Star Trek: Picard: Disengage
February 23, 2023 6:03 AM - Season 3, Episode 2 - Subscribe
Confronted by a mysterious warship while rescuing Dr. Beverly Crusher, Picard and Riker discover they don't know Jack.
Memory Alpha is always engaging:
• Ed Speleers (Jack Crusher) is best known for his role as Jimmy Kent in the historical drama series Downton Abbey (2012-14) and as Stephen Bonnet in the fantasy romance series Outlander (2018-2020), created by Ronald D. Moore.
• Amy Earhart, who voices the Eleos computer, appeared as a Vulcan delegate in the Star Trek: Enterprise fourth season episodes "Demons" and "Terra Prime" [FF previously --ed.]. She is a distant cousin of Amelia Earhart, a topic of one Star Trek: Voyager episode [FF previously --ed.]. Earhart is perhaps best known for her performance as Stacey in the internet Star Wars-based short series Pink Five. Since December 2006, she has been married to Picard showrunner and former Enterprise writer and production assistant Terry Matalas.
"Bring them all on board. We're basically a hotel now."
- Cpt. Shaw
"She threw a ship at us...sir."
- Ens. La Forge
Poster's Log:
Do all big evil spaceships go BWAAAAAMP? Is Hans Zimmer secretly a spaceship engineer?
I am enjoying the more liberal use of exterior ship shots that aren't too muddy or rushed, as well as what seems so far to be a more down-to-earth storyline. The writing is…not improving, but it's also just kind of strange: it's straining characters' motivations so hard in order to put element A in slot B so that setpiece C can occur—it's "functional" writing, to use Mrs.'s phrasing—and yet the pace of these episodes is admirably, well, not-rushed. It seems like writing that's strained in this fashion tends to be at least partly because a show is trying to cram too much stuff in too little runtime. I guess that could be the case with the Raffi material. I'm happy to see Worf, of course (and he looks AWESOME with white hair), but her story feels completely peripheral at this stage, parts of it do indeed feel rushed, and the Jae scene could not have been more formulaic.
That fleeting mention of a mysterious "photonic" reading is enough to explain Vadic's arsenal at least: she and/or her ship must be some manner of deadly holograms. Considering Riker's examination of the weird ashes in the last episode, maybe these holograms are fused with just enough replicated matter to ensure deadliness, or something. That might also explain the "trust no one" stuff: perhaps Vadic has operatives (or surveillance code) throughout every major power in the quadrant, to feed her data from which to make more weapons and/or goons. If I'm right, we may soon have a scene where they take out a component of the Shrike, only to watch it rematerialize immediately thereafter. (And if this IS her gimmick, a functioning crimson force field would be a hilarious callback.)
Maybe I'm overreacting to some little things in this episode, but I have a bad feeling that this season might actually be one long backdoor pilot for a Jack Crusher series. I'm not yet sold on the character's concept—a medical pirate or something?—nor on the performance, which strikes me as laid on a bit thick (though YMMV; perhaps I am not the target audience for this variety of roguish smolder). Maybe the heavy Maroon-Uni-Trek overtones here will mean that Jack dies, a la David Marcus.
What I would be all-in on is a Captain Seven series; Jeri Ryan's probably in my top 10 of Trek acting chops, and I feel like her strongest mode is "constrained by circumstances and pissed about it," which she's getting lots of here, and would also get a lot of as a starship captain.
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
Maybe the darkest thing Stream Trek has done so far is give Sisko's baseball to Sneed. That right there made him possibly the most detestable Ferengi yet. As a result, watching Worf behead him was quite satisfying; less so was Worf failing to spot it and grab it.
Picard's last maybe-son (not counting Cloney McRomupants) was in TNG: "Bloodlines", which I remember as a pretty good ep—one of Stewart's more subtly impressive performances.
Memory Alpha is always engaging:
• Ed Speleers (Jack Crusher) is best known for his role as Jimmy Kent in the historical drama series Downton Abbey (2012-14) and as Stephen Bonnet in the fantasy romance series Outlander (2018-2020), created by Ronald D. Moore.
• Amy Earhart, who voices the Eleos computer, appeared as a Vulcan delegate in the Star Trek: Enterprise fourth season episodes "Demons" and "Terra Prime" [FF previously --ed.]. She is a distant cousin of Amelia Earhart, a topic of one Star Trek: Voyager episode [FF previously --ed.]. Earhart is perhaps best known for her performance as Stacey in the internet Star Wars-based short series Pink Five. Since December 2006, she has been married to Picard showrunner and former Enterprise writer and production assistant Terry Matalas.
"Bring them all on board. We're basically a hotel now."
- Cpt. Shaw
"She threw a ship at us...sir."
- Ens. La Forge
Poster's Log:
Do all big evil spaceships go BWAAAAAMP? Is Hans Zimmer secretly a spaceship engineer?
I am enjoying the more liberal use of exterior ship shots that aren't too muddy or rushed, as well as what seems so far to be a more down-to-earth storyline. The writing is…not improving, but it's also just kind of strange: it's straining characters' motivations so hard in order to put element A in slot B so that setpiece C can occur—it's "functional" writing, to use Mrs.'s phrasing—and yet the pace of these episodes is admirably, well, not-rushed. It seems like writing that's strained in this fashion tends to be at least partly because a show is trying to cram too much stuff in too little runtime. I guess that could be the case with the Raffi material. I'm happy to see Worf, of course (and he looks AWESOME with white hair), but her story feels completely peripheral at this stage, parts of it do indeed feel rushed, and the Jae scene could not have been more formulaic.
