For All Mankind: Stranger in a Strange Land
August 11, 2022 8:40 PM - Season 3, Episode 10 - Subscribe

Season finale. The Martian crew debates how to save the life of one of their own.

You’ve got your The Martian chocolate in my The Americans peanut butter!

The North Korean space agency gives its uju bihaengsa a surprising amount of autonomy and canned beans. Dani and Grigory are terrible at charades. Ellen thinks the Democrats can save her. Molly gives Karen a pep talk. Dev, not well versed in 20th Century literature, thinks that if there is hope, it must lie with the Proles.

Kelly’s pregnancy has a lot of complications. Jimmy gets to the bottom of the NASA conspiracy. Karen fails to discuss a security issue with security. Molly does more with less and gets a new building named after her.

Ed finds that any landing you can walk away from is a good one. Danny fails to redeem himself and gets banished to a North Korean prison camp. The rest of the crew, except for the botanist, settle in for a long wait. President Waverly has to go see about a girl.

Flash forward to 2003 and Margo and Sergei have regifted the gifts of the Magi.
posted by cardboard (52 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
Pretty underwhelming finale. It puts some of the weird dead-end plot threads into context, but the show never spent enough time on the protest movement or Jimmy's "friends" for it to feel earned. Plus, doing a riff on 9/11 is... a choice.

Molly died off screen--she deserved more than that.
Karen died off screen--she deserved more than that.
Ed didn't die, somehow--all right.

I still find it unbelievable that the North Korean survived that long. Where was he getting his oxygen? Why did he have a gun?

Certainly no season 2 finale. IDK, I think this show is bad now.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:58 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]

The problem is there is nothing to do on Mars and after Mars where do you have them go? Europa? I feel is if they go that route they start delving into Star Trek/Star Wars sci-fi where this felt more grounded in reality. Might not be a bad direction for the show to take, have the superpowers race in a Manhattan Project like sprint to complete something comparable to a warp drive so they can go to more interesting worlds.
posted by geoff. at 7:20 AM on August 12

There's plenty to do on Mars! They could have spent a lot more time on the water search. They could have discovered something interesting. I mean, they went to Mars for a reason, right?
posted by rhymedirective at 7:34 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]

So, I cried.

Molly died doing exactly what she would have done. I’m okay with her walking into the smoke. I’m a little less okay with finding out from a newspaper headline.

Karen puncturing Dev’s reality distortion field was kinda great.

Turns out it’s hard to make Star Trek and The Next Generation in the same show. Who’d a thunk? Aleida is a compelling actor, Kelly’s solid but gets bad writing, Danny and Jimmy are write-downs if not total writeoffs. Nobody’s coming back to earth after two years in 0.3G.

Meh on the Radiohead. I was really hoping for some kinda bop.
posted by sixswitch at 8:07 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]

Plus, doing a riff on 9/11 is... a choice.
While there were shades of the WTC evacuation, the analog here is more the 1995 Oklahoma City than 9-11, with domestic terrorists and a fertilizer bomb in a truck. We'll see how this affects security in the next season.

I still find it unbelievable that the North Korean survived that long.
Jung-Gil's surviving the crash without losing life support is unlikely, let alone having enough supplies for more than 6 months. How the 9(?) remaining Martians will survive for 2 years on a small hydroponic setup in a collection of damaged vehicles will be interesting to see answered or ignored. I expect a number of Martians will have died by Season 4. I doubt if Danny will be one of them.

While I think Operation Van-Life was a purely domestic job, the Russian extraction of Margo happening at the same time as the bombing could raise suspicions once the Feds find/found out Margo is still alive.
posted by cardboard at 8:53 AM on August 12 [10 favorites]

I thought the scene between Aleida and Margo was great.
posted by kingless at 10:26 AM on August 12 [5 favorites]

Danny's in exile conveniently near where Danielle buried the NK astronaut's gun.

I'm surprised the set dressers didn't leave the piano in Margo's office, but I suppose it was too close to the windows.

We know Margo's in Russia five years after the bombing, but we don't know the time period in which the next season will be set. Lots of possibilities.
posted by emelenjr at 10:31 AM on August 12 [3 favorites]

Also, was there another doctor on Phoenix?

Magnesium headfake was funny. “Yeah just give her some Martian dirt for the pre-eclampsia.”

