Andor: Harvest
April 23, 2025 4:33 AM - Season 2, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Time is running out for everyone.
The "Leftist Infighting Simulator" militia show got even better, of course Cinta shows up just to clean loose ends, the Niamos wedding disco remix was a banger, and Dedra girlbossing Eedy was amazing.
Really good opening arc. I'm still getting my head around the fact that there's a year jump now to episode 4, and we'll get 4 story arcs even more separated than season 1 where at least every episode basically followed straight into the next.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:49 AM on April 23 [5 favorites]
Really good opening arc. I'm still getting my head around the fact that there's a year jump now to episode 4, and we'll get 4 story arcs even more separated than season 1 where at least every episode basically followed straight into the next.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:49 AM on April 23 [5 favorites]
Also, the treatment of undocumented laborers was sickening. Star Wars for grownups, indeed.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:35 AM on April 23 [13 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 6:35 AM on April 23 [13 favorites]
So, Dedra is actually a pretty decent partner! Good for her.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 8:13 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 8:13 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
I would not go so far as to say Dedra is a decent partner. I am sure she is using Syril to further her obsession with finding Axis. That whole scene is just establishing who is in charge of him now.
posted by briank at 9:21 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
posted by briank at 9:21 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
-Cinta's reappearance (and we all know what THAT means)
It's been so long since season 1 I forgot who Cinta was. I honestly suspected that Tay left early because he had already informed on her, and had inside information that a raid was going to be executed during the reception.
That whole scene is just establishing who is in charge of him now.
We did get an awkward moment explaining Dedra's backstory: both parents killed, and raised in a state orphanage. With that, she now has a revenge backstory optioned. She's even convincing them to help her arm a rebellion, which could help her exact any such revenge.
-A Chandrilan rave
While discobot was cool, I think the DJs in the thread will be more interested in Kleya's two turntable listening post.
posted by pwnguin at 9:59 AM on April 23 [3 favorites]
It's been so long since season 1 I forgot who Cinta was. I honestly suspected that Tay left early because he had already informed on her, and had inside information that a raid was going to be executed during the reception.
That whole scene is just establishing who is in charge of him now.
We did get an awkward moment explaining Dedra's backstory: both parents killed, and raised in a state orphanage. With that, she now has a revenge backstory optioned. She's even convincing them to help her arm a rebellion, which could help her exact any such revenge.
-A Chandrilan rave
While discobot was cool, I think the DJs in the thread will be more interested in Kleya's two turntable listening post.
posted by pwnguin at 9:59 AM on April 23 [3 favorites]
Yeah, my sense is that Syril has exchanged one overbearing woman in his life for another - but how delightful to see the domestic life of the Karn-Meera household for a moment.
Lots of "household" stuff in these episodes, it feels like. The Mothma house, with the wedding and all the tensions present, culminating in a need to remove Tay...the bumbling rebel quasi-family group with a Rock-Paper-Scissors showdown to determine who is in charge...And the Cassian-Brasso-Bix-forget his name household, never safe, always fragile, coming to an end.
. for Brasso. Wasn't that long ago he was beaning Imperials with Maarva's funeral brick.
The final shot - of Cassian looking back over his shoulder at Bix as they fly away - echoes the end of the first set of three episodes, with child-Cassian being flown away by Maarva from Kenari, and outlaw-Cassian being flown away from Ferix by Luthen. But now Cassian is in the pilot's seat.
Really glad they released all three together; as a whole, they say more than any single episode.
posted by nubs at 10:08 AM on April 23 [17 favorites]
Lots of "household" stuff in these episodes, it feels like. The Mothma house, with the wedding and all the tensions present, culminating in a need to remove Tay...the bumbling rebel quasi-family group with a Rock-Paper-Scissors showdown to determine who is in charge...And the Cassian-Brasso-Bix-forget his name household, never safe, always fragile, coming to an end.
. for Brasso. Wasn't that long ago he was beaning Imperials with Maarva's funeral brick.
The final shot - of Cassian looking back over his shoulder at Bix as they fly away - echoes the end of the first set of three episodes, with child-Cassian being flown away by Maarva from Kenari, and outlaw-Cassian being flown away from Ferix by Luthen. But now Cassian is in the pilot's seat.
Really glad they released all three together; as a whole, they say more than any single episode.
posted by nubs at 10:08 AM on April 23 [17 favorites]
With that, she now has a revenge backstory optioned. She's even convincing them to help her arm a rebellion, which could help her exact any such revenge.
I took her plan as more the creation of a covert “rebel cell” that would be under her direction to conduct false flag operations and create incidents at just the right moments to justify Imperial crackdowns.
Of course, there are all kinds of ways for that to go wrong - like actual Rebels infiltrating it, or it going rogue, or just the chaos that might ensue if it gets caught in the middle of an actual Rebel operation.
posted by nubs at 11:18 AM on April 23 [3 favorites]
I took her plan as more the creation of a covert “rebel cell” that would be under her direction to conduct false flag operations and create incidents at just the right moments to justify Imperial crackdowns.
Of course, there are all kinds of ways for that to go wrong - like actual Rebels infiltrating it, or it going rogue, or just the chaos that might ensue if it gets caught in the middle of an actual Rebel operation.
posted by nubs at 11:18 AM on April 23 [3 favorites]
I can’t believe they fucked my boy Brasso over like that. I didn’t like that. Not one bit. I even got angry for a split second, before I got sad. I will say, the writing team managed to wrong foot me there, I thought that Wilmon would be the one to die senselessly, possibly right in front of his girlfriend. Goddammit, you got me there, Gilroy.
At least I can dance my sorrows away and yell Niamos! to a banging techno tune. After I’ve played my role in a very creepy ceremony, of course. I’ll say this, I did get a little bit of a sense for why Leida doesn’t care for her mother. Mon is projecting her own traumas on her kid, possibly creating new ones in the process. I don’t have much good to say about Perrin normally, but at least he knows how to perform his role.
The one misstep in this episode was the attempted rape. During it I had the fairly unkind thought that there were probably no women in the writers’ room. At least she got to beat that guy to death with a hammer and shoot the other one, but the whole thing felt like a scene from a 70s exploitation film. Don’t get me wrong, it was well executed as a scene, but it felt like it was from a different show entirely (which the goofball rock-paper-scissors scene avoided).
That bum note aside, I loved being back in this version of Star Wars. This set of episodes tossed a lot of balls into the air, so I assume rewatching it will feel very different. Even with that caveat, this was great fucking television.
posted by Kattullus at 11:18 AM on April 23 [6 favorites]
At least I can dance my sorrows away and yell Niamos! to a banging techno tune. After I’ve played my role in a very creepy ceremony, of course. I’ll say this, I did get a little bit of a sense for why Leida doesn’t care for her mother. Mon is projecting her own traumas on her kid, possibly creating new ones in the process. I don’t have much good to say about Perrin normally, but at least he knows how to perform his role.
The one misstep in this episode was the attempted rape. During it I had the fairly unkind thought that there were probably no women in the writers’ room. At least she got to beat that guy to death with a hammer and shoot the other one, but the whole thing felt like a scene from a 70s exploitation film. Don’t get me wrong, it was well executed as a scene, but it felt like it was from a different show entirely (which the goofball rock-paper-scissors scene avoided).
That bum note aside, I loved being back in this version of Star Wars. This set of episodes tossed a lot of balls into the air, so I assume rewatching it will feel very different. Even with that caveat, this was great fucking television.
posted by Kattullus at 11:18 AM on April 23 [6 favorites]
Maybe it's nothing but what was Cassian yelling at Kleya about the ship not being what he trained for? Were they expecting something else? That could be an interesting thread to pull.
posted by orrnyereg at 11:29 AM on April 23 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 11:29 AM on April 23 [1 favorite]
You could be right orrnyereg, I took it more as another example of how uncoordinated the rebels are right now - intel is wrong, and missions are going sideways because they are stepping on each other.
posted by nubs at 11:34 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
posted by nubs at 11:34 AM on April 23 [7 favorites]
Dedra standing up for Syril after the forced smiles failed was amazing.
Mon dancing against the flow to a Niamos hardcore remix after downing several shots was amazing.
Drowning the troopers in their precious grain was fantastic.
The imagery and symbolism woven into these, the chaotic dynamics at play. There's just so much depth here!
posted by Molesome at 1:21 PM on April 23 [6 favorites]
Mon dancing against the flow to a Niamos hardcore remix after downing several shots was amazing.
Drowning the troopers in their precious grain was fantastic.
The imagery and symbolism woven into these, the chaotic dynamics at play. There's just so much depth here!
posted by Molesome at 1:21 PM on April 23 [6 favorites]
We see Perrin's finest moment: he can deliver a hell of a wedding toast.
Mon's agony and envy watching him is laid on thick and it sets up her dance scene so well.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:24 PM on April 23 [4 favorites]
Mon's agony and envy watching him is laid on thick and it sets up her dance scene so well.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:24 PM on April 23 [4 favorites]
You figure with Mon being a senator, she's got to be 100% the main character of her story. With her being a senator-revolutionary, she's got to be 1000% the main character of her story. Perrin and Leida are gonna be passengers. Might not be the best mom.
"I wish you were drunk." Gotta get out the scraper, my TV suddenly has frost around the edges.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:32 PM on April 23 [9 favorites]
"I wish you were drunk." Gotta get out the scraper, my TV suddenly has frost around the edges.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:32 PM on April 23 [9 favorites]
In my re-watch of season 1, Vel and Cinta's relationship really stood out. It didn't register the first time through, but now I think it's so interesting. Vel thinks Cinta is her girlfriend and Cinta thinks Cinta is a machine for doing terrorism.
"Haven't we been apart long enough?" Vel says, when Cinta plans to stay on Ferrix surveiling Marva. After some frosty arguing, Cinta gets the last word: "The struggle will always come first. We take what's left," Cinta says. "I'm a mirror, Vel. You love me because I show you what you need to see," she says.
In the next episode, Vel recites the same speech to Mon Mothma! Vel visits Mon on Coruscant and Mon says, "We never get to see you." Vel says, "The empire doesn't rest, Mon. The rebellion comes first. We take what's left." And then Vel breaks protocol repeatedly to ask Kleya or Luthien where Cinta is and what Cinta's doing.
This continues into this season, culminating in the scene of Vel seeing that Cinta is driving Tay's speeder, signaling to the audience that it's a series wrap for Ben Miles, but what does it signal to Vel and Cinta?
I don't really know where it's going but I think it's so interesting.
posted by chrchr at 2:52 PM on April 23 [9 favorites]
"Haven't we been apart long enough?" Vel says, when Cinta plans to stay on Ferrix surveiling Marva. After some frosty arguing, Cinta gets the last word: "The struggle will always come first. We take what's left," Cinta says. "I'm a mirror, Vel. You love me because I show you what you need to see," she says.
