Star Trek: Strange New Worlds: Charades

July 13, 2023 9:53 AM - Season 2, Episode 5

Spock has a very crucial meeting with the future in-laws to attend, but he may be missing a couple of important points.

Memory Alpha is looking for par'mach in all the wrong places:

- Mia Kirshner previously played Amanda Grayson (a role originated by Jane Wyatt on TOS) on seasons 1 and 2 of Star Trek: Discovery.

- Chapel recites Korby's Principles of Archaelogical Medicine:
--1. Medicine is always ancient and new, as cultures' understanding of what medicine is changes over time.
--2. The keys to solving our toughest medical problems are often found by looking backward.
--3. As a result, archaeological medicine is as much a study of history as it is of science.
Roger Korby is assumed to be the author; he was a character in TOS' "What Are Little Girls Made Of?", a first-season episode written by Psycho author Robert Bloch and also the first appearance of Christine Chapel.

- Other people may have realized this before now, but the hue of blue used in the science and medical uniforms is different.

"Don't test me, Kirk! I will break you!"
"I'll clean it up."
--Spock and Sam Kirk

Poster's Log:

Another episode of SNW that has a lot of laughs but also delves into pretty deep emotional territory; it's also the most DS9-esque episode of the series so far--the set-up (fiance(e) being challenged by the disapproving prospective mother-in-law) somewhat similar to "You Are Cordially Invited", not to mention some incorporeal beings in a hole in space possessed of impressive powers and radically different psyches. It also uses the trope of the character, usually an alien or AI to some degree, temporarily changing to allow the actor to stretch their acting chops by having that character affected in a way that gives them a different (usually much greater) emotional range: Nimoy, Spiner, Auberjonois, Ryan, for example. But it also moves Spock's and Chapel's (and T'Pring's, for that matter) character arcs forward, in a maybe-unexpected direction, depending on exactly where it ends up taking them. I mean, they could very well start out next week's episode just kind of going, "Hmm, maybe not," which would keep continuity, although I'm still trusting this show to do something more interesting with it.

My one pretty minor quibble, and this is more of a alternative casting choice, is that, while the actress playing T'Pring's mom was OK, I immediately thought of Shohreh Aghdashloo, who had one small role in the Kelvin timeline movies (as Commodore Paris), and would have been great as this type of character... maybe she'll show up sometime as T'Pau? One can dream.

Poster's Log, supplemental: I thought that Vulcans were all vegetarians, but maybe not? That's a lotta bacon.

Poster's Log, supplemental, why-must-I-be-a-teenager-in-love edition: Did anyone else wonder if Spock was starting to have a certain physical reaction when he was talking to La'an? Just me?

posted by Halloween Jack (70 comments total)

Did anyone else wonder if Spock was starting to have a certain physical reaction when he was talking to La'an? Just me?

Definitely just you, I never think about PeckSpock boners, no way
posted by rhymedirective at 10:22 AM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]

Don't call them Chapock because that name's already taken. I guess their romantic portmanteau will have to be Spapel.

It also uses the trope of the character, usually an alien or AI to some degree, temporarily changing to allow the actor to stretch their acting chops by having that character affected in a way that gives them a different (usually much greater) emotional range

Yeah, and this was a quite striking example of the Trek trope. Peck has comic chops but also the ability to wordlessly show the effect of the hypo just by slightly shifting the muscles around his eyes. Just…dang.

One of this show's more TOS-like music hits (outside of that one dream Spock had) happens when Spock realizes he's been Humanized. Great fun. And in the latter half, how much fun was Anson Mount having?!

If this show's seasons were 20+ episodes long, I'd bet on seeing Young Attractive Roger Korby show up, to instigate a love triangle with Spapel. As it is, I'm not so sure. Could've just been a namedrop.

Still trying to decide how I feel about Vulcan culture having a canonical Airing of Grievances. It's not like I can't see it.

