House of the Dragon: Driftmark Books Included
October 3, 2022 7:36 AM - Season 1, Episode 7 - Subscribe
As the families gather on Driftmark for a funeral, Viserys calls for an end to infighting and Alicent demands justice.
I didn't see a post for this episode.
I didn't see a post for this episode.
"You will have a dragon one day."
"He'll have to close an eye..."
posted by ishmael at 9:16 AM on October 3, 2022
"He'll have to close an eye..."
posted by ishmael at 9:16 AM on October 3, 2022
@memles:
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:27 AM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Tonight’s #HouseOfTheDragon was probably the best day-for-night has ever looked, and also proved that I don’t think you can ever make day-for-night look good.(Mad Max: Fury Road would like a word)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:27 AM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I'm hoping the dragons realize they can choose to burn their riders and just decide to off everyone. Because the humans absolutely suck at this point and there's not much fun in watching them.
In GoT you had some terrible people mixed with some basically decent people, but HoD is just full of rich, pampered assholes who are fighting because they have nothing better to do. Seriously, STFU and live out your rich pampered life, when you're only inspiration for being king is half dead and doesn't look like he's having fun.
Don't get me started on the whole incest thing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:28 AM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
In GoT you had some terrible people mixed with some basically decent people, but HoD is just full of rich, pampered assholes who are fighting because they have nothing better to do. Seriously, STFU and live out your rich pampered life, when you're only inspiration for being king is half dead and doesn't look like he's having fun.
Don't get me started on the whole incest thing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:28 AM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don’t think you can ever make day-for-night look good.
If they just...adjusted the curves just a scoche it'd make all the difference in the world.
posted by ishmael at 9:41 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
If they just...adjusted the curves just a scoche it'd make all the difference in the world.
posted by ishmael at 9:41 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think the lack of ice zombies are a real structural problem here? You can give me a bunch of awful characters, say the point is that they're all bad, but still keep me hooked because climate cha--ahem, ice zombies are coming and I want to know whether these very flawed people are capable of coming together to fight an existential threat. There's no ice zombie hook here -- the Targs don't ultimately keep the crown long enough to get to the ice zombies! -- so finding the characters amusing is suddenly very important. Rhaenyra and Daemon are the closest I come to liking any of them, and...yeah, honestly, the incest thing does kind of freak me out.
I've seen people call this fantasy Succession. The problem I have with this comparison is that the awful characters on Succession are pretty funny. I don't think I would watch Succession if I didn't laugh so much at it.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:50 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've seen people call this fantasy Succession. The problem I have with this comparison is that the awful characters on Succession are pretty funny. I don't think I would watch Succession if I didn't laugh so much at it.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:50 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
It might just be me, but I got a glimpse of what this show could be this week, and I...kinda loved it? But you have to understand that I love American Horror Story. A show where Serious Actors apply Serious Acting to some grand-guignol-by-way-of-telenovela bloody melodrama is my whole bag, baby. Alicent and Rhaenyra looking like they can't decide whether to rip each other's eyes out or rip each other's clothes off and do it right there on the floor, in front of the godswood and everybody? That's not really what Game of Thrones was -- and I don't think, at this point, that we're in danger of achieving Game of Thrones levels here -- but it's a fun thing for a show to be, and I'm all for it. Can they get Dylan McDermott on this show? Jessica Lange?
On a lesser note, the dragon ride was incredibly cool and thrilling, and given how much shade has been thrown at HotD's CGI, I think that's praiseworthy.
I feel like Laenor was rushed offstage a little fast. I get that he wanted to bail, and that he may well have had a conversation with Daemon that led him to think his options were to fake his death or die for real. (I'm pretty sure Laenor only got out alive because Daemon was afraid to ruffle feathers with his new bride.) But this is a hell of a thing to do to his kids and parents. A little bit of angst out on the boat might have gone a long way; as it stands, Laenor's exile reads more like a convenient story development than the wrenching moment it would surely be for an actual person in his predicament.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:04 AM on October 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
On a lesser note, the dragon ride was incredibly cool and thrilling, and given how much shade has been thrown at HotD's CGI, I think that's praiseworthy.
I feel like Laenor was rushed offstage a little fast. I get that he wanted to bail, and that he may well have had a conversation with Daemon that led him to think his options were to fake his death or die for real. (I'm pretty sure Laenor only got out alive because Daemon was afraid to ruffle feathers with his new bride.) But this is a hell of a thing to do to his kids and parents. A little bit of angst out on the boat might have gone a long way; as it stands, Laenor's exile reads more like a convenient story development than the wrenching moment it would surely be for an actual person in his predicament.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:04 AM on October 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
fake his death or die for real
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
(I kinda prefer my original "whoa, hell of a ruthless heel turn for Rhaenyra there" reaction.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:26 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
(I kinda prefer my original "whoa, hell of a ruthless heel turn for Rhaenyra there" reaction.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:26 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel like Laenor was rushed offstage a little fast.
