Star Trek: Strange New Worlds: Lost in Translation

July 20, 2023 9:02 AM - Season 2, Episode 6

Uhura is receiving strange signals, but she's distracted by a zombie of the stratosphere.

Memory Alpha burns the candle at one end:

- Jim Kirk had previously been cited as being the youngest captain in Starfleet up to that point (citation needed; it's just a thing that I remember reading hither and yon); this makes it canon that he was also the youngest executive officer at this time (beating the record set by his dad).

- The only other Starfleet officer who was mentioned as a fleet captain in canon was Garth of Izar.

- As far as I can tell, deuterium poisoning (via heavy water) is theoretically possible but extremely unlikely.

- This is Hemmer's first appearance (via video flashback and hallucination) since his swan [song|dive] last season.

"Sam."
"Jimmy. Welcome to the Enterprise."
"Hell of a ship. And they let you work here?"
"What can I say? Captain Pike asked for the more handsome Kirk brother. You want a tour?"
"As long as it ends at the bar."

- The brothers Kirk

Poster's Log:

Let's just get this out of the way: TOS preunion! It's Jim Kirk's first meeting with both Spock and Uhura, as well as AFAIK the first time that James T. set foot on the NCC-1701 (in this timeline; we saw all three happen in the alternate timeline of S1's finale). That having been said, it's a big character development episode; mostly of Uhura, of course, but also for a bunch of others--we get a lot of new information about Jim and his relationship with his brother and dad. (Speaking of whom, I'm not sure if Chris Hemsworth could be persuaded to put in a cameo--there was some drama and possible bad feelings around negotiations for a Kelvin timeline Star Trek 4 movie, which has since been scrubbed from Paramount's release schedule--but we can dream, since George Sr. seems to still be alive at this point.) In addition to meeting his future crewmembers and ship, there's also a hint that something might develop with the descendant of his future archenemy, ironically. Plus, of course, a bit with Spock/Chapel and some friction between Una and Pelia. But the episode is Uhura's, really, and given the generally sparse character development of most of the original TOS crew in the series and even the movies, it is severely overdue. Also good to see Hemmer again, of course.

My only quibble, really, is that Pike was a bit quick to believe someone who'd just been in sickbay for hallucinations, especially WRT the destruction of a space gas station that was probably not only a major investment of resources but also strategically important.

Poster's Log, supplemental: The reference in the above-the-fold bit may seem odd to some, since they weren't actually in the stratosphere, but I just couldn't resist.

posted by Halloween Jack (68 comments total)

I really enjoyed the episode, except for the way the refinement station's off switch was busted for some reason that meant they had to do explodey-explodey.

Someone remarked that in a way the episode Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow was the entirety of PIC S2 in an episode and better. If so, is this episode DIS S4 re-told?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 9:37 AM on July 20, 2023 [6 favorites]

I felt like this episode wobbled a bit under the weight of some exposition-heavy scenes. Pelia and Una on the shuttle had some grace to it, but was also a little explainy. Same for the Sam/Jim interactions. And I guess we’re setting up Jim/La’An to revisit later in the season? Because that one scene in the hallway was not enough.
posted by sockshaveholes at 9:59 AM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

Speaking of whom, I'm not sure if Chris Hemsworth could be persuaded to put in a cameo--there was some drama and possible bad feelings around negotiations for a Kelvin timeline Star Trek 4 movie, which has since been scrubbed from Paramount's release schedule--but we can dream, since George Sr. seems to still be alive at this point.

