Succession: Connor’s Wedding
April 9, 2023 7:49 PM - Season 4, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Before heading to Europe to meet with Matsson face-to-face, Logan tasks Roman with implementing an first step in his strategic refocus.
Wow. Didn't think they'd do it this early so that was quite a sudden shock, but it works well for the show. Another great episode - the acting, the dialogue, the editing, all of it. Looking forward to 7 episodes worth of backstabbing and such; the kids are already clear that they're in a fight.
Gerri's in a precarious place but glad to see she isn't acting like it; I know she's not above using her sexual hold on Roman (and their last interaction made it pretty obvious he would be fine with that), but I still hope the show doesn't go back there. Kerry's position seems the most precarious but I wonder what she and Logan had on paper about his death.
Nicely done all around.
posted by mediareport at 8:33 PM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Gerri's in a precarious place but glad to see she isn't acting like it; I know she's not above using her sexual hold on Roman (and their last interaction made it pretty obvious he would be fine with that), but I still hope the show doesn't go back there. Kerry's position seems the most precarious but I wonder what she and Logan had on paper about his death.
Nicely done all around.
posted by mediareport at 8:33 PM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Why were there so few guests at Connor's wedding? The boat went back to drop off the kids but it didn't look like anyone else got off. Minor point but it confused me.
posted by Mavri at 9:58 PM on April 9, 2023
posted by Mavri at 9:58 PM on April 9, 2023
Well that was great. I'm sure glad I went into it unspoiled.
The most interesting thing to me is how they handled the actual scene of Logan's death. So disorienting! The expected TV thing would be for this to be a Very Special Episode with a final tour de force performance from Brian Cox and lots of drawn out melodramatic scenes. The whole show has revolved around Logan; he barks, everyone comes to attention. But real life isn't TV scripting and what happened here was much more abrupt and disorienting. And felt real, like the traumatic and non-cinematic end that comes to actual human beings.
One scene Logan's ordering Roman to fire Gerri, the next scene he's talking about the Matsson deal. And then the next scene.. there isn't one. He's just gone. Some brief glimpses of part of his body lying there being violently pumped by a flight attendant doing something everyone knows is hopeless. Exit.
posted by Nelson at 10:06 PM on April 9, 2023 [15 favorites]
The most interesting thing to me is how they handled the actual scene of Logan's death. So disorienting! The expected TV thing would be for this to be a Very Special Episode with a final tour de force performance from Brian Cox and lots of drawn out melodramatic scenes. The whole show has revolved around Logan; he barks, everyone comes to attention. But real life isn't TV scripting and what happened here was much more abrupt and disorienting. And felt real, like the traumatic and non-cinematic end that comes to actual human beings.
One scene Logan's ordering Roman to fire Gerri, the next scene he's talking about the Matsson deal. And then the next scene.. there isn't one. He's just gone. Some brief glimpses of part of his body lying there being violently pumped by a flight attendant doing something everyone knows is hopeless. Exit.
posted by Nelson at 10:06 PM on April 9, 2023 [15 favorites]
Just heartbreaking. Even though Logan is a monster and they are all kind of terrible.
The siblings' individual reactions, the real-time relaying of dubiously sugarcoated updates, the sick feeling of realizing how much administrative work lies ahead and how to let the news out...this all rings awfully true for anyone who's lost a parent via iPhone. This was an incredible episode and I never want to see it again.
posted by knotty knots at 10:26 PM on April 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
The siblings' individual reactions, the real-time relaying of dubiously sugarcoated updates, the sick feeling of realizing how much administrative work lies ahead and how to let the news out...this all rings awfully true for anyone who's lost a parent via iPhone. This was an incredible episode and I never want to see it again.
posted by knotty knots at 10:26 PM on April 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
Logan Roy, conservative media mogul who shaped contemporary politics, dies at 84 [LA Times]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:37 PM on April 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:37 PM on April 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
.
That was a surprise. For the first few moments, I thought it was a cruel prank Logan was playing on the kids. Then that this would just be a scare.
I loved that they didn't give Logan a big scenery chewing death scene, just an old man who dies on the toilet.
"Go get Shiv!" but not Conner? Classy bunch.
I wondered about the wedding guests as well, because the kids got off the big boat onto a water taxi.
Looking forward to finding out if Logan was one of those douchbags who die without a will, or someone who fiddles with it all the time.
How will this affect Conner's poll numbers?
posted by Marky at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2023
That was a surprise. For the first few moments, I thought it was a cruel prank Logan was playing on the kids. Then that this would just be a scare.
I loved that they didn't give Logan a big scenery chewing death scene, just an old man who dies on the toilet.
"Go get Shiv!" but not Conner? Classy bunch.
I wondered about the wedding guests as well, because the kids got off the big boat onto a water taxi.
Looking forward to finding out if Logan was one of those douchbags who die without a will, or someone who fiddles with it all the time.
How will this affect Conner's poll numbers?
posted by Marky at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2023
I hope this means Marcia returns (and we never see Kerry again).
posted by Sukey Says at 3:42 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Sukey Says at 3:42 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Brian Cox is on this weeks official podcast and it's delightful.
posted by Pendragon at 3:56 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 3:56 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Goddamn. After a lifetime of stanning Jesse Armstrong sitcoms (crazy to think that my friends were watching Peep Show back in high school), he finally writes a dramatic death and it's this.
It's a very Armstrongian way to handle Logan's death, which is to say, devastating while completely avoiding every obvious dramatic beat. Masterful. Gosh.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:39 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's a very Armstrongian way to handle Logan's death, which is to say, devastating while completely avoiding every obvious dramatic beat. Masterful. Gosh.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:39 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Wow that LA Times obit is such an obnoxious spoiler - putting it in the headline the morning after the show knowing that many folks won't have seen it yet, and linking the headline from the homepage? For what? A cutesy gimmick?
Ugh.
posted by mediareport at 6:10 AM on April 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
Ugh.
posted by mediareport at 6:10 AM on April 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
FWIW, lots of folks furious in the replies to the author of that LA Times obit's tweet about how much fun it was to write, some saying the article and its spoiler showed up on the LA Times site *before* the show aired on the West Coast. Anything for clicks I guess.
posted by mediareport at 6:18 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 6:18 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I checked the LA Times' homepage because I found it hard to believe they'd flat-out spoil the show in a headline, and... yep! There it is, front page, for anyone who didn't watch Succession at exactly 11pm EST.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:20 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:20 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hmmmph. I gave up on this show after Kendall's takeover attempts failed not once but twice due to ridiculous plot twists, but I admit being curious how it would all play out and so I've been reading along here.
I'm curious -- as bold a plot choice as this is, aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father? (I'm happy to be dissuaded of my beliefs here.)
posted by martin q blank at 6:36 AM on April 10, 2023
I'm curious -- as bold a plot choice as this is, aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father? (I'm happy to be dissuaded of my beliefs here.)
posted by martin q blank at 6:36 AM on April 10, 2023
They could have done better with that LA Times obit, even aside from the spoiler issue. Unlike the obits posted after Six Feet Under ended, I am sure they couldn't just make stuff up because it wasn't their property. But they do have that sort of thing to compete with and I thought they just pretty much did a rehash of things we knew from the show.
posted by BibiRose at 6:37 AM on April 10, 2023
posted by BibiRose at 6:37 AM on April 10, 2023
I'm curious -- as bold a plot choice as this is, aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father?
I'm a fan and I'm not disappointed. There were several moments in the episode that reminded me that ineptitude and futility are part of the point here. The way Roman's body language collapsed when he told Gerry he was sad. He just sort of looked so out of touch and like a robot that was shorting out. (That was my favorite acting moment in the whole hour.) And Kendall thinking that cutting and pasting a funeral is even an option. As at many other junctures, the kids are not that functional and they were never going to do that well versus Logan.
posted by BibiRose at 6:43 AM on April 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
I'm a fan and I'm not disappointed. There were several moments in the episode that reminded me that ineptitude and futility are part of the point here. The way Roman's body language collapsed when he told Gerry he was sad. He just sort of looked so out of touch and like a robot that was shorting out. (That was my favorite acting moment in the whole hour.) And Kendall thinking that cutting and pasting a funeral is even an option. As at many other junctures, the kids are not that functional and they were never going to do that well versus Logan.
posted by BibiRose at 6:43 AM on April 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Wow, furious at the LA Times. Idiots. Whatever editor wrote that headline probably got their start on the Santa beat at the elementary school newspaper.
Two insights a friend picked up I'm relaying:
Logans death makes the karaoke scene so much sadder. There was one final showdown and it was a dumb argument about a business squabble. It's the last time the family was all together. And Logan tried to apologize to his kids! I remarked last week it was hard to tell how sincere that apology was. I bet the kids now are going to think back on that and feel real bad they didn't try to meet him half way on it. (Well except Kendall; he literally told his dead father "I can't forgive you" on the phone.)
Also most of the episode was shot in one take. Not presented that way, it's edited, but the actors were acting that in real time without a break. That definitely contributes to how urgent and present the episode feels.
posted by Nelson at 6:46 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Two insights a friend picked up I'm relaying:
Logans death makes the karaoke scene so much sadder. There was one final showdown and it was a dumb argument about a business squabble. It's the last time the family was all together. And Logan tried to apologize to his kids! I remarked last week it was hard to tell how sincere that apology was. I bet the kids now are going to think back on that and feel real bad they didn't try to meet him half way on it. (Well except Kendall; he literally told his dead father "I can't forgive you" on the phone.)