This entire season feels rushed as fuck and I've never read the books. We have so little time with some of the characters and their actors that it's honestly confusing to me who's who, which means I literally don't give a whit about any of them. The background kids are going to be played by three different actors in this season alone, so there's no nuance to get to knowing any of them.
Even worse, they all seem to be pampered and arrogant shits. There's the implication that Aegeon? Aemon? The older boy? That he abuses the older servants. Add in that the servant was a black female and he's blond haired and blue eyed with class power over her and wow is that not a good look.
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
Yeah, it was at the very end. The screen was so dark, I thought it was Daemon in the boat with bald headed Laenor, which didn't make a lot of sense.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
This entire season feels rushed as fuck and I've never read the books. We have so little time with some of the characters and their actors that it's honestly confusing to me who's who, which means I literally don't give a whit about any of them. The background kids are going to be played by three different actors in this season alone, so there's no nuance to get to knowing any of them.
Even worse, they all seem to be pampered and arrogant shits. There's the implication that Aegeon? Aemon? The older boy? That he abuses the older servants. Add in that the servant was a black female and he's blond haired and blue eyed with class power over her and wow is that not a good look.
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
Yeah, it was at the very end. The screen was so dark, I thought it was Daemon in the boat with bald headed Laenor, which didn't make a lot of sense.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have been here for this show up til this episode.
The funeral was boring and too drawn out. The lighting was terrible. The kids fighting... come on, you're telling me that the children of the King, the Princess, and the King's brother didn't have a single person watching them? I can get one kid sneaking off to ride a dragon, but all the kids meeting in the basement for a midnight brawl?
The scene after the fight was when it went from eye rolling to "Ok I guess this is where this epic fantasy becomes a reality TV show set in a fantasy trailer park"
And yeah, the whole Laenor thing doesn't even make sense. He just 2 minutes before had sworn to do the exact opposite of what he ended up doing. In what, 3 episode's he's gone from "I like duck" to "I want to be the best father I can be" to "YOLO let's go to Ibiza Woo partay!"
If they weren't compressing 20 years into 3 episodes this might be a better show, because I can kind of guess at the character's motivations and see a theme of how their duty and nobility is creating these problems. Maybe Laenor is the winner here actually.
posted by natteringnabob at 10:36 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
The funeral was boring and too drawn out. The lighting was terrible. The kids fighting... come on, you're telling me that the children of the King, the Princess, and the King's brother didn't have a single person watching them? I can get one kid sneaking off to ride a dragon, but all the kids meeting in the basement for a midnight brawl?
The scene after the fight was when it went from eye rolling to "Ok I guess this is where this epic fantasy becomes a reality TV show set in a fantasy trailer park"
And yeah, the whole Laenor thing doesn't even make sense. He just 2 minutes before had sworn to do the exact opposite of what he ended up doing. In what, 3 episode's he's gone from "I like duck" to "I want to be the best father I can be" to "YOLO let's go to Ibiza Woo partay!"
If they weren't compressing 20 years into 3 episodes this might be a better show, because I can kind of guess at the character's motivations and see a theme of how their duty and nobility is creating these problems. Maybe Laenor is the winner here actually.
posted by natteringnabob at 10:36 AM on October 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
the premise of contemporary television is what if you couldn't see shit and you didn't know who anyone was
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on October 3, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 12:24 PM on October 3, 2022 [13 favorites]
The dark scenes were way too difficult to see what was happening, but I liked the episode overall. So much happened! We got to see a dragon being claimed! A bunch of little kids that I can barely tell apart had a deadly fight! And Rhaenyra didn’t have quite the heel turn that I expected. No complaints. (Didn’t even mind the incest, except for those weird wedding outfits.)
posted by web-goddess at 12:54 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by web-goddess at 12:54 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I chuckled when "it's bedtime now" was loudly announced by not just one, but two characters to let us know that the upcoming dark scenes were intended to be night time and not just an error with your television.
