Hannibal: Antipasto
June 4, 2015 8:01 PM - Season 3, Episode 1 - Subscribe

After the devastating bloodbath at Lecter's home Hannibal establishes a new life for himself in Italy along with the company of his own psychiatrist Bedelia.

FFFFFFFFFFJSLKJEFESJF WELP.

THAT WAS REAL PRETTY. I AM OKAY WITH BASICALLY NONE OF IT.
posted by sparkletone (253 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
I think I'll just keep that image of Mads in leathers with me as I go to my slumber tonight.
posted by Requiax at 8:03 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


As I was saying/flailing on Twitter, MY SHOW. IT IS STILL SO BEAUTIFUL AND SO FUCKED UP. I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

I was not expecting (flashback character) and may possibly have flailed so hard I spilled my ice cream. Because my Fancy Cannibal Murder Husbands Hour ice cream ritual is back on at my house.
posted by Stacey at 8:13 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


I just..... Oh my gerd... I just can't. You have the word " sumptuous". Then you have 12 million levels above that all twisted in with snails and blood and Mads and EVERYTHING ELSE!! I just don't even know. Y'all need to lay some serious fanfare taking apart of this episode pretty quickly if I have any chance of sleeping tonight. And snails. 🐌
posted by pearlybob at 8:18 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


GILLIAN SO PROMINENTLY IN THE CREDITS MADE MY HEART FLUTTER.

BON SOIR, MOTHERFUCKERS.
posted by sparkletone at 8:19 PM on June 4, 2015 [10 favorites]


Oh Hannibal! Squeeze! I just got dumped and murder husbands are a sweet sweet balm (which I should probably question about myself)
posted by kanata at 8:20 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]


Did anyone notice that, when the Parisian dude's wife walked into her apartment and saw Hannibal at her dinner table, the soundtrack did the first half of a sad trombone?

(i.e. just the Waa part of a a Waa-WAAaaaa.)
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:21 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


So many things to love about this episode.
Bonsoir? PERFECT.
Bedelia sipping a cognac while aiming a pistol at Naked Hannibal? PERFECT
Eddie Izzard throwing a tantrum at dinner? PERFECT
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:21 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


So perfect and so horrible.

In other news, while I'm still working on the emotional processing, I've always liked Gillian Anderson, but tonight just cemented a thing I've been liking about this show, generally. All that stuff about very young women being paired with very middle-aged men, in Hollywood, and like--Caroline Dhavernas was at least in her mid-30s. But Gillian's like a decade older. So many other things I've seen before would have either cast someone younger or said oh, you know, it doesn't need to be a sex thing. She doesn't need to wear anything provocative. It doesn't have to be that sort of relationship, it's fine.

And it would have been a waste, because this episode was up there with Shiizakana in terms of "how did they get this on network TV because this is pornographic and it's amazing".
posted by Sequence at 8:22 PM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]


I'm starting the rewatch now. Anybody with me?
posted by pearlybob at 8:22 PM on June 4, 2015


IT IS ABSOLUTELY THAT KIND OF PARTY.
posted by Stacey at 8:22 PM on June 4, 2015 [24 favorites]


EDDIE FUCKING IZZARD. I can't. And the score tonight goes so many wonderful places. Everything from weirdo synth madness to saucy, jazzy bits.

THIS. SHOW. AFFGHDJDID
posted by sparkletone at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2015


Sad to see that dude go a little, though, cause head definitely DTF
posted by likeatoaster at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


IT IS ABSOLUTELY THAT KIND OF PARTY.

That pause, there, felt a lot like Bryan admitting that in the fanfic in his head, it was definitely that kind of party. I wonder sometimes if he posts stuff under a pseudonym just to get it out of his system...
posted by Sequence at 8:39 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


That was a big lurid moving painting.
posted by codacorolla at 8:41 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


We watched this on a friend's TV and it was set to something like 60 fps and felt weirdly like BBC boring-TV-show film stock which was nicely appropriate for such a European episode
posted by Greg Nog at 8:49 PM on June 4, 2015


Yes. A painting on multiple, 3-d layers of velvet, painted with pomegranate and caviar essence and mounted on fine, Corinthian leather. It just went on and on...
posted by pearlybob at 8:49 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


It reminded me a little of the best sort of Giallo, actually, although I'm not sure if that's just because it was set in Italy or what.
posted by codacorolla at 8:52 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


Before I start Here's all my Hannibal Prep dinner stuff!

ALSO



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
posted by The Whelk at 8:55 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also feels like such a coup that they moved it to Thursday nights, instead of The Worst Time Slot
posted by likeatoaster at 8:57 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm going to process this later but, you know how when whenever we where inside Hannibal's head it became a lurid near musical?

That's going to be like, half this season.

A! A! A! A!

Maaan Evil English Will Graham, guy has a type. Got kind of a Littlefinger vibe off him.

THE PROJECTED ETCHING OF LUCIFIER ON HIS FACE

and the ..ABEL and the SNAILS...and GILLLLIAN


asdfghjkl;
posted by The Whelk at 8:58 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


Bedelia falling into dark water! The gilt Florentine Plazzo, the STORE


THE DRESSES.

Oh god with the PATIENT - Of course she owes Hannibal a favor (Tanline! Shower! Go full fanfic or go home!) and of course he pulled the "make someone kill in self defense" thing with Will before.

*bites knuckle*

HE FOLDED IT INTO A HEART NNNNNH.
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


Food-wise, we made some canapés that involved a french bread I made from scratch, plus little sausage patties also made from scratch! (composed in part from some fat I got out of a pork shoulder that was turned into ground pork, cooking-lard, and chicharrones!) We also made blue-cheese-stuffed bacon-wrapped figs!

And a "nice" Chianti
posted by Greg Nog at 9:01 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


"...you only have aesthetic concerns" Just what I wanted, full on fairy tale vampires, no more pretense or human suit, let's be monsters.

I like how decadent Evil English Will Graham was savvy but thought he was smarter then he was, don't underestimate him, people keep saying that.

The dancing! Ending on a dip centered on Bedelia's exposed neck. Vampires abound.

Or just...Gideon was being kept alive, possibly for weeks, days at least, cause Hannibal was LONELY.

What does Hannibal get after Gideon's body is found? A surprise visit from Will!

gaaaaaaah
posted by The Whelk at 9:05 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also I definitely felt like EuroLittlefinger was similar to Violin Killer from back in Season One; like it's this dude who seems PERFECT for Habs, and if you knew them both, you'd totally try setting them up, but ultimately, Habs just isn't feelin' it. That's okay, it's no one's fault. We've all dated people like that
posted by Greg Nog at 9:06 PM on June 4, 2015 [20 favorites]


HOW ARE ANY OF YOU TYPING WORDS. WORDS STOP THE MOMENT HE SAYS IT IS NOT CANNIBALISM. JUST SCREAMING AFTER.
posted by sparkletone at 9:08 PM on June 4, 2015 [8 favorites]


We've all dated people like that

"Look it's not going to work out" *bashes skull in with bust*

"It's not you it's me"

*Whose bust was it? the captioning obscured it, I assumed Dante?
posted by The Whelk at 9:10 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


I pegged Euro-Will as mincemeat from the moment we saw him, to be honest.
posted by codacorolla at 9:16 PM on June 4, 2015


"I'm trying not to eat anything with a central nervous system"
posted by The Whelk at 9:23 PM on June 4, 2015


(snail farms are pretty cool, medieval villages would have huge ones, if you're into eating snails)
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 PM on June 4, 2015


"It's only cannibalism if we're equals."

I made a mental note to remember that line in case the situation were ever to present itself.
posted by cazoo at 9:30 PM on June 4, 2015 [11 favorites]


I AM NEARING THE END OF A THIRD VIEWING AND STILL CANT STOP YELLING.

OUR SHOW DID THE THINGEJDJEJWKSKS.
posted by sparkletone at 9:32 PM on June 4, 2015


ALSO ISN'T THAT BOOK-WILL'S FAVORITE WINE BEDELIA KEEPS ORDERING?

Montrachet is indeed great wine
posted by The Whelk at 9:35 PM on June 4, 2015


The core of this is the participation convo and it's such an indictment of us, the viewer but it's... Loving in a way such things usually aren't (and don't need to be).
posted by sparkletone at 9:41 PM on June 4, 2015 [6 favorites]


Well we're also not being held captive on a non-consensual vacation by a vampire devil with wizard powers but yes I guess.

That Gideon line, "When it happens to you" seems to have


weight
posted by The Whelk at 9:43 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


See, I got the opposite feeling. The problem isn't that EuroWill is wrong, it's that he's too close to right. Hannibal doesn't need someone to pine after, he already has the pining part down. What he doesn't have is the physical... relationship, as it were. Tobias seemed like... too pretentious. He wanted a connection, but Hannibal was just so far beyond him, right? He dies because he has to die. Anthony seems to be also acting as a surrogate. Not ultimately satisfying, but, well, this is why you shouldn't engage in casual murder while you're on the rebound.
posted by Sequence at 9:43 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


Tobias? Pretentious, obvious, no respect, no personal connection. EuroWillfinger? Savvy, on the ball, adroit in conversation but ...just a little too into it? Sleazy, really. Vulgar almost. Rude. No Will really was the total package, the complete Beatrice. And then he got away. It's gotta sting.