Intriguingly, Memory Alpha indicates that the first two episodes of the season have later stardates than the last three. I wonder if this was a decision based on dramatic pacing of the season, or something more specific to the story.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:35 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]

This was so good. I don't think I could find even a single thing to criticize.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:58 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]

This felt like a TNG season 8 tweet pitch - "Spock is made human by interdimensional aliens and must have dinner with his future mother-in-law. Pike makes tuiles."

Loved it.
posted by Molesome at 1:00 PM on July 13, 2023 [16 favorites]

La'an's face as she rapidly exited Spock's quarters after thier Big Emotions talk was ::chef kiss::
posted by Faintdreams at 1:29 PM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]

“Oh my GOD, Christine, come on!”
“Seriously!”

dying
posted by Etrigan at 2:33 PM on July 13, 2023 [12 favorites]

god this show is so consistently good

Mrs. Fedora commented after watching it that Spock and Chapel is by far the good Star Trek romance and she wants nothing but the best for them

and once again

HIJINKS👏ARE👏THE👏ONLY👏LOGICAL👏OPTION
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:49 PM on July 13, 2023 [13 favorites]

Just as O’Brien Must Suffer, I hope once a season Spock Must Hijinks.
posted by Servo5678 at 3:35 PM on July 13, 2023 [17 favorites]

I was sceptical when I first found out the premise of this episode, because it's so silly, but I loved it. It's my favourite of the season so far. I liked both the humorous exploration of the consequences and the more serious turn towards the end. I liked that the wedge in Spock and T'Pring's relationship was based on a genuine breach of trust rather than some stupid contrivance, and that it happened because Spock made a choice not to share information with her (in part because he wanted to spare her the additional stress, but also out of self-preservation!). I liked that it was ultimately all for nothing because he revealed the subterfuge in the end, and that he did that for his mother.

I liked that the highly advanced aliens were introduced as a cross between perfunctory customer service employees and people who really hated using the phone (you called me!).

In general I like that the gradual deterioration of this romantic relationship is playing out in such a devastatingly logical way without T'Pring being made into the bad guy. These are people who like each other and could have been happy together, but for various good reasons it's just not going to work out.

I had to pause to look up the actress playing T'Pril as soon as she came into the room, because I was sure I'd seen her before, and she's the mom in "Sort Of"! (I watched the whole series after finding out about it here on FanFare, and I really liked it.)
posted by confluency at 4:27 PM on July 13, 2023 [14 favorites]

My one pretty minor quibble, and this is more of a alternative casting choice, is that, while the actress playing T'Pring's mom was OK, I immediately thought of Shohreh Aghdashloo

Funny we got Michael Benyaer as Sevet instead — Benyaer played Aghdashloo’s husband Arjun The Expanse after the original actor had a scheduling conflict.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:25 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]

Oh, it's gonna hurt SO BAD when this all goes wrong. And there's no chance it doesn't go all wrong. I am crying in my plomeek soup already. (You can bet Chris Pike doesn't make his plomeek soup in the toilet)
posted by briank at 7:20 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]

Fun little episode. But that's not how genetics work. And again with the alchemy set and flasks of food colouring.

But then again, half-extraterrestrial shouldn't either.

I kind of like this version of Spock's mom (Amanda).

Go Christine and Spock!
posted by porpoise at 7:23 PM on July 13, 2023

honestly I loved the fact that "Charades" sounds almost exaggeratedly like a Star Trek single-word episode title, but it wound up being completely appropriate, and then the actual game sacred ritual of charades was the cherry on top

I would be very into a guaranteed hijinks episode once per season, yes, why do you ask
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:44 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]

I was sort of rolling my eyes that they were trying to hide it from Amanda. Like, if theres a single person in this whole affair who's uniquely positioned to understand, it's going to be Amanda.
posted by Kyol at 7:58 PM on July 13, 2023 [11 favorites]

I hate that this show doesn't run the actual episode title on the screen. I didn't get that the charades bit was supposed to be a joke on the title because I didn't know what the title was until I DoctorFedora's comment above. (Yes, I plead guilty of not paying attention to the show's title at the top of the post). I've been watching Trek long enough (and seen enough episodes repeated as reruns) that for the most part if somebody names a TOS or TNG episode title, I usually have a clue about what episode they're referencing. With this series, I won't be able to say the same thing.