Kelly’s going to discover life somewhere. Mars? Europa?
posted by sixswitch at 11:22 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]

While I think Operation Van-Life was a purely domestic job, the Russian extraction of Margo happening at the same time as the bombing could raise suspicions once the Feds find/found out Margo is still alive.

Oh, interesting. Until the last shot, I'd thought they were cleverly underplaying the irony of these halfwit conspiracy theorists incidentally providing what was needed to cover up an actual international conspiracy at NASA, but that was under the assumption that Margo did die, and that the government would likely choose to simply stay silent about her being investigated. I guess now it's potentially both things.

Just watching innocently, I'm most upset about those Stevens brothers. Those two ruined so much! They're both basically mass murderers! (Why can't they be more like their mother.)

But one step removed, was the implication of Ellen and Pam's last scene that Ellen resigned her presidency? Handing the country over to the fundamentalist her jerk of a husband convinced her to make VP? If so, that's the most upsetting thing.

Also, I gather (from these threads) that this show is no longer living up to what a lot of people are looking for, but I'm still finding it effective (though I've been multitasking a bit while watching now).
posted by nobody at 12:51 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]

I didn’t get “resigned the Presidency” vibes.
posted by sixswitch at 1:25 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]

In any event, she’ll be term-limited from serving in Season 4. If she’s not sidelined like Molly was this season, it’s possible that she’ll be head of NASA again, or maybe working with Dev 2.0.
posted by cardboard at 2:14 PM on August 12

That assumes we pick up all the way in 2003, no? Instead of doubling back for Ellen’s second term after she runs and wins as a Democrat?
posted by sixswitch at 2:35 PM on August 12

(It does seem unlikely they’d spend more time in the White House but I wouldn’t mind seeing it, especially if Larry’s gone and we get Pam as First Lady and Poet Laureate).
posted by sixswitch at 2:36 PM on August 12

(Skipping the comments so far, mid episode):

HOLY SHIT WE’RE KERBALLING THIS SHIT!!!1!!1!!111eleventyone!!1
posted by Kyol at 3:48 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]

So at the start of this episode instead of whatever it is (a podcast pump?) it was "stay tuned after for the Science behind FAM" and I barked a laugh out loud.

Speaking of you got your The Martian inside my The Americans ...

I figured the bombing was funded by the Russians, they helped set it up to coordinate with an internal bomb to their external bomb ... the plans on those buildings were not public, nor were they open to the public, so the only way the plaid shirts could have gotten the intel on where to put a bomb (mini) in the building in the "broadcast feed" room or whatever it was was from the Russians. I expect they were priming the plaid shirts for a while, including the recruiting of them to do a 'test' run stealing the statue.

But enough time to build up a bomb plot that could double as a distraction for pulling out Margo ... maybe. If I were running a counter spy ring I'd have threads going to make sure I could pull out a high value asset with a week or two's notice. They might have detonated the bomb or something else around there instead of escalating that quickly, but who knows.

And yeah, there is not enough science to explain that north korean jail.
posted by tilde at 4:34 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]

You’ve got your The Martian chocolate in my The Americans peanut butter!

Tatiana had Kate exfiltrated!
posted by nathan_teske at 6:01 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]

I was happy to see Karen go, I was not a fan of the character or actress. I was sad to see Jimmy and Danny survive, since I hate both. I think Molly got a good last hurrah considering she has barely been in this season. I was mad about Margot getting her little speech and applause before getting blown up without facing consequences, so I was happy to see her in 2003 Russia.

I feel like tying themselves to making decade jumps each season was a stupid idea. Moving forward at maybe half that pace would have given them more time for future seasons, and delayed the ridiculously low budget wigs and makeup. Not sure where they go next, especially since they haven’t developed any new younger characters this season. I can’t remember exactly, but I feel like they didn’t start developing a younger generation of characters in season one or three. This seems like an oversight if you are planning a decade time jump every season.
posted by snofoam at 6:42 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]

Also: Molly got the short end of the stick this season but in addition to saving a bunch of people at NASA (and once more being a stone-cold get-it-done badass), she also saved Ed’s life. They made a big point of him following her guidance: he ignores the radar altimeter, he ignores ground visual, he watches the horizon, and he survives.

