The Good Place: You’ve Changed, Man

January 9, 2020 6:19 PM - Season 4, Episode 10

The group works to negotiate an afterlife plan with Shawn and the judge.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero (60 comments total)

Shouldn't that be --
The group works to negotiate an afterlife plan with Shawn, The Judge, and Timothy Olyphant.

Was The Judge singing Minnie Riperton songs in Disco Janet's void, cause ... awwwwwww.
posted by pjsky at 6:31 PM on January 9, 2020 [12 favorites]

Timothy Olyphant as “Timothy Olyphant”
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 PM on January 9, 2020 [10 favorites]

Is it just me or did they come up with a proto-Buddhism? I super appreciate Disco Janet's marble, too.
posted by jeather at 7:08 PM on January 9, 2020 [12 favorites]

Because I love this show I'm not go to dwell too hard on the fact that their solution was to reinvent Buddhism, except only reference philosophers from the "Western" tradition to get there.

Since one of the main characters was a fake Buddhist monk, it's kind of a glaring omission but also I am totally here for totally confident but also still knows his own limitations Chidi: don't look at me, I'm just the ideas guy!
posted by absalom at 7:31 PM on January 9, 2020 [13 favorites]

Ring My Bell is Anita Ward, not Minnie Riperton. Having Maya Rudolph sing a song by her deceased mother might have been ... complicated.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:17 PM on January 9, 2020 [7 favorites]

wow two fanfare posts with Tim O in the cast back-to-back.

I can't wait to go home and watch this if only I deeply understand Judge Gen in this case.
posted by cendawanita at 11:57 PM on January 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

Loved that scene between Chidi and Eleanor. Saying "I love you" like it's the most natural thing in the world. I'm here for Confident Chidi.

Overall, pretty good episode with plenty of fun moments.
posted by KTamas at 2:30 AM on January 10, 2020 [5 favorites]

I feel like this season of the show in particular is being written for bingeing. The narrative flow on a seasonal basis is there but episodically feels... lacking. That is, each episode feels like an act in a larger story (with week(s)long commercial breaks) with very little arc on its own. Maybe just because it’s been so long since the last one.
posted by supercres at 5:49 AM on January 10, 2020 [6 favorites]

My heart broke when Shawn, holding a match, said he had JUST gotten all the puppies to climb into the cannon!
posted by ellieBOA at 6:38 AM on January 10, 2020 [11 favorites]

From the podcast: Olyphant brought Raylan’s actual hat with him.
posted by Etrigan at 6:43 AM on January 10, 2020 [20 favorites]

Mike Schur on making The Judge’s dreams come true with tonight’s surprise Good Place cameo [A.V. Club]
posted by ellieBOA at 6:47 AM on January 10, 2020 [10 favorites]

I am really loving this "all 800+ versions fully integrated and chill AF" version of Chidi. Since I identify with Chidi in a lot of ways (and spent this whole week in churning roiling stomach agony due to anxiety over work shit that ended up being perfectly fine), seeing him like this is really, REALLY pleasing.

Also I can't wait to show this episode to my bff, who is completely obsessed with Tim's Fine Olyphant.
posted by palomar at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2020 [8 favorites]

Confession: I was not familiar with Timothy Olyphant before this. It was still funny!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:13 AM on January 10, 2020 [9 favorites]

The background dumpster fire of awfulness inside Bad Janet was great:

• Pirates of the Caribbean 12 billboard
• Tesla Cybertruck Coming Soon billboard
• Chidi's reanimated bad pony drawing wandering around
• large jars of mayonnaise
• actual fire

posted by cardboard at 8:32 AM on January 10, 2020 [27 favorites]

> Confession: I was not familiar with Timothy Olyphant before this. It was still funny!

Olyphant's episode of the "Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend" podcast was hilarious and entertaining.
posted by Pronoiac at 9:06 AM on January 10, 2020 [1 favorite]

Enjoyed new Chidi, the casual I love you's, the disco, and of course, Timothy Olyphant.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:13 AM on January 10, 2020 [1 favorite]

Chidi's roller-smooch to Eleanor after she says this is about justice might have been my favorite moment of their relationship.