I loved the Vulcan fashions this episode. Fabulous! But I have no idea what was going on with Spock's hair (even before he became human). It seemed like his wig was double layered (or something) and curlier than usual. It was very strange. Speaking of hair, I see Pike's was standing up nice and tall while he had his formal uniform on. It seems we haven't had a discussion about Pike's hair in a while, so I guess it's time.
posted by sardonyx at 9:53 PM on July 13, 2023 [8 favorites]

You're right, sardonyx, there should be a bullet point in the OP about What Pike's Hair Was Like In This Episode. I also liked that his formal uniform was a reference to the TOS green one.

I really enjoyed this episode as well. Particularly the "do I really sound like that?" and bacon moments.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:59 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

I loved this one. Human Spock was delightfully unnerving.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:10 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

Pike’s finger gun yes to T’Pring’s dad asking for more snacks was the best.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:12 AM on July 14, 2023 [29 favorites]

I must just say that being an original fan of tHe L Word - I do get a brain ache at seeing th actress currently playing Spock's Mom.

Actress is great! But if ya know.. y know.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:26 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

I do get a brain ache at seeing th actress currently playing Spock's Mom

She'll always be Sarah from The Crow: City of Angels to me.

This is my favorite episode of the season so far, for sure. Ethan Peck's acting chops, Mia Kirshner's gentle love for her struggling son, the absolute sublimeness of Anson Mount's reaction faces... it all comes together SO WELL.
posted by hanov3r at 8:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]

I assume in a production like this that the cast have been doing impressions of each other all along, and they just got to do so on camera for this episode.
posted by channaher at 9:34 AM on July 14, 2023 [9 favorites]

Apparently, cowlicks are human genetic thing?
posted by Karmakaze at 9:51 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

I have to say that in more than half a century of Trek and hundreds of characters, the role of “henpecked Vulcan husband” has never yet come up. The biggest surprise is that it did so here and not in Lower Decks.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:18 AM on July 14, 2023 [18 favorites]

It's also nice to see a Vulcan that is into Human culture for a change! It's a small detail that really opens up the whole damn fictional world.

(Fits in well with my longstanding "there are Vulcan Jesuits" headcanon, too!)
posted by thecaddy at 10:55 AM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

the absolute sublimeness of Anson Mount's reaction faces

Right after he struggles to come up with something and produces "...charades?", there's a self-reaction shot that I imagined was the result of the director saying, "Now make a face like you just said something so stupid you gave yourself a stroke."
posted by The Tensor at 12:41 PM on July 14, 2023 [16 favorites]

It seems we haven't had a discussion about Pike's hair in a while, so I guess it's time.

Has Anson Mount's hair always been so excellent? I cannot remember seeing him in anything until SNW so I don't know!
posted by fiercekitten at 1:31 PM on July 14, 2023

Did anyone else wonder if Spock was starting to have a certain physical reaction when he was talking to La'an? Just me?

Maybe, but we won't find out for seven years.



Has Anson Mount's hair always been so excellent? I cannot remember seeing him in anything until SNW so I don't know!

Here he is in the trailer for 2002's Crossroads with Britney Spears and Zoe Saldana.
posted by fairmettle at 1:59 PM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

... a movie with Pike, an alternate Uhura, and Valeris!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:53 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

If you look up pictures of Mount's hair in Hell on Wheels (which he was in with Colm Meaney, of course), it's longish with a shorter beard than he had in S1E1 of this show. His hair in Inhumans, like the show itself, is nothing special.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:30 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also amazing, Pike’s aborted canapé pass when Spock drops the bomb.
posted by sixswitch at 3:40 PM on July 14, 2023 [14 favorites]

I really thought somebody was going to reach out and snatch those points off his ears at the dinner. I didn't expect him to do it himself!

So is it that humans have primate stink? Or could it be all the laundry detergent, aftershave, perfume, body spray, high-lift hair products and etc. that offend the Vulcan nostrils?