I'm willing to believe that Laenor's boyfriend was willing to kill him for that tiny coin purse that Daemon gave him. I'm not willing to believe that Laenor is going to leave his life behind, add more grief for his parents on the day of his sister's funeral, and go live in exile with the guy for that amount. This guy is the prince consort and/or the Lord of Driftmark, he's really gonna give that up for a few pieces of gold?
posted by Jawn at 1:36 PM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm willing to believe that Laenor's boyfriend was willing to kill him for that tiny coin purse that Daemon gave him. I'm not willing to believe that Laenor is going to leave his life behind, add more grief for his parents on the day of his sister's funeral, and go live in exile with the guy for that amount. This guy is the prince consort and/or the Lord of Driftmark, he's really gonna give that up for a few pieces of gold?
posted by Jawn at 1:36 PM on October 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
And what about Laenor's dragon? The show tells us they'll only accept one dragon rider at a time, until the rider dies, although they seem perfectly willing to accept a new one as soon as the funeral for their former rider is finished.
So is Seasmoke like "well, master rowed off in his boat, must be dead", or is Laenor's niece getting burnt to a crisp when she tries to claim a dragon of her own (and you know she's not gonna wait after what happened with her mother's dragon, she's probably running down to the beach to hop on him as soon as they were pulling the body out of the fireplace).
posted by Jawn at 1:43 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
So is Seasmoke like "well, master rowed off in his boat, must be dead", or is Laenor's niece getting burnt to a crisp when she tries to claim a dragon of her own (and you know she's not gonna wait after what happened with her mother's dragon, she's probably running down to the beach to hop on him as soon as they were pulling the body out of the fireplace).
posted by Jawn at 1:43 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Laenor only got out alive because Daemon was afraid to ruffle feathers with his new bride.
Pretty sure Laenor only got out alive because even these showrunners realize it's a bad look to end two episodes killing off one of the few gay characters.
I do like Daemon's ability to always find a wall to hide behind to smirk and scheme during the family fights. I was a bit surprised he didn't get reprimanded for the open chuckle during the funeral.
posted by Gary at 1:47 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Pretty sure Laenor only got out alive because even these showrunners realize it's a bad look to end two episodes killing off one of the few gay characters.
I do like Daemon's ability to always find a wall to hide behind to smirk and scheme during the family fights. I was a bit surprised he didn't get reprimanded for the open chuckle during the funeral.
posted by Gary at 1:47 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Seriously what the actual hell with the lighting in this show? About half the episode was ridiculously hard to make out.
Also, can they can it with the speaking in Valyrian? Literally nobody in the show speaks English, so what's the point in having two characters talking to each other and switching between English and then Valyrian? (I do not mind subtitles. I don't mind reading subtitles when a show is not originally in English. It just seems damn silly to switch from "you magically understand this language because everybody speaks it, but we're going to have the characters speak Valyrian for... reasons.")
We happened to re-watch an episode from S1 of GoT that kind of dovetails with this one (Ep 7) in that there's similar politics and shit is starting to get real, but the contrast couldn't be more (no pun intended) stark. At its best, even the very talky episodes of GoT were beautifully shot and kept you on the edge of your seat.
posted by jzb at 2:08 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, can they can it with the speaking in Valyrian? Literally nobody in the show speaks English, so what's the point in having two characters talking to each other and switching between English and then Valyrian? (I do not mind subtitles. I don't mind reading subtitles when a show is not originally in English. It just seems damn silly to switch from "you magically understand this language because everybody speaks it, but we're going to have the characters speak Valyrian for... reasons.")
We happened to re-watch an episode from S1 of GoT that kind of dovetails with this one (Ep 7) in that there's similar politics and shit is starting to get real, but the contrast couldn't be more (no pun intended) stark. At its best, even the very talky episodes of GoT were beautifully shot and kept you on the edge of your seat.
posted by jzb at 2:08 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
One thing that struck me in this episode is how small and underpopulated this world is. It all feels so cramped and dinky compared to Game of Thrones or The Rings of Power.
posted by octothorpe at 2:40 PM on October 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 2:40 PM on October 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
One thing that struck me in this episode is how small and underpopulated this world is. It all feels so cramped and dinky compared to Game of Thrones or The Rings of Power.
I attribute this to the realities of making TV in the covid era. I just don't think we're going to see huge crowds of people this season, other than crowds that have been filled out with CG. Productions from the last two years have generally had an abandoned shopping mall aesthetic going on.
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
There was some very clumsy storytelling around this whole plot twist. When Daemon kills Laenor's (as we soon find out) body double, my initial reaction was, "Huh?" Like, who even was that guy? On another show, it might have been obvious that we weren't supposed to be familiar with the character Daemon killed (we...weren't supposed to be, right?), but on THIS show, any time I see a character I can't immediately place, I presume it's someone we were briefly introduced to like five scenes ago who I already forgot about. And after the switch happens, I think we could be forgiven for not immediately grasping that it was Laenor who got away, since he is suddenly completely bald and we only see him for a second. (It's one thing that half the characters on this show are wearing the same wig and we're expected to tell them apart; it's another to take the wig off one of them off-screen and expect us to instantly recognize them. I realized it was Laenor because I was paying a huge amount of attention trying to understand what the fuck was happening, but I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation.) I presume Laenor's hair was placed on the corpse, which is very clever if so, but again, everything happened so fast that...yeah.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:38 PM on October 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
I attribute this to the realities of making TV in the covid era. I just don't think we're going to see huge crowds of people this season, other than crowds that have been filled out with CG. Productions from the last two years have generally had an abandoned shopping mall aesthetic going on.