Also most of the episode was shot in one take. Not presented that way, it's edited, but the actors were acting that in real time without a break. That definitely contributes to how urgent and present the episode feels.
posted by Nelson at 6:46 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm curious -- as bold a plot choice as this is, aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father? (I'm happy to be dissuaded of my beliefs here.)
Logan's past hints at a man who was seriously abused, reacted by deciding he'd become stronger and fiercer than anybody in the room, and turned into a rotten, unbeatable man who made the world worse and made his children suffer, down to his final moments.
I don't think there's any beating him. The season 3 finale marked the moment when all his kids finally turned on him at once... and it still wasn't really enough. Logan was either going to die unrepentant or it was going to be a Ken murder-suicide. There was no universe where they one-upped him in any way.
The karaoke scene in the episode before this one was as close as we were going to get: Logan trying and failing to find a way to mouth genuine apologies, his kids digging into him more viciously for his efforts, and that final rejoinder from him to them that, while he does love them, he finds it impossible to take them seriously.
Maybe some people have fond memories of finally overcoming the monsters from their families and childhoods, but the far-more-common thing that happens is: someone fucks you up, you hate and resent and obsess over them, and then it just... lingers. Maybe they die, and you get that one final moment of realizing that there is no final chapter, no closure, no confrontation where it all turns out to have been worth it in the end. And maybe they don't die. Maybe they're just out there in the world somewhere, being monstrous to other people—or, more painfully, being kind and loving to them—leaving you to figure out what the hell to do about it all. Do you live your life defined by what they did to you? Do you hold out hope that one day you'll be able to turn the tables? Do you try to move on? Do you seek forgiveness?
I think the most optimistic possible version of Succession was always going to be: his kids find a way to genuinely forgive him and move past him. I doubt that that's the show we're going to get, but who knows: this show's got a whole lot of heart. Maybe somebody finds a way to be okay. Maybe they all do. Or maybe they wind up as miserable and pathetic as Trump's kids almost surely will, clinging to their legacy as Logan's rich and semi-famous children, clinging to their resentments of a long-dead man, until even their shadows fade away.
That, or we're going to be in for the shock of our lives when MechaLogan shows up in the penultimate episode, bellowing the FUCK OFF that melts the Earth.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:55 AM on April 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
Logan's past hints at a man who was seriously abused, reacted by deciding he'd become stronger and fiercer than anybody in the room, and turned into a rotten, unbeatable man who made the world worse and made his children suffer, down to his final moments.
I don't think there's any beating him. The season 3 finale marked the moment when all his kids finally turned on him at once... and it still wasn't really enough. Logan was either going to die unrepentant or it was going to be a Ken murder-suicide. There was no universe where they one-upped him in any way.
The karaoke scene in the episode before this one was as close as we were going to get: Logan trying and failing to find a way to mouth genuine apologies, his kids digging into him more viciously for his efforts, and that final rejoinder from him to them that, while he does love them, he finds it impossible to take them seriously.
Maybe some people have fond memories of finally overcoming the monsters from their families and childhoods, but the far-more-common thing that happens is: someone fucks you up, you hate and resent and obsess over them, and then it just... lingers. Maybe they die, and you get that one final moment of realizing that there is no final chapter, no closure, no confrontation where it all turns out to have been worth it in the end. And maybe they don't die. Maybe they're just out there in the world somewhere, being monstrous to other people—or, more painfully, being kind and loving to them—leaving you to figure out what the hell to do about it all. Do you live your life defined by what they did to you? Do you hold out hope that one day you'll be able to turn the tables? Do you try to move on? Do you seek forgiveness?
I think the most optimistic possible version of Succession was always going to be: his kids find a way to genuinely forgive him and move past him. I doubt that that's the show we're going to get, but who knows: this show's got a whole lot of heart. Maybe somebody finds a way to be okay. Maybe they all do. Or maybe they wind up as miserable and pathetic as Trump's kids almost surely will, clinging to their legacy as Logan's rich and semi-famous children, clinging to their resentments of a long-dead man, until even their shadows fade away.
That, or we're going to be in for the shock of our lives when MechaLogan shows up in the penultimate episode, bellowing the FUCK OFF that melts the Earth.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:55 AM on April 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids?
Well, Brian Cox was disappointed, anyway:
For his part, Cox was surprised and disappointed to see Logan die at this juncture, and thinks the audience will struggle with the twist: “I feel they’re gonna find it tough. They’ve lived with Logan for so long. They’re going to miss him.”
He tempered that a bit in an NYT interview:
I think it’s going to be hard next week for a lot of the audience because they’re going to miss Logan. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing — I think that’s actually quite a good thing.
Both interviews probably happened around the same time, so it may just be phrasing. I agree with the 2nd quote more than the first; this is what the show needed to get out of the "Logan vs. his weakling kids" rut.
posted by mediareport at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well, Brian Cox was disappointed, anyway:
For his part, Cox was surprised and disappointed to see Logan die at this juncture, and thinks the audience will struggle with the twist: “I feel they’re gonna find it tough. They’ve lived with Logan for so long. They’re going to miss him.”
He tempered that a bit in an NYT interview:
I think it’s going to be hard next week for a lot of the audience because they’re going to miss Logan. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing — I think that’s actually quite a good thing.
Both interviews probably happened around the same time, so it may just be phrasing. I agree with the 2nd quote more than the first; this is what the show needed to get out of the "Logan vs. his weakling kids" rut.
posted by mediareport at 6:58 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some assorted odds and ends from this episode:
— I hope I wasn't the only one to find Colin's forlorn face a little heartbreaking. :(
— After the interview Justine Lupe gave where she says that she thinks Willa genuinely loves Connor, in her way, I couldn't help but think that, in her conversation with Connor here, she genuinely gives him the truth: yes, she's primarily in this relationship for money and safety, but she also has real fondness for him, and maybe even (a pale kind of) love. And after what Connor said in the last episode, I want to believe that, after a lifetime of no love whatsoever, what Willa shows him really is enough to make him happy. It's still pathetically little... but it's something, at least.
— Tom was very gentle and tender in his delivery of this news. I know I'm a sicko for hoping that he and Shiv wind up happy together, but come on, Shiv, give him more than that glare, yes i know it's a rough day for you and your family
— The real moral of this show is to never fire anybody who's worked with you for decades and then immediately go up into the air. Seems like that's the combo that got Logan both times.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:02 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
— I hope I wasn't the only one to find Colin's forlorn face a little heartbreaking. :(
— After the interview Justine Lupe gave where she says that she thinks Willa genuinely loves Connor, in her way, I couldn't help but think that, in her conversation with Connor here, she genuinely gives him the truth: yes, she's primarily in this relationship for money and safety, but she also has real fondness for him, and maybe even (a pale kind of) love. And after what Connor said in the last episode, I want to believe that, after a lifetime of no love whatsoever, what Willa shows him really is enough to make him happy. It's still pathetically little... but it's something, at least.
— Tom was very gentle and tender in his delivery of this news. I know I'm a sicko for hoping that he and Shiv wind up happy together, but come on, Shiv, give him more than that glare, yes i know it's a rough day for you and your family
— The real moral of this show is to never fire anybody who's worked with you for decades and then immediately go up into the air. Seems like that's the combo that got Logan both times.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:02 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Thanks, BibiRose and THCBT. I was hoping for character evolution, for one or more of the kids to develop the heart, spine or ruthlessness to out-do the old man, to become the monster their dad was, and wanted. (We recently re-watched Whiplash, and maybe that's on my mind.) I remember thinking S2 Kendall, when he slagged dad after the cruise ship revelation, might be getting there.
But it sounds like if I'd stuck with the show, watched S3 and the karaoke ep, this would make sense. Maybe I'll give it another shot. Thanks again.
posted by martin q blank at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2023
But it sounds like if I'd stuck with the show, watched S3 and the karaoke ep, this would make sense. Maybe I'll give it another shot. Thanks again.
posted by martin q blank at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2023
Why were there so few guests at Connor's wedding?
There's a couple of scenes about that. There were a lot of guests; all the folks on the boat. Then Logan died and they cancelled the wedding. Then Connor and Willia have a heartbreakingly honest conversation which ends with them agreeing to "make something good out of something bad". Cut to scene of a nearly empty wedding. The implication is they cancelled the wedding and the party, then got married with just a few friends anyway.
Here's a screen grab from the wedding itself. 16 people total, including the couple. Maybe 6 of them aren't in the wedding party. None of them seem to be Roys, not even Cousin Greg.
PS: the LA Times has removed the Logan Roy headline from the front page of their site. Too late, damage done. I bet they thought they were so clever.
posted by Nelson at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
There's a couple of scenes about that. There were a lot of guests; all the folks on the boat. Then Logan died and they cancelled the wedding. Then Connor and Willia have a heartbreakingly honest conversation which ends with them agreeing to "make something good out of something bad". Cut to scene of a nearly empty wedding. The implication is they cancelled the wedding and the party, then got married with just a few friends anyway.