That fleeting mention of a mysterious "photonic" reading is enough to explain Vadic's arsenal at least: she and/or her ship must be some manner of deadly holograms. Considering Riker's examination of the weird ashes in the last episode, maybe these holograms are fused with just enough replicated matter to ensure deadliness, or something. That might also explain the "trust no one" stuff: perhaps Vadic has operatives (or surveillance code) throughout every major power in the quadrant, to feed her data from which to make more weapons and/or goons. If I'm right, we may soon have a scene where they take out a component of the Shrike, only to watch it rematerialize immediately thereafter. (And if this IS her gimmick, a functioning crimson force field would be a hilarious callback.)
Maybe I'm overreacting to some little things in this episode, but I have a bad feeling that this season might actually be one long backdoor pilot for a Jack Crusher series. I'm not yet sold on the character's concept—a medical pirate or something?—nor on the performance, which strikes me as laid on a bit thick (though YMMV; perhaps I am not the target audience for this variety of roguish smolder). Maybe the heavy Maroon-Uni-Trek overtones here will mean that Jack dies, a la David Marcus.
What I would be all-in on is a Captain Seven series; Jeri Ryan's probably in my top 10 of Trek acting chops, and I feel like her strongest mode is "constrained by circumstances and pissed about it," which she's getting lots of here, and would also get a lot of as a starship captain.
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
Maybe the darkest thing Stream Trek has done so far is give Sisko's baseball to Sneed. That right there made him possibly the most detestable Ferengi yet. As a result, watching Worf behead him was quite satisfying; less so was Worf failing to spot it and grab it.
Picard's last maybe-son (not counting Cloney McRomupants) was in TNG: "Bloodlines", which I remember as a pretty good ep—one of Stewart's more subtly impressive performances.
Shaw is somehow the most interesting character on the show to me.
I concur; Todd Stashwick is a subtly good actor who is taking what is written for him on the page and somehow making it work.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
I concur; Todd Stashwick is a subtly good actor who is taking what is written for him on the page and somehow making it work.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
It occurs to me that between Star Trek VI and this, we have (I think) seen the first occasion of two generations of performers playing big bads in Star Trek.
That’s all I got.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:52 AM on February 23, 2023
That’s all I got.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:52 AM on February 23, 2023
And oh yes, “afternoon in the Sol system” is the newest iteration of, “It was raining on the planet Mongo.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:57 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:57 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Todd Stashwick is a subtly good actor who is taking what is written for him on the page and somehow making it work.
In the first episode, I thought it was just that in the midst of all the nostalgia and awe the show was trying to evoke, having a character who didn't give a shit about Riker and Picard and their status was great (outside of the deadnaming of Seven which was an asshole move in the writing); now it's the fact that he's the by-the-book captain amidst all the improvisational leaders that is a lot of fun, and Stashwick is making that happen by how he's elevating the material.
He needs a spinoff.
posted by nubs at 11:05 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the first episode, I thought it was just that in the midst of all the nostalgia and awe the show was trying to evoke, having a character who didn't give a shit about Riker and Picard and their status was great (outside of the deadnaming of Seven which was an asshole move in the writing); now it's the fact that he's the by-the-book captain amidst all the improvisational leaders that is a lot of fun, and Stashwick is making that happen by how he's elevating the material.
He needs a spinoff.
posted by nubs at 11:05 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
I like how he took what should have been a really jarring 180° face-turn, and made it seem smooth and natural.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
It occurs to me that between Star Trek VI and this, we have (I think) seen the first occasion of two generations of performers playing big bads in Star Trek.
You... you're right.
As for the ep, well, "functional" works. I do like how comically overgunned the Shrike is; it reminded me of occasional posts on one of the Trek reddits from some mil-SF fans about how they think all Starfleet ships should basically be the Warship Voyager. Especially the whatever-it-is-that's-pointed-at-them. ("Oh, this little thing? We like to call it... the Star Trek V.") I'm also hoping that some of Worf's guys grabbed the baseball, assuming that a) he's not soloing and b) that it's actually Sisko's. (What I wouldn't give for a throwaway line that it's a Mark McGwire* ball that used to belong to Todd McFarlane...)
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
You... you're right.
As for the ep, well, "functional" works. I do like how comically overgunned the Shrike is; it reminded me of occasional posts on one of the Trek reddits from some mil-SF fans about how they think all Starfleet ships should basically be the Warship Voyager. Especially the whatever-it-is-that's-pointed-at-them. ("Oh, this little thing? We like to call it... the Star Trek V.") I'm also hoping that some of Worf's guys grabbed the baseball, assuming that a) he's not soloing and b) that it's actually Sisko's. (What I wouldn't give for a throwaway line that it's a Mark McGwire* ball that used to belong to Todd McFarlane...)
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Still not convinced this show is going to be great, but it at least seems more fun than the first two seasons. Unsure whether to align myself more with the jokes about “makes sense that the Star Trek show starring Patrick Stewart finally gets consistently watchable in season 3” or “time to give this struggling Star Trek show a shot in the arm by adding Worf”
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
Stephen Bonnet! I barely recognized him!
posted by sixswitch at 3:09 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 3:09 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
For any one with an optimistic take, well... here's your garbage writing payoff.
posted by peeedro at 6:33 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 6:33 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
This was...not bad? (Aside from most of Raffi's dialogue. And Jack too obviously hurling himself out of the doorway before the explosion. And security apparently being too absent-minded to search Jack before they stuck him in the brig.) I agree that Shaw is, to my bemusement, turning out to be the most interesting character so far.
