Downton Abbey: Season 5, Episode 8
February 22, 2015 10:29 PM - Season 5, Episode 8 - Subscribe

It's Rose's wedding, and several crimes must be committed and investigated. No, really.

I missed the first ten minutes due to the Oscars, hope I didn't miss anything important! I think I missed that everyone skipped up to the tiny London house this week and hired a temporary footman.

Number of weddings/wedding-related activities in this episode: 2-- Rose and Atticus have to get married in a registry office and have a blessing later. Once again, nothing much is shown beyond a walk up the aisle.

Number of engagements in this episode: 1-- Tony and Mabel are back on again.
Number of engagements on hold: 1--Isobel seems to be in limbo this week.
Number of declarations of love: 1--this week it's Prince Kuragin's turn to declare his eternal love for Violet, possible wife still alive or not. And despite his saying he won't wait around for ages and ages (like Mary and Isobel, AHEM), I guess he's still waiting because Violet won't say anything as long as the wife might be alive. Which is sensible of her.

Number of new staff members: 1-Andy the temporary footman/personal patsy to Miss Denker.

Number of crimes/other dubious activities going on in this episode: 3
(a) Atticus gets framed so as to look like he was cheating on Rose at the stag party. Everyone suspects at first it was either one of his friends as a prank, or his dad's attempt to break them up. The audience will know right away, as does Shrimpie, that it's Sour Susan. Presumably Rose figures it out eventually as well.
(b) Miss Denker has some sort of scheme going on at a club called "The Velvet Violin" where she drags in clueless noobs and gets them to pay for her drinks and gamble for her. (And comes home whoopingly drunk to boot.) Thomas smells a rat and accompanies Denker to the bar and tattles on her scheme. Go Thomas.
(c) The good news is Bates is off the hook for murder this week because Green was spotted talking to someone shorter. Anna gets dragged into a police lineup--and is later identified as a suspect and arrested for the crime. OH DAMN.

Number of divorces publicly announced: 1--Susan chooses THE REGISTRY OFFICE right before the wedding as the proper time to tell the Sinderbys that *gasp* they're divorcing! Don't you hate us now? Won't you end the wedding?

Number of AWESOME MOMS in this episode: 1, because Lady Sinderby is all "Thank you for telling us, let's get on with the wedding" and refuses any and all derails. You rock, Lady Sinderby. Though I do give Cora a bonus point for being able to throw "My father was Jewish" at some random lady giving them sour face for having to deal with Jews. Hah.

Number of times Mrs. Patmore cries in the episode: 2.
Number of memorials to the war dead put up in town: 2-- the giant memorial AND one that Robert puts up on his own for Archie for Mrs. Patmore. D'awwwww.
Number of people threatening to leave Downton: 2--Daisy and Tom, the latter says he'll hang on until Christmas. Mary and Edith are sad.
Number of baits and switches Daisy pulls on me: 2-- she decides she wants to move to London and quits, and then takes it back after (a) seeing Mrs. P cry, and (b) Mrs. P blabs to Mr. Mason about it. DAMN YOU, DAISY, JUST GO MOVE THE HELL ON WITH YOUR LIFE ALREADY.

Number of grandchildren Robert is now aware of having: 3, because he figures out who Marigold looks like all on his own. He takes it well. Cora tells him not to tell and Robert is pleased to actually be IN on a secret for a damn change.

Quotes of the episode:
"Am I just expected to be a good loser?"
"It's too late for that, my dear." --Susan and Violet.

"I know a lot of things. And one of them is not to mess with Lady Mary Crawley." --Tony

"And I am not miss, I am Lady Mary Crawley."
"And I don't care if you're queen of the upper Nile." --Mary and the cop
posted by jenfullmoon (39 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Good writing for the Dowager Countess this episode - Love can conquer quite a lot. Love is a far more powerful than dislike. Why should you let them cheat you of your future? Far too late [for you to be a good loser]. I keep being afraid they are going to kill her off. She's such a great character.

Thank goodness for Tom being so levelheaded telling Rose to call and arrange to see Atticus to discuss the photos. I'm not sure Edith or Mary would have done the same. Edith would have dissolved into a puddle of tears à la the Wicked Witch of the West and Mary would have arranged to have him executed or, at minimum, conscripted. And least Rose and Atticus have one good set of parents between them to balance out Sour Susan and Lord Stick-Up-His-Backside.