Here's a screen grab from the wedding itself. 16 people total, including the couple. Maybe 6 of them aren't in the wedding party. None of them seem to be Roys, not even Cousin Greg.
PS: the LA Times has removed the Logan Roy headline from the front page of their site. Too late, damage done. I bet they thought they were so clever.
posted by Nelson at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
— I hope I wasn't the only one to find Colin's forlorn face a little heartbreaking. :(
That just jumped off the screen, for me.
posted by BibiRose at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
That just jumped off the screen, for me.
posted by BibiRose at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wow. Having just learned in this thread that Jesse Armstrong also created Peep Show makes the overarching plot of Succession make so much sense. Peep Show was never afraid to not tie up loose ends, not go for the obvious conclusion to any plot point, or demonstrate that the show's nominal protagonists are incapable of personal growth.
posted by zsazsa at 7:29 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 7:29 AM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids?
I'd be surprised if the rest of the season weren't exactly that, with Logan's will or succession plan or whatever they end up calling it turning out to be his final "Fuck you" to the kids and them having to constantly find ways around or through it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on April 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'd be surprised if the rest of the season weren't exactly that, with Logan's will or succession plan or whatever they end up calling it turning out to be his final "Fuck you" to the kids and them having to constantly find ways around or through it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on April 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm curious -- as bold a plot choice as this is, aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father?
Honestly, I feel like that's kind of life. You keep hoping for some big loud confrontation that will make them finally see you as your own person/care about you as you are/acknowledge all the bad stuff they did and are doing but it's a fantasy. But it was never going to happen. You have to realize at some point that the version of the parent who would have been capable of doing any of that never existed, then figure out how you're going to live the rest of your life knowing that. Hopefully the kids (as awful as they can be) manage it. I felt for Connor when his first reaction to the news was "he never liked me."
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 9:00 AM on April 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Honestly, I feel like that's kind of life. You keep hoping for some big loud confrontation that will make them finally see you as your own person/care about you as you are/acknowledge all the bad stuff they did and are doing but it's a fantasy. But it was never going to happen. You have to realize at some point that the version of the parent who would have been capable of doing any of that never existed, then figure out how you're going to live the rest of your life knowing that. Hopefully the kids (as awful as they can be) manage it. I felt for Connor when his first reaction to the news was "he never liked me."
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 9:00 AM on April 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
I thought it was a fitting an end for a tyrant, and for the reasons others have already mentioned, glad they did this in episode 3 rather than nearer the end. Now the siblings are particularly well set up for a protracted battle over succession, despite their unity in their shock/grief. Likewise, the various 'suits' will likely be debating what moves to make, what allegiances to form - in short, Logan's death opens up a number of potential plot developments.
I thought this episode did a good job portraying what it must be like when an infamous person dies - like perhaps others, while I know Murdoch is the main model here, I couldn't help but thinking "This will be sorta like when Trump dies." I enjoyed watching the balancing act the 'suits' play in terms of handling the kids - they clearly would prefer to orchestrate all of the optics of this moment and keep the kids as far away from any decisions as possible, but they also don't want to ruffle the kids. Kendall, to his credit, is the one who is the most clear-eyed in this episode - he realizes the importance of making the right moves, when the business world will be closely watching.
come on, Shiv, give him more than that glare
I guess I'd have to rewatch it, but I read her expression as softening when Tom graciously absorbs her anger/grief laden barb - which she then follows up on when turns to Tom later for a hug.
posted by coffeecat at 9:07 AM on April 10, 2023
I thought this episode did a good job portraying what it must be like when an infamous person dies - like perhaps others, while I know Murdoch is the main model here, I couldn't help but thinking "This will be sorta like when Trump dies." I enjoyed watching the balancing act the 'suits' play in terms of handling the kids - they clearly would prefer to orchestrate all of the optics of this moment and keep the kids as far away from any decisions as possible, but they also don't want to ruffle the kids. Kendall, to his credit, is the one who is the most clear-eyed in this episode - he realizes the importance of making the right moves, when the business world will be closely watching.
come on, Shiv, give him more than that glare
I guess I'd have to rewatch it, but I read her expression as softening when Tom graciously absorbs her anger/grief laden barb - which she then follows up on when turns to Tom later for a hug.
posted by coffeecat at 9:07 AM on April 10, 2023
— I hope I wasn't the only one to find Colin's forlorn face a little heartbreaking. :(
One of the best scenes in the whole episode. Colin knows Logan Roy as well as or better than anyone. His pain and loss are real but in that moment he's invisible and inconsequential to the people that "matter."
I do think the show will suffer without Logan at the center. He's such a charismatic bastard. Everything will continue to revolve around him, but he won't be there. Having him die off camera was a brilliant move, though.
posted by Mavri at 9:51 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
One of the best scenes in the whole episode. Colin knows Logan Roy as well as or better than anyone. His pain and loss are real but in that moment he's invisible and inconsequential to the people that "matter."
I do think the show will suffer without Logan at the center. He's such a charismatic bastard. Everything will continue to revolve around him, but he won't be there. Having him die off camera was a brilliant move, though.
posted by Mavri at 9:51 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Season 4 is clearly the Connor Season. Officially now.
I somehow keep expecting Alan Ruck's face to do that Ted-Danson-reveal-at-the-end-of-season-one-of-The-Good-Place contortion.
The Willa-Connor boat was full of journalists among the invited guests, they probably figured out real quick that something serious was going down.
And a big Roy-sized "Fuck Off!" to the LA Times.
posted by chavenet at 11:07 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I somehow keep expecting Alan Ruck's face to do that Ted-Danson-reveal-at-the-end-of-season-one-of-The-Good-Place contortion.
The Willa-Connor boat was full of journalists among the invited guests, they probably figured out real quick that something serious was going down.
And a big Roy-sized "Fuck Off!" to the LA Times.
posted by chavenet at 11:07 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Are we going to be okay?
Yeah, Yeah. . . We'll be okay.
You're not going to be okay.
Well, you're not going to be okay either.
You're not going to be okay.
You're fucked.
You are fucked.
You're totally fucked.
You're very fucked.
posted by Stanczyk at 12:05 PM on April 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Yeah, Yeah. . . We'll be okay.
You're not going to be okay.
Well, you're not going to be okay either.
You're not going to be okay.
You're fucked.
You are fucked.
You're totally fucked.
You're very fucked.
posted by Stanczyk at 12:05 PM on April 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
aren't fans disappointed there won't be one final showdown between Logan and the kids? That they'd finally defeat that rotten bully of a father?
So I'm not exactly a fan. Biscotti really enjoys the show so I catch it in the background. I recognize that it's a SPECTACULARLY good show but I hate all the characters and want them all to die screaming.
It would never happen with this show, but I don't want the kids to defeat Logan or Logan to defeat the kids. I want The Revolution. I want S4 to be entirely them fleeing one step ahead of the commissars, to end up caught because the kids do something like order an omelette with a dozen eggs* because they're that deep into being clueless fuckwits, for the last scene to be their hanging and unceremonious disposal. Or I want them to elect their world's Trump analogue who promptly starts WW3 and S4 is them fleeing in nuclear wasteland until they get trapped and eaten alive by rats.
It's such a good show. I hate them all so much.
*SUPPOSABLY this is how they caught Condorcet when he was fleeing a later phase of the French Revolution and had almost escaped to Britain
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:41 PM on April 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
So I'm not exactly a fan. Biscotti really enjoys the show so I catch it in the background. I recognize that it's a SPECTACULARLY good show but I hate all the characters and want them all to die screaming.
It would never happen with this show, but I don't want the kids to defeat Logan or Logan to defeat the kids. I want The Revolution. I want S4 to be entirely them fleeing one step ahead of the commissars, to end up caught because the kids do something like order an omelette with a dozen eggs* because they're that deep into being clueless fuckwits, for the last scene to be their hanging and unceremonious disposal. Or I want them to elect their world's Trump analogue who promptly starts WW3 and S4 is them fleeing in nuclear wasteland until they get trapped and eaten alive by rats.
It's such a good show. I hate them all so much.
*SUPPOSABLY this is how they caught Condorcet when he was fleeing a later phase of the French Revolution and had almost escaped to Britain
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:41 PM on April 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
I hope I wasn't the only one to find Colin's forlorn face a little heartbreaking. :(
Poor Colin, may we all have someone in our lives who will remove an imaginary dead cat that we're hallucinating.
posted by wheek wheek wheek at 5:02 PM on April 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Poor Colin, may we all have someone in our lives who will remove an imaginary dead cat that we're hallucinating.
posted by wheek wheek wheek at 5:02 PM on April 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
In an episode brimming with outstanding, absorbing performances, I also thought that the moment with Colin’s forlorn expression stood out. The shot capturing it too: on the right, Colin, Logan’s protector, now bereft of the man he protected, and then on the left, Tom, the slimy climber whose first emotive word (to Greg) was about how he was no longer protected by Logan. Such awesome framing. Such a jammed 2-3 seconds in an hour of excellent acting and filmmaking.
posted by foodbedgospel at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by foodbedgospel at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oops — did not double-check my character names before posting. Looks like Colin is not the character I meant. Ah well — still, kudos to everyone making this episode.
posted by foodbedgospel at 6:53 PM on April 10, 2023
posted by foodbedgospel at 6:53 PM on April 10, 2023
Saw the headline but thought it would be the end of the episode so had the moment of shock, really, woah. There was a good bit of almost unspoken ultra-privilege, on a boat they did not even need to say "get us to Teterboro airport in minutes, and it just happens. After listening to the end discussion, the actors have deeper feelings than the actual children would, sociopaths all. Do hope that the one character that ends well this season is Willa.