I must've blinked during a critical moment in the episode, because it was only reading Glen Weldon's recap afterwards that I realized, oh, they faked it.
There was some very clumsy storytelling around this whole plot twist. When Daemon kills Laenor's (as we soon find out) body double, my initial reaction was, "Huh?" Like, who even was that guy? On another show, it might have been obvious that we weren't supposed to be familiar with the character Daemon killed (we...weren't supposed to be, right?), but on THIS show, any time I see a character I can't immediately place, I presume it's someone we were briefly introduced to like five scenes ago who I already forgot about. And after the switch happens, I think we could be forgiven for not immediately grasping that it was Laenor who got away, since he is suddenly completely bald and we only see him for a second. (It's one thing that half the characters on this show are wearing the same wig and we're expected to tell them apart; it's another to take the wig off one of them off-screen and expect us to instantly recognize them. I realized it was Laenor because I was paying a huge amount of attention trying to understand what the fuck was happening, but I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation.) I presume Laenor's hair was placed on the corpse, which is very clever if so, but again, everything happened so fast that...yeah.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:38 PM on October 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
The day-for-night stuff was so terrible I can still hardly believe it. Especially considering how great this show often looks. I thought I was going crazy when at the funeral—clearly in the middle of the day—people started talking about going to bed?
As mentioned: those kids didn't have any guards or nannies or anyone watching them? OK, maybe they snuck away and were being little shits. I can forgive that.
BUT: The heir to the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra, is allowed to go on an unsupervised walk (for at least an hour, possibly much longer) down a deserted beach? With her creepy, unreliable, shifty, murderous uncle... who also hates the current king? Where was the Princessguard (or whatever)? GRRM usually has royalty accompanied with armed guards. For very good reason! Weirdo uncle could try something... there could be an assassin, or bandits on the beach?
I liked the plot twist at the very end, but it was done much, much too quickly.
If I wasn't such a sucker for sword and sorcery crap, I might give up on this show.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:44 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
As mentioned: those kids didn't have any guards or nannies or anyone watching them? OK, maybe they snuck away and were being little shits. I can forgive that.
BUT: The heir to the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra, is allowed to go on an unsupervised walk (for at least an hour, possibly much longer) down a deserted beach? With her creepy, unreliable, shifty, murderous uncle... who also hates the current king? Where was the Princessguard (or whatever)? GRRM usually has royalty accompanied with armed guards. For very good reason! Weirdo uncle could try something... there could be an assassin, or bandits on the beach?
I liked the plot twist at the very end, but it was done much, much too quickly.
If I wasn't such a sucker for sword and sorcery crap, I might give up on this show.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:44 PM on October 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Until the moment we see Laenor's face in the boat I was sure that Daemon was going to send a second assassin to double-cross and kill the first assassin, so I was genuinely surprised (and I think it was clear in retrospect that this is why Daemon killed that random guard earlier). Yes, it's not very realistic for Laenor to agree to abandon his entire life like this, but it's also not very realistic for there to be so much random murder in the tourneys, etc., and I do think it's nice for someone to surprisingly not die every once in a while. And it would have been a very bad look right now to kill Laenor off.
posted by confluency at 1:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by confluency at 1:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I spent a few minutes adjusting the brightness and contrast on my TV, thinking the settings had got screwed up, until I realised it was meant to look like that.
Another awful episode. Unlike GoT, as grandiloquiet said above, there are no sympathetic characters, and there's no light relief, e.g. Sam Tarly. All I can hope for is that Laenor exacts revenge on someone, I don't care who, anyone will do at this point.
posted by essexjan at 3:51 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Another awful episode. Unlike GoT, as grandiloquiet said above, there are no sympathetic characters, and there's no light relief, e.g. Sam Tarly. All I can hope for is that Laenor exacts revenge on someone, I don't care who, anyone will do at this point.
posted by essexjan at 3:51 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Gotta disagree somewhat on that Guardian article. We have a good-but-not-great Samsung TV that's about 3 years old. It is not OLED. I have never specifically calibrated it for blacks, but I did ensure that picture smoothing was off and that the contrast wasn't so maxed out the way most TVs ship. In short, years ago, I made some very basic settings adjustments based on an article I read about Samsung TVs like mine.