Mike Schur on making The Judge’s dreams come true with tonight’s surprise Good Place cameo [A.V. Club]


I love that the Judge is a stand-in for Mike Schur's love of Timothy Olyphant! And while TO was perfect for this cameo, I would have loved to see Kyle Chandler's version of this too. Gen's little pat of the sofa arm for TO to come sit by her? Maya Rudolph is perfect.

I'm mostly okay with the new system Team Cockroach proposed, but I was hoping that we'll eventually get to the role of the demons. I want the show to acknowledge that a system with torture in it will still be unjust and that being a torturer is bad for the demon too.
posted by gladly at 9:36 AM on January 10, 2020 [14 favorites]

..and we know demons can improve too. That's what I was thinking too.
posted by idb at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2020 [4 favorites]

And while TO was perfect for this cameo, I would have loved to see Kyle Chandler's version of this too.

Same, but I also would have DIED. Coach Taylor walking them through how the new afterlife works? With his hair? And the face? Whew.
posted by palomar at 9:49 AM on January 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

A while ago, we started a Justified rewatch in my fan journal, and every week I go to IMDB for the episode details--the show always had that stupid red downward trend arrow, and it was always like down 212 percent or something. After the Judge started talking about her Timothy Olyphant obsession (which I share), I noticed it had a green arrow and has been hovering at like up 200-318 percent, depending on how soon he's been mentioned. I'm gonna have to check it out now to see if it's changed.

I can't believe that was actually Raylan's hat--it looked like it was too big for him, like they found one that was just like it but a half size large. Especially since Raylan's famous line was that he "tried it on and it fit." I'm looking forward to listening to the podcast!

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Buddhism, so can't speak to the solution they came up with, but I do still find myself stuck on this afterlife where people get to earn a spot in the good place even if they've done unspeakable things, right alongside the people they've destroyed. I get hung up on this every time I think about it, even if it's just something personal and smaller, like the guy who assaulted me, rather than, like, perpetrators of mass genocide.

Anyways, I squealed when Tim showed up, died when Maya Rudolph patted the arm of the chair, and Mark Evan Jackson was fabulous as usual. So that's all good.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 11:51 AM on January 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

The bit where Jason juggled/almost dropped the earth-destroying button seemed kind of an odd thing. It just didn’t make sense as to why it happened, unless Jason did something at that moment that will get paid-off later? Take the batteries out?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:02 PM on January 10, 2020 [12 favorites]

Showbiz_Liz for the win! Predicting the show's eventual path 2 years ago.

I'll take the assist
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 12:10 PM on January 10, 2020 [8 favorites]

At some point they have to address just how pathetic the Good Place committee members are, right? Team Cockroach were better people living their original lives on earth than the committee members were just this episode.

Like, the conclusion has to be closing the Good Place also and all that exists is Eleanor's vision of the Medium Place, people trying to be better, forever.
posted by books for weapons at 12:11 PM on January 10, 2020 [5 favorites]

Of course Disco Janet has a disco ball marble.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:17 PM on January 10, 2020 [12 favorites]

At some point they have to address just how pathetic the Good Place committee members are, right?

Explicitly?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:22 PM on January 10, 2020 [8 favorites]

How did those people get their jobs?
Also, they just don't seem like people who were alive 500+ years ago. That always bugs me how CURRENT folks them them and Gen are.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:06 PM on January 10, 2020 [4 favorites]

I appreciated the overt Shawn-speaks-as-a-conservative-politican moments.

