The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power: Alloyed

October 14, 2022 2:39 AM - Season 1, Episode 8

The Stranger is confronted by those who seek him, while the Elves struggle to save themselves.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (81 comments total)

So I think I both loved this episode far more than others, and also feel like it could have really, really, really gone just a little bit further and forged something absolutely incredible.

The mental battle between Galadriel and Halbrand/Sauron was good, really good, and it was important to show her tempted, but I feel that they didn't quite lean in hard enough to what would have made a truly interesting conflict, despite kind of taking it almost close enough. You have Galadriel showing her darkness with Adar, you have Halbrand/Sauron genuinely caring for Galadriel...

I think far more interesting than the boring "I don't see the difference between ruling and saving" that got Galadriel breaking out of it, would have been a genuine conflict. Like - what if Halbrand/Sauron was making a genuine offer? I really wanted to see them go further into the idea that this is Halbrand/Sauron genuinely trying to do good, with a sincere desire to heal Middle-Earth from the harm that was done and the damage that he did in the past, and that Galadriel's inability to forgive, her own darkness, is what what ends up pushing Halbrand/Sauron back into the darkness - that this was his own tendrils of goodness reaching out and trying, and that Galadriel is the one who slams the door and inadvertently dooms Middle-Earth for the next thousand years.

Similarly, I think that they didn't want to pollute Galadriel the Good too much by having her cross over into overt romantic feelings for who would eventually turn out to be Sauron, but I feel like that would be a show that I would absolutely, fucking rivetingly, watch the fuck out of, the idea that this giant political battle is also a personal battle, between the people who thought they could heal each other and maybe could have and then turned back from the brink and are just going to smash and destroy until they become very different, and ultimately lesser and worse people.
posted by corb at 6:56 AM on October 14, 2022 [33 favorites]

Doubtless this has been discussed previously, but I’ve read The Hobbit and LOTR and want to read a finite amount of Tolkien’s writing that covers the TROP period (i.e., the Second Age). I certainly don’t want to read 15 more Tolkien books. I’m wondering if I should read The Silmarillion for background, then the forthcoming The Fall of Númenor?
posted by neuron at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2022

Omigod, they killed Lennrychaun!
posted by biffa at 12:42 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

Nevermind, he got better.
posted by biffa at 12:43 PM on October 14, 2022

"Galadriel wouldn't date me just because I killed her brother. Now I'm a giant flaming eye trying to destroy the world and it's kind of her fault." - Sauron, explaining how both sides are to blame in these divisive times.
posted by Gary at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2022 [30 favorites]

Wait again, its looking less hopeful.
posted by biffa at 12:49 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

"You're as wet as a river rock."

Who writes this shit?
posted by biffa at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

It seems odd that a tribe that sees leaving the tribe as a death sentence, which is what all the previous episode suggest, would be so chill about Nori going off.
posted by biffa at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

Well it's certainly an unusual choice to spell out what was going on in the last ten minutes of your season finale through a song over a rapidly moving set of credits.
posted by biffa at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

This is just a warning for people like me who read threads like this even though there are always spoilers:

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

I thought this episode was very good. If only because up until that point I thought that the Stranger being Gandalf and Halbrand being Sauron would be way too obvious, but somehow the episode surprised me and sold me on it anyway. I guess the Stranger could still be someone else... but he was being *very Gandalfy* once he got his voice. (I reserve the right to decide again later that shoving Gandalf into the second age is way too easy.)

A lot of solid elements were put in place, and a lot of creative decisions from earlier episodes that seemed weird, now seem like clever plotting. So good job show.
posted by Alex404 at 1:48 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

Berek the horse was robbed!

That being said, this was a satisfying conclusion, and does answer last weeks' question of "how can Halbrand survive a long ride on horseback while bleeding from a stomach wound?"

In retrospect, the scenes of "Halbrand" coaxing Celebrimbor down the correct path with just "wild guesses" and "innocent questions" is just chilling.
posted by Mogur at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2022 [13 favorites]

Oh man, my near-Colbert-level Tolkien nerd friends are gonna be so mad if the Stranger is Gandalf rather than a composite of the two Blue Istari, but the finale sets him up to be Gandalf so firmly that I think most viewers would be confused and disappointed if he's not.
posted by jedicus at 2:36 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

FIONA. APPLE.
posted by hototogisu at 3:43 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

Incredible start up vibe saying “what if we made… 3”
posted by andrewdoull at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2022 [11 favorites]

Who writes this shit?