I don't really know what this would add to the show; they're already going too Kirk-happy for my tastes. And in no universe is Chris Hemsworth believable as the father of a 26-year-old.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:01 AM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

Please Hemmer don't hurt em.
posted by biffa at 11:47 AM on July 20, 2023 [14 favorites]

Soooooooo, the Enterprise lounge has a bar festooned with glass bottles and not a single rail to hold them in place. Do torpedo strikes/tractor beams/nebula decelerations not affect the lounge?
posted by Molesome at 12:24 PM on July 20, 2023 [6 favorites]

On every ship in Starfleet, the very best inertial dampers are reserved for the bar and/or jazz lounge. The second-best go to the bridge, which is why bridge officers get flung around but glass bottles never break.
posted by Mogur at 12:32 PM on July 20, 2023 [23 favorites]

inertial damping glassware?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 1:04 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

a zombie of the stratosphere

Holy shit deep cut.
posted by The Tensor at 1:20 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't know how Spapple can expect to keep thier relationship secret for long.
posted by Faintdreams at 1:35 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]

Perhaps everything looks like glass but it's really just high quality replicator plastic ?
posted by Faintdreams at 1:36 PM on July 20, 2023

Transparent aluminum.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:57 PM on July 20, 2023 [24 favorites]

I just watched “The Menagerie” a few days ago. Kirk mentions that he met Pike when Pike became a fleet captain.

Here the first time they meet he literally walks in the door and offers his congratulations to Pike on the promotion to fleet captain.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:14 PM on July 20, 2023 [27 favorites]

As Fleet Captain, with command over that station, then will Pike he looking at a court martial for loss of a vessel under his command? And blowing it up himself, obviously.

Also, good news that there was no danger to the aliens in the big explosion.
posted by biffa at 2:38 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

In some respects, this felt like a casserole of TNG plots—a little "Force of Nature," a little "Darmok," a little "Eye of the Beholder." But considered as a whole, and (perhaps fittingly) de-emphasizing the plot, it's strong character stuff for Uhura, building consistently off of previous stuff, and another strong performance by Gooding.

I felt like this episode wobbled a bit under the weight of some exposition-heavy scenes.

Yeah, the Jim/Sam interactions in their first bar scene felt kinda contrived. Call it a mild case of prequelitis.

I also wonder if we really needed the zoom-in on Ramon dying in space. When the character in question wasn't a big nasty villain, that doesn't seem very Trek to me. (Or at least, not very non-JJ-Trek.)

I was struck by, but liked, the slow exit from the bar at the end. An odd choice, but admirably idiosyncratic in the way that so much studio content these days tries so hard not to be. BTW, anybody recognize the song?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:43 PM on July 20, 2023 [7 favorites]

Despite the facile Jim Carrey comparisons people keep making for Paul Wesley, I don’t see it, beyond them both being trim dark-haired men. However, the nagging thing that I’ve been trying to place for a while now came to me today, watching the discussion in Not-Ten-Forward: his vocal inflections are bang-on to Rob Lowe in The West Wing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:59 PM on July 20, 2023 [8 favorites]

My sibling sees Niles Crane (from Frasier). I don't think that comparison is physical but relates to how he reacts and sounds.
posted by sardonyx at 3:48 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

When Uhura told Kirk to get lost in the bar, I said to my wife “someday she’s gonna steal a starship for that man” and she just about snorted her drink out her nose.
posted by Servo5678 at 3:49 PM on July 20, 2023 [16 favorites]

I enjoyed this a good bit but I definitely feel like I wish I didn’t watch the “previously on” bit at the beginning where Hemmer says “I’m going to un-die in this episode” directly into the camera
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:03 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]

Pike's hair was very stripey this episode: it was good, dramatic hair without being high.

I liked that there was conflict between Una and Pelia because even on a flagship with a top-notch crew not everybody is going to be buddy-buddy all the time. I would have been happier if they had left it at opposing styles of work or something else (that C) rather than just make it about missing and replacing a dead crewmate.

While I really enjoy the show, the one thing that always throws me is how much bigger and glitzier and comfortable the new Enterprise is compared with the TOS version. Not only does it have a bar with magically stable bottles but it also has a swanky chandelier with a sparkly door. This is much more a TNG-era Enterprise D ship that it should be.

Speaking of the ship, if it's using deuterium as an energy source (even if that is being converted) and the gas station is collecting deuterium for that same reason (and then refining it), wouldn't that suggest that when they torpedoed the station, the deuterium likely blew up? If that's the case, wouldn't that have killed the aliens, considering they were somehow "attached" (I think is how Kirk phrased it) to the deuterium? Yes, I know it's always foolish to start questioning sci-fi science.
posted by sardonyx at 5:09 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

BTW, anybody recognize the song?