In the next episode, Vel recites the same speech to Mon Mothma! Vel visits Mon on Coruscant and Mon says, "We never get to see you." Vel says, "The empire doesn't rest, Mon. The rebellion comes first. We take what's left." And then Vel breaks protocol repeatedly to ask Kleya or Luthien where Cinta is and what Cinta's doing.
This continues into this season, culminating in the scene of Vel seeing that Cinta is driving Tay's speeder, signaling to the audience that it's a series wrap for Ben Miles, but what does it signal to Vel and Cinta?
I don't really know where it's going but I think it's so interesting.
posted by chrchr at 2:52 PM on April 23 [9 favorites]
It's interesting / neat how Cinta became audience shorthand for "death awaits" on the basis of her moral clarity plus Skeen's testimony about her being the hardest of the Alandi crew, plus her maybe-killing of some hostages during the heist. Such efficient writing.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:57 PM on April 23 [10 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:57 PM on April 23 [10 favorites]
Cinta 100% killed the hostages. Vel really is a weak link; a revolution isn’t a tea party but she’s still hoping for happy domesticity with Cinta. Which makes me wonder whether Vel will have to be dealt with like Tay at some point.
posted by orrnyereg at 3:58 PM on April 23 [4 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 3:58 PM on April 23 [4 favorites]
> The one misstep in this episode was the attempted rape
Yeah, I was already bummed when they had him harassing her -- and then this very long scene? Unnecessary and unpleasant, and took me out of the moment.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:25 PM on April 23 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I was already bummed when they had him harassing her -- and then this very long scene? Unnecessary and unpleasant, and took me out of the moment.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:25 PM on April 23 [3 favorites]
What a marvel this series is, and how lucky we are to have it.
I watched the first episode last night, thinking I'd stop there, and of course ploughed through the other two in one sitting. How fantastic that each block of three will be a self-contained arc: it's like getting a series of new movies all at once.
As a show about everyday fascism and its all-too-familiar power dynamics, the perils of unorganised resistance, and the threat from collaborators, it's the sort of thing you'd expect in a World War II drama rather than Star Wars: it takes the essence of moments like Lando's capitulation to Vader in Empire and puts them front and centre. To have that in April 2025 feels so urgent.
And there were so many good parts! The opening scenes of the first episode, the welcome return of Ben Mendelsohn as Krennic, Cassian strafing the fields in the finale of episode three, the banging techno at the wedding... and the little moments—the awkward dinner with mother, the father's wedding speech. Such great writing throughout, with such real dialogue. If only Gilroy had been script editor on all of it (the prequels, oh god, the prequels) throughout the last fifty years.
Some are commenting here on the rape scene being a moment of adult drama too far, and it was certainly striking to see one in a Star War, which normally brushes such themes under the carpet. I saw it, though, as an attempted rape scene, and there's a difference. The target hits the perpetrator over the head with a hammer, twice, and fends him off. And then she calls it what it was. She isn't a victim; there's no room given for would-be rapists to get their kicks out of what's on screen. And by including his attempted attack and her successful defence, nobody can dismiss the earlier signs of what lay in store as him just being a creep. Sexual dominance is part of the fascist mindset. I can appreciate, though, why the scene won't be to everyone's taste.
I've loved Star Wars since I saw the original in cinemas at the age of ten, and have dutifully watched most of its incarnations (the live-action ones, at least), with mixed feelings about the obvious weaker points: the prequels, The Rise of Skywalker, season three of Mando, some of the other Disney offerings (I haven't tried Skeleton Crew yet). But Andor season one was clearly worlds apart, and so, it seems clear already, is this season. I'm left feeling that at the end of it all, my own canonical Star Wars—my Machete Order—will be Andor seasons one and two, Rogue One, and (the original 1977) Star Wars. And that's even though I prefer Empire to Episode IV and The Last Jedi to Rogue One. As an overall story across multiple properties, this is the one I'm here for.
posted by rory at 3:43 AM on April 24 [16 favorites]
I watched the first episode last night, thinking I'd stop there, and of course ploughed through the other two in one sitting. How fantastic that each block of three will be a self-contained arc: it's like getting a series of new movies all at once.
As a show about everyday fascism and its all-too-familiar power dynamics, the perils of unorganised resistance, and the threat from collaborators, it's the sort of thing you'd expect in a World War II drama rather than Star Wars: it takes the essence of moments like Lando's capitulation to Vader in Empire and puts them front and centre. To have that in April 2025 feels so urgent.
And there were so many good parts! The opening scenes of the first episode, the welcome return of Ben Mendelsohn as Krennic, Cassian strafing the fields in the finale of episode three, the banging techno at the wedding... and the little moments—the awkward dinner with mother, the father's wedding speech. Such great writing throughout, with such real dialogue. If only Gilroy had been script editor on all of it (the prequels, oh god, the prequels) throughout the last fifty years.
Some are commenting here on the rape scene being a moment of adult drama too far, and it was certainly striking to see one in a Star War, which normally brushes such themes under the carpet. I saw it, though, as an attempted rape scene, and there's a difference. The target hits the perpetrator over the head with a hammer, twice, and fends him off. And then she calls it what it was. She isn't a victim; there's no room given for would-be rapists to get their kicks out of what's on screen. And by including his attempted attack and her successful defence, nobody can dismiss the earlier signs of what lay in store as him just being a creep. Sexual dominance is part of the fascist mindset. I can appreciate, though, why the scene won't be to everyone's taste.
I've loved Star Wars since I saw the original in cinemas at the age of ten, and have dutifully watched most of its incarnations (the live-action ones, at least), with mixed feelings about the obvious weaker points: the prequels, The Rise of Skywalker, season three of Mando, some of the other Disney offerings (I haven't tried Skeleton Crew yet). But Andor season one was clearly worlds apart, and so, it seems clear already, is this season. I'm left feeling that at the end of it all, my own canonical Star Wars—my Machete Order—will be Andor seasons one and two, Rogue One, and (the original 1977) Star Wars. And that's even though I prefer Empire to Episode IV and The Last Jedi to Rogue One. As an overall story across multiple properties, this is the one I'm here for.
posted by rory at 3:43 AM on April 24 [16 favorites]
Dedra's an orphan you say? An orphan like Cassian's sister the orphan that he was looking for as his motivation for the first half of season 1 you say? You don't say!
Bit on the nose though.
posted by biffa at 11:18 AM on April 24 [8 favorites]
Bit on the nose though.
posted by biffa at 11:18 AM on April 24 [8 favorites]
> > The one misstep in this episode was the attempted rape
This is obviously a sensitive topic, and I absolutely respect anyone's personal response to a scene of sexual assault. But in my opinion, it's important to have it there.
One of the things about fascism in particular, and hierarchical power structures in general, is that everyone who is part of the system convinces themselves that they're "just following orders". And if that was all we saw - detaining illegal workers, sweeping up people to put them in prison camps, killing potential "agitators" - it would be easier to defend.
Fascism, at its core, is "the strong take from the weak". That ethos trickles down. People in an abusive system of power abuse anyone they see as beneath them. They steal, beat, and rape.
It's not the big blowing up of planets or giant space battles, which remain distant to us. The effects of fascism are intimate, personal. It's much harder to defend. Which is why some right-wing Star Wars fans are claiming that the Empire would never condone such things.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 4:57 PM on April 24 [22 favorites]
This is obviously a sensitive topic, and I absolutely respect anyone's personal response to a scene of sexual assault. But in my opinion, it's important to have it there.
One of the things about fascism in particular, and hierarchical power structures in general, is that everyone who is part of the system convinces themselves that they're "just following orders". And if that was all we saw - detaining illegal workers, sweeping up people to put them in prison camps, killing potential "agitators" - it would be easier to defend.
Fascism, at its core, is "the strong take from the weak". That ethos trickles down. People in an abusive system of power abuse anyone they see as beneath them. They steal, beat, and rape.
It's not the big blowing up of planets or giant space battles, which remain distant to us. The effects of fascism are intimate, personal. It's much harder to defend. Which is why some right-wing Star Wars fans are claiming that the Empire would never condone such things.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 4:57 PM on April 24 [22 favorites]
OK but at this point the show is verging into "Bix must suffer" territory, to confuse my franchises. And the same argument was used to justify the million and one rapes in Game of Thrones. I'm a woman walking around every day, I know sexual assault exists, can't I just relax and enjoy my pew-pew-pew in space TV show without a drawn out attempted rape scene? We're imagining a galaxy with sentient robots; can't we imagine a galaxy where the attractive female character doesn't need to be put in this scenario?
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:48 PM on April 24 [10 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:48 PM on April 24 [10 favorites]
Tony Gilroy was interviewed about the dinner scene, and it gives a fairly good idea about the creative process behind the show. Here’s an excerpt:
posted by Kattullus at 12:17 AM on April 25 [11 favorites]
Ah yes, the dinner. Episode 3 of season 2 featured a super awkward dinner scene from hell as Syril’s mom Eedy (played by Kathryn Hunter) came over to break bread (and balls) — belittling her son at every opportunity. It got so bad that Syril could no longer take it and excused himself from the room, leading his girlfriend to negotiate terms with Eedy: “This game ends now. You want Syril in your life, you will think before you speak. I’ll make sure he visits twice a month. I’ll make sure that he calls you. I will guarantee a level of engagement, but it will be inversely proportional to the volume of anxiety you generate in our lives.”I’m glad Gilroy is the sort of showrunner that trusts his crew.
After this decisive verbal beatdown was delivered, we saw a shot of Syril laying down despondent and defeated in his bed before returning to the dining table. It was a hilarious punctuation mark, but one which Gilroy originally resisted. “I remember watching the dailies come in on that,” he tells Entertainment Weekly. “I hated him lying on the bed. I was like, ‘Oh man, what are you doing?’”
But Gilroy decided to trust his director, Ariel Kleiman. “Ariel was really adamant about it, and I was on the fence about it,” Gilroy reveals. “I thought, ‘Oh, it's too much, it's too much, it's too much.' But we went to cut it and the things he added — like the adjustment of the fork on the table — he made this really just incredible confection there. That's really all him, that's all his blocking.”
posted by Kattullus at 12:17 AM on April 25 [11 favorites]
I thought the floating disco ball was about to bash out a cover of Coolios 'Gangstas Paradise' for a moment there.
posted by phigmov at 2:24 AM on April 25 [4 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 2:24 AM on April 25 [4 favorites]
Oh, I’m really looking forward to memes of that disco ball blasting out other bangers for Mon to dance along to.
posted by Kattullus at 4:17 AM on April 25 [4 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 4:17 AM on April 25 [4 favorites]
Well, those were fun. I have to say, my concerns about the show running away from its seriousness were largely unfounded.
I thought the one weak spot was Cassian showing up in the stolen TIE fighter to neatly kill the Imperial audit crew. I saw it coming a mile away, and in general I thought it was very lazy writing. Plus, why does the TIE fighter have ground attack capabilities? Have Star Wars craft like that ever been shown to have rockets before? It has a heads up display that marks Imperial forces as targets? But hey, it is a seriously cool looking variant of the TIE fighter platform, and it advanced the story, so I'll chill.
