The Peripheral: The Creation of a Thousand Forests Books Included
December 2, 2022 3:37 PM - Season 1, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Lev sabotages Flynne's treatment. Ash finds an unlikely ally. Wilf discovers some unsettling truths about Aelita. Flynne tries to save her world from Cherise.
I admit I was only half paying attention, but... how does Flynne's plan make any sense? It's played off as if she's traveling to another stub where she'll be hidden from Nuland and can become "the hunter". But there's never been any hint that stubs work like this, and keeping with the VR analogy, it doesn't make any damn sense. If her real body dies in her native timeline, how is she not simply dead?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:00 PM on December 2, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:00 PM on December 2, 2022 [10 favorites]
Well, I certainly couldn't quibble if anyone said that there wasn't a single scene from the book in this episode.
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 5:08 PM on December 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 5:08 PM on December 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
This was the end of the season? Like was this the worst cliffhanger ever? Seems like it just stopped in the middle of a random chapter (have not read the book). It's like Gibson the master of erudite cool just decided to
posted by sammyo at 7:16 PM on December 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 7:16 PM on December 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well I read the book and had no idea what was going on and now I've watched the show and don't understand what happened either.
posted by octothorpe at 7:21 PM on December 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:21 PM on December 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I admit I was only half paying attention, but... how does Flynne's plan make any sense? It's played off as if she's traveling to another stub where she'll be hidden from Nuland and can become "the hunter". But there's never been any hint that stubs work like this, and keeping with the VR analogy, it doesn't make any damn sense. If her real body dies in her native timeline, how is she not simply dead?
I was paying attention, and I still have no clue how any of this makes sense. Maybe.
Bear with me here...Creating a new stub kind of duplicates all the people from the original. So, technically, there is a Flynne in the new stub still alive. One could surmise new-stub Flynne knows everything the now-dead Flynne knew, including her plan. I dunno, though. It’s a mess.
Does this mean that season 2 will involve only new-stub Flynne and family visiting London? Or will we see characters from old-stub still headsetting into London, too?
My head hurts.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:45 PM on December 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was paying attention, and I still have no clue how any of this makes sense. Maybe.
Bear with me here...Creating a new stub kind of duplicates all the people from the original. So, technically, there is a Flynne in the new stub still alive. One could surmise new-stub Flynne knows everything the now-dead Flynne knew, including her plan. I dunno, though. It’s a mess.
Does this mean that season 2 will involve only new-stub Flynne and family visiting London? Or will we see characters from old-stub still headsetting into London, too?
My head hurts.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:45 PM on December 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
Note that there was a scene with Lev after the credits. I guess it introduces a new threat to (the old?) stub. It wasn't much of a cliffhanger any more than the first ending was.
I enjoyed this episode until the create-a-new-stub thing happened so fast and made no sense. I guess it's meant to be a copy of the original? I guess that makes sense, but I'm surprised Flynn-from-2032 understands the concept so well when I don't have a clue.
I thought Flynn wanted to open an EARLIER stub so she could re-do things (and maybe eliminate Conner's injuries too, like the first scene seemed to foreshadow.) So when she chose 2032 again I was confused.
Creating a new stub kind of duplicates all the people from the original. So, technically, there is a Flynne in the new stub still alive. One could surmise new-stub Flynne knows everything the now-dead Flynne knew, including her plan.
I guess this makes sense. I wish it was explained better (using the word "backup" or "copy" would have gone a long way) and I wish there was some hint before that this was even a thing that was possible.
I guess (assuming the stub isn't a virtual reality) it's more like a fork in the timeline than a copy. Anyway, if Bill Nye could have popped up and drawn some diagrams it would have helped.
Ash's betrayal was... weird. Honestly they didn't develop her and her partner as characters well enough before so it just seemed like she was someone who worked for Lev and occasionally had tattoos, but one threatening action from Lev and she's ready to kill thousands of people to stop his plans. And have him killed too...
Does this mean that season 2 will involve only new-stub Flynne and family visiting London? Or will we see characters from old-stub still headsetting into London, too?
Yeah, so confusing. Assuming everyone keeps their memories, we have at least two Burtons and two Conners who could show up in future London. I kind of like the idea of exploring two diverging timelines but I don't think this show can pull that off.