The day for night looked really stupid. But in no way was it impossible to tell what was going on. I could clearly see the actors' faces, etc. It just looked like a goddamn Coleman Francis movie like "The Beast of Yucca Flats." "Day for night" never, ever looks good. I even thought maybe the scenes were shot in daylight because they were originally supposed to be in daylight, then at the end there were some issues, so they forced in the "Go to bed" dialog lines and then did post-processing to make it look like night.
I'm belaboring my point. It was dark and very silly looking, but it was never so dark that it was incomprehensible. At least for us.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:19 AM on October 4, 2022
The day for night looked really stupid. But in no way was it impossible to tell what was going on. I could clearly see the actors' faces, etc. It just looked like a goddamn Coleman Francis movie like "The Beast of Yucca Flats." "Day for night" never, ever looks good. I even thought maybe the scenes were shot in daylight because they were originally supposed to be in daylight, then at the end there were some issues, so they forced in the "Go to bed" dialog lines and then did post-processing to make it look like night.
I'm belaboring my point. It was dark and very silly looking, but it was never so dark that it was incomprehensible. At least for us.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:19 AM on October 4, 2022
This entire season feels rushed as fuck and I've never read the books.
The thing is, this isn't based on novels, this is based on the World of Ice and Fire... sourcebook? Sorta? that has a bullet-pointed History of Westeros with all of the major births, deaths, coups, and incest laid out but no actual plot, because it's a *history*. I'm not watching the show - I'm not at all interested in it, although I quite enjoyed the source material - but in order to turn it into an actual drama, you have to be able to take those beats and write a story with them. Rings of Power has the same problem, although the vastly thinner source material leads to different kinds of failure.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thing is, this isn't based on novels, this is based on the World of Ice and Fire... sourcebook? Sorta? that has a bullet-pointed History of Westeros with all of the major births, deaths, coups, and incest laid out but no actual plot, because it's a *history*. I'm not watching the show - I'm not at all interested in it, although I quite enjoyed the source material - but in order to turn it into an actual drama, you have to be able to take those beats and write a story with them. Rings of Power has the same problem, although the vastly thinner source material leads to different kinds of failure.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thing is, this isn't based on novels, this is based on the World of Ice and Fire...
There was also Fire & Blood which was about the first half of the Targaryen reign. So the source material is not as bad as bullet points, but not much more like Wikipedia summaries.
But your overall point still stands. Instead of trying to cram a novel into one season of TV, they are trying to stretch part of one book into multiple seasons.
posted by Gary at 8:26 AM on October 4, 2022
There was also Fire & Blood which was about the first half of the Targaryen reign. So the source material is not as bad as bullet points, but not much more like Wikipedia summaries.
But your overall point still stands. Instead of trying to cram a novel into one season of TV, they are trying to stretch part of one book into multiple seasons.
posted by Gary at 8:26 AM on October 4, 2022
Yeah, IIRC they're basically the same material, one slightly expanded over the other. History still =/= story.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:30 AM on October 4, 2022
posted by restless_nomad at 8:30 AM on October 4, 2022
The thing is, this isn't based on novels, this is based on the World of Ice and Fire... sourcebook? Sorta? that has a bullet-pointed History of Westeros with all of the major births, deaths, coups, and incest laid out but no actual plot, because it's a *history*.
Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.
Then the decisions HotD is making are really weird. Part of the allure of GoT was watching all those kids and others characters grow into something, being a witness to their journey. Feels like they should have done longer story arcs on the kids as they're are growing up. Or started with the adults and done a lot of flashbacks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.
Then the decisions HotD is making are really weird. Part of the allure of GoT was watching all those kids and others characters grow into something, being a witness to their journey. Feels like they should have done longer story arcs on the kids as they're are growing up. Or started with the adults and done a lot of flashbacks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
One of the Bastard Boys actors (or maybe both? it's hard to tell the difference between them) really needs some vocal training, because his elocution is terrible. I kept rewinding his first conversation with Rhaenyra at the funeral and finally gave up and put on subtitles; his line "We should be at Harrenhal mourning Ser Harwin" sounded more like "weh-oh ooh-uh ee uh HEHrahh muuh ih suhAWrih"
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:19 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:19 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
the premise of contemporary television is what if you couldn't see shit and you didn't know who anyone was
I think it is a dogfooding problem but different from the typical dogfood problem (in devspeak this is where you are required to eat the dogfood you make - ie. if you build tools you have to use the tools you build - as a way of keeping your understanding of the customer and their needs).
