Legends of Tomorrow: Blood Ties

February 5, 2016 2:38 PM - Season 1, Episode 3

Rip and Sara attempt to redistribute Vandal Savage's wealth. Snart takes Rory and Jax on an emotional field trip. Ray plays Asteroids in inner space.
posted by zjacreman (27 comments total)

They had Savage's helpless, incapacitated body at their feet... and they just left him there???

Why didn't they take him back to the ship and have Hawkgirl stab him? Or at least drop him in the Mariana trench, or a convenient volcano, or the sun? Are they stupid? Are the writers stupid? Do they think we're stupid? Was there only room in the trunk for one dead body?

I know CW DC shows don't, strictly speaking, make a lot of sense. But come on. They just skipped over the disposition of the body with a commercial break! Argh.

Sorry. Had to get that out.
posted by zjacreman at 2:46 PM on February 5, 2016 [11 favorites]

Are the writers stupid? Do they think we're stupid?

One of Savage's powers is to survive a whole season.


Also they never thought to kill baby Savage... one big time jump, Hawkgirl (a trustworthy priestess) could ask "Could I hold the baby?". *drop*. Everyone goes home.

I think there's a gas leak in the writers room...it would explain a lot.
posted by FallowKing at 3:58 PM on February 5, 2016

I think there's a gas leak in the writers room

Or an unsustainable premise for (at least) season 1, that was not critically questioned early enough in the process. If every episode is about getting Savage, this show is gonna suuuuuuuuuuuck.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:05 PM on February 5, 2016

Stupid seems to be the key concept for this episode. "Conveniently forgetful" seems to be the second one. Didn't Ray have nanite technology that he (well, Felicity) injected into his own body back in an Arrow episode that could have worked just as well on Hawkgirl? (Writers' out: he didn't bring it with him). Didn't John Constantine cure Sara, and thereby presumably fix her bloodlust? (Writer's out: he just returned her soul, he didn't cure the bloodlust.) How is there energy left in Hawkman's blood? (Writers' out: handwaving magic.)

Somebody who hasn't seen the episode yet asked me if it was any good. My reply was the parts we knew were going to be good (our favourite criminal pals doing what they do best and Canary taking down bad guys) were good. The parts we knew were going to be bad (bits with Vandal, bits with the Hawks, mopey Ray, etc.) were bad. I'm afraid we're in for an uneven bumpy season until the writers figure out what they want and how to get there.
posted by sardonyx at 4:10 PM on February 5, 2016

Also they never thought to kill baby Savage... one big time jump, Hawkgirl (a trustworthy priestess) could ask "Could I hold the baby?". *drop*. Everyone goes home.

I suppose Hawkgirl and Hawkguy wouldn't be doing their reincarnation thing through the ages then. But yeah, seems like Savage would be easier to take out in the far past than in the 20th - 21st c.

Why didn't they take him back to the ship and have Hawkgirl stab him? Or at least drop him in the Mariana trench, or a convenient volcano, or the sun? Are they stupid? Are the writers stupid? Do they think we're stupid? Was there only room in the trunk for one dead body?

Or hey, they have a time machine--dump him 10,000 years in the future!
posted by Pryde at 5:25 PM on February 5, 2016

My advice to the writers:
1.Fix the gas leak, I suspect you're all brain damaged by now, but you can still get treatment.
2.No more time travel. Plop everyone down in 2100 and let them do what they're going to do.
3.I don't care about anyone who isn't Snart or Sara, fix that.
4.Have your characters learn things. They can't know how to do everything all the time. Jefferson doesn't know how to fix a time machine. A manual isn't enough. At least have the ship walk him through it,
5.Bi-Sexuality is a thing, It's ok for Sara to have a male romantic interest.
6.Have your characters behave like a normal human would in that situation. There are exceptions but you clearly don't have the capability to know when to use them.
7.Killing off a character was good, he was unlikable and you made a good decision, keep it up and kill off characters that become unpopular or have fulfilled their use. You have a a large pool to draw from for new characters.
8.Define limitations for unknown technology and stick with them. This is science fiction so you have plenty of wiggle room. The atom suit needs to stick to a set of physics, it can't be human-safe and vulnerable to metal fragments one minute and impervious to impacts the next. (unless you explain why it can)
posted by FallowKing at 5:51 PM on February 5, 2016

I read the Tor.com recap and the comments were nitpicking the 70s slang and so on. There were parts of it that didn't work well but I'd way rather nitpick the plot.