The two dinners on the other hand, were superb. I continue to be very happy that we get shown Cyril and Dedra as real people with depth. What a fun twist that they are a couple now.
The wedding, I loved. In particular Luthen's disruptive presence. His exchange with Mon, "You KNOW the number!" "I have no idea what you're talking about." "How nice for you." was devastating, and is another example of how this version of the Star Wars world, going all the way back to the beginning of Rogue One, takes commitment to a revolutionary movement seriously, and shows that when you commit to being a partisan, you give up the luxury of thinking of yourself as a good guy. This moral sacrifice is very real, and Mon Mothma is a superbly written character repeatedly forced to face the impacts of this choice. Bravo.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:28 AM on April 25 [12 favorites]
I thought the one weak spot was Cassian showing up in the stolen TIE fighter to neatly kill the Imperial audit crew. I saw it coming a mile away, and in general I thought it was very lazy writing. Plus, why does the TIE fighter have ground attack capabilities? Have Star Wars craft like that ever been shown to have rockets before? It has a heads up display that marks Imperial forces as targets? But hey, it is a seriously cool looking variant of the TIE fighter platform, and it advanced the story, so I'll chill.
The two dinners on the other hand, were superb. I continue to be very happy that we get shown Cyril and Dedra as real people with depth. What a fun twist that they are a couple now.
The wedding, I loved. In particular Luthen's disruptive presence. His exchange with Mon, "You KNOW the number!" "I have no idea what you're talking about." "How nice for you." was devastating, and is another example of how this version of the Star Wars world, going all the way back to the beginning of Rogue One, takes commitment to a revolutionary movement seriously, and shows that when you commit to being a partisan, you give up the luxury of thinking of yourself as a good guy. This moral sacrifice is very real, and Mon Mothma is a superbly written character repeatedly forced to face the impacts of this choice. Bravo.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:28 AM on April 25 [12 favorites]
There’s a really good interview with Genevieve O’Reilly in Variety. Honestly, I could post the whole thing, but here’s an excerpt about the dance scene:
posted by Kattullus at 5:26 AM on April 25 [15 favorites]
What’s going through Mon’s head while she’s wildly dancing?I appreciate how O’Reilly, instead of engaging with the not very interesting question of what song was actually playing on set, chooses to answer her own, much better question.
She’s wrestling with the demons within her at that moment. She’s using the facade of this cultural celebration to release her body, in a way, to stop herself from screaming in pain. The only two people who really know what’s going on are the audience and Mon Mothma. To everyone else, to that lens, she’s just gotten a bit messy at a wedding. But we understand she’s wrestling with the chaos that’s inside her own head.
What music was playing during the dance scene? Was it the same song that we hear in the episode?
That was in Season 1 as well. That piece of music I think was in the brothel scene in Season 1 and also in one of Mon Mothma’s party scenes. This is like the mega-hit mix that we have. It feels like it’s part of the cultural fabric that galaxy at that time. She’s able to really release herself within that. You can feel that clash of old and new within those scenes with that speech Skuldun gives with that really gauche piece that he is giving as this performative gift. You can feel her writhing inside against this gauche-ness. That crescendo of that dance piece really allows for us to witness what she’s releasing in this episode. To dance as Mon Mothma, and wrestle her out of the structure of that calm aesthetic was such a gift.
posted by Kattullus at 5:26 AM on April 25 [15 favorites]
Plus, why does the TIE fighter have ground attack capabilities?
One can argue that the primary mission of the TIE fighter was to terrorize civilians on the ground, rather than attacking a peer adversary, since the Empire didn’t have any peer adversaries for most of its existence.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:29 AM on April 25 [3 favorites]
One can argue that the primary mission of the TIE fighter was to terrorize civilians on the ground, rather than attacking a peer adversary, since the Empire didn’t have any peer adversaries for most of its existence.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:29 AM on April 25 [3 favorites]
I finally made it, on the third day, as the good book of the whills shared. But of course, technical question to distract me:
Plus, why does the TIE fighter have ground attack capabilities?
This is the TIE Avenger prototype, so it's designed with a multitude of capabilities you won't find on a regular TIE Fighter, such as shields, a hyperspace engine, and more advanced armaments. The targeting display, how it works, reminds me of some of the targeting displays in the simulation games, but notably, if I remember in TIE craft, usually the heads up display is actually built into the helmet. BUT, we can't see Diego Luna through a helmet unless we pull a Tony Stark shot, so it's on the screen in front of him. In Rogue One, they developed the TIE Striker because they wanted a TIE that was more aerodynamic fulfilling than the usual TIE Fighter (we have seen TIEs in atmospheres since Empire Strikes Back, though).
I appreciated in the end, if not at the time, being forced to watch these episodes one at a time, one night at a time. It gave me an opportunity to take each one in fully before moving onto the next. A lot has already been said and I don't need to repeat it. Highlights for me was Luthen's "How nice for you," which underlined Mon's continual education of what comes with rebellion. This first arc represented the sealing of her willingness to allow her daughter to marry the son of a crime boss in exchange for funds, and now her actions have resulted in a "dear old friend" being driven to a remote location and murdered by Cinta. It's not going to get any better. In a way, Luthen is forcing her to become the leader who sacrifices everything for the cause, even if perhaps, she doesn't actually realize that at the moment.
I was not happy about Brasso. In part, I was confused. Was there a blaster mark on him? I can't even remember, and at first, I kept thinking he was just unconscious. I think part of this represented Cassian understanding he cannot protect everyone.
I'm mixed on the sexual assault. If it had been successful, then it would have been outright trash. As The corpse in the library mentioned, "Bix must suffer," went through my head. She was tortured almost to the point of a vegetative state last season and now she's being thrown against a bulkhead and dragged toward bed rolls. NOT COOL. She does kill the guy, and she does call out his actions for what they were, underlining what happened rather simply leaving it to the viewer to understand like GoT did time after time. If Bix keeps being the subject of violence after this point, Gilroy has problems.
I kept getting dust in my eye every time the portrait of Maarva would past by in the background inside their ship type thing.
The fact that B2 was left behind and the lack of blood on Basso creates a really weird sense, illogically so, that we'll learn Basso is alive actually near the end of the season.
I want to hate Perrin as someone who'd rather luxuriate in endless gilded days of wine and folly, but he's noticed Mon's despondent dancing there at the end. I think he's going to be a surprise character as we go forward. As for Mon's daughter, I have feelings she's going to continue to value "conservative" things, including what the Empire claims it is protecting. A big shout out to the choreographer for the ritual wedding dance who put in a ridiculous bunny hop sequence in the middle of solemn, graceful movements.
Lastly, I think with Andor and Skeleton Crew, two of the most recent Star Wars shows released, we're seeing how the original trilogy can be split asunder in terms of tone and audience.
posted by Atreides at 7:13 AM on April 25 [6 favorites]
Plus, why does the TIE fighter have ground attack capabilities?
This is the TIE Avenger prototype, so it's designed with a multitude of capabilities you won't find on a regular TIE Fighter, such as shields, a hyperspace engine, and more advanced armaments. The targeting display, how it works, reminds me of some of the targeting displays in the simulation games, but notably, if I remember in TIE craft, usually the heads up display is actually built into the helmet. BUT, we can't see Diego Luna through a helmet unless we pull a Tony Stark shot, so it's on the screen in front of him. In Rogue One, they developed the TIE Striker because they wanted a TIE that was more aerodynamic fulfilling than the usual TIE Fighter (we have seen TIEs in atmospheres since Empire Strikes Back, though).
I appreciated in the end, if not at the time, being forced to watch these episodes one at a time, one night at a time. It gave me an opportunity to take each one in fully before moving onto the next. A lot has already been said and I don't need to repeat it. Highlights for me was Luthen's "How nice for you," which underlined Mon's continual education of what comes with rebellion. This first arc represented the sealing of her willingness to allow her daughter to marry the son of a crime boss in exchange for funds, and now her actions have resulted in a "dear old friend" being driven to a remote location and murdered by Cinta. It's not going to get any better. In a way, Luthen is forcing her to become the leader who sacrifices everything for the cause, even if perhaps, she doesn't actually realize that at the moment.
I was not happy about Brasso. In part, I was confused. Was there a blaster mark on him? I can't even remember, and at first, I kept thinking he was just unconscious. I think part of this represented Cassian understanding he cannot protect everyone.
I'm mixed on the sexual assault. If it had been successful, then it would have been outright trash. As The corpse in the library mentioned, "Bix must suffer," went through my head. She was tortured almost to the point of a vegetative state last season and now she's being thrown against a bulkhead and dragged toward bed rolls. NOT COOL. She does kill the guy, and she does call out his actions for what they were, underlining what happened rather simply leaving it to the viewer to understand like GoT did time after time. If Bix keeps being the subject of violence after this point, Gilroy has problems.
I kept getting dust in my eye every time the portrait of Maarva would past by in the background inside their ship type thing.
The fact that B2 was left behind and the lack of blood on Basso creates a really weird sense, illogically so, that we'll learn Basso is alive actually near the end of the season.
I want to hate Perrin as someone who'd rather luxuriate in endless gilded days of wine and folly, but he's noticed Mon's despondent dancing there at the end. I think he's going to be a surprise character as we go forward. As for Mon's daughter, I have feelings she's going to continue to value "conservative" things, including what the Empire claims it is protecting. A big shout out to the choreographer for the ritual wedding dance who put in a ridiculous bunny hop sequence in the middle of solemn, graceful movements.
Lastly, I think with Andor and Skeleton Crew, two of the most recent Star Wars shows released, we're seeing how the original trilogy can be split asunder in terms of tone and audience.
posted by Atreides at 7:13 AM on April 25 [6 favorites]
Oh hell, forgot to address this:
orrnyereg: "Maybe it's nothing but what was Cassian yelling at Kleya about the ship not being what he trained for? Were they expecting something else?"
When Cassian arrived on what we now know is Yavin IV, he discovered the "rebels" had killed the pilot trained to fly the TIE Avenger prior to his arrival due to paranoia/suspicions. I'm fairly certain that's what he was referring to.
posted by Atreides at 7:16 AM on April 25 [1 favorite]
orrnyereg: "Maybe it's nothing but what was Cassian yelling at Kleya about the ship not being what he trained for? Were they expecting something else?"
When Cassian arrived on what we now know is Yavin IV, he discovered the "rebels" had killed the pilot trained to fly the TIE Avenger prior to his arrival due to paranoia/suspicions. I'm fairly certain that's what he was referring to.
posted by Atreides at 7:16 AM on April 25 [1 favorite]
A lot of Renaissance dances on into the regency included hopping or skipping steps - the choreographer was definitely drawing on historical dance for it, and it looked really good!
posted by PussKillian at 8:38 AM on April 25 [5 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 8:38 AM on April 25 [5 favorites]
Atreides: When Cassian arrived on what we now know is Yavin IV, he discovered the "rebels" had killed the pilot trained to fly the TIE Avenger prior to his arrival due to paranoia/suspicions.
