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March 15, 2015 9:53 PM - Season 5, Episode 14 - Subscribe

Glen, Eugene and Noah head to the station to pick up some power converters. Abraham agitates for improved workplace safety standards. Carol considers domestic matters.
posted by skewed (126 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Noah's death was so... extra. I couldn't look, the sounds alone were horrific.

Abraham literally like a boss, though. A tiny redemption.

That preview!!!!!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:59 PM on March 15, 2015 [3 favorites]


the revolving door was a great set piece. Though I expected them to make it into a stand-off, clear on one-side, and zombie-full on the other, neither group willing to turn toward the zombie side.

It will be interesting to see how the leader (forget her name) reacts to her son being lost.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that the previous construction-site foreman didn't try to spin his humiliation into a macho grudge against Abraham. I thought that's where they were going with it, and it just seemed tired, especially with the Nicholas (the cowardly survivor from the outing) and Pete, the domestic abuser, already playing the 1-dimensional baddies.
posted by skewed at 10:25 PM on March 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Carol should publish her cookie recipe.
posted by davidmsc at 10:25 PM on March 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


I guess they realized they had too many black men on the show again. :P
posted by Jacqueline at 10:28 PM on March 15, 2015 [6 favorites]


First up I wanna give a shout out to slipthought for calling it in the other thread that kiddo would be a creepy little Carol-fan, also whoever said "nuhuh, Carol just loves her some chocolate".

Noah fell victim to a *literal* revolving door of black male character death, it's not even funny.
posted by Iteki at 10:29 PM on March 15, 2015 [14 favorites]


Oh, seems I just talked about "door policy" before, not revolving doors, but still!
posted by Iteki at 10:34 PM on March 15, 2015


Thought Noah's death was very gratuitous, not just the way it was filmed, but the whole thing. This is the first time I've gotten a sadism vibe from a TV show.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:43 AM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


There can be only one (Black male).

When this guy finally shows up, the priest won't be there for long.

Noah wasn't around enough for me to care about him, they need to strengthen the core cast.
posted by FallowKing at 2:27 AM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


Why keep the preacher guy around? And didn't he burn his damn collar at one point? The Alexandria situation is already tense and uncomfortable plus now domestic abuse and the death of the leader's son when in the care of the new arrivals. Was the BS pastor story line really necessary when you have a host of established characters needing to be fleshed out or returned to some relevance (Glenn, Maggie, Carl, Michonne, the stupid baby, post-apocalyptic Elvis, etc).

When this show is shitty, it is really shit. No, just no to mad, delusional preacher plot line. FFS. Why? In exchange for Noah's potential? FFS.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 2:32 AM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


I am honestly completely at a loss for how this show expects me to believe that Rick worries that the locals are too soft, when he's been willingly dragging Eugene and Gabriel around for months.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:11 AM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


I am honestly completely at a loss for how this show expects me to believe that Rick worries that the locals are too soft, when he's been willingly dragging Eugene and Gabriel around for months.

Eugene is soft and cowardly, but he's useful. He knows his skills - that he's no good in the field. He's not a macho asshole feigning confidence and competence. He's loyal - he didn't leave Tara behind, at great risk to his own life. He wouldn't leave Glen. And he knows electronics and machines. He's worth taking along even without the promise of Washington.

Gabriel, now. Fuck that guy.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:30 AM on March 16, 2015 [14 favorites]


Gabriel is beyond annoying because the show forgets about him like 90% of the time and I absolutely am uniterested and uninvested in his existentential drama. He's clearly gone round the bend and is a weasel for going to Deanna... but he's not entirely wrong about the Group, either, which I thought was almost interesting.

That said, I'm not sure why Maggie didn't barrel up the rest of the steps and ask him to account for what happened to his congregation and his church, if he's gonna be all "It's SATAN!"
posted by TwoStride at 5:41 AM on March 16, 2015 [8 favorites]


The first 45 minutes was really poor compared to the next 15. When Gabriel was tattling to Deanna and Maggie was creeping in the shadows of the cellar stairs, that was a really nice shot. The music at that part worked well too.

As soon as Gabriel got some screen time, especially the whole intro, you knew it was probably curtains for Noah. Then when he was getting all hopeful about the future talking with dude in the gazebo, you definitely knew he was a goner.

It was so uncomfortable watching Tyler (Noah) on Talking Dead as the show, including Hardwick, tried to joke about the way he died, when it wasn't really funny. The "Everybody Ate Chris" line was a funny moment, but they seemed to want to make the whole thing a joke. When they brought out his "death mask" or whatever the dummy is called that they used for the scene of him getting killed, that squicked Tyler out. Unless I'm forgetting someone, the last time they did that was when they brought out the death mask for IronE Singleton (T-Dog) and joked about that, although they were at least a bit more reverent. But it's these little moments where you dehumanize black men that get noticed.

But anyway, they really need to get back to where more of the episode is like that 15 minutes. That was captivating. The scenes seemed to relate to each other, you cared about the participants and what was happening, and there was some legitimate drama.
posted by cashman at 5:54 AM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


Rick: "You ever heard about the Broken Window theory?"
Lady: "No"

Me last night: Yeah yeah, it stimulates the economy when something gets broken because someone has to fix it, someone has to sell the parts, etc, it's a fallacy, where is he going with this.

Rick: "Well it's basically if you fix all the Windows, you keep society intact"
Me: Wait, what? No.

Then this morning I see the line should have been windows with an s. Phew.
posted by cashman at 6:04 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Everyone in this town needs to Look At The Flowers.
posted by yonega at 6:57 AM on March 16, 2015 [7 favorites]


Aiden and Noah's deaths were horrifyingly awful. I kept thinking why the hell didn't they just put a bullet in Aiden's head? It seemed like they had the opportunity to give him a quick, humane death right before the zombie horde did their thing. Ugh.
posted by hush at 7:11 AM on March 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


When they brought out his "death mask" or whatever the dummy is called that they used for the scene of him getting killed, that squicked Tyler out. Unless I'm forgetting someone, the last time they did that was when they brought out the death mask for IronE Singleton (T-Dog) and joked about that, although they were at least a bit more reverent. But it's these little moments where you dehumanize black men that get noticed.

Also, all three of them were saying that the actual scene was just way too gruesome for a lot of people on set to watch. If the people who put together the fakery that made it possible find it a little too affecting, that says something.

But I don't think it was the gore that really got to me as much as Tyler James Williams' facial acting in the scene. I think that's why I had to look away. Which makes it all the more shameful that he's not in the cast anymore.

Also, as I've mentioned in other FanFare threads, I have describe relevant visual detail to my better half, who's blind. So the live description of Noah's death scene was something like:

"Okay, so the walkers on the inside of the revolving door have a hold of Noah. Glenn's trying to pull him back - oh, fuck they got him. He's on the other side of the glass -"

"Are they biting him?"

"His eyes are wide with terror and he's pressing up against the glass just inches from Glenn....one of them just sank its teeth into his shoulder...oh fuck. OH FUCK! JESUS CHRIST!"

"What's happening?

"No fucking idea. I just stopped looking."