My favorite part was Bad Janet's void. And Bad Janet crying as she farted. Give D'Arcy the Emmy now for best dramatic fart moment in history.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:37 PM on January 10, 2020 [8 favorites]

From the AV Club interview with Mike Schur ellieBOA posted above:

The thing that made him so perfect for this was—I don’t know if you remember this, but Rob Lowe’s character had been on [the fictional legal show-within-the-show] The Grinder and Timothy Olyphant, playing himself, had basically replaced [Lowe’s character] and was on The Grinder: New Orleans. And then Timothy Olyphant came into the world of the show, insanely, and there was an episode where the two of them got into an argument about which one of them was closer to being a real lawyer. [Laughs.] And they had a mock trial in front of an actual judge, to determine which of them was closer to being a real lawyer. It was bananas, and it was so funny, and it was like meta on 24 different levels.

I confess, I've tried to talk at least one friend into watching all of The Grinder just so she could get to the Timothy Olyphant joke.

It was not successful.
posted by purpleclover at 8:44 PM on January 10, 2020 [2 favorites]

So, karma. They basically “invented” karma.

You keep a vague imprint of your previous actions == karma.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:34 PM on January 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

Also I was totally waiting for them to marbelize a Janet while the judge was in her void.

And Chidi in roller skates was a nice call back to his nihilism / absurdism which he had to embrace to get past his anxiety.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:38 PM on January 10, 2020 [4 favorites]

Ok ok last one

Sleeping with the judge = a Jacksonville plea bargain

Laughed so hard I cried
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:40 PM on January 10, 2020 [29 favorites]

The complete spinelessness of actual Good Place angels brings to mind Season 1 “Good Place” Michael, where his strategy for negotiating with Trevor is to utterly capitulate.
posted by Monochrome at 8:21 AM on January 11, 2020 [5 favorites]

At some point they have to address just how pathetic the Good Place committee members are, right?

Explicitly?

Yeah, I feel like “Shut up! Shut up! Hi. Shut up!” did that pretty well.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2020 [7 favorites]

I'm a little sad we have not seen Nicole Byer back this season.

Also, this season plays better as a binge so I'm looking forward to being able to binge the entire thing as a whole. (Due to my life I binged the first five or six earlier in the season.)

Chidi on roller skates was love.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:26 AM on January 11, 2020

I thought Jason with the remote was classic fumbling Florida Jason. It was so stupid it made me laugh.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:27 AM on January 11, 2020

The complete spinelessness of actual Good Place angels

I thought they were Accountants? Neutral parties?
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:56 AM on January 11, 2020

The representatives from the Good Place were not alive 500+ years ago, nor have they ever been alive. Like Michael and Shawn, they just are. They are not human.
posted by wabbittwax at 10:07 AM on January 11, 2020 [10 favorites]

I wonder if this isn’t the first time Team Cockroach has done this; they basically need to get to the point where their entry into TGP is a given. I suspect that they are, in fact, in the very afterlife they are currently designing - and once it’s realized, they’ll be in.
posted by hijinx at 12:39 PM on January 11, 2020 [12 favorites]

...which might be why Gen is Judge Gen?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:08 PM on January 11, 2020

Wow, yeah, it’s worth bearing in mind that time is canonically cyclical in the afterlife. Hmm.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:30 PM on January 11, 2020 [2 favorites]

But what's it all for, man? Once a soul achieves its highest state, what then? Education is touted as its own reward, and it is its own reward, but the more degrees you collect, the more you are (theoretically) empowered to do -- and the expectation is that education prepares you for the greater challenges of life outside academia. If the afterlife is a test, what are souls being prepared for?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:13 PM on January 11, 2020 [1 favorite]

I thought they were Accountants? Neutral parties?

When they’re introduced last season, the accountant just says “Go to the Good Place and take it up with The Committee.”
posted by Monochrome at 6:42 PM on January 11, 2020 [1 favorite]

The complete spinelessness of actual Good Place angels

I thought they were Accountants? Neutral parties?