Given that Moriarty is waiting in the wings, having a semi-holoship would actually make sense. The captain also seemed suspiciously tapped-in to Starfleet's computers.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:42 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Given that Moriarty is waiting in the wings, having a semi-holoship would actually make sense. The captain also seemed suspiciously tapped-in to Starfleet's computers.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:42 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Imagine having a child with one guy and then naming that kid after your dead ex-husband. I know Jack Crusher was a friend of Picard, but geez.
posted by crossoverman at 6:49 PM on February 23, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 6:49 PM on February 23, 2023 [21 favorites]
In case he sounded familiar to anyone else, Sneed was played by Aaron Stanford who played James Cole in 12 Monkeys opposite Todd Stashwick’s antagonist Deacon. (And of course Picard showrunner Terry Matalas was one of the creators behind the TV adaptation of 12 Monkeys.)
posted by nathan_teske at 7:04 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 7:04 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I give this episode a C, like the first. Not as bad as season 2, but not really good either.
I got a little over halfway through and paused it to check how much longer the episode was.
Oh golly gee, he’s Picard’s son. DUH.
I really wish this show were better. I’m a huge nerd for TNG but this ain’t doing it.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:08 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I got a little over halfway through and paused it to check how much longer the episode was.
Oh golly gee, he’s Picard’s son. DUH.
I really wish this show were better. I’m a huge nerd for TNG but this ain’t doing it.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:08 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s absolutely not this, but I was just thinking maybe Jack is actually Beverly’s husband and Wesley’s dad, time-shifted and young in his own biological time. River Song style.
Which would give weird, timey-wimey tragedy to the whole JL-Bev-Jack backstory from TNG, as well as making her JL’s widowed daughter in law.
posted by gauche at 7:10 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Which would give weird, timey-wimey tragedy to the whole JL-Bev-Jack backstory from TNG, as well as making her JL’s widowed daughter in law.
posted by gauche at 7:10 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Even in Season 1, I felt that the actors really made the terrible writing better than it had any credit to claim, and that continues to be the case. Not just Todd Stashwick, but Alison Pill, Santiago Cabrera, Jeri Ryan esepcially. Without the performances, this show would not have gotten as far as it has.
Every "big" moment so far has been guessed way ahead of time by practically everybody. Is there anyone who went into this season not knowing that Ed Speelers would be Crusher and Picard's love child? Did we all not figure out within ten seconds that Raffi's handler was Worf? Are we all not confident that Deanna Troi is gonna get fridged?
posted by briank at 7:28 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Every "big" moment so far has been guessed way ahead of time by practically everybody. Is there anyone who went into this season not knowing that Ed Speelers would be Crusher and Picard's love child? Did we all not figure out within ten seconds that Raffi's handler was Worf? Are we all not confident that Deanna Troi is gonna get fridged?
posted by briank at 7:28 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
did anyone else laugh at Sneed’s name because of the Simpsons joke
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:03 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:03 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I enjoyed this, but then I've tended to enjoy most of this and DISCO, despite the weaknesses therin.
One thing I struggle with, though, is the very-definitely-mid-30s dude playing a putative 20-yo. And a 20 y.o. with QUITE the rap sheet.
I am totally here for badass Worf though - he looks great with hair, and that is, for me, the first time I BELIEVE a klingon is a badass, rather than just a bully with weird ridges.
posted by coriolisdave at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
One thing I struggle with, though, is the very-definitely-mid-30s dude playing a putative 20-yo. And a 20 y.o. with QUITE the rap sheet.
I am totally here for badass Worf though - he looks great with hair, and that is, for me, the first time I BELIEVE a klingon is a badass, rather than just a bully with weird ridges.
posted by coriolisdave at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yes, finally silver fox Worf + vorpal bat'leth
(seriously, I'm all there for this but all previous bat'leth battles dragged on and on with clang clang clang and no slice or barely even a stab)
posted by mephisjo at 8:52 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
(seriously, I'm all there for this but all previous bat'leth battles dragged on and on with clang clang clang and no slice or barely even a stab)
posted by mephisjo at 8:52 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
n-thing Todd Stashwick love, and yes, '12 Monkeys' (2015-2018) is under-rated and Stashwick also elevated that series. 🎵 Don't you, forget about me...
n-thing silverback Worf! Although rather out of character. I need some backstory to that. Riker, sure, divorce from a telepath. But Worf? Is he with Troy again now?
n-thing Ed Speleers (Jack Crusher) looking aristocratic (inbred) English (kind of like Freddie Fox in 'Slow Horses,' Matt Smith, Cumberbatch) and waaay older than his purported age - unless, it was "selflessness turning down longevity treatments and donating it to the disadvantaged" /s.
Mefi Orange Swan used to note when cigarette/ smoking onscreen was a sign that the character is a villain (mostly).
I'm really not buying the wordbuilding for the season's (apparent) Baddie.
