Captain America: Brave New World (2025)
February 14, 2025 6:39 AM - Subscribe
Sam Wilson, the new Captain America, finds himself in the middle of an international incident and must discover the motive behind a nefarious global plan.
New York magazine:
Harrison Ford was one of the crankiest performers I ever dealt with. Which was sad. I’m a fan. But he was very much a diva. I don’t know if you remember, but he got in a plane crash. He couldn’t even raise his left arm above his chest. We have to suit up 80-something Harrison Ford in these motion-capture dots. To me, it seemed like he hated it and didn’t want to do it. And when Harrison was done, he was done. Everyone was trying to scramble to make him happy. That made for a very awkward work environment.posted by Lemkin at 1:03 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
"Easily the stupidest MCU movie."
That's a pretty bold statement, the competition is strong for this title.
posted by Marky at 7:08 PM on February 14 [6 favorites]
That's a pretty bold statement, the competition is strong for this title.
posted by Marky at 7:08 PM on February 14 [6 favorites]
I'd like to read Lemkin's linked article, but can't find an archive link. If this is trivial for someone, I'd appreciate it.
posted by Well I never at 10:03 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Well I never at 10:03 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
Here you go.
Next time just go to archive.is (or one of the other archive sites), paste the URL into the search box, and that's it.
The Web Archives browser extension is another way.
posted by trig at 10:20 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Next time just go to archive.is (or one of the other archive sites), paste the URL into the search box, and that's it.
The Web Archives browser extension is another way.
posted by trig at 10:20 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
How necessary is it to have watched other MCU material to follow the plot in this one?
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:20 AM on February 15
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:20 AM on February 15
How necessary is it to have watched other MCU material to follow the plot in this one?
If you want to know who a couple of main cast members are, then you probably need to watch the show The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney+. (Seriously, this movie could have been another episode of that show). A couple of other characters haven’t been seen since 2008’s The Incredible Hulk also show up, although that’s probably less essential. Oh, and there’s a big thing in the middle of the ocean from Eternals, but you don’t need to know anything about that movie except they left a big thing in the middle of the ocean. Or you can watch a recap of everything here.
I mostly enjoyed myself seeing this, and I don’t want to shit on this movie too hard, but it’s probably not worth sitting through homework if you’re not already up to speed.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:58 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
If you want to know who a couple of main cast members are, then you probably need to watch the show The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney+. (Seriously, this movie could have been another episode of that show). A couple of other characters haven’t been seen since 2008’s The Incredible Hulk also show up, although that’s probably less essential. Oh, and there’s a big thing in the middle of the ocean from Eternals, but you don’t need to know anything about that movie except they left a big thing in the middle of the ocean. Or you can watch a recap of everything here.
I mostly enjoyed myself seeing this, and I don’t want to shit on this movie too hard, but it’s probably not worth sitting through homework if you’re not already up to speed.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:58 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I mostly liked it, although part of the mental adjustment needed is to realize that it's not really the story of Sam Wilson (the new Captain America, the former Falcon), who got some nice character development in the unjustly-maligned The Falcon and the Winter Soldier series and gets very little here; it's really the story of Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross, the general-turned-Secretary-of-State-turned President formerly played by William Hurt and here by Harrison Ford. He's someone who's failed upward more than once, having been largely responsible for both the Hulk and the Hulk's would-be captor-turned-supervillain(-turned self-help guru in the She-Hulk series) the Abomination, then the architect of the Sokovia Accords which split up the Avengers in Captain America: Civil War. Here, having become president, he's trying to negotiate a treaty to mine the Celestial corpse for adamantium, which is known in comics mostly for being the stuff that Wolverine's bones are made out of, which is interesting because of the exceedingly majestic speed at which Marvel Studios has crept toward bringing the X-Men into the MCU. But the chickens are coming home to roost for Ross in a big way. He's the only one in the film that has a solid character arc, really. And it is somewhat cathartic to see a chief executive running roughshod over the law finally getting his comeuppance.