With the caveat that I’d personally back Atreides to be more correct than I am in all things Star Wars, I think it’s clear from how flummoxed Cassian is by the controls in the beginning, that he was expecting to fly a different starfighter.
This has no bearing on this particular issue, but I just watched the Andor Declassified featurette, and it’s very nice, if only for the behind the scenes footage, but not only because of that.
posted by Kattullus at 9:42 AM on April 25 [2 favorites]
With the caveat that I’d personally back Atreides to be more correct than I am in all things Star Wars, I think it’s clear from how flummoxed Cassian is by the controls in the beginning, that he was expecting to fly a different starfighter.
This has no bearing on this particular issue, but I just watched the Andor Declassified featurette, and it’s very nice, if only for the behind the scenes footage, but not only because of that.
posted by Kattullus at 9:42 AM on April 25 [2 favorites]
With the caveat that I’d personally back Atreides to be more correct than I am in all things Star Wars, I think it’s clear from how flummoxed Cassian is by the controls in the beginning, that he was expecting to fly a different starfighter.
Oh no, this is also a good, nay better, answer extending beyond the planned pilot's demise. Er, the demise of the pilot planned to take it from Yavin IV to wherever.
posted by Atreides at 10:51 AM on April 25 [1 favorite]
Oh no, this is also a good, nay better, answer extending beyond the planned pilot's demise. Er, the demise of the pilot planned to take it from Yavin IV to wherever.
posted by Atreides at 10:51 AM on April 25 [1 favorite]
Yeah, my sense is that Syril has exchanged one overbearing woman in his life for another
Syril in no way deserves Dedra, but she was at a low point. What a goddamn scene, amazing. I felt the need to vomit, letting the show make me cheer for her victory over Syril's mother.
If she sends Syril into the fire of her false flag operation it would be more than he deserves, but also a decent Imp counterpoint to the "romance is for children" theme we've got going
posted by eustatic at 10:53 AM on April 25 [2 favorites]
Syril in no way deserves Dedra, but she was at a low point. What a goddamn scene, amazing. I felt the need to vomit, letting the show make me cheer for her victory over Syril's mother.
If she sends Syril into the fire of her false flag operation it would be more than he deserves, but also a decent Imp counterpoint to the "romance is for children" theme we've got going
posted by eustatic at 10:53 AM on April 25 [2 favorites]
how flummoxed Cassian is by the controls in the beginning, that he was expecting to fly a different starfighter.
I took the fact that both Rebel pilots fire the green laser cannon by accident as some kind of common interface mismatch
Niamos season 2
Niamos season 1
Niamos lo fi
posted by eustatic at 11:07 AM on April 25 [3 favorites]
I took the fact that both Rebel pilots fire the green laser cannon by accident as some kind of common interface mismatch
Niamos season 2
Niamos season 1
Niamos lo fi
posted by eustatic at 11:07 AM on April 25 [3 favorites]
Re-watching the opening three episodes, and some nice touches become clear:
-Lots of of circles: When talking with his contact at the Imperial testing facility in the opening scene, Cassian says how great it is "to be here, when you step into the circle"; Krennic describes the group he gathers as the "tightest of closed circles"; in the third episode the group plans to "circle back" to the district after the inspection; "join my circle" says the groom to the bride, in a ceremonial moment that has drum beats that feel more menacing than anything. And, of course, circular dancing. Dedra and Karn have a circular table with circular plates. Not sure what it all means, and I probably missed some.
-Mon completely overlooks Tay's entrance in the first episode; she's looking away, towards Luthen, when he comes out of the background to get her attention.
-Kleya to Vel, at the wedding: "just two single women surveying the prospects". Vel looks her up and down and moves off.
-the facial expressions of Mon and her daughter as she says "Wait. You are to stand behind me." Amazing.
Syril in no way deserves Dedra, but she was at a low point
The facial expressions between all of them in that scene are amazing, and it's wonderful and awkward and they are a collection of horrible people who all deserve each other. Every time I feel slightly like rooting for Dedra, I just remember what she did to Bix.
I was not happy about Brasso. In part, I was confused. Was there a blaster mark on him? I can't even remember, and at first, I kept thinking he was just unconscious.
No blaster mark; all we get is an incredibly long shot that tightens on a stormtrooper drawing aim on him as he flees into the fields...then Cassian in the TIE fighter.
I want to hate Perrin as someone who'd rather luxuriate in endless gilded days of wine and folly, but he's noticed Mon's despondent dancing there at the end. I think he's going to be a surprise character as we go forward.
Perrin is very much in his element in these episodes: genial host, socialite, good with a speech, knows the right things to say at the right moment. He's emotionally intelligent and observant, and I think he'll figure out what Mon is up to in the near future. What he does about it...I don't know.
posted by nubs at 12:22 PM on April 25 [10 favorites]
-Lots of of circles: When talking with his contact at the Imperial testing facility in the opening scene, Cassian says how great it is "to be here, when you step into the circle"; Krennic describes the group he gathers as the "tightest of closed circles"; in the third episode the group plans to "circle back" to the district after the inspection; "join my circle" says the groom to the bride, in a ceremonial moment that has drum beats that feel more menacing than anything. And, of course, circular dancing. Dedra and Karn have a circular table with circular plates. Not sure what it all means, and I probably missed some.
-Mon completely overlooks Tay's entrance in the first episode; she's looking away, towards Luthen, when he comes out of the background to get her attention.
-Kleya to Vel, at the wedding: "just two single women surveying the prospects". Vel looks her up and down and moves off.
-the facial expressions of Mon and her daughter as she says "Wait. You are to stand behind me." Amazing.
Syril in no way deserves Dedra, but she was at a low point
The facial expressions between all of them in that scene are amazing, and it's wonderful and awkward and they are a collection of horrible people who all deserve each other. Every time I feel slightly like rooting for Dedra, I just remember what she did to Bix.
I was not happy about Brasso. In part, I was confused. Was there a blaster mark on him? I can't even remember, and at first, I kept thinking he was just unconscious.
No blaster mark; all we get is an incredibly long shot that tightens on a stormtrooper drawing aim on him as he flees into the fields...then Cassian in the TIE fighter.
I want to hate Perrin as someone who'd rather luxuriate in endless gilded days of wine and folly, but he's noticed Mon's despondent dancing there at the end. I think he's going to be a surprise character as we go forward.
Perrin is very much in his element in these episodes: genial host, socialite, good with a speech, knows the right things to say at the right moment. He's emotionally intelligent and observant, and I think he'll figure out what Mon is up to in the near future. What he does about it...I don't know.
posted by nubs at 12:22 PM on April 25 [10 favorites]
I wanted the Gangsta Paradise dance to be even more contrasty, more ironic-garbagey, like when rich kids of unimaginable wealth dance the Macarena, or otherwise slum it before they grow up to write opinion pieces about how one never heard about droid rights when they were young. There should have been a wall of holograms or something. I wanted a starker tonal clash. Do more, party droid.
One reason I wanted/expected this is because of how Andor S2 has the same ADHD editing that S1 did. It cuts back and forth between storylines so often to show like, 6 seconds of nothin'. It's very jarring and annoying to me. "Yeah yeah that's still going on you didn't need to show me that again." I feel like they cut back to Mon Mothma dancing about four hundred times. If they're going to do that I want more escalation, make it worth the discontinuity. Most times it isn't. Sometimes it is; I'm just saying it's overused.
-Mon completely overlooks Tay's entrance in the first episode; she's looking away, towards Luthen, when he comes out of the background to get her attention.
Oh I read that as cold shouldering, mostly because Luthen is there and she doesn't want them all seen together. When she talks to Tay, every single line she says is "fuck off" and all of his lines are "Oh so go fuck off shall I?" I think it's a little oversalted, but anyway a very bad play by her to misjudge the depth of their relationship. She should have been keeping him happy, not laying vicious slights across his face.
Yeah it was also interesting to see the tables turned; Perrin in his element and Mon feeling pointless returning to the conservative hometown. There's a reverse Hallmark movie in here somewhere, she just needs to meet the old flame who's now a high-status professional back on Coruscant.
The shot of Perrin noticing her dancing was interesting too. He noticed she was acting out of character, ie having fun. I think it could mean a few things, but it's ominous enough to indicate that Perrin is noticing things now.
posted by fleacircus at 1:44 PM on April 25 [3 favorites]
One reason I wanted/expected this is because of how Andor S2 has the same ADHD editing that S1 did. It cuts back and forth between storylines so often to show like, 6 seconds of nothin'. It's very jarring and annoying to me. "Yeah yeah that's still going on you didn't need to show me that again." I feel like they cut back to Mon Mothma dancing about four hundred times. If they're going to do that I want more escalation, make it worth the discontinuity. Most times it isn't. Sometimes it is; I'm just saying it's overused.
-Mon completely overlooks Tay's entrance in the first episode; she's looking away, towards Luthen, when he comes out of the background to get her attention.
Oh I read that as cold shouldering, mostly because Luthen is there and she doesn't want them all seen together. When she talks to Tay, every single line she says is "fuck off" and all of his lines are "Oh so go fuck off shall I?" I think it's a little oversalted, but anyway a very bad play by her to misjudge the depth of their relationship. She should have been keeping him happy, not laying vicious slights across his face.
Yeah it was also interesting to see the tables turned; Perrin in his element and Mon feeling pointless returning to the conservative hometown. There's a reverse Hallmark movie in here somewhere, she just needs to meet the old flame who's now a high-status professional back on Coruscant.
The shot of Perrin noticing her dancing was interesting too. He noticed she was acting out of character, ie having fun. I think it could mean a few things, but it's ominous enough to indicate that Perrin is noticing things now.
posted by fleacircus at 1:44 PM on April 25 [3 favorites]
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, they also invented the 1/4" TRRS stereo jack. (Although the rebels call it the 6.35mm)
posted by autopilot at 2:51 PM on April 25 [23 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 2:51 PM on April 25 [23 favorites]
There is a blaster mark on Brasso’s right shoulder when Cassian comes up him, for what it’s worth.