I think they should have taken the dagger but it should be a back and forth football all season. Sometimes they have it, sometimes Savage gets it from them, go back and mess up his timeline by stealing it and then have it get stolen back, etc. That would be fun and timey wimey. I think Rip messing up and telling the names was less a slip on his part (though it was one) and more the timeline trying to fix itself, a la the way Snart's attempt to fix his timeline didn't change anything, and I think he realized that himself, which was part of the angsty face. IMO they need to engage with this head on, and maybe they will since we've seen both Snart and Stein unable to change their pasts and the implication is that Rip is in the process of being unable to change his.

FWIW, I'm here for Sara and the Cold/Heatwave duo, and I'm okay with the surviving members of the team, but I'm finding Rory/Rip surprisingly aesthetically enjoyable in his beardy angst.
posted by immlass at 7:32 PM on February 5, 2016

I'm still over here curled in a ball of Baby Leo Snart Feelings, so I'm handwaving the Vandal Savage fuckups under "stuff I don't care about." Though I gotta point out that they can't go back and kill baby Vandal, whatever, because that will fuck up history even MORE, a la killing Hitler; from Rip's perspective they want to kill Savage as close to his own time possible so Rip's existence doesn't get erased, but far enough away in time that Vandal doesn't rise to world-conquering power. It'll be tricky.

But anyway. BABY LEO SNART. Just fuck me up, show, just hit me where it hurts. Of course the first thing smirky criminal mastermind Leonard Snart does when he pulls a time-travel heist is go try to save his mom and unborn little sister (and baby self) from a lifetime of abuse. Of course BFF Mick recognizes immediately what Len's trying to do and lets him go anyway. Of course Len fails because Lewis Snart being a selfish abusive asshole is an unchangeable point in the universe. Of course Len is so good with his baby self because he basically raised Lisa himself. Don't look at me, I'm not crying, you're crying‼

I'm also not sure why Stein is being such an enormous jerk to Ray, unless it's the eventual satisfaction of Ray slamming him against a wall and choking him out. Please get therapy, Ray.

I predict it's actually going to be a plot point that Stein doesn't remember Ray as his student: at some point they'll change history in a way that erases that part of Ray's history, so present Stein doesn't remember Ray because they already changed the past.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:23 PM on February 5, 2016 [6 favorites]

They had Savage's helpless, incapacitated body at their feet... and they just left him there???

Dude yeah. My husband theorized that they actually "killed" him not just harmed him, so he would be dead and since Kendra didn't kill him then he would come back. But if that is the case - which I think is what they were going for (??) they didn't explain it AT.ALL.

But then even if that is the case, how does he come back? Isn't he in the same body? So like...couldn't they just keep his body locked up until he comes back and she can stab him? Or does he go all dusty like in Arrow then somehow re-form elsewhere?

Either way, that was all sorts of weird. Like, he knows that only Kendra can kill him so why not just hurt him instead of slitting his throat? Why not try to hurt him then more henchmen come in and they toss a grenade and they have to run or something? There were so many other ways to write that to actually make sense. I couldn't get over it.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:07 AM on February 6, 2016

Oh and I was super happy they did a Fantastic Voyage move with Ray. Because, of course you have to get the tiny man into someone's bloodstream for some reason. Yet, while The Flash is self-aware of and aware of this universe (The Avengers reference) I was really sad that they didn't do a goofy "What, you want me to go into her veins like in the Fantastic Voyage?" - "Yes that's exactly what we're going to do." thing.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:10 AM on February 6, 2016

They did have an iceberg/Titanic joke with Victor Garber!
posted by nicebookrack at 1:05 AM on February 6, 2016 [3 favorites]

They had Savage's helpless, incapacitated body at their feet... and they just left him there???