*looks back up at the TV*

"OH FUCK!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:26 AM on March 16, 2015 [10 favorites]


The bathtub & baseball bat scene from Terminus was much harder to watch than any amount of zombie gore ever could be.
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:50 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


The bathtub & baseball bat scene from Terminus was much harder to watch than any amount of zombie gore ever could be.

I agree.

It was easier to describe, though.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:52 AM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


Unfortunately most of the good stuff in the episode was overshadowed, for me, by the fact that they decided to kill of yet another very promising black male character. Seriously, TWD: you have a problem.

I was particularly disappointed in Noah's death after that earlier scene, because I think Deanna's husband (I forget his name) is probably the most interesting character amongst the Alexandrians, and Noah wanted to know things I wanted to know, like how that wall got built in the first place and how you could do it again. Seriously, insofar as knowledge is still valuable that guy has probably the most valuable brain of anybody who has ever been on this show ever, but nobody in our group besides Noah seems to give a shit.

Other thoughts:
The more heavily this show implies that Doctor Drunk is beating his wife, without actually unequivocally showing us that he beats his wife, the more convinced I become that something else is going on there.

Abraham was great. Glen was great. I expected Aiden to last longer and get more opportunity to be a dick, but I almost outright LOLed at the military-armored-zombie (high level zombies! says the DM). I did find myself wondering if modern military grenades really do explode when shot; that seems more like a TV and action movie trope than a thing that is actually real, but I don't actually know.

Showing up without Aiden will certainly escalate things, especially since Aiden's buddies story is unlikely to match up with Glen and Eugene's. I could also see Doctor Drunk failing to save Tara (because he's a fuckin' drunk) and that leading to a direct confrontation with Rick. OTOH maybe they've chewed through enough characters lately to get the cast size down, and they want Doctor Drunk to have a moment to prove his actual value. (Besides, Tara's not a black guy, so she's not automatically doomed!)
posted by mstokes650 at 8:02 AM on March 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


Why did Gabriel tear apart the Bible at the beginning of the episode? It made sense to me at the time (sort of) since he had burned his collar and seemed to be having a crisis of faith. I sort of assumed that was a continuation of that and he was having a freakout after getting the strawberry gift from the nice neighbor lady who thinks he is a legit priest. But then when he showed up at the end to Deanna as a fundamentalist devil-warning weirdo, it seemed like an inexplicable 180 for me in terms of his faith. Did his arc in the episode make sense to anyone else?
posted by gatorae at 8:29 AM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


I did find myself wondering if modern military grenades really do explode when shot; that seems more like a TV and action movie trope than a thing that is actually real, but I don't actually know.

Like usual, Mythbusters has the answer. I believe Aiden was using some sort of machine gun with a gigantic silencer.

This show really loves to forecasts its deaths, so when Aiden seemingly learned his lesson and agreed to scout the outside of the building before running in carelessly we knew he was a goner. Not to mention Noah's hopeful future.

The scene where Tobin (think that's his name) went to Deanna and resigned his post in favor of Abraham just didn't make any sense. Nothing we'd seen from him indicated he was a humble, self aware man, nor that he was wily enough to get out of dangerous construction duty in that manner.

And why did Deanna suddenly start having issues with putting Rick's group in positions of authority? She appointed Maggie as her understudy. She created a constable position and made not one, but two of the group law keepers. She was grateful to have Glenn take over the lead role in gathering. But construction foreman is a step too far?

Why did Gabriel tear apart the Bible at the beginning of the episode?

I want to say he first did that when they were still in his church, after Rick & Co. murdered the cannibals.
posted by 2ht at 8:34 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm really hoping that Tara survives, because she seems to be the only character written to have an emotional range wider than just swinging between sad and angry all the time. She hasn't really been on screen much for the last few episodes; like Gabriel, I think that the writers mostly forget that she's there until they need her for something specific.

Poor Noah. Every time he was on-screen reminded me of how much I hated the story that introduced him, so I'm glad that's over, but he was well-acted and promising.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:34 AM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


Gabriel's whole character makes no sense to me. He seems like he's just a tool for whatever the show wants to happen in certain episodes. He seems to always sport that same look and I guess maybe him and Eugene are playing Good Coward-Bad Coward?

I want to say he first did that when they were still in his church, after Rick & Co. murdered the cannibals.

That makes sense. I was kind of disappointed that they only alluded to it being a bible and were afraid to show the cover.
posted by cashman at 8:35 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Take the "Too Many Spider-Men" song from Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt; replace "spider" with "black". This is what I imagine the Walking Dead writers' room sounding like.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:41 AM on March 16, 2015


the more convinced I become that something else is going on there

Yeah, good point - so the twist is that Mom is the abuser? That's why she acts like a cat toying with a mouse around Rick? The little boy ran out of Carol's house before blurting out that the gun was for his father's self-defense? Doc offering Rick a beer was a desperate cry for help?
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:54 AM on March 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


[Please don't talk about stuff in previews for the next episode in the current episode thread; the goal is to keep these spoiler-free, regardless of whether the network decided to air promos for future content at the end.]
posted by cortex at 9:48 AM on March 16, 2015 [5 favorites]


Arg. Sorry.
posted by Mogur at 10:09 AM on March 16, 2015


My favorite moment is when Carol realizes that the kid (can't remember his name) might be trainable, and sets a test for him (steal the chocolate).
posted by Mogur at 10:45 AM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


I liked the chocolate scene too, and thought she might be trying to undercut the kid's credibility if he ever tries to tattle on her just in case he is caught as a chocolate thief. My favorite Carol scene was when NewCarol and OldCarol collided at the moment she realized that her annoying little pest is an abuse victim. The shift in her demeanor from "OMG this kid is the WORST what the fuck is wrong with him that my scary story didn't scare him away!?!?" to "Oh. I know this look. He doesn't find me scary because he knows real fear, just like I did with Ed." was fantastic acting.
posted by gatorae at 10:53 AM on March 16, 2015 [21 favorites]


"That's why [The Mom] acts like a cat toying with a mouse around Rick?"

No way. I really disagree that Jessie (aka "The Mom") "acts like a cat" in this so-called cat and mouse scenario some of you are seeing, not by a long shot. Jessie is seriously just being nice and neighborly - but because she is an attractive woman Rick has latched onto suddenly we're doing the thing where we start wondering if she is the one being tricky and manipulative? Hell no - pretty sure you've got that exactly backwards: Crazy Rick is the boundary-crossing pursuer and the existence of this awkward dynamic is all on him, right down to the surprise kiss he gave Jessie at the party, to cornering Jessie in her garage - Rick is the one causing the drama here (and it is no coincidence that Pete suddenly showed up in Rick's house, drunkenly cajoling Rick into being his friend, when initially, from his porch, Pete wouldn't give Rick the time of day. Pete clearly knows Rick wants Jessie.) Whether Jessie is amenable to Rick's pursuit is of course an open question. But to suggest that Jessie is the one creating this Rick drama seems baseless.

For the record, I refuse to believe for even a moment that Carol's instincts about domestic violence matters are ever going to be wrong.
posted by hush at 11:21 AM on March 16, 2015 [8 favorites]


Yeah, good point - so the twist is that Mom is the abuser?

Love this, so yes, 1 ticket please for the TEAM PORCH DICK train.