Well, if this IS the season finale (and it sure didn't seem like one)... thanks everybody for the commentary and I'll see you when S2 pops up.
posted by mmoncur at 11:00 PM on December 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
I enjoyed this episode until the create-a-new-stub thing happened so fast and made no sense. I guess it's meant to be a copy of the original? I guess that makes sense, but I'm surprised Flynn-from-2032 understands the concept so well when I don't have a clue.
I thought Flynn wanted to open an EARLIER stub so she could re-do things (and maybe eliminate Conner's injuries too, like the first scene seemed to foreshadow.) So when she chose 2032 again I was confused.
Creating a new stub kind of duplicates all the people from the original. So, technically, there is a Flynne in the new stub still alive. One could surmise new-stub Flynne knows everything the now-dead Flynne knew, including her plan.
I guess this makes sense. I wish it was explained better (using the word "backup" or "copy" would have gone a long way) and I wish there was some hint before that this was even a thing that was possible.
I guess (assuming the stub isn't a virtual reality) it's more like a fork in the timeline than a copy. Anyway, if Bill Nye could have popped up and drawn some diagrams it would have helped.
Ash's betrayal was... weird. Honestly they didn't develop her and her partner as characters well enough before so it just seemed like she was someone who worked for Lev and occasionally had tattoos, but one threatening action from Lev and she's ready to kill thousands of people to stop his plans. And have him killed too...
Does this mean that season 2 will involve only new-stub Flynne and family visiting London? Or will we see characters from old-stub still headsetting into London, too?
Yeah, so confusing. Assuming everyone keeps their memories, we have at least two Burtons and two Conners who could show up in future London. I kind of like the idea of exploring two diverging timelines but I don't think this show can pull that off.
Well, if this IS the season finale (and it sure didn't seem like one)... thanks everybody for the commentary and I'll see you when S2 pops up.
posted by mmoncur at 11:00 PM on December 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also...How the hell did Flynnebot get Connorbot out to that abandoned building (where no one could listen to them) without Lev, or anyone else, tagging along/knowing about it? The peripherals are kept pretty tightly stored at Lev’s place. Unless someone (Lowbeer?) had duplicate peripherals made, I’m not seeing any way that meetup happens without alerting everyone.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:49 AM on December 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 3:49 AM on December 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
Good point. And why meet up there at all when they could just take the headsets off and talk in 2032?
posted by mmoncur at 6:57 AM on December 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 6:57 AM on December 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
> One could surmise new-stub Flynne knows everything the now-dead Flynne knew, including her plan.
*and* has the stolen Research Institute information coded in the infection in new-stub Flynne's brain.
I mentioned last week that the show has elements I prefer over the book and it happened again this week. I like Aelita's group of malcontents a lot better than The Remembrancer and the boss patcher. There's so much possibility for just-barely-survivors of the Jackpot vs. those that prospered from it. I wish Flynne knew about that- the dilemma of helping Lowbeer help her stub minimize the damage of the Jackpot vs. sympathy towards those that oppose the Klept, Met and R.I. could be really interesting.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 6:38 PM on December 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
*and* has the stolen Research Institute information coded in the infection in new-stub Flynne's brain.
I mentioned last week that the show has elements I prefer over the book and it happened again this week. I like Aelita's group of malcontents a lot better than The Remembrancer and the boss patcher. There's so much possibility for just-barely-survivors of the Jackpot vs. those that prospered from it. I wish Flynne knew about that- the dilemma of helping Lowbeer help her stub minimize the damage of the Jackpot vs. sympathy towards those that oppose the Klept, Met and R.I. could be really interesting.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 6:38 PM on December 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Good point. And why meet up there at all when they could just take the headsets off and talk in 2032?
And for that matter why did she bring Conner to London at all, when she didn't bring him to fight off the guards at the secret stub-making place?
I'll stop thinking about this now. I feel like there's some real intelligence in the writing and there's a version of this episode on the floor of the editing room that made lots more sense.
posted by mmoncur at 7:30 PM on December 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
And for that matter why did she bring Conner to London at all, when she didn't bring him to fight off the guards at the secret stub-making place?
I'll stop thinking about this now. I feel like there's some real intelligence in the writing and there's a version of this episode on the floor of the editing room that made lots more sense.
posted by mmoncur at 7:30 PM on December 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
And why meet up there at all when they could just take the headsets off and talk in 2032?
So that they can talk such that even if someone can get a camera or microphone in with them, all they'll get is them lying still with their eyes twitching.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:08 PM on December 3, 2022
So that they can talk such that even if someone can get a camera or microphone in with them, all they'll get is them lying still with their eyes twitching.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:08 PM on December 3, 2022
If they'd given the same emotional space to Flynne's decision to fight back as they did to freakin' Jasper's it might have been less of a weird jump from train crash to clandestine meeting in a future London warehouse.