Sounded like "It Had To Be You".
posted by tomboko at 6:05 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

I really loved this episode. I'm so glad Celia Rose Gooding got some juicy stuff to get her teeth into here. It beautifully ties together some of her past trauma, helps her work with it, gives her a puzzle to solve and with the help of the Kirk brothers, they put the pieces together and solve it. There's been a tendency this season to sort of have things happen to characters and not allow them to solve mysteries. (A much bigger more prominent issue on PICARD, but it's seeped over here a little bit.)

All the character beats were great - for Uhura, the Kirks, Una, La'an. This episode really played off a lot of things the rest of the season has been laying out there. And the best thing this show does is not have character keep things from other characters - which used to be the driving force of a lot of old Trek, people keeping mysterious illnesses secret until it became a bigger problem.

I don't think this plot was very original but I think it was executed with style and this season is really leaning in to being more like TOS in a lot of ways, which is lovely and comforting.
posted by crossoverman at 8:10 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

Nice episode—feels so very Star Trek, which is a lovely change for modern Trek. I was a bit surprised by the security guard trying to blast Ramon with his phaser. Do they not have a "stun" setting on those things yet? Also, I was curious about what purpose deuterium served as "fuel." According to Wikipedia ("Warp drive"), a starship's matter-antimatter reactor is fueled by deuterium and antideuterium. Which raises the question: where do they get the antideuterium? Positrons (anti-electrons) are easy to come by in nature. But antideuterium? I mean, you basically could use any particle, as long as you could source the antiparticle. These are the kinds of questions that keep me up at night.
posted by jabah at 9:18 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

jabah, there's a moderately lengthy explanation in the TNG Technical Manual, which says that it's created by "combined solar-fusion charge reversal devices, which process proton and neutron beams into antideuterons, and are joined by a positron beam accelerator to produce antihydrogen (specifically antideuterium)." There was also an onboard antimatter generator on the Enterprise-D, which gets seriously into the Treknobabble weeds. You can still score a copy of the book on Amazon or elsewhere; the illustrations are black-and-white line drawings, but it covers TNG-era tech quite well; there's also a DS9 tech manual that has nice color illustrations and goes into non-Federation tech, but isn't quite as content-rich as the TNG book.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:32 PM on July 20, 2023 [7 favorites]

So many years watching Star Trek, and this is the first time I realized that we so often see them drinking in uniform, which I believe is really not appropriate for the military.

I liked that, although I felt kind of bad for Sam: Jim is dissing him, and not even Uhura caught it?
posted by suelac at 9:51 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

I really loved this episode. I'm so glad Celia Rose Gooding got some juicy stuff to get her teeth into here.

She got more development as Uhura in 43 minutes than Nichelle Nichols did in 25 years in the role*. Let’s keep in mind it was 2009 before Uhura even got a first name.

*No fan dance either.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:00 PM on July 20, 2023 [9 favorites]

Despite the facile Jim Carrey comparisons people keep making for Paul Wesley, I don’t see it

There was a fleeting mug he pulled in one shot where my lizard brain said, it's Jim Carrey! in an absolutely automatic way, so I definitely see it. I like him, but I do find his Kirk a little too ... simultaneously goofy and earnest? Like you can see the buds of what will become Kirk's style, but it's coming across maybe a little too broad for me? In any case, not enough to pull me out of his performance.

Another fun episode, and another reason I want old-timey-length seasons. I want to spend more time with this cast! They're doing fun stuff! Uhura is watching her YouTube Dad fix the dishwasher!