Or will this be a commentary that we are supposed to look beyond our own preferences and prejudices and that we are being tricked into being against the reasonably apparent Baddie? /s (maybe; if they make them "smell bad," too, then..)
posted by porpoise at 9:21 PM on February 23, 2023
n-thing silverback Worf! Although rather out of character. I need some backstory to that. Riker, sure, divorce from a telepath. But Worf? Is he with Troy again now?
n-thing Ed Speleers (Jack Crusher) looking aristocratic (inbred) English (kind of like Freddie Fox in 'Slow Horses,' Matt Smith, Cumberbatch) and waaay older than his purported age - unless, it was "selflessness turning down longevity treatments and donating it to the disadvantaged" /s.
Mefi Orange Swan used to note when cigarette/ smoking onscreen was a sign that the character is a villain (mostly).
I'm really not buying the wordbuilding for the season's (apparent) Baddie.
Or will this be a commentary that we are supposed to look beyond our own preferences and prejudices and that we are being tricked into being against the reasonably apparent Baddie? /s (maybe; if they make them "smell bad," too, then..)
posted by porpoise at 9:21 PM on February 23, 2023
So far it's... fine, enjoyable even.
But there is something about the writing, and I don't know quite what, that makes it feel like it's going to nosedive into terrible pretty quick.
This may be unfair, but it feels like it's using all it's got to just stay where it is and in an episode or two it's just going to find there's nothing left in the tank.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:11 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
But there is something about the writing, and I don't know quite what, that makes it feel like it's going to nosedive into terrible pretty quick.
This may be unfair, but it feels like it's using all it's got to just stay where it is and in an episode or two it's just going to find there's nothing left in the tank.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:11 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
My theory is that Vadic *is* Moriarty, in disguise; cadence of speech and penchant for scenery-chewing with faux-affability are all similar, and Moriarty has good cause for a grudge against the Enterprise crew. Also good reason to disguise himself (which should be trivial for a hologram). And “master space criminal” is certainly the gig Moriarty would choose.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 3:39 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 3:39 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
“Vadic is Moriarty” would also explain how Vadic read Shawn’s psych profile; presumably, a computer program found it easy to steal *all* the Starfleet psych profiles.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 3:45 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 3:45 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Unless it's a huge bluff, giving away Moriarty in the trailer was a ... courageous decision.
posted by ewan at 7:13 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ewan at 7:13 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm confused by the length of time we're talking about here—The flashback to Jack delivering medical supplies and getting recognized by the Fenris Rangers was stated as 2 weeks ago, but Jack says both "First it was the Fenris Rangers…we've been running for months" and a bit later "we've been limping by for weeks".
A "red woman" and also a "marked woman"?
Also noticed a bit of a callback: Clinca Las Mariposas was the 21st century clinic that Ramirez ran back in S2, while Jack claims Eleos is a Mariposa medical vessel.
Since the only thing that makes sense is that the Raffi storyline has to intersect the Crusher storyline, I suppose one possibility is that one or both of the Crushers was also undercover. So maybe we shouldn't believe Jack's rap sheet to be particularly true.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 9:20 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
A "red woman" and also a "marked woman"?
Also noticed a bit of a callback: Clinca Las Mariposas was the 21st century clinic that Ramirez ran back in S2, while Jack claims Eleos is a Mariposa medical vessel.
Since the only thing that makes sense is that the Raffi storyline has to intersect the Crusher storyline, I suppose one possibility is that one or both of the Crushers was also undercover. So maybe we shouldn't believe Jack's rap sheet to be particularly true.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 9:20 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
This quickly devolved from Wheeee! to IDGAF. I just don't find Raffi as compelling as the show wants me to, and 'historical' figures as the big bad are my least favorite Star Trek trope. (Khan being the obvious exception)
I also wish the writing were such that I wasn't able to read every plot twist light years in advance. There's wish fulfillment, and then there's obvious ploy, and we're already on the lazy writing side of that line.
That said, of COURSE I will keep watching to guiltily enjoy Shaw roasting Picard and Riker, but it's not the flavor of nostalgia I had been hoping for! (Also fuck that guy for deadnaming Seven)
posted by Space Kitty at 11:12 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also wish the writing were such that I wasn't able to read every plot twist light years in advance. There's wish fulfillment, and then there's obvious ploy, and we're already on the lazy writing side of that line.
That said, of COURSE I will keep watching to guiltily enjoy Shaw roasting Picard and Riker, but it's not the flavor of nostalgia I had been hoping for! (Also fuck that guy for deadnaming Seven)
posted by Space Kitty at 11:12 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Shields up? Did he really wait to get a starship thrown at him to do that?
posted by biffa at 3:29 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 3:29 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
"History remembers you with one less pip"
First of all, one fewer pip. Or, possibly, "one pip fewer". Second, whatever happened to the rank of Commodore?
There's a screenshot of the shuttle exploding that shows it was named "Saavik" after the canonical first captain of a Starfleet ship named "Titan".
posted by hanov3r at 4:06 PM on February 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
First of all, one fewer pip. Or, possibly, "one pip fewer". Second, whatever happened to the rank of Commodore?
There's a screenshot of the shuttle exploding that shows it was named "Saavik" after the canonical first captain of a Starfleet ship named "Titan".
posted by hanov3r at 4:06 PM on February 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Second, whatever happened to the rank of Commodore?