But then when he showed up at the end to Deanna as a fundamentalist devil-warning weirdo, it seemed like an inexplicable 180 for me in terms of his faith. Did his arc in the episode make sense to anyone else?

In honor of today being International Fuck You Gabriel Day, I spent a considerable amount of shower time pondering this very thing, I'm just giving up on Gabriel having any sort of consistent motivation in his character development, and going with WWDD:
"You're not wrong, Gabriel, you're just an asshole."

And that scene with the Bible was totally puzzling. Why was he putting a sheet of wax paper in his Bible? Was he about to press flowers in his new Bible, or was he pulling a Thomas Jefferson and editing out the bits he doesn't like?

I mean, I think he was mad at Bible because Rick is the Devil's handpicked bully who is superpopular and Bible makes people like Rick better than Gabriel and because Rick has an awesome machete and is not afraid to use it, and the subjects of the Ricktatorship all know that Gabriel is bad at Bibling, of which Gabriel doesn't want to be reminded, but there's no context for any of that until the last scene with Deanna.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:31 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


I honestly would have preferred that the preacher had a scene where he was meeting with some of the older folks and trying to put on a brave face, yet communicating conflict with his eyes. But this show goes for easy every now and then, and this was one of those times.
posted by Catblack at 11:44 AM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Yeah, my theory about Jessie is so crazy that even I don't really believe it. I think I misinterpreted "deer in the headlights" (because omg THAT GUY won't just GO AWAY he is going to get me BEAT UP EVEN MORE THAN USUAL) as "playful predator".

I presumed the wax paper was Step 1 in repairing a slight tear in the page. But then I also presumed that he tore up the Bible because his conscious was singing the screams of his flock to him and HOW CAN I EVER EAT A STRAWBERRY AGAIN? when apparently he was guilty about not selling out his only friends.
posted by Rat Spatula at 12:20 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


When [Morgan] finally shows up, the priest won't be there for long.

Dare to dream.

I disliked aspects of this episode less than some of you, I think, but I disagree that the Noah the Architect scene was only about foretelling his death. There was more there about the Alexandrites not really taking seriously the idea that this is as good as it gets from now on.

Oh, you're in it for the long haul? Well, yeah, and why the fuck aren't you? No continuity planning? I'll still be here and around when you're my age my ass. You've dropped back 75 years in medical care and are subsisting significantly on foraged canned stuff, so presuming you'll be ramming around at 80 is way optimistic, bub.

I don't know that it was lampshaded enough to be intentional on this show, but it did seem to indicate that these people still don't quite get it; nobody's coming around to rescue you.

She was grateful to have Glenn take over the lead role in gathering. But construction foreman is a step too far?

I didn't think Glenn was taking over anything, just that he'd knocked the kiddo down a peg. Obviously not too much, if he's blaring music in the field. What the shit was that about?

I do wonder why the survivors, including Eugene MacGuyver, haven't started making some use of boom boxes or strobe lights. They had one minor and probably ineffectual use of a flare, but why don't they drop some sort of point-source for audio to attract away crowds?
posted by phearlez at 1:27 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Do you want a herd? Because that's how you get a herd.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:41 PM on March 16, 2015 [7 favorites]


It seems like it would be a good idea to do tens of miles away from your home base. Draw all the surrounding zombies to the large noises far away.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:47 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


And speaking of things we wish were happening on the show, why isn't Rick organizing something to teach these people how to fight? Like Maggie said, they know what they are doing. It seems that it would be in the best interest of all of Alexandria for them to get some training from these skilled and experienced fighters.

If you're a smart person, surrounded by weak idiots whose dumb decisions could very well kill you, better teach those people something so they're not weak idiots anymore!
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:52 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Do you want a herd? Because that's how you get a herd.

How to get a Herd in Advertising.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:54 PM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


I also thought that they had way too much trouble killing walkers. It's been 2 or 3 years now at this point, and they know how to kill them. I realize that after a while even the most mundane tasks like taking out the garbage and vacuuming the living room get tiresome and unnecessarily arduous, and that's on top of these people suffering from all sorts of stress and poor nutrition.

But still - carry something moderately long (a yard) that is pointy. When Noah and Glenn were trapped in the revolving door, they should have just been able to poke the walkers in the head through the opening. It's been done before 3 or 4 times already on the show.
posted by cashman at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


But still - carry something moderately long (a yard) that is pointy. When Noah and Glenn were trapped in the revolving door, they should have just been able to poke the walkers in the head through the opening. It's been done before 3 or 4 times already on the show.

I know, right? It also really annoys me that they keep shooting lone walkers when they could just machete them with very little risk. Ammo is a finite resource! Conserve it!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:07 PM on March 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


The zombie canon dictates that any effort to attract zombies with loud music and lights must necessarily involve Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now."
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:09 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


No, surely it would be "Stayin' Alive"!
posted by Mogur at 3:14 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


mstokes650: (Besides, Tara's not a black guy, so she's not automatically doomed!)

Girl's a lesbian, I'm amazed she's lasted this long.
posted by Iteki at 3:21 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


>I do wonder why the survivors, including Eugene MacGuyver, haven't started making some use of boom boxes or strobe lights. They had one minor and probably ineffectual use of a flare, but why don't they drop some sort of point-source for audio to attract away crowds?

I assume they have no budget for music... and this is the sort of thing we'll see more of in the LA based spin off.
posted by Catblack at 3:43 PM on March 16, 2015


why isn't Rick organizing something to teach these people how to fight?

I don't think he WANTS them to know how to fight.

I'm kinda hoping that the Big Bad this season turns out to be Rick and crew, with the Alexandrites as their victims. That would be a fun twist.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:12 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


Regarding the Bible, my husband and I noticed that Gabriel ended up ripping out the entire second half and thus we wondered if he had something against the New Testament in particular?
posted by Jacqueline at 5:15 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


I just thought it was that he was right handed. But I guess the wax paper makes some sense if that was a marker for the separation between the two? It's sad that it was the entire intro, and thanks to the poor storytelling, I just don't care.
posted by cashman at 5:19 PM on March 16, 2015


I am honestly completely at a loss for how this show expects me to believe that Rick worries that the locals are too soft, when he's been willingly dragging Eugene and Gabriel around for months.

Actually, as per the timeline, only 31 days elapsed between when they left the prison (day 504) and when the group arrived in Alexandria (day 531). Rick met Eugene on day 511 and Gabriel on day 512 and it's only day 540-something now, so he hasn't known either of them that long at all.

I think it's helpful to keep in mind that while it's been 20 episodes spread out over a year for us since the Governor attacked the prison, it's only been ~5 weeks for the characters. Remembering how much shit they've been through over such a short period of time makes me feel a lot more sympathetic to how twitchy and irrational they're being.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:32 PM on March 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


...carrying something moderately long (a yard)

This has been driving me nuts, too. They've come across plenty of found material over time that could be easily sharpened (and resharpened) against a convenient piece of concrete, or a rock, or whatever. That should be the default weapon, and everyone in the group should have one on their back at all times. I mean, Michonne's weapon of choice, based on its length, tells everyone how wise that is. The knife is the backup.