And next week is the Lower Decks crossover!
posted by uncleozzy at 4:43 AM on July 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I’ve had night terrors for a week straight and was like, oh great, they’re doing the night terrors episode…

For me, the slow pull out from the bar was really nice as a way to end this kind of episode! Social time and some relaxing jazz to wash away the nightmares…
posted by sixswitch at 5:18 AM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

This episode really showcased Uhura and Celia Rose Gooding so well. Every week I marvel at the casting of this show. And I will include Paul Wesley in that, because he is basically a series regular at this point, with as much screen time as anybody else. And I think he's really good on the show, even if I still think he's absolutely nothing like James T. Kirk. If he was "Lieutenant Joseph T. Blow", he would be a great new character. The quick friendship and empathy between Uhura and Kirk really worked, and so did the sibling rivalry scenes with Sam. Not so much the scene with La'An. I feel like that was forced because the producers are so intent on making that romantic relationship A Thing.

The scenes with Pelia and Una were interesting, but I felt like the little speech Pelia made about resenting her because of Hemmer probably would have been better directed at Uhura. I did like that she was a bit more serious this week and not just used for comic effect.

The little smile from Hallucinated Hemmer near the end, and the final shot with Kirk, Spock and Uhura both made me tear up. I am such a sentimental old fool.
posted by briank at 6:48 AM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

“You’ve been in Starfleet since before I was born, and I outrank you. Why do you think that is?” is such a perfectly delivered line. Though I think it’s basically canon that Starfleet does not have an “up or out” culture, and is perfectly happy to have people spend their careers at fairly junior ranks if they’re competent but lack ambition. That’s how Picard ended up on the Enterprise as a fiftysomething science lieutenant in the universe where he “never took chances,” after all.

God, I’m such a nerd.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 7:17 AM on July 21, 2023 [14 favorites]

Surprised there aren't more comments on WesleyKirk... his first full outing as "our" Kirk and well, idk. I still remain unconvinced. However, they've done a bang-up job with all the other casting, so I suppose I will reserve judgement.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:35 AM on July 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

“You’ve been in Starfleet since before I was born, and I outrank you. Why do you think that is?” Although I enjoyed the delivery of this line, I thought it made Una seem churlish and little grudge-y.

There are myriad reasons why someone wouldn't try to ascend the ranks of Starfleet.

Perhaps Pelia liked teaching, or entered Starfleet under her human persona and didn't want to draw attention to herself? Perhaps she doesn't want to deal with the higher levels of bureaucracy, perhaps she was content (before she became bored) not to be travelling all the time, perhaps there were loved ones she wanted to spend more time with than doing her job - maybe she raised a family, considering her long life maybe she's raised several families ! ?

I get that Star Trek and the Federation are always about hyper competency but I did not like Una in that moment. That line made her seem small.

Space Hippie was funny though.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:39 AM on July 21, 2023 [9 favorites]

I'm just ignoring WesleyKirk. I've said it before, in my personal headcanon, he's a third Kirk brother because he's so not the James T. I grew up knowing. I also found it hard to believe he and Sam would be squabbling like that in front of Uhura (or anybody).

It was only after I was discussing this episode with my sibling that the whole dilithium/deuterium came up, and I realized that the deuterium was a TNG-era instead than an TOS one. (No, I'm not nerdy enough to know that off the top of my head but yes, I am nerdy enough to look it up on Memory Alpha).

I probably shouldn't put this out there in the universe, but I may as well: last episode it was Spock getting upset about Sam's crumbs on the table. This episode, Pelia was called out for crumbs on her uniform. Crumbs have never been featured so prominently in Trek before (that I can recall), so just what are Sam and Pelia getting up to together?
posted by sardonyx at 7:46 AM on July 21, 2023 [8 favorites]

Having grown up with two brothers close in age, the Kirk brothers' responses to each other made perfect sense to me from both sides. Each has a hard time in different ways. They're both doing exactly what they want to be doing, and doing it really well - but one is following Dad's path and the other is doing something Dad doesn't really care about.

It makes perfect sense that Sam is jealous of the approval Jim gets from their father, and it makes perfect sense that Jim gets annoyed and frustrated when Sam takes that out on him.