So the actual villain of the film isn't much of a much. He's supposed to be extremely smart, and it's difficult to write extremely smart villains; it was managed pretty well in this film's real predecessor, Captain America: Civil War, with Helmut Zemo, who had no powers or really special abilities but managed to play a lot of people very well in order to get his revenge. Here, the villain uses mind control, which is sort of boring. The Red Hulk is much more compelling for the few minutes of screen time that he's got. Given that the next MCU movie is The Thunderbolts*, I was expecting at least a mid-credits scene, but no dice; instead, we get a cryptic scene from the villain that's supposed to be ominous but is mostly noncommittal, which makes me wonder if they're still ironing out a lot of the details regarding the planned replacement for Kang. But, anyway, the action scenes are mostly OK, although the Black Widow who gets to share some of that with Cap and Falcon isn't as much fun as either Scarlett Johansen or Florence Pugh, who is in T-bolts*.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:28 PM on February 15 [5 favorites]
So the actual villain of the film isn't much of a much. He's supposed to be extremely smart, and it's difficult to write extremely smart villains; it was managed pretty well in this film's real predecessor, Captain America: Civil War, with Helmut Zemo, who had no powers or really special abilities but managed to play a lot of people very well in order to get his revenge. Here, the villain uses mind control, which is sort of boring. The Red Hulk is much more compelling for the few minutes of screen time that he's got. Given that the next MCU movie is The Thunderbolts*, I was expecting at least a mid-credits scene, but no dice; instead, we get a cryptic scene from the villain that's supposed to be ominous but is mostly noncommittal, which makes me wonder if they're still ironing out a lot of the details regarding the planned replacement for Kang. But, anyway, the action scenes are mostly OK, although the Black Widow who gets to share some of that with Cap and Falcon isn't as much fun as either Scarlett Johansen or Florence Pugh, who is in T-bolts*.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:28 PM on February 15 [5 favorites]
A film out of time. Its repeatedly emphasized reverence for the office of the President of the United States is not just distasteful but alien, like watching people run through airports in movies made before 9/11.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:23 PM on February 15 [10 favorites]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:23 PM on February 15 [10 favorites]
It looked, felt, and sounded like a television episode. I squirmed in my seat a lot.
I didn't need to know there were five writers, nor about all the reshoots and release delay, to know it felt chopped up and uneven.
The final scene had a piece of perfunctory Message Service that would have been fine if anything at all had happened by way of character development, exposition, or action to earn it. As it is, they laid none of that track to get us there, then hucked the line in and it was just, "well, the rest of the script felt like a hackneyed cut--and-paste job, so they might as well mangle their nobler sentiments, too." The character (and the sentiment) was way better served by the Disney+ series.
I squirmed more than I did for The Eternals.
posted by A forgotten .plan file at 10:32 PM on February 15 [1 favorite]
I didn't need to know there were five writers, nor about all the reshoots and release delay, to know it felt chopped up and uneven.
The final scene had a piece of perfunctory Message Service that would have been fine if anything at all had happened by way of character development, exposition, or action to earn it. As it is, they laid none of that track to get us there, then hucked the line in and it was just, "well, the rest of the script felt like a hackneyed cut--and-paste job, so they might as well mangle their nobler sentiments, too." The character (and the sentiment) was way better served by the Disney+ series.
I squirmed more than I did for The Eternals.
posted by A forgotten .plan file at 10:32 PM on February 15 [1 favorite]
Saw it today after hearing vague things about it being absolutely awful.
Which was weird because I was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. Certainly not flawless or unproblematic. But what they got right are things I think are important in a story, particularly for the superhero genre: character.
Anthony Mackie shines as the new cap who's very aware of the footsteps he's following in. He's certain of who he is, but not totally sure he can do this, but he'll do his best.
Not much character development going here, but that's ok. Captain America is ultimately an icon, sort of "born right" which was often a synonym for being white. Seeing that applied to a black man this time sits right with this born and raised black male.