Geordi is apparently a commodore, but perhaps the rank is insufficiently sexy for Jack to remember it? (Or, um, the writers?)
posted by thomas j wise at 4:15 PM on February 24, 2023
Geordi is apparently a commodore, but perhaps the rank is insufficiently sexy for Jack to remember it? (Or, um, the writers?)
posted by thomas j wise at 4:15 PM on February 24, 2023
"History remembers you with one less pip"
Admirlss in JLP's time wear fewer pips than captains right till they are really senior admirals.
posted by biffa at 4:58 PM on February 24, 2023
Admirlss in JLP's time wear fewer pips than captains right till they are really senior admirals.
posted by biffa at 4:58 PM on February 24, 2023
On the one hand: every "plot twist" everyone saw coming miles off last episode proved to be exactly what everyone expected.
On the other hand: at least they got them all out of the way right away without dragging it out. Maybe we can move on from there to plot twists that aren't so telegraphed.
On the third hand: man, the Raffi scenes did not improve. The exposition dump (dear writers: there's recaps at the beginning of the episode for people who need one, you don't need to write it into the episode, too), the "her family being shitty to her about her problems with conspiracy theories and drug use" which is basically note-for-note the same as a scene she had in S1, and then the incredibly stale cliche "the undercover addict has to use drugs to prove they're not a cop". I'll allow as how Worf (still) knows how to make an entrance, but man they are giving Michael Dorn a ton of work to do if he's gonna have to elevate that whole mess into something that doesn't make me cringe.
The ensemble end of the show once again did a better job, overall, though there's definitely some confusion and/or incoherence about the Crushers' timeline (sorry writers: you wrote Q out last season, can't bring him back now to fix your sorry timeline with time travel shenanigans). But I had almost as much fun watching Amanda Plummer chew scenery as she seemed to be having chewing it, so that'll keep me along for the ride for now.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
On the other hand: at least they got them all out of the way right away without dragging it out. Maybe we can move on from there to plot twists that aren't so telegraphed.
On the third hand: man, the Raffi scenes did not improve. The exposition dump (dear writers: there's recaps at the beginning of the episode for people who need one, you don't need to write it into the episode, too), the "her family being shitty to her about her problems with conspiracy theories and drug use" which is basically note-for-note the same as a scene she had in S1, and then the incredibly stale cliche "the undercover addict has to use drugs to prove they're not a cop". I'll allow as how Worf (still) knows how to make an entrance, but man they are giving Michael Dorn a ton of work to do if he's gonna have to elevate that whole mess into something that doesn't make me cringe.
The ensemble end of the show once again did a better job, overall, though there's definitely some confusion and/or incoherence about the Crushers' timeline (sorry writers: you wrote Q out last season, can't bring him back now to fix your sorry timeline with time travel shenanigans). But I had almost as much fun watching Amanda Plummer chew scenery as she seemed to be having chewing it, so that'll keep me along for the ride for now.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Commodore
Fanfare’s Aubrey/Maturin readers will remember that, historically, commodore is a posting rather than a rank. An officer with the rank of captain assigned to lead a squadron is a commodore.
Sometimes in the U.S Navy and Coast Guard, commodore has been a rank. Since 1985, it has not. The next rank above captain in the U.S. Navy is the dreaded rear admiral. The U.K.’s navy does have a rank of commodore, since the mid 1990s.
In Star Fleet, the situation seems to be like the U.S. Navy, where there may have been a rank of commodore in the past, but currently it is a posting or an assignment rather than a rank.
posted by chrchr at 8:47 PM on February 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
Fanfare’s Aubrey/Maturin readers will remember that, historically, commodore is a posting rather than a rank. An officer with the rank of captain assigned to lead a squadron is a commodore.
Sometimes in the U.S Navy and Coast Guard, commodore has been a rank. Since 1985, it has not. The next rank above captain in the U.S. Navy is the dreaded rear admiral. The U.K.’s navy does have a rank of commodore, since the mid 1990s.
In Star Fleet, the situation seems to be like the U.S. Navy, where there may have been a rank of commodore in the past, but currently it is a posting or an assignment rather than a rank.
posted by chrchr at 8:47 PM on February 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
A bit weird that Picard was able to just go "I'm the Admiral now" after Shaw had, literally in the previous episode, pointed out that Picard is too retired to be able to do that. Like, that was the whole plot of the episode!
posted by BungaDunga at 8:56 PM on February 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 8:56 PM on February 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
W/rt the "two weeks ago" flashback, clearly Jack is lying about a ton of shit. And the scenes in last week's episode definitely implied they had been running for a while. Beverly knew what to do.
As for me, I would like to know why a pragmatic idealist like Beverly went so completely off-piste, if any of what Jack said was true. Hard to believe she wouldn't work within the system.
Does Wesley know he has a brother?
Nthing the love for silver-fox Worf. That's a great look. That said, it's kind of hard to believe Worf is in SF intelligence? I mean, was that a thing he got into during the Dominion War?
posted by suelac at 9:58 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
As for me, I would like to know why a pragmatic idealist like Beverly went so completely off-piste, if any of what Jack said was true. Hard to believe she wouldn't work within the system.
Does Wesley know he has a brother?
Nthing the love for silver-fox Worf. That's a great look. That said, it's kind of hard to believe Worf is in SF intelligence? I mean, was that a thing he got into during the Dominion War?
posted by suelac at 9:58 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
"On the third hand" ... On the gripping hand.
posted by porpoise at 11:20 PM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 11:20 PM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
A bit weird that Picard was able to just go "I'm the Admiral now" after Shaw had, literally in the previous episode, pointed out that Picard is too retired to be able to do that.