Mary is so freaking self-centered. Tom don't leave me with Edith. People grow up and move away. Woe is me. Ugh.

It's nice to see Robert and Cora getting along again. Cora: "You'll remember my father was Jewish." Robert: *snicker*. Nice aristocratic, ultra-polite burn, Cora.

Re: the flag falling to the ground at the memorial unveiling. Is that a war memorial thing or is keeping a flag off the ground not a thing in the UK like it is in the US?
posted by Beti at 11:02 PM on February 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ugh! Will the Bates saga never end? Note to writers: No one cares. It's appalling.

I rather like the very real pushme/pullyou of Jewish assimilation. On one hand, the Sinderbys have done everything possible to fit into to English society, including using very British names, on the other, Lord S is annoyed that his son is marrying a shiksa. Well....he is an Englishman, he iiiiissssssiiiiiiissss an Englishman.

Enjoyed watching Thomas take down Miss Denker. Why on EARTH won't the DC get rid of her? She's terrible! I'm with Spratt on this one.

Two things I insist on being resolved in the Christmas episode:

1. Anna Bates is exonerated and she and Mr. Bates move to London so I don't have to see them again.

2. That there is an Isis II puppy under the tree for Robert.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:27 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Number of grandchildren Robert is now aware of having: 3, because he figures out who Marigold looks like all on his own. He takes it well.

This is how I know that Fellowes really does hate Edith: Robert can't even look at Marigold and see Edith in her; he sees Gregson. Robert met Gregson a handful of times nearly two years ago!
posted by gladly at 6:49 AM on February 23, 2015 [8 favorites]


It is really good to see Thomas using his powers for good, rather than evil.

Poor Daisy. How dare she have hopes, dreams and ambition?
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:58 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Never doubt me.

Overall, I liked this episode a lot. Some nice noble on noble violence with all the cut and thrust about the wedding. Especially impressed by Lady Sinderby shutting down her husband with finality. "Someday, my dear, that will be called 'the nuclear option.' I've no idea why. It just came to me." And whoever they got to do that bit opposite Cora's "Perhaps you don't remember that my father is Jewish" may never be a movie star, but she'll always have a solid career as "embarrassed woman #2.." That was just a masterful bit of total collapse. And SO English...

Violet's "It's too late for that, my dear" was also fantastic. Jesus what a thankless role is Susan. There's just no redeeming quality in her whatsoever. Even Thomas's arc is bending back toward likeability but absolutely nothing about Susan isn't despicable. She's not even competently evil.

Though I love that 1920s England apparently had companies (one could look them up in the yellow pages, perhaps) whose line of work was staging little tableaux scandals to head off unwanted relationships. (Apparently this is actually still a real thing in Japan, so I'm going to give Fellowes that one.)

With Thomas, it's like every season he has to switch from good guy to bad guy or back, like a pro wrestler. But I do like light side Thomas more than dark side Thomas, who hasn't been any fun since O'Brien left. Perhaps this new temporary footman will get hired on and turn out to be gay. That would be nice. They can age into the gay couple from Four Weddings and a Funeral.

And at last, the ongoing criminal investigation. Yep. Called it. I'm also confident, based on Bates's final line to Mary, in once again putting forward my earlier prediction that Bates is going to (at least attempt to) confess to the killing to save her. Not sure if it's going to work.

I'm not sure if the Baxter theory is still tenable either. I know eyewitness identifications are notoriously unreliable. But it's hard to see how someone could see Baxter do something and then pull Anna out of the lineup. But then we're stuck with the idea that the murder really had nothing to do with anybody at Downton. One of the other women Green raped, probably. They did say he had a particular type. They probably all look more or less like Anna, something a good lawyer should have a field day with. So the killer probably someone we've never heard of, but that's just unnecessarily weak storycrafting - murderer ex machina.

This is how I know that Fellowes really does hate Edith:
Edith is the Meg of Downton Abbey...
posted by Naberius at 7:00 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


Two interesting scenes with Tom and Mary, and Tom and Edith. They struck me as almost teasers. As if Fellowes was taunting us..."Which one will hook-up with Tom?"