Some enterprising person needs to play Not Like Us over the dance sequence, because Drake needs to get dunked on in every galaxy.
posted by orrnyereg at 5:27 PM on April 25 [3 favorites]
Some enterprising person needs to play Not Like Us over the dance sequence, because Drake needs to get dunked on in every galaxy.
posted by orrnyereg at 5:27 PM on April 25 [3 favorites]
I'm just impressed we didn't get Wheattroopers out of this arc.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:12 PM on April 25 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:12 PM on April 25 [6 favorites]
Apparently it's rye rather than wheat, they grew it in Oxfordshire especially for the show.
posted by biffa at 8:44 PM on April 25 [6 favorites]
posted by biffa at 8:44 PM on April 25 [6 favorites]
We interrupt this serious analysis with the important news that Mon Mothma was necking Irn-Bru.
posted by rory at 11:04 PM on April 25 [7 favorites]
posted by rory at 11:04 PM on April 25 [7 favorites]
I think this show had to torture Bix last season so she could beat an imperial officer to death this season. I think her character before the torture wouldn't have believed he'd really do it. She was such a sweet person and I don't think she'd have decided to defend herself until it was too late. Her character after the torture wasn't waiting around to find out. Bix knows bone deep what imps are capable of now.
It's not my favorite arc, mind. As a small female-shaped person myself, truly, I do not love to see it. But I see why they did it.
This has just been bracingly good TV so far. I've been surprised by the amount of black, black humor they've worked in this season. I don't remember S1 being so funny.
posted by potrzebie at 12:28 AM on April 26 [9 favorites]
It's not my favorite arc, mind. As a small female-shaped person myself, truly, I do not love to see it. But I see why they did it.
This has just been bracingly good TV so far. I've been surprised by the amount of black, black humor they've worked in this season. I don't remember S1 being so funny.
posted by potrzebie at 12:28 AM on April 26 [9 favorites]
Tony Gilroy addresses the sexual assault scene in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter. He clearly had thought about it, and though I still don’t like it, I understand where he was coming from.
posted by Kattullus at 2:06 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 2:06 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
Lots of of circles: When talking with his contact at the Imperial testing facility in the opening scene, Cassian says how great it is "to be here, when you step into the circle"; Krennic describes the group he gathers as the "tightest of closed circles"; in the third episode the group plans to "circle back" to the district after the inspection; "join my circle" says the groom to the bride, in a ceremonial moment that has drum beats that feel more menacing than anything. And, of course, circular dancing. Dedra and Karn have a circular table with circular plates. Not sure what it all means, and I probably missed some.
Good catch! There's also all the large circular archways on Mon's estate.
I don't remember S1 being so funny.
I'm wondering if the idea is to more smoothly match the more quippy Star Wars of Rogue One.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:20 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
Good catch! There's also all the large circular archways on Mon's estate.
I don't remember S1 being so funny.
I'm wondering if the idea is to more smoothly match the more quippy Star Wars of Rogue One.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:20 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment removed at the writer's request.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:21 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:21 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]
From Kattullus's link:
Gilroy explained to The Hollywood Reporter that when telling a story about a war, shying away from sexual assault didn't feel truthful. "I get one shot to tell everything I know — or can discover, or that I've learned — about revolution, about battles, with as many incidents and as many colors as I can get in there."
When the series was being made at the same time as the horrors of Sudan, to follow the Star Wars line of "nothing below the belt" must have felt like a serious pulling of punches. There might never be another chance to show that its universe contained real people in all of their ugliness. Not every war crime involves Death Stars.
posted by rory at 6:10 AM on April 26 [4 favorites]
Gilroy explained to The Hollywood Reporter that when telling a story about a war, shying away from sexual assault didn't feel truthful. "I get one shot to tell everything I know — or can discover, or that I've learned — about revolution, about battles, with as many incidents and as many colors as I can get in there."
When the series was being made at the same time as the horrors of Sudan, to follow the Star Wars line of "nothing below the belt" must have felt like a serious pulling of punches. There might never be another chance to show that its universe contained real people in all of their ugliness. Not every war crime involves Death Stars.
posted by rory at 6:10 AM on April 26 [4 favorites]
I do wonder how they explained to Bix that she was growing rye instead of wheat . Seems off brand.
posted by biffa at 3:01 PM on April 26 [4 favorites]
posted by biffa at 3:01 PM on April 26 [4 favorites]
Syril's mother is clearly evil, but I don't like Syril enough to hold it against her. I agree that Mon is probably not a great mother, but her daughter is so repellent to me that Mon gets a pass. I suspect Leida resents that she's not higher on Mon's list of priorities, and I think that's fair on both sides. Their family is rich, and Perrin (probably?) took the primary caregiver role, so Leida wanted for nothing. But...yeah, it would probably irritate me to know my mother thought I was less important than her role in government, even if I didn't actually need her for anything.
Or maybe Leida was just born with bad vibes! I hope we see her less going forward -- though it would be interesting if Leida's foray into this very traditional Chandrilan lifestyle makes her realize why her mother made her lazy, last-ditch attempt to dissuade Leida from the marriage. (In this one small way, I think Leida is right: Leida wanted the wedding for a full year, and is wretchedly traditional in all aspects of her teenaged life, and knows that Mon would be perfectly happy to delay or even call off the wedding forever. On the actual wedding day, she's not asking to be talked out of it! And just this once, I think she's allowed to be irritated that her mom won't give her what she wants by making a pretending to be supportive for a few minutes.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:11 PM on April 26 [7 favorites]
Or maybe Leida was just born with bad vibes! I hope we see her less going forward -- though it would be interesting if Leida's foray into this very traditional Chandrilan lifestyle makes her realize why her mother made her lazy, last-ditch attempt to dissuade Leida from the marriage. (In this one small way, I think Leida is right: Leida wanted the wedding for a full year, and is wretchedly traditional in all aspects of her teenaged life, and knows that Mon would be perfectly happy to delay or even call off the wedding forever. On the actual wedding day, she's not asking to be talked out of it! And just this once, I think she's allowed to be irritated that her mom won't give her what she wants by making a pretending to be supportive for a few minutes.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:11 PM on April 26 [7 favorites]
I don't remember S1 being so funny.
I'm wondering if the idea is to more smoothly match the more quippy Star Wars of Rogue One.
To me it felt like in E1 we came back into the story after a relative period of calm and perhaps even a small sense of having found some safety. I felt it immediately in the tone of Andor's exchange with Niya (the tech) at the Sienar Test Facility. There was a softness and sense of optimism that seemed to me to be a little off brand for him, esp. given the events at the end of S1. But I think everyone was taking a deep breath.
As the 4 BBY story arc evolves (E2) and reaches its climax (E3) , that relaxed tone is ebbs and then dissapears, replaced with feelings of loss, dread and anger. The edge is back. Perhaps the only one who never let go of that was Luthen. And also, of course, freakin' Cinta.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:19 PM on April 26 [3 favorites]
I'm wondering if the idea is to more smoothly match the more quippy Star Wars of Rogue One.
To me it felt like in E1 we came back into the story after a relative period of calm and perhaps even a small sense of having found some safety. I felt it immediately in the tone of Andor's exchange with Niya (the tech) at the Sienar Test Facility. There was a softness and sense of optimism that seemed to me to be a little off brand for him, esp. given the events at the end of S1. But I think everyone was taking a deep breath.
As the 4 BBY story arc evolves (E2) and reaches its climax (E3) , that relaxed tone is ebbs and then dissapears, replaced with feelings of loss, dread and anger. The edge is back. Perhaps the only one who never let go of that was Luthen. And also, of course, freakin' Cinta.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:19 PM on April 26 [3 favorites]
I would not go so far as to say Dedra is a decent partner. I am sure she is using Syril to further her obsession with finding Axis.
If what she said about her background is true, I don't think she understands the difference between a life partner and a useful asset.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:38 PM on April 26 [5 favorites]
If what she said about her background is true, I don't think she understands the difference between a life partner and a useful asset.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:38 PM on April 26 [5 favorites]
I need to go back an watch all Cinta (and Vel) scenes. It s great writing that we see her appear and it s like we are seeing the cold gaze of the Reaper herself.
posted by eustatic at 7:24 PM on April 26 [1 favorite]
posted by eustatic at 7:24 PM on April 26 [1 favorite]
Why does Perrin think his daughter is getting married? Sculden, Tay, and Mon think it’s in exchange for the Sculden-Tay money laundering operation. Does it make sense if you don’t know that? Once Tay disappears, I wonder if Perrin will get suspicious if something connected to Sculden was happening.
posted by brendano at 8:35 PM on April 26 [4 favorites]
posted by brendano at 8:35 PM on April 26 [4 favorites]
I think he knows in vague terms that they have money problems (perhaps his fault, as far as he knows, which he doesn't) and the Sculden bond fixes those, in some possibly shifty ways, but these are exceptional times, and I'm not sure Perrin cares so much / is a good judge of character. He's more of a fuckboy than a patriarch. But, Leida was already interested in marrying Chandrilan style, anyway, with no one in particular in mind, so I think from Perrin's point of view it's perfectly sensible and even an easy win, things just falling his way like they're supposed to! It's a special bonus that both sides of the deal make his buzzkill wife eat dirt, for once.
posted by fleacircus at 5:46 AM on April 27 [2 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 5:46 AM on April 27 [2 favorites]
Or: why does Perrin think Mon agreed to the marriage? He knows her well and should know she feels very negatively about the idea. He may know something doesn’t add up.
(edit: yeah that’s all possible! but reasons for suspicion)
posted by brendano at 5:54 AM on April 27 [1 favorite]
(edit: yeah that’s all possible! but reasons for suspicion)
posted by brendano at 5:54 AM on April 27 [1 favorite]
Well that was a great movie. It took me awhile to appreciate, it moves kind of slow and not much happens plot-wise in these first three episodes. But then Andor is all about the characters and the psychodrama, not the plot machinations. Only one bit of plot needs to happen in Andor, someone needs to steal the Death Star plans. The rest of this is all glorious exposition.
My favorite story arc was seeing Syril and Dedra together. Denise Gough is a fantastic actor. And I really enjoy Syril's character. I could watch a whole show about their courtship after Ferrix. Syril was set up as this awful obsessive incel stalking Dedra. And then he actually rescued her. So now he's got the girl? A storybook romance, at least if that storybook were fanfic on 4chan. But I don't think Dedra is that kind of woman. She needed rescuing, sure, but afterwards she's not going to fall in love with her hero. She's going to resent that Syril saw her in a moment of vulnerability. Maybe she's just got Syril around because he amuses her. Or maybe she's got a larger plan using him for her own ends.
(Idea for future exposition: Dedra is a non-camp Servalan, this is the backstory of her rise to power.)
On the sexual assault on Bix.. What I don't like is how they chose to direct and edit it. They chose to show a whole lot, several cuts of violence, many seconds of screentime of her under direct physical assault. They could have done that off screen like so much of the rest of the show. We never see Brasso actually get shot (to our confusion), we don't see Cinta slice Tay up with her little knives. They could have shown the assault in about two seconds: he puts his hands on her, she swings a hammer, and scene.