I mean, what does Sam think Jim's play should be? Should Jim NOT follow his own ambitions, because it makes Sam feel overshadowed? On the other hand - Jim needling Sam about not having the same ambitions is not cool. It felt like a really well-done brotherly dynamic, honestly, with no good guys and no bad guys, just two guys who care about each other but don't completely "get" each other.

Re: Paul Wesley specifically - he's really growing on me as a young Jim Kirk in the last couple of episodes. He's not OUR Kirk, but to be fair, OUR Kirk has been a lot of different Kirks over the years. This is just a Kirk who hasn't been tempered by the leadership experience that TOS Kirk has. I can see the rough edges in him, though, that just need to be smoothed over a bit more to get there.

And to avoid a comment just about these guys when the episode was about Uhura... I loved her in this, she was amazing. The only complaint I've ever had is that sometimes her voice feels almost TOO professional - like everything she says is being run through an autotuner. It makes sense for her role as communications officer, but also felt a little distancing to me somehow. In this, though, I really felt her as a person, both her fear and her grief. It was just a whole other level I wasn't sure was there for this character, and now I'm fully on board.

Though it was just two seconds or so at the very start, I also liked what we saw of Spock and Chapel's relationship; it kind of makes me wonder if this is going to go down in flames not because Spock is Vulcan, but instead because Chapel can't really commit. We've seen her have that issue already, but before the implication seemed to be that it was because she didn't want to. Maybe here we'll see that she just can't manage it at all, for whatever reason. Maybe she's still hanging on to Korby with some part of her heart, or maybe she's just a runner when it comes to relationships (which I TOTALLY sympathize with). But I like the idea that it ends because Christine just can't make it work, rather than because of Spock's Vulcan whatever. I keep thinking about that scene in Amok Time where Spock gets so angry with her -- the idea that maybe HE is the one who got jilted before the start of the show puts an entirely different spin on that, and it's one that I really, really like.

I have no thoughts on Una and Carol Kane, mainly because I'm having a very hard time not seeing Carol Kane every time Carol Kane is on screen. She has yet to really transform into a Star Trek character for me, which makes it a bit harder to care about her character beats or those of the other characters she's interacting with. Don't get me wrong, I love her - I'm just not really sure I love her for this show.
posted by invincible summer at 7:48 AM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]

I came away from this one thinking that it had a bunch of story beats and moments that I really liked, and I could see what they were aiming for, but the whole episode wasn't quite up to the sum of the parts.

On the other hand, Celia Rose Gooding is amazing. And kudos to Carol Kane for Pellia's handling of the different ways people are reacting to her replacing Hemmer.
posted by hanov3r at 8:22 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

Maybe she's still hanging on to Korby with some part of her heart

Chapel hasn't met Korby yet.

I think this is how it's going to go: Chapel and Spock blow up somehow and she decides to reapply for the fellowship to get away from the Enterprise for a few months. We know she meets Korby there, so in the aftermath of her relationship with Spock she decides to throw it all in with Korby.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:04 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

Chapel hasn't met Korby yet.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure about the timing. In TOS she's already been involved with him, but there's plenty of blank space between SNW-present and that episode.
posted by invincible summer at 9:12 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think why this show works so well for me is this: it is not explicitly "the origin story for Kirk, Spock, and Uhura".

None of the (TOS or otherwise) crew exist in this show primarily as references to the characters they become. They get to be characters in and of themselves and actively serve the story and plot without it being "look at how formative this experience is in creating the character you care about in the future". That's why I think the nods and references feel earned and more organic than in so many other prequels I've watched.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2023 [16 favorites]

For me, the slow pull out from the bar was really nice as a way to end this kind of episode! Social time and some relaxing jazz to wash away the nightmares…

That shot felt like maybe it was intended to be the last shot of a season finale—look, the TOS crew is getting together, now fade to jazz...—but apparently there are four more episodes.
posted by The Tensor at 10:52 AM on July 21, 2023

Off-topic but interesting news concerning this year's "Star Trek" day and the 50th anniversary of TAS
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:48 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I liked the Una “why do you think that is?” line because Pelia answered by not answering, and Una had a great, silent reaction moment of realizing there were a number of valid answers to that question, many of which suggest Pelia does in fact deserve more trust and respect than Una has given her so far.
posted by sixswitch at 12:57 PM on July 21, 2023 [15 favorites]

You’ve been in Starfleet since before I was born, and I outrank you. Why do you think that is?

