Daredevil: Rabbit in a Snowstorm
April 12, 2015 12:06 PM - Season 1, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Daredevil takes on assassin John Healy for the name of the mysterious "kingpin" behind the recent attacks on Hell's Kitchen. Meanwhile, Karen returns to Union Allied Construction.
I liked this episode a lot more than the first two, and the fight with Healy worked for me a lot more than the previous fights did.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:24 PM on April 12, 2015
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:24 PM on April 12, 2015
D'Onofrio is killing it as the Kingpin, as is Vondie Curtis-Hall as Ben Urich. The dude playing Healy is creepy as hell, and that's good.
posted by eclectist at 3:35 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 3:35 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, Fisk's right man is like Evil Ira Glass and IT IS DELIGHTFUL.
posted by Kitteh at 3:59 PM on April 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 3:59 PM on April 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I was very happy with the noir tone of the show after the first two episodes (Friday night for me) and this was where I was all-in over the moon. I like Curtis-Hall and I very much like his Urich. I was a little skeptical about if he was sufficiently grizzled and weathered with this episode (vs simply dealing with something really awful at the moment) but the next episode convinced me. But I was pleased they took a chance to put a little more color into DD's world.
So far D'Onofrio is less interesting to me as Kingpin than the mythology of him being built up (we don't say his name) but I like his presence and am primed to be very happy.
My only grump with this episode is that I don't know that I buy Karen keeping this from Matt&Foggy. They suggested she have her own council review the agreement. Yeah yeah, everyone I involve dies... but you already involved them and it's a contract. She knows they're True Justice Crusaders for Good so they'd be able to talk about if she should sign and let this go.
posted by phearlez at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
So far D'Onofrio is less interesting to me as Kingpin than the mythology of him being built up (we don't say his name) but I like his presence and am primed to be very happy.
My only grump with this episode is that I don't know that I buy Karen keeping this from Matt&Foggy. They suggested she have her own council review the agreement. Yeah yeah, everyone I involve dies... but you already involved them and it's a contract. She knows they're True Justice Crusaders for Good so they'd be able to talk about if she should sign and let this go.
posted by phearlez at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
My only grump with this episode is that I don't know that I buy Karen keeping this from Matt&Foggy. They suggested she have her own council review the agreement. Yeah yeah, everyone I involve dies... but you already involved them and it's a contract. She knows they're True Justice Crusaders for Good so they'd be able to talk about if she should sign and let this go.
Yeah, I thought that was odd too. My only friends are lawyers! Better not have them look at this.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:20 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I thought that was odd too. My only friends are lawyers! Better not have them look at this.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:20 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Kinda boring episode but I guess that it was necessary to set things up for future ones. I'm hoping that the show gets back on track although I might not have time to watch any more episodes until a week from now.
posted by octothorpe at 7:20 PM on April 12, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 7:20 PM on April 12, 2015
I thought she was keeping it from them because she was embarrassed that she was even considering taking the money to keep her mouth shut or that she would even take the meeting at all.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:39 PM on April 12, 2015
posted by miss-lapin at 8:39 PM on April 12, 2015
My only grump with this episode is that I don't know that I buy Karen keeping this from Matt&Foggy.
There is a running theme of 'Do You Sign The Thing The Devil Puts Before You' through the series. Various characters are faced with this choice, and the repercussions of said choice. This is one take on it and we see it again with different results.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:48 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
There is a running theme of 'Do You Sign The Thing The Devil Puts Before You' through the series. Various characters are faced with this choice, and the repercussions of said choice. This is one take on it and we see it again with different results.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:48 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, Fisk's right man is like Evil Ira Glass...
So, just like Ira Glass then?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
So, just like Ira Glass then?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I thought she was keeping it from them because she was embarrassed that she was even considering taking the money to keep her mouth shut or that she would even take the meeting at all.
I got the idea that Karen might not have brought it up to Matt and Foggy because they might have told her that the legally smart thing to do would be to sign, and she didn’t want to do that. That was what the other lawyer was urging her to do, after all.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:15 AM on April 13, 2015
I got the idea that Karen might not have brought it up to Matt and Foggy because they might have told her that the legally smart thing to do would be to sign, and she didn’t want to do that. That was what the other lawyer was urging her to do, after all.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:15 AM on April 13, 2015
I'm a guy who loves Daredevil so much as a character that it took me fully a month to admit the Affleck movie sucked. Been waiting for a show like this for awhile.
Know what category this show is absolutely killing it in? Eyewear. I'm not kidding. I don't know what the final costume looks like, whether or not he ever starts going by "Daredevil" and whether or not he'll sport the DD logo. What I do know is that the OTHER costume Murdock wears - his Matt Murdock, Attorney at Law costume - is already fully realized. Those round, red glasses are the superhero logo of that costume.