That annoyed me so much. Bizarrely inconsistent. Shaw should have just said “You’re still retired, Picard, and this is still my ship” and beamed Jack straight to Vadic. Honestly, I would’ve loved to have seen that.
“afternoon in the Sol system” How did a line this stupid get past the rough draft? Just horrid.
I want to like this season, but it’s not starting well. Feels like it was written by four high school students picked at random from a lottery.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:42 AM on February 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
That annoyed me so much. Bizarrely inconsistent. Shaw should have just said “You’re still retired, Picard, and this is still my ship” and beamed Jack straight to Vadic. Honestly, I would’ve loved to have seen that.
“afternoon in the Sol system” How did a line this stupid get past the rough draft? Just horrid.
I want to like this season, but it’s not starting well. Feels like it was written by four high school students picked at random from a lottery.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:42 AM on February 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
That said, it's kind of hard to believe Worf is in SF intelligence? I mean, was that a thing he got into during the Dominion War?
Not in any concrete way IIRC (having seen all of DS9 about four times). But he was an ambassador, which seems like an ideal first step toward/cover for intelligence work.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:49 AM on February 25, 2023
Not in any concrete way IIRC (having seen all of DS9 about four times). But he was an ambassador, which seems like an ideal first step toward/cover for intelligence work.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:49 AM on February 25, 2023
I was distracted by Sneed, he was great! but I thought he was played by "who's that guy? older guy - had a show about a show - was a corrupt politician in the MCU, 'hail Hydra!' What the hell was his name! ARGH GARRY SHANDLING! ...no it wasn't Garry Shandling, he died in 2016!"
His mouth just really looked like Garry Shandling's.
Amanda Plummer was really going full Khan in her performance. I loved it. And the way she said "HOLE" made me wonder: could she be a friend of deSoto?
posted by tomboko at 9:32 AM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
His mouth just really looked like Garry Shandling's.
Amanda Plummer was really going full Khan in her performance. I loved it. And the way she said "HOLE" made me wonder: could she be a friend of deSoto?
posted by tomboko at 9:32 AM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
I predict Laforge Jnr is gonna die. :(
Unfortunately I feel it in my bones.
And who thinks that Troi is going to get fridged? Why would that be necessary?
posted by Faintdreams at 11:12 AM on February 26, 2023
Unfortunately I feel it in my bones.
And who thinks that Troi is going to get fridged? Why would that be necessary?
posted by Faintdreams at 11:12 AM on February 26, 2023
A bit weird that Picard was able to just go "I'm the Admiral now" after Shaw had, literally in the previous episode, pointed out that Picard is too retired to be able to do that. Like, that was the whole plot of the episode!
I put that down to Picard playing the Admiral card in public, and relying on the crew to leap into loyal action (especially as their captain is a jerk who deadnames their awesome XO).
With a side order of haw probably not wanting to get into "nah fuck the rank structure" (regardless of the legitmacy of his stance) in the middle of combat.
posted by coriolisdave at 3:32 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I put that down to Picard playing the Admiral card in public, and relying on the crew to leap into loyal action (especially as their captain is a jerk who deadnames their awesome XO).
With a side order of haw probably not wanting to get into "nah fuck the rank structure" (regardless of the legitmacy of his stance) in the middle of combat.
posted by coriolisdave at 3:32 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
This was awful.
I'll give it one more episode and if it doesn't improve a whole heck of a lot, I'm giving up.
posted by kyrademon at 4:43 PM on February 27, 2023
I'll give it one more episode and if it doesn't improve a whole heck of a lot, I'm giving up.
posted by kyrademon at 4:43 PM on February 27, 2023
suelac: Does Wesley know he has a brother?
Given that Jack is cited as an intergalactic criminal, I'd expect he'd fit right in with his Traveller sibling.
posted by lumensimus at 8:04 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Given that Jack is cited as an intergalactic criminal, I'd expect he'd fit right in with his Traveller sibling.
posted by lumensimus at 8:04 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
This might have been awful, but at least it’s a fun sort of awful where I’m looking forward to the next episode
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:16 AM on February 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:16 AM on February 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
I still think I'm watching a different show. This has been delightful.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:43 AM on February 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 6:43 AM on February 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
I've more or less decided to just enjoy this show for the nostalgia factor and not think too hard about it. I honestly don't really care if the writing is bad or the plot is hackneyed or anything like that, I'm just happy to be seeing these characters again.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:44 AM on February 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:44 AM on February 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've more or less decided to just enjoy this show for the nostalgia factor
Which may be the best decision, because this show knows you like Star Trek so they've put some Star Trek into this Star Trek show.
posted by nubs at 9:51 AM on February 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
Which may be the best decision, because this show knows you like Star Trek so they've put some Star Trek into this Star Trek show.
posted by nubs at 9:51 AM on February 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
Sooo many callbacks to 12 Monkeys: Cole as one of Jack’s aliases, Aaron Stanford, the name of the drug was splinter, and of course Stashwick continues to be snide and antagonistic but more watchable than anyone else. I generally don’t mind fan service, but I mean it wasn’t a hugely popular show so it feels a bit more of a wank than it should.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 5:35 PM on February 28, 2023
posted by kitten kaboodle at 5:35 PM on February 28, 2023
Which may be the best decision, because this show knows you like Star Trek so they've put some Star Trek into this Star Trek show.