Seems like there is a parallel with Jim and Sam - Jim advancing much faster, and getting more respect, on the command track, than Sam does on the science track. I'm assuming this was a purposeful juxtaposition.

And of course both Pelia and Sam are integral to solving this week's problems; Pelia despite the orders she was given, Sam because Jim and Nyota go ask for his expertise.

Una had a great, silent reaction moment of realizing there were a number of valid answers to that question

That's not how I read it; her feelings, till Pelia proved her wrong, seemed similar to Jim's feelings about Sam's work, at least until Jim was smart enough to ask for Sam's help.
posted by mistersix at 2:33 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm just ignoring WesleyKirk. I've said it before, in my personal headcanon, he's a third Kirk brother because he's so not the James T. I grew up knowing.

I wish I could also ignore NotKirk, but the showrunners are making it difficult - - he's had more screen time than Pike this season. I sincerely hope they feature Anson Mount in a couple of the remaining episodes.
posted by fairmettle at 11:10 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Jim advancing much faster, and getting more respect, on the command track, than Sam does on the science track

Also, Jim is way more capable at his chosen specialisation? Maybe if Sam spent less time whining he would have remembered to duck.
posted by biffa at 5:04 AM on July 22, 2023

This one gave me shades of VOY: "Haunting of Deck 12". As soon as they started scooping up the nebula I knew there was gonna be trouble.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:10 AM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

And next week is the Lower Decks crossover!

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I am looking forward to it so much, you guys!

Lower Decks is my son’s gateway into Trek. He loves the show and we’ve watched it together.

This morning he texted me “ 😑😑😑 (casually does sarcastic Vulcan wave)🖖🖖”

Also, I enjoyed this episode. I agree with people upthread that Young Kirk feels sort of Not Kirk, but at the same time he’s making the role his own and I still like him.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:12 AM on July 22, 2023 [5 favorites]

Lower Decks is my son’s gateway into Trek.

If your son continues watching Trek, he has months or years ahead of him of recognition of what a joke or reference is all about.

I am always curious about viewers’ experience of media is when they begin with a piece that assumes the viewer will catch numerous references to previous instalments. I know someone who eventually watched the entire run of Buffy The Vampire Slayer but for years the only episode he had seen was the musical one, which comes up in the sixth season and relies a lot on knowing who the hell these people are.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:56 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Pelia answered by not answering

I thought that was a great character moment for them both, too, and really like the way they're developing Pelia's character. How would a really, really old being respond to the basic emotional stuff we're all doing all the time? What would they be like after they've lived long enough to have learned some real wisdom, then become bitter and resentful about people never learning anything and repeating the same mistakes, and then learned how to move past that and come to treasure each person for the incandescent mayflys that we are to them...? Regular mortal people must seem like perpetual adolescents.

Pelia's reaction to Una actually resonated with something it took me over two decades of work as a teacher--and heaps of life experience--to really understand and believe: you can't teach something to someone unless they're actually interested in learning it. So in that situation, Pelia is exactly at the rank she chooses to be, and that's obvious to someone who has wisdom enough to have moved beyond mere hierarchical striving or "career ambitions" or any other narrative nonsense that people commonly tell themselves about their work (or really, that basic valuing what other people think of you more than what you think about yourself), but Pelia knows it would be useless to say that to Una; Una needs to figure that out for herself, and Pelia reacts in a way to create a moment of opportunity for Una to learn, should she choose to pay attention. It's a wonderful, subtle scene that really underscores the difference that a few decades vs. a few centuries of life experience could hypothetically make.