I liked the police's contempt and dismissal of Mary's "I am Lady Mary Crawley!". Title and rank is very important to Mary, and to have it so brusquely dealt with...well...Welcome to the 20th century ma'am. Go stick your privilege over there in the closet.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:10 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


Robert can't even look at Marigold and see Edith in her; he sees Gregson.

I took it as Robert seeing Edith in her daughter ("it's deja vu"), but when he verified his suspicions with Cora, he also wanted to find out of Gregson was the father. He knew it was Edith's kid.

I'm pretty sure that the Thomas/Denker/new footman plot had the lowest stakes of any plotline this season, and that's saying a lot.
posted by donajo at 9:09 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


We don't know the identity of the woman who supposedly identified Anna as Greene's killer, do we?
Any chance it's someone we've seen before on the show?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:42 AM on February 23, 2015


Something that has taken a few episodes for me to catch on to is the way they're addressing what the life of service has cost the older members of the staff and how they're facing that realization now that it's starting to change for the younger servants. Particularly the varied and ambivalent reactions people are having to Daisy's flowering.

It's not just the ambitions of youth, like Molesley's drive to involve himself in Daisy's growth because he never got to live his dreams. They've also given up family. The idea of Bates and Anna being married and living outside the house has already been noted as very unrealistic. But there's also the older women - Mrs. Patmore and Mrs. Hughes. There's no talk of husbands. Are they actually widows? Were all the older female servants of the time really widows or was the "Mrs." a polite term of office for someone who more likely just never married because they'd moved up the ladder of the staff where it wasn't permitted?

What really popped this into my consciousness last night was that beat of Mrs. Patmore being utterly bereft at the prospect of losing Daisy. Her life has been spent in that kitchen and Daisy really is the only daughter she's got. I found that quite touching and very sad.
posted by Naberius at 10:28 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


Were all the older female servants of the time really widows or was the "Mrs." a polite term of office for someone who more likely just never married because they'd moved up the ladder of the staff where it wasn't permitted?

"Mrs." was a title of respect for housekeepers and cooks. I believe Mrs. Hughes explains this when she sees the man who courted her back in her youth many years ago.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:34 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


Oh, and one more thing I forgot!

It went by quickly and maybe I misinterpreted what I saw, but in the preview for next week (the Christmas Special technically) was that one of the Merton brats trying to chat up Mary?!? Seriously? Come on Merton brat, how do you think that's going to turn out?
posted by Naberius at 1:00 PM on February 23, 2015


Well...As Mary told Tony, "You were what I needed, when I needed it." Take that as you will. To me, it came off as very "Thank you for the hot sex, Tony. Move along now."

So...who knows? Maybe Merton brat will be another thing she needs, when she needs it.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:23 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Come on Merton brat, how do you think that's going to turn out?

I hope it turns out terribly and she rips him a new one for both daring to come on to her and for insulting her mother-in-law/grandma of her child.

In other news, the Vulture review wants to argue a case for Mary being Green's killer, but frankly, I just don't see Mary as being that motivated enough to kill for her maid. I'm not sure who Mary WOULD kill for, really.

God, I'm so sick of Daisy, you have no idea. Admittedly, I do the same kind of thing about "mom and dad would be devastated if I'm gone? Um, never mind" IRL, but this is television and I want her to move the hell on already instead of being the sad little cook falling for the wrong dudes and generally acting dippy.

I actually thought this was a pretty good episode, or at least it was a lot more entertaining than most of the season.

I think it's interesting that Atticus has been on the show what, 3-4 episodes and they're already married--meanwhile Mary diddled about with those two dudes halfassedly for two seasons and could never motivate herself enough to pick one. Rose had to be a rebel somehow, but at least this guy's unusual issue isn't all that bad (until WWII anyway--what was happening to English Jews? Anyone know? I've never heard) . Anyway, Julian Fellowes finally hit on a relationship with some charm--though I think I'm in favor of a Moseley-Baxter pairing officially, that's not bad at all. She brings out the best in him and he supports her to the hilt. (And I kind of love Kuragin/Violet even though she's soooooo uncomfortable about it all. Uh, maybe that's the appeal because it's funny.)