There's a thing modern American TV does where it shows sexual assault of women for entertainment. To heighten the sense of peril, to create the fear and upset of the violence, to make it visceral. Andor isn't usually that kind of TV, but for a few too many seconds it was. And the show doesn't need to do that. It's a much better show when its drama plays out at dinner parties and weddings and migrant labor camps.
posted by Nelson at 6:32 AM on April 27 [6 favorites]
My favorite story arc was seeing Syril and Dedra together. Denise Gough is a fantastic actor. And I really enjoy Syril's character. I could watch a whole show about their courtship after Ferrix. Syril was set up as this awful obsessive incel stalking Dedra. And then he actually rescued her. So now he's got the girl? A storybook romance, at least if that storybook were fanfic on 4chan. But I don't think Dedra is that kind of woman. She needed rescuing, sure, but afterwards she's not going to fall in love with her hero. She's going to resent that Syril saw her in a moment of vulnerability. Maybe she's just got Syril around because he amuses her. Or maybe she's got a larger plan using him for her own ends.
(Idea for future exposition: Dedra is a non-camp Servalan, this is the backstory of her rise to power.)
On the sexual assault on Bix.. What I don't like is how they chose to direct and edit it. They chose to show a whole lot, several cuts of violence, many seconds of screentime of her under direct physical assault. They could have done that off screen like so much of the rest of the show. We never see Brasso actually get shot (to our confusion), we don't see Cinta slice Tay up with her little knives. They could have shown the assault in about two seconds: he puts his hands on her, she swings a hammer, and scene.
There's a thing modern American TV does where it shows sexual assault of women for entertainment. To heighten the sense of peril, to create the fear and upset of the violence, to make it visceral. Andor isn't usually that kind of TV, but for a few too many seconds it was. And the show doesn't need to do that. It's a much better show when its drama plays out at dinner parties and weddings and migrant labor camps.
posted by Nelson at 6:32 AM on April 27 [6 favorites]
So, Dedra Meero was orphaned at 3 and grew up in an Empire orphanage. Denise Gough, the actress who plays her, is 45. Does this mean that Andor is set 30-40 something years after the fall of the Republic? I kind of hate how the prequels compressed the timeline of this universe.
posted by Omon Ra at 8:35 AM on April 27
posted by Omon Ra at 8:35 AM on April 27
StarWars.com says that “Dedra grew up in what would later be named an Imperial kinderblock”, so she’s using new terminology for something that’s existed since the Republic era. From Wookieepedia, I gather this is something that may have been invented by the Andor crew. The earliest mention is from a reference work that came out last summer, long after the Andor scripts were written.
posted by Kattullus at 9:12 AM on April 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 9:12 AM on April 27 [1 favorite]
Between Imperial kinderblocks and Jedi child training academies, the Star Wars universe sure is a crappy place to be a kid. Maybe Luke didn't have it so bad growing up on the farm.
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on April 27 [3 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on April 27 [3 favorites]
The whole point of pretty much the entirety of Star Wars is that Luke had basically the best possible in-universe childhood. His professional obligations were minimal and he was seen to by responsible adults who cared about him. Most of the other children we see are doing some sort of grown-up, capital-L Labor, and much of it is dangerous, involuntary, and uncompensated. Even the apparently cushier gigs - junior legislator, elected child queen - involve a level of responsibility, public exposure, and pressure I wouldn't want my children to have to handle in their teens.
Don't even get me started on the clones, lol. I could compile an essay from my comments on The Bad Batch alone.
Farm kid who has time to get up to youthful "fast driving" shenanigans and feels comfortable enough to whine back at his guardian when he has plans interrupted by his responsibilities on the farm? That's at least recognizable as a childhood to a modern audience.
posted by potrzebie at 11:09 AM on April 27 [8 favorites]
Don't even get me started on the clones, lol. I could compile an essay from my comments on The Bad Batch alone.
Farm kid who has time to get up to youthful "fast driving" shenanigans and feels comfortable enough to whine back at his guardian when he has plans interrupted by his responsibilities on the farm? That's at least recognizable as a childhood to a modern audience.
posted by potrzebie at 11:09 AM on April 27 [8 favorites]
Dedra is an orphan. Cass was looking for his sister, though the plot has been dropped. I hope she isn’t the sister, but I do wonder, especially since they specifically mentioned her past.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:18 AM on April 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:18 AM on April 27 [4 favorites]
This also crossed my mind.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:46 AM on April 27
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:46 AM on April 27
Except the little girl we saw on Kenari had dark hair and eyes, like Cassian. I don’t think even Gilroy could make Dedra being the missing sister plausible.
I would love it if Perrin were a dark horse after all but I suspect he’s just as shallow as his wedding speech: here for a good meal, and a laugh, and who cares about anything else.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:59 PM on April 27 [7 favorites]
I would love it if Perrin were a dark horse after all but I suspect he’s just as shallow as his wedding speech: here for a good meal, and a laugh, and who cares about anything else.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:59 PM on April 27 [7 favorites]
To be clear, I think Andor S1 is some of the best television and best Star Wars made. S1E1 is a masterclass in scene writing. In every single scene characters need something, are in opposition, are trying to convince others. Tight, tight, tight.
S2 so far, far less so. There's a lot of reacting. Someone shares information, someone else reacts. Tey tells Mon Mothma about his situation; she reacts. Later he tells her again, she reacts again. She tells Luthen; he reacts. And again.
But my biggest disappointment is the Bix arc. In S1 she's a business owner and boss, a black market dabbler, and has a complex private life that doesn't involve her boyfriend (at first). She gets mixed up in Andor's troubles and suffers for it terribly. So far in S2 she's the pretty person who waits around to be sexually assaulted. Her killing her attacker is cheap female empowerment that attempts to wallpaper over violence against her as entertainment. That's not female empowerment. Being a small business owner and black market dabbler with a complex private life is female empowerment.
What happened to the tech who helped Andor steal the ship??? She had New Character vibes, but then, *poof*.
Dedra is totally going to set Syril up as the fake rebel leader. What if he turns out to be really good at it?
posted by moonmoth at 2:16 PM on April 27 [5 favorites]
S2 so far, far less so. There's a lot of reacting. Someone shares information, someone else reacts. Tey tells Mon Mothma about his situation; she reacts. Later he tells her again, she reacts again. She tells Luthen; he reacts. And again.
But my biggest disappointment is the Bix arc. In S1 she's a business owner and boss, a black market dabbler, and has a complex private life that doesn't involve her boyfriend (at first). She gets mixed up in Andor's troubles and suffers for it terribly. So far in S2 she's the pretty person who waits around to be sexually assaulted. Her killing her attacker is cheap female empowerment that attempts to wallpaper over violence against her as entertainment. That's not female empowerment. Being a small business owner and black market dabbler with a complex private life is female empowerment.
What happened to the tech who helped Andor steal the ship??? She had New Character vibes, but then, *poof*.
Dedra is totally going to set Syril up as the fake rebel leader. What if he turns out to be really good at it?
posted by moonmoth at 2:16 PM on April 27 [5 favorites]
why does Perrin think Mon agreed to the marriage?
I think he thinks she doesn't have much choice. Even without knowing that Mon is doing actual treason, they've had their bank accounts frozen and the Empire is breathing down their necks. They're a troubled asset and they need friends and there might not be that many takers. Also, Leida wants this marriage and Perrin would know Mon will respect her wishes, even if she doesn't like it. These are more like space liberals than like, the Lannisters.
posted by fleacircus at 4:09 PM on April 27 [1 favorite]
I think he thinks she doesn't have much choice. Even without knowing that Mon is doing actual treason, they've had their bank accounts frozen and the Empire is breathing down their necks. They're a troubled asset and they need friends and there might not be that many takers. Also, Leida wants this marriage and Perrin would know Mon will respect her wishes, even if she doesn't like it. These are more like space liberals than like, the Lannisters.
posted by fleacircus at 4:09 PM on April 27 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher: "Dedra is an orphan. Cass was looking for his sister, though the plot has been dropped. I hope she isn’t the sister, but I do wonder, especially since they specifically mentioned her past."
I have a very much fan theory that Luthen's assistant is his sister.
posted by Atreides at 4:29 PM on April 27 [8 favorites]
I have a very much fan theory that Luthen's assistant is his sister.
posted by Atreides at 4:29 PM on April 27 [8 favorites]
First video I’ve come across of Mon dancing to a different tune. Let a hundred flowers bloom!
posted by Kattullus at 12:47 AM on April 28 [5 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 12:47 AM on April 28 [5 favorites]
So, Dedra Meero was orphaned at 3 and grew up in an Empire orphanage. Denise Gough, the actress who plays her, is 45. Does this mean that Andor is set 30-40 something years after the fall of the Republic? I kind of hate how the prequels compressed the timeline of this universe.
Part of the Republic-Empire transition was that the Emperor immediately tried to erase all traces/references to the Republic (this might be why the still-pretty-new Republic Venator cruisers are being scrapped on Ferrix and replaced by the classic Star Destroyers). "There has always been a Galactic Empire" sort of thing. Imperial die-hards referring to everything as "Imperial" even when it was originally "Republic" could be part of this.
I hope the sister plot gets resolved somehow but I also really hope it doesn't turn out that an existing character we've already met is his surprise sister, that's a little too on-the-nose. Dedra's orphan past is maybe just to contrast with Andor's.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:59 AM on April 28 [2 favorites]
Part of the Republic-Empire transition was that the Emperor immediately tried to erase all traces/references to the Republic (this might be why the still-pretty-new Republic Venator cruisers are being scrapped on Ferrix and replaced by the classic Star Destroyers). "There has always been a Galactic Empire" sort of thing. Imperial die-hards referring to everything as "Imperial" even when it was originally "Republic" could be part of this.
I hope the sister plot gets resolved somehow but I also really hope it doesn't turn out that an existing character we've already met is his surprise sister, that's a little too on-the-nose. Dedra's orphan past is maybe just to contrast with Andor's.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:59 AM on April 28 [2 favorites]
And hey speaking of childhood in Star Wars: make your own AT-ST puppet as seen on Mina-Rau!
Fair warning this is more of a "here's how to create a screen-accurate prop" than a craft project for kids...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:02 AM on April 28 [5 favorites]
Fair warning this is more of a "here's how to create a screen-accurate prop" than a craft project for kids...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:02 AM on April 28 [5 favorites]
That's the creation of Kelly Knox, who posted something along the lines, "This was one of the hardest things for me to figure out!" Which means, she's done the hard work. She's an incredibly gifted crafter (and jokester) and has a published book of Star Wars "dad" jokes. The shocking thing is she doesn't have a published book of Star Wars crafts.
posted by Atreides at 6:47 AM on April 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 6:47 AM on April 28 [2 favorites]
Dedra is totally going to set Syril up as the fake rebel leader. What if he turns out to be really good at it?
I mean, she flat out told Krennic that they needed to have rebels they could count on to fail. I don't think she has Suril in mind at that very moment, but she will figure that out.
posted by briank at 10:01 AM on April 28 [1 favorite]
I mean, she flat out told Krennic that they needed to have rebels they could count on to fail. I don't think she has Suril in mind at that very moment, but she will figure that out.
posted by briank at 10:01 AM on April 28 [1 favorite]
Some good observations here, for a good ending to the first arc of this season. Some notes:
- It does suck what the show has been doing with Bix. I understand the point that Gilroy is trying to make, but Bix has already been through some shit. I think that the scene might have hit differently if she had decided to keep one of her tools handy--say, one that might conceivably double as a weapon, one more deadly than that pipe wrench or whatever it was--as long as Lieutenant Oh Is Your Husband Away At The Moment and his gang were around.