But hey your best buddy Bedelia will be there during the moments she's not trying to kill you or flee.

It's so hard to make friends.
posted by The Whelk at 9:47 PM on June 4, 2015 [13 favorites]


I also love Bedelia's back-handed "Well at the moment I'm pretty sure I'm in control of my own mind and decisions so that's a step forward for you"
posted by The Whelk at 9:54 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


*Whose bust was it? the captioning obscured it, I assumed Dante?

It's partially-obscured by blood but ends in "otle" so it's probably either Aristotle or Chipotle
posted by Greg Nog at 9:55 PM on June 4, 2015 [50 favorites]


HOLY SHIT GILLIAN ANDERSON!


That being said, this episode did make me wonder: who does the dishes in the Lecter household?

I mean, obviously, they can't have servants, so do they take turns? Is it just Hannibal there in his undershirt, scrubbing the tagine, or hand-drying the cast-iron pan they used to sear the "calf's" liver? Do he and Bedelia finish off the wine and have random bits of conversation while he does it?


"Did you take care of that banking thing?"

"Oh yes, I talked to the guy today- he was very pleasant. There's a form we have to fill out, but we can do it online."

"That's good...hey, do you want to watch the rest of Wolf Hall tonight, or should we wait?"

"I'm a bit tired- let's wait until the weekend."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:01 PM on June 4, 2015 [10 favorites]


Well before it was Abigail cleaning up in that one scene and then she ...cleaned up down below.
posted by The Whelk at 10:05 PM on June 4, 2015


I grabbed weed for Hannibal in the same building Hannibal pulled up to at the very beginning, so that was surreal.

Will need to rewatch immediately. I kept thinking "I would watch a show that was just Hannibal and Bedelia in Europe" and then immediately realizing "Holy shit I get to."
posted by yellowbinder at 10:07 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


Is it just Hannibal there in his undershirt, scrubbing the tagine

Have we seen him in an undershirt, though? I don't know that we have! If that's the case, the options would be:

1) Hannibal shirtless
2) Hannibal in shirtsleeves (casual Habs)
3) Hannibal in shirtsleeves plus apron, as is occasionally the case while cooking

I guess what I'd like to do is henceforth make this a thread exclusively for voting between these three options
posted by Greg Nog at 10:31 PM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


Maybe sometimes he wears a speedo AND an apron while cleaning
posted by The Whelk at 10:34 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


Number of times I had to swear out loud at my screen:

Just for the cinematography and direction: 4

For the script or acting: 6

Why the hell isn't Gillian Anderson in everything? She's astounding.
posted by figurant at 10:52 PM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]


Can I vote for Hannibal in an apron but no shirt Greg
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:54 PM on June 4, 2015 [6 favorites]


HOW ARE ANY OF YOU TYPING WORDS. WORDS STOP THE MOMENT HE SAYS IT IS NOT CANNIBALISM. JUST SCREAMING AFTER.

I had to pause it and smirk for about 90 seconds

I did the same thing after Hannibal's innocent little "What would you have me dooooo?" which was just... so mean

Oh and also after the incredibly lengthy oral sex joke gag
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:57 PM on June 4, 2015


I will say though, I saw an interview where Fuller claimed that this would be an ideal episode to jump in on as a new viewer, and... idk about that man.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:59 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also: is that tiny little Italian man a book character or what? He was like the quintessential Angry Dean from an 80s teen movie. But, you know, a snooty Italian professor.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:03 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


Just finished the west coast feed...damn.
Scenes with Able are...upsetting...

Glad to see Gillian's character reacting exactly as expected in the flashbacks.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:09 PM on June 4, 2015


JE SUIS TRES AGITEE
posted by poffin boffin at 11:12 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also: is that tiny little Italian man a book character or what?

yes professor sogliato is a book duder and was not actually how i pictured him but still very excellent
posted by poffin boffin at 11:14 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't know if I have room in my heart for both Dhavernas and Anderson as regulars. Don't make me choose, show.
posted by Justinian at 11:29 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also: is that tiny little Italian man a book character or what? He was like the quintessential Angry Dean from an 80s teen movie. But, you know, a snooty Italian professor.

I enjoy how he's basically the VOGUE ITALIA version of Dr. Chilton. .
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 PM on June 4, 2015 [15 favorites]


So I guess you could say that Dimmond guy got totally... busted.

.
.
.
.
.
.

busted
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:42 PM on June 4, 2015 [15 favorites]


I couldn't be happier
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:53 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


So, Hannibal used the exact same line on Bedelia that he later used on Abigail. "I can help you... if you ask me to." Oh you fuckerrrr
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:04 AM on June 5, 2015


So I guess you could say that Dimmond guy got totally...

LIZ.

GODDAMMIT.
posted by sparkletone at 12:29 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Someone on twitter pointed out... this kill almost certainly is a reference to the tarot card the Three of Swords.

"This card depicts a pure piercing sorrow of the mind. The sorrow must be felt and experienced for closure and relief to come [...] one of the most negative cards in the entire deck."

"feeling heartbreak, being disappointed, receiving little solace, being separated, wandering far from home, finding your trust misplaced, getting stabbed in the back"

...god, Hannibal, you emo little bitch
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:35 AM on June 5, 2015 [20 favorites]


Just popping in here to say that I can't see it until at least tomorrow afternoon, so JEALOUS. However, tonight I go to see Hugo Weaving in Waiting For Godot, so.
posted by Grangousier at 1:31 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


He was like the quintessential Angry Dean from an 80s teen movie.

[shaking fist]
"CANNIBAL HOOOUUUUUUSE"
posted by Greg Nog at 2:34 AM on June 5, 2015 [24 favorites]


Popping in midway through watching to highlight the music choices this episode - I'm sure there's a lot of depth I'm missing, but I certainly picked up "Death and the Maiden" playing during the first scene featuring Hannbial & Her Royal Highness Princess Gillian.

Inspired/hilarious.
posted by coriolisdave at 3:21 AM on June 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


Good morning, everyone! I've been awake for five minutes so it's time to feed the cats and get down to a rewatch, yes?
posted by Stacey at 4:39 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


I never thought I'd live long enough to see Gillian Anderson fist Zachary Quinto on network television. But there you have it.
posted by crossoverman at 5:11 AM on June 5, 2015 [11 favorites]


Truly we live in glorious times.

My rewatch reminded me that the big hall with those torture exhibit cases reminded me of the room with Chilton's therapy cages. My god, this SHOW.
posted by Stacey at 6:40 AM on June 5, 2015 [6 favorites]


Also: is that tiny little Italian man a book character or what

Not to my knowledge. He felt borrowed from Talented Mr Ripley in the best way.
posted by sparkletone at 8:01 AM on June 5, 2015


"Got kind of a Littlefinger vibe off him."

Absolutely. I kept expecting him to bust out something like "You should pay a visit to my brothel this evening. Trust me... we accommodate all inclinations."

I also can't wait to find out more about the white truffle and bottles of Batard-Montrachet.
posted by komara at 8:20 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


My rewatch reminded me that the big hall with those torture exhibit cases reminded me of the room with Chilton's therapy cages.

When that was in trailers I assumed it was Head Palace material but NOPE. And it is so deliberate. It's Hannibal unconsciously displaying that he misses Will. He's called on it vocally a couple times but like right there. He misses his bff.
posted by sparkletone at 8:57 AM on June 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh so is this where I come to freak out about the beautiful horrible murder opera? Because I can't stop freaking out about the BEAUTIFUL HORRIBLE MURDER OPERA.

I think it's quite amazing, this show's progression from gorgeous police procedural to...whatever the hell that was, just forty-five minutes of PURE DREAD. It's fearfully wonderful that the episode that brings us to a world bigger and more beautiful than ever what with the gilt and the vaulted ceilings and all the other Six Bloody Flags Over Florence trappings is also maybe the most intimate episode I can remember, even more so than all those S2 episodes that were basically conversations between Will and Hannibal down in the hospital dungeon. Like, the only important location was Bedelia's desperate beating-wings mind. Oh my god.
posted by peachfuzz at 9:03 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


Ahhh, now that was the stuff. It's so unfair that we have to starve for a year and then gorge on everything in a few short weeks. I guess it's a good thing it's not available all at once streaming -- we'd all happily OD.
posted by rewil at 9:08 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


If it was available on streaming I'd have watched the next 13 hours clear in.
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also: is that tiny little Italian man a book character or what

He totally is! In Hannibal the novel he's just as pissy, with an additional backstory that he's a hardcore nepotist who's installed like his whole family to administrative roles in the Studiolo and is annoyed because he wanted the curator job for his nephew, I think?
posted by peachfuzz at 9:12 AM on June 5, 2015




I don't know if I have room in my heart for both Dhavernas and Anderson as regulars. Don't make me choose, show.

If you don't have room, I'll take them both.

And Katharine Isabelle. I'm so excited about this season that I could scream.

I know someone complained about Fanfare getting too fanperson-y, but... I mean, I've definitely had times where I thought they had weaker episodes. Last night was just amazement and flailing and shrieking at a friend of mine who still hasn't gotten around to watching even the first season. I mean, it has a doctor, and a savant, and there's crime. It's practically Sherlock, isn't it? I don't know what more she wants!
posted by Sequence at 10:06 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Postmortem! With Fuller and Anderson!