And deprive us of weeks of Cold/Heatwave/Canary?

Come on, the show's plots are ... dicey, but the on screen chemistry is *amazing*.
And don't we all want Season 2 to be DC's Rogue's Gallery?

Because I do.

Oh and I was super happy they did a Fantastic Voyage move with Ray. Because, of course you have to get the tiny man into someone's bloodstream for some reason.

Needs more murder... with tiny brain footsteps.
posted by Mezentian at 1:22 AM on February 6, 2016

This episode came close to causing me to give up on the show. I zoned out for parts of it -- seriously, I'd catch myself staring off to the side of the television and I'd think, oh, what am I doing? Uh, I guess I was so bored with this, I temporarily lost consciousness.

Garber is such a talented actor (I was looking at 70s Tony nominations the other day -- hey, they missed the opportunity for a sly meta) and I have always liked him a lot, and although I was never that thrilled with this character on the The Flash, I tolerated it. But, god, I hate this character on this show and the lines they are giving Garber are almost an insult.

And although I haven't mentioned it before, I've been having trouble with Rip from the beginning, even though (unlike many other people), I liked Darvill on Doctor Who and, all things equal, I'm happy to see him here. But he's wrong for this role and I find that my dislike of this character grows each episode.

Continuing this theme, I liked Hawkgirl on The Flash, but I find her completely boring and insipid on this show. I think maybe she seemed better before when contrasted against Hawkmeh's awfulness, but now that isn't (for the moment) propping her up.

And, yeah, Ray... I think I fall asleep every time he utters more than two words in a row.

I don't particularly hate Jax or even dislike him, and he's not boring the way that Ray is. But he's definitely uninteresting. He's mostly just kind of there.

I have nothing more to say about the plotting than what's already been written. This episode was dumb and, yeah, the series premise of trying (and necessarily failing) to kill Vandal Savage throughout history is inherently broken. It hadn't occurred to me before this thread that they could resolve this in the first season and find some other reason for this group (and the show) to continue, but that would help. Although despite the actor's scenery-chewing, Vandal Savage is, in my opinion, one of the actually (though mildly) compelling characters.

So, at the risk of repeating what I've already written before and many other people have also said numerous times, the trio of Snart, Rory, and Lance account for 85% of the reason to watch this show. But they don't account for anything remotely close to 85% of the screentime. Sigh.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:00 AM on February 6, 2016

Not even watching this anymore. Just enjoying the FanFare ranting. I'm sure you'll let me know if it gets good or something.
posted by amtho at 7:27 AM on February 6, 2016

I don't expect it to be good; I just kind of half watch it and think how lucky 10 year olds are these days.
posted by Catblack at 8:46 AM on February 6, 2016

My husband theorized that they actually "killed" him not just harmed him, so he would be dead and since Kendra didn't kill him then he would come back.

I thought Rip stabbed him to death with the knife and then was so agitated that he didn't think to bring it. I hope I'm wrong on the last part. It wasn't very clear.
posted by immlass at 9:45 AM on February 6, 2016

Can't they just do a series about Snart, Rory and Lance ? I would watch the shit out of that !
posted by Pendragon at 1:07 PM on February 6, 2016 [1 favorite]

FallowKing's comment that "5.Bi-Sexuality is a thing, It's ok for Sara to have a male romantic interest" will be acted upon by the writers.

