The Acolyte: Night
June 25, 2024 6:58 PM - Season 1, Episode 5 - Subscribe
In a dense jungle, the Jedi are put to the test when they confront a rising darkness.
Wow, I definitely did not expect all those characters to die.
And Darth Bortles it is!
posted by medusa at 7:19 PM on June 25 [5 favorites]
And Darth Bortles it is!
posted by medusa at 7:19 PM on June 25 [5 favorites]
Also: Chekhov's tattoo...
posted by medusa at 7:33 PM on June 25 [2 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:33 PM on June 25 [2 favorites]
Very surprising body count. And I found it more moving and surprising than I would have predicted. The death of the padawan in particular was a heartbreak and shocking considering how ably she was doing against a powerful “sith.” And was that the first usage of that term in this series? Great action overall. And lovely usage of that tracker creature. Did he even get a name? Looking forward to the next one very much.
posted by artlung at 7:58 PM on June 25 [2 favorites]
posted by artlung at 7:58 PM on June 25 [2 favorites]
Bazil
posted by td2x10e3 at 8:14 PM on June 25 [5 favorites]
posted by td2x10e3 at 8:14 PM on June 25 [5 favorites]
Why do I feel like Darth Good Place really wanted Osha all along?
posted by hototogisu at 9:24 PM on June 25 [1 favorite]
posted by hototogisu at 9:24 PM on June 25 [1 favorite]
Whoa. Amazing episode, was not expecting that much death. Moving into the inevitable twin-impersonation plot now though.
Den of Geek: The Acolyte Episode 5’s Big Deaths Just Changed the Game for Star Wars.
Inverse: The Biggest Star Wars Villains Are Suddenly Way More Complicated.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:42 AM on June 26 [3 favorites]
Den of Geek: The Acolyte Episode 5’s Big Deaths Just Changed the Game for Star Wars.
Inverse: The Biggest Star Wars Villains Are Suddenly Way More Complicated.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:42 AM on June 26 [3 favorites]
I enjoyed this episode. I was especially impressed by how a lot of the storytelling was done through combat. Osha’s big emotional moment was shooting Mae, and the biggest “mask off” moment was when Sol was a split second away from killing Qimir.
Speaking of, I was glad that they didn’t drag out the reveal any further. If they’d saved it to the final episode, it would’ve been painful. As noted by the Inverse article TheophileEscargot linked to, it’s interesting that he recasts “Sith” as a term that the Jedi use for their enemies. Though I thought his cry of “freedom” was a bit silly. For a hot second I thought he would die, leaving Mae as the main antagonist, but once he was carried off screen I knew he’d survive. Star Wars loves its helmet-wearing baddies more than anything, even more than killing Jedi.
Speaking of dead Jedi… poor Jecki and Yord. I had started to suspect that Yord was going to die, but I thought he’d die doing something heroic, rather than get his neck snapped in the middle of not much at all. I’m glad that at least Jecki got to show off some moves. Her dance with the dual lightsabers was the prettiest moment in an episode stuffed with them. After suffering through unnecessarily dark television shows, finally we have one which knows how to use darkness and light to dramatic effect.
Since Yord won’t get the heroic death, I’m increasingly convinced that Sol will reveal he did something terrible on Brendok, only to redeem himself in the final episode by dying in the process of turning the sister(s) from the dark side. Because if there’s anything Star Wars loves more than its helmeted villains, it’s Jedis sacrificing their lives to bring someone back into the light.
posted by Kattullus at 3:32 AM on June 26 [2 favorites]
Speaking of, I was glad that they didn’t drag out the reveal any further. If they’d saved it to the final episode, it would’ve been painful. As noted by the Inverse article TheophileEscargot linked to, it’s interesting that he recasts “Sith” as a term that the Jedi use for their enemies. Though I thought his cry of “freedom” was a bit silly. For a hot second I thought he would die, leaving Mae as the main antagonist, but once he was carried off screen I knew he’d survive. Star Wars loves its helmet-wearing baddies more than anything, even more than killing Jedi.
Speaking of dead Jedi… poor Jecki and Yord. I had started to suspect that Yord was going to die, but I thought he’d die doing something heroic, rather than get his neck snapped in the middle of not much at all. I’m glad that at least Jecki got to show off some moves. Her dance with the dual lightsabers was the prettiest moment in an episode stuffed with them. After suffering through unnecessarily dark television shows, finally we have one which knows how to use darkness and light to dramatic effect.
Since Yord won’t get the heroic death, I’m increasingly convinced that Sol will reveal he did something terrible on Brendok, only to redeem himself in the final episode by dying in the process of turning the sister(s) from the dark side. Because if there’s anything Star Wars loves more than its helmeted villains, it’s Jedis sacrificing their lives to bring someone back into the light.
posted by Kattullus at 3:32 AM on June 26 [2 favorites]
I liked this episode the best so far. That was some quality lightsaberin’.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:25 AM on June 26 [6 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:25 AM on June 26 [6 favorites]
I didn't like this episode much because it felt like an entire episode of exhausting fights set in the empty forest planet. Particularly regretting they killed the Wookie off early, I was really hoping for some coarse but effective Kashyyyk light saber form.
