Gentleman Jack: Why've You Brought That
June 4, 2019 1:52 PM - Season 1, Episode 7 - Subscribe

Lister travels to London with her old flame Mariana Lawton, a trip that exposes crippling memories of their past relationship.
posted by kanata (12 comments total)
 
[taking this over cause oh yeah! hasn't seen it yet and I have feels]

Oh my, I was swooning over Lister this episode and related so much to her in that dress. Where you've dressed masculine so much and it's part of your whole butch being and then to have to get in a dress and it feels like drag. I have more thoughts on it but I'll let other people chime in so it's not just a thread of my screaming SQUEEEEEE! everytime Lister is on the screen.

One episode left.
posted by kanata at 1:57 PM on June 4 [3 favorites]


How long until Mr. Washington finds out that nobody on that farm can read?
posted by Mogur at 2:09 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]


I had that same thought Mogur!

I had a lot of feelings about this one too.
One thing I liked was the whole mirror witch thing. I wasn't expecting that. And I liked how after that she did one of her camera looks but they framed it so you could see she was actually looking at herself in the mirror which I liked because I had been thinking of those moments as her talking to herself via her diary. When I had a daily journal practice every day was a conversation between me, past me, and future me.

The first time I watched the episode I thought wow Mary is really being a bitch all of a sudden.
The second time I watched it I thought, actually she's acting out the kind of abusive love pattern that someone else taught her, where you don't know how else to prove your value to someone other than by trying to pull them down.
The third time I thought, oh, so you're willing to compromise for these rich fucks but not for me? You actually do have it in you to play by someone else's rules? But only if there's something in it for you I guess? Did it ever occur to you that if you had compromised back then just a little things could have been much different for us? At the very least you could have made my life a little easier, but I guess you don't get yourself bettered that way huh??? Do you realize you're my entire retirement plan and I just found out I have absolutely nothing in this world a few days ago? Including you, apparently?

And I mean that's not to say I don't get why Lister is pursuing upping her social status, both because she's an intellectual and because her social status is a business she's running and as long as it's successful she doesn't have to get tied to some guy (ie marrying a rich man to support her family). Her stakes are already very high. And Mary's are too, now.
posted by bleep at 2:42 PM on June 4


yeah this show has made me reflect on many lesbian moments in my life and many memories of relationships at the beginning of my identity and its feels like the writers have had those experiences too. lots of conflicting feels and lots of anger actually for how i was treated. lots of feelings of aloneness too as i real miss having a community just so we can discuss this over drinks for hours. i'll have to get back into tumblr if there are older people on it coz i don't know if young people define themselves as butch and femme anymore? i don't know any queer people where i live so no one to ask.

that ex man though. wants it all but not give up her comfort.
posted by kanata at 2:58 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]


none of lister's girlfriends expect her to have feelings and that's a butch's curse too as she hides how much it hurts to be rejected by the world and thus leads them to believe she doesn't want love which causes the whole mess of marianne expecting lister to just follow the plan so i get why she's hurting. but i want Lister to have the girlfriend she deserves.
posted by kanata at 3:06 PM on June 4 [2 favorites]


She didn't really show much consideration of Marianna seeing her future vanish.
posted by bleep at 3:58 PM on June 4


I initially wondered if the lie about the deed to Shibden was some sort of Irene Adler-style plot where that guy (or one of his relations/employees) would then steal it, but I guess that plot thread was just to remind us that that rich guy is a jerk before Lister actually used them as collateral? It seemed weirdly out of sequence, since it would've been accurate just a few days later.

Mariana's kind of a jerk, but I'll give her that at least she was direct about what she was willing to offer even though it wasn't what Anne Lister wanted. Not sure why she expected Anne to keep waiting for her forever, though; I had assumed they had a friends with benefits arrangement mostly because Anne hadn't found another girlfriend after Mariana (and subsequently Miss Walker) rejected her suit and Mariana liked the temporary attention. Anne's been pretty explicit about wanting a committed, full relationship.

Was it more acceptable to be a lesbian elsewhere in Europe at the time? I have no idea historically if she could have some wild romp in Paris (presumably still restrained by her Tory-ish sensibilities) or if the French were equally as disapproving.
posted by tautological at 1:29 PM on June 5


Since there’s no mod (bit unusual?) I’ll note myself that there’s been deletions and warn that other posters should avoid discussing aspects of Listers life not covered directly in the show. A show-only tag might be appropriate and I am considering doing a full season, “books included” thread after the finale. As I’m inadvertently spoiling people I’ll bow out till then.
posted by Iteki at 11:38 PM on June 7


Finally caught up with it. I did want to shake Mariana because basically she's expecting Anne to always be there for her as a backup option - Anne articulated it quite clearly, the life on hold thing. Until the nephew died, Mariana was quite comfortable with relying on him in her old age, and now suddenly all her rejections are supposed not to matter. It's an uncomfortable situation where Anne has moved on and is looking just for temporary companionship with an old flame, while Mariana's done a 180 for materialistic reasons. I was especially uncomfortable with the jealousy towards Vere, which felt like Mariana refusing permission for Anne to be friends with another married ex.

And speaking of M-named ladies, Marian's scenes were special - especially the private goodbye. I love how complicated the sibling relationship is, where they argue so much but do care about each other's well-being.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 8:46 AM on June 8 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile poor Marian lusts after the handsome new groom, alas. Sucked to be a woman with a working libido but zero prospects.
posted by emjaybee at 10:32 PM on June 8


A show-only tag might be appropriate and I am considering doing a full season, “books included” thread after the finale. As I’m inadvertently spoiling people I’ll bow out till then.

I just want to say - I haven't felt like any of the historical events mentioned in previous threads felt like spoilers. I mean, I'm normally pretty firmly anti-spoilers, but what with how so many shows keep defaulting to the 'bury your gays' trope, I'm glad that this show being based on actual people's lives means I can go to the wiki to find out whether I'm on the Titanic heading for an iceberg or not. But I'll plan on making both 'show only' & 'books included' threads for the finale tomorrow, if nobody else gets them up ahead of me.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:15 AM on June 9 [3 favorites]


Yeah I don't think just referring to the historical facts that the main character is most known for can be considered a spoiler. We don't know what's going to happen to the characters on this show before it happens so it's impossible to spoil it. If anything a show-only tag might be appropriate for just talking about what's happening to the characters and how the characters feel about stuff without having to worry about whether or not it's ascribing feelings to the real people, because it's just treating the show like any other show. So thoughts about fictional characters don't get confused with thoughts about real people who probably don't want the thoughts and feelings made up by a writer to be ascribed to them. But in the books thread then you can talk about the real people and even if you want to compare them to the fictional versions it'll be easier to track who is who.
posted by bleep at 9:01 PM on June 12


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