I think I know exactly what happened, tho, during this jump-cutty season close:
Flynne created a copy of her Stub and sacrificed herself so that Cherise will have no reason to blow up all her friends and kick off the Jackpot early in the "Flynne A" Stub. Cherise does not know the "coordinates" (whatever that means) of the new "Flynne B" Stub so she cannot effect her plan there either. Lowbeer, however, does know the coordinates and reforged the connection (however that works) from London to "Flynne B". "Flynne B" is an exact copy, probably synchronous to the events we saw in "Flynne A", so she still knows everything and has the data in her DNA (or wherever).
The secret meeting happened in London because she doesn't want her loved ones in "Flynne A" to know what she's choosing, I don't think she cares fuck-all what Cherise knows at this point. It'll be interesting to see if there end up being two Burtons and two Connors.
posted by Horkus at 9:44 PM on December 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think I know exactly what happened, tho, during this jump-cutty season close:
Flynne created a copy of her Stub and sacrificed herself so that Cherise will have no reason to blow up all her friends and kick off the Jackpot early in the "Flynne A" Stub. Cherise does not know the "coordinates" (whatever that means) of the new "Flynne B" Stub so she cannot effect her plan there either. Lowbeer, however, does know the coordinates and reforged the connection (however that works) from London to "Flynne B". "Flynne B" is an exact copy, probably synchronous to the events we saw in "Flynne A", so she still knows everything and has the data in her DNA (or wherever).
The secret meeting happened in London because she doesn't want her loved ones in "Flynne A" to know what she's choosing, I don't think she cares fuck-all what Cherise knows at this point. It'll be interesting to see if there end up being two Burtons and two Connors.
posted by Horkus at 9:44 PM on December 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
As self appointed "not a single scene" guy, I'll say I'm actually glad that they're doing something interesting with it this time (silly hand to hand combat in stub-central scene aside).
But there's never been any hint that stubs work like this, and keeping with the VR analogy, it doesn't make any damn sense. If her real body dies in her native timeline, how is she not simply dead?
This is canon with the books. A stub is exactly the same as the prime universe up until the point it's initialized but once it happens there's a complete parallel world from that moment. At the point she creates the new stub, there is now Flynne A and Flynne B. Flynne A can die but Flynne B will keep going.
Though frankly, were I Cherise, I'd continue to nuke Flynne A's world no matter what, given that she loudly announced that something was afoot. And the crushing the watch to magically erase all records of what Flynne had done was a bit silly.
I thought Flynn wanted to open an EARLIER stub so she could re-do things (and maybe eliminate Conner's injuries too, like the first scene seemed to foreshadow.) So when she chose 2032 again I was confused.
I think that was an intentional misdirect. Only Flynne from 2032 has the knowledge to take on Cherise. If she'd created an earlier stub, Flynne B would have no idea what was going on with the R.I. etc.
posted by Candleman at 1:18 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
But there's never been any hint that stubs work like this, and keeping with the VR analogy, it doesn't make any damn sense. If her real body dies in her native timeline, how is she not simply dead?
This is canon with the books. A stub is exactly the same as the prime universe up until the point it's initialized but once it happens there's a complete parallel world from that moment. At the point she creates the new stub, there is now Flynne A and Flynne B. Flynne A can die but Flynne B will keep going.
Though frankly, were I Cherise, I'd continue to nuke Flynne A's world no matter what, given that she loudly announced that something was afoot. And the crushing the watch to magically erase all records of what Flynne had done was a bit silly.
I thought Flynn wanted to open an EARLIER stub so she could re-do things (and maybe eliminate Conner's injuries too, like the first scene seemed to foreshadow.) So when she chose 2032 again I was confused.