That got me thinking about Molly‘s arc as a whole, and that led me to think a lot about Tracy Stevens. In season one, Molly is hypercompetitive. At one point she challenges Tracy, saying, “So what do you bring to this program?” It turns out one of the major things that Tracy brings is the absolute refusal to leave people behind. Ellen in the desert survival challenge, Molly herself in space on Apollo 24, and eventually Gordo. I feel like Molly wasn’t actually a “leave no one behind” kind of person before she knew Tracy. She was stubborn, sure, but not self-sacrificing. Molly goes on to bring Wubbo home, then Ed, and finally a whole bunch of her former colleagues. Nice handoff and legacy from Tracy.
posted by sixswitch at 6:57 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]

As much as I hate Danny I found it very strange that they exiled him to the North Korean tin can. That's probably not going to help his mental state any. Couldn't they have put him in a spare rover or something? I don't see that anyone could survive in there for very long without going crazy. I also don't see how two North Koreans could survive in there for the entire journey from Earth and then one of them survive on the surface that long.

I don't think the terrorist kids were involved with the Russians. I think if they wanted to get Margo out they'd have certainly found an easier way than blowing up an entire NASA building.

I assumed when they flashed forward to 2003 that's where they were going to pick up the next season so I guess we'll see what happens.

All in a all a disappointing season but I'll still watch season 4 unless it starts out even worse.
posted by bondcliff at 7:48 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]

If you told me in season 1 that Gordo would only be the third worst Stevens... I might have given up.

But then I'd miss Kelly's launch to orbit! And the Korean! A space hotel orbiting Mars!
posted by Acari at 8:33 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]

From Reddit (with apologies):

“Now both Stevens boys have screwed Karen.”
posted by sixswitch at 9:17 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


“Anyeong Bob!”
posted by sixswitch at 9:26 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]

Turn it into a brig for Danny?

Writers, I was not being serious.
posted by mikepop at 9:28 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]

As much as I hate Danny I found it very strange that they exiled him to the North Korean tin can. That's probably not going to help his mental state any.

Not to mention the fuel wasted for the monthly 170 mile roundtrip drive to resupply him.

Danny's in exile conveniently near where Danielle buried the NK astronaut's gun.

If that actually does become a plot point in season four, the show will have definitely jumped the shark.
posted by fairmettle at 9:29 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]

In other news: he came as he was, but he definitely did have a gun.
posted by sixswitch at 9:33 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]

Tatiana had Kate exfiltrated!

Seems like Margo got a much nicer apartment (or better view) than Martha did.
posted by blueberry at 9:42 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]

they yeeted the pregnant lady astronaut!
posted by mon-ma-tron at 9:49 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]

I find it frustrating that this show does a lot of things well, except the fucking space stuff.

From the space hotel ordeal which had me rolling my eyes to the whole stupid pregnancy plot line... I mean, they can send a whole crew to Mars but can't figure out how to prevent pregnancies... Somebody in the planning department needs to be fired over that.

The stuff back on Earth I like more. The domestic terrorist stuff I felt was compelling. No need to really flesh it out too much, and if they did, it would be plain old stupid shit like real like domestic terrorists. I also liked the ironic criss cross Margo/Sergei outcome. Though you knew it was going to happen as soon as we find out Sergei was successfully extracted. And I'm glad Aleida made it, and her character was fleshed out better this season. I actually feel sorry for Jimmy. He gets to know how much he got played by a bunch of loons, to such a terrible result.

I'll stick around for season 4, but if it pulls more crap like this season, I'll bail.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:00 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]

I liked the Kelly and Ed (and Molly) plot although I agree the pregnancy shouldn't have happened. I thought it made really good drama, definitely not the sort of thing that should be the B-story to a terrorist attack.

Karen calls Jimmy's phone, sees a suspicious guy answer it, and then goes to investigate herself when she's STANDING NEXT TO A SECURITY GUARD. I know NASA has very lax security for some reason* but at the very least he could have radioed to alert the other two security guards when he saw a bomb.

I have been waiting for at least 2 seasons for someone to punch Danny in the face, and this was close enough so thanks writers! But the Chekhov's Gun Inexplicably Left Next to the Korean Capsule with a Conspicuous Marker is definitely going to cause trouble. Mark my words, these writers are NOT subtle and not that clever.