Kattullus' comment about "storytelling through combat" is right though, they did that well. The show has earned this episode and they'd done enough character establishing that I was moved by the deaths of Jecki and Yord. (Also mad: Yord was shaping up to be my Jedi boyfriend.) I think maybe it's just my preferences in shows. I'm much more interested in the exposition of something like Andor although I certainly can't complain about a Star Wars show having too many laser sword fights.
What also worked was the slow reveal of Qimir as.. whatever he is. Over several scenes. We'd all guessed it but they did a nice job teasing it out. I think it was clinched when he started showing his upper arms. His intensely sinewy, strong and zero fat upper arms. He may actually look like that, see this short training video from 2022. (Maybe I need a Sith boyfriend to replace Yord.) They did a weird thing later on where he was unmasked and we see a whole scene of him walking around with the camera framed below his head, so you can't see him again. I thought maybe they were going to swap him out for Mae or something? I kind of hope Qimir survives and becomes a central part of Star Wars canon, I like the character and the actor.
The tension between Mae and Osha was good. Particularly when Osha said "you set the fire!" and Mae was all "oh no they've brainwashed you". I genuinely don't know what's the truth and am hoping for more expository scenes in the next episodes to tell that story in an interesting way. I bet it won't be too complex, maybe more of an accident in something Osha did than a deliberate act on Mae or Sol's part. My guess is Sol's big failure was in preventing the deaths, not in causing them.
Poor Pip, reduced from a sidekick droid to a flashlight part.
It looks like the plan is for multiple seasons so they're going to have to leave a few characters alive for another season. Maybe they could cast Carrie-Anne Moss, wouldn't she be great on screen in a Star Wars show?
posted by Nelson at 6:26 AM on June 26 [5 favorites]
Kattullus' comment about "storytelling through combat" is right though, they did that well. The show has earned this episode and they'd done enough character establishing that I was moved by the deaths of Jecki and Yord. (Also mad: Yord was shaping up to be my Jedi boyfriend.) I think maybe it's just my preferences in shows. I'm much more interested in the exposition of something like Andor although I certainly can't complain about a Star Wars show having too many laser sword fights.
What also worked was the slow reveal of Qimir as.. whatever he is. Over several scenes. We'd all guessed it but they did a nice job teasing it out. I think it was clinched when he started showing his upper arms. His intensely sinewy, strong and zero fat upper arms. He may actually look like that, see this short training video from 2022. (Maybe I need a Sith boyfriend to replace Yord.) They did a weird thing later on where he was unmasked and we see a whole scene of him walking around with the camera framed below his head, so you can't see him again. I thought maybe they were going to swap him out for Mae or something? I kind of hope Qimir survives and becomes a central part of Star Wars canon, I like the character and the actor.
The tension between Mae and Osha was good. Particularly when Osha said "you set the fire!" and Mae was all "oh no they've brainwashed you". I genuinely don't know what's the truth and am hoping for more expository scenes in the next episodes to tell that story in an interesting way. I bet it won't be too complex, maybe more of an accident in something Osha did than a deliberate act on Mae or Sol's part. My guess is Sol's big failure was in preventing the deaths, not in causing them.
Poor Pip, reduced from a sidekick droid to a flashlight part.
It looks like the plan is for multiple seasons so they're going to have to leave a few characters alive for another season. Maybe they could cast Carrie-Anne Moss, wouldn't she be great on screen in a Star Wars show?
posted by Nelson at 6:26 AM on June 26 [5 favorites]
A'ight. I had one nice big write up about 100% done and then my browser closed and auto updated without warning. SO.
I really enjoyed this episode.
If I have the time later, maybe I'll try to resurrect those thoughts.
posted by Atreides at 6:38 AM on June 26
I really enjoyed this episode.
If I have the time later, maybe I'll try to resurrect those thoughts.
posted by Atreides at 6:38 AM on June 26
the plan is for multiple seasons
That may be the plan, but the growing popularity of the anti-woke vilification and subsequent review bombing may make that unlikely.
It's a shame, because I really wanted to see how this grayzoning of traditionally bipolar Star Wars morality panned out. Will it be a little to bothersiderist for comfort?
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:17 AM on June 26 [1 favorite]
That may be the plan, but the growing popularity of the anti-woke vilification and subsequent review bombing may make that unlikely.
It's a shame, because I really wanted to see how this grayzoning of traditionally bipolar Star Wars morality panned out. Will it be a little to bothersiderist for comfort?
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:17 AM on June 26 [1 favorite]
Take Two? Back with same attempt, but less caffeine and more worldly weariness.
As I said, I really enjoyed this episode even though I had admitted to my self that Jecki might be my favorite character and she needed to be protected at all costs....only to see her lightsaber stabbed multiple times ten minutes later. HARD.
What was also hard...(but true?) was Sol complaining, "She was a child!" And Qimer responding, "You brought her here." DANG. TKO.