This made me imagine a parallel universe where somehow Jimmy was the one who flew off to Europe with Hannibal
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:26 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


Goddamn, that was just amazing. I am sooooo glad this show is back.
posted by homunculus at 10:30 AM on June 5, 2015


ALSO just back to say the longest lingering image for me was that last blonde curl swirling on inky water as Bedelia disappears into the bath. Jesus THIS SHOW when it's not even trying. what the hell people.
posted by peachfuzz at 10:31 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure if it's spoilers or not: I think European Hannibal is great, but I cannot wait for the other main part of this season to show up. It's something I've been waiting for since season 1.
posted by codacorolla at 10:35 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Okay so on rewatch Hannibal and Dimmond did THE SEX, yes? Idk how I missed that the first time around but I think I was just verklempt over seeing my murderhusband en moto.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:35 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


ALSO just back to say the longest lingering image for me was that last blonde curl swirling on inky water as Bedelia disappears into the bath.

If I knew how to edit video, I'd go through the series and put together a compilation of just those weird close-up atmospheric images. It would probably be like 3 hours long.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:37 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Sometimes I think this show has the same relationship to Sherlock (or maybe Dexter) that Community has to Big Bang Theory, i.e. being the infinitely more sophisticated and formally playful doppelganger to a less inspired yet more broadly-popular series. I've been talking this show up to all sorts of people in my circle, but it's not really the kind of program that you can casually tune in for a random episode (or even a "re-piloted" season premiere) and have any clue about what's happening.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:42 AM on June 5, 2015 [8 favorites]


Okay so on rewatch Hannibal and Dimmond did THE SEX, yes?

I mean Dimmond was pretty clearly into the whole leather look.

You know, if they were going to kill him anyway, they might as well have gone ahead and had that threesome. I mean he was kinda cute!

Also I definitely felt like EuroLittlefinger was similar to Violin Killer from back in Season One; like it's this dude who seems PERFECT for Habs, and if you knew them both, you'd totally try setting them up, but ultimately, Habs just isn't feelin' it. That's okay, it's no one's fault. We've all dated people like that

I just realized that Hannibal has the same terrible relationship tendencies as I do - if the other person is just TOO into you from the start, it's sort of off-putting, you know? Hannibal pursued Will because he straight-up told him to his face "I don't find you that interesting." These other shmucks made the mistake of actually being really interested in Hannibal right from the start, and so he did the murder equivalent of ghosting on them and changing their name in his phone to "Do Not Answer Clingy"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:45 AM on June 5, 2015 [8 favorites]


1) Hannibal shirtless
2) Hannibal in shirtsleeves (casual Habs)
3) Hannibal in shirtsleeves plus apron, as is occasionally the case while cooking



Other outfits we might like to see Hannibal in:

-linen pajamas
-a yukata
-a caftan
-a wetsuit (in fact, could Hannibal and Bedelia go on some sort of surfing holiday? I'm not sure if Mads surfs, but I know Gillian does)
-jodhpurs
-an early 19th-century Hussar's uniform


(btw, is this where I casually mention that Mads Mikkelsen occasionally goes to my gym in Toronto? He is in excellent shape.)
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:51 AM on June 5, 2015 [13 favorites]


I was very struck by Hannibal saying "this isn't cannibalism, Abel" because I realized I couldn't remember if he had ever used that word before. I did a quick search through the online scripts and, in fact, he has only used the word 'cannibal' or 'cannibalism' once before in the whole show - in the very first episode, referring to Garrett Jacob Hobbes. ("This cannibal you have him getting to know... I think I can help good Will see his face.") During all those intimate conversations with Will, he never used the word once, and now we know why - he truly doesn't think it applies to him.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:55 AM on June 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think Hannibal has a hierarchy which he uses to classify humans, with very few falling into the last categpru:

-Food
-Instruments
-Actual Persons
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:58 AM on June 5, 2015 [7 favorites]


Strange Interlude, "formally playful" is a great way to describe this show! I might steal that.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:58 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


btw, is this where I casually mention that Mads Mikkelsen occasionally goes to my gym in Toronto? He is in excellent shape

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DISCUSS THIS AT GREAT (ahem) LENGTH
posted by poffin boffin at 10:59 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


So, almost definitely Zachary Quinto will come back for a more substantial flashback scene, but wouldn't it be so fucking funny if he didn't?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:01 AM on June 5, 2015 [6 favorites]


he truly doesn't think it applies to him.

I bet in the Silence era when everyone calls him "Hannibal the Cannibal" he's constantly sighing and being like, "ah, jeez, guys, come on"
posted by Greg Nog at 11:21 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


I also appreciated that Hannibal was riding a Triumph cafe racer. The production designers on this show really get it.
posted by cazoo at 11:24 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Okay so on rewatch Hannibal and Dimmond did THE SEX, yes?

Idk about that. Much as I appreciated urgent whispers about uncomfortable positions etc., I thought Dimmond was just too...louche for Hannibal. I'm actually frowning at myself as I type, here, but this Hannibal is just so immaculate, so, like, pure maybe? (n.b. I thought literally the only dialogue misstep in this episode was that of course his early epigram should have been "Aesthetics become ethics" and not the other way around). Hannibal is never, like, GROSS about anything. I think he would have found Dimmond's particular brand of grasping too sordid and salacious.
posted by peachfuzz at 11:32 AM on June 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


I bet in the Silence era when everyone calls him "Hannibal the Cannibal" he's constantly sighing and being like, "ah, jeez, guys, come on"

Imagine how much he's going to hate having his dirty laundry dragged out into the public sphere as the media gets their claws into the real Chesapeake Ripper. How vulgar and disappointing - to be titillation for the food.
posted by codacorolla at 11:37 AM on June 5, 2015


I also appreciated that Hannibal was riding a Triumph cafe racer. The production designers on this show really get it.

And a Belstaff jacket, yezzzzzzz, though I was kinda disappointed that it was from their David Beckham line because yeah right HANNIBAL WOULD NEVER. Will give it a pass because it looked A+ mighty fine though.
posted by peachfuzz at 11:38 AM on June 5, 2015


To expand on my last real comment, of course it's any Hannibal's thing to be ultra-refined and fancy but I think what I mean is that this Hannibal is almost innocent? That is 100% the wrong word, but I'm thinking of his cheerfulness and earnestness, he's of course completely malevolent but not tortured over it or even personally invested. He is incorruptible.
posted by peachfuzz at 11:50 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Unfortunately, I've never seen him in the locker rooms, so no details there, mostly around the weights area. Wears a sort of Euro tracksuit thing (Joma, I think, or maybe Mizuno), which seems appropriate. Certainly looks like he knows what he's doing, without making a big show of it.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:04 PM on June 5, 2015


I bet in the Silence era when everyone calls him "Hannibal the Cannibal" he's constantly sighing and being like, "ah, jeez, guys, come on"

"Yeah, yeah, it rhymes, ugh can we just get PAST it already"
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:43 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]




sparkletone: When that was in trailers I assumed it was Head Palace material but NOPE. And it is so deliberate. It's Hannibal unconsciously displaying that he misses Will. He's called on it vocally a couple times but like right there. He misses his bff.

This is in the music Hannibal diagetically listens to while he is cooking and eating the original Dr. Fell. He plays "Sogno soave e casto" from Act 1, Scene 3 of Don Pasquale by Donizetti.

Sweet and chaste dream
from my early years, farewell.
I longed for wealth and splendor
just for you, my love:
poor, abandoned,
fallen to a low state,
ere seeing you miserable,
dear, I must renounce you.

Alternate translation found in a full English/Italian libretto (page 8).

Video for context, the aria on the record starts at 3:44 (though it should be noted that as is common for recorded excerpts the record Hannibal listens to only features the tenor Ernesto and does not include when the bass Don Pasquale comes in).

Ernesto is in love with Norina but he has been disinherited by his uncle (Don Pasquale) because he won't marry who the uncle wants him to marry. This leaves him destitute and he resolves to give up dreams of marrying his beloved Norina.

The opera arias chosen for this show are amazing.
posted by mountmccabe at 12:56 PM on June 5, 2015 [7 favorites]


While we're coming up with outfits I would like to request a reappearance from the Red Sweater of Casual Friday Cannibalism. That sweater on Mads does funny things to me.

I also feel like Dimmond was probably rebuffed for The Sex but I would be happy to read your dirty fanfic - I mean, your thoughtful and detailed argument to the contrary - to make up my mind.
posted by Stacey at 12:58 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


The opera arias chosen for this show are amazing.

Poor Hannibal. Too beautiful and fancy for this dumb world.
posted by sparkletone at 1:06 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Oh, btw, here's that sonnet he recited while everybody recordscratched:

The first three hours of night were almost spent

The time that every star shines down on us

When Love appeared to me so suddenly

That I still shudder at the memory.

Joyous Love seemed to me, the while he held

My heart within his hands, and in his arms

My lady lay asleep wrapped in a veil.