Knives are out, should be a fun ride.
posted by sammyo at 7:12 PM on April 10, 2023
Knives are out, should be a fun ride.
posted by sammyo at 7:12 PM on April 10, 2023
I'm kind of a cynic about Willa and Con! She softened toward him a bit after the joy of having her play realized, and the humiliation of having it so poorly received. But even this season, she's shockingly disdainful of the guy she's marrying. (And yeah, it's Connor, so who wouldn't be -- but also maybe try to like your romantic partner? Am I such a romantic?) Seeing what Willa's mom is like, it makes me think she's resigning herself to a bit of a learned mercenary approach to get a good living standard. And saying "no, yeah, of course I like you" is part of that, right?
Otherwise, the show did a good job of telegraphing Logan's approaching mortality while keeping enough plot going that it still felt abrupt when he died. Unfortunately, it made for a pretty grim episode -- I get that it's tonally difficult to make this topic funny (unless they did a full Death of Stalin knockoff), but I hope the next episode has more humor.
I did laugh a lot at how Karolina and Tom scrambled to get rid of Kerry as soon as they knew Logan was dead. (FWIW I read Kerry's grin as an expression of the same shock everyone else was feeling, not "haha glad I secured millions before he died." I mean, it's Logan. He wouldn't even grant her a graveyard slot on his cable news channel!)
Interesting that (I think) Syd escaped knowledge of her almost-firing, but Gerri got knowledge of hers in the worst possible way.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:31 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, the show did a good job of telegraphing Logan's approaching mortality while keeping enough plot going that it still felt abrupt when he died. Unfortunately, it made for a pretty grim episode -- I get that it's tonally difficult to make this topic funny (unless they did a full Death of Stalin knockoff), but I hope the next episode has more humor.
I did laugh a lot at how Karolina and Tom scrambled to get rid of Kerry as soon as they knew Logan was dead. (FWIW I read Kerry's grin as an expression of the same shock everyone else was feeling, not "haha glad I secured millions before he died." I mean, it's Logan. He wouldn't even grant her a graveyard slot on his cable news channel!)
Interesting that (I think) Syd escaped knowledge of her almost-firing, but Gerri got knowledge of hers in the worst possible way.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:31 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
but also maybe try to like your romantic partner?
Well, that's the fundamental problem: they're not romantic partners. She was an escort Connor paid to live with him full time that Connor developed romantic feelings for, something she was very clearly uncomfortable with as shown many times over the course of the series. She seems to have finally come to accept a permanent (or at least more stable) version of the weird life they'd been living together, and she doesn't dislike Connor, but this isn't some romantic tale.
Speaking of Connor, damn are the other three kids cold motherfuckers. They didn't consider for a moment telling him about his father's death, not even when they went to go get Shiv who was talking to Connor. Literally no one even mentioned his name at all in the conversations between the kids and on the plane. Connor's hardly even an afterthought to his own family.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:44 PM on April 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Well, that's the fundamental problem: they're not romantic partners. She was an escort Connor paid to live with him full time that Connor developed romantic feelings for, something she was very clearly uncomfortable with as shown many times over the course of the series. She seems to have finally come to accept a permanent (or at least more stable) version of the weird life they'd been living together, and she doesn't dislike Connor, but this isn't some romantic tale.
Speaking of Connor, damn are the other three kids cold motherfuckers. They didn't consider for a moment telling him about his father's death, not even when they went to go get Shiv who was talking to Connor. Literally no one even mentioned his name at all in the conversations between the kids and on the plane. Connor's hardly even an afterthought to his own family.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:44 PM on April 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Like his children, I kept expecting it was some sort of test they failed and expected Logan to appear at the airplane door until they wheeled the body out.
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:28 PM on April 10, 2023
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:28 PM on April 10, 2023
I like how the episode, entitled "Connor's Wedding" started out being about that - then switched to Logan's demise - but still had time to loop back to an actual marriage - and that, despite everything else, it ends up being quite a happy occasion. I'd like to think Connor and Willa will still get some Napoleon and Josephine letters - apparently you can get a rather boring Napoleon letter for as little as $750 - but a spicy pair of letters between the couple might cost more like $50-60K.
posted by rongorongo at 10:37 PM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 10:37 PM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
- I loved the suggestion of a simple "off-the-shelf-funeral; Regan's with a few tweaks". I guess we are going to see how that goes!
- This episode could so easily have centred itself on Connor's wedding cake drama: The "inadequate" cake - "not for serving" with its "internal structure" on view? It all sounds like spoilt entitlement until we learn Logan had fed Connor sponge cake to calm him down when his mother was taken into mental care.
posted by rongorongo at 11:16 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
- This episode could so easily have centred itself on Connor's wedding cake drama: The "inadequate" cake - "not for serving" with its "internal structure" on view? It all sounds like spoilt entitlement until we learn Logan had fed Connor sponge cake to calm him down when his mother was taken into mental care.
posted by rongorongo at 11:16 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's such a good show. I hate them all so much.
You oughta check out Industry after this one ends, also by HBO!
posted by Apocryphon at 11:37 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
You oughta check out Industry after this one ends, also by HBO!
posted by Apocryphon at 11:37 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
“Are you a cunt?” The last words Roman said to his father and possibly the last words his father ever heard. A fitting end.
posted by chill at 12:15 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by chill at 12:15 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the behind-the-scenes footage that HBO releases every week, it's so insanely cute to see Mark Mylod and Kieran Culkin both insist that the other one had the idea to shoot the siblings' receiving the news as one 30-minute extended take.
Between that and the bit on the podcast where Mylod and Armstrong giggle at one another over the idea of sticking a kazoo into the scenes surrounding Logan's death, I can only conclude that the cast of Succession is not-so-secretly adorable.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 2:51 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Between that and the bit on the podcast where Mylod and Armstrong giggle at one another over the idea of sticking a kazoo into the scenes surrounding Logan's death, I can only conclude that the cast of Succession is not-so-secretly adorable.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 2:51 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
How did I not know there was an official Succession podcast? I am delighted, Firecrotch and Normcore is great, but I need more podcast based Succession discussion in my life.
posted by chill at 3:27 AM on April 11, 2023
posted by chill at 3:27 AM on April 11, 2023
Nicholas Braun, superficially the most adorable, may not be (tw: accusations of sex with minors).
posted by Klipspringer at 3:28 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Klipspringer at 3:28 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Often in shows when a parent/sibling/etc dies there's a foreshadowing scene when close relations say some especially good or bad things to each other. I'm struggling to think of examples but I know there have been times when me and Ms Fabius have turned to each other after such a scene and said, "Well, they're going to die now".
So it's so good there was nothing like that here. The karaoke scene could have done it, a pre-flight conversation on the phone could have done it, but no, no clue. So sudden, no foreshadowing. Excellent.
posted by fabius at 5:21 AM on April 11, 2023
So it's so good there was nothing like that here. The karaoke scene could have done it, a pre-flight conversation on the phone could have done it, but no, no clue. So sudden, no foreshadowing. Excellent.
posted by fabius at 5:21 AM on April 11, 2023
So it's so good there was nothing like that here. The karaoke scene could have done it, a pre-flight conversation on the phone could have done it, but no, no clue. So sudden, no foreshadowing. Excellent.
The only cue, in retrospect, is that the last we ever see of Logan is him getting onto the plane and vanishing. It's just as the title credits kick in: Logan says something about being more aggressive, he steps into the plane, he disappears from sight. Tom follows him, but the cut to credits happens literally as Tom's body makes contact with the doorframe.
It's the subtlest of visual cues, and only means anything in retrospect. You couldn't get quieter with it. It's perfect. God, what an episode.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:48 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The only cue, in retrospect, is that the last we ever see of Logan is him getting onto the plane and vanishing. It's just as the title credits kick in: Logan says something about being more aggressive, he steps into the plane, he disappears from sight. Tom follows him, but the cut to credits happens literally as Tom's body makes contact with the doorframe.
It's the subtlest of visual cues, and only means anything in retrospect. You couldn't get quieter with it. It's perfect. God, what an episode.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:48 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
They didn't consider for a moment telling him about his father's death, not even when they went to go get Shiv who was talking to Connor.
She was talking to some other random white guy when Kendall pulled her away.
posted by Etrigan at 6:37 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
She was talking to some other random white guy when Kendall pulled her away.
posted by Etrigan at 6:37 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
So sudden, no foreshadowing. Excellent
I can’t have been the only one thinking that the apparent death of Logan might just have been some kind of sick fake-out on his behalf, just to fuck with the kids and see what they would say by way of parting words to their dad. In fact the editing seemed to be set up to boost that idea - we see that CPR is apparently going on - but not initially on who. In the end, I think we the audience only comes to accept Logan has really died at about the same time as his children do. So the events progress not just in one 30 minute continuous sequence- but also with us seeing both ends of the phone call and still being none the wiser about the truth. In the end, I think that is exactly how Logan would wish to go. Very clever writing!
posted by rongorongo at 7:22 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I can’t have been the only one thinking that the apparent death of Logan might just have been some kind of sick fake-out on his behalf, just to fuck with the kids and see what they would say by way of parting words to their dad. In fact the editing seemed to be set up to boost that idea - we see that CPR is apparently going on - but not initially on who. In the end, I think we the audience only comes to accept Logan has really died at about the same time as his children do. So the events progress not just in one 30 minute continuous sequence- but also with us seeing both ends of the phone call and still being none the wiser about the truth. In the end, I think that is exactly how Logan would wish to go. Very clever writing!
posted by rongorongo at 7:22 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
In the end, I think we the audience only comes to accept Logan has really died at about the same time as his children do.