“I’M GOOD!”
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:11 PM on October 14, 2022 [15 favorites]

[reposting a comment of mine from Reddit]

For everybody staking claims about whether or not the Stranger is Gandalf: We could get through five seasons, the "defeat" of Sauron, and some kind of tearful goodbye as the Stranger wanders into the distance or evaporates and goes back to Valinor (for a while), and STILL never know for sure if he's Gandalf. The name "Gandalf" (='wand elf') was given to him by Men in the North, presumably because he carried a staff and seemed too long-lived to be human. He may never be called that (or any of this other known names) for the whole run of the show, even if it is him.
posted by The Tensor at 5:39 PM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

Ah, so this is the shit that youngGaladriel had to go through, to become the catecblanshettGaladriel in the movies.

Suck it edgelord dark"academic" incel whiners.
posted by porpoise at 7:24 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

[reposting a comment of mine from .... a few episodes back

if you're genuinely interested in figuring out who Sauron is (whether we've even seen him yet -- I don't think we have*) it's going to be whoever ...

[SPOILER ALERT]

... assumes a fair appearance and befriends the Elven-smiths of Eregion, led by Celebrimbor, and counsels them in arts and magic.

I was obviously wrong about part of it, and yet ...
posted by philip-random at 7:57 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Just when I was loudly asking what IS the witch accent supposed to be, the weird cult members started talking about the ~lands of the East~. And then... everything got very cringe. They also heavily tipped that that was Gandalf/Olorin, and I'm disappointed by that. Saruman -- a little vulnerable and new -- would've been a more interesting character.

The "WE'RE MAKING RINGS" thing took so long lmao. I think this kind of reveal works best if you don't know it's coming, and they telegraphed it so much before they got there. Oh well, I did say this show thinks the audience is stupid. And I liked that Galadriel didn't actually tell anyone that Halbrand was Sauron, which I guess leaves the door open for him to sneak back in and work with Celebrimbor again.

I dunno, I'm still excited for next season, but the finale didn't really hit for me. It's funny because House of Dragons absolutely killed me with the time jumps, but I wouldn't have minded some in this show.

The music and visuals are still very nice!
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

emo sauron is worst sauron
posted by lalochezia at 8:42 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

but how could Sauron not be emo?
posted by philip-random at 9:08 PM on October 14, 2022 [5 favorites]

I wonder when a "witch king" will steal Durin's dad's spikey hat.
posted by porpoise at 9:44 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

Google News is now dead to me; it could not wait to spoil the Halbrand reveal. It was literally before 5 am yesterday that they plastered it into a headline at me. Algorithms are stupid.

I liked that Galadriel didn't actually tell anyone that Halbrand was Sauron

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why she didn't/hasn't.

I agree that Stranger-as-Saruman would be more interesting—and I'm convinced they wanted us to wonder about that, what with all the tree stuff. But I can't see this show revealing he's NOT Gandalf at this point.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:06 AM on October 15, 2022 [5 favorites]

I am upset that Disa wasn’t in this episode, so I will be talking to management.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on October 15, 2022 [6 favorites]

Having had time to sleep on it, I'm quite impressed by the whole I'm Halbrand/Sauron arc. I'm also pretty dumb at playing TV detective, so maybe other people found it fairly telegraphed. Still, I remember thinking of all the characters in the show, Halbrand's seemed the least consistent... but those inconsistencies end up being explained away quite neatly.

Even though I usually find villain stories kind of boring, I also think the way Adar has been setup to be very interesting... and Halbrand's reveal connects back to when he said to Adar, "Do you remember me?" Adar, of course, claimed to have killed Sauron at some point, but does not recognize this current incarnation. It does create quite a sympathetic arc for the orcs, because they have been made vile to the core, yet they still have souls, and at least someone is trying (in their own violent messed up way) to give them the home that every creature fundamentally deserves... but no, in the end Sauron is going to re-enslave the orcs and presumably kill Adar on the way.

The Gandalf reveal was thrilling and well done. But also dumb. Fine show, you can be dumb. I wish you wouldn't make the Stranger into Gandalf but I suppose someone somewhere decided it was necessary.

Also what can I say... I'm a simple man... someone having an internal moral conflict and then slamming down their staff and yelling "I'M GOOD!" I mean... yes... I suppose it's bad writing... but it gets me in the feels. Even though it's not morally sophisticated, I still much prefer a show like this where most people are striving to be good.
posted by Alex404 at 7:56 AM on October 15, 2022 [5 favorites]

I am 100% ok with it being Gandalf (if it is him), ‘cause Gandalf, lore be damned on this one. Am also ok if it isn’t G.

yelling "I'M GOOD!" I mean... yes... I suppose it's bad writing... but it gets me in the feels.