(Pretty sure it's Sam Kirk wearing all the body spray)
posted by tomboko at 6:38 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sam were an Axe man, but this has actually been part of the franchise before; ENT established that humans have a smell that Vulcans can detect (I think that T'Pol used some sort of olfactory anesthetic, as well)--I thought that it might have been an analogy to bata kusai, the "butter stink" that Japanese used to complain came from Westerners who ate a lot of dairy products (before they started to consume more of that themselves). Also, Klingons were also said to have a distinct odor; it was remarked on in Star Trek VI and also the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations" although in the latter it was characterized as "a peaty aroma, with a hint of lilac."
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:03 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

I don’t really have anything to add here, but this was just a perfect episode of Trek. Hijinx, goofy science, personality switches, great emotional beats, and hair that belongs on the back of a 1960 Cadillac.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:21 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]

Mount's comedic chops, especially, were on display here, but I don't think this would have worked nearly as well if the direction and editing weren't as adept with comedy, as they surely were. The editing beats for Mount's reactions mentioned above were perfect.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:20 PM on July 14, 2023 [12 favorites]

Thank you for contacting the Kerkhovians. Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received.

(Inter dimensional hold music)
posted by Naberius at 10:29 PM on July 14, 2023 [20 favorites]

T’Pring’s dad being just HERE to engage in the cultural interchange but shutdown by his wife was fairly hilarious. Totally here for it being admitted that Vulcans can have bad relationships.

Also I like how they are setting up a backstory for why T’Pring will eventually spring a challenge at the time of mating rather than bonding with Spock. Because she’s not wrong to feel uncomfortable with him not sharing what was going on and so she’s also going to go find other men to be with and find Stonn. Though how this ritual dinner and parental acceptance thing works if you can just spring an alternate partner when plak tow happens.

The Kerkhovians also were kept at the right level of unexplained but helpful to the plot. Nice to not have any attempt to make them more clear as they aren’t really the point of the episode.
posted by R343L at 11:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

I really appreciate the way that this series does earnest drama really well, but also at the same time it is absolutely the funniest-on-purpose non-Lower-Decks Star Trek since DS9
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:53 AM on July 15, 2023 [13 favorites]

So, if Spock and T'Pring are Ross and Rachel, does that make Chapel Phoebe or that Enligh girl he jilted at the altar? Clearly Ortegas is Chandler, and Una is Monica, so I guess Pike is Joey?
posted by briank at 6:28 AM on July 15, 2023 [1 favorite]

Obligatory Friends Star Trek intro. (slYouTube)
posted by Mogur at 7:18 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]

They all hit this one out of the park:

Directed by Jordan Canning

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers

Staff Writer Onitra Johnson

Brav[oa]!
posted by mikelieman at 7:28 AM on July 15, 2023 [5 favorites]

Aha! I didn't realize Kathryn Lyn (whose name I recognize from Lower Decks) wrote this episode. Definitely helps it be as funny-on-purpose as it is.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:43 AM on July 15, 2023 [1 favorite]

I need see outtakes of the scene where Uhura, La'an, Una, and Ortegas attempt to explain Vulcan dialogue quirks to Human Spock. That was such a delight.

Also super-bummed we didn't get a Pelia/Amanda meeting, they can't drop a bomb like that (I knew your mother) early on in the season and then not pay it off.

Spock really screwed things up with T'Pring. We know from last season that she is down for some hijinks, he would have been much better off telling her.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:22 PM on July 15, 2023 [10 favorites]

I'm just sad that we didn't actually get to see them play charades, because the whole "sounds like" bit has to be just Calvinball with the universal translator running in the background.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:42 PM on July 15, 2023 [5 favorites]

I think there's a real case to be made for the importance of being skilled at the sacred game of charades among humans who want to mate for life. It's the closest humans can come to mind-melding.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 3:12 PM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]

...hee! That was a delight, no notes.
posted by Space Kitty at 11:11 PM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]

Roger Korby is assumed to be the author; he was a character in TOS' "What Are Little Girls Made Of?", a first-season episode written by Psycho author Robert Bloch and also the first appearance of Christine Chapel

Spoiler for 60s Trek - Korby becomes Chapel's fiancée.