He woke her then and trembling and obedient

She ate that burning heart out of his hand;

Weeping I saw him then depart from me.

posted by showbiz_liz at 1:16 PM on June 5, 2015 [14 favorites]


I made a more easily shareable version of that tarot card thing, the better to demonstrate Hanni's hilariously over-the-top breakup angst
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:21 PM on June 5, 2015 [12 favorites]


He thinks he's the cinnamon roll in that one Onion article and it is the best but also the worst.
posted by sparkletone at 1:24 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


I feel like the Dimmond thing was him going "oooh I see, yes I too share many dark twisted desires.." And Habs being all "Oh that's adorable, did you come up with this routine yourself or did you crib it from Game Of Thrones fanfic?"
posted by The Whelk at 1:27 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


YES. Murder striver amateur night. I kind of feel like Hannibal killed Dimmond like 50% to save him (Dimmond) from embarrassing himself more. So chivalrous!
posted by peachfuzz at 1:34 PM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


While you all are riding high on this episode and feeling so many feels why not let go, relax, forget that you were ever saving money for anything important like rent or medicine or food and think about the fact that props from the first two seasons are about to go up for auction.
posted by komara at 2:37 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Admission: I was supposed to watch it with friends last night but we had to reschedule for tonight. I of course watched it anyway and am considering just not saying anything
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:51 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Try and look surprised when Dana Scully fists Spock to death.
posted by sobarel at 3:07 PM on June 5, 2015 [19 favorites]


When that was in trailers I assumed it was Head Palace material but NOPE.

It occurs to me that these places might well be Head Palace material after Hannibal is caught, though.
posted by crossoverman at 3:57 PM on June 5, 2015


The soundtrack. Brian Reitzell deserves an award which does not yet exist.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:21 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


It occurs to me that these places might well be Head Palace material after Hannibal is caught, though.

That way they don't have to lose that gorgeous Baltimore office set.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:21 PM on June 5, 2015


Do you think Dick Whitman (with or without the don draper suit) and Hannibal (with or witgout the human suit) would make for the bestest bffs ever?
posted by ian1977 at 4:45 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Dimmond was so dead no matter what, but he was extra extra dead once he confirmed Hannibal's identity to Prof. Sogliato.
posted by ocherdraco at 5:13 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also: Aristotle. Wrote the book on ethics. This is not a coincidence. Ethics/aesthetics, etc.
posted by ocherdraco at 5:14 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


The Bizarre Instruments That Make Hannibal Sound So Creepy

The Engelhart... The Engelhart!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:16 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


props from the first two seasons are about to go up for auction.

Lecter’s “Tome-wan” Three Piece Suit


smash cut to the whelk selling his own kidney on the black market
posted by poffin boffin at 5:38 PM on June 5, 2015 [12 favorites]


That was a big lurid moving painting.

And notice the lovely craquelure.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:41 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


-linen pajamas
-a yukata
-a caftan
-a wetsuit (in fact, could Hannibal and Bedelia go on some sort of surfing holiday? I'm not sure if Mads surfs, but I know Gillian does)
-jodhpurs
-an early 19th-century Hussar's uniform


-- sarong

[sigh] I knew a boy in college who sometimes wore a sarong . . . which is off-topic. So OK, Bedelia (and us, as sparkletone cleverly notes) is now possibly the freakiest most fucked-up character on this show, which takes some doing, and y'know, I get that Gillian Anderson is, like, acting, but between this hideous shit and The Fall, how the hell does she go home after work and even remotely lead any sort of "Hi, honey, what's for dinner?" normal life at all?

I mean, I'm emotionally scarred just from watching any given hour of this fucking thing, and seriously convinced that it's probably curdling my soul or whatever. How traumatic does it have to be to be these people for a living?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:07 PM on June 5, 2015


smash cut to the whelk selling his own kidney on the black market

im pretty sure two of me could fit inside that suit if we had our middles removed.

(Besides getting it made would be cheaper then the auction price I imagine...)
posted by The Whelk at 6:15 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


No Will really was the total package, the complete Beatrice. And then he got away. It's gotta sting. But hey your best buddy Bedelia will be there during the moments she's not trying to kill you or flee.

The whole mopey-yet-menacing Dante speech scene had me in, er, stitches --

Hannibal: Good afternoon, everyone. Let me just say a few things about JUDAS and BETRAYAL and people who STOMP on your HEART and mash that sucker FLAT the second after you let them into your person suit. [sniffle]

Bedelia: Oh shit, I'm outta here before he makes me stay up all night watching The Way We Were and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind again.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:56 PM on June 5, 2015 [26 favorites]


I will say though, I saw an interview where Fuller claimed that this would be an ideal episode to jump in on as a new viewer, and... idk about that man.

The man has spent two seasons trolling his fan base, so this seems in character.

Finally got to watch it. God poor Bedelia. It's almost worse because he's going to keep her alive.

How many episodes until we find out about Will, Jack and Alana's current statuses?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:21 PM on June 5, 2015


I mean, I'm emotionally scarred just from watching any given hour of this fucking thing, and seriously convinced that it's probably curdling my soul or whatever. How traumatic does it have to be to be these people for a living?

Some of us, like fine cheeses, do quite well after curdling.
posted by Sequence at 9:04 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


The nice thing was that for a while most of them didn't know they were on Hannibal but then that no good Will Graham figured it out and now they all know.
posted by sparkletone at 9:17 PM on June 5, 2015 [6 favorites]


Emotionally scarred... or incredibly invigorated?
posted by codacorolla at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2015


Emotionally scarred... or incredibly invigorated?

There's a difference? Btw, someone needs to cast Gillian Anderson and Vera Farmiga in a buddy-road picture or no holds-barred remake of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? or Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte or something.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:43 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


It just hit me, if that's Book!Will's favorite wine ...then maybe Hannibal learned that during their glass o wine therapy sessions?

And he gets making Bedelia order it?

Damn dude you got it bad you are not over him in the least.
posted by The Whelk at 10:00 PM on June 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


I am now arguing with a wine critic on Twitter about Hannibal's wine choices I love the Internet
posted by The Whelk at 10:07 PM on June 5, 2015 [12 favorites]


(I may have convinced them to a blog post on what Hannibal SHOULD be drinking. Too many reds! It's thematically vampric but it doesn't make sense with oysters!)
posted by The Whelk at 10:14 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Well now I really have to rewatch because I (probably incorrectly) thought Hannibal wasn't eating the oysters himself, just making Bedelia eat them with acorns and marsala as he did to flavorize Abel Gideon. She looked sort of grossed out while eating them, and not only because of how she expected the meal to end for LittleBritainfinger.

Was Bedelia buying the Batard-Montrachet and white truffles as another HERE I AM; PLEASE HELP ME message to Interpol and Will, like staring directly into the CCTV camera?
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:23 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


It looked like Bedelia had entire acorns on her plate, but you can't just pop an unshelled, unprepared acorn in your mouth and eat it, it would taste disgusting. I guess Hannibal just put them there as decoration and as his own little joke?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:49 PM on June 5, 2015


I mean he does like to put piles and piles of inedible stuff in his plating, which I personally always found a little unappetizing. (The human meat, no problem)
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:01 AM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


When she is staring at the security camera, she is carefully pointing at the camera the bag with the logo of the store. Where she is making herself an easily-memorable regular by ordering the same thing every time. Yeah, she's basically wearing a big "COME AND FIND ME I AM LEAVING YOU SO MANY CLUES" sign.
posted by Stacey at 4:01 AM on June 6, 2015 [5 favorites]


"Feeding Hannibal" for this episode is up. My god, does candied pork belly sound good.
posted by Stacey at 6:16 AM on June 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Going to buy her Hannibal cookbook, going to cook all the recipes.
posted by mountmccabe at 8:30 AM on June 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Candied pork belly is delightful, and and a similar technique would probably work for...leg...as well.

For actual belly, though, I might have gone with a dongpo technique myself. The sour notes help cut the fattiness of the meat.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:59 AM on June 6, 2015


That was horrifying. Am I supposed to sleep tonight?
posted by jeather at 6:39 PM on June 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


How many episodes until we find out about Will, Jack and Alana's current statuses?

I'm guessing zero more, but I'm not ultra-concerned after seeing the Ep 1 opening credits. More worrying: who's been taking care of Buster (also recovering from injuries!), Winston, Applesauce, and the gang with Will and Alana in the hospital?
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:53 AM on June 7, 2015


According to fan lore, all of will's digs are FINE. They're on a farm somewhere.
posted by The Whelk at 1:55 AM on June 7, 2015


Maybe Zeller is taking care of them because he feels so bad about everything that happened with Will before.

Or Peter "is your social worker in that horse" B has been released from whatever institution he was in?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:55 AM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


What I want to know is - Hannibal is constantly preparing these massive human based meals and serving them to like one or two people. Like that leg! So... does he eat the leftovers? It seems wasteful not to, but he doesn't really seem like a leftovers guy.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:20 AM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]


The answer is perfectly obvious, especially now we have seen him wearing motorcycle leathers, perfect for authentic mongol preparation. He makes jerky, for those times when he isn't up to an elaborate death spectacle but still wants that nourishing human meat in a convenient easy-to-store form.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:54 AM on June 7, 2015


Well, that was beautiful. Am I right in thinking that Hannibal's time slot is one that NBC won't win in anyway, so they might as well put on something extraordinary? If so, that's very grown up of NBC.

Oh, and Godot was awesome. Highly recommended if you get the chance.
posted by Grangousier at 6:20 AM on June 7, 2015


Oh, and Godot was awesome. Highly recommended if you get the chance.