I guess Danny will be the Big Bad next season, because every show needs one of those. And Kelly and Aleida will be the non-elderly NASA heroes I guess? We have no young characters. (Jimmy better damn well be in prison because it took a lot to out-Danny Danny.)

Margo and Sergei was poetic, that worked on me.

I found the terrorism plot gripping but it really felt like someone in the writer's room said "We need to do a 9/11" and I'm not super happy about that. Molly using her blindness as a skill to rescue people was awesome though.

* I went to Space Center Houston about 20 years ago, which is next to JSC but not part of NASA. It had far heavier security than alterna-JSC has on this show... I mean, yeah, maybe they'd let Jimmy in because of who his parents were but why was an unchecked huge van allowed to park that close? Maybe they have had less domestic terrorism in this universe so they're not worried about that, but surely with their space race obsession they're worried about the Russians attacking?
posted by mmoncur at 11:16 PM on August 12

The fact that neither NASA or Helios thought to bring a backup lander bothers me.
posted by octothorpe at 4:37 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]

It really felt more like Oklahoma City than 911 to me. I'm just seeing where this show is taking me. I agree about the wigs and makeup (which feels sadly shoddy in lots of shows recently).
posted by h00py at 4:40 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]

Definitely Oklahoma City, domestic shitheads with barrels of gas in a van.
posted by octothorpe at 4:56 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]

It was both—the bombing was OKC but the visuals were both/9/11–the huge side missing with the bombed out floors, the wall of pictures of the missing, people wandering around covered in dust, the evacuation was extremely 9/11.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:58 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]

So one of the things I've always been terrible at visualizing is how much space you'd need for consumables, like for Danny's jail. I mean figure a trip to Mars is something like a 900 day mission, and water recycling is pretty aggressive and ... I dunno, handwave away oxygen (~400 liters per day I guess, but what sort of volume is that at storage pressure, and are there any long-term non-consumable mechanisms for scrubbing out the CO2, or do we need to figure out the volume of hydroxides, too?)

But just figure an average of 2500 calories per day, say 2,250,000 calories per astronaut total, that's like 3.5 years of these civillian prepper MREs, or about a ton of food per person? There's a slip between years and calories here, because prepper meals assume you're spending most of your day engaged in the fancy business of not dying, versus hard labor building a Mars colony.

Ok, freeze drying will help out here, these suggest that maybe a ~12" cube weighing 38 pounds per person per month is 1596 lbs of freeze dried food per person for the ~32 month duration? Overall that's a volume slightly bigger than 3' on a side per person for the whole mission, and that's probably not exactly space optimized. So, it's easy to picture them taking a bucket o' food out to Danny every month.

I mean, never mind that the Korean astronaut was apparently eating canned shrimp cocktails, and their landing craft looked like it was the orbital and landing portions of a Soyuz module, so quarters were _tiiiiiight_ for the two astronauts they wedged into it.

I'm not sure what that does to the rescue mission - I suppose you don't have to consider rationing through the return portion of the mission, because the rescue ship will be able to resupply. But oxygen? Water? Oof.

The fact that neither NASA or Helios thought to bring a backup lander bothers me.

NASA was planning on direct descent, just bringing the whole ship down - which makes Dani's decision to land in the dust storm even more unreasonable. I suppose, without Helios or the Russians, there's no time pressure, land in the best conditions possible.

But yeah, the Helios lander seems like it changed from a Phoenix refuelled lander to something that needed ISRO to return to Phoenix. So what was the plan with Ed and Danny's first landing? Land, set up ISRO and wait a month to refuel and return to the Phoenix to bring everybody else down to the pre-delivered habitats? Maybe they were siphoning fuel out of the habs, and that fuel was lost in the landslide? My spouse thinks they said the lander was damaged in the landslide, so maybe that changed the equation? But yeah, on the big ol' space hotel, you mean to say they couldn't stick a second lander on that somewhere, or some means of dropping supplies out of orbit, without the whole launch and lander process?
posted by Kyol at 8:53 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]

and are there any long-term non-consumable mechanisms for scrubbing out the CO2

We’re actually making O2 from CO2 on Mars right now — Perseverance launched with an experiment to test the production of oxygen on Mars.

A similar process can also make rocket fuel and water using at atmospheric CO2 and compressed hydrogen feedstock. Electrolyze the water and you’ve got oxygen and hydrogen.
posted by nathan_teske at 11:54 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]

So what was that thing that Jimmy installed?
Too small to be a bomb, but what could it be?