Without being very spoilerish, for those enjoying Acolyte, but who have not indulged in the High Republic publishing project by Lucasfilm, there's a running joke that the creators love to kill off characters. I was reminded of this in this episode as Ihad presumed, as one nameless Jedi after another fell to Qimer's blade, that our named Jedi trio, Sol, Jecki, and Yorde, would naturally survive the encounter. NOPE. So hard NOPE. I even had a dream last night where my subconscious tried to say "No, no, they're still alive really!" That's the level of whiplash surprise I was dealing with.
I remain of the opinion that Qimer is not the true big bad, so much as an apprentice trying to find his own acolyte for the ostensible purpose of taking down his master in the grand tradition of Sith power dynamics. One reason I feel this way is that I see Qimer is as something of a counter image of Yorde, in terms of Yorde being an all in Jedi, a true believer with unshakeable conviction. The first time we met Qimer, he's off referencing the Sith Code to Mae (who blows him off, kind of an early tell on her own conviction to being a dark side user:
Kudos to the writers for making me nod thoughtfully when Mae turns to Osha and goes, "The Jedi brainwashed you!" Maybe....maybe?
I enjoyed this episode. I was especially impressed by how a lot of the storytelling was done through combat. Osha’s big emotional moment was shooting Mae, and the biggest “mask off” moment was when Sol was a split second away from killing Qimir.
Agreed!
We have three episodes left. One will somehow be another flashback, perhaps with Sol sharing the truth with Mae Not Osha about what really happened back on Brenock. One must wonder what is Mae's aim, to simply get close enough to kill Sol? Or get the evidence from him to convince Osha that they're Jedi Scum? Anyways, gotta keep them bangs in place!
Also: Chekhov's tattoo...
Totally. Yet, only because the power of bangs to conceal the tattoo/marking that already exists on the other twin?
The irony of the fight between the Jedi and Qimer being the best trained at disabling his opponents' weapons.
posted by Atreides at 11:51 AM on June 26 [5 favorites]
As I said, I really enjoyed this episode even though I had admitted to my self that Jecki might be my favorite character and she needed to be protected at all costs....only to see her lightsaber stabbed multiple times ten minutes later. HARD.
What was also hard...(but true?) was Sol complaining, "She was a child!" And Qimer responding, "You brought her here." DANG. TKO.
Without being very spoilerish, for those enjoying Acolyte, but who have not indulged in the High Republic publishing project by Lucasfilm, there's a running joke that the creators love to kill off characters. I was reminded of this in this episode as Ihad presumed, as one nameless Jedi after another fell to Qimer's blade, that our named Jedi trio, Sol, Jecki, and Yorde, would naturally survive the encounter. NOPE. So hard NOPE. I even had a dream last night where my subconscious tried to say "No, no, they're still alive really!" That's the level of whiplash surprise I was dealing with.
I remain of the opinion that Qimer is not the true big bad, so much as an apprentice trying to find his own acolyte for the ostensible purpose of taking down his master in the grand tradition of Sith power dynamics. One reason I feel this way is that I see Qimer is as something of a counter image of Yorde, in terms of Yorde being an all in Jedi, a true believer with unshakeable conviction. The first time we met Qimer, he's off referencing the Sith Code to Mae (who blows him off, kind of an early tell on her own conviction to being a dark side user:
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.In this episode, Qimer then connects using the Force to being free. And welp, we also will likely not see Master Sol survive the season, especially before telling Venestra (or anyone in the Order) that he'd run into someone who referred to themselves as the Sith. (Alternatively, its reported but no one believes him.) When Qimer shared that revealing his identity meant he would have to kill everyone, he meant it. Only one Jedi survives out of about 10?
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.
Kudos to the writers for making me nod thoughtfully when Mae turns to Osha and goes, "The Jedi brainwashed you!" Maybe....maybe?
I enjoyed this episode. I was especially impressed by how a lot of the storytelling was done through combat. Osha’s big emotional moment was shooting Mae, and the biggest “mask off” moment was when Sol was a split second away from killing Qimir.
Agreed!
We have three episodes left. One will somehow be another flashback, perhaps with Sol sharing the truth with Mae Not Osha about what really happened back on Brenock. One must wonder what is Mae's aim, to simply get close enough to kill Sol? Or get the evidence from him to convince Osha that they're Jedi Scum? Anyways, gotta keep them bangs in place!
Also: Chekhov's tattoo...
Totally. Yet, only because the power of bangs to conceal the tattoo/marking that already exists on the other twin?
The irony of the fight between the Jedi and Qimer being the best trained at disabling his opponents' weapons.
posted by Atreides at 11:51 AM on June 26 [5 favorites]
Speaking of the power of bangs, what was up with Mae cutting hers off with the light saber?
posted by Nelson at 12:04 PM on June 26
posted by Nelson at 12:04 PM on June 26
Too look more like her sister.
posted by Kattullus at 12:23 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 12:23 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
Poor Pip, reduced from a sidekick droid to a flashlight part.