Also, Tyrese had that hammer on his belt always. That would have served them exceptionally well in the revolving door situation.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]



Actually, as per the timeline, only 31 days elapsed between when they left the prison (day 504) and when the group arrived in Alexandria (day 531). Rick met Eugene on day 511 and Gabriel on day 512 and it's only day 540-something now, so he hasn't known either of them that long at all.


Further, Gabriel has basically only seen Rick and Co. a) save his worthless life when he was surrounded by walkers b) defend themselves from the last remaining Termites, who ATE BOB'S LEG and wanted and tried to kill and eat the rest of them, and c) save Noah from the hospital. And then protect him (Gabriel) and keep him alive on the way to Washington. So his betrayal of them is confusing - he hasn't actually seen them do anything terrible.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


Here's my take on why the showrunners were showing us Gabriel ripping out/rejecting the New Testament specifically, and then intentionally betraying Rick & Crew a la the Judas of New Testament fame.

If the God of the Old Testament is all about "chosen people" who will have eternal life vs. the rest of the people who are not chosen and who will get all the Rapture-tastic fire and brimstone-- that's perhaps sort of consistent with the (God-ordained?) outcome so far of Gabriel's opportunistic selfishness and treachery, as well as maybe the experience of Deanna and the people who are "chosen" to live in Alexandria, no? We've heard talk of Alexandrians casting people out presumably to die before, and in this ep we saw two of them actively leaving people behind in order to save themselves. Which is exactly how Gabriel rolls, too. Another thing Gabriel has in common with Deanna & Crew is that they have all literally been so sheltered (by the walls, and by the locked-down church) from the real zombie world out there so as to seemingly not even know what the stakes really are, and what "good people" can and must to to survive (even as Deanna pays lip service to Rick's initial videotaped account of that.) It's their version of some holier-than-thou shit, really.

However, in the New Testament, we have Jesus Christ's way of sacrificing himself so that others -- straight up sinners!--- can be saved. So yeah, which of the 2 groups does that sound more like here? Not perfectly, but Rick & crew of course. The Alexandrians would have ejected Gabriel and Eugene immediately, but look how Christ-like the Rick group has been towards them thus far. We have two vastly different codes to live by, and I think the point of Gabriel's power play against Rick & Co is to begin to highlight some of the similarities Gabriel and the Alexandrians share. In a sense, I wonder if Gabriel hasn't finally found His People in the Alexandrians.
posted by hush at 5:57 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


But still - carry something moderately long (a yard) that is pointy. When Noah and Glenn were trapped in the revolving door, they should have just been able to poke the walkers in the head through the opening. It's been done before 3 or 4 times already on the show.

And unless I am totally mixing up the comic and the show, it was part of the regular practice at the prison in order to keep down the fence-pushers. Practically became routine, and was a rotated job. So Glenn for sure would be familiar with it.

It's just so dumb. You're in an enclosed space with these walking threats and you could poke em in the eyeball now or leave them around and just hope the fence is sufficiently intact to keep them off you.
posted by phearlez at 6:35 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


You're absolutely right phearlez - in the show they show chainlink fence duty. Spike + hammer ==> Roamer Head = squish. Cart them away when activity is low. Heck, isn't that where Glenn foraged a wedding ring for Maggie?

The scene where the roamers woke up behind a chainlink fence, I was going - ok, so they they do the inefficient stab or are they carrying something to hammer with? Nope. Neither. wth.

Add in the Gabriel scene and this is like a "stupid people making stupid decisions" horror movie.

If Maggie had a gram of sense, she'd confess to Deanna that she had overheard Gabriel's rantings and provide The Group's version of things. Specifically bring up that the worst of what they did, they did to terrible people in order to save The Group. Follow up with that The Group is starting to feel more like an Alexandrite (without bringing up that The Group will have essentially executed a hostile takeover of the leadership) - then bring up grievances or requests that suggest that The Group desires more intimate integration into Alexandrite society.

I can't tell is Carole is genuinely being... stupid?.. annoyed? lazy? willfully blind? about the kid situation. Given the background and leadup, I'm super into this arc and want to know how it resolves. I wonder if Carole might take ex-hairstylist out of play if Carole gets Mr. ex-hairstylist... sorry, WTH. Carole asks Rick to off his crush's husband who is a medical doctor. His competency hasn't been demonstrated, though. (I think that in a post-apocalyptic world you want EMTs and Emergency Ward doctors instead of (most) GPs or pediatricians. Hell, a competent scientist in the life sciences could do more good post-apocalypse medicine than most "family doctors.")
posted by porpoise at 7:09 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


LizBoBiz Draw all the surrounding zombies to the large noises far away.

Precisely. Or have the attraction source off of a boom out over a large cliff with a pit at the bottom. Line pit with fuel, light on fire whenever there's enough roamers fallen in to make it a worthwhile expenditure.

Hook in a remote on/off for the attraction source. No fuss, no muss. If you get a herd, lure them there, and fire them away once en-pitted.

why isn't Rick organizing something to teach these people how to fight?

The Alexandrites don't want to fight, much less learn how to (as exemplified by the general cowardice of the Alexandrites). Deanna (the leader) is against Alexandrites being armed and against having sentries/sniper-tower. Is she naive or is there a reason for being generally unarmed?

--

Another thing about this episode; yes. Chekhov's Gun. But do you have to Chekhov's Gun everything that's going to happen? Obnoxious van blasting bad techno, later drawing away a horde to save Glenn. Gabriel fiddling his God stuff and then The Group is Satan! Broken Owl statue ~ Rick's Investigation ~ Carole worried about the former-hairdressers re: Broken Owl. Eugene confessing again to Tara that he's a coward, only to show that he can overcome that (for her).

Speaking of Eugene - he's not fit for the field, but he definitely demonstrated his potential worth by identifying the component that they needed from the warehouse to fix Alexandria's solar electricity generating system. Only the part looked like a wireless router (as opposed to a kilo/megawatt inverter or something). Anyways, I'm not sold on Eugene's technical knowledge - I think that this might be another one of his fibs.
posted by porpoise at 7:38 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


The boxes in the warehouse were labelled micro-inverter.
posted by rdr at 8:26 PM on March 16, 2015 [3 favorites]


What did Aidan scream? Something like, "You're just like the others, they didn't panic either, it was us, we panicked?"
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:33 PM on March 16, 2015


I thought the bat-and-knife scenes at the trough in Terminus were difficult to watch. Seeing Noah and Aiden die the way they did, I had to pause the recording (I work on Sundays, so I have to DVR each episode) because it was so horrific.

That said, it's going to be interesting to see how things play out over the final two episodes for this season. One thing that caught my attention was Rick toying with his wedding band after his conversation with Pete. I couldn't tell if he actually took it off, or was just considering it. It's telling that Rick has continued wearing the ring even after Lori's death - is it possible he's actually thinking about removing it?
posted by Telpethoron at 8:36 PM on March 16, 2015


Gabriel annoys me so, so much. Maybe I shouldn't hope for a realistic pastor character on TV, but this is not someone who could have ever become an Episcopal priest. Administrative/leadership skills? Zero. Warm, approachable people skills? None. Clear Biblical scholarship and thinking? Obviously not. This guy is about a first semester seminary dropout and priests like him do not exist. They just don't. It would be like trying to accept Rick as a former sherrif but he refuses to carry a gun, knows nothing about self-defense, and always backs away from danger. Nothing about Gabriel says "priest."