Seems like there is a parallel with Jim and Sam

Definitely, it's an interesting parallel to the Kirk bros. exchanges: Sam is living his best life but neither his father nor his brother see or respect the real joy he's found in his work (and that his work matters). Sam has better wisdom about that than his brother, but is still struggling with his need for affirmation from those most important to him; Pelia could help him with that, I expect.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:02 AM on July 22, 2023 [8 favorites]

I've come around on Wesley's Kirk — not because I feel like he's more recognizable as the Kirk I've known (I'm an old TOS guy), but because I'm enjoying this version of Kirk. Shatner is always going to be "my" Kirk, but as I said in a previous thread, I think anyone attempting to duplicate that performance would fail badly. This is a new take, one I like better than Pine's. That's a bit surprising because Pine leaned into the swaggering side of Shatner's Kirk and that's a huge part of the Kirk we've known, but I think Pines's version proved that this was never really what made Kirk interesting — he was always most interesting when he showed the stuff going on under all that shirtless swaggering.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:55 AM on July 22, 2023 [7 favorites]

Let’s keep in mind it was 2009 before Uhura even got a first name.

It is embarrassing how long both Nyota Uhura and Hikaru Sulu's first names took to become official canon. Non-canonically, those names were used in the Star Trek novels I grew up reading in the 80's so they have always felt fully part of their characters to me.
posted by Pryde at 10:04 AM on July 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

Sam is living his best life but neither his father nor his brother see or respect the real joy he's found in his work (and that his work matters).

Yeah, I really found that aspect of this episode annoying. It felt like the text was validating Jim's perspective more than Sam's, while I felt that Jim was being obtuse about Sam's emotional responses. Jim was explicitly dissing Sam's work and career choices, and then acting surprised when Sam responded poorly, while expecting Sam to respect his career choices.

I was additionally surprised that Uhura didn't pick up on it: she's pretty emotionally savvy, and yet, she appeared to agree that Sam was being irrationally resentful, despite the fact that Sam's expertise had helped solve the problem.

As a member of a big family full of high achievers, I have a lot of sympathy for Sam! And I too would find Jim a bit annoying...
posted by suelac at 10:41 AM on July 22, 2023 [8 favorites]

Errr… someone at Paramount must have screwed up — S2E7, the crossover with Lowerdecks, is available for me.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:24 PM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

It was deliberate, apparently! I just saw a post from the paramount+ people saying that the crossover episode will be available as of 4pm PT
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:28 PM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

So many years watching Star Trek, and this is the first time I realized that we so often see them drinking in uniform, which I believe is really not appropriate for the military.

In the long, long history of organized and disciplined navies, the idea that one should not drink -- constantly, with your superiors and your inferiors, for any reason or none at all -- is so rare that it's like the "primates" section of a timeline of the entire Earth.
posted by Etrigan at 5:56 PM on July 22, 2023

S2E7, the crossover with Lowerdecks, is available for me.

It's showing up as "SURPRISE EPISODE NOW STREAMING" on the Paramount+ website.
posted by Etrigan at 5:57 PM on July 22, 2023

Yeah, my wife and I were settling down to knock out a couple more Ahsoka-centric episodes of Clone Wars when she got an alert on her phone, and I figured it was just a day late alert for Lost In Translation but _noooooo_.

So good, guys. So good.
posted by Kyol at 6:02 PM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

Oh my god.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:17 PM on July 22, 2023

When the scene cut over to the (always new and exciting) xenobiology lab, was Sam finishing his last bite of that cookie before he started to talk? 🍪
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:38 PM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

Weirdly I read the Jim-Sam dynamic as kind of common sibling stuff where they had traditionally mocked each other’s achievements and desires as a (poor) way of bonding. Sam has realized that’s kind of not his thing but Jim hasn’t and so they are communicating in totally different ways. It doesn’t really make Jim look good but does provide a reason why he’d be behaving that way and also seemingly confused by Sam’s seemingly dramatic response. Anyway Jim’s behavior with his brother is basically the only part I didn’t like but even it isn’t exactly an unbelievable character bit.
posted by R343L at 8:49 PM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

And in no universe is Chris Hemsworth believable as the father of a 26-year-old.