Was that what you saw? Because what I saw was Pip making a Kenobi-level sacrifice to take the so-called-Sith off the board, something an entire platoon of Jedi had failed to do.
(I want a Pip soooooooo badly)
posted by Molesome at 12:46 PM on June 26 [7 favorites]
Was that what you saw? Because what I saw was Pip making a Kenobi-level sacrifice to take the so-called-Sith off the board, something an entire platoon of Jedi had failed to do.
(I want a Pip soooooooo badly)
posted by Molesome at 12:46 PM on June 26 [7 favorites]
Speaking of the power of bangs, what was up with Mae cutting hers off with the light saber?
There are things that the Jedi won't teach you, that they even consider unnatural, such as trimming one's hair with a lightsaber.
posted by Atreides at 1:02 PM on June 26 [9 favorites]
There are things that the Jedi won't teach you, that they even consider unnatural, such as trimming one's hair with a lightsaber.
posted by Atreides at 1:02 PM on June 26 [9 favorites]
Imagine not being able to smell that someone just gave themselves a haircut with the galaxy’s most dangerous Flowbee alternative.
posted by hototogisu at 2:03 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 2:03 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
There are things that the Jedi won't teach you, that they even consider unnatural, such as trimming one's hair with a lightsaber.
I regret I must correct myself after seeing a reminder that the Jedi will ceremoniously cut off the padawan braid with a lightsaber. Excuse me while I go perform penace for this oversight.
posted by Atreides at 2:06 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
I regret I must correct myself after seeing a reminder that the Jedi will ceremoniously cut off the padawan braid with a lightsaber. Excuse me while I go perform penace for this oversight.
posted by Atreides at 2:06 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
The irony of the fight between the Jedi and Qimer being the best trained at disabling his opponents' weapons.
Yeah, what was with all the lightsaber-cutting-out business? Since when are they as reliable as a dollar-store incandescent flashlight?
posted by coriolisdave at 2:12 PM on June 26
Yeah, what was with all the lightsaber-cutting-out business? Since when are they as reliable as a dollar-store incandescent flashlight?
posted by coriolisdave at 2:12 PM on June 26
I did think Osha’s line “Pip I love you” or whatever it was had more emotion in it than the entirety of the prequel trilogy. So that was nice.
posted by hototogisu at 2:34 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 2:34 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
pour one out for Jecki... i really wish they kept her alive. apparently the kid was the most competent duelist they had.
posted by kokaku at 4:34 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 4:34 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
He had a magic helmet.
ngl I was hoping for a bugs bunny video
posted by coriolisdave at 5:20 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
ngl I was hoping for a bugs bunny video
posted by coriolisdave at 5:20 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
I clocked most of that ridiculously large crew of Jedi as redshirts, but I was surprised that Hot Jedi and the Padawan got killed (and very definitively too, not in a "will show up next episode in a healing tank" kind of way). This was my favorite episode yet, although I confess I'm not really looking forward to the twins-switcheroo plot which is coming.
posted by whir at 6:48 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
posted by whir at 6:48 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
One must wonder what is Mae's aim, to simply get close enough to kill Sol?
Probably more specifically to try and kill Sol while he is unarmed which was such a big deal for her to prove herself to her master, and might be the thing that would get her back in his good graces.
posted by Pryde at 7:42 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
Probably more specifically to try and kill Sol while he is unarmed which was such a big deal for her to prove herself to her master, and might be the thing that would get her back in his good graces.
posted by Pryde at 7:42 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
Probably more specifically to try and kill Sol while he is unarmed
I think she has to do it while she is unarmed.
(I'm not sure what constitutes "unarmed" in this scheme. Apparently convincing a Jedi to drink poison does not count.)
posted by synecdoche at 7:44 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
I think she has to do it while she is unarmed.
(I'm not sure what constitutes "unarmed" in this scheme. Apparently convincing a Jedi to drink poison does not count.)
posted by synecdoche at 7:44 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this has been commented on before, but I noticed there are almost no blasters in this series. Osha has a stun gun (which Mae uses in this episode), and when we first saw him Kelnacca force-snatched what looked like a blaster, and then snapped it in two. Other than that, I think there have been no blasters ("No blasters! No blasters!") in The Acolyte.
I'm not sure why that might be, but I think it's cool to see a Star Wars story that isn't as gun/blaster-oriented. A more civilized age, as it were.
posted by abraxasaxarba at 1:06 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure why that might be, but I think it's cool to see a Star Wars story that isn't as gun/blaster-oriented. A more civilized age, as it were.
posted by abraxasaxarba at 1:06 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
I like that too. As far as this particular series goes, I can only believe they forgot.
Never have I ever so desperately waited for season 2 of Andor.
posted by hototogisu at 1:23 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Never have I ever so desperately waited for season 2 of Andor.
posted by hototogisu at 1:23 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I'm just throwing this out there, but has any character in the current narrative timeframe other than Osha or Mae seen Osha and Mae in the same place at the same time?