Exactly this. We've been through the initial confusion and disbelief, the scrabble for something concrete to latch on to (I was silently yelling "fucking tell Connor, you pricks" for about 10 minutes), then the deflation of the second half when the flurry of news from the plane has stopped — and now it just feels impossible that on Sunday he won't be in the episode, not corporeally at least.
posted by Klipspringer at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2023
Exactly this. We've been through the initial confusion and disbelief, the scrabble for something concrete to latch on to (I was silently yelling "fucking tell Connor, you pricks" for about 10 minutes), then the deflation of the second half when the flurry of news from the plane has stopped — and now it just feels impossible that on Sunday he won't be in the episode, not corporeally at least.
posted by Klipspringer at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2023
Roman himself remarks that it could be a fake-out
posted by Nelson at 7:57 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
What if this is a drill? What if it's a big fսcking test? You don't know.I love the chaos and uncertainty and how it is magnified by the device of having to relay everything through a cell phone (with a bad connection at first). It felt very true to my own experience of similar life threatening emergencies.
No. If it was a test, I'd say hats off to the planning department.
posted by Nelson at 7:57 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
She was talking to some other random white guy when Kendall pulled her away.
Yes, you're right. Still, like Klipspringer, I kept wondering when anyone was going to think to tell Connor. It was just "is Shiv there, find Shiv, tell Shiv".
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:16 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, you're right. Still, like Klipspringer, I kept wondering when anyone was going to think to tell Connor. It was just "is Shiv there, find Shiv, tell Shiv".
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:16 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
WOW. I not only didn't expect that, I went into the episode knowing there was going to be a twist, and I still felt like the twist was going to be that he was faking the attack to somehow get something out of the kids; that he was going to be fine. Which, of course not - for all of his manipulations, and all the genuinely insane plot twists, it's not that kind of show. I also watched it back to back with the previous episode, so I went in with such a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach for Roman for again falling for Logan's promises to be "the one" to run the company... and then to see this happen. For Roman, there was so much riding on Logan not dying then. Not least, where does he stand in the company now, where hours before he (thought he) was in charge?
The acting was just spectacular. For me, Shiv was the standout, with her combination of grief and disbelief and anger and unfinished business, but every one of them - the way they each handled their time on the phone (or not on the phone) with Logan in particular. I know a lot has to do with the excellent writing as well, but it was so well conveyed, each one of them not knowing what you say to someone when you have split motivations - the thing you want most to say if you never get to talk to them again, the thing you need to say if he recovers and remembers what you said in the clutch, just to protect yourself, and the thing you have to say to keep yourself whole, because there are things you can't just forgive in a one way conversation - and if he can't hear you, this is a confessional. I know I need to watch it again.
I was also shocked that no one included Connor in the moment or the call. I couldn't wrap my head around it. But I loved (and also was appalled by) how Tom told Greg: Your uncle's dead so I need you to go to the office and deal with my garbage asap.
And oh, Kerry. You get nothing. If she wasn't on the airplane at the time I imagine she would be treated with even less dignity than that.
posted by Mchelly at 8:18 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
The acting was just spectacular. For me, Shiv was the standout, with her combination of grief and disbelief and anger and unfinished business, but every one of them - the way they each handled their time on the phone (or not on the phone) with Logan in particular. I know a lot has to do with the excellent writing as well, but it was so well conveyed, each one of them not knowing what you say to someone when you have split motivations - the thing you want most to say if you never get to talk to them again, the thing you need to say if he recovers and remembers what you said in the clutch, just to protect yourself, and the thing you have to say to keep yourself whole, because there are things you can't just forgive in a one way conversation - and if he can't hear you, this is a confessional. I know I need to watch it again.
I was also shocked that no one included Connor in the moment or the call. I couldn't wrap my head around it. But I loved (and also was appalled by) how Tom told Greg: Your uncle's dead so I need you to go to the office and deal with my garbage asap.
And oh, Kerry. You get nothing. If she wasn't on the airplane at the time I imagine she would be treated with even less dignity than that.
posted by Mchelly at 8:18 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I didn’t watch until Monday night and avoided spoilers despite seeing think pieces in the places I usually go for news. Before we turned it on, I said to my husband, “I don’t think Logan is going to die.” And my husband knew and he didn’t spoil it for me, god bless him.
It felt very real. I’ve been on the receiving end of a similar phone call. When I saw Shiv decline Tom’s call and him call right back, I thought this isn’t good. It was interesting how in some ways, this is the most predictable, least surprising thing in the world - an 80 (?) year old dude with preexisting health problems died - but it felt fresh.
I thought it was brilliantly written. The characters reacted as expected, including Kerry’s uncomfortable not knowing what to do while grinning and Colin’s glum “now what?” expression. I thought Kendall was the right amount of strategic (whatever we do today will always be the thing we did the day our dad died). I was a little surprised no one completely melted down.
There were so many little moments that were heartbreaking - Kendall’s “Shivvy honey …”, Roman saying “you were a great dad”, then not wanting to accept it. I was mad that Kendall’s last words included “I don’t forgive you” but that makes sense, just like Shiv saying there’s no excuse for what he did and Roman realizing he didn’t say I love you.
I would not have grabbed Connor (or I would have looped him in when they did). I would have looped Gerri in earlier. Yeah she just got fired (or pre-fired) but I feel like she and Frank are basically family (arguably more so than Tom and Greg).
What is in Tom’s logistics folder?! My first thought was things he could use to blackmail Logan but that seems too pat. I feel like we’re going to find out because a thing we know about Greg is he doesn’t get rid of things when Tom tells him to. What would Tom have that would need to be deleted when Logan died? Also Tom, I know very few things but unlike paper records, deleting something from trash doesn’t mean it’s gone forever.
posted by kat518 at 8:22 AM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
It felt very real. I’ve been on the receiving end of a similar phone call. When I saw Shiv decline Tom’s call and him call right back, I thought this isn’t good. It was interesting how in some ways, this is the most predictable, least surprising thing in the world - an 80 (?) year old dude with preexisting health problems died - but it felt fresh.
I thought it was brilliantly written. The characters reacted as expected, including Kerry’s uncomfortable not knowing what to do while grinning and Colin’s glum “now what?” expression. I thought Kendall was the right amount of strategic (whatever we do today will always be the thing we did the day our dad died). I was a little surprised no one completely melted down.
There were so many little moments that were heartbreaking - Kendall’s “Shivvy honey …”, Roman saying “you were a great dad”, then not wanting to accept it. I was mad that Kendall’s last words included “I don’t forgive you” but that makes sense, just like Shiv saying there’s no excuse for what he did and Roman realizing he didn’t say I love you.
I would not have grabbed Connor (or I would have looped him in when they did). I would have looped Gerri in earlier. Yeah she just got fired (or pre-fired) but I feel like she and Frank are basically family (arguably more so than Tom and Greg).
What is in Tom’s logistics folder?! My first thought was things he could use to blackmail Logan but that seems too pat. I feel like we’re going to find out because a thing we know about Greg is he doesn’t get rid of things when Tom tells him to. What would Tom have that would need to be deleted when Logan died? Also Tom, I know very few things but unlike paper records, deleting something from trash doesn’t mean it’s gone forever.
posted by kat518 at 8:22 AM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
What would Tom have that would need to be deleted when Logan died?
All I can think of is some kind of mutually-assured destruction info that Tom (thought he) had on Logan, and if Logan is dead, its existence is only a threat to Tom.
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
All I can think of is some kind of mutually-assured destruction info that Tom (thought he) had on Logan, and if Logan is dead, its existence is only a threat to Tom.
posted by Etrigan at 8:48 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Insane that he has that info on a computer he doesn't control and that Greg can fully access.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:53 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:53 AM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Tom believes at the core of his being that he has beaten Greg into total submission. Greg is going to knife him so hard in the final or penultimate episode. Possibly literally.
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 AM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 AM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
What is in Tom’s logistics folder?!
My first thought was that it's logistics for firing Syd.
posted by zsazsa at 9:02 AM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
My first thought was that it's logistics for firing Syd.
posted by zsazsa at 9:02 AM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I thought it was so well done, that sense of panic and frustration in how you couldn't hear exactly what was going on, everyone talking at once, bad connection, etc. So real. Interesting that it was shot in one go, I was wondering if it was improv'd or very loosely scripted. It hit me pretty hard as my own 84 yr old dad died in August and I'd missed the initial 6am phonecall, which I still feel awful about, because I have my do-not-disturb on until 7:30am (any buzzing notification wrecks my sleep for the night) so my wife's phone rang with the 2nd or 3rd hand news, confusion, grief, weird incomplete details etc. and then going to the hospital with my mom to see his body where I absolutely lost my shit. This felt like that. Anyhow great episode but yeah, won't watch again.
posted by chococat at 9:26 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by chococat at 9:26 AM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I love the discrepancies in how different people see the Tom/Greg relationship. I'm honestly not positive that my take on it (which is that Tom has genuine affection for Greg) is correct. But I saw that call as Tom reaching out to Greg because he has nobody else he can confide in.