You've touched on the point, but not quite.
They've used actors and words from Star Trek, but it doesn't actually feel like Star Trek. It feels like a show assembled by some people who want to make Extruded Star Trek Product.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:51 AM on March 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
You've touched on the point, but not quite.
They've used actors and words from Star Trek, but it doesn't actually feel like Star Trek. It feels like a show assembled by some people who want to make Extruded Star Trek Product.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:51 AM on March 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'll be honest and say I'm not sure what feels like Star Trek anymore - I dropped out on Voyager early, found Enterprise kind of appalling when I joined the rewatch here on Fanfare for a time, never got into Discovery - about the only stuff I've liked since TNG has been Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds. Picard S1 was alright (though I had much higher hopes for it when it started), S2 was just disappointing (again, I had high hopes when John De Lanice showed up), and so far S3 is a lot of fan service when it isn't poorly written stuff that I'm waiting to connect up to the main storyline. It feels like they decided to go all in on Trek nostalgia in place of actual character work and plot, which I guess is your point. The Abrams Trek stuff has a similar problem.
I guess for me Star Trek has become just another lumbering franchise that should be left to lie fallow for a time before the corpse gets exhumed again, and I'll just dip into the pieces I like and leave the rest. But I wanted to like Picard, and I'll guess keep watching because it is fun to see Stewart and Frakes and McFadden and Dorn and all the rest again, even while I roll my eyes at it. I'm hoping before it ends, the show will remember that the best Trek is the Trek where the characters solve problems without blowing everything up.
posted by nubs at 7:34 AM on March 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
I guess for me Star Trek has become just another lumbering franchise that should be left to lie fallow for a time before the corpse gets exhumed again, and I'll just dip into the pieces I like and leave the rest. But I wanted to like Picard, and I'll guess keep watching because it is fun to see Stewart and Frakes and McFadden and Dorn and all the rest again, even while I roll my eyes at it. I'm hoping before it ends, the show will remember that the best Trek is the Trek where the characters solve problems without blowing everything up.
posted by nubs at 7:34 AM on March 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
(And maybe this episode title is just a good way to describe how I'm feeling emotionally about Trek and big SF franchises generally)
posted by nubs at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by nubs at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think I actually care what "feels like Star Trek".
I want good shows.
posted by kyrademon at 10:28 AM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I want good shows.
posted by kyrademon at 10:28 AM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I mostly like season one of PICARD because it had its own style and tone but didn't feel too far away from Trek. It wasn't planet of the week, but Picard felt like Picard. The stuff with the Romulans felt like part of the Trek universe. Bringing in Seven to be an ally to Picard but also not always friendly with him was great. The Riker and Deanna reunion episode felt like a brilliant coda to the original show and to their relationship with each other and with Picard. I give Michael Chabon all the credit for this.
DISCO was already the problem child, didn't have an interesting voice and felt like it was trying to be cool and not be Trek at all. it had icons and references and swerved deep into the canon and then had to fly into the distant future before it found its own voice. So already PICARD was on the back foot, because none of it felt like TREK and even the great character work by Chabon was being drowned in a kind of bleak version of Roddenberry's future.
I love STRANGE NEW WORLDS because it has found a way to do Classic Feeling Trek while also allowing for character change and growth. But I don't think it's as interesting as Chabon's take on the character of Picard.
This show now wants to be a Star Trek movie, which have always been their own thing with their own style. Trek movies saved the franchise in the 70s and again in 2009, but the Next Gen movies didn't really crossover to a mainstream audience and I'd rather watch the show than the movies now anyway.
So I don't *need* the show to be Classic Next Gen but I would like the characters to feel like the characters. I would like the world to feel like the world. I think you can do Trek without necessarily trekking but it's gotta be better than whatever this grimdark version of Roddenberry's utopia is.
posted by crossoverman at 5:26 PM on March 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
DISCO was already the problem child, didn't have an interesting voice and felt like it was trying to be cool and not be Trek at all. it had icons and references and swerved deep into the canon and then had to fly into the distant future before it found its own voice. So already PICARD was on the back foot, because none of it felt like TREK and even the great character work by Chabon was being drowned in a kind of bleak version of Roddenberry's future.
I love STRANGE NEW WORLDS because it has found a way to do Classic Feeling Trek while also allowing for character change and growth. But I don't think it's as interesting as Chabon's take on the character of Picard.
This show now wants to be a Star Trek movie, which have always been their own thing with their own style. Trek movies saved the franchise in the 70s and again in 2009, but the Next Gen movies didn't really crossover to a mainstream audience and I'd rather watch the show than the movies now anyway.
So I don't *need* the show to be Classic Next Gen but I would like the characters to feel like the characters. I would like the world to feel like the world. I think you can do Trek without necessarily trekking but it's gotta be better than whatever this grimdark version of Roddenberry's utopia is.
posted by crossoverman at 5:26 PM on March 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
That was dumb but it was also fun. Good entertainment. Well most of it, the Raffi plot this time around was just terrible. Really, her ex-husband? And a brief mention of the son she blew off last season, only to blow him off again? Ugh. Gosh I hope the eyeball speedball doesn't end up having her relapse. She should go back to smoking space-weed.