Democratic party leadership.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:30 PM on January 11, 2020 [16 favorites]

Is there a reason that Team Cockroach isn’t telling Gen that if she ends humanity, she won’t be able to binge watch TV shows?
posted by sleeping bear at 7:31 PM on January 11, 2020 [5 favorites]

They did, they literally said that destroying the world would get rid of the show Justified and Timmy O.
posted by sideshow at 7:37 PM on January 11, 2020 [2 favorites]

Just wanna point to a previous comment of mind vis-a-vis Chidi's reaction to the time-knife and say BOO-YAH!
posted by Navelgazer at 8:18 PM on January 11, 2020 [8 favorites]

Ohhh knowing Mike Schur loves Tim Olyphant and is going to have a bit more free time after this show is already getting my hopes up way too much at possibilities, I really miss Santa Clarita Diet Olyphant and I'd love for him to do more comedy.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:24 PM on January 11, 2020 [11 favorites]

An outtake from the scene with the remote (link to tweet from Jameela Jamil)
posted by mikepop at 9:50 PM on January 11, 2020 [17 favorites]

Is it just me or did they come up with a proto-Buddhism?
I've been screaming this at the TV since season 1 and then when this happened I just nearly passed out.
posted by bleep at 12:20 AM on January 12, 2020 [2 favorites]

I hold out hope that "neo-Buddhism" is not the endgame. Let's not forget this show likes to toss plans overboard and start again... a lot. I don't think the final product is going to be what we just saw pitched.
posted by tzikeh at 11:31 AM on January 12, 2020 [3 favorites]

They do need another twist/reveal to fill those next episodes.

I’ve long thought they come up with purgatory/wheel of rebirth and I thought that would be the ending, but now we are here and there’s still a couple of episodes to go. Humanity is saved, they’ve come up with a fairer afterlife - where’s the tension that’s going to take us to another climax?

They certainly need to introduce new stakes, since nobody seems to consider eternal torture for team cockroach at this point. And they are already dead and Gen now seems to have abandoned the idea of resetting humanity. I mean, maybe that option will be back on the table, if the demons sabotage the new set-up or something, but I think there would be diminishing returns (since it’s already established that the demons really have nothing but eternal boredom to gain from vanquishing team cockroach for good).

Really, the only drama I can still think of at this point is seperating the team. But in a way we had that twist too already (Gen would have allowed Eleanor to go to the good plast after her first test, but Eleanor decided to stay with her mates - there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t all make that particular choice again if put in that situation. Unless this time they wouldn’t get to choose whether to move on or not. But what good place would it be, if you were forced to go there?)
posted by sohalt at 1:32 AM on January 13, 2020

Am going to rewatch and see if the question "How should we treat each other?" is addressed implicitly.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:57 AM on January 13, 2020

So was Chidi's horse-drawing-come-to-life in Bad Janet's void because she didn't have the heart to kill it?
posted by Etrigan at 7:53 AM on January 13, 2020 [8 favorites]

I really likwd how every Janet's search system reflected their personality. Bad Janet had a shitty Windows computer with 1000 pop-ups, Disco Janet had an 8-track. Oddly, I would assume Good Janet has a Janet.

The podcast was really good, we finally know the line that stopped production for an entire day.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:03 PM on January 13, 2020 [4 favorites]

The podcast was really good, we finally know the line that stopped production for an entire day.

Oh, tell! I'm intrigued.
posted by Mogur at 5:03 AM on January 14, 2020 [1 favorite]

It was the title of the episode: "Shawn, you used to be cool, but you've changed, man." (with varying numbers of A's in "maaaaan")
posted by Etrigan at 6:11 AM on January 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

Ah!
posted by Mogur at 6:46 AM on January 14, 2020 [1 favorite]

Small thing but I loved the delivery of "Hello, I'm confident now!" by Chidi.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:24 AM on January 14, 2020 [11 favorites]

Evidently Manny kept putting enough spin on it that it just BROKE the entire cast. I think the story that Michael Schur told is that he came into work and "they were an hour into shooting and already an hour behind schedule."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 2:31 PM on January 14, 2020 [6 favorites]

So was Chidi's horse-drawing-come-to-life in Bad Janet's void because she didn't have the heart to kill it?

Maybe... Or maybe she loves watching it writhe around begging for the sweet release of death
posted by ejs at 5:31 PM on January 14, 2020 [4 favorites]