Where the movie really shines is showing a more human side of Ross, who really just wanted to make things right with his child. But in order to do he made and excused terrible choices of his own. Terrible, but who can argue that they wouldn't have done something similar? Maybe not those exact steps, sure. But something.
Particularly since Ross was such a hard ass military guy, who can really change who they are so late in life? It's the story into a tragedy and it's such a great touch
The CGI is sometimes subpar, but the action is well directed. The film has a few two many characters that we have no reason to care about, like the Ross's aide, the Israeli head of security, or the always great Giancarlo Esposito as SIdewinder. Oh sure, we'll see them in some other films down the line, but here they feel like unnecessary add-ons: they're fine or even good, but not needed for this movie.
The action was good and well done, but I always struggle with the impossible physics of superhero films. But there's one scene where Sam, as Cap, does use the, not even sure of the term, the backdraft? windoverflow? of him flying so fast to knock out a few enemies.
Overall, a good story in the superhero genre and worth a watch.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:39 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
Which was weird because I was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. Certainly not flawless or unproblematic. But what they got right are things I think are important in a story, particularly for the superhero genre: character.
Anthony Mackie shines as the new cap who's very aware of the footsteps he's following in. He's certain of who he is, but not totally sure he can do this, but he'll do his best.
Not much character development going here, but that's ok. Captain America is ultimately an icon, sort of "born right" which was often a synonym for being white. Seeing that applied to a black man this time sits right with this born and raised black male.
Where the movie really shines is showing a more human side of Ross, who really just wanted to make things right with his child. But in order to do he made and excused terrible choices of his own. Terrible, but who can argue that they wouldn't have done something similar? Maybe not those exact steps, sure. But something.
Particularly since Ross was such a hard ass military guy, who can really change who they are so late in life? It's the story into a tragedy and it's such a great touch
The CGI is sometimes subpar, but the action is well directed. The film has a few two many characters that we have no reason to care about, like the Ross's aide, the Israeli head of security, or the always great Giancarlo Esposito as SIdewinder. Oh sure, we'll see them in some other films down the line, but here they feel like unnecessary add-ons: they're fine or even good, but not needed for this movie.
The action was good and well done, but I always struggle with the impossible physics of superhero films. But there's one scene where Sam, as Cap, does use the, not even sure of the term, the backdraft? windoverflow? of him flying so fast to knock out a few enemies.
Overall, a good story in the superhero genre and worth a watch.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:39 AM on February 16 [9 favorites]
probably not worth sitting through homework if you’re not already up to speed.
Having just watched the recap, I can confirm this.
posted by Paul Slade at 6:32 AM on February 16
Having just watched the recap, I can confirm this.
posted by Paul Slade at 6:32 AM on February 16
I saw it at an Alamo Drafthouse, which had produced their own "The Story Thus Far" film, which I assume is similar to the homework 1970s Antihero linked to. I was going into the movie cold, and it would have been pretty unsatisfactory without some backstory. As it is, I thought it was OK—a couple hours of diversion—and I could tell it was trying to be something more, but was not really succeeding at that.
posted by adamrice at 5:47 AM on February 17
posted by adamrice at 5:47 AM on February 17
There's forty minutes or so of a very good movie here- everything with Isaiah Bradley, the 1950s cap, was pretty good, and most of the stuff with the new falcon. Then there's another hour and a half or whatever of the movie that it is.
I'm very curious about what this movie would've looked like with a few hundred thousand votes gone another way last fall.
posted by fomhar at 9:32 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
I'm very curious about what this movie would've looked like with a few hundred thousand votes gone another way last fall.
posted by fomhar at 9:32 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
They should've released an entire film about Bradley doing neighborhood shit, get Luke Cage in there maybe, film it for a few million with basically no special effects or green screen, throw it up on disney plus.
posted by fomhar at 9:34 AM on February 17 [4 favorites]
posted by fomhar at 9:34 AM on February 17 [4 favorites]
I think my main question about the movie has to do with Secret Service emergency protocols; When President Ross suddenly transforms into the Red Hulk in the middle of a Rose Garden speech, his own bodyguards start firing on him IMMEDIATELY. I'm just wondering what would it take for this sort of contingency to kick in if it happened in real life? No reason, just asking!