Not including the time shown when they were children, each instance of adult Osha and Mae interacting never includes a third party. I'm not suggesting a Tyler Durden/Narrator style reveal since physical distance was used as an alibi for Indara's murder, but isn't it weird and getting a little more obvious each episode?
posted by Molesome at 2:46 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Not including the time shown when they were children, each instance of adult Osha and Mae interacting never includes a third party. I'm not suggesting a Tyler Durden/Narrator style reveal since physical distance was used as an alibi for Indara's murder, but isn't it weird and getting a little more obvious each episode?
posted by Molesome at 2:46 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
The adult sisters in the same place at the same time witnessed by a 3rd party that's not us viewers? I don't think so.
At the remote temple with the poison suicide, there's an alibi for the "innocent" sister because at the time of the death she was being surveilled.
A Tyler Durden solution definitely enters periodically into my mind as a "solution" to whatever their sibling dynamic is (Force Dyad? Swapping personalities? Remote telepathy? Bilocation? Mind control? Something else?) But I think we are dealing with two physical presences even in the modern age. It's too hard to reconcile the "aw shucks I'm just a regular gal doing non-union contracting with a cute droid and staying away from anything weird" with "I am training in earnest to become a mass murderer and it sure is taking years" as the same persona.
But would I rule it out? Well, no. Jedi do weird shit. I mean, first movie, Obi-Wan gets lasered and just sort of evaporates. That ain't regular.
posted by artlung at 6:56 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
At the remote temple with the poison suicide, there's an alibi for the "innocent" sister because at the time of the death she was being surveilled.
A Tyler Durden solution definitely enters periodically into my mind as a "solution" to whatever their sibling dynamic is (Force Dyad? Swapping personalities? Remote telepathy? Bilocation? Mind control? Something else?) But I think we are dealing with two physical presences even in the modern age. It's too hard to reconcile the "aw shucks I'm just a regular gal doing non-union contracting with a cute droid and staying away from anything weird" with "I am training in earnest to become a mass murderer and it sure is taking years" as the same persona.
But would I rule it out? Well, no. Jedi do weird shit. I mean, first movie, Obi-Wan gets lasered and just sort of evaporates. That ain't regular.
posted by artlung at 6:56 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
We keep getting told how Mae couldn't possibly have survived... But I'm gonna be Big Mad if they do something as silly as "psyche, there's really only one person" given all the emphasis on the alibi in the first episodes. Unless they have a good explanation for that too.
Also if they really do go with them being one person that's going to make the whole deadly laser sword haircut thing really confusing.
Maybe "Always one, but born as two" has a more complicated meaning than just twin sisters being close.
posted by Nelson at 6:57 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
Also if they really do go with them being one person that's going to make the whole deadly laser sword haircut thing really confusing.
Maybe "Always one, but born as two" has a more complicated meaning than just twin sisters being close.
posted by Nelson at 6:57 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
But would I rule it out? Well, no. Jedi do weird shit.
Anytime I encounter anyone trying to argue something in Star Wars isn't "realistic" (noises in space, starfighters in space moving like fighter planes, running out of fuel causing you to stop dead in space) I tend to just do jazz hands and sing "Spaaaaaace Wizzzaaaaaards" or "That's Star Wars, Baby!"
I fully expect Master Sol as stand-in for an unreliable director saying to Osha and/or Mae as stand-in for the audience that this whole story relies upon "a certain point of view".
posted by Molesome at 8:25 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Anytime I encounter anyone trying to argue something in Star Wars isn't "realistic" (noises in space, starfighters in space moving like fighter planes, running out of fuel causing you to stop dead in space) I tend to just do jazz hands and sing "Spaaaaaace Wizzzaaaaaards" or "That's Star Wars, Baby!"
I fully expect Master Sol as stand-in for an unreliable director saying to Osha and/or Mae as stand-in for the audience that this whole story relies upon "a certain point of view".
posted by Molesome at 8:25 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I found myself saying out loud, “He’s not unarmed… he’s not unarmed.” Qimir clearly does not need to be weilding a lightsaber to be dangerous, and it’s not like he was restrained or anything at that moment. At least keep threatening him with the lightsaber while you figure out how to take next steps steps with this guy. Instead, it was just, “Welp, he’s right, we can’t defeat him if he isn’t actively trying to kill us.”
posted by SafetyPirate at 10:34 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by SafetyPirate at 10:34 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
Uhm the Tyler burden possibility seems like an impossibility because one sister has a Tattoo on her FACE !?
While the other definitely does not.
So they cannot be the same physical person.
posted by Faintdreams at 10:35 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
While the other definitely does not.
So they cannot be the same physical person.
posted by Faintdreams at 10:35 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
If they try to pull some bullshit with them being literally the same person, Imma throw my TV out the window.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:15 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:15 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I think we're pretty safe on that there are two distinct twins, alive and well (ish?), at the end of Episode 5. I also don't think it is wild to consider this possibility, what with Rise of Skywalker literally transporting physical objects through the Force via the Force Dyad mystical power whammy bammy stuff. But, here, I think we can burn it on a pyre (versus throwing it over a cliff because falls do nothing in this....wait, Mae fell in the flashback. Heh.)