I don't want Tom to leave, he's a rare voice of reason in this joint and even Mary and Edith agree on him. I've never been shipping Tom with Mary because both of them are CLEARLY not the other one's type, but this episode did make me kinda wish they'd go there a bit. Hell, I was even willing to somewhat tolerate Miss Bunting if she'd make Tom stick around (hah), but too late now. Has anyone heard if the actor wants to leave?

I'm all for Thomas using his powers of evil tricksiness for good, for a change. Thomas Barrow, 1920's PI could be fun.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:14 PM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


"I'm not sure who Mary WOULD kill for, really."

Carson. But only after some dithering and an abrupt realization that in fact she cares about him more than any member of her family.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:25 PM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


I want a spin-off of Carson and Hughes running their inn.
posted by neilbert at 5:14 AM on February 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


Oh Mary absolutely cares about Carson more than any other member of the family. Carson also cares about Mary more than anyone else. He might even care about her more than he cares about the house itself or The Old Ways, but I'm not sure. Carson and Mary moments are among the few that really get to me emotionally.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:17 AM on February 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Thomas Barrow, 1920's PI would be the best Downton Abbey spinoff.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 6:38 AM on February 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


Or Daisy gets a sitcom in which she goes to London and gets a job editing news copy for a radio station with a gruff yet fatherly boss and a goofball announcer. She gets a flat and becomes besties with her upstairs neighbor (maybe that maid who left in Season 1 to become a typist).

Every week the opening credits would end on a slow motion shot of Daisy, surrounded by the bustle and opportunity of 1920s London, whirling around in joy and tossing her cute little hat high into the air as the theme song crescendos on "you're gonna make it after all!"
posted by Naberius at 6:51 AM on February 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


Other brilliant lines of the episode: Lady Sinderby at the first dinner, evidently SO OVER the Jew-baiting: "Oh, didn't you know, we're Jewish, we pay our staff well."

And Mrs. Hughes, to Carson, something along the lines of "I would call you anything BUT unpredjudiced." Carson's shocked expression after that was delightful.
posted by Liesl at 7:22 AM on February 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I really hope that after the murder mystery is solve, they start giving the Bates family happier story-lines, or at least send them off to live in a cottage somewhere.
posted by drezdn at 7:58 AM on February 24, 2015


Until WWII anyway--what was happening to English Jews? Anyone know? I've never heard.

Participated in the war like everyone else, I'm pretty sure. One notable event is the Kindertransport, when the UK took in 10,000 children just prior to the outbreak of the war. Atticus's family would've certainly been involved with that.

But, what' s with *everyone* forgetting that Cora's half Jewish? Including her freakin' cousin-in-law or whatever. Also not a fan of Atticus not telling Rose right away that a blessing in the synagogue would be a no-go-- I very was confused when she brought it up, because I knew it wouldn't be allowed.
posted by damayanti at 8:00 AM on February 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


What struck me about this episode was Lord Grantham being awesome. With Cora's "my father is Jewish" moment, finding out about Marigold, and arranging for that memorial for Mrs Patmore's nephew. This is pretty counter to the complete ass he has been in the past. Did Isis have his soul for safekeeping, and now that she is gone he gets it back for everyday use?
posted by weathergal at 8:02 AM on February 24, 2015


Cheeky lady....or rather, Cheeky Lady's Maid, as Thomas put it. I'm completely mixed on how to handle Violet's maid, but she's definitely a counterpoint to our other lady's maids, Anna and Mrs. Baxster. Perhaps it's a call back to Mrs. O'Brian, who was name checked in this episode, after all, and who apparently, will be out of a job since her Scottish employers are pretty much bankrupt. I definitely love the chaotic neutral Thomas, someone who can be a bit petty and sneer, but genuinely can be a decent fellow from time to time. Of course, telling the guy to call him Uncle Thomas was a little odd, as it came across almost as if Thomas might be grooming him...not to be a valet. Yes, I'm poisoned against Thomas ever again being 100% altruistic, but I want to believe after the saline fiasco, he's taking it as a sign that he just needs to do his job and not be all together awful.

Carson and Mary. This is the relationship that I have loved from the beginning and it has nothing to do with Mary, but everything to do with Carson. The manner in which the actor portrays the fatherly love of a butler for his lady is just downright wonderful. It's the rare instances when we get to see Carson beam with affection and be a kind person, without having to immediately cover it up with some gruff one word response.