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:32 PM on February 17 [5 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:32 PM on February 17 [5 favorites]
They could have called this movie Captain America: Every Scene an Exposition
there was so ... much ... talking here just to explain what was going on / going to happen / should have happened
I really like Mackie's Cap/Falcon and am irked they're not just letting him go save the world
posted by chavenet at 4:39 AM on February 18 [3 favorites]
there was so ... much ... talking here just to explain what was going on / going to happen / should have happened
I really like Mackie's Cap/Falcon and am irked they're not just letting him go save the world
posted by chavenet at 4:39 AM on February 18 [3 favorites]
I don’t get an above comment saying the original Captain America was “born right” since his character literally was not born correctly to be a soldier let alone a super soldier. It was super science that did that combined with his willpower.
Of all the characters in the MCU, Steve Rogers is the one who was the weakest pre-event.
Maybe I misread what you meant.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 5:17 PM on February 19 [2 favorites]
Of all the characters in the MCU, Steve Rogers is the one who was the weakest pre-event.
Maybe I misread what you meant.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 5:17 PM on February 19 [2 favorites]
So that seemed... serviceable. Thought it was better than the weaker recent MCU movies, but not up to the standards of their golden age.
Mostly decent action scenes despite the difficulty of making the wings+shield combo work. As is traditional the final battle was a dull cgi-fest.
Anthony Mackie was great, glad they're actually letting him just be Captain America. Good decision to bring back the Isaiah Bradley character and sub-plot. Quite liked the Ruth Bat-Seraph character too who moves a bit away from the hot-babe-in-spandex stereotype.
Bit disappointed by Harrison Ford who seemed a bit low energy and unconvincing. He doesn't really do rage or suppressed rage too well. Just seems too much like a loveable grandad who's peeved by the self-checkout system. With Samuel Sterns barely on screen and Sidewinder easily defeated, there was a lack of strong antagonists. Also some terrible exposition like the incredibly clunky speech from Bucky Barnes.
Felt like there was a better movie somewhere inside, but after bulging at the trouser legs a bit it retreats back. Looks like another case of too much studio meddling. I wonder if they originally had Ross being a clearer baddie, but after panicking at the relevance of an evil rage monster becoming president they decided to try and make him nicer, and Captain America nicer to him.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:31 PM on February 19
Mostly decent action scenes despite the difficulty of making the wings+shield combo work. As is traditional the final battle was a dull cgi-fest.
Anthony Mackie was great, glad they're actually letting him just be Captain America. Good decision to bring back the Isaiah Bradley character and sub-plot. Quite liked the Ruth Bat-Seraph character too who moves a bit away from the hot-babe-in-spandex stereotype.
Bit disappointed by Harrison Ford who seemed a bit low energy and unconvincing. He doesn't really do rage or suppressed rage too well. Just seems too much like a loveable grandad who's peeved by the self-checkout system. With Samuel Sterns barely on screen and Sidewinder easily defeated, there was a lack of strong antagonists. Also some terrible exposition like the incredibly clunky speech from Bucky Barnes.
Felt like there was a better movie somewhere inside, but after bulging at the trouser legs a bit it retreats back. Looks like another case of too much studio meddling. I wonder if they originally had Ross being a clearer baddie, but after panicking at the relevance of an evil rage monster becoming president they decided to try and make him nicer, and Captain America nicer to him.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:31 PM on February 19
How necessary is it to have watched other MCU material to follow the plot in this one?
It depends on the person. The things that you need to know to follow the plot are explained, e.g. a place called "Celestial Island" has appeared and different countries want its resources. It doesn't tell you how "Celestial Island" came to exist and why it looks like a giant dude with four eyes climbing out of the ocean.