Sol's position on Mae's survival kinda depended on who he was talking to. I wonder if he didn't have a chance to save her and Osha, but only took Osha for whatever "justifiable" reason.
That's a great catch on the lack of blasters. We're almost the other side of the coin from Andor in terms of no lightsabers.
I found myself saying out loud, “He’s not unarmed… he’s not unarmed.” Qimir clearly does not need to be weilding a lightsaber to be dangerous, and it’s not like he was restrained or anything at that moment. At least keep threatening him with the lightsaber while you figure out how to take next steps steps with this guy. Instead, it was just, “Welp, he’s right, we can’t defeat him if he isn’t actively trying to kill us.”
I mean, he had two canons, right there. Right arm. Left arm. :D
I have this odd feeling that what happens next will be a juxtaposition between Sol telling us the sorta truth of what happened to Mae and Qimer telling Osha the sorta truth to Osha (along with hopefully, some of his own background - we're curious!). Will that happen in one episode or across two? I don't know. I'd love both for the parallels, but we'll see!
posted by Atreides at 11:23 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
Sol's position on Mae's survival kinda depended on who he was talking to. I wonder if he didn't have a chance to save her and Osha, but only took Osha for whatever "justifiable" reason.
That's a great catch on the lack of blasters. We're almost the other side of the coin from Andor in terms of no lightsabers.
I found myself saying out loud, “He’s not unarmed… he’s not unarmed.” Qimir clearly does not need to be weilding a lightsaber to be dangerous, and it’s not like he was restrained or anything at that moment. At least keep threatening him with the lightsaber while you figure out how to take next steps steps with this guy. Instead, it was just, “Welp, he’s right, we can’t defeat him if he isn’t actively trying to kill us.”
I mean, he had two canons, right there. Right arm. Left arm. :D
I have this odd feeling that what happens next will be a juxtaposition between Sol telling us the sorta truth of what happened to Mae and Qimer telling Osha the sorta truth to Osha (along with hopefully, some of his own background - we're curious!). Will that happen in one episode or across two? I don't know. I'd love both for the parallels, but we'll see!
posted by Atreides at 11:23 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
I tend to just do jazz hands and sing "Spaaaaaace Wizzzaaaaaards" or "That's Star Wars, Baby!"
I was 13 in 1983 when I saw Return of the Jedi and when the Emperor projects lightning from his hands for a split second I was like "you can't do that!" and then I saw the faint outlines of Vader's skull through his helmet and that made my pedantry go away. It looked bitchin'.
And yes, as Atreidies implies, I think we're gonna get some interesting "from a certain point of view" talk - and maybe even conflicting subjective footage - about what happened when Child Protective Jedi Services came to town.
Mistakes were made.
posted by artlung at 11:47 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
I was 13 in 1983 when I saw Return of the Jedi and when the Emperor projects lightning from his hands for a split second I was like "you can't do that!" and then I saw the faint outlines of Vader's skull through his helmet and that made my pedantry go away. It looked bitchin'.
And yes, as Atreidies implies, I think we're gonna get some interesting "from a certain point of view" talk - and maybe even conflicting subjective footage - about what happened when Child Protective Jedi Services came to town.
Mistakes were made.
posted by artlung at 11:47 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
So, the flashback that showed Mae doing the trials and wanting to leave where she grew up.. who was that perspective from ?
Because it feels like the writers want us to (now) believe that what we saw in that flashback was from an unreliable narrator but we saw things from the perspective of each of the Sisters and their Mother.. ?
posted by Faintdreams at 1:54 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
Because it feels like the writers want us to (now) believe that what we saw in that flashback was from an unreliable narrator but we saw things from the perspective of each of the Sisters and their Mother.. ?
posted by Faintdreams at 1:54 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
I had originally thought it was Osha's flashback, but as you noted, there are things that occurred that Osha was simply not around to have witnessed. In fact, there is nothing to indicate who's perspective it is other than the fact that it just refuses to take sides on who did what, other than Mae going all homicidal and fire starter. You might argue it was sympathetic to Osha, but not Osha's point of view. In a way, the show itself is the unreliable narrator here, at least, from a certain point of view.
posted by Atreides at 2:06 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 2:06 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
In a way, the show itself is the unreliable narrator
Ooooh. I watched each Andor twice the the first week it aired. That show was not playing with POV and hidden truths but it stood up to nuance and detailed inspection. I've not done that with The Acolyte series (time limitations partly) but this has got me thinking about whether a rewatch would reveal subjective or conflicting POV that I missed. (And yes, it's also possible the storytelling conflicts are due not to creator cleverness but to creator inconsistency). Folks have mentioned Rashomon in the same breath of this and maybe I'll try for a rewatch before the next one.