Atticus and Rose. Gee, those kids belong together! The anti-Jewish vitriol that was crammed into the episode once again showed that class doesn't equate to manners, particularly Rose's mother. It's rather sad with how they treated her character, degrading her one step at a time in contrast to Rose's father, who tried to protect his daughter's perception of her mother to the very end. Atticus' mother is a ball and his father, stubbornly drawn into it, appears to be the kind who will follow in the steps of the Earl Grantham, ultimately always conceding and agreeing with his wife. Incidentally, despite her claim that her family had arrived in the time of Richard III, the jewish population when it wasn't being tortured, demeaned and robbed, was expelled by Edward the I (Longshanks) in the 13th century and were not recorded to having any presence in England for centuries afterward (at least according to Wikipeida - though Longshanks did drive them out). Well done Fellowes!

Daisy. I actually love the person Daisy is becoming because she's the new Tom, the radical downstairs who's actually making a strong case now as to why the system she's involved in is a rotting one. At the same time, Fellowes isn't lettering her be this person, either, just like he refuses to let anyone adhere to such strong perspectives and remain in Downton. For Tom, he pulls him literally into the fold of the people upstairs and evolves him into a character that loves the people who he should detest. For Ms. Bunting, he sends her off on her way. And for Daisy, our character who for the longest amount of time has always been the door mouse to every cat, head down and subservient to her own feelings, he attacks her own motivations to explore the world and her possibilities with her attachment to Mrs. Padmore. It's as if the writer is stating, "Yes, the system is unfair, but everyone loves everyone and that makes up for it." I am probably being unfair, but every episode of Downton recharges my populist outlook on the world and drives me to wait for the day when Mary inherits the manor house, realizes there's no way she can keep it profitable and is forced to allow public tours through it most of the time while grumbling in a private suite.
But going back to Daisy, perhaps she will be the Moses to the folks downstairs and inspire them to look beyond Downton to the wider world. That's my hope.

Cora and Robert. As the head of our family, they must ultimately return to being the paragons of why the system is morally okay, becasue we have such wonderful people on top. Those who are not wonderful, i.e., people like Rose's mother, naturally are kicked out of the system, they loose their fortune and their standing, and move on. The others who are not kicked out are ridiculed and persented as dusty old antiques who still cling to the fashionable trends that Violet would call yesterday's style. Downton must serve as the shining example of what the landed class must be, and in this case, I felt as if the Earl was being burnished again, be it the memorial for Mrs. Padmore (which is great, since he didn't come up with the idea until he was paying for someone to carve a headstone for his Isis, to join a line of headstones for dogs that apparently go back at least a generation in the craft), with his reaction to the confirmation of Marigold's parentage, and his confession to Cora that the painting represented to him his worse behavior. It rolled back almost every negative comment or major act of his from the entire season, it righted the ship of how we're to respect and admire our thoughtful, kind hearted noble man.

Mary. One does not mess with Mary Crawley because she's extremely selfish and lacks a complete awareness of those not gazing back at her in a mirror. Her comment to Tony was pretty hard hitting, and obviously unintentionally so. She floats on a cloud of privileged ignorance and so far has generally been allowed to skip along in life when those times have occurred where her ship in the night has banged against one social iceberg or another.

Edith. She has Marigold. If the only thing we ever see of her again is playing with Marigold in the background of scenes, that would be enough for me. She wants her daughter to grow up English, which is a shame, since I do think she could become a stronger, more independent woman if she picked up and went with Tom to Boston. She wouldn't be castigated for being a loving mother, for one, and the state of being a single mother would not have nearly the same social burdens for finding a future spouse if she left the orbit of Downton and the privileged class, for two.

Violet and the Russian Prince. Perhaps it's because the actor playing the Prince has played the bad guy in other movies or shows, but I find something about him distrustful. I hope Violet sticks to her guns and refuses to be with him while his wife is still alive. It's not a matter of whether Violet deserves to enjoy this affection bordering on obsession, but it's not in her character. She extremely observant of her place and role in society as the Dowager, and it's not for her to marry again, but to pass away (hopefully way down the line) as the loyal widow to the father of the Earl.