I spent a while criticizing Karen and even Jimmy's response to finding out about the terrorist plot, but in the end the terrorists were willing to kill themselves (or at least buddy with the phone was), so there wasn't really a good response short of turning into an action movie.

They didn't need Jimmy at all. Stealing the statue and parking the van were both outside things. I worry that they're setting up a plot for an inside man in space to do some sabotages next season, and I'm not happy about it.
posted by Acari at 12:04 PM on August 13

The scene between Molly and Karen was note-perfect. The unexpected rapport between Danielle and the Soviet commander was hilarious. The opening with the North Korean cosmonaut was touching. I liked Ed bring unexpectedly semi-fluent in Korean! I LOVED Molly's launch pep talk; you could tell when she was giving that second too late/second too soon advice, Molly desperately missed it all. That said...

I'm kind of upset about the pregnancy. Like, it's dumb in a way that I believe -- in bullshit nepotism NASA, of course you can make bad fertility decisions -- but it makes me mad remembering how S1 Molly figured that her friend's death meant the cancelation of the program, or S2 Danielle had to live with the reputation of the one who had screwed up her mission. A realistic S4 would have a bunch of folks openly saying that Kelly choosing to have a baby on Mars and Margo betraying the country for a decade was a sign that women can't be trusted in major roles at NASA.

I'm sympathetic to the deck-clearing bombing, if only because the show isn't great and just declaring that so-and-so retired. But the decision to do an OKC bombing makes me nervous that they're going to now feel obligated to do a 9/11. I hope there's no S4 9/11.
posted by grandiloquiet at 6:53 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]

So what was that thing that Jimmy installed?
Too small to be a bomb, but what could it be?

Jimmy's device was supposed to override the video feed so that while the world was watching Operation Kelly Drop, they could switch over to Angry Yahoo TV and tell the world why they were bombing NASA. (I assume the video override and speech is all Jimmy knew about.) But Karen saw them so Beard Guy set the bomb off early and he didn't get to make his speech.

At least that was my impression.
posted by mmoncur at 7:10 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]

I feel like this was their 9/11 because NASA is the most important thing in the country in this universe. But yeah, I hope they're done with terrorism for a while. Space has plenty of drama.

My guess for the Season 4 they're setting up: 5-10 years later. Ellen resigned, was impeached, or lost an election and NASA was defunded. Helios quit their Mars stuff because Karen's death put the rest of the board in charge. So a colony of people on Mars is trying to survive with no support, or maybe their only support coming from Russia.

Comrade Margo could be in Mission Control!
posted by mmoncur at 7:20 PM on August 13

Ok, yeah. That makes sense, mmoncur.
posted by Acari at 8:36 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]

I thought this was a relatively strong ending for a completely meh season.

I'll definitely say the added time was used well. This was a movie, and like last season, it acted like one, with loose ends all tightened up fairly well. It was so good to have Molly come back for One Last Mission, helping Ed – their camaraderie on that video message was fantastic. The death of Karen should have been more obvious in hindsight: she was moments away from getting everything she worked hard for – and deserved – and then, well. The bombing itself pulled on classic drama and soap opera tropes: who lives? Who dies? That whole plot with the fringe group didn't feel as built out as I would have liked but plausible within the show's context.

As said earlier by others, so I'm glad it's not just me, the generation we should have developed more time with in the 90s just... didn't take for me. Kelly, sure, great, but it's profoundly disappointing that after the shorter time jump she was just Pregnant Lady. It quickly became How Do We Baby. What a waste, man.

I'm deeply concerned that S4 is going to be way more earthbound than anything in space; does NASA post-bombing come back roaring? Or does this alternate America fall back into a cycle of fear and hate too (boy, that'd be some awful television) by clipping NASA's wings? I'd really hate to lose the optimism that this show delivered in its first two seasons. The Ellen storyline and its consequences threatens all of that, as does the bombing. That's not to say I need a perfect escapist utopian show here... but it's a delicate balance to weave in all of this context and in this season, the show hasn't demonstrated that it can handle it.