Oh boy, Philip Quast! If I had someone to mind my own motley pack of pups, I'd be driving to the airport as we speak.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:08 AM on June 7, 2015


Instead of "This is my design," I'm sort of hoping Will's signature phrase this season is "Toldja so."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:12 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


That was horrifying. Am I supposed to sleep tonight?

in a bed of rice beneath a nice winey demiglaze
posted by poffin boffin at 10:30 AM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]


i mean what

who said that
posted by poffin boffin at 10:30 AM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]


"Ethics is the aesthetics of the future."
Laurie Anderson
posted by Grangousier at 11:25 AM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


So, the dialogue "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us into the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us." "What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?" - which I see upon googling is, of course, straight from the books - pretty clearly was meant as a sort of meta-commentary on the audience watching the show. But I just realized that if you take that line in context with the "observe or participate" scene, it can be taken as an accusation of the audience, essentially saying that the audience, like Bedelia, is complicit in the murder via our observation.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:44 AM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]


showbiz liz: Oh and also after the incredibly lengthy oral sex joke gag

Let's not forget that the show started off with beautiful and horrifying visual castration/ejaculation/circumcision joke.
posted by echolalia67 at 11:47 AM on June 7, 2015


Let's not forget that the show started off with beautiful and horrifying visual castration/ejaculation/circumcision joke.

NOT TO MENTION the closeup shots of Hannibal shucking those oysters knowwhatimean
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:52 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


As mentioned, the music is lovely - there are overtones of early 70s progressive / jazz, such as Soft Machine (Third), and there's actually something quite Peter-Strickland-y about the whole thing. Though I suppose that's a coincidence of Italo-perversity.
posted by Grangousier at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]


Honestly, if this show ever moves on from NBC I hope they don't change their approach to sex and nudity. The limitations placed on them by broadcast standards lead to way more interesting visuals.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:57 AM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]


Yes!! I was thinking just that as I was watching it.
posted by Grangousier at 11:58 AM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]




i would like to know which canny ancient oyster merchant it was who convinced people that his cold wet low tide snot globs were super sexy so i can travel back in time to prevent his terrible crimes.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]


I have no idea what he means but I hope we get to see it

(Oysters are a really cheap source of protein, when they where really cheap and plentiful you'd have some baked or tossed in hot sauce or lots of lemon or vinegar or very heavily seasoned to give them flavor - only now that they're more rare (yay pollution) do we deem to enjoy them more unaltered and natural. See also Lobster.

And fried osyters with crystal hot sauce are the only way to eat them, obv.)
posted by The Whelk at 1:38 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


[Fuller explains his season 4 plan off the record. It is indeed radical.]"

Ha, I'm so glad Fuller mentioned The Hunger in that interview because ever since the opening scene of this episode, I've been envisioning Hannibal and Bedelia tooling around languidly in a limo to the strains of "Bela Lugosi's Dead" (and possibly Iggy's "The Passenger").
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:41 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


Is it just me or is there a very strong Bertolucci / Antonioni feel about the episode? (Or is that just the Italy coincidence as well?) Freeze it pretty much anywhere and you get a beautiful image, even if occasionally abstract.
posted by Grangousier at 1:57 PM on June 7, 2015


I just can't eat raw oysters. They're alive. That's very nasty.

Smoked oysters, though, yum.

echolalia67 memailed me this morning because I hadn't commented in this thread yet, and she was legit worried I was dead.

That's actually good thinking, and I appreciate it more than anyone probably realizes. However, I'm not dead. Just very behind schedule. I was hoping to get to this episode tonight, but I'm not gonna make it now.

GnaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaa
posted by tel3path at 2:12 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


I've rewatched this episode twice now and I still don't understand what happens to Bedelia at the end of the episode. Nobody else seems upset or curious about it so I must be missing something.

We see a wildly-emoting angsty Hannibal leaving Florence on the train, traveling with a comically-oversized murder trunk but with no Bedelia in sight. Now I would be shocked beyond belief if they actually killed her off this early in the season, but then where is she? Doesn't that at least suggest he killed her for trying to leave? Or did I miss something?
posted by dialetheia at 2:48 PM on June 7, 2015


I think she's just gone but also like, making it super obvious how to find her? I don't know her plan but she has one.
posted by The Whelk at 2:52 PM on June 7, 2015


Unless like, with the looking directly into the security came she's making it super easy to Hannibal to find her thus making it super easy for Will to find him in a kind of sacrificial lamb kinda way.
posted by The Whelk at 2:53 PM on June 7, 2015


We see a wildly-emoting angsty Hannibal leaving Florence on the train, traveling with a comically-oversized murder trunk but with no Bedelia in sight. Now I would be shocked beyond belief if they actually killed her off this early in the season, but then where is she? Doesn't that at least suggest he killed her for trying to leave? Or did I miss something?

I was actually under the impression that he was returning to Florence after setting up the murder tableau somewhere else.

I'd be shocked if they set up all the stuff with his new job and apartment and smarmy colleague only to ditch it after a single episode.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]


It seems like Bedelia is a prisoner of two malevolent forces: Hannibal and her own dark curiosity. Despite what she might want to have happen - to be safely away from Hannibal, to see Hannibal locked up unable to hurt others - she makes small decisions that ensure her continuing connection to Hannibal and his continuing freedom to prey on the public at large.

Why did she return to her house after meeting with Jack Crawford? She had to know that he hadn't been arrested yet, wouldn't it have been safer to ask the FBI to put her up in a safe house or even simply leave the area ASAP?

After watching Hannibal call out to Dimmond during his Dante talk, why did she spend so much time back at the house packing a bag? Certainly, wouldn't it have been safer to grab money, identification and a coat, then quietly slip away into the night?

It is an amazing to watch these conflicts play across Bedelia's face. She wants so very much to do the right thing ; at the same time that she is both painfully aware of the constant danger she is in and the irresistible pull toward greater intimacy with Hannibal. This is a powerful performance on the part of Gillian Anderson.
posted by echolalia67 at 6:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]


I was actually under the impression that he was returning to Florence after setting up the murder tableau somewhere else.

Oh that makes so much more sense, thanks!
posted by dialetheia at 6:20 PM on June 7, 2015


Anyone have any clue as to what this might refer to?

My first thought was that we'd get more about Will post-Red Dragon, when he's drunk and in Florida with a face that's not easy to look at. But that doesn't seem much to build on. I don't think there's any pre-SOTL stuff he could do with Clarice.

By implication, he's leaving Lecter in prison longer than I expected him to be. If we're not transitioning straight into SOTL in season four, I guess we'll spend some time with Chilton and Lecter?

But none of that seems radical.

Could he have Lecter out of prison between Red Dragon and SOTL? I'd hope not, only because that would deflate his escape in SOTL.
posted by crossoverman at 6:54 PM on June 7, 2015


I know this has been said before, but wow it is way better on the second (or more) watch.
posted by likeatoaster at 7:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


You'd think, given what all the show characters know and have experienced that the book and movie characters don't/haven't, that they would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS allow show Hannibal that chance to escape that he gets in Silence. I mean, Chilton making a deal with the guy after he frames him for a billion murders and gets him shot in the face? Somehow they will have to change or otherwise explain that.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:10 PM on June 7, 2015


Two food notes:

A) I'm assuming he leached the acorns of tannins before he served them to his wonderful Bedelia

B) how can you not like raw oysters. they taste like perfect little tidepools. it is like eating the ocean in concentrated fleshy form. it gives you thalassic powers
posted by Greg Nog at 8:08 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


But Greg you would live in the woods and eat berries growing on graves if we let you
posted by The Whelk at 8:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]


Well, how do YOU get your ghost powers?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]


volume
posted by Greg Nog at 8:30 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]


I was actually under the impression that he was returning to Florence after setting up the murder tableau somewhere else.

A few people elsewhere identified the site of the Three of Swords torso-heart tableau as the Cappella Palatina in Palermo, so yeah, brief diversionary road trip -- to Sicily, the hometown of vengeance!

Also, as I would have noticed myself 20 years ago when my mind was not a sieve, the Three of Swords orientation is reversed in the tableau (the swords are the foundation supporting the heart rather than piercing it from above as in the upright orientation), which of course changes the card's meaning and signifies release from the sorrow of separation, optimism, acceptance, and forgiveness.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:18 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


oysters are the hocked up phlegm loogies of the sea
posted by poffin boffin at 10:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


so do I have this correctly that Bedilia reached up her patient's butt to pull out his tongue?

that isn't right is it? is it?
posted by angrycat at 1:35 AM on June 8, 2015


Her arm was down his throat. All this talk of fisting is a joke.
posted by crossoverman at 1:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


Why did she return to her house after meeting with Jack Crawford? She had to know that he hadn't been arrested yet, wouldn't it have been safer to ask the FBI to put her up in a safe house or even simply leave the area ASAP?

I've been thinking about this.

Once Jack found her, two things became clear:

-Either Hannibal was about to get arrested, or Hannibal was about to kill the absolute fuck out of everyone.
-Bedelia didn't hide as well as she thought she did.

In combination, these things meant that if Hannibal did escape justice again, Bedelia could never feel safe again if she ran. She thought she hadn't been found because she hid so well, but really it was just because Hannibal decided he had more important shit to worry about than tracking her down. But once everyone else was dead...

