jimmy Smits' haircut? That's just terrible. The man is a national treasure, give him a good haircut!
Grand Inquisitor: "The Jedi always reveal themselves, they can't help but help others!"
Third Sister/Revi: "Why are you protecting the Jedi? They wouldn't help you!"
Huh?
That Jedi who came looking for Obi-Wan seems like a real doofus.
Not bad overall, although rather cliched, in particular the introduction of Leia. Oh look, what a rascally tom-boy she is, out playing in the woods when she should be dressed all lady-like and being polite, like every other rascally young character ever!
I hope the whole series isn't about Kenobi rescuing Leia, because that seems like just a retread of Mandalorian: a noble outcast, one of the last of a group of legendary warriors, out to save an infant force-user from the forces of darkness, eh, seen it.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:23 AM on October 27, 2022
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- Oof, what an opening.
- The key to hunting Jedi is to understand they're like RPG characters and are compelled to perform helpful tasks for the local innkeeper.
- Wasn't expecting to meet mini-Leia!
- These guys are really bad at chasing a ten-year-old. "Oh no! A tree! In my way! In a forest!"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:32 AM on May 27, 2022 [9 favorites]