This season, I think, suffered from a couple of things. First, it definitely felt like a COVID-era season. Everything felt smaller; fewer people in many scenes; a bit tangled in what it was trying to say. Two, from a slightly more marketing-y angle it felt like the show started to believe its hype just a little too much; the world building stuff felt more heavy-handed (so many news clips! Look at the Apple Newton!) and thus it felt a little less hungry to me.

So. Still watching it. Not willing to say this is a jump the shark season yet, but boy, really not my favorite.
posted by hijinx at 9:51 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]

Blueberry beat me to the Margo/Martha reference.

I want to watch a whole multi-season epic about the life of Molly, where she lives to be 100.
posted by matildaben at 10:35 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]

I'm deeply concerned that S4 is going to be way more earthbound than anything in space; does NASA post-bombing come back roaring? Or does this alternate America fall back into a cycle of fear and hate too (boy, that'd be some awful television) by clipping NASA's wings?

Stay tuned as season four enters the simmering backroom office politics of NASA's hot young robot space probe engineers!
posted by fairmettle at 11:14 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]

In the Official Podcast, the executive producers brag that Season 4 will explore a whole new world — the Soviet Union!
This has been explored before.
posted by cardboard at 4:59 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]

That's one way to do a reset, though.
Have the new cosmonauts be people we don't know, with occasional cooperation with Kelly and Aleida.

And a ritual, already shrouded in mystery, of each person on Mars placing just one more rock on the already hill-like site of the Korean probe landing. They say it's to contain an annoying evil power...
posted by Acari at 6:09 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]

In the Official Podcast, the executive producers brag that Season 4 will explore a whole new world — the Soviet Union!
This has been explored before.

Oh no.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:51 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]

So we're skipping over DS9 and going straight to the BSG reboot?
posted by biffa at 4:17 PM on August 18

Not only does the bombing mirror OKC but Ellen's impeachment mirrors Clinton's. And the state of the building is nearly identical to the Murrah building after the bombing. See the photos here. This is VERY specifically playing off the events of the mid-90s.

With regards to NASA security: I moved to DC about a year before the OKC bombing. The change in security after that event was dramatic. For one example: the way I got to the clubs was by driving down Pennsylvania Avenue, directly in front of the White House. It was shocking when they blocked it off. Additionally, I temped in a couple of federal buildings and you could just waltz right in, pretty much, up until the bombing. They set up a lot of perimeters and generally hardened security after OKC. If I recall correctly, that's one reason why they used planes in 9/11; they knew they couldn't get vans close enough. (Remember, they did use a van in the previous attempt to bring down the World Trade Center.) So, for me, the security at NASA definitely reflects my memory of pre-1995 federal life, and this is very much an OKC thing. All of this really brought me back to 1994 in an intense way.

Unlike other people, I think that this bombing will be the thing that allows NASA to keep its funding. Ellen can leverage the sympathy of the people to keep their funding in place.

Other people here do not like the handling of Danny. I loved it. He deserves exile and he does not deserve absolution.

With regards to the food, I am looking forward to them sciencing the shit out of it.

I am wondering who will be the new Margo. Is it Alieda or Dev? And I'm also wondering if Ed will be a permanent Mars resident given his age and the problems with reconditioning.

Certain aspects of this are a bit soap-opera-y, but that's a Ron Moore thing. (Parts of BSG definitely had soapy elements and Outlander obviously does.) All in all, I am still gripped by this and fascinated by all of the alternate history elements. I remember the '90s well and I have been fascinated by what changes and what does not.
posted by rednikki at 1:37 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]

Other people here do not like the handling of Danny. I loved it. He deserves exile and he does not deserve absolution.

I don't think anyone thinks he deserves absolution except maybe the writers. My problem with Danny is the ham-handed way they handled the character before, and the fact that nobody saw the really obvious problem coming until it was too late.

Also exiling him is fine but they probably shouldn't have hidden a gun next to his prison... It just feels like they're setting up a really obvious problem again.
posted by mmoncur at 5:27 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]

Ellen has so much spare time. Is this why presidents golf?
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:55 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]

Cut to Danny wielding the tire iron they used to mark the location of the gun and not the gun itself, because his digging is only as deep as his character development.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:05 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]

Thank you all for making a little more bearable the home stretch of watching this show out of a confusing and frustrating amalgamation of completionism, optimism and masochism.
posted by fruitslinger at 7:23 PM on August 26 [1 favorite]

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