I'm really glad they are seeding that in.
posted by crossoverman at 12:46 AM on July 16, 2023

Enjoyed this episode more than I expected; I don't normally go for goofy comedy but this worked and was a nice callback to those sillier parts of TOS. Peck's excellent performance was key as was Mount's brilliance as a support comedic actor. And the directing: I liked how they used the chorus of extra officers as a foil for occasional punctuation. (Compare Peck's "I'm me but not me" to Brent Spiner playing Data/Lore/etc in the final Picard season...)

And as folks have remarked beyond the comic there were some serious themes here. Amanda Grayson's suffering and coping with Vulcan society, as embodied by T'Pril. The part where she talks about how she can carry the hot teapot with her bare hands because she's learned to bear physical pain... yikes. And the B plot was nice, Chapel telling off the Vulcan Science Academy. Vulcan sure looks like a shitty place all in all.

I have a mild science quibble. All the action takes place on the moon of Kerkhov(*). Where there's a basically unknown ancient civilization sitting right there, just a short hop from Vulcan. How have the Vulcans never explored the place themselves, maybe found the giant interdimensional portal that was glowing and putting out gravimetric radiation? Also there's a bit where the crew says they can't contact anyone because of interference and they're all "over a light year away". This planet in the Vulcan system, it's a full light year away from the other planets? Huh. Minus 10 points for Hufflepuff.

(*) is this the first mention of Kherkov in the canon? Remarkable choice of name; perhaps the Vulcan's neighbors were Ukrainians?
posted by Nelson at 7:09 AM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

Huh. Minus 10 points for Hufflepuff.

If you're subtracting points for story logic in this episode, its score is going to be very low indeed. It took me a while to let go of all the scientific nonsense and character contortions the writers went through to provide the laughs here. However, as a long time believer that Star Trek has had a strong element of intentional humor from the beginning, I finally threw my hands up and let the roller coaster of Charades take me on its zany ride.
posted by fairmettle at 11:12 AM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

Two more thoughts that have occurred to me since watching this:

1. Have we had a Trek episode before that went this hard on "fuck Vulcan culture"? DS9's "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is the only one I can think of that really comes close (and I'm not including pon-farr episodes, just ones that really highlight how shitty it is to be around Vulcans on a standard day.) But both main plots of this episode ended with essentially giving Vulcan society a middle finger in purely symbolic victories.

2. As far as an emotional climx goes, story-theory-wise, it's hard to be what they constructed here, where in order for Chapel to complete her quest to restore Spock's Vulcan side, which will allow him to stay engaged to another woman, she has to convince inscrutable customer service reps by finally admitting out loud her feelings for him. That's pretty great, and I applaud Kathryn Lyn for making that scene happen.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:17 AM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

(*) is this the first mention of Kherkov in the canon?

I might be imagining it, but I could swear I saw someone with the name "Kerkhove" in the production credits at the end of the episode. When I do my rewatch tomorrow night, I will try to verify. There is definitely a guy named "Matt Decker" who works on the show, too.
posted by briank at 11:24 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Have we had a Trek episode before that went this hard on "fuck Vulcan culture"?

The Lower Decks episode “wej Duj”.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:28 AM on July 17, 2023 [7 favorites]

The Lower Decks episode “wej Duj”.

ALSO WRITTEN BY KATHRYN LYN! (whose namesake character, T'Lyn, takes the brunt of Vulcan bullshit in that one!)
posted by Navelgazer at 11:31 AM on July 17, 2023 [8 favorites]

Have we had a Trek episode before that went this hard on "fuck Vulcan culture"?

I'd say there were chunks of that in ENT - "Fusion" and "Stigma", maybe along with the "Awakenings"/"Kir'Shara" arc.
posted by hanov3r at 2:27 PM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Vulcans on ENT were so untrustworthy they were basically Romulans.
posted by crossoverman at 3:24 PM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

I mean, even in TOS the Vulcans were kind of assholes. Sarek rejected his (incredibly accomplished and half-human by his choice) son because of "logic", and the whole plot of "Amok Time" suggests that Vulcans really don't care if outsiders live or die, only that the proper rituals are observed.
posted by The Tensor at 4:19 PM on July 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

We finally watched this episode and only thing I have to add to these shenanigans is that I continue to be amazed at the level of acting in this series. Peck, Bush, Mount, Sandhu, and Kirshner were particularly impressive in this one.
posted by Ber at 2:35 AM on July 18, 2023 [5 favorites]

Peck, Bush, Mount, Sandhu, and Kirshner were particularly impressive in this one.