It's not because they can't write a realistic Christian character. Herschel was great. And maybe if Gabriel were in some random fundy sect where you can drop out of high school and take up pastoring, I could kind of see it, except those guys are always outgoing hugger types or headstrong alpha leaders. Everything about Gabriel's character is just off.

Also: where did he get another clerical collar? Does he just keep a spare around. Or am I supposed to believe that someone on a priest's salary was buying an $800,000 house and left his work clothes in the closet when they were evacuated?

/righteous rant of the ordained seminary grad
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:48 PM on March 16, 2015 [14 favorites]


"Hey Rick, why don't you bring your kids by for a checkup?" That has a whole new meaning now.
posted by cardboard at 8:49 PM on March 16, 2015


What did Aidan scream? Something like, "You're just like the others, they didn't panic either, it was us, we panicked?"

Yeah, that's about it. He was taking responsibility for the previous supply runners getting killed, the ones that he told Glenn screwed up by not following his orders. Apparently that wasn't at all how it went down.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:52 PM on March 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


I liked Noah, and am irritated by his gratuitous death.

I didn't see the teaser at the end of the show, and would be grateful if someone could PM me a brief synopsis. (I did watch the sneak peek on the AMC site, but that's usually different.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:40 PM on March 16, 2015


There are two episodes left in the season. I guess it's clear now that the season finale cliffhanger will involve a conflict between Rick's group and the Alexandrites. Maybe not an outright war between the two factions, but perhaps a trying situation that turns into a full-blown crisis because of the divisions and distrust between them. (Thus we all learn an important lesson about community and cooperation.)

Most of this episode seemed to be setting the stage for that schism, actually. Carol and Rick hatching a conspiracy against Pete; Gabriel trying to turn Deanna against the group; a scavenging run that resulted in deaths on both sides (one which gives Deanna ample reason to distrust the group, and another which gives the group ample reason to distrust Nicholas).

Abraham stepping up on the construction site is the exception. Although even that could sow seeds of division—maybe some Alexandrites resent an outsider coming in, bossing people around and taking (what they see as) unnecessary risks, and (as the icing on the cake) getting put in charge?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:00 PM on March 16, 2015


Precisely. Or have the attraction source off of a boom out over a large cliff with a pit at the bottom. Line pit with fuel, light on fire whenever there's enough roamers fallen in to make it a worthwhile expenditure.

and

But still - carry something moderately long (a yard) that is pointy.

This is my biggest problem with this show. Know what the zombies are? They're predators. Like wolves or bears or mountain lions. Only STUPIDER and LESS DANGEROUS.

Do you know what happens when a non-technological society of humans goes up against a huge number of dumb predators? They invent things like long pointy sticks and pits with fires in them. And before you know it, the predators are on the verge of going extinct.

My theory is that the entire western half of the US has figured this out and is rebuilding society after wiping out the last of the zombies. Rick and crew just found themselves in the wrong place...
posted by mmoncur at 1:17 AM on March 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


I liked Francine, I hope she sticks around.
posted by oulipian at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is my biggest problem with this show. Know what the zombies are? They're predators. Like wolves or bears or mountain lions. Only STUPIDER and LESS DANGEROUS.

They're coming this way! Very slowly, mind you, and they'll fall into the pits we just dug, but THEY'RE COMING THIS WAY!

It's worth noting that Morgan was able to hold his own as a one man show because his compound was bristling with pointy sticks and scavenged metal that you had to thread your way through to get it. The walkers all just impaled or snared themselves on them on the way in so he could leisurely collect them in a shopping cart and dump them.

Morgan has it all figured out, man.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:05 AM on March 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


Carol should publish her cookie recipe.

SHE DID.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:31 AM on March 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


I guess I'm the only person who thought the prosthetic Noah head was only slightly better than the Arnold Schwarzenegger head from the end of Total Recall?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:50 AM on March 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


Also, Melissa McBride posted a series of pics of her making said cookies on Twitter the night that ep aired. Here's one.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:43 AM on March 17, 2015


The down side of Morgan's system of course is that virtually any living human could walk through his traps with no trouble at all and kill him while he slept.

Also... the walkers may be dumber than other predators, like say, mountain lions. But then, mountain lions and similar predators do not often travel in packs of several hundred or thousand. Thus, walkers present unique challenges.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:45 AM on March 17, 2015


I didn't mind politician's son being eaten alive. But Noah? If I wanted to see someone's face eaten off while they were still screaming, it would not be Noah.
posted by angrycat at 10:52 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


The down side of Morgan's system of course is that virtually any living human could walk through his traps with no trouble at all and kill him while he slept.

Oh, completely agree. Was just using it as an example of how lo-fi walker defences are totally effective.

A walker onslaught is all about the quantity of the adversary, not the quality. So those pits better be deep.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:00 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


12 year old me would have been all "AWESOME!!!" in response to Aiden's and Noah's death scenes. Older me looked away from the screen in disgust and hoped like hell his kids wouldn't choose those moments to get up out of bed and wander on silent feet into the living room.

I feel like they wasted excellent potential with Noah. I think the actor had another gig lined up and had to leave the show -- wise to keep pursuing other job opportunities when you're not a Tier 1 character on this show -- but, man, they could have gone to a number of great places with the character.

I think there's also vast potential for Gabriel, believe it or not. I would like to see a leveling up path for a character that doesn't involve going from waste of space to deadly close quarters combatant. For example, going from waste of space to calm, confident voice of reason and faith (e.g., Dale, Hershel). Gabriel seems the best candidate for that route right now.

I don't understand why Rick is so sprung for Jessie. She seems decent enough...but not worth all that he's considering putting at risk to be with her. Maybe I'm just cynical about it because I'm a Michonne & Rick shipper though.

Finally, I'm starting to get a Morlocks/Eloi feeling about the Alexandrians' relationship to the world. And I can't help but wonder if Janeway wanted "rough men and women" like the Grimes Group in place to take care of her Morlock problem....
posted by lord_wolf at 11:06 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Another thing about this episode; yes. Chekhov's Gun. But do you have to Chekhov's Gun everything that's going to happen? Obnoxious van blasting bad techno, later drawing away a horde to save Glenn. Gabriel fiddling his God stuff and then The Group is Satan! Broken Owl statue ~ Rick's Investigation ~ Carole worried about the former-hairdressers re: Broken Owl. Eugene confessing again to Tara that he's a coward, only to show that he can overcome that (for her)."

The show's very formulaic in this way. Many ways, really. That's why it's a guilty pleasure, sometimes boring show for me. Much of the writing is by the numbers in these general ways, like this example, or according to patterns particular to this show, long-established. But this is a feature, not a bug, to much of the audience and even to those of us who consciously don't like it, we still sort of do because this sort of predictability in a television show is like that whole "old, comfortable sweater" thing. If other aspects of the writing are occasionally pretty good, and the acting is okay, then this makes for a pretty successful show, ratings-wise.

"It's worth noting that Morgan was able to hold his own as a one man show because his compound was bristling with pointy sticks and scavenged metal that you had to thread your way through to get it."