So what to do, if you can't run?

It was once thought that when people or animals enter a situation of potential violence, they have to choose between fight and flight. Now there's a newer version of the theory called fight, flight, posture, or submit. 'Posture' means indicating that you know you will win the fight, so that your opponent doesn't even try to fight you; 'submit' in this context means indicating that you know you can't win, and acknowledging your opponent's superiority. Submitting animals will often expose their belly to their enemy, as a demonstration that they have completely given up fighting. Posturing and submitting, for social animals, preserve the social order without the need for excessive death. If the outcome of a potential fight is clear to all, there's no actual need to have it.

So, she submits. (For now.) But how can she possibly do so safely? Why is she 'optimistic he won't kill her'?

Well. Bedelia knows exactly what Hannibal wants more than anything else. How could she not, being his shrink and listening to him wax poetic on the possibility of friendship and being seen and being known and someone scaling walls and peeking behind the suit and omg have I shown you this drawing I made of me and Will holding hands in a field of wildflowers?

She can't pretend to be Will. She'll only ever be professionally fascinated with Hannibal - but by going right up to him and letting him know that she just couldn't stay away because he's so fascinating even though he's so scary, that's like catnip to him. It's enough to make her 'optimistic he won't kill her,' which is more certainty than she would have had if she'd run away again.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]


very interesting deleted scene between Wilgram and Hamibal
posted by Greg Nog at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]


Ok good good now plz recreate entire series with puppetry thanks
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:06 AM on June 8, 2015


I think we have stumbled upon Bryan's ~radical idea~ for season four.
posted by sparkletone at 9:20 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


A hot dog makes him loose control
posted by The Whelk at 9:23 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't think Bedelia is entirely pretending to be attracted to Hannibal's lifestyle and interests, in her inert fatalistic way (though not to Hannibal in a personal-soulmate type way at all), while at the same time being suffused with dread and knowing her days are numbered and hoping to be rescued and wanting to bolt posthaste. He has had ample time to cultivate that bit of her. And of course she doesn't want to find it interesting and is revolted by that. Bedelia comes off as a lot more complicated and layered under her disturbingly serene veneer than Will and Hannibal are. I mean, the scene with the patient was obviously traumatic, but it's also the most animated and, um, engaged that we've seen her.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh, totally. Her approach wouldn't work if she wasn't sincerely fascinated and attracted by him because he would see right through it - exactly what Will figured out last season.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


And actually, my favorite thing of the many many fantastic things about Bedelia is that no matter how terrified she becomes, she still gives Hannibal shit in that astringent deadpan manner. When I get mildly scared, my brain shuts off, but her? "Modern connivers of Florence," ha ha ha ha.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


Anyone who makes a cannibalism pun TO Hannibal is obviously playing on his level
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


In the what tbe flick video, Fuller said Hannibal is still trying to draw Will toward him in typical jilted lover style.
posted by The Whelk at 11:16 AM on June 8, 2015


Of course he is. I just love how Fuller said that the theme for season 3 is Breaking Up Is Hard to Do. And all kidding aside, I feel for Hannibal; he surely can't have much if any previous experience dealing with this type of loss. Not that one gets used to it, but man, going through that hellish experience for the first time at 46 or 56 rather than 16, especially when you're an otherwise learned, urbane ubermensch, has got to be not just crushing but mortifying.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


Of course he is.

fixed that for u
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:39 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


(Have I been spending too much time on Tumblr? You be the judge)
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2015


I actually THOUGHT that dude was Littlefinger at first.

Wish I could join you guys here in FanFare for this season, but watching the S3 premiere was (A) the first time I've watched anything on broadcast TV in I can't even guess how long and (B) the last time. The poorer video and sound quality, the popup advertising, the tonally-jarring commercials...just can't do it. Gotta wait for the DVDs; painful though that is, it's less painful than deliberately diminishing my own enjoyment of the show.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:35 PM on June 8, 2015


You can also watch it the next day on NBC.com, which is free of commercials and ads during the stream.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


(I am actually online right now trying to see if I can get my ISP to send me a free cable box just so I can watch Hannibal live though)
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:03 PM on June 8, 2015


I totally thought that was Littlefinger too.
posted by jeather at 2:46 PM on June 8, 2015


It is amazing how much of the Taylor swift oveure fits into the Will/Hannibal relationship
posted by The Whelk at 2:49 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]


Okay, so, she pulled his tongue out.
Is anybody else like *how the hell would that work wouldn't he basically bite her arm to death* or are we supposed to wait for it.
posted by angrycat at 3:52 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


But she solves crimes,
I buy knives.
She's CSI,
and I'm making artwork.
I'm dreaming about the day you wake up and realize,
That your design has been here the whole time.

If you can see I'm the one who understands you,
Been cooking for you this whole time so why can't you see,
You belong to meeeeee,
You belong to me.
posted by codacorolla at 4:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]


Also, you can buy a season pass at the apple on-line store which allows you to download the latest episode commercial-free mere hours after it airs on NBC.
posted by echolalia67 at 7:17 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


I totally meant to comment this before but realized I forgot:

Unfortunately, I've never seen him in the locker rooms, so no details there, mostly around the weights area. Wears a sort of Euro tracksuit thing (Joma, I think, or maybe Mizuno), which seems appropriate. Certainly looks like he knows what he's doing, without making a big show of it.

I'm pretty sure, because Tumblr is obsessed with this sort of thing, that you'd be seeing him in a sort of Euro tracksuit thing if you saw him out to dinner, or shopping, or doing anything else. Fuller's talked about how he's pretty obsessed with Hannibal's clothes and Mads just cannot possibly give a fuck.

Anyway, that aside:

The poorer video and sound quality, the popup advertising, the tonally-jarring commercials...just can't do it.

I'm only just barely able to manage it, it is really absolutely terrible now. I'm not in the Apple ecosystem, and honestly even a small delay feels like too much. I think I gloss over most of the awfulness (I got bluescreened several times during Antipasto) because I'm so ZOMG over what's happening, but I enjoy it considerably more on rewatch. It feels hard to justify cable if I'm still going to get commercials and all that. I'm not sure there's a good solution.
posted by Sequence at 10:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


We watched the season two finale and this episode back-to-back last night. My wife is in a room with the shades drawn, rocking back and forth. I sit in front of the computer, as numb as one of Abel Gideon's limb stumps.
posted by Ber at 8:55 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]


My wife is in a room with the shades drawn, rocking back and forth. I sit in front of the computer, as numb as one of Abel Gideon's limb stumps.

Bryan Fuller cackles maniacally: "Job done!"
posted by crossoverman at 3:29 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]


Sequence: I'm only just barely able to manage it, it is really absolutely terrible now. I'm not in the Apple ecosystem, and honestly even a small delay feels like too much.

Amazon Instant Video also has the season passes for the show.

Seriously, I nearly lost my damn mind every damn week last year due to baseball games running over. If it weren't for being able to watch it interruption free later that night, someone would have gotten hurt down at the local affiliate station. The season passes are worth every penny.
posted by echolalia67 at 7:20 PM on June 9, 2015


How quickly do those episodes post?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:05 PM on June 9, 2015


If I remember correctly, it's usually by midnight of the evening the episode is broadcast, Pacific Standard Time.
posted by echolalia67 at 10:42 PM on June 9, 2015


Bah! I'm on the East Coast :(

Guess I can always watch it over breakfast on Friday and start the day off weird
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:14 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


Can't deal with Hannibal? Scream, scream into your cup.
posted by maggieb at 3:45 PM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hello friends. The party can start now.

I feel like I knew Dimmond when I was an undergraduate. Didn't like him then either. He has the type down perfectly.

His eyes look like raisins. Literally, like the Pillsbury Dough Boy's. He has that in common with Clark Ingram. Just another common or garden psychopath.

Seems they are pointing a finger at the audience a bit, setting up some "come to Jesus" stuff over the rest of the season, asking us what we were thinking rooting for him like that. If we stop liking him, though, it's hard to sustain the show so they're really taking some risks if they're doing this.

I guess according to Gideon, Hannibal will be subjected to an attempted eating at the end of this season and/or the end of the series as a whole. (I've settled on the idea that someone will kidnap Hannibal and try to brainwash him, rather than vice versa, and eating can be a part of that.)

I think it's bloody rude of Hannibal to feed Bedelia flavorizing foods, after all she's done for him. Won't get fooled again, eh, Hannibal? You bastard, and at the same time, how self-defeating.

I thought that her returning to her home was her returning to face the inevitable. As showbiz_liz said, Bedelia's realistic options were few, so it would make sense for her to run towards the danger. After the showdown last season Bedelia's house was the only place I could think of that Hannibal would have gone to shower and change. He likely stashed a go bag there ahead of time, otherwise he wouldn't have had a change of clothes.

And yeah, all those shots of her walking around Florence looking nicely inconspicuous. The feathery scarf made her look like game in the delicatessen.

I like that they are letting their overtly-middle-aged leading lady look overtly middle-aged and not taking desperate measures with filters and who knows what. If it's good enough for the male lead to look overtly middle-aged, it's good enough for the leading lady. This can only be a change for the better.

Poor old Gideon, though.