Likewise, when Urich first appears in this show, comics readers didn't need that other guy to start calling him "Benny, Benny, Benny" because at the first sight of those big square frames (and no goofy backwards cabbie hat), we knew we were seeing Ben Urich, alive onscreen.
A wish for this show, long term: I hate how Karen Page's story played out in the comics and, much like ignoring the shit-stupid idea that "Daredevil" was Matt's childhood nickname, I hope these showrunners have decided to ignore what Frank Miller and Kevin Smith wrote about Karen. I hope Secret Wars (not to derail off this show) straight up retcons out what Frank Miller and Kevin Smith wrote about Karen. She deserves better.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Know what category this show is absolutely killing it in? Eyewear. I'm not kidding. I don't know what the final costume looks like, whether or not he ever starts going by "Daredevil" and whether or not he'll sport the DD logo. What I do know is that the OTHER costume Murdock wears - his Matt Murdock, Attorney at Law costume - is already fully realized. Those round, red glasses are the superhero logo of that costume.
Likewise, when Urich first appears in this show, comics readers didn't need that other guy to start calling him "Benny, Benny, Benny" because at the first sight of those big square frames (and no goofy backwards cabbie hat), we knew we were seeing Ben Urich, alive onscreen.
A wish for this show, long term: I hate how Karen Page's story played out in the comics and, much like ignoring the shit-stupid idea that "Daredevil" was Matt's childhood nickname, I hope these showrunners have decided to ignore what Frank Miller and Kevin Smith wrote about Karen. I hope Secret Wars (not to derail off this show) straight up retcons out what Frank Miller and Kevin Smith wrote about Karen. She deserves better.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
And we as an audience deserve better than for her and Matt to get smoopy with each other after seeing her great chemistry with Foggy.
posted by phearlez at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
There is a running theme of 'Do You Sign The Thing The Devil Puts Before You' through the series. Various characters are faced with this choice, and the repercussions of said choice.
Sure. I mean, the inevitability of that happening down the road for Urich was set up within about 9 seconds of his first appearance. I'm okay with that. If there's an older fiction conflict than temptation then I don't know what it is. Anger, maybe, by about two heartbeats.
But I feel like the variety of explanations above indicate we're casting about a little for an excuse for this action and I don't think we should have to. Karen resisting signing? Sure. Karen ashamed of being tempted, sure. Being told to sign and lying about signing or not signing, sure. Trying not to think about it one way or another, sure. Etc and on. But her hiding it entirely just doesn't seem to make sense. She seeks out the dead man's husband looking for an ally... but not her employers?
My outside-the-disbelief take is that probably something was in there that was cut for time or redundancy (since Urich tells her to sign as well). Perhaps there was something showing her questioning Matt and Foggy's real devotion here, given them taking on this obviously guilty client for a sleazebag. But I don't feel like we got that and it took me out of it a bit.
posted by phearlez at 10:19 AM on April 13, 2015
Sure. I mean, the inevitability of that happening down the road for Urich was set up within about 9 seconds of his first appearance. I'm okay with that. If there's an older fiction conflict than temptation then I don't know what it is. Anger, maybe, by about two heartbeats.
But I feel like the variety of explanations above indicate we're casting about a little for an excuse for this action and I don't think we should have to. Karen resisting signing? Sure. Karen ashamed of being tempted, sure. Being told to sign and lying about signing or not signing, sure. Trying not to think about it one way or another, sure. Etc and on. But her hiding it entirely just doesn't seem to make sense. She seeks out the dead man's husband looking for an ally... but not her employers?
My outside-the-disbelief take is that probably something was in there that was cut for time or redundancy (since Urich tells her to sign as well). Perhaps there was something showing her questioning Matt and Foggy's real devotion here, given them taking on this obviously guilty client for a sleazebag. But I don't feel like we got that and it took me out of it a bit.
posted by phearlez at 10:19 AM on April 13, 2015
I'm enjoying the series. There's probably only about a dozen shows over the past five years where I've watched a full season - this might actually become one of them.
The 'do or die' element for me will be whether they can keep up the continuity. This has killed other series for me, where - at the end of the season - you realize that the writers had no idea what they were doing. So far the signs are good that Daredevil is going to have a well-crafted season arc.
Some of you bingers probably already know whether they succeed.
There are other things that I appreciate about this show:
- It's old-fashioned good guys vs bad guys. There is no interstellar evil planning on destroying all sentient life on earth unless the hero can put the fifth element in the tesseract and lock the bad guys in a space-time bubble.
- Fights look like they hurt, people get tired and run out of breath, and bruises and cuts don't heal by morning. It's a bit more visceral and real than most superhero shows I've seen.
- Women look and act like real people, not silicon-injected fantasy figures. Also, they were real clothes instead of rubber fetish gear.