For real though. My exposure to TOS-era trek is very limited (mostly to what I've picked up through cultural osmosis plus seeing the first three movies earlier this week.) As such, I have a decent feel for Kirk and Spock as played by Shatner and Nimoy, but not much of, say, Majel Barrett as Chapel*. But I know that Jess Bush is making Nurse Chapel probably my favorite character on this show full of characters I love, in fierce competition with Ethan Peck's Spock. Clearly the writers have a lot of fun giving Peck different muscles to stretch playing Spock, and Peck is very game for it, but he absolutely kills it every time (while, as I've said before, not doing a Nimoy impression! It's crazy-impressive!) He does an amazing thing here in that montage of him getting comfortable being fully human, where the first time we see him laughing in the lounge, he's doing that thing you'll see little kids do sometimes where they make themselves laugh to fit in with an older crowd because they're learning the cues of humor, and then we see him a moment later in the montage laughing naturally. It's honestly an incredible touch.

Kirshner immediately felt too young to be playing Amanda Grayson, to me (though I guess Spock is supposed to be only 29 Earth-years old in the timeline here, that seems way too young to me for a space-elf) but Kirshner brought so much to the role here. I haven't seen what she did with the character on DISCO, but given how much of the story here rests on Spock finally cracking so as to come to her defense, she quietly and subtly earns every bit of that. Sandhu has always brought it as T'Pring (and as Spock, for that matter) but she had to thread the needle here of being sympathetic in breaking things off with Spock here while still playing emotionlessness in an episode that, as I said above, is very not kind to Vulcan cultural mores, and she 100% pulled it off.

And, of course, Mount was largely here for comic reaction shots, but he had so much fun in that role that I almost want that to be Pike's primary purpose on the show. (And now I wish that TNG had had enough of a handle on intentional comedy that it had let Picard do that more often. Stewart got to do a little of that but you know he would have had a ball doing more of it.)

Anyway, amazing episode, please please please give us one HIJINKS👏ARE👏THE👏ONLY👏LOGICAL👏OPTION ep per season please and thank you.

*Majel Barrett will always be Lwaxana Troi for me, first and foremost, for better or worse. Worse because I can't stand Lwaxana in TNG, but I think DS9 brought a lot of nuance and dignity to the character.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:12 AM on July 18, 2023 [9 favorites]

Kirshner immediately felt too young to be playing Amanda Grayson, to me (though I guess Spock is supposed to be only 29 Earth-years old in the timeline here, that seems way too young to me for a space-elf)

The problem is less Mia Kirshner and more Ethan Peck.

Amanda was canonically born in 2210, with Spock born in either 2230 or 2233. "Charades" takes place in 2259. Mia Kirshner is 48 - almost dead on. Ethan Peck is 37, making him between 8 and 11 years older than the character he's playing.
posted by hanov3r at 2:22 PM on July 18, 2023 [8 favorites]

I might be imagining it, but I could swear I saw someone with the name "Kerkhove" in the production credits at the end of the episode.

I must have been imagining it, because I could not find it again. But the Mat Decker credit is 100% real.
posted by briank at 5:07 AM on July 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

This was so good. I don't think I could find even a single thing to criticize.

The tevmel was all wrong.
posted by gauche at 11:06 AM on July 21, 2023 [7 favorites]

Yes, I see that now. The tevmel is best described as "adequate". Is there any left?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:21 AM on July 22, 2023 [12 favorites]

This was so good.