Chris Hemsworth is 39, he’s just the youngest space dad in Starfleet history.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:09 PM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

Lot of people saying sabotage in this one.
posted by surlyben at 10:55 PM on July 22, 2023 [5 favorites]

I sincerely hope they feature Anson Mount in a couple of the remaining episodes.

My understanding is that Mount became a father just around the time filming for this season began so the producers were trying to give him a relatively light schedule for a bit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:00 AM on July 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

Lot of people saying sabotage in this one.

I was going to say, that was a missed step there. If you're gonna be Kirk saying "sabotage," there is a way of these things.

Not fond of the "very weird noise at loud volumes" they've done in 2/6 episodes so far. Between this and the tinnitus-FX, I want to sit the sound team down and talk about less can be more.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:52 PM on July 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

While I really enjoy the show, the one thing that always throws me is how much bigger and glitzier and comfortable the new Enterprise is compared with the TOS version. Not only does it have a bar with magically stable bottles but it also has a swanky chandelier with a sparkly door. This is much more a TNG-era Enterprise D ship that it should be.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, because our Fully Automated Gay Space Communism is necessarily going to be a bit more glitzier and comfortable than we could imagine it being 55 years ago. (It does seem weird that, after being shown in a bunk last season, Uhura already has her own bedroom as an ensign.) Having a Eight-Forward on the original Enterprise does make a little bit of sense. I don't want holodeck episodes, but I don't even think I would be too mad about a holodeck just being shown since they are basically shooting the show on one.

That said, the thing that drives me absolutely nuts is that phasers now shoot bolts instead of beams. Why are they doing this? It's been beams for decades!
posted by thecaddy at 7:31 AM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

That said, the thing that drives me absolutely nuts is that phasers now shoot bolts instead of beams. Why are they doing this? It's been beams for decades!

I noticed this in the final season of Picard. Really dislike it.
posted by briank at 8:24 AM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

That said, the thing that drives me absolutely nuts is that phasers now shoot bolts instead of beams. Why are they doing this? It's been beams for decades!

Side effect of better cameras that can capture more light so they don't need to have their shutters open for as long. Which is to say they were always bolts, but the cameras the documentary teams are using now can capture the bolt in flight.

/s
posted by Kyol at 9:52 AM on July 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

Kyol, I am awarding you a No-Prize for that!
posted by sixswitch at 2:34 PM on July 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

This was fine, good to get an Uhura episode, liked the scene between Spock and Chapel, etc. etc.

When this show truly goes bad, though, it's going to be because of its insistence that the most interesting thing it can do is show me someone calling himself Kirk.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:28 PM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

I still maintain that this Kirk reminds me of a Muppet but he is sort of starting to grow on me. I feel like this episode marked the first time I felt like I got where Paul Wesley was taking the character. I think it makes sense to do a reset, in a sense - Kelvin timeline Kirk, the one we've seen most recently, had a very different early life from Prime timeline Kirk, and this show is taking pains to remind us of it. This Kirk is a cocky but immature ladder-climber.

In general, I really liked this one! I've been thinking a lot about LLMs and concepts and how non human intelligences might communicate concepts to us and this actually gave me some interesting stuff to chew on. Also funny given the last episode's title that in some sense, the life forms were playing a grim sort of charades.

Celia Rose Goosing was fantastic in this.

I will say, I work for a company that feels a lot like Starfleet in a number of ways and one of those ways is that you're certainly allowed to not get promoted because you like your current job, but there's a certain amount of "but don't you want 39 pieces of flair???" thinking going on in management. People who are motivated by climbing the ladder find those of us who truly aren't a little suspicious and baffling. Lower Decks has actually addressed the "perma-IC or management track" divide in high-achieving orgs with tremendous success a few times over the seasons. I am absolutely certain someone has thought when dealing with me or my colleagues "if you're such hot shit why are you still at your (unimpressive) level" and mentally discounted our opinions accordingly.
posted by potrzebie at 11:12 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]