On the man-candy front:
I'm impressed with Charlie Cox's physical transformation. I read he added 20 pounds of muscle, and has to do a full routine before filming a shirtless scene (no water, binge on donuts for the sugar, then do 20 push ups). It's too bad they always make the heroes wax their chests ... though this plus this might just break my tv.
posted by kanewai at 12:02 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
The 'do or die' element for me will be whether they can keep up the continuity. This has killed other series for me, where - at the end of the season - you realize that the writers had no idea what they were doing. So far the signs are good that Daredevil is going to have a well-crafted season arc.
Some of you bingers probably already know whether they succeed.
There are other things that I appreciate about this show:
- It's old-fashioned good guys vs bad guys. There is no interstellar evil planning on destroying all sentient life on earth unless the hero can put the fifth element in the tesseract and lock the bad guys in a space-time bubble.
- Fights look like they hurt, people get tired and run out of breath, and bruises and cuts don't heal by morning. It's a bit more visceral and real than most superhero shows I've seen.
- Women look and act like real people, not silicon-injected fantasy figures. Also, they were real clothes instead of rubber fetish gear.
On the man-candy front:
I'm impressed with Charlie Cox's physical transformation. I read he added 20 pounds of muscle, and has to do a full routine before filming a shirtless scene (no water, binge on donuts for the sugar, then do 20 push ups). It's too bad they always make the heroes wax their chests ... though this plus this might just break my tv.
posted by kanewai at 12:02 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't know much about the character in the comics, but I love how Kingpin is introduced here. It's not at all what I was expecting.
posted by brundlefly at 3:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by brundlefly at 3:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
As seen on Twitter:
BATMAN: "I have to save my city"
DAREDEVIL: "I have to save my... suburb"
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:06 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
BATMAN: "I have to save my city"
DAREDEVIL: "I have to save my... suburb"
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:06 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Know what category this show is absolutely killing it in? Eyewear. I'm not kidding.
Oh just you wait. There is some awesome eyewear coming up in episode 7.
I am enjoying the hell out of this series. D'onofrio's savant-like take on Kingpin is just delicious.
And echoing upthread, the fights are visceral and real. DD gets beat up and you can feel it.
Argh I need you guys to all catch up so we can talk about it. squeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by Fleebnork at 6:49 AM on April 14, 2015
Oh just you wait. There is some awesome eyewear coming up in episode 7.
I am enjoying the hell out of this series. D'onofrio's savant-like take on Kingpin is just delicious.
And echoing upthread, the fights are visceral and real. DD gets beat up and you can feel it.
Argh I need you guys to all catch up so we can talk about it. squeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by Fleebnork at 6:49 AM on April 14, 2015
no water, binge on donuts for the sugar, then do 20 push ups
D'nofrio was only required to do the donut part of that regimen.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:28 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
D'nofrio was only required to do the donut part of that regimen.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:28 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am in admiration-love with Fisk's assistant Wesley. His henchman Wesley? Right-hand man Wesley? Nothing seems to fit except "Fisk's Wesley," because he is Fisk's man 100%, and his pure unshakeable loyalty makes them both scarier. Does Wesley have a comics counterpart? If not, he just shot up into my top 10 list of best MCU original characters.
The downside of Wesley's name is that I've already been making Dread Pirate Roberts jokes in my head about Matt's black outfit, and it does not help that I now keep slipping and calling him Westley.
posted by nicebookrack at 2:48 PM on April 14, 2015
The downside of Wesley's name is that I've already been making Dread Pirate Roberts jokes in my head about Matt's black outfit, and it does not help that I now keep slipping and calling him Westley.
posted by nicebookrack at 2:48 PM on April 14, 2015
I like that so far it is in many ways a classic noir detective story. Not a superhero story. He wins his fights not through super armour or being an actual god, but just by being really good at taking a beating.
I hope to see a bit more detectiving instead of the straight up torture that we've seen so far.
I don't really approve. Like, what was to stop Healy giving a fake name and then fleeing the city. That's what everyone else would have done.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:50 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I hope to see a bit more detectiving instead of the straight up torture that we've seen so far.
I don't really approve. Like, what was to stop Healy giving a fake name and then fleeing the city. That's what everyone else would have done.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:50 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Argh I need you guys to all catch up so we can talk about it. squeeeeeeeeeeeee
I KNOW omg I am so excited about the "Rabbit in a Snowstorm" painting scene from this episode, and even though I loved it from the first time I watched it, now I can't say anything. :( Pester me on MeMail or something, fully spoiled people!!
posted by nicebookrack at 2:51 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I KNOW omg I am so excited about the "Rabbit in a Snowstorm" painting scene from this episode, and even though I loved it from the first time I watched it, now I can't say anything. :( Pester me on MeMail or something, fully spoiled people!!
posted by nicebookrack at 2:51 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
the OTHER costume Murdock wears - his Matt Murdock, Attorney at Law costume - is already fully realized. Those round, red glasses are the superhero logo of that costume.