I could be wrong: maybe Tom just sees Greg as his outlet for all the emotions he can't reveal to anybody else. And whether or not I am wrong, I could see Greg being feckless enough to betray Tom anyway, since Greg is kind of a piece of shit. (Have we seen him show genuine empathy towards Tom since he told Tom about Shiv's affair in season 1? Did he do a single kind thing towards Tom in seasons 2 or 3?)
I want that to be wrong, though. I want Greg and Tom to end up as buddies. Even if my wanting that makes me feel like it won't happen.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 10:03 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I could be wrong: maybe Tom just sees Greg as his outlet for all the emotions he can't reveal to anybody else. And whether or not I am wrong, I could see Greg being feckless enough to betray Tom anyway, since Greg is kind of a piece of shit. (Have we seen him show genuine empathy towards Tom since he told Tom about Shiv's affair in season 1? Did he do a single kind thing towards Tom in seasons 2 or 3?)
I want that to be wrong, though. I want Greg and Tom to end up as buddies. Even if my wanting that makes me feel like it won't happen.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 10:03 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I love the discrepancies in how different people see the Tom/Greg relationship.
It's because there really aren't any discrepancies.
Tom is horrifically abusive and belittling towards Greg. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a constant element of the show. Tom in general is a very cruel man; recall that he once used a subordinate as a human footstool. He has been shown time and again treating pretty much everyone he views as lesser than him terribly.
However, Tom also has a weird affection for Greg, which I think stems from his tendencies noted above: because he views Greg as his inferior, he feels free to connect with him and open up to him in ways he never could with the Roys, who he views as his superiors and is always on edge around. He views Greg as his doofus sidekick who he will bring up alongside himself as he rises to the top, so being vulnerable to Greg is therefore no threat to Tom.
The problem is that he's wrong about Greg on two points, as we've already seen in the show. First, Greg is not perfectly subservient and loyal to Tom in the ways Tom seems to believe, which has already hurt Tom before and certainly will again when Greg takes actions for his own benefit that Tom doesn't expect. Second, whatever the current appearances, Greg is always superior to Tom within the universe of the company because he is a Roy. Even a doofus family member is still a family member, and Tom will always be a climbing outsider.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
It's because there really aren't any discrepancies.
Tom is horrifically abusive and belittling towards Greg. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a constant element of the show. Tom in general is a very cruel man; recall that he once used a subordinate as a human footstool. He has been shown time and again treating pretty much everyone he views as lesser than him terribly.
However, Tom also has a weird affection for Greg, which I think stems from his tendencies noted above: because he views Greg as his inferior, he feels free to connect with him and open up to him in ways he never could with the Roys, who he views as his superiors and is always on edge around. He views Greg as his doofus sidekick who he will bring up alongside himself as he rises to the top, so being vulnerable to Greg is therefore no threat to Tom.
The problem is that he's wrong about Greg on two points, as we've already seen in the show. First, Greg is not perfectly subservient and loyal to Tom in the ways Tom seems to believe, which has already hurt Tom before and certainly will again when Greg takes actions for his own benefit that Tom doesn't expect. Second, whatever the current appearances, Greg is always superior to Tom within the universe of the company because he is a Roy. Even a doofus family member is still a family member, and Tom will always be a climbing outsider.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
Random thoughts on Tom and Greg and Shiv:
- Tom has told us what he thinks of Greg. Tom is Nero and Greg is Sporus, the pretty slave boy he castrated and dressed as the wife he killed. (Nero kicked Poppaea to death; Tom betrayed Shiv to Logan.) If there is affection there, it is of the twisted-owner-toward-subservient-pet kind, not the human-human kind. They don't end up buddies. IMO.
- with the wider family and business, Greg's one advantage - his Roy blood and his usefulness in upsetting Logan's hated brother - is now gone. The siblings (rightly) see him as a leech, a useless parasite they despise and can't bear to hear from, or see (feet especially), or be touched by (Shiv, this ep). He's as fucked as Tom is, right?
- but, question: what does Tom mean in the lines "Merry Christmas Greg / you've lucked out / what's at the bottom of your stocking, huh? An old guy who fucking hated you". Tom is definitely in spiteful lashing-out mode, having lost his protector, but I can't really parse the meaning?
- a pal told me Shiv is zoomed-in on drinking water the whole episode (haven't verified myself). Last episode, she declines wine for club soda, and in the first episode says "it's not good for me" when Tom wants to talk relationship endings. When Nero kicked his wife to death, she was pregnant. Is something going on? It feels too soapy. And Tom and Shiv didn't have sex in ep1, despite his plaintive offer. But...?
posted by Klipspringer at 11:32 AM on April 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
- Tom has told us what he thinks of Greg. Tom is Nero and Greg is Sporus, the pretty slave boy he castrated and dressed as the wife he killed. (Nero kicked Poppaea to death; Tom betrayed Shiv to Logan.) If there is affection there, it is of the twisted-owner-toward-subservient-pet kind, not the human-human kind. They don't end up buddies. IMO.
- with the wider family and business, Greg's one advantage - his Roy blood and his usefulness in upsetting Logan's hated brother - is now gone. The siblings (rightly) see him as a leech, a useless parasite they despise and can't bear to hear from, or see (feet especially), or be touched by (Shiv, this ep). He's as fucked as Tom is, right?
- but, question: what does Tom mean in the lines "Merry Christmas Greg / you've lucked out / what's at the bottom of your stocking, huh? An old guy who fucking hated you". Tom is definitely in spiteful lashing-out mode, having lost his protector, but I can't really parse the meaning?
- a pal told me Shiv is zoomed-in on drinking water the whole episode (haven't verified myself). Last episode, she declines wine for club soda, and in the first episode says "it's not good for me" when Tom wants to talk relationship endings. When Nero kicked his wife to death, she was pregnant. Is something going on? It feels too soapy. And Tom and Shiv didn't have sex in ep1, despite his plaintive offer. But...?
posted by Klipspringer at 11:32 AM on April 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Could documentation about the cruise line deaths still be out there, latent? Maybe that's what's in the Logistics folder. Maybe Tom got them (back?) from Greg and kept them as leverage against Logan. If those come to light now, they would be leverage only over Tom because he knowingly covered it up at the Congressional investigation.
My only big problem with this episode is that Succession's instigating event in season 1 (episode 2) was Logan's stroke/heart attack/what have you. At that point massive gears would have gone into motion about strategizing the market ramification of his death, messaging, PR, chain of communication, etc. And that would have (should have) been something the board was keeping fresh all along. So the weird power play between Karolina/Frank/Karl in the air, and the kids on the ground about "who's gonna write it" felt contrived.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:50 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
My only big problem with this episode is that Succession's instigating event in season 1 (episode 2) was Logan's stroke/heart attack/what have you. At that point massive gears would have gone into motion about strategizing the market ramification of his death, messaging, PR, chain of communication, etc. And that would have (should have) been something the board was keeping fresh all along. So the weird power play between Karolina/Frank/Karl in the air, and the kids on the ground about "who's gonna write it" felt contrived.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:50 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I feel like the whole show up to this point has been about everyone failing to accept or prepare for Logan's mortality. I buy it.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:04 PM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:04 PM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
...was Greg on the outs with Logan? Or was Tom, as ever, just fucking with Greg's head? I would bet anything Tom is the only person controlling whether or not Greg was on the plane. Kerry was furious with Greg, but I don't see her confiding to Logan about that. I think the moment Kerry started complaining to Logan about her screen test would be the moment he would lose a lot of interest in her. (Also -- Logan told Tom to take care of it. If Logan heard another word about it, Tom would be the one in the line of fire.)
Given that Greg lost his inheritance to Greenpeace (lmao), I don't think he is useful to anyone beyond Tom. The Schrodinger's deleted Logistics file is the only possible exception, and even that would be more useful for killing Tom than elevating anyone else. FWIW I think it's a genuine relationship in that Tom and Greg are each other's only friends. But this echoes Logan's many relationships; relationships can be affectionate and still be awful.
I can excuse Waystar-Royco's response because it is run less as a corporation than as a dictatorship, and the dictator just died. Kendall is a business-themed Barbie doll, but he was a likely enough successor in S1 that a lot of the board and upper level management signed on to him. By S2, all those people had been replaced or returned to Logan. Maybe Logan actively pushed out anyone who suggested he wouldn't be in charge forever, and everyone was too afraid of betrayal to quietly sketch out some succession plans on a napkin. (Also -- uh, is Gerri technically in charge still? Maybe there was a succession plan for Gerri leaving the top post.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:05 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Given that Greg lost his inheritance to Greenpeace (lmao), I don't think he is useful to anyone beyond Tom. The Schrodinger's deleted Logistics file is the only possible exception, and even that would be more useful for killing Tom than elevating anyone else. FWIW I think it's a genuine relationship in that Tom and Greg are each other's only friends. But this echoes Logan's many relationships; relationships can be affectionate and still be awful.