The variant of this that I am seeing more and more is what I think of as "The golden bowl" problem. Basically developers, and now seemingly TV creators, are all used to using state of the art top of line gear in optimal conditions so while they may eat their own dogfood they are doing it out of a golden bowl so they don't realize that what they are serving up reacts very badly for people not using golden bowls. They don't get the metallic aftertaste that will plague their customers with less fancy bowls.
In my case I have a decent TV but what I can't do is completely black out my living room because I live in an apartment in a city so there is always some outside light and my blinds are not perfect. Also I usually only watch TV during daylight hours. So to see I have fiddle with the brightness which means the visible half of the episodes end up washed by too much brightness. People who can create their own perfectly blacked out home theater setup are all like "I had no problem what are you all talking about?"
posted by srboisvert at 9:37 AM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think it is a dogfooding problem but different from the typical dogfood problem (in devspeak this is where you are required to eat the dogfood you make - ie. if you build tools you have to use the tools you build - as a way of keeping your understanding of the customer and their needs).
The variant of this that I am seeing more and more is what I think of as "The golden bowl" problem. Basically developers, and now seemingly TV creators, are all used to using state of the art top of line gear in optimal conditions so while they may eat their own dogfood they are doing it out of a golden bowl so they don't realize that what they are serving up reacts very badly for people not using golden bowls. They don't get the metallic aftertaste that will plague their customers with less fancy bowls.
In my case I have a decent TV but what I can't do is completely black out my living room because I live in an apartment in a city so there is always some outside light and my blinds are not perfect. Also I usually only watch TV during daylight hours. So to see I have fiddle with the brightness which means the visible half of the episodes end up washed by too much brightness. People who can create their own perfectly blacked out home theater setup are all like "I had no problem what are you all talking about?"
posted by srboisvert at 9:37 AM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
One thing I think was done very, very nicely was the Queen fight scene- on a couple levels. Daemon hanging back until he thinks Cole may actually fuck with Rhaenyra’s son and then swiftly, competently stepping in and stopping him - and thus demonstrating his continuing martial prowess for the obviously foreshadowed future war. And the way each of the nobles arranged in a half circle around their chosen side. The Velaryons arranged around Rhaenyra - which I think may also explain the Laenor escape. While yes, they may want the rest of the kingdom to think Daemon and Rhaenyra are ruthless, they presumably won’t, now that the visuals of grieving parents are set, want the Velaryons to believe it. (Though I agree the dragon is an issue…)
posted by corb at 9:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:49 AM on October 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it is a dogfooding problem but different from the typical dogfood problem (in devspeak this is where you are required to eat the dogfood you make - ie. if you build tools you have to use the tools you build - as a way of keeping your understanding of the customer and their needs).
I'm sure it looks great on the 8K $10,000 monitor that the production team has running without any compression.
posted by octothorpe at 10:39 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm sure it looks great on the 8K $10,000 monitor that the production team has running without any compression.
posted by octothorpe at 10:39 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Daemon hanging back until he thinks Cole may actually fuck with Rhaenyra’s son and then swiftly, competently stepping in and stopping him
I took it to be Daemon stopping Cole from interfering with Rhaenyra and Alicent's fight, not worried that he was going to cut one of the kids -- pretty sure even Cole knew better than to assault one of the king's grandsons, as his polite deflection when Alicent ordered him to bring her the eye of Baby Brown Bastard suggests.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:43 AM on October 4, 2022
I took it to be Daemon stopping Cole from interfering with Rhaenyra and Alicent's fight, not worried that he was going to cut one of the kids -- pretty sure even Cole knew better than to assault one of the king's grandsons, as his polite deflection when Alicent ordered him to bring her the eye of Baby Brown Bastard suggests.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:43 AM on October 4, 2022
Daemon kind of did Cole a favor. If he had tried to pull the two women apart, some very *ahem* sensitive details might have slipped out in the aftermath. At the very least, he saved Cole from being in the awkward position of trying to protect his former boss-lady (and lover whom he now despises) the Princess from his current boss-lady the Queen, without upsetting the latter or revealing his bitterness to the former.
(Does it seem to anyone else that the writers are sidelining Ser Cole and replacing him with the remaining Strong brother as Alicent's go-to-guy? I just noticed that Cole was pretty scarce in this episode vs. the last couple.)
I still don't fully buy that the Head Velaryon (Corliss?) would be so chill about his grandsons quite obviously not actually related to him. He says that people don't remember blood, they remember names, which I can sort of believe, but then again, didn't he already agree with Viserys that Rhaenyra's heir would take the name Targaryen upon ascending to the throne?