I think that was an intentional misdirect. Only Flynne from 2032 has the knowledge to take on Cherise. If she'd created an earlier stub, Flynne B would have no idea what was going on with the R.I. etc.
posted by Candleman at 1:18 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
How does new-stub Flynne know that she is new-stub Flynne at the moment of inception. Assuming she is identical at the point of divergence, won’t she just have the same intention to take a walk in the woods? Unless old-Flynne launches the new stub before commissioning Connor (So that in new stub there is a walk but Connor never shows up.)
posted by aesop at 5:26 AM on December 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by aesop at 5:26 AM on December 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Another minor nitpick, and I haven't been watching to closely so it may have been addressed, but why are Flynne and Connor now able to disconnect from their peripherals willy nilly? I thought they had to wait for the future folk to disconnect them (notably when the inspector shares their mom's fate, but think it might've started happening a few other times).
posted by p3t3 at 2:40 PM on December 4, 2022
posted by p3t3 at 2:40 PM on December 4, 2022
Flynne B wakes from the VR trance at the moment that the new Stub was created, because her headset has no connection to London. That would have happened in the moment she created the Stub, right before she scrambles the coordinates by crushing a physical watch (because that's what video games are like, I guess?) Anyway, she knows which one she is, because that's when it happened.
posted by Horkus at 2:49 PM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Horkus at 2:49 PM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Another minor nitpick
oh, it's nitpicks all, but alllllll, the way down...
posted by From Bklyn at 2:40 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
oh, it's nitpicks all, but alllllll, the way down...
posted by From Bklyn at 2:40 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Another minor nitpick, and I haven't been watching to closely so it may have been addressed, but why are Flynne and Connor now able to disconnect from their peripherals willy nilly?
Part of the hacking bit is to establish that they have at least limited control over the system.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:32 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Part of the hacking bit is to establish that they have at least limited control over the system.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:32 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
oh, it's nitpicks all, but alllllll, the way down...
They're just not evenly distributed.
posted by jquinby at 8:12 AM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
They're just not evenly distributed.
posted by jquinby at 8:12 AM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
I wasn't expecting this to be the season finale. I agree that all the time with Bob felt wasted but maybe that was necessary for the Tommy storyline to go as far as it needs to, although that also seems like an unneeded storyline so far. I mean we only got 8 episodes. At least now for season 2 we know that we're way off what the book says so we can just enjoy the series on its own merits and aren't going to be comparing it to what happened in the book.
Note that there was a scene with Lev after the credits. I guess it introduces a new threat to (the old?) stub. It wasn't much of a cliffhanger any more than the first ending was.
So Lev is going to torch the old stub and think it is job done? I hope they don't show too much of it. Was the RI's acceleration of the Jackpot in the stub irrevocable or could they have cancelled it once Flynne created the new stub? I get the feeling that as the future people don't have direct control of events it is likely they can't stop it once it is set in motion but if that's the case then unless Flynne created the new stub to diverge back before the RI used their influence to accelerate the Jackpot she'd be in the same situation. But if she did set it up back then then it is before she hatched up her plan for the reset. So is the idea that Lowbeer would bring her up to speed on everything once she arrived again in the future? Or that future her will have some kind of journal that would explain the missing days to her?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:16 PM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Note that there was a scene with Lev after the credits. I guess it introduces a new threat to (the old?) stub. It wasn't much of a cliffhanger any more than the first ending was.
So Lev is going to torch the old stub and think it is job done? I hope they don't show too much of it. Was the RI's acceleration of the Jackpot in the stub irrevocable or could they have cancelled it once Flynne created the new stub? I get the feeling that as the future people don't have direct control of events it is likely they can't stop it once it is set in motion but if that's the case then unless Flynne created the new stub to diverge back before the RI used their influence to accelerate the Jackpot she'd be in the same situation. But if she did set it up back then then it is before she hatched up her plan for the reset. So is the idea that Lowbeer would bring her up to speed on everything once she arrived again in the future? Or that future her will have some kind of journal that would explain the missing days to her?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:16 PM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I watched the movie adaptation of "Annihilation", and later read that the director had apparently read the book once, but when he was hired to write and direct, he didn't reread it, just wrote the script based on what he remembered of it. This feels very similar, and also like Nolan and Joy just wanted to cram in a bunch of ideas/scenes they weren't able to get into Westworld.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:31 PM on December 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:31 PM on December 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
At least now for season 2 we know that we're way off what the book says so we can just enjoy the series on its own merits and aren't going to be comparing it to what happened in the book.That sounds like entirely too reasonable a stance to take; I don't think I could do it (though honestly I'm hoping that the show doesn't get picked up for a second season, making it moot).
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 2:16 AM on December 6, 2022
Given Westworld and now this, Joy/Nolan can't pull off whatever is living in their heads. There's such a tantalizing hint of something greater, but they don't have what it takes to get there.
posted by kokaku at 10:21 AM on December 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 10:21 AM on December 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
My new name for this show is "LessWorld".