Anna and Bates. Stop it. Seriously. Just stop. The only way this could get worse would be for Bates to confess and be allowed to go to prison for the murder. Then at which point Fellowes will realize he's accidentally been using the exact same notes for their characters' storyline from a couple seasons back and arrange for some kind of fix to everything.

However, I have an inkling, a suspicion that this will not be resolved in such a manner, but one that is even more entirely outrageous. Mrs. Baxster, if she was free of prison at the time, will confess instead and be lead off to jail, since she is a former felon, afterall. Why Mrs. Baxster? For a few reasons, the first being that she's a very strong element to Molesley being allowed to be happy for a change, and she's one of the few people who believe in him and support him. This show hates Molesley and since we have let off the petrol pedal of rubbing his nose in his aspirations to climb the downstairs pecking order, it makes sense that the next step will be to lay him cold with a strike at something he holds very dear and special in his heart. Molesley has doomed Mrs. Baxster. Second, the odd and awkward development of the relationship between Mrs. Baxster and Anna and Bates. She has repeatedly stated she will testify to keep Mr. Bates out of prison, and yet, Bates, at least, holds her at arms length and at a leg's worth of distrust. Her involvement in this storyline is almost entirely trivial, otherwise, if she does not have a larger role to play in it as we proceed. Third, Mrs. Baxster's background as a felon and caught up with a young valet/footman who did her wrong. Here we have another wicked valet who is destroying another woman's life, this can be Mrs. Baxster's chance to at least strike a blow of revenge against the man who sent her to prison...or at least the archetype. As a felon, she walks in an air of disgrace and it will be more believable that she would be willing to stoop to such an action.

So yes, this is how I fear this storyline, the Gorgon's Head of storylines that petrifies us all with outrage and incredulity, will very possibly end. I hope it doesn't. I hope the Christmas special features Marigold waking up and telling Edith about this silly dream about Lady Mary's maid and the Earl's valet beiing involved in a murder. Gosh and jolly, though, whatever it takes to put this dog to sleep.
posted by Atreides at 8:34 AM on February 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Do we know where Rose and Atticus will be honeymooning? Hopefully not on a tour of the continent that would include Germany.

I think the Merton brats are going to reveal themselves as nazi sympathizers. They just seem ripe for the role.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:46 AM on February 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am sooooo over the Anna and Bates storyline - not only because it is incredibly tedious and dull and a rehash of earlier plots, but I also think it's getting really cruel for every. single. episode. to be have nothing for them but "Hey Anna, remember that time you were raped?" I thought it was cheap, exploitative, lazy writing when it happened, and rubbing her [and the viewers'] nose in it every week is extra crappy.
posted by naoko at 1:59 PM on February 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


hope the Christmas special features Marigold waking up and telling Edith about this silly dream about Lady Mary's maid and the Earl's valet beiing involved in a murder...

Well, Marigold is shorter than Bates.
posted by Miko at 8:33 PM on February 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Participated in the war like everyone else, I'm pretty sure. One notable event is the Kindertransport, when the UK took in 10,000 children just prior to the outbreak of the war. Atticus's family would've certainly been involved with that.

Ah. I guess what I was wondering was, would the Sinderbys be worried about fleeing Europe just in case Hitler invaded England or something. I guess the Kindertransport indicates that wouldn't be an issue?

Perhaps it's a call back to Mrs. O'Brian, who was name checked in this episode, after all, and who apparently, will be out of a job since her Scottish employers are pretty much bankrupt.

Oh, duh, I forgot to mention that Mrs. O'Brien is already out of a job! Also quite a burn.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:18 PM on February 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I forgot to mention that Mrs. O'Brien is already out of a job!

Ah! So, Anna is being set-up by O'Brien, so that a position opens-up at Downton, that she can easily move into! Greene was pushed by O'Brian in a blonde wig. And the mysterious witness is none other than O'Brian herself!
posted by Thorzdad at 6:14 AM on February 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh, duh, I forgot to mention that Mrs. O'Brien is already out of a job! Also quite a burn.

I thought it was mentioned that Mrs. O'Brien had already moved on to a different job, with someone else in India.
posted by peacheater at 6:47 AM on February 25, 2015


Correct. Presumably to explain why she didn't return with Susan and Shrimpie and accompany them to Downton.