The thing that bothers me about Daemon & Rhaenyra's marriage is not so much that they are related (which is, of course, a wee bit ickypants) but that their backstory smells very strongly of grooming, even if Rhaenyra did have a teenage crush on her dashing uncle. That it's a different and older actress sort of avoids the creepiness, because at least the age difference isn't so obvious, but still.
On the other hand, their marriage is a great idea in terms of lineage. Marrying Rhaenyra's two boys to Daemon's two girls (when they are older of course!) seems like a solid genetic mix: the children are both from Targaryen blood but still reasonably distant (I think they would be considered 2nd cousins? or maybe 3rd cousins?); it joins the two remaining families of Old Valeryia, strengthening their claims and giving them control over several dragons (at least 1 or 2 more than Alicent's faction I think); and the influx of Strong blood adds in some much needed genetic diversity. Just call me the Westeros Match-Maker!
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:02 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
(Does it seem to anyone else that the writers are sidelining Ser Cole and replacing him with the remaining Strong brother as Alicent's go-to-guy? I just noticed that Cole was pretty scarce in this episode vs. the last couple.)
I still don't fully buy that the Head Velaryon (Corliss?) would be so chill about his grandsons quite obviously not actually related to him. He says that people don't remember blood, they remember names, which I can sort of believe, but then again, didn't he already agree with Viserys that Rhaenyra's heir would take the name Targaryen upon ascending to the throne?
The thing that bothers me about Daemon & Rhaenyra's marriage is not so much that they are related (which is, of course, a wee bit ickypants) but that their backstory smells very strongly of grooming, even if Rhaenyra did have a teenage crush on her dashing uncle. That it's a different and older actress sort of avoids the creepiness, because at least the age difference isn't so obvious, but still.
On the other hand, their marriage is a great idea in terms of lineage. Marrying Rhaenyra's two boys to Daemon's two girls (when they are older of course!) seems like a solid genetic mix: the children are both from Targaryen blood but still reasonably distant (I think they would be considered 2nd cousins? or maybe 3rd cousins?); it joins the two remaining families of Old Valeryia, strengthening their claims and giving them control over several dragons (at least 1 or 2 more than Alicent's faction I think); and the influx of Strong blood adds in some much needed genetic diversity. Just call me the Westeros Match-Maker!
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:02 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The dragon that Aemon claimed is the oldest and largest ie most powerful, so its addition to the greens (and subtraction from the blacks) evens up the sides.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:13 AM on October 4, 2022
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:13 AM on October 4, 2022
One of the Bastard Boys actors (or maybe both? it's hard to tell the difference between them) really needs some vocal training, because his elocution is terrible.
Oh God, yes. I also had to re-wind that first conversation with Rhaenyra because I couldn't understand what he was saying. His accent is completely wrong, too, more Estuary English than Royal Household. A bit 'common' as my late mum would have said.
posted by essexjan at 12:11 PM on October 4, 2022
Oh God, yes. I also had to re-wind that first conversation with Rhaenyra because I couldn't understand what he was saying. His accent is completely wrong, too, more Estuary English than Royal Household. A bit 'common' as my late mum would have said.
posted by essexjan at 12:11 PM on October 4, 2022
it is a really magnificent dragon
posted by supermedusa at 12:39 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by supermedusa at 12:39 PM on October 4, 2022
If you want to hear the worst accent in all the extended Game of Thrones-iverse, I think it's Season 2 Episode 7 or 8, whenever Jaime escapes from Robb Stark's camp. Robb and his new boo Talisa are having a nice ride & chat, and a soldier rides up and says, "My Lord! My Lady! The Kingslayer, he's escaped!" But it sounds more like, "Meh LOOORt, mahg LAAGHdeh, thuh Kehngslawhyurh, heyz ihscahpt!" Truly the most ridiculous accent I've heard on pretty much any show ever.
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:35 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:35 PM on October 4, 2022
I'd have to say Pilou Asbaek's accent as Uncle Greyjoy in season 6 (or so) was the most at odds with his brethren.
posted by biffa at 1:38 PM on October 4, 2022
posted by biffa at 1:38 PM on October 4, 2022
I don’t doubt it was too dark for a lot of people, though on my OLED this ep looked a heck of a lot better than, say, The Long Night, which was still nigh impossible to see even in a blacked-out room. All of which is to say, they’re going in the right direction, even if it’s imperceptible to too many.
(NOPE is another recent movie that used day-for-night to excellent effect)
posted by adrianhon at 2:25 PM on October 4, 2022
(NOPE is another recent movie that used day-for-night to excellent effect)
posted by adrianhon at 2:25 PM on October 4, 2022
"Meh LOOORt, mahg LAAGHdeh, thuh Kehngslawhyurh, heyz ihscahpt!"