It's just weird (though arguably unsurprising about human nature) that most people in this world haven't re-learned all about pre-gunpowder weaponry. The sort of exception is Michonne and her katana, except that really isn't the best weapon for this purpose. Well, in-universe, it seems to be pretty great, what with slicing through bone like butter and never getting stuck.

The main weapon that they should be using/reinventing is variations on the spear or polearm, particularly one that's reversible such that a blunt end can be used to keep a zombie safely at bay (they might just slide along from the pointy end), and the other end a spear or a cutting edge. Zombies represent very regular, predictable threats and after this amount of time dealing with them, anyone who's survived would have settled upon a widely understood set of tactics and weapons. As already mentioned, they'd be easy to trap and you'd end up taking care of 70% of your local zombie infestation just by building and maintaining traps. You'd have a method and weapon(s) for dealing with a zombies one-on-one, and others for one-against-many, working as a couple or in a small team, and many-against-many. People would have figured this shit out. Guns are crappy weapons for this because they're useless unless it's a head shot and they run out of ammo and require lots of maintenance. Small blades like knives and hatchets mean that the zombies get close enough to bite. Swords really wouldn't work that well, but on this show they do. The weapons that would work best have been completely absent from the show.

But, you know. This isn't the sort of narrative that's built around a reasonable and carefully constructed premise. And as many people have argued in the past, realistic slow zombies would probably just be boring.

Still. I'd like to see a polearm. Or at least a spear.

Oh, another thing -- the weakness of this Alexandria premise and the similar ones that preceded it are the people ignoring the show's canon that people turn into zombies when they die. And people do die, from natural causes and from accidents. No external barrier will protect against that; you'll always have the risk of an internal outbreak. You'd have to maintain a number of procedures to do anything about it and those would preclude a lot of pre-zombie "normal" life.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:08 AM on March 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


Speaking of medieval weapons, I loved how there was a flail conveniently lying around the construction site for Abraham to use. Lord knows I stumble across those at least twice a week.
posted by gatorae at 11:41 AM on March 17, 2015 [10 favorites]


Yeah, no gated community is safe because everyone is a potential zombie. That the people in Alexandria haven't twigged to that is sloppy writing or forgetfulness on somebody's part. Sure, Rick, put somebody on the tower, but could we also lock everyone into their homes at night, too? I realize that didn't work in the prison but it was still a good idea.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 12:02 PM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh, another thing -- the weakness of this Alexandria premise and the similar ones that preceded it are the people ignoring the show's canon that people turn into zombies when they die.

I actually find it entirely believable that the Alexandrites may have no idea that this is the case. There may be nobody there who has seen someone die by any other mechanism than zombie. I could even believe that they might not be aware that zombie bite is fatal if they've never seen someone escape an attack.
posted by phearlez at 12:44 PM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


The weapons that would work best have been completely absent from the show.

I have zero doubt that Anton Chigurh is living a peaceful life in a very effective way.
posted by phearlez at 12:47 PM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


A boar spear would be ideal. Something with a cross-bar that prevents the zombie from just sliding up the shaft of the spear if it (for example) got hit in the chest. Then your buddy stakes it with their spear while you hold the zombie in place.

Sorry, hold the walker in place.
posted by Mogur at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


Is it possible that the Alexandrans don't know WE'RE THE WALKING DEAD? *breaks the fourth wall, stares at the viewer/reader*
posted by entropicamericana at 12:51 PM on March 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


wait, why did carol say kill the guy? Why can't he go to some sort of jail?
posted by angrycat at 2:21 PM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


I actually find it entirely believable that the Alexandrites may have no idea that this is the case. There may be nobody there who has seen someone die by any other mechanism than zombie. I could even believe that they might not be aware that zombie bite is fatal if they've never seen someone escape an attack.

One of the least believable things about The Walking Dead is that people don't really spend any time talking about walkers. Like, everyone just seems to assume that everyone they meet has the same base level of knowledge that they do. I'm constantly baffled that when the Grimes crew runs into another group of non-hostiles, the very first thing that they do isn't an exchange of all possible information about the walking dead, their capabilities, theories about their origins, clever defense or avoidance tactics, etc.

It's like the "there's no time to explain" bullshit of Lost, but magnified.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:45 PM on March 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


A boar spear would be ideal. Something with a cross-bar that prevents the zombie from just sliding up the shaft of the spear if it (for example) got hit in the chest. Then your buddy stakes it with their spear while you hold the zombie in place.

Two words: man catcher!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:49 PM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think Carol just figures it'll go the same way things did with Ed. You'll just have a resentful person out there, and with no real law enforcement or social order (in a major way) to reinforce that the guy can't just do what he wants to and claim "this is my family", it'll just result in a shootout.
posted by cashman at 2:49 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


> Why did Gabriel tear apart the Bible at the beginning of the episode?

Wasn't he tearing out everything post-Genesis? I guess that kinda makes sense now civilisation's been erased.

> the weakness of this Alexandria premise and the similar ones that preceded it are the people ignoring the show's canon that people turn into zombies when they die. And people do die, from natural causes and from accidents. No external barrier will protect against that; you'll always have the risk of an internal outbreak. You'd have to maintain a number of procedures to do anything about it and those would preclude a lot of pre-zombie "normal" life.

This is one of the reasons why I'm still annoyed (not from a narrative point of view, just a zombie survival strategy one) that the group abandoned the prison. They were idiots to think the value of the prison lay in those fragile, easily-knocked-over wire fences. The value of the prison was in its lockable cells*, which I still can't believe they never fully utilised. In this new world, all it takes is for one dude to die of a heart attack in his sleep, and then WHAM, you're all zombies by sun up. Protocol should've been: everyone locks themselves into their cell at night. It's not hard, people.

* Oh, and the great big fucking concrete walls? Seriously, fuck those fences. They should've dug some pits and moats and shit. I'm still mad.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 5:38 PM on March 17, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also, am I the only one who thought this episode felt kinda Day of the Dead inflected? The references seemed pretty subtle until this happened.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 5:50 PM on March 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


One of the least believable things about The Walking Dead is that people don't really spend any time talking about walkers.

Yeah, I get tripped up by this as well. It's just because if they were to act like people would "really" act, the show would just be endless exposition. Like when the Alexandrian-envoy came, there should have been a 3-4 hour conversation where everyone asks dozens of detailed questions about Alexandria. And everyone would constantly be trying to figure out if there was any form of civilization that still existed, trying to find better transmission stations, monitoring short-wave radio , theorizing whether or not the sickness would have infected islands like cuba, puerto rico or hawaii.

But that would be a boring show, and they'd have to answer all the questions that create drama. And they'd have to come up with interesting answers, which doesn't seem to be their strong suit.
posted by skewed at 6:31 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


It's probably the political scientist in me, but it constantly annoys me that exactly zero of these post apocalyptic communities have figured out that you have to actually establish yourself with clear rules and guidelines in order to function. They all just seem to be loose confederations, legally speaking, and that's never good with small, close-knit groups like this. I actually had hopes that politician lady would understand that you have to have a few actual laws to make this work, but thus far no dice. If there were actual laws, then Rick would have a defined role, and it'd be easier for us to sigh when Carol suggests killing that guy who drinks too much, because then we'd know that the real way to handle it is to have a trial, etc.