Alana can't have been spending that much time at Hannibal's house, really. Not with all these permanent or semi-permanent house guests spending as much time in the public areas of his house as Gideon did.
posted by tel3path at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh, and EVERYONE! EVERYONE who sees through Hannibal, EVERYONE has to deal with it by giving him knowing looks and tapping the side of their nose while saying "Naughty Hannibal! I know just what you are up to! Just think how dangerous I could be if I divulged your - " aaaand another one bites the dust.

Jeez Louise, does nobody in the Hanniverse have ANY game face AT ALL? Deception is an alien concept to every single person on this show ever! The ONLY person who has EVER thought "hey, wouldn't it be a good idea to say things that are not true? then other people wouldn't know what I was really doing!" is Hannibal himself!
posted by tel3path at 4:58 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also, that's an impractically fucking huge hat. A brim that wide is just going to flop around and get in your eyes.

I thought the blue outfit was surprisingly cheap-looking. Which maybe says something about the often-impressive quality of cheap hats, but that blue hat is not too far off something I bought at H&M a couple of years ago. The blue coat seemed like it almost didn't fit her.
posted by tel3path at 5:04 PM on June 10, 2015


And it's really striking how they manage to make it all seem like it's going at a snail's pace, and I can already hear the complaints of "here we go again with the filler so much filler" and WHILE this "filler" is happening 27 major characters are experiencing an entire soap opera lifetime's worth of life-changing exaggerated events, each in their own separate thread, all in the space between two commercial breaks.
posted by tel3path at 5:23 PM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


If I remember correctly, it's usually by midnight of the evening the episode is broadcast, Pacific Standard Time.

Woe, as an Ohioan with a day job, I think I'm stuck with this for now, as I'm quite sure I can't wait until Friday night and also quite sure that--

Well, okay, if I went to bed as soon as I got home, and got up at 3am--

No, no, that way madness lies. I think I'm going to keep suffering through the network. I was considering cable, but aside from the fact that it always seems silly from a financial perspective, I'm only employed for another week and a half and I can't go spending money on stupid stuff. Sigh.
posted by Sequence at 5:28 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


I feel like I knew Dimmond when I was an undergraduate. Didn't like him then either. He has the type down perfectly.

Ah yes ... the TA who throws impromptu "study groups" at the campus pub with a 5:1 female to male ratio, inviting only the most socially awkward guys in the class to act as his foil. Lots of shoulder squeezes and lingering hands on the hips of female students. The inevitable courting, humping, then dumping of some unlucky girl right before finals; it was like watching a horror movie where you want to scream "don't go in the house you nitwit, RUN" but you know it won't do any good. Yes, I too know his type and it was somewhat satisfying to see him get his comeuppance ... does that make me a bad person?
posted by echolalia67 at 8:56 PM on June 10, 2015 [5 favorites]


No they pretty much deserve to be beaned in the head with a stone bust
posted by The Whelk at 10:02 PM on June 10, 2015


When Evil English Will Graham showed up in the first scene and started trashtalking someone, my first thought was, "Oh... Oh, dude. Bad move. You just wandered into the wrong show for that kind of shit. Leave. Leave now."
posted by brundlefly at 1:03 AM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Oh, and for the record.

I ordered myself an Indian dinner with a hot fudge sundae dessert, and sat there happily shoveling lamb Tawa Monsoon into my mouth while watching Tome-Wan , followed by Mizumono

(and yes I was wrong all this time, the extra clip was in the preternaturally capacious purse she was carrying, not in a little overnight bag) (and when she went into the bedroom, there was a fire going in the fireplace, which strongly suggested someone else was upstairs while Hannibal was cooking in the kitchen)

And then I saved the hot fudge sundae for watching Antipasto. Unfortunately the ice cream tasted of pork fat which is... Not a good sign
posted by tel3path at 3:40 AM on June 11, 2015


Ugh though! Hannibal did NOT travel all the way to Paris to listen to some second-rate poet making a clack in his ear about some other second-rate poet.

Go away Anthony Dimmond. you're not clever
posted by tel3path at 3:47 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


it's not fair

now I have to wait over 24 hours for the next one
posted by tel3path at 3:59 AM on June 11, 2015


so I just read some good points over on Tumblr about the significance of the Gideon scenes.

at that point in Futamono, Will is in jail, just tried to kill Hannibal by cheating on him with another killer, and overtly and totally hates Hannibal.

there's Gideon sitting at the end of the table going, nyaah nyaah, you can't have Will Graham, you sad lonely loser! bronx cheer! Kidnapping and cumulative amputation followed by forced autocannibalism with the fake Chesapeake Ripper is the best you can do for dinner companionship! oh yeah, you are a roaring success in terms of social skills, buddy. And the only reason I'm complying with this is because I get to sit here telling you a few home truths which a true and you know it. Loser.

It was just before this that Hannibal started shagging Alana, which at one point in his personal history he might have delighted in, but now he's gotten a taste for emotional intimacy, he's running that anti-intimate relationship in parallel with a cheap knockoff copy of himself who hates him.

What has just happened or is about to happen is that Will is getting out of jail. and everything that follows, follows on the heels of Gideon taunting him that he'll never have Will.
posted by tel3path at 4:21 AM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


An outstanding opening episode. I've just finished watching it for the second time and I'm so looking forward to the next episode (psst project free tv). The score is sublime. Bedelia is such an elegant bundle of nerves. I love the way Hannibal can look so attractive and so ugly at the same time.
posted by h00py at 4:29 AM on June 11, 2015


Okay show you've had your fun teasing us but we do get to find out what happened after the Showdown at the Hannibal Corral tonight, right?
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:07 AM on June 11, 2015


Bedelia was surprisingly dumb for thinking she could just come along for the ride and watch.

That kind of denial right there tells us that she ran off with Hannibal because, as showbiz_liz enumerates, she really did not have any good choices.

I think Hannibal's disappointment in her self-deception is completely justified. "What would you have me do?" c'mon, Bedelia, what did you think was going to happen?
posted by tel3path at 5:19 AM on June 11, 2015


Bedelia was surprisingly dumb for thinking she could just come along for the ride and watch.

I don't think she thought that. I think she knew she'd eventually have to participate, but it's no less horrible when you know it's coming (Bedelia) than when you don't (Abigail).
posted by ocherdraco at 6:09 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Ugh though! Hannibal did NOT travel all the way to Paris to listen to some second-rate poet making a clack in his ear about some other second-rate poet.

I just loved how he was all "Fell is a terrible writer who churns out a new book every 6 months. It takes me six months to write one line [expectant pause]." Hannibal: [yawn, eyeroll] "Oh yes, why is that?" Dimmond: "Because poetry is hard."

BY THE WAY, DID I MENTION I'M A POET?

I work with a few similar creative writing narcissists, so it cheered me right up to see one get smacked in the noggin with a blunt object.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:38 AM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


I think Bedelia is still trying to get out of the non-Consentual vacation with something resembling her soul intact, not actively participating ...convincing herself she has to do it to survive ...while all the time a little voice is going "it would be so much easier if you just gave in and enjoyed this."

It's the same situation he keeps putting people in, either vampire converting them or making them into little murder interns. Although I think Bedelia probably got a lot closer to full vampire murder transformation then Will, whose bloodlust was there but wholly directed at the guy who you know, kills and eats people for a living and sent him to jail on a mass murder charge.
posted by The Whelk at 7:44 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I would really like to see the job application for a murder internship.
posted by Stacey at 7:59 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think it's step one, give Hannibal a vaguely murderous yet polite vibe; step two, respond appropriately by murdering the shit out of someone he plans for you to murder; step three, surprise, you passed! What do you mean you didn't apply? Welp, too late now.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


"must love darkness, staying out of sight, and abstract flowery metaphors."
posted by The Whelk at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


First part of the newest 99% Invisible is about the music on Hannibal. "Hrishikesh Hirway of the Song Exploder podcast spoke with evolutionary biologist Dan Blumstein, Hannibal executive producer David Slade, and composer Brian Reitzell." Worth a listen!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:16 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


"must be adorably innocent and corruptible OR a perfect reflection of my own otherworldly menace"

Will Graham: [is both]

Hannibal: [cartoon heart shape thumps comically out of plaid-covered chest]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:17 AM on June 11, 2015 [10 favorites]


Also also, I am going to the beach this weekend and have bought Red Dragon for a beach read.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:19 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


I took Red Dragon with me on a business trip last week for a re-read on the plane. I thought that was probably more socially acceptable than actually finishing up my S2 re-watch on the plane, thereby subjecting everyone around me to A) beautiful gory art murder and B) my helpless sobbing and incoherent whimpering.
posted by Stacey at 8:31 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


I just read Red Dragon and loved it, then passed it on to Mr. daisyk, who also enjoyed it. We watched this episode sitting in bed with chocolate and big cups of tea. Life is good.

I've read Silence of the Lambs but not Hannibal; should I?
posted by daisyk at 8:59 AM on June 11, 2015


At my Barnes and Noble there were 5 copies of Red Dragon with the cover facing out, 4 copies of Silence with spines out, and then one each of Hannibal and Hannibal Rising. Someone either at that branch or across the chain must be doing a little bit of capitalizing on the show, because it's pretty unusual for such an old book to get the cover-out treatment...
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:04 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


If you go into Book! Hannibal with the knowledge that it was written under duress and designed to be as unflimabke as posssibke, then it has some good bits.