I can excuse Waystar-Royco's response because it is run less as a corporation than as a dictatorship, and the dictator just died. Kendall is a business-themed Barbie doll, but he was a likely enough successor in S1 that a lot of the board and upper level management signed on to him. By S2, all those people had been replaced or returned to Logan. Maybe Logan actively pushed out anyone who suggested he wouldn't be in charge forever, and everyone was too afraid of betrayal to quietly sketch out some succession plans on a napkin. (Also -- uh, is Gerri technically in charge still? Maybe there was a succession plan for Gerri leaving the top post.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:05 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
cocoagirl: my take is that powerful people don't allow underlings to make plans for their demise. Speaking it could hasten it. To "compass or imagine" the death of the King is treason.
(Real life imitates art: last summer I watched Nicola Sturgeon interview Brian Cox at a book festival. Now, after a decade of absolute unquestioned domination as First Minister of Scotland, running her party with her husband like a family firm, she suddenly quits — and it transpires no plans were made for succession, the candidates are unvetted bigots or inept failsons, shady financial dealings have been swept under the carpet, and her party is generally thought to be fucked.)
posted by Klipspringer at 12:12 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
(Real life imitates art: last summer I watched Nicola Sturgeon interview Brian Cox at a book festival. Now, after a decade of absolute unquestioned domination as First Minister of Scotland, running her party with her husband like a family firm, she suddenly quits — and it transpires no plans were made for succession, the candidates are unvetted bigots or inept failsons, shady financial dealings have been swept under the carpet, and her party is generally thought to be fucked.)
posted by Klipspringer at 12:12 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
...was Greg on the outs with Logan?
Hard to say. Sometimes, especially earlier in the series, Logan was clearly disgusted by (or at least barely tolerant of) Greg's naked neediness. But more recently Logan seemed kind of amused by Greg's antics (e.g., he seemed to find Greg's "confession" about sex during his party funny).
It would be very funny if Logan gave Greg a significant part of his estate just to fuck with his kids, say just enough to put Greg on the Board and make him a potential swing vote, and suddenly everyone has to court Greg.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:47 PM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hard to say. Sometimes, especially earlier in the series, Logan was clearly disgusted by (or at least barely tolerant of) Greg's naked neediness. But more recently Logan seemed kind of amused by Greg's antics (e.g., he seemed to find Greg's "confession" about sex during his party funny).
It would be very funny if Logan gave Greg a significant part of his estate just to fuck with his kids, say just enough to put Greg on the Board and make him a potential swing vote, and suddenly everyone has to court Greg.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:47 PM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
When Nero kicked his wife to death, she was pregnant.
!!! I just went down a is-Shiv-pregnant?! rabbit hole. I could see it.
posted by kat518 at 2:03 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
!!! I just went down a is-Shiv-pregnant?! rabbit hole. I could see it.
posted by kat518 at 2:03 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ok speaking of that confession, do we know for sure if Logan has the house outfitted with cameras or was Tom fucking with Greg?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:08 PM on April 11, 2023
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:08 PM on April 11, 2023
Tom was 100% fucking with Greg.
posted by Klipspringer at 2:20 PM on April 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Klipspringer at 2:20 PM on April 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
I thought Greg might be on the outs with Logan for his shitty job telling Kerry she’s not anchor material.
posted by kat518 at 2:37 PM on April 11, 2023
posted by kat518 at 2:37 PM on April 11, 2023
If that were the case I would assume his anger would be directed at Tom, who delegated poorly.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:03 PM on April 11, 2023
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:03 PM on April 11, 2023
He was so stone-faced serious when he was describing Logan's security system, too. Tom has really redirected the agonizing anguish from his failed marriage into the only thing that gives him joy: fucking with Greg
posted by Apocryphon at 4:06 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 4:06 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Daily Mail apparently followed the LA Times' lead: tweet
posted by Apocryphon at 4:21 PM on April 11, 2023
posted by Apocryphon at 4:21 PM on April 11, 2023
I'm sad Logan interrupted karaoke before we got to see what songs Shiv, Ken, and Roman would have chosen.
Shiv crumples into Tom when she sees him, but I think she straightens reminding herself that Tom was with her father when he died instead of her. And yeah, both readings of that: that Tom betrayed her and wasn't at her side in moving against Logan; and that she should have been the one at Logan's side, in his good graces when he died. I think that'll be landing like another betrayal.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:53 AM on April 12, 2023
Shiv crumples into Tom when she sees him, but I think she straightens reminding herself that Tom was with her father when he died instead of her. And yeah, both readings of that: that Tom betrayed her and wasn't at her side in moving against Logan; and that she should have been the one at Logan's side, in his good graces when he died. I think that'll be landing like another betrayal.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:53 AM on April 12, 2023
After many episodes of showing spectacularly awkward body language between the siblings - I think this may be the first episode where we see Kendal, Shiv and Roman give each other a hug.
posted by rongorongo at 7:48 AM on April 12, 2023
posted by rongorongo at 7:48 AM on April 12, 2023
I think the only thing that unites them more than how much they hate their father is how much they love him. This episode is possibly the only one in which we feel sympathy for all the kids at the same time.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:06 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:06 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm kind of a cynic about Willa and Con! She softened toward him a bit after the joy of having her play realized, and the humiliation of having it so poorly received. But even this season, she's shockingly disdainful of the guy she's marrying. (And yeah, it's Connor, so who wouldn't be -- but also maybe try to like your romantic partner? Am I such a romantic?) Seeing what Willa's mom is like, it makes me think she's resigning herself to a bit of a learned mercenary approach to get a good living standard. And saying "no, yeah, of course I like you" is part of that, right?
In a way, it's sweet how honest she is to him. As others have said, she doesn't owe him that, she was an escort who he asked to live with him and at every step she has been uncomfortable with it. If anything, if she was more mercenary she'd just go along with it completely, get married (probably with a generous prenup because Con is a big soft dummy) and make her money. It's actually romantic the degree to which she's uncomfortable because it's a sign of her affection for him, she doesn't want him to be this pathetic.
The problem is that he's wrong about Greg on two points, as we've already seen in the show. First, Greg is not perfectly subservient and loyal to Tom in the ways Tom seems to believe, which has already hurt Tom before and certainly will again when Greg takes actions for his own benefit that Tom doesn't expect. Second, whatever the current appearances, Greg is always superior to Tom within the universe of the company because he is a Roy. Even a doofus family member is still a family member, and Tom will always be a climbing outsider.
It isn't genuinely clear whether the inheritance to Greenpeace thing actually every happened... there was certainly a threat to do just that but did it actually happen? If not, then the parallel character for Tom is actually Kerry more than anything. The moment he gets divorced from Shiv he's... what exactly? That "unconscionable" pre-nup he signed means that whatever lawyer he gets to challenge it is going to be fighting uphill, he's definitely not going to be living like a billionaire anymore nor will he have a big voting block of shares.
That's what makes their dynamic so interesting, Tom is naturally a bully and Greg is naturally a bully-magnet and even more of a hayseed than Tom (and the fact that Tom *is* a hayseed if why he's such a keen observer of that kind of thing - no way that Kendall or one of the other kids notices a comically large handbag or other signs of not belonging)
Kendall is a business-themed Barbie doll, but he was a likely enough successor in S1 that a lot of the board and upper level management signed on to him.
I think what makes each of the kids compelling is that they all have some shard of Logan's capability.
Ken knows all the superficial right words to say about structure and business plans and MBA language and could surely run a decent spreadsheet valuation model if he had to but his instinct for the actual substance of the business is just completely absent. He also can never stay sober enough for long enough to deploy the flashes of killer instinct. What I thought was instructive in S1 was how he does drugs with his buddy Stewie but how the latter but crucially not Ken is able to not use when important business is being conducted. Two very different relationships with substances.
Roman has the instinctive reactionary mean-ness to potentially run a really awful news-room but none of the executive skills.
Shiv actually understands the real world of media and politics, she usually has the fewest illusions about what really is and isn't possible or acceptable but could never bring herself to run the evil empire the way it has to be.
Part of the message is the corrosive effect of their wealth and position on their own self-worth, not because they are completely incapable human beings, that would just be a comedy, but precisely because if they weren't put in a place of such elevated expectations, they clearly do have the skills to have done something with their lives.
posted by atrazine at 8:48 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
In a way, it's sweet how honest she is to him. As others have said, she doesn't owe him that, she was an escort who he asked to live with him and at every step she has been uncomfortable with it. If anything, if she was more mercenary she'd just go along with it completely, get married (probably with a generous prenup because Con is a big soft dummy) and make her money. It's actually romantic the degree to which she's uncomfortable because it's a sign of her affection for him, she doesn't want him to be this pathetic.
The problem is that he's wrong about Greg on two points, as we've already seen in the show. First, Greg is not perfectly subservient and loyal to Tom in the ways Tom seems to believe, which has already hurt Tom before and certainly will again when Greg takes actions for his own benefit that Tom doesn't expect. Second, whatever the current appearances, Greg is always superior to Tom within the universe of the company because he is a Roy. Even a doofus family member is still a family member, and Tom will always be a climbing outsider.