posted by artlung at 2:15 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Ooooh. I watched each Andor twice the the first week it aired. That show was not playing with POV and hidden truths but it stood up to nuance and detailed inspection. I've not done that with The Acolyte series (time limitations partly) but this has got me thinking about whether a rewatch would reveal subjective or conflicting POV that I missed. (And yes, it's also possible the storytelling conflicts are due not to creator cleverness but to creator inconsistency). Folks have mentioned Rashomon in the same breath of this and maybe I'll try for a rewatch before the next one.
posted by artlung at 2:15 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Did they just leave their fallen comrades in the forest? What sort of Pirate Code do the Jedi follow?
posted by autopilot at 2:38 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 2:38 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
(I know. I know. It’s more of a guideline)
posted by autopilot at 3:12 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 3:12 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Also.. I know the 'Force' does whatever the story needs it to do surely someone is gonna figure out v fast that the Twins have been swapped.?
posted by Faintdreams at 3:28 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Faintdreams at 3:28 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I think she has to do it while she is unarmed.
That's what I thought the first couple of episodes, but then it was made clear that no, it's the Jedi that has to be unarmed. Which was why she tried to snatch away their light sabers at various times, like from Sol or Carrie-Anne Moss's character. (Though I feel like a force-wielding Jedi trained in unarmed combat isn't exactly ever helpless....)
I think the rationale is that a Jedi would (supposedly, anyway) NEVER kill an unarmed opponent in a fight, so a Sith MUST as a rite of passage to prove themself. It's not about proving skill, but demonstrating a lack of mercy and a rejection of the code of rules the Jedi follow.
posted by Pryde at 3:30 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
That's what I thought the first couple of episodes, but then it was made clear that no, it's the Jedi that has to be unarmed. Which was why she tried to snatch away their light sabers at various times, like from Sol or Carrie-Anne Moss's character. (Though I feel like a force-wielding Jedi trained in unarmed combat isn't exactly ever helpless....)
I think the rationale is that a Jedi would (supposedly, anyway) NEVER kill an unarmed opponent in a fight, so a Sith MUST as a rite of passage to prove themself. It's not about proving skill, but demonstrating a lack of mercy and a rejection of the code of rules the Jedi follow.
posted by Pryde at 3:30 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Also.. I know the 'Force' does whatever the story needs it to do surely someone is gonna figure out v fast that the Twins have been swapped.?
I assumed either Bazil was going to sniff it out (literally) and/or Mae's lack of concern about Pip (which Bazil has the head(?) of, and can maybe be fixed?) will be the give away.
posted by Pryde at 3:32 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I assumed either Bazil was going to sniff it out (literally) and/or Mae's lack of concern about Pip (which Bazil has the head(?) of, and can maybe be fixed?) will be the give away.
posted by Pryde at 3:32 PM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Sol stopping from killing Qimir works because he was acting in anger, and that's the Dark Side. But when Qimir had a saber to Mae's head, that wasn't a good time to disarm himself: you are allowed to attack people who are threatening other people!
I wish the writing in this was better: just the dialogue seems clunky.
Still pretty impressed by the ballsy deaths of Jecki and Yord. Poor Yord!
posted by suelac at 8:21 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I wish the writing in this was better: just the dialogue seems clunky.
Still pretty impressed by the ballsy deaths of Jecki and Yord. Poor Yord!
posted by suelac at 8:21 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
wait, Mae fell in the flashback. Heh.
somehow, Mae returned.
But, this episode--Hell, yeah, episode. very well done, show. they brought the beasts back, brave Pip got to fight, Prairie Dog guy is going to play detective, there is so. much. plot.
posted by eustatic at 2:21 AM on June 28 [2 favorites]
somehow, Mae returned.
But, this episode--Hell, yeah, episode. very well done, show. they brought the beasts back, brave Pip got to fight, Prairie Dog guy is going to play detective, there is so. much. plot.
posted by eustatic at 2:21 AM on June 28 [2 favorites]
Folks have mentioned Rashomon in the same breath of this and maybe I'll try for a rewatch before the next one.
We are definitely going to get more perspectives on the past. Now if the lack of reliability is in the present, I don't think so. In the present, we have the characters, themselves, to watch for clues, with Master Sol's back and forth on Mae's fate being a really good example. I think another one is Qimer's conversation with Mae about the Master. I don't think he was 100% talking about himself in the third person, but it was also interesting in how he kind of back stepped on having a deal versus owing something to the Master, where in Mae had a deal. Likely, of course, with Qimer, the middle Sith management at the moment. I expect this is something of a nod to the fact that there is another Sith out there, whom Qimer serves. It's entirely possible that his Master wanted Qimer to recruit Mae/Osha, and Qimer saw it as an opportunity to recruit one/both to go against the Master.
I have a horrible feeling that the Master is going to cut down Qimer and offer Mae/Osha the opportunity to be his apprentice at the end of the show.
Also.. I know the 'Force' does whatever the story needs it to do surely someone is gonna figure out v fast that the Twins have been swapped.?