Some people are happy to keep going with minimal information, as long as they know how it affects the plot. Some people seem to be really bugged by this and can't enjoy the movie if they don't know why these things are the way they are.
If you're a need-to-know-why person you will be bugged by this movie unless you're familiar with the 2008 "The Incredible Hulk", the 2021 "Eternals" movie, and the 2021 "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier" mini-series.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:54 AM on February 20
It depends on the person. The things that you need to know to follow the plot are explained, e.g. a place called "Celestial Island" has appeared and different countries want its resources. It doesn't tell you how "Celestial Island" came to exist and why it looks like a giant dude with four eyes climbing out of the ocean.
Some people are happy to keep going with minimal information, as long as they know how it affects the plot. Some people seem to be really bugged by this and can't enjoy the movie if they don't know why these things are the way they are.
If you're a need-to-know-why person you will be bugged by this movie unless you're familiar with the 2008 "The Incredible Hulk", the 2021 "Eternals" movie, and the 2021 "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier" mini-series.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:54 AM on February 20
Funny you mention the Celestial Island. I had no idea what that was because one of the few blank spots in my MCU consumption is ... The Eternals.
For a bit I thought it was Ant-Man related somehow, like coming out of the quantum world and freezing in the ocean.
posted by chavenet at 4:30 AM on February 20
For a bit I thought it was Ant-Man related somehow, like coming out of the quantum world and freezing in the ocean.
posted by chavenet at 4:30 AM on February 20
I did see The Eternals and I think I forgot everything that happened in it before I had left the theater.
posted by adamrice at 7:18 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by adamrice at 7:18 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
This was serviceable as a film. The action was mostly fine, and the plot mostly worked. The decision to make the film hinge on Ross rather than Wilson was odd to say the least.
The thing is that the film made it clear that Ross hadn't done terrible things in the past, he actually continued to do terrible things, including keep Isaiah Bradley on death row long past where it was at all appropriate. While he goes to jail at the end, his redemption doesn't feel terribly earned. I feel like the film wants the confrontation in the cherry blossoms to have more weight but I just don't think the film sells it.
I do think there are the bones of a good film but too many scenes didn't quite work.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 3:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
The thing is that the film made it clear that Ross hadn't done terrible things in the past, he actually continued to do terrible things, including keep Isaiah Bradley on death row long past where it was at all appropriate. While he goes to jail at the end, his redemption doesn't feel terribly earned. I feel like the film wants the confrontation in the cherry blossoms to have more weight but I just don't think the film sells it.
I do think there are the bones of a good film but too many scenes didn't quite work.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 3:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
You know what, I think I need to complain a little more here.
The whole thing of Sam feeling like he should've taken the serum is kind of dumb. I mean first of all, yes he probably should have if he really wants his job to be fighting supervillains.
But the thing is that he doesn't act like someone who hasn't taken a serum. He literally flies at missiles and carves them in two, surviving basically due to "uh vibranium be crazy I guess!"
He survives being shot and stabbed in this film, a villain even tells him his rib was broken and it never bothers him. It happened so much I honestly assumed they were going to reveal that he somehow did get a healing factor! But no apparently he's an ordinary human.
And the confrontation with the hulk.. I mean he should have died, clearly. And my word the whole plan of "I'll try to talk him down, and when that doesn't work I will fight him. And when that doesn't work I will try talking him down again and for some reason this time it will work!"
posted by Cannon Fodder at 2:26 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
The whole thing of Sam feeling like he should've taken the serum is kind of dumb. I mean first of all, yes he probably should have if he really wants his job to be fighting supervillains.
But the thing is that he doesn't act like someone who hasn't taken a serum. He literally flies at missiles and carves them in two, surviving basically due to "uh vibranium be crazy I guess!"
He survives being shot and stabbed in this film, a villain even tells him his rib was broken and it never bothers him. It happened so much I honestly assumed they were going to reveal that he somehow did get a healing factor! But no apparently he's an ordinary human.