I really loved how it did both "Vulcan culture seems pretty shitty" and "removing Spock's Vulcanness is intolerable." And somehow it worked!
posted by BungaDunga at 4:40 PM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]

This was an absolute delight. I am entirely on board with this show just giving Ethan Peck weird shit to do and letting him rise to the occasion, it rules
posted by potrzebie at 10:29 PM on August 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

I'm really behind and only just saw this episode and it was incredible. Ethan Peck is such a good actor and his time as a human was hilarious, sometimes cringy, and sad, sometimes all at once. Fantastic job.

I just wanted more scenes of Pike and Sevet hanging out and eating snacks together.
posted by ceejaytee at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

Amanda was canonically born in 2210, with Spock born in either 2230 or 2233. "Charades" takes place in 2259. Mia Kirshner is 48 - almost dead on. Ethan Peck is 37, making him between 8 and 11 years older than the character he's playing.

Oh wow! I also thought Amanda looked obscenely young -- "Sarek robbed the cradle for his second wife" young -- because she and Spock both look like they're thirtysomethings. Mia Kirshner just looks incredibly millennial.

But even so, this episode is perfect. I love that they managed to make T'Pring into such an appealing character. I don't think anything excuses what happens in the original Amok Time, but I can see why she'd want to be done with him. The show doesn't just make you like T'Pring; it lets you see that Spock is a terrible fiance.
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:21 PM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

Amanda was canonically born in 2210, with Spock born in either 2230 or 2233. "Charades" takes place in 2259. Mia Kirshner is 48 - almost dead on. Ethan Peck is 37, making him between 8 and 11 years older than the character he's playing.

So Sarek married a human teenager? What? At the age of 75? I’m not going to entertain this idea. I’m going to just wipe it from my brain.
posted by bq at 4:00 PM on September 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think it has been noted before that Amanda's first appearance in New Trek was in a flashback scene on Discovery which took place over a decade before the present day. In that flashback she was age-appropriately cast. Then they kept the same actress, understandably, which has led to this awkward contracted age gap in the present.

After seeing this in my activity I went to look at screencaps of Amanda again, because she looks amazing here. I really like the different hair, makeup and costuming decisions that SNW has made, which have made the same actress look very different, and in my opinion much better (in Discovery I thought she looked a lot more generic -- a hair and makeup professional could probably explain exactly why). I do think that she looks older here (but maybe that's just because the actress is older).

Something that I keep noticing (and which I don't think I've seen anyone else remark on) is that her SNW hairstyles conceal the rounded tips of her ears -- something which 100% makes sense to me, since to Vulcans (especially conservative Vulcans who have little contact with aliens) they would be a difference verging on disfigurement.
posted by confluency at 2:33 AM on September 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

a flashback scene on Discovery which took place over a decade before the present day. In that flashback she was age-appropriately cast.

I mean, kind of? "Lethe" aired October of 2017, showing flashbacks to 2249 (which is just a decade prior to 'present day'). Mia Kirshner was 41 or (more likely) 42 at the time of filming; Amanda would have been 39.

Now, as noted, Mia is 48, while Amanda is 49. Which is more age-appropriate casting?
posted by hanov3r at 8:15 AM on September 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

Hmm, fair. I was misremembering this, and didn't do the maths.
posted by confluency at 4:50 AM on September 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

This is the first love triangle I've given a damn about since... Casablanca? It would be so easy for this to be written as a hapless man torn between a cold bitch and a hot home-wrecker. But T'Pring is very progressive and warm for a Vulcan, and clearly cares deeply for Spock. She's up for any logically necessary hijinks too, which makes me love her. While Chapel has shown a genuine effort to support Spock's choices and needs even at her own expense, without a hint of disdain for T'Pring. Both are smart and competent, and all three actors have great chemistry. Spock's real problem is that he loves Starfleet more than he loves T'Pring, and as said above, he's a terrible fiancé.

My prediction is that all of this gets squared with TOS by having Chapel be an avoidant-attachment type. Based on what else we've heard about her social life from Ortegas, half of the appeal of Spock for her must be that he's unavailable. If he's actually into her and able to be with her, that's probably going to be too much closeness for her to bear.
posted by harriet vane at 6:49 AM on October 14, 2023 [6 favorites]