Shaw is indeed good. I love the early scene where Seven goads him into helping by appealing to his vanity. If they end up giving him a full redemption story I'm gonna be mad; I'd rather he stays craven and arrogant and also kinda right.
Amanda Plummer as Vadic is delicious. I think folks above are right that she's actually Moriarty and I'm going to be mad about that. But if Plummer keeps getting to do what she did there, I'm all in. Maybe they'll have flashbacks where the character is played by Aubrey Plaza.
The production design was quite interesting IMHO. Several teams spent a lot of time designing tech and systems to look new but still Star Treky.
Still wondering what happened Gates McFadden's face. I speculated it was Klingon Augment Virus last episode, but maybe it's Telerian Fever that did that to her?
posted by Nelson at 7:45 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Shaw is indeed good. I love the early scene where Seven goads him into helping by appealing to his vanity. If they end up giving him a full redemption story I'm gonna be mad; I'd rather he stays craven and arrogant and also kinda right.
Amanda Plummer as Vadic is delicious. I think folks above are right that she's actually Moriarty and I'm going to be mad about that. But if Plummer keeps getting to do what she did there, I'm all in. Maybe they'll have flashbacks where the character is played by Aubrey Plaza.
The production design was quite interesting IMHO. Several teams spent a lot of time designing tech and systems to look new but still Star Treky.
Still wondering what happened Gates McFadden's face. I speculated it was Klingon Augment Virus last episode, but maybe it's Telerian Fever that did that to her?
posted by Nelson at 7:45 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like Picard, and the whole series, so far. I am not looking to pick it apart, and it holds together for me. The captain of The Titan, seemed to be a career guy, holding to the letter, because it is easier to drink his way through a career, if things don't get too crazy. But crazy has come for him, and he has a great first officer to push him out of his defensive, complacency. He will learn a lot from Picard and Riker, probably how to sacrifice, and how to die. I think the LaForge daughter will do some splendid rescue driving, I am all for this series. Nostalgia or whatever, they are not dead yet, just older.
posted by Oyéah at 7:51 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 7:51 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't have a good feel for how reliable giantfreakinrobot is, but word is that a Worf-Raffi spinoff is in the works.
posted by porpoise at 8:27 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by porpoise at 8:27 PM on March 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Still wondering what happened Gates McFadden's face.
I’m not quite sure where you’re going with this. Are you upset that an actress in her mid-seventies looks different from when she first played the role in her late thirties?
Classy.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:14 AM on March 3, 2023
I’m not quite sure where you’re going with this. Are you upset that an actress in her mid-seventies looks different from when she first played the role in her late thirties?
Classy.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:14 AM on March 3, 2023
It's not her age! It looks to me like she's had a whole lot of facial sculpting. It has been Luke-in-the-Bacta-Tank levels of distracting to me. But this is the last I'll say; my comments are both tacky and tedious.
posted by Nelson at 6:29 AM on March 3, 2023
posted by Nelson at 6:29 AM on March 3, 2023
I thought that Picard being Jack's father would be too obvious for them to go with, plus he looks like he's older than 20 years. But what do I know. I also didn't think that Worf was Raffi's handler and thought it would be some baddie manipulating her. Once Vadic started accessing Starfleet records I thought she might be the the handler as well. So that misdirection worked on me. Before the Worf reveal I thought it was Elnor who was impaling and beheading Sneed and his goons. Is Elnor still alive?
Also, given Riker's age and seemingly semi-retired status it does seem a bit disappointing to me that he never made it to admiral himself. I guess he ended up starting his family and moving to that no-tech world before he could get that promotion.
I've enjoyed this much more than seasons 1 and 2 and am wondering why they even bothered with those. Season 1 we can justify for setting up a new status quo and explaining Raffi and Seven but what was the point of Season 2?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:41 PM on April 19, 2023
Also, given Riker's age and seemingly semi-retired status it does seem a bit disappointing to me that he never made it to admiral himself. I guess he ended up starting his family and moving to that no-tech world before he could get that promotion.
I've enjoyed this much more than seasons 1 and 2 and am wondering why they even bothered with those. Season 1 we can justify for setting up a new status quo and explaining Raffi and Seven but what was the point of Season 2?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:41 PM on April 19, 2023
I def thought it was Space Legolas.
very-definitely-mid-30s dude playing a putative 20-yo. And a 20 y.o. with QUITE the rap sheet.
He looks thirty! This does not work!
Bev’s eye makeup still on point after weeks in a med tank.
posted by bq at 12:38 PM on August 9, 2023
very-definitely-mid-30s dude playing a putative 20-yo. And a 20 y.o. with QUITE the rap sheet.
He looks thirty! This does not work!
Bev’s eye makeup still on point after weeks in a med tank.
posted by bq at 12:38 PM on August 9, 2023
Well, so much for that theory.
I’m somehow reminded of The Village, where we spent the whole movie going, “no, THAT’S not going to be the big twist at the end. He’s got something better than that. He has to, right?”
And then he didn’t, and it was that after all.
posted by Naberius at 10:43 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m somehow reminded of The Village, where we spent the whole movie going, “no, THAT’S not going to be the big twist at the end. He’s got something better than that. He has to, right?”
And then he didn’t, and it was that after all.
posted by Naberius at 10:43 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
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What, you didn’t enjoy Raffi’s angry exposition dump monologue at a computer screen?
Shaw is somehow the most interesting character on the show to me.
posted by nubs at 8:18 AM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]