Such machinations being necessary because Siobhan Finneran departed the show between seasons. Not clear how amicable this departure was, but she didn't return for the first episode of the next season to do a one-day shoot of a clean exit. They had to insert a really confusing sequence (using another actor whose face we never saw) of her fleeing Downton with a suitcase in the dead of night and then have the other servants feather duster it for the audience so we'd know what the hell happened.

And I gather Shrimpie was basically coerced into marrying Susan so he gets a pass. But who the hell would voluntarily run away with Susan? I guess Karma had plans for O'Brien...
posted by Naberius at 7:31 AM on February 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


He might even care about her more than he cares about the house itself or The Old Ways, but I'm not sure.

I dunno, MORE than the Old Ways??? I'm remembering that scene where everyone listened to the King on the wireless, and Carson and Lord Grantham were tearing up with monarchist pride, while everyone else in the room rolled their eyes . . .

No one loves the Old Ways like Carson. What would he say if he knew about Lady Mary's dalliances? Still care more than for tradition?
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:58 AM on February 25, 2015


Carson loves security, more than anything.
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on February 25, 2015


Two things that confused me in this episode, if anyone's still reading and wants to clue me in.

What was Denker's play in that card place. I thought she had an arrangement with the owner whereby she would bring in newbies to get fleeced, and in return she got free drinks. If that wasn't it, then why HAD she been getting free drinks? And if that had been the arrangement, why did the boss backcharge her for the drinks?

Second, with regard to Anna's arrest: leaving aside all the other implausibilities of that investigation, why couldn't Mary just provide her with an alibi? They were in London together, which is different from when the suspicion was about Bates's solo trip to York/London.
posted by torticat at 12:15 AM on February 26, 2015


What was Denker's play in that card place. I thought she had an arrangement with the owner whereby she would bring in newbies to get fleeced, and in return she got free drinks. If that wasn't it, then why HAD she been getting free drinks? And if that had been the arrangement, why did the boss backcharge her for the drinks?

That was the arrangement, however Thomas told the owner that Denker had just been grabbing random people who were going to enter the establishment anyway and pretending that she brought them with her. For whatever reason, the owner believe Thomas and backcharged Denker for her drinks.

Second, with regard to Anna's arrest: leaving aside all the other implausibilities of that investigation, why couldn't Mary just provide her with an alibi? They were in London together, which is different from when the suspicion was about Bates's solo trip to York/London.

They were in London together, however Mary had left a message to be sent to Lord Gillingham with Anna, and she delivered it in person, thus allowing the constable who had been implausibly stationed to watch all comings and goings from the Gillingham residence to see her. So she was already known to be approximately in the right area to do in Green.
posted by peacheater at 6:43 AM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


Thanks for the response, peacheater. I get the Denker thing now. Was so confused.

Re Mary and Anna, wasn't that a different trip to London, just a couple episodes ago? Green was already dead, which is why the constable was (I agree implausibly) was watching the house. Last season--I think I have this right--Anna and Mary were also in London, at the time Mary asked Gillingham to let Green go. The next day they found out Green had been hit by a bus. I guess there would have been opportunity for Anna to be off on her own killing Green while Mary was with Gillingham, asking him to fire him. (LOL Julian Fellowes!).
posted by torticat at 7:08 AM on February 26, 2015


Oh yes, you're absolutely right, torticat. Obviously the constable wouldn't have been on watch before Green was even killed. My only excuse is this whole plotline has been going on waaaay too long.
posted by peacheater at 7:24 AM on February 26, 2015


I honestly don't remember why Anna was in London at the time of Greene's death. The synopsis on Wikipedia for that time period offers nothing and I'm too afraid of stumbling over a spoiler to do any deeper research. I don't remember her being there at all, zip, zilch, nada, nothing.....argh.
posted by Atreides at 7:40 AM on February 26, 2015


Anyone think it was in bad taste to put the memorial for Mrs Patmore's Archie up against a wall?
posted by biffa at 7:14 AM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


That's hilarious and I hadn't considered it.


...though they probably stole it from at least the manor that belonged to the Spencers, where they memorialized the killed from the war with monuments embedded in a wall on the estate.
posted by Atreides at 8:41 AM on March 29, 2015


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