The Clone Wars tv show revealed early on that at least Yoda could differentiate between the Clones when sensing them through the Force. One would think twins would be easier to differentiate, since in this case, their different experiences are even greater and not molded by a creation plan to create battle ready soldiers. But, I do think a Jedi has to actively sense to a certain degree and Sol is probably, to understate, in a "bad place." I agree with team Bazil, our little Otter Type Pokemon is going to either reveal the masquerade or well, be killed and thrown in a closet.
Did they just leave their fallen comrades in the forest? What sort of Pirate Code do the Jedi follow?
I suppose when you're running for your life from the Sith Lord who just waylaid all your best people, you don't take time to grab their bodies. More seriously, there may be some sense of bodies being just "crude flesh" as Yoda would say, so the luminous beings that are the fallen Jedi have already become one with the Force. So why risk taking the time to grab the bodies if it isn't safe.
posted by Atreides at 11:08 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
We are definitely going to get more perspectives on the past. Now if the lack of reliability is in the present, I don't think so. In the present, we have the characters, themselves, to watch for clues, with Master Sol's back and forth on Mae's fate being a really good example. I think another one is Qimer's conversation with Mae about the Master. I don't think he was 100% talking about himself in the third person, but it was also interesting in how he kind of back stepped on having a deal versus owing something to the Master, where in Mae had a deal. Likely, of course, with Qimer, the middle Sith management at the moment. I expect this is something of a nod to the fact that there is another Sith out there, whom Qimer serves. It's entirely possible that his Master wanted Qimer to recruit Mae/Osha, and Qimer saw it as an opportunity to recruit one/both to go against the Master.
I have a horrible feeling that the Master is going to cut down Qimer and offer Mae/Osha the opportunity to be his apprentice at the end of the show.
Also.. I know the 'Force' does whatever the story needs it to do surely someone is gonna figure out v fast that the Twins have been swapped.?
The Clone Wars tv show revealed early on that at least Yoda could differentiate between the Clones when sensing them through the Force. One would think twins would be easier to differentiate, since in this case, their different experiences are even greater and not molded by a creation plan to create battle ready soldiers. But, I do think a Jedi has to actively sense to a certain degree and Sol is probably, to understate, in a "bad place." I agree with team Bazil, our little Otter Type Pokemon is going to either reveal the masquerade or well, be killed and thrown in a closet.
Did they just leave their fallen comrades in the forest? What sort of Pirate Code do the Jedi follow?
I suppose when you're running for your life from the Sith Lord who just waylaid all your best people, you don't take time to grab their bodies. More seriously, there may be some sense of bodies being just "crude flesh" as Yoda would say, so the luminous beings that are the fallen Jedi have already become one with the Force. So why risk taking the time to grab the bodies if it isn't safe.
posted by Atreides at 11:08 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
So why risk taking the time to grab the bodies if it isn't safe.
Still, I would have liked a single line about how they would have to come back and retrieve the dead. As it was, none of the Jedi ever even saw the body of Kelnacca.
posted by suelac at 2:27 PM on June 28 [3 favorites]
Still, I would have liked a single line about how they would have to come back and retrieve the dead. As it was, none of the Jedi ever even saw the body of Kelnacca.
posted by suelac at 2:27 PM on June 28 [3 favorites]
Which dialogue is clunky? "Let s get to the ship" ? "You followed a false master" ?
posted by eustatic at 6:01 PM on June 28
posted by eustatic at 6:01 PM on June 28
The Clone Wars tv show revealed early on that at least Yoda could differentiate between the Clones when sensing them through the Force
Ep 3 revealed Yoda couldn't sense a Sith Lord's arse from his elbow.
posted by biffa at 1:01 PM on June 29 [2 favorites]
Ep 3 revealed Yoda couldn't sense a Sith Lord's arse from his elbow.
posted by biffa at 1:01 PM on June 29 [2 favorites]
That's six seasons and two and a half films, tbh.
posted by Atreides at 6:24 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 6:24 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
So why risk taking the time to grab the bodies if it isn't safe.
And yeah yeah ok, the bodies are just meat puppets, but what, they're just going to leave their laser swords laying around where any ol' Skywalker-shaped idiot could pick one up? Shyeah, right.
posted by Kyol at 12:29 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
And yeah yeah ok, the bodies are just meat puppets, but what, they're just going to leave their laser swords laying around where any ol' Skywalker-shaped idiot could pick one up? Shyeah, right.
posted by Kyol at 12:29 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
(Although it did make me wonder about duel-wielding Jedi - do they have to go and overcome _two_ personality flaws in the mysterious temple, or is that just Master Yoda's favorite way of hazing padawans and actually Huyang has thousands of khyber crystals in storage, you just had to ask? I mean, I assume dual-and-greater wielding sith and uh "other" saber users stole them from their defeated enemies...)
posted by Kyol at 12:43 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 12:43 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
In a couple of days the Jedi will swing by and give the corpses and the surrounding countryside a proper Jedi funeral from low-planet orbit.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:44 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:44 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
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posted by Monday, stony Monday at 7:01 PM on June 25 [9 favorites]