Which is pretty much already guaranteed when Glenn and Eugene return with dumbass, isn't it? So I guess at least we'll see what meager political foundations these folks have laid down.

Seriously, a really basic constitution would've take a day or two, tops...
posted by koeselitz at 10:06 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


How convenient that Rick's love interest is married to an abuser_who_must_be_killed. I really hope that there's something else going on or that something not completely obvious happens (like maybe Jessie dies before Rick can ride in on his white horse).

Jesus fucking Christ. There is seriously a black dude quota on this show. At this point they're just playing that up, it's so obvious. Noah was a great character played by a great actor and it's stupid.

Despite all that, I enjoyed this episode overall, it built up a lot of tension.

As for Gabriel, he's just trying to protect himself. Rick's group knows what he did, and he doesn't want to be exposed as a fraud to the Alexandrites. It's simple enough, and believable (if not entirely spelled out).
posted by natteringnabob at 4:57 AM on March 18, 2015


it constantly annoys me that exactly zero of these post apocalyptic communities have figured out that you have to actually establish yourself with clear rules and guidelines in order to function.

CLAIMED!
posted by gatorae at 6:05 AM on March 18, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'll forgive their lack of fortification skills as seems the outbreak occurred pre-Minecraft.
posted by digitalprimate at 6:41 AM on March 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


Next week's special guest star: Alexis de Tocqueville!
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:48 AM on March 18, 2015


Seriously, a really basic constitution would've take a day or two, tops...

Looks like Deanna has a pretty good library going - you could cherry pick the best parts of such documents from different political systems and do a mash-up of constitutional awesomeness. "Liberté, égalité, fuckin'-A!"

And while I agree with you 100 per cent, practically speaking you just know that some asshole is going to pipe up the minute he or she doesn't get his or her way and claim to be a "sovereign citizen." In other words, they'll happily eat your food and benefit from the protection of the group, but no way in hell are they gonna follow any of those "illegitimate" laws that are meant to prop the whole enterprise up.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:01 AM on March 18, 2015 [2 favorites]


"Hey, sovereign citizen. Carol wants to show you something over by the fence..."
posted by Mogur at 7:10 AM on March 18, 2015 [5 favorites]


Right or wrong, I can't help but think that a lot of people would have problems with TWD showing characters like Morgan, Michonne, Bob, Tyreese, Sasha, Gabriel, Noah, T-Dog, etc. using spears, no matter how practical the weapons may be in a zombie apocalypse.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:57 AM on March 18, 2015


I think if that's all that character was assigned to use, and it was a spear-looking spear, then sure. But that's far fetched really. Everybody has their weapon of choice that is effective and largely makes sense for one reason or another. And the backup weapon should or could be a sharp pointy thing a yard or two long. A spiked bat, a broken broomstick, something. It'd be cool as shit if Morgan popped up with a Scythe.
posted by cashman at 8:05 AM on March 18, 2015


I've always thought that a machete would be the most practical weapon for daily carry. It has decent reach, and it's heavy enough to cleave a skull in half—but it's small and light enough to carry on a belt. You can use it as a slicing/cleaving weapon, or (in close quarters) as a thrusting weapon. It's equally effective against walkers, humans, and animals (e.g., feral dogs). It's versatile—you can use it to clear vegetation, take apart small branches for kindling, cut rope or fabric or boxes, even as a prybar in a pinch. It requires less maintenance than a gun, and doesn't need ammunition. You can use it with one hand, keeping the other free for other uses. And, if it breaks, you can fairly easily find another in a garage, hardware store, or sporting goods store.

Speaking of dogs...shouldn't feral cats and packs of wild dogs be everywhere? We're a couple of years into this thing, and it seems like cats and dogs would be able to avoid zombies without much trouble.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:05 AM on March 18, 2015 [2 favorites]


For that matter, a whole variety of landscaping, gardening and farm tools would be very useful: pitchforks, axes, spades, scythes, edgers, and pretty much everything on a pole, but we hardly ever see them. I guess it's okay, since no one ever even runs low on ammunition.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 11:01 AM on March 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


Speaking of dogs...shouldn't feral cats and packs of wild dogs be everywhere? We're a couple of years into this thing, and it seems like cats and dogs would be able to avoid zombies without much trouble.

One got eaten at the beginning of something like season 3, I think. Then recently Rick and crew had some hot dogs for dinner, shall we say. So between natural starvation, walkers, and hungry hungry humans, it appears their ranks have grown thin.
posted by cashman at 11:10 AM on March 18, 2015


I figure that walkers are going to be pretty effective at keeping down the wildlife population, even for fast animals like deer and dogs. They're quite slow, but they have numbers, and their ability to defy the laws of entropy, so they can just slowly stalk their prey forever.
posted by skewed at 11:33 AM on March 18, 2015 [2 favorites]


For that matter, a whole variety of landscaping, gardening and farm tools would be very useful: pitchforks, axes, spades, scythes, edgers, and pretty much everything on a pole, but we hardly ever see them.

That we don't see more of them is pretty perplexing given that andscaping crews would have had a higher-than-average survival rate in the early going of a zombie apocalypse -- if you were a gardener or landscaper, and the shit hit the fan in the middle of your shift, you would have been pretty well (and sustainably) armed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:57 PM on March 18, 2015 [2 favorites]


If Alexandria was populated by golden retrievers and big fat cats I would find it absolutely endearing. And the prospect of its collapse terrifying. But I don't think shows (thankfully) go much into animal death. Well I guess there was Buttons.

But just think about it: the prez has a happily panting golden retriever? I mean, that dog could be a comfort dog for the PTSD of Sasha/Carol/Rick. Oh and what if Carl got a puppy when he came in?
How amazing would that be?
posted by angrycat at 4:39 PM on March 18, 2015


Wouldn't be so amazing when it barked to warn of danger, and just kept barking and more walkers heard it and kept coming, and the dog kept barking and the walkers kept coming. But I guess yappy dogs would already have not lasted long.
posted by cashman at 5:23 PM on March 18, 2015 [2 favorites]


Plus domestic dogs would just go crazy in this world because everyone says walker all the time. They'd have to start calling them w-a-l-k-ers.
posted by oulipian at 5:18 AM on March 19, 2015 [17 favorites]


oh, I forgot about parking. Given this morning my cat was going MEEEOOOOOOOW for food this morning, maybe no kitty cats either.

Although it would be a good way to show how stupid the Alexandrians are. When Rick and his group come in, it'd be all *everybody gets a puppy* and the Rick people do some side-eye and slowly back out the way they came.
posted by angrycat at 5:22 AM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


What's the deal with Maggie now? She just sort of... lurks. She never even seems to interact with the group.
posted by torisaur at 7:46 AM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


The gore in this episode is only shocking because it's the first really graphic depictions of people we know getting torn apart, up close and personal. Also, it's only shocking if you haven't desensitized yourself via Italian-style super-gore. If you're a fan of zombie films, you've seen a bunch of this, which leads me to ...

EXISTENZ IS PAUSED: Also, am I the only one who thought this episode felt kinda Day of the Dead inflected? The references seemed pretty subtle until this happened.