As we all know, it's a rule there has to be one "in-house" romance in every TV show. In this case it's got to be Sara and Rip. Martin's married and too old. Jax is too young. You can't permanently insert a woman into the Hot-Cold bromance (although outside-the-team temporary liaisons are fine). Despite his pathetic, sad puppy/terminal "nice guy" personality, Ray comes physically closest to a Hollywood leading man type and we know he's unlucky in love (dead wife, rejected by Felicity) so he's available to romance ladies through history. Hawkgirl will still be pining for Carter, so that just leaves Rip and Sara. And we can already see the writers moving to make those two feel more empathetic toward each other, so now it's just playing the will-they-or-won't-they waiting game.

Of course, there will be bumps along romance road, so that leaves openings for Canary to find some female rivals for Rip's attention.
posted by sardonyx at 7:19 PM on February 6, 2016

"Here, drink this, my loyal followers. It means we don't have to find new actors to replace you or go to the effort of aging you with makeup."

Who has their cannibalistic ritual in a hotel conference room? And I'm pretty sure when all the cultists are running around in a panic, none of them actually try to leave. I think they're just running in circles. And as mentioned above: defeating Savage, but leaving him there for no reason? That makes zero sense. Take his head at least. Put him in a box and weld the fucking thing shut. Yes I know they can't write him out yet for plot reasons, but they wrote everything up to the point where he's incapacitated and having the crew not even try to permanently stop him is just super bizarre.

I might just be done here. I mean god damn.
posted by ODiV at 7:34 PM on February 6, 2016

Started watching this earlier, bailed before the first act was done. I love time travel, but 3 episodes in and we're still in 1975......? Is that just the lowest budget time period to recreate or something?

I, too, think I'm done until I read better reports.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:48 PM on February 6, 2016

Re: the RipSara-mance -- the issue I have with their romancing is that the whole raison d'etre for this show is to save Rip's wife and son. Meanwhile Rip and Sara get involved? Yuck.
posted by insert.witticism.here at 9:00 AM on February 7, 2016

There is so much wrong with this trainwreck of a show, I feel like the writer's room is just 100 monkeys on 100 typewriters. I mean, in no particular order:

1. Sending the auto mechanic kid to fix your little spaceship, when you have a tech genius engineer on staff.

2. Retconning Sarah's stupid bloodlust back in. There was a whole stupid big deal crossover episode of Arrow to get rid of it! And even with it, it's stupid. It's OK to kill the murderous minions of your genocidal enemy who were just drinking the blood of your friend, Sarah. If you don't kill them, they will literally end the world.

3. Killing Savage and then just leaving him there to regenerate. You have a spaceship. Fly out, throw him out an airlock towards the sun, and let him spend the next billion years burning alive. Or if you can't fly into space, travel to the day before the sun goes nova, throw him out the door, and go home. Problem solved. Or, at the very least, make him your damn captive.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:48 PM on February 7, 2016

Everything you need to know about characterization on this show:

Sara, episode 1: "C'mon boys, I wanna dance!"
Sara, episode 3: "I've never been much of a dancer..."
posted by Ian A.T. at 6:51 PM on February 7, 2016 [8 favorites]

Needs more murder... with tiny brain footsteps.

That's hand in hand with cape rape. Pass.
posted by phearlez at 10:33 AM on February 8, 2016

I liked the part when DC Antman broke up the metal fragments inside of young Rosario Dawson while Sidney Bristow's dad looked on. It's a good thing Rory had all of that supporting tech in his spaceship, though. Egyptian Coldplay guy is still dead, though, right?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:56 PM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ugh, this episode was such a mess. I agree with all the disappointments in this thread. Feels like they plucked random writers across different networks and told them they're all destined to write a great show when in reality they're the disposable ones and won't amount to much.
posted by numaner at 8:14 AM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I like certain characters--Sara, Snart, Ray. I usually like Dr. Stein, but what's with his being a jerk ("oh, I don't remember you" "wait yes I do, I lied" "no, I still don't"). On the other hand, Jax is unpleasant, I'm pretty neutral on everyone else for now, and the plot is dumb.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:06 PM on February 28, 2016