I actually think the movie improved a lot on some of the squickier elements
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


Last year I (re)read all of Harris' books (including Black Sunday for the first time - which is interesting once you see where he went afterwards regarding the psychology of the protagonists.) Red Dragon and Silence still hold up as great thrillers, and I have a soft spot for Hannibal's complete over the top-ness and frankly bonkers ending. I couldn't finish Hannibal Rising.

I remember just happening to be in a bookshop on the day Hannibal came out. They had a table full of them by the door. While I browsed the shelves and queued to buy my copy, every couple of minutes someone would walk in, do a double take, pick up a copy and join the queue. They had to restock the table at one point. I doubt I'll see the like again.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:07 AM on June 11, 2015


You know, I really think showbiz_liz has Bedelia's motivations in a nutshell.

It's yet another of those things that the fandom yet again doesn't get.

I mean, you're Bedelia. You ran away to escape Hannibal. The FBI found you. Therefore Hannibal can find you if he wants to, and you know he only let you slide because he fixated on Will Graham, and that's about to go sideways. There's no point in running.

The law won't protect you. You've established that already. No hiding place.

Might as well go to the first place he'll look, IF he's still interested. And he is.

You find him in your shower. Castle doctrine says you can shoot him no questions asked, and you're hardly likely to get in trouble now, since Hannibal was on the run after committing (attempting) several murders, with evidence of many more certainly left behind in his house.

Maybe she doesn't kill Hannibal because oh, say, killing people is actually NOT fun for her, despite Hannibal's efforts to persuade her it is?

Maybe trying to understand Hannibal is Bedelia's way of trying to understand and master her own trauma. She might be thinking of it as Curiosity or Attraction and all those things may be somewhat true, but she just reads to me kind of like Quint in Jaws - or not wanting to be like Quint, spending her entire life waiting for the shark to eat her. I feel like she needs to work out her issues with him directly, and/or die trying.
posted by tel3path at 12:42 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Maybe trying to understand Hannibal is Bedelia's way of trying to understand and master her own trauma.

Ahh that makes a lot of sense, especially given the S2 line "I'm doing my best to avoid working out my issues with Hannibal Lecter."
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:49 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yeah - and honestly it's not all that unusual or pathological for people to try to understand people who've seriously victimized them.

One guy that Dennis Nilsen tried to kill, later wrote to him in prison, asking what about him had made Nilsen choose him. And Nilsen didn't really remember him all that much, which apparently is often the case with serial violators and their victims; the victim wasn't that important or memorable in the wrongdoer's mind.

As dogheart once highlighted in comparing Hannibal with The Wire - the reason Hannibal maltreats certain people the way he does, is because he finds too much importance and significance in those particular victims. They are that important.

I can see how, once someone had been pushed over the line and become someone who kills (for whatever reason) that would embolden them in their hunger to find these kinds of answers, since pursuing them will, or seems like it will, bring understanding about both your victimizer AND you. Not only that, but it's Hannibal's favourite most desired thing to do. You know if you make the right moves, he'll keep playing with you, at least for a while.

So if you're one of the select few victims to be offered the opportunity to understand the number-one question that traumatized people ask - WHY? - and all your other options in life have been shut down - why try to resist? Why not go into forbidden territory? Why not ruminate, brood and dwell, and why not do it by tapping into the primary source?

Of course therapists will tell you to "process" what happened to you but not to "brood" or "dwell", but have they ever actually tried to do that? You can't!

So if you can't be healthy why not go for broke. Hannibal eats some people and manipulates others to kill, you're broken and need therapy and/or imprisonment, Hannibal doesn't. Since it's too late for you anyway, why not gorge on unhealthy thoughts and perseverate on your obsessions? You only live once.
posted by tel3path at 1:07 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


Plus - it's flattering. This guy is superhuman in basically every way, and he takes an interest in YOU? Even though he's evil, that's compelling.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:11 PM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]


Yeah... flattering, or not flattering at all. And trying to figure out which one it is would also keep your attention on him.
posted by tel3path at 1:13 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


And actually... didn't Eddie Izzard totally rule in these scenes? He wasn't that great a Gideon the first time around, but as time went on, wow!

Maybe, of course, Gideon was supposed to come across as fake and unconvincing at first because he really really wasn't being himself. Gideon himself was enacting a role there that didn't suit him but had been fitted onto him off-the-rack by a third-rate stylist.
posted by tel3path at 1:16 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]




I thought early Gideon was still struggling with his accent (even though Izzard has played Americans before).
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:35 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


That and I think the character ... It's not the's uninteresting the first time he shows up, it's that when we see him next, he's even more interesting (and that's built off of that first appearance). A faux-Lecter? Sure, cool. That faux-Lecter knowing what he knows about both Will and Hannibal, and then being a complete fucker about it? That's fun. And it's only gotten even more fun since.
posted by sparkletone at 3:36 PM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


Speaking of prion diseases...
posted by tel3path at 4:04 PM on June 11, 2015


I think Gideon's strange accent helps with the third rate copy vibe he's got, it sounds fake -- but this fake copy is the only one he can talk too! This is as close as he can get to a symaothetic ear! And he keeps twisting the Will Graham knife!

When Will walked into the room in his "I'm ready to resume my treatment, doctor." Mode I bet Hannibal has to use all his superhuman focus to not spin around and dip him.
posted by The Whelk at 4:39 PM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's also hard not to read Hannibal like, constantly trying to top himself ...candied apples! Get it?! Snails eating you and then you eat them! GET IT HUH?! Desperate for an audience while Gideon is all "You know I don't buy this , at all, you're a weird murderous love sick pup who thinks he's god ...and so very lonely."
posted by The Whelk at 6:28 PM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


"Snails huh? Thanks for these plump dick metaphors bro"
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:53 PM on June 11, 2015


Gideon talks a lot of sense, always has.
posted by tel3path at 11:46 PM on June 11, 2015


And I'm contrasting Bedelia with Alana here. Alana didn't want Abigail to go home, partly because she was afraid that the intense emotion it stirred up would lead her to freak out. Those concerns were realistic, and as it turned out not all of them were solely caused by Hannibal's influence.

Right or wrong though, it was characteristic. Abigail comes out with "and you be the man on the phone" and Alana shuts her down, don't think about what happened that day, don't try to figure it out, we brought you home to help you leave home behind.

Then the Ripper brings Miriam into Jack's home and lays her on his bed, and after that Alana conplains that Jack is "obsessed" with catching the Ripper and she wants him to stop grooming Will to catch him and her concern isn't even for Will - implying that Jack's obsession with the Ripper is "unhealthy", so the fact that Will might find the Ripper is irrelevant. Alana thinks a lot, but she describes the amount of thinking she does as "too much". I don't believe any amount of thinking is too much, if its goal is to understand.

Alana's "professional curiosity" seems to be defined by a refusal to investigate and a disapproval of others investigating stuff. I don't want to know anything about Will that I shouldn't know as his friend. And so on. Alana seems to have no functional understanding of deception, and lives in a world that consists solely of appearances because it's taboo, unethical, against Constitutional rights to look at anything that's not in plain sight.

Alana Doesn't Know, Alana Is The Healthiest Character. (CD still says Alana is the healthiest.) Bedelia is the anti-Alana, the willing and witting accomplice.

Oh, and LF describing Will as fundamentally mad. Yeah, the definition of insanity is being able to fully understand the reality of what is happening to you and try your best to respond appropriately even when that's hard.

And here's Bedelia doing absolutely everything that goes against absolutely everything Alana believes in. Knowing Things! Looking For Answers! And therefore Bedelia is fucked up.

Meanwhile, Hannibal is of course totally sane and a reliable narrator. Sure he subjected these other characters to staggering amounts of trauma over an extended period of time, but, you know, he only chose them cuz he could see how fucked up they were. Not because he was.

Bedelia looked like she was wearing a halo in the promo stills, anyone notice that? I wonder how this is all going to pan out.

sooo... Since this is shaping up to be a season of overtly religious programming, I'm gonna say that: there is none that is righteous, not even one; and, the world counts the way of the Lord as insanity.
posted by tel3path at 2:14 AM on June 12, 2015


CLEOLINDA JONES RECAP IS LIVE
posted by The Whelk at 5:23 PM on June 20, 2015


Gasp, a Cleolinda recap!
posted by sparkletone at 5:24 PM on June 20, 2015


On my ongoing Harrisverse readthrough, I continue to be amazed by how directly the show adapts certain scenes, while of course blatantly ignoring other huge chunks. Just look at this:

http://i.imgur.com/HnQjK8I.jpg

And this bit of sass:

http://i.imgur.com/qUStOjO.jpg
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:07 AM on June 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


I think it says something about how thoroughly the show has become the version of these things that at the end of every sentence in that second bit I want to mentally add, "and he misses Will Graham."

Or maybe it just says something about me.
posted by sparkletone at 11:34 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


EVEN MORE BOOK STUFF (tell me if this gets old):

Dimmond's death scene, specifically the "this is participation, not observation" aspect, may have been inspired by a very different character named Gnocco from the book Hannibal. (linked in case it shows up in the show later in another form).
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:30 AM on June 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


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