YES! Then again, my wife and I often say "Choke on it! CHOKE ON IT!" in various contexts.


The Man from Lardfork: For that matter, a whole variety of landscaping, gardening and farm tools would be very useful

The farmers and landscape maintainers shall inherit the earth. Those tools worked well enough in peasant uprisings, and the neo-pesants would fare better now that they're not facing off against trained soldiers in armor, who also have superior weapons.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:36 AM on March 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


Tremble before my mighty Garden Weasel!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:45 AM on March 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


filthy light thief: YES! Then again, my wife and I often say "Choke on it! CHOKE ON IT!" in various contexts.

The edit window is closed, so I will now clarify that I meant "Yes, I too saw the Day of the Dead references," not "Yes, you are the only one." (We also say "Sarah's research... Sarah's Research!" and "Say hello to your Aunt Alicia" ... then again, it's quite a quotable movie.)


torisaur: What's the deal with Maggie now? She just sort of... lurks. She never even seems to interact with the group.

This episode has confused me about the desires of the Alexandrians as a whole, or at least Deanna, for Rick's group. First, they were tracked and observed by Aaron and his boyfriend as they were sent out to invite more good people to Alexandria, then assigned roles by Deanna, who then was concerned about the positions of leadership now held by Rick's friends (most of which she assigned, right? Except for Sgt. Hatred, who saved the group on the construction site and kept them all working, when the cowardly lion wanted to tuck tail and run).

But who really holds leadership positions? Rick and Michonne, who were asked to be the town constable, and now Sgt. Hatred. Carol is a one of the home-makers, Maggie is being trained to be a community leader (but has been written into a role of ... silent watcher?). Eugene is still treated as a helpful science guy (though his lie about the hope of D.C. should have put the rest of his skills in question, especially when he clarified that he said anything that would keep is cowardly ass alive). I'm not clear on what Glenn, Tara, Rosita, and Noah do, besides general assistance and supply runs, but it doesn't seem like any of them are in real places of power. Sloppy writing, ahoy!


natteringnabob: As for Gabriel, he's just trying to protect himself. Rick's group knows what he did, and he doesn't want to be exposed as a fraud to the Alexandrites. It's simple enough, and believable (if not entirely spelled out).

I like this interpretation of Gabriel's actions, unless he has seriously cracked. He wasn't making a Jefferson bible, he was putting some great portion of it to the torch. Thomas Jefferson literally took a blade to the bible,
cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine.
If that bible destruction had any message beyond "I'm a fraud who closed the doors to my flock and let them get torn apart by the wolves, how can anyone find comfort in my presence?" It could have been a more subtle throwing away of the New Testament and keeping the Old, which seems subtle for the heavy-handed symbolism used elsewhere, except they also do a decent job linking to specific passages of the bible, so I know someone on the staff can make decent connections to biblical messages.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:05 AM on March 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


I just realized that every time the show turns to face Tara's sexuality in a less than oblique manner she almost dies.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:48 PM on March 19, 2015


Was Tara's sexuality referenced in this episode? I can't seem to recall it.
posted by Seamus at 12:41 PM on March 20, 2015


She asks about another woman and is teased about the nature of her interest. Right before they get into the van for the rave drive.
posted by phearlez at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Blurgh.
Now I recall. That's some shitty writing.

(I made the mistake of reading some TWD novels because my son got them for me for my birthday [and insisted that I read them]. There are some shared characters with seriously different background stories. Tara is one of them and the story in the book was so bad that I now have more of a liking for her character on the show. I hope she isn't killed off.
Also, I wouldn't suggest the books.)
posted by Seamus at 1:32 PM on March 20, 2015


I read the first trade paperback. I was unmoved. Then again, I've never understood the appeal of comics. I'm glad people dig them, but they're not for me—apparently not even when they're the source material for one of my favorite shows.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:04 PM on March 20, 2015


I think Seamus means one of the multiple (text-only) novelizations that now exist. I think Rise of the Governor was the first but there are several now.
posted by phearlez at 8:53 AM on March 21, 2015


Yep, novels. He got me "The Rise of the Governor" and "The Road to Woodbury".
I read the first and got through half of the second before I decided that I had read enough of the tolerable-at-best prose and the truly depressing storylines. An hour a week on the moving picture box is about all I can handle. Spreading that kind of negative bullshit through spare moments in my life was toxic. So I went back to drinking whiskey and reading alternate histories.
posted by Seamus at 9:17 AM on March 21, 2015


I missed it -- what was the construction crew doing? Was a part of the fence down? Wouldn't that be a major crisis? Or was Alexandria expanding?
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 9:50 AM on March 21, 2015


Yeah, they want to expand the wall. There was a brief conversation early on about how long they thought it would take to do the expansion this time vs. how long the last expansion took (so apparently they've even done this before).
posted by mstokes650 at 10:42 AM on March 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


So... they're building more $800k houses?
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 11:22 AM on March 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I assume they're enclosing more existing houses. And it's darling that you think houses like that go for as little as 800k in Alexandria VA.
posted by phearlez at 1:06 PM on March 21, 2015


Incidentally: how does Alexandria still have clean running tap water?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:06 PM on March 21, 2015


Cisterns, perhaps. Or solar powered well water. In reality they'd be drawing from municipal water in that area but there's lot of wells here.
Overview: Wells in Virginia
The majority of households in 60 of Virginia's 95 counties rely on private water supply systems. In 52 counties, the number of households using private wells is increasing faster than the number of households connecting to public water supply systems. Heaviest reliance on private water supply systems is outside urban centers in rural, non-agricultural areas, where new growth occurs beyond the extent of public water or sewer lines. Of the more than one million households in Virginia using private wells, 92 percent also use septic systems. (VADEQ, 2007,http://www.deq.virginia.gov/gwpsc)
posted by phearlez at 1:38 PM on March 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I assume they're enclosing more existing houses. And it's darling that you think houses like that go for as little as 800k in Alexandria VA.

Hmm. I didn't think I pulled that figure out of my large (yet shapely) ass. So I went back to the AMC site, pulled up the episode "Remember" and after watching too many Matthew McConnaghy, Geico and Red Bull ads, saw Deanna interview Rick and mention that this was a planned community ("the beginning of sustainability") and houses started in "the low 800 thousands, if there is such a thing."

So I think your complaint is with the darling writers not doing their research. I fully admit my ignorance of Greater DC Area real estate.

Full disclosure: my ignorance starts there and knows no bounds.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 2:33 PM on March 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Sorry if that read snarky, it was entirely bitterness at the out of control market here. But such a development in the Alexandria area - particularly given the premium features - would likely be more like 1.5M and up. If it is meant to be the outer edge of Alexandria and south towards Quantifo that would offset some but nowhere near enough to be 800k.
posted by phearlez at 8:11 PM on March 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Fair enough -- I too live in a ridiculously overheated real estate market.

But on the plus side -- no zombies!
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 10:32 PM on March 21, 2015


I too live in a ridiculously overheated real estate market but we DO have zombies.

Luckily, SXSW ends today and they will soon all be heading home.
posted by Seamus at 8:19 AM on March 22, 2015 [3 favorites]


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