- Speaking of farm scenes, that one guy turning out to be a collaborator--and his not even trying to defend himself--was sad but not entirely unexpected.
- I love the idea of Syril having his are-we-the-baddies moment and going real rebel. That pristine apartment of his and Dedra's looks ready-made to get fucked up in a shootout between the two.
- I may have gasped audibly when Cinta showed up as Tay's replacement chauffeur.
- Interesting symbolism with the knife at the marriage. Chekov's Knife?
- Very much hoping that the tech from E1 shows up again in the rebellion.
- I definitely LOLed at The Shittiest Rebels getting so caught up in their rock-paper-scissors that they left Cassian alone with a weapon and the least competent member of their not-really-competent crew. I wonder if they're going to be remembered as the doomed but noble first rebels to establish a base on Yavin...
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:57 AM on April 28 [3 favorites]
- It does suck what the show has been doing with Bix. I understand the point that Gilroy is trying to make, but Bix has already been through some shit. I think that the scene might have hit differently if she had decided to keep one of her tools handy--say, one that might conceivably double as a weapon, one more deadly than that pipe wrench or whatever it was--as long as Lieutenant Oh Is Your Husband Away At The Moment and his gang were around.
- Speaking of farm scenes, that one guy turning out to be a collaborator--and his not even trying to defend himself--was sad but not entirely unexpected.
- I love the idea of Syril having his are-we-the-baddies moment and going real rebel. That pristine apartment of his and Dedra's looks ready-made to get fucked up in a shootout between the two.
- I may have gasped audibly when Cinta showed up as Tay's replacement chauffeur.
- Interesting symbolism with the knife at the marriage. Chekov's Knife?
- Very much hoping that the tech from E1 shows up again in the rebellion.
- I definitely LOLed at The Shittiest Rebels getting so caught up in their rock-paper-scissors that they left Cassian alone with a weapon and the least competent member of their not-really-competent crew. I wonder if they're going to be remembered as the doomed but noble first rebels to establish a base on Yavin...
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:57 AM on April 28 [3 favorites]
Halloween Jack: - Speaking of farm scenes, that one guy turning out to be a collaborator--and his not even trying to defend himself--was sad but not entirely unexpected.
That’s not how I read it at all. I took it that Brasso was making it look like he and Kellen were at odds, so that the imperials wouldn’t come after him. That’s how I interpreted the glance between them when Brasso’s on all fours.
posted by Kattullus at 12:19 PM on April 28 [22 favorites]
That’s not how I read it at all. I took it that Brasso was making it look like he and Kellen were at odds, so that the imperials wouldn’t come after him. That’s how I interpreted the glance between them when Brasso’s on all fours.
posted by Kattullus at 12:19 PM on April 28 [22 favorites]
I took it that Brasso was making it look like he and Kellen were at odds, so that the imperials wouldn’t come after him.
That's also how I read it (Kellen looks bewildered,) but it doesn't really make sense. The Imperials would know that he didn't implicate Brasso, so he would now be under suspicion.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:33 PM on April 28 [4 favorites]
That's also how I read it (Kellen looks bewildered,) but it doesn't really make sense. The Imperials would know that he didn't implicate Brasso, so he would now be under suspicion.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:33 PM on April 28 [4 favorites]
Thirding this. I interpreted their glance as Brasso telling Kellan Thanks, you did your best.
I really hope the Yavin Dingleberries return. Their "ohhhh" like disappointed children when Cassian flew away gets funnier every time I see it. Bless their hearts!
posted by orrnyereg at 12:42 PM on April 28 [2 favorites]
I really hope the Yavin Dingleberries return. Their "ohhhh" like disappointed children when Cassian flew away gets funnier every time I see it. Bless their hearts!
posted by orrnyereg at 12:42 PM on April 28 [2 favorites]
That pristine apartment of his and Dedra's looks ready-made to get fucked up in a shootout between the two.
Oh please oh please oh please.
Occurs to me that once Rebel Syril is in place, Cassian will be sent to make contact on behalf of the greater Rebellion. Hilarity ensues.
Syril: Rebels, this man is an outlaw. Seize him!
Rebels: We are all outlaws.
Syril: He's a murderer!
Rebels: That is literally our job.
Syril: He killed people collaborating with the enemy!
Rebels: [Give Cassian a medal.]
posted by moonmoth at 2:40 PM on April 28 [5 favorites]
Oh please oh please oh please.
Occurs to me that once Rebel Syril is in place, Cassian will be sent to make contact on behalf of the greater Rebellion. Hilarity ensues.
Syril: Rebels, this man is an outlaw. Seize him!
Rebels: We are all outlaws.
Syril: He's a murderer!
Rebels: That is literally our job.
Syril: He killed people collaborating with the enemy!
Rebels: [Give Cassian a medal.]
posted by moonmoth at 2:40 PM on April 28 [5 favorites]
Oh, yeah, one more thing: Luke may have had the easiest childhood for most of the history of the franchise--it sure beats laboring in the phlegm mines of Scrotus IV or whatever--but the kids of Et Ettin have him beat. That one pirate invasion notwithstanding, of course.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:42 PM on April 28 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:42 PM on April 28 [7 favorites]
That’s not how I read it at all. I took it that Brasso was making it look like he and Kellen were at odds, so that the imperials wouldn’t come after him. That’s how I interpreted the glance between them when Brasso’s on all fours.
Yes same here - when Brasso's on the ground, Helpful Guy gives him a tiny tiny smile. Brasso gives a tiny tiny smile back. I read that as
HG: "Thanks for making it look like we're not pals"
Brasso: "No worries"
If HG had really been selling them out, I think there would have been even a small hint before that (when Nurchi sold out Cassian on Ferrix, it was obvious what he was doing), but he seemed to be being genuinely helpful.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:39 AM on April 29 [5 favorites]
Yes same here - when Brasso's on the ground, Helpful Guy gives him a tiny tiny smile. Brasso gives a tiny tiny smile back. I read that as
HG: "Thanks for making it look like we're not pals"
Brasso: "No worries"
If HG had really been selling them out, I think there would have been even a small hint before that (when Nurchi sold out Cassian on Ferrix, it was obvious what he was doing), but he seemed to be being genuinely helpful.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:39 AM on April 29 [5 favorites]
ChurchHatesTucker: "That's also how I read it (Kellen looks bewildered,) but it doesn't really make sense. The Imperials would know that he didn't implicate Brasso, so he would now be under suspicion."
Exactly. Kellen was better off with Brasso not saying anything at all, as the only way it makes any sense would be that Kellen did sell them out and Brasso yelling at him indicates he forgave him for doing so.
The idea of Syril/Dedra, either, going rebel is interesting. With Dedra, we don't have a clear motivation for her support of the Empire other than I think she's on the side of "order." I'm sure there's a statement in S1 that clarifies it.
Now with Syril, he is the interesting fellow because he's very much "lawful justice" type of guy. He believes in the law and if there's one thing the Empire will do, break the law for the purpose of control and order. He makes a big deal about finding that cabal of purchasers who were illegally buying goods and all. His whole storyline began because he needed to follow the law in apprehending Cassian, against his supervisor's orders. I do wonder if he will break when he sees what he thought was the law abiding/upholding Empire break said laws. It will become the lawful thing to fight against it.
posted by Atreides at 7:06 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
Exactly. Kellen was better off with Brasso not saying anything at all, as the only way it makes any sense would be that Kellen did sell them out and Brasso yelling at him indicates he forgave him for doing so.
The idea of Syril/Dedra, either, going rebel is interesting. With Dedra, we don't have a clear motivation for her support of the Empire other than I think she's on the side of "order." I'm sure there's a statement in S1 that clarifies it.
Now with Syril, he is the interesting fellow because he's very much "lawful justice" type of guy. He believes in the law and if there's one thing the Empire will do, break the law for the purpose of control and order. He makes a big deal about finding that cabal of purchasers who were illegally buying goods and all. His whole storyline began because he needed to follow the law in apprehending Cassian, against his supervisor's orders. I do wonder if he will break when he sees what he thought was the law abiding/upholding Empire break said laws. It will become the lawful thing to fight against it.
posted by Atreides at 7:06 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
I think it could be interpreted that Brasso was heading over there to kill Kellen before he was ratted out. Either way, I think it was a good try by Brasso and one that probably won't be examined too closely in all the chaos. Kellen will be mentally classified as "with us" by the Imps.
posted by PussKillian at 7:51 AM on April 29 [3 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 7:51 AM on April 29 [3 favorites]
Kellen was better off with Brasso not saying anything at all, as the only way it makes any sense would be that Kellen did sell them out and Brasso yelling at him indicates he forgave him for doing so.
Honestly, I'm a little confused about this too, but what I think it's actually supposed to indicate is:
posted by thecaddy at 7:55 AM on April 29 [10 favorites]
Honestly, I'm a little confused about this too, but what I think it's actually supposed to indicate is:
- Kellen was "employing" Brasso et al. and therefore, Kellen was at risk because he should have known about Brasso's immigration status but still hired him.
- Brasso is also aware of the very compressed timeline—he rushed out to get Paak home as soon as saw the imperial troops come through—so he knows Kellen probably hasn't had a chance to say anything good or bad yet.
- Brasso cursing Kellen out implies to the imperials that there was distrust between them, so anything Kellen says after the fact (trying to distance himself from the three Ferrix refugees) will be accepted more readily, therefore protecting Kellen
posted by thecaddy at 7:55 AM on April 29 [10 favorites]
Some predictions and connections:
During the first episode of this season ("One Year Later"), Dedra says that the Empire needs a reliable "insurgency" on Ghorman that will make precisely the most optimal-for-the-Empire move precisely on the Empire's timetable. And after hearing that, and watching the bumbling rebel group, I turned to my spouse and predicted: that is the group she'll use. They're bad at making strategic decisions, and easy to inflame into counterproductive and schismatic violence.
Karn works in auditing inventory; the troops who came to survey the grain farms were doing an audit. He might be well placed to notice discrepancies that help Dedra continue her quest to hunt down Cassian and his group.
A dude at the wedding told Luthen that he has history on Ghorman. So I figure we'll see him again.
posted by brainwane at 8:19 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
During the first episode of this season ("One Year Later"), Dedra says that the Empire needs a reliable "insurgency" on Ghorman that will make precisely the most optimal-for-the-Empire move precisely on the Empire's timetable. And after hearing that, and watching the bumbling rebel group, I turned to my spouse and predicted: that is the group she'll use. They're bad at making strategic decisions, and easy to inflame into counterproductive and schismatic violence.