As a weird unexpected bonus, this is one live-action superhero story in which it actually helps rather than hurts to hide the hero's eyes under a mask or behind glasses, so Matt can maintain an air of mysterious intelligence and menace. Because the badassery is completely undercut the second the glasses come off, revealing Matt's huge sad brown puppy-dog eyes. I can't find a non-spoilery picture, but: oh my god, SAD BLIND PUPPY EYES. They are worse than the golden-retriever eyes of Steve Rogers, which is not a phrase I ever thought I'd type.
posted by nicebookrack at 3:03 PM on April 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
As a weird unexpected bonus, this is one live-action superhero story in which it actually helps rather than hurts to hide the hero's eyes under a mask or behind glasses, so Matt can maintain an air of mysterious intelligence and menace. Because the badassery is completely undercut the second the glasses come off, revealing Matt's huge sad brown puppy-dog eyes. I can't find a non-spoilery picture, but: oh my god, SAD BLIND PUPPY EYES. They are worse than the golden-retriever eyes of Steve Rogers, which is not a phrase I ever thought I'd type.
posted by nicebookrack at 3:03 PM on April 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
All of my friends have torn through the season. I'm "savoring" and only on episode 6.
I'm so impressed by the classic comic book style pacing. Each episode tells a full story, and gives you the hooks to some others. Just really well done.
posted by DigDoug at 5:33 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm so impressed by the classic comic book style pacing. Each episode tells a full story, and gives you the hooks to some others. Just really well done.
posted by DigDoug at 5:33 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's quite a reminder of how poorly so many tv shows use their serial nature, isn't it? (Or a reminder of how much so many of them lean on syndication and the ability to watch stuff out of sequence)
posted by phearlez at 10:16 AM on April 15, 2015
posted by phearlez at 10:16 AM on April 15, 2015
I'm sad they killed off Assassin Joss Whedon. I was enjoying him.
posted by griphus at 1:28 PM on April 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:28 PM on April 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Like, what was to stop Healy giving a fake name and then fleeing the city. That's what everyone else would have done.
Except Matt would have known he was lying, right? That was the point of establishing some of Matt's abilities to "read" people in all the episodes to this point - he knew Karen was lying in episode 1, knew things about the thug in episode 2, and could read the jurors in 3. I mean, I agree with you, that's what he would have tried, but DD wouldn't have believed him. The writers were just saving some time in terms of another beat down.
But her hiding it entirely just doesn't seem to make sense. She seeks out the dead man's husband looking for an ally... but not her employers?
I think it came from two things: technically, she told Matt that she didn't keep the files - so to admit that now, which she would have to do, is hard for her (although I maybe she did come clean when she had to explain why she was back in the apartment to be saved by the guy in the mask?) Secondly, they've made a bit of a joke about the fact that Karen is always there; then she isn't, and instead of asking her about where she was, Matt tells her no more long lunches. I don't think he was being cruel, just preoccupied, but I think for Karen that alongside the "mysterious, sleazy employer" who knew everything about her, was reason enough to just keep her mouth shut around these two guys. But I wish she had gone to Foggy at least.
And we as an audience deserve better than for her and Matt to get smoopy with each other after seeing her great chemistry with Foggy.
Yes! It would be great to see the secondary male character get with the love interest; it would so neatly sidestep some of the tropes.
posted by nubs at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2015
Except Matt would have known he was lying, right? That was the point of establishing some of Matt's abilities to "read" people in all the episodes to this point - he knew Karen was lying in episode 1, knew things about the thug in episode 2, and could read the jurors in 3. I mean, I agree with you, that's what he would have tried, but DD wouldn't have believed him. The writers were just saving some time in terms of another beat down.
But her hiding it entirely just doesn't seem to make sense. She seeks out the dead man's husband looking for an ally... but not her employers?
I think it came from two things: technically, she told Matt that she didn't keep the files - so to admit that now, which she would have to do, is hard for her (although I maybe she did come clean when she had to explain why she was back in the apartment to be saved by the guy in the mask?) Secondly, they've made a bit of a joke about the fact that Karen is always there; then she isn't, and instead of asking her about where she was, Matt tells her no more long lunches. I don't think he was being cruel, just preoccupied, but I think for Karen that alongside the "mysterious, sleazy employer" who knew everything about her, was reason enough to just keep her mouth shut around these two guys. But I wish she had gone to Foggy at least.
And we as an audience deserve better than for her and Matt to get smoopy with each other after seeing her great chemistry with Foggy.
Yes! It would be great to see the secondary male character get with the love interest; it would so neatly sidestep some of the tropes.
posted by nubs at 8:27 AM on May 21, 2015
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posted by zinon at 12:58 PM on April 12, 2015 [4 favorites]