And the confrontation with the hulk.. I mean he should have died, clearly. And my word the whole plan of "I'll try to talk him down, and when that doesn't work I will fight him. And when that doesn't work I will try talking him down again and for some reason this time it will work!"
posted by Cannon Fodder at 2:26 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
I don’t get an above comment saying the original Captain America was “born right” since his character literally was not born correctly to be a soldier let alone a super soldier. It was super science that did that combined with his willpower.
I haven't seen this movie, so I don't know the context of the particular comment you mention. I do know that, in the comics, the idea has always been that it's Steve's inner grit and moral strength that make him a hero. The serum just gives him the physical power to put that heroism into practice on a much larger scale.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:12 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
I haven't seen this movie, so I don't know the context of the particular comment you mention. I do know that, in the comics, the idea has always been that it's Steve's inner grit and moral strength that make him a hero. The serum just gives him the physical power to put that heroism into practice on a much larger scale.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:12 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
He survives being shot and stabbed in this film, a villain even tells him his rib was broken and it never bothers him
There is a throwaway line about kevlar under his shirt, but it was pretty lazy.
I dunno guys, I had a completely different reaction to this film than a lot of you. First superhero films (epic) is my love language so I don't mind handwavey stuff that much; I'm looking for epics as repositories of cultural understanding and values. I am not super versed in comic book lore; for me this has always been a film medium, the blockbuster superhero thing.
I am enjoying most of the continued Marvel universe (I did not make it through The Eternals but I'm going to try again and see if I think they represent the earth's billionaires or something) if only because for me it traces a slice of America's understanding of itself.
Anyways, to frame my experience yesterday I spent the morning talking to American relatives and then I went in to see it and one of the first trailers was for the new Superman, which gets me in the chest every time with the kid in the middle of the world conflict raising the tattered flag for Superman's help. It makes me think of how Siegle and Schuster created Superman because they wanted a symbol of hope and a champion of justice who would stand up for the weak, on the eve of WWII and after the depression. (Yes I watched too many Heritage Minutes.) So I was already weepy, I will admit.
Then I agree there was a bit of a mess of a movie and it does help to have watched The Falcon and the Winter Soldier but at the same time...the heart of it is a guy who isn't superhuman trying to carry the weight of being that symbol of hope and justice as a black man in America. I don't judge him for having respect for the office of the President; I understand that desire.
But what really stood out to me is how firmly the movie sat on the side of Sam's empathy. The way that he approaches everyone is consistent, and it's consistent with his character going straight back. It is what everyone also knows about him; he's not a jerk with a secret golden heart, he's not a historical anachronism, he's not a man-child with daddy issues. He's a strong, tough guy who will try to talk to you before you try to punch him. And a black man in America. And the world is kind of eating him alive bit by bit and yet he persists.
How many people are feeling that right now in the US, that they want to continue to meet people with respect and keep getting stabbed. I mean...Sam's a gov't worker whose president almost starts a war over resources and then hulks out, like - yeah.
Isaiah Bradley made me cry at every moment he was trapped. Like I said I was having a cry-y day which is rare, I think I saved it all up, but oh my god. It was something. The Marvel movies so weirdly do grief and loss right every now and then, but trapped -- really trapped, not like 'trapped in your past' or whatever -- stands out quite a bit.
I do think the Red Hulk plot was hackneyed and Harrison Ford was miscast - oh, the love of that Good Daughter, Liv Tyler appearing in a haze of soft lighting, ugh, didn't believe it, also she didn't say fuck you dad - but still, Thaddeus fighting the rage and then losing it and trashing the White House was an appropriate cultural epic - borderline silly epic, but very mad king for a mad king moment. I didn't quite get the immediate shooting on the part of the service either, but that felt like a set up for X-men.
The Bucky speech was annoying but I might buy him as a politician now. Not sure how this will track with Thunderbolts, so I'm kind of intrigued if those plotlines actually track. Maybe other people know this already but I don't.