Karn works in auditing inventory; the troops who came to survey the grain farms were doing an audit. He might be well placed to notice discrepancies that help Dedra continue her quest to hunt down Cassian and his group.
A dude at the wedding told Luthen that he has history on Ghorman. So I figure we'll see him again.
posted by brainwane at 8:19 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
With Tay out of the picture, will Perrin's attention slide to Luthen? He doesn't seem especially intelligent but he is jealous and he can't have missed Mon's intense conversations with Luthen. Also, without Leida around to occupy his attention Perrin will have more opportunities for mischief. Of course much will depend on whether Cinta makes Tay look like an accident.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:46 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 8:46 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
whether Cinta makes Tay look like an accident.
Thanks to the groundwork laid by Tay, Cinta would have to be really incompetent for Tay’s death to look like anything but his own fault. And Cinta is not incompetent.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:35 AM on April 29 [2 favorites]
Thanks to the groundwork laid by Tay, Cinta would have to be really incompetent for Tay’s death to look like anything but his own fault. And Cinta is not incompetent.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:35 AM on April 29 [2 favorites]
Today I listened to the What the Force podcast episode about the first three episodes of this season. It's a Canadian Star Wars podcast, and this episode features a grounded and insightful discussion between Marie-Claire Gould and Missy, where they go through each episode. They noticed things I didn't, and put things in perspective that I appreciated. I hadn't heard of it before, but I saw it recommended on Bluesky and wasn't disappointed.
posted by Kattullus at 12:21 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 12:21 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment removed. Please avoid revealing details as it's FanFare policy to avoid posting spoilers. Even if you've hidden the spoiler, folks may want to talk about the spoiler in the current thread, so don't post spoilers at all, thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 2:24 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 2:24 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
One thing I noticed that no one has mentioned - groovebot at the wedding had a very death star-like design.
posted by coriolisdave at 8:16 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
posted by coriolisdave at 8:16 PM on April 29 [1 favorite]
As far as the Brasso vs. Kellen debate goes, I liked this heartfelt video by Generation Tech on the subject, and I come down on the same side he does: Brasso's a protector, and he's trying to protect Kellen by demonstrating to the Imperials a rift between himself and Kellen. And it seems to work - one of the Imperials remarks to Kellen, "You're lucky we were here." after they've knocked Brasso to the ground. I also think it's an accurate reading of Brasso's character to say that if he truly believed Kellen had sold them out, his reaction would be more disappointment than anger.
I think Gilroy had a lot to fit in and very little screentime to do it - my guess is Gilroy wanted to squeeze in the idea that people will hire illegal immigrants to harvest crops and then call ICE in themselves just to get out of paying said illegal immigrants (which is absolutely a thing that happens in the real world, that a lot of folks watching Andor probably aren't aware of) but trying to squeeze in that concept without putting it in the actual plot may have muddied things a bit, unfortunately.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:17 PM on April 29 [7 favorites]
I think Gilroy had a lot to fit in and very little screentime to do it - my guess is Gilroy wanted to squeeze in the idea that people will hire illegal immigrants to harvest crops and then call ICE in themselves just to get out of paying said illegal immigrants (which is absolutely a thing that happens in the real world, that a lot of folks watching Andor probably aren't aware of) but trying to squeeze in that concept without putting it in the actual plot may have muddied things a bit, unfortunately.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:17 PM on April 29 [7 favorites]
I saw a comment on reddit noticing that the Niamos music plays during moments of escapism. Besides the Niamos scene in “Announcement,” it shows up during the brothel scene in the first episode, a cocktail party at Mothma’s, and now here. Makes total sense. “Niamos” is an anagram of somnia: Latin for “dreams.”
Fan videos and mashups I’d love to see:
The “Mon Mothma dancing” video, but to “Dance Yrself Clean.”
A fan edit of the last Death Star scene in Rogue One, but “Niamos” fades in as the Mon Calamari deckhand says the line about “a massive object emerging from hyperspace,” with the beat dropping as the space station fires on Scarif.
Since the chord progression is a variation of the “Royal Road” progression, “Niamos” plus “Never Gonna Give You Up” is absolutely possible.
posted by donatella at 10:13 PM on April 29 [4 favorites]
Fan videos and mashups I’d love to see:
The “Mon Mothma dancing” video, but to “Dance Yrself Clean.”
A fan edit of the last Death Star scene in Rogue One, but “Niamos” fades in as the Mon Calamari deckhand says the line about “a massive object emerging from hyperspace,” with the beat dropping as the space station fires on Scarif.
Since the chord progression is a variation of the “Royal Road” progression, “Niamos” plus “Never Gonna Give You Up” is absolutely possible.
posted by donatella at 10:13 PM on April 29 [4 favorites]
Random notes as I key up the next batch of episodes:
It's makes no logistical sense that Cas was able to steal and get away with an advanced prototype starfighter. The Imperials should be all over that, trying to get it back and finding out who stole it.
I love this show so much I don't care about that plot hole. I had the D+ subscription that showed ads, but switched to the ad free version for a month while Andor plays out, 'cause the quality is top notch, the story is engaging, and it feels like something fresh or at least different. The idea of a commercial popping up during this show is absolutely intolerable, so I'm willing to pay more to avoid that.
Please Disney, more like this and you can gouge me for money.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:08 AM on April 30 [5 favorites]
It's makes no logistical sense that Cas was able to steal and get away with an advanced prototype starfighter. The Imperials should be all over that, trying to get it back and finding out who stole it.
I love this show so much I don't care about that plot hole. I had the D+ subscription that showed ads, but switched to the ad free version for a month while Andor plays out, 'cause the quality is top notch, the story is engaging, and it feels like something fresh or at least different. The idea of a commercial popping up during this show is absolutely intolerable, so I'm willing to pay more to avoid that.
Please Disney, more like this and you can gouge me for money.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:08 AM on April 30 [5 favorites]
One thing I noticed that no one has mentioned - groovebot at the wedding had a very death star-like design.
Death star, or interrogation droid? Where is the rebel b-b-bass?
posted by Kyol at 6:14 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
Death star, or interrogation droid? Where is the rebel b-b-bass?
posted by Kyol at 6:14 AM on April 30 [4 favorites]
I can understand why the Bix scene is going to be divisive - perhaps Gilroy and/or Kleiman leant too hard into the visceral nature of the rapid and chaotic escalation of levels of violence as the stakes change. And there are some good suggestions about how to imply rather than straight up show. Certainly, it seems as if Bix has already suffered enough.
Cinta just being on hand - too pat? I guess there's a bit of handwaving one can do about Luthen having summoned her after his first conversation with Mon.
Overall though, the moment to moment acting, the cinematography, the costumes (!), the production design, the music, all are right up there with S1; and the stakes are only getting higher.
posted by domdib at 2:56 PM on May 1 [1 favorite]
Cinta just being on hand - too pat? I guess there's a bit of handwaving one can do about Luthen having summoned her after his first conversation with Mon.
Overall though, the moment to moment acting, the cinematography, the costumes (!), the production design, the music, all are right up there with S1; and the stakes are only getting higher.
posted by domdib at 2:56 PM on May 1 [1 favorite]
Okay, getting this written here before we decode the next three spools: Dedra, I thought, winced a bit at the silk-spiders during that movie she got to watch in class. Therefore, I predict a spidery come-uppance.
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:20 PM on May 1 [2 favorites]
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:20 PM on May 1 [2 favorites]
I had a interesting debate with a friend about the “number” conversation between Mon and Luthen. His take was that Mon was essentially taking an order from Luthen, that he was the one calling the shots in the rebellion. My read was that it was the opposite, that Luthen came to Mon like a vizier, and had to get her acquiescence for his plan, and that their conversation was her taking his point and letting him have Tay murdered. Anyway, I found it fascinating that we had such diametrically opposed views of that scene, and we’re both convinced our take is correct.
posted by Kattullus at 1:49 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 1:49 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
I think Mon very much wanted to try and find an actual number for Tay, but was also convinced, if angrily, by Luthen that there was no number. She acquiesced to Tay's murder through inaction, but it was a conversation of mutuals at the minimum. Luthen recognizes he needs Mon's money and her political capital, Mon recognizes she needs Luthen to be the person in the shadows, pulling strings to do whatever it takes to stop the Emperor.
posted by Atreides at 7:05 AM on May 2 [5 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 7:05 AM on May 2 [5 favorites]
Nobody gets to have clean hands in this rebellion.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:35 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 7:35 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
Various covers and remixes cropping up of "Niamos", the techno banger in the wedding dance scene. Two covers that capture the vibe well:
Paul Drew - Mon Mothma Dance Theme『 Niamos! 』| EPIC CLUB HOUSE VERSION
Jeremy Brauns - NIAMOS | Season 2 Club MIX and his Metal Version
Less faithful, but interesting: K4ME7NIL - STARWAR ANDOR (Cover Mon Mothma)
And if 3-4 minutes isn't enough, here's Disney's own contribution, looping the original track: ONE HOUR OF DANCING MON MOTHMA
posted by rory at 7:40 AM on May 3 [4 favorites]
Paul Drew - Mon Mothma Dance Theme『 Niamos! 』| EPIC CLUB HOUSE VERSION
Jeremy Brauns - NIAMOS | Season 2 Club MIX and his Metal Version
Less faithful, but interesting: K4ME7NIL - STARWAR ANDOR (Cover Mon Mothma)
And if 3-4 minutes isn't enough, here's Disney's own contribution, looping the original track: ONE HOUR OF DANCING MON MOTHMA
posted by rory at 7:40 AM on May 3 [4 favorites]
Andor Season 2 Declassified: Time | Contains Spoilers Eps 1-3
posted by rory at 12:43 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
posted by rory at 12:43 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
I have a completely different take on the Mon/Leida scene. Mon reads, to me, as an anguished mother who has just realized how massively she has fucked up in trading her daughter for money. I think at first Mon was probably like, well, Leida wants this stupid trad marriage and I really need the money because otherwise the Emperor is going to suspect something. But then it became reality, she saw how her daughter was nervous, she hates the trad thing because it saddled her with Perrin and OH YEAH HOLY FUCK MY DAUGHTER IS FOURTEEN. I think Mon really, fully believed that she was giving her daughter an out, without being all OMFG YOU ARE FOURTEEN THIS IS SO DUMB about it. And then Leida does what every fourteen-year-old girl does when her mother suggests something: NOPE MOM I AM DOING THIS REALLY DUMB THING BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT ME TO DO IT.
posted by cooker girl at 9:33 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 9:33 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
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The tonal shifts in this episode were delightfully disorientating.
-Rock-paper-scissors
-Cinta's reappearance (and we all know what THAT means)
-A Chandrilan rave
-Overbearing mom v. Gestapo girlfriend
This was a very strong start; can't wait to see what happens next week!
posted by orrnyereg at 5:42 AM on April 23 [11 favorites]