It isn't genuinely clear whether the inheritance to Greenpeace thing actually every happened... there was certainly a threat to do just that but did it actually happen? If not, then the parallel character for Tom is actually Kerry more than anything. The moment he gets divorced from Shiv he's... what exactly? That "unconscionable" pre-nup he signed means that whatever lawyer he gets to challenge it is going to be fighting uphill, he's definitely not going to be living like a billionaire anymore nor will he have a big voting block of shares.
That's what makes their dynamic so interesting, Tom is naturally a bully and Greg is naturally a bully-magnet and even more of a hayseed than Tom (and the fact that Tom *is* a hayseed if why he's such a keen observer of that kind of thing - no way that Kendall or one of the other kids notices a comically large handbag or other signs of not belonging)
Kendall is a business-themed Barbie doll, but he was a likely enough successor in S1 that a lot of the board and upper level management signed on to him.
I think what makes each of the kids compelling is that they all have some shard of Logan's capability.
Ken knows all the superficial right words to say about structure and business plans and MBA language and could surely run a decent spreadsheet valuation model if he had to but his instinct for the actual substance of the business is just completely absent. He also can never stay sober enough for long enough to deploy the flashes of killer instinct. What I thought was instructive in S1 was how he does drugs with his buddy Stewie but how the latter but crucially not Ken is able to not use when important business is being conducted. Two very different relationships with substances.
Roman has the instinctive reactionary mean-ness to potentially run a really awful news-room but none of the executive skills.
Shiv actually understands the real world of media and politics, she usually has the fewest illusions about what really is and isn't possible or acceptable but could never bring herself to run the evil empire the way it has to be.
Part of the message is the corrosive effect of their wealth and position on their own self-worth, not because they are completely incapable human beings, that would just be a comedy, but precisely because if they weren't put in a place of such elevated expectations, they clearly do have the skills to have done something with their lives.
posted by atrazine at 8:48 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Inside Rupert Murdoch’s Succession Drama (Vanity Fair)
From the show's point of view, an important detail is the rumour that Lachlan Murdoch... told Rupert Murdoch... that James Murdoch had been leaking family details to the writers of Succession. All just tittle-tattle I'm sure! "Any resemblance... purely coincidental" etc.
posted by rongorongo at 10:54 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
From the show's point of view, an important detail is the rumour that Lachlan Murdoch... told Rupert Murdoch... that James Murdoch had been leaking family details to the writers of Succession. All just tittle-tattle I'm sure! "Any resemblance... purely coincidental" etc.
posted by rongorongo at 10:54 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also noting that Mudoch's lawyers included a contract in his divorce settlement with Jeri Hall that expressly prevented her from leaking details about their marriage to Succession writers. And apparently those details might have included her having to call in Mick Jagger's security consultant to disable to security cameras still relaying pictures of the home she had won in the settlement - or about her making an effigy of Murdoch, tying dental floss around its neck (he had run off with a dental hygienist ,who believed Tucker Carlson is a messenger from God) and then throwing it onto a barbecue.
posted by rongorongo at 12:11 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 12:11 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think every episode this season is a day and they are all in a row and the wedding was a rare Friday wedding, which is why the stock market was open. That means that episode 7 is "the election" but what election? I think it has to be the GOP primary because Connor is still in it and that wasn't any November in New York.
posted by shothotbot at 6:44 AM on April 14, 2023
posted by shothotbot at 6:44 AM on April 14, 2023
Thanks for the link for folks who want to watch that, but just a reminder that some folks on Fanfare avoid "on next week's episode..." stuff and it's considered good form to not discuss elements revealed in episode previews. I might be wrong on this and that would be fine but I think a "mid-season trailer" (and WTF to that, btw, never encountered that before; is HBO that worried that folks will stop watching now that Brian Cox is gone?) qualifies as an "On next week's thrilling episode!" kind of thing.
posted by mediareport at 9:17 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 9:17 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
That trailer is full of micro-spoilers FWIW. I enjoyed watching it, it's just a bunch of quick clips, but if you don't want to know who is in the final episodes or some of the story beats best avoid it. Worked great as a hype video for me though!
posted by Nelson at 9:28 AM on April 14, 2023
posted by Nelson at 9:28 AM on April 14, 2023
I think it has to be the GOP primary because Connor is still in it and that wasn't any November in New York.
If this is the 2020 election in a world without Covid, the NY primaries would have taken place on April 28. If it's the 2024 election, April 30.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:37 PM on April 14, 2023
If this is the 2020 election in a world without Covid, the NY primaries would have taken place on April 28. If it's the 2024 election, April 30.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:37 PM on April 14, 2023
a "mid-season trailer" (and WTF to that, btw, never encountered that before; is HBO that worried that folks will stop watching now that Brian Cox is gone?)
I believe it includes material they didn't want to put in the initial trailer as it might have spoiled Logan's death happening so early in the season.
posted by roolya_boolya at 2:39 PM on April 14, 2023
I believe it includes material they didn't want to put in the initial trailer as it might have spoiled Logan's death happening so early in the season.
posted by roolya_boolya at 2:39 PM on April 14, 2023
Since we've already got comments talking about things revealed in the mid-season trailer, I'd like to second mediareport in asking people to not reveal things from those previews.
posted by umber vowel at 2:49 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by umber vowel at 2:49 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, srsly, CAN WE NOT?!?!?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:39 PM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:39 PM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Was anything actually revealed here from the preview/mid-season trailer?
posted by Ahmad Khani at 6:43 PM on April 14, 2023
posted by Ahmad Khani at 6:43 PM on April 14, 2023
Mod note: A couple deleted. No spoilers, please, even minor things. Just stick to this episode, and what's been seen up to now.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:12 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:12 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I re-watched the first episode to get a better handle on timing. The first episode is said to be two days before the sale. In the same episode Connor says that the election is 10 days out. Shiv is talking to a transition team so I guess its the general and rich people dont have the same weather as everyone else? Shiv goes from LA to NYC the night of the first episode and then she seems to be upstate the next day which doesnt really make sense but its how I read the text
posted by shothotbot at 12:29 PM on April 15, 2023
posted by shothotbot at 12:29 PM on April 15, 2023
I like the actors, but this felt like a show a little too in love with its actors. I think the previous episode is when the shine full wore off the show for me, so maybe this one came one episode late. I couldn't take another round of daddy yo-yo action, but take it away and idk if there's enough else.
Somehow I found it really funny the way Willa said "Thank you!" after her mom told her she was like a princess. Like she finally got recognition for an accomplishment.
posted by fleacircus at 7:07 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Somehow I found it really funny the way Willa said "Thank you!" after her mom told her she was like a princess. Like she finally got recognition for an accomplishment.
posted by fleacircus at 7:07 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is Gerri safe though? When Logan told Roman to fire her, he was in the car with Kerry so she knows. Although the rest of the team is sidelining her now, she could still inconveniently be a player if Logan made some arrangement for her.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:36 PM on May 15, 2023
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:36 PM on May 15, 2023
Interesting note:
The ladyfriend and I have been watching the show off and on, but got spoiled on Logan's death about two weeks ago, as we were starting season 4. We were getting dressed, watching the news and in front of the tv, when someone on screen offhandly mentioned Logan's passing on the show. We both heard it, looked at each other, realized we couldn't deny it or pretend we hadn't heard it and in unison exclaimed "Ahhhh fuck!"
We laughed,, noting it wasn't a surprise, since Logan's poor health was telegraphed in the first episode. The details weren't revealed, so we just thought that it would occur in the last or penultimate episode.
So getting that act in the third episode was wonderfully surprising! Hats off to everyone doing fantastic acting and to the showrunner was making it so low key and off screen. For a few minutes we kept wondering if this was some sick test of Logan's, to see how the kids would react and that tension was great.
So great think you've been spoiled, but find out you're not, you know? It was all in the details of how it played out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 8 [3 favorites]
The ladyfriend and I have been watching the show off and on, but got spoiled on Logan's death about two weeks ago, as we were starting season 4. We were getting dressed, watching the news and in front of the tv, when someone on screen offhandly mentioned Logan's passing on the show. We both heard it, looked at each other, realized we couldn't deny it or pretend we hadn't heard it and in unison exclaimed "Ahhhh fuck!"
We laughed,, noting it wasn't a surprise, since Logan's poor health was telegraphed in the first episode. The details weren't revealed, so we just thought that it would occur in the last or penultimate episode.
So getting that act in the third episode was wonderfully surprising! Hats off to everyone doing fantastic acting and to the showrunner was making it so low key and off screen. For a few minutes we kept wondering if this was some sick test of Logan's, to see how the kids would react and that tension was great.
So great think you've been spoiled, but find out you're not, you know? It was all in the details of how it played out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 8 [3 favorites]
Favorite:
Shiv: "Fuck off"
Roman" "...You are"
Also:
Ronald Reagan's funeral was, according to wikipedia, a "seven-day state funeral." So, you know, just a few tweaks.
posted by mabelstreet at 6:38 PM on February 3
Shiv: "Fuck off"
Roman" "...You are"
Also:
Ronald Reagan's funeral was, according to wikipedia, a "seven-day state funeral." So, you know, just a few tweaks.
posted by mabelstreet at 6:38 PM on February 3
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posted by jimw at 7:56 PM on April 9, 2023 [6 favorites]