Anyways, it got me the feels, my brain is less impressed, but that is kind of the way of epics. I think it's a decent addition to the fold. I think it starts to reflect on how good people who care for others can actually operate in a Trump 2.0 America (even if it was in the can, so maybe a post-Trump 1.0 America) and that is kind of the role of epic. Not sure I agree with Sam's solution but I believe in his stance if that makes sense.
We also saw a Fantastic 4 trailer that looks visually/set design-licious.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:04 AM on February 24 [2 favorites]
There is a throwaway line about kevlar under his shirt, but it was pretty lazy.
I dunno guys, I had a completely different reaction to this film than a lot of you. First superhero films (epic) is my love language so I don't mind handwavey stuff that much; I'm looking for epics as repositories of cultural understanding and values. I am not super versed in comic book lore; for me this has always been a film medium, the blockbuster superhero thing.
I am enjoying most of the continued Marvel universe (I did not make it through The Eternals but I'm going to try again and see if I think they represent the earth's billionaires or something) if only because for me it traces a slice of America's understanding of itself.
Anyways, to frame my experience yesterday I spent the morning talking to American relatives and then I went in to see it and one of the first trailers was for the new Superman, which gets me in the chest every time with the kid in the middle of the world conflict raising the tattered flag for Superman's help. It makes me think of how Siegle and Schuster created Superman because they wanted a symbol of hope and a champion of justice who would stand up for the weak, on the eve of WWII and after the depression. (Yes I watched too many Heritage Minutes.) So I was already weepy, I will admit.
Then I agree there was a bit of a mess of a movie and it does help to have watched The Falcon and the Winter Soldier but at the same time...the heart of it is a guy who isn't superhuman trying to carry the weight of being that symbol of hope and justice as a black man in America. I don't judge him for having respect for the office of the President; I understand that desire.
But what really stood out to me is how firmly the movie sat on the side of Sam's empathy. The way that he approaches everyone is consistent, and it's consistent with his character going straight back. It is what everyone also knows about him; he's not a jerk with a secret golden heart, he's not a historical anachronism, he's not a man-child with daddy issues. He's a strong, tough guy who will try to talk to you before you try to punch him. And a black man in America. And the world is kind of eating him alive bit by bit and yet he persists.
How many people are feeling that right now in the US, that they want to continue to meet people with respect and keep getting stabbed. I mean...Sam's a gov't worker whose president almost starts a war over resources and then hulks out, like - yeah.
Isaiah Bradley made me cry at every moment he was trapped. Like I said I was having a cry-y day which is rare, I think I saved it all up, but oh my god. It was something. The Marvel movies so weirdly do grief and loss right every now and then, but trapped -- really trapped, not like 'trapped in your past' or whatever -- stands out quite a bit.
I do think the Red Hulk plot was hackneyed and Harrison Ford was miscast - oh, the love of that Good Daughter, Liv Tyler appearing in a haze of soft lighting, ugh, didn't believe it, also she didn't say fuck you dad - but still, Thaddeus fighting the rage and then losing it and trashing the White House was an appropriate cultural epic - borderline silly epic, but very mad king for a mad king moment. I didn't quite get the immediate shooting on the part of the service either, but that felt like a set up for X-men.
The Bucky speech was annoying but I might buy him as a politician now. Not sure how this will track with Thunderbolts, so I'm kind of intrigued if those plotlines actually track. Maybe other people know this already but I don't.
Anyways, it got me the feels, my brain is less impressed, but that is kind of the way of epics. I think it's a decent addition to the fold. I think it starts to reflect on how good people who care for others can actually operate in a Trump 2.0 America (even if it was in the can, so maybe a post-Trump 1.0 America) and that is kind of the role of epic. Not sure I agree with Sam's solution but I believe in his stance if that makes sense.
We also saw a Fantastic 4 trailer that looks visually/set design-licious.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:04 AM on February 24 [2 favorites]
The Bucky speech was annoying but I might buy him as a politician now. Not sure how this will track with Thunderbolts, so I'm kind of intrigued if those plotlines actually track. Maybe other people know this already but I don't.