It's even worse than the worst parts of WW season 4. I like all the performers and some of the design, but the writing is just atrocious. I hope they give Agency to someone else.
posted by Mngo at 1:35 PM on December 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's even worse than the worst parts of WW season 4. I like all the performers and some of the design, but the writing is just atrocious. I hope they give Agency to someone else.
posted by Mngo at 1:35 PM on December 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, this was ... weird, with some potential that just kept leading to disappointment. I could get past the really awful dialogue mostly, and the endless back-and-forth between Flynne and Burton re: letting Burton just do what he knows how to do, c'mon, he's only good at one thing! and the goofy unnecessary fighting and electrocution for Lowbeer and the costumes and Flynne, but ...
... what a mess. The glimpse of Ash's tattoos in one of the first episodes was so promising, too.
Is anyone writing decent nearish-future SF for tv?
posted by minsies at 3:35 PM on December 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
... what a mess. The glimpse of Ash's tattoos in one of the first episodes was so promising, too.
Is anyone writing decent nearish-future SF for tv?
posted by minsies at 3:35 PM on December 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I will probably watch a second season, but I wish they had done a little more to explain the rules of the game. There is an argument that The Matrix (which of course is not authored by Gibson) is the most successful Gibson adaptation, and while there are a lot of reasons why that first Matrix movie "works," a big one is that the rules of engaging with the tech are pretty simple. By the time Keanu starts breaking the Matrix, it is easy to accept that this is a sign that he's the messiah, because the first 90 minutes of the film have already convinced the audience of the rules. Conversely, after 8 hours of periodically engaging with the headset-stub stuff, I have no idea what the fuck happened in this episode. Oh, Flynn did something people didn't think could be done? Uhh, ok. Gotcha. Cool. The show can put in a couple of lines of exposition explaining it, but -- just as a joke isn't nearly as funny when you have to get the punchline explained to you -- a plot isn't nearly as engaging when you have to trawl the internet afterwards to find out what happened.
Good things about this season were: the Klept (gross, creepy!), Nuland's outfits (the shoulder pads, the earrings!), Jack Reynor (made the dull brother role better than it should've been), the future's enhanced reality filters that added a looping, fake population to the streets on London and made everything look nicer. (I really like that last one: why not just program some robots to spray-wash the abandoned London streets so you don't need the reality filter?! But also, presumably, you can sell the reality filter. Actually cleaning up the city would be a public good, and the Anglosphere increasingly hates those.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Good things about this season were: the Klept (gross, creepy!), Nuland's outfits (the shoulder pads, the earrings!), Jack Reynor (made the dull brother role better than it should've been), the future's enhanced reality filters that added a looping, fake population to the streets on London and made everything look nicer. (I really like that last one: why not just program some robots to spray-wash the abandoned London streets so you don't need the reality filter?! But also, presumably, you can sell the reality filter. Actually cleaning up the city would be a public good, and the Anglosphere increasingly hates those.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:23 AM on June 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just watched this series and... I think I have only two questions: what? And why?
Where: title sequence shows a map. Good.
When: various times as listed helpfully on screen
Who: various people from one small town in the past, plus approximately 6 real humans who are the entire population of future London
How: punching and hacking.
But, man. The two remaining questions are tough to gloss over.
I'll watch season 2 because the acting and visuals were very enjoyable. I'll be especially pleased if this becomes a long running series where Lowbeer is figuring out how to stop the jackpot (in whatever timeline, I don't care) one crisis at a time by doing clever detective work and is very smug about it.
posted by Acari at 12:06 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Where: title sequence shows a map. Good.
When: various times as listed helpfully on screen
Who: various people from one small town in the past, plus approximately 6 real humans who are the entire population of future London
How: punching and hacking.
But, man. The two remaining questions are tough to gloss over.
I'll watch season 2 because the acting and visuals were very enjoyable. I'll be especially pleased if this becomes a long running series where Lowbeer is figuring out how to stop the jackpot (in whatever timeline, I don't care) one crisis at a time by doing clever detective work and is very smug about it.
posted by Acari at 12:06 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Alas, it’s been cancelled, so we’ll never know where they were going with it. But it intrigued me enough to buy the book.
posted by jedicus at 7:21 PM on September 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jedicus at 7:21 PM on September 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well, that sucks.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:58 AM on September 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:58 AM on September 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by zztzed at 3:43 PM on December 2, 2022 [1 favorite]