Wow, I'm not from the UK, so take this with grain of salt, but I can almost here the Northern affectation in that quote. Like you would find in shows like Happy Valley or Last Tango in Halifax.
Which apparently is close to Olivia Cooke's actual accent- I think she's from Manchester? Again, I'm not from the UK, so apologies if I'm totally off-base.
posted by ishmael at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2022
Wow, I'm not from the UK, so take this with grain of salt, but I can almost here the Northern affectation in that quote. Like you would find in shows like Happy Valley or Last Tango in Halifax.
Which apparently is close to Olivia Cooke's actual accent- I think she's from Manchester? Again, I'm not from the UK, so apologies if I'm totally off-base.
posted by ishmael at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2022
I'm sure it looks great on the 8K $10,000 monitor that the production team has running without any compression.
It's more likely a $32k (at least! they get pricier) 4K reference display. Ever since the GoT episode with all the zombies in complete fucking darkness I always wanted to know: do you ever take this shit home and watch it on a $500 TV? Because I bet it looks fantastic in a dark editing room on a display that costs more than the median yearly income.
posted by dis_integration at 8:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's more likely a $32k (at least! they get pricier) 4K reference display. Ever since the GoT episode with all the zombies in complete fucking darkness I always wanted to know: do you ever take this shit home and watch it on a $500 TV? Because I bet it looks fantastic in a dark editing room on a display that costs more than the median yearly income.
posted by dis_integration at 8:39 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
BUT: The heir to the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra, is allowed to go on an unsupervised walk (for at least an hour, possibly much longer) down a deserted beach?
There are lots of ways we see Rhaenyra get disrespected. But what struck me is how Rhaenyra wandered around the funeral reception with no one stopping to talk to her. She looked so alone. She's supposed to be heir and the king looks like he's going to collapse any minute. You would think someone would want to get in her good graces. It really comes across how no one other than Viserys and maybe Corlys actually thinks Rhaenyra is going to take the throne.
It will be interesting to see how that changes with Daemon in the mix.
posted by Gary at 8:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
There are lots of ways we see Rhaenyra get disrespected. But what struck me is how Rhaenyra wandered around the funeral reception with no one stopping to talk to her. She looked so alone. She's supposed to be heir and the king looks like he's going to collapse any minute. You would think someone would want to get in her good graces. It really comes across how no one other than Viserys and maybe Corlys actually thinks Rhaenyra is going to take the throne.
It will be interesting to see how that changes with Daemon in the mix.
posted by Gary at 8:51 PM on October 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don’t understand the negativity towards this. It was the most Crusader Kings episode yet!
posted by Apocryphon at 9:45 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:45 PM on October 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
God, I hated this episode SO MUCH. What a lot of cartoonish telenovela nonsense. And the "put on the bus" change to Laenor's story (as opposed to F&B where he's just murdered) just opens up a whole new slew of plot holes which I guarantee the show is never, ever going to address. Because they're dedicated to this bullshit GOT S8 style speedrun though all the plot points. UGH.
Let's not forget the terrible day-for-night that took up half the episode and made it close to completely unwatchable.
Anyway, I love you guys for all your hilarious comments and insights. I laughed a lot reading this. Fantasy trailer park! YOLO Ibiza!! The Beast of Yucca Flats! MORE WINE! Thank you all so much for providing intelligent, fun commentary when the rest of the internet is seemingly wrapped up in Greens vs Blacks morality discourse. I love you guys.
For more nuanced discussion on why this episode is a disaster, Dwellordream's thoughts are here.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Let's not forget the terrible day-for-night that took up half the episode and made it close to completely unwatchable.
Anyway, I love you guys for all your hilarious comments and insights. I laughed a lot reading this. Fantasy trailer park! YOLO Ibiza!! The Beast of Yucca Flats! MORE WINE! Thank you all so much for providing intelligent, fun commentary when the rest of the internet is seemingly wrapped up in Greens vs Blacks morality discourse. I love you guys.
For more nuanced discussion on why this episode is a disaster, Dwellordream's thoughts are here.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
it is a really magnificent dragon
OK, you can spend $10 million on another dragon chase, but then we can only afford to light the rest of the episode like “Plan 9 from Outer Space” Deal?
posted by rongorongo at 3:41 PM on October 25, 2022
OK, you can spend $10 million on another dragon chase, but then we can only afford to light the rest of the episode like “Plan 9 from Outer Space” Deal?
posted by rongorongo at 3:41 PM on October 25, 2022
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posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:08 AM on October 3, 2022 [31 favorites]