Yeah, Bucky looks like he's living a little rough in the early scenes in the Thunderbolts trailer, keeping his bionic arm in the dishwasher and such, seems like the movie catches him at a low point. I do kind of wonder how one would pull off a successful Senatorial campaign after spending the entire Cold War and post-9/11 period as the brainwashed assassin who canonically (at least according to the Zola-AI in Winter Soldier) killed JFK. I mean, it makes me at least wonder who he was running against?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:13 AM on February 24
Yeah, Bucky looks like he's living a little rough in the early scenes in the Thunderbolts trailer, keeping his bionic arm in the dishwasher and such, seems like the movie catches him at a low point. I do kind of wonder how one would pull off a successful Senatorial campaign after spending the entire Cold War and post-9/11 period as the brainwashed assassin who canonically (at least according to the Zola-AI in Winter Soldier) killed JFK. I mean, it makes me at least wonder who he was running against?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:13 AM on February 24
keeping his bionic arm in the dishwasher and such
Maybe I have too much gym equipment in my life but I assumed he was washing it. :)
But yeah, I'm not sure how his past plays. Although again, post-Trump world. I do wonder who he was running against.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:46 AM on February 24
Maybe I have too much gym equipment in my life but I assumed he was washing it. :)
But yeah, I'm not sure how his past plays. Although again, post-Trump world. I do wonder who he was running against.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:46 AM on February 24
I assumed he was washing it. :)
See, that's what I thought at first too. But if you can wash your bionic arm in the dishwasher, why wouldn't you just wear it in the shower?
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:03 PM on February 24
See, that's what I thought at first too. But if you can wash your bionic arm in the dishwasher, why wouldn't you just wear it in the shower?
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:03 PM on February 24
No Jet Dry to keep your vibranium shiny?
posted by warriorqueen at 12:06 PM on February 25
posted by warriorqueen at 12:06 PM on February 25
why wouldn't you just wear it in the shower?
What if you need to clean the shmutz out of your arm socket?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:07 AM on February 26
What if you need to clean the shmutz out of your arm socket?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:07 AM on February 26
Saw it last night.
It's a movie where a hotheaded, impulsive president is being mentally controlled by a deranged villain, turns into an orange monster, sets out on a rampage to destroy the nation's capital, and starts a conflict with an allied country in a dispute over rare minerals.
But at the end, the president owns up to his shortcomings...so, yeah, pretty unrealistic. Not many people in the audience (Rosevlile, Minnesota), if there had been a bigger crowd, a couple of the early statements along the line of "I was elected to represent all the people" would have been met with audible laughs and jeers.
like watching people run through airports in movies made before 9/11
Very good analogy.
I liked Anthony Mackie. Everything else was kind of meh.
posted by gimonca at 6:58 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
It's a movie where a hotheaded, impulsive president is being mentally controlled by a deranged villain, turns into an orange monster, sets out on a rampage to destroy the nation's capital, and starts a conflict with an allied country in a dispute over rare minerals.
But at the end, the president owns up to his shortcomings...so, yeah, pretty unrealistic. Not many people in the audience (Rosevlile, Minnesota), if there had been a bigger crowd, a couple of the early statements along the line of "I was elected to represent all the people" would have been met with audible laughs and jeers.
like watching people run through airports in movies made before 9/11
Very good analogy.
I liked Anthony Mackie. Everything else was kind of meh.
posted by gimonca at 6:58 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
The dishwasher: good for sex toys and vibranium prosthetics (which sounds like sex toys).
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:34 PM on March 6
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:34 PM on March 6
This was some next-level nonsense. I mean, most MCU movies are, but they weren't even trying to make the CGI feel real. Nothing had any weight. Anything can happen because mass doesn't exist. Regular human Captain America could have been interesting if they let him be a regular human, but nope, he can still take a Hulk punch or fall from a thousand feet without instant death. When that happens, there are no stakes, no peril.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:07 AM on March 13
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:07 AM on March 13
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posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:49 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]