Fair point about there’s always people who enjoy story aspects that others don’t. Do carry on and I apologize if my criticism marred your enjoyment. Overall i’ve been loving the show!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:40 AM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]

There were flaws but damn, the feels overwhelmed those. Nori and Poppy saying goodbye, the Stranger finally speaking complete sentences and oh, killing those three assholes, Galadriel's interaction with Sauron, the forging on the rings, and damn, that song just KILLED me.
posted by Ber at 10:07 AM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]

Do carry on and I apologize if my criticism marred your enjoyment.

No worries! No enjoyments were marred by your comments. It was a silly line. But silly can be good.

The reason I'm resistant to having Gandalf in the story, is that it puts the show at risk of falling into the trap of many big franchises (e.g. Star Wars), where you have these richly realized worlds, but due to the nature of big budget story telling, only the same handful of people ever matter.

Anyway, we'll see how the show handles it. In spite of myself I was still grinning through that whole reveal.
posted by Alex404 at 10:37 AM on October 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

Well, after season 1 my opinion on this show: It looks very pretty. Bu then again it should with a budget the size of the GDP of a small country.

Shame the big budget couldn't get them the rights to The Silmarillion itself.
posted by Pendragon at 12:58 PM on October 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

I liked that Galadriel didn't actually tell anyone that Halbrand was Sauron

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why she didn't/hasn't.

At the beginning, Gil-Galad warned her that her obsession with hunting Sauron could be harmful ("the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause it to spread"), and then Halbrand thoroughly played her, then reminded her that her help was essential to his having gotten as far as he had. So she knows who he is, but she's ashamed and worried that if she reveals it, she'll be blamed, or worse, ignored. Because after all, what proof does she have?
posted by The Tensor at 3:23 PM on October 15, 2022 [11 favorites]

Loved it. When does S2 air? Soon, right?
posted by jquinby at 4:16 PM on October 15, 2022

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why she didn't/hasn't.

Not just her, but Elrond too and the Elves fade real soon, instead of thousands of years from now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:57 PM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]

One can hardly tell that these show runners have no real experience (writing or otherwise).

I have so many nits to pick, but here's just one: Compare the Sauron reveal in this episode to the classic in the genre, The Usual Suspects (decades old spoilers, obvsly). The "Verbal" Kint/Keyser Söze reveal worked because the audience could see, retrospectively, how every situation and every character was being manipulated by Verbal/Söze: from the police lineup, to the jewelry heists, to the boat assault, to the murder of (almost) every witness and accessory, to the police investigation. Söze was a monster, but not because he did evil crimes; he was a monster because he was able to manipulate people to work against their own best interests.

Meanwhile, Halbrand's character just seems to wander through the plot by accident, with no motivation or plan. This makes the Sauron reveal feel so empty and dumb. Yeah, as a Tolkien fan I could see how it adds up that we need a smooth-talker to befriend the craftelves of Eregion, but the writers made it happed because it had to happen. There was no ah-ha moment where all the little hints gelled into a coherent picture of Sauron's intoxicating powers of corruption. It was more like, "Oh, I guess that's how they're getting us from plot point A to B."

Seriously, think back to that (rather uninspired) fight scene where Halbrand kicked a bunch of Númenórean ass; what was the point of that scene? To show he was more than he appeared? That was already obvious from his dialog with Galadriel. But if you're setting him up as the ultimate baddie, why not set up the idea that he was subtly corrupting the political power of Númenor. The show made Galadriel the agent of change w/r/t the tension between the ailing King and the Queen-regent, Halbrand was all, "fuck me, leave me alone in my prison cell. I just want to drink toilet hooch and make swords." There's no conceivable argument that Halbrand was pulling the strings in Númenor, because the writers fucked us. Either through laziness or lack of talent, multiple times, the Halbrand/Sauron reveal failed the Cockadoodie Car test.
posted by peeedro at 5:31 PM on October 15, 2022 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile, Halbrand's character just seems to wander through the plot by accident, with no motivation or plan.

What show are you watching? Halbrand manipulated everyone into getting declared King of the Southlands while simultaneously worming his way into the workshop of the greatest Elven smith outside of Valinor. And SERIOUSLY tempted Galadriel along the way with EXACTLY what (as we know from FotR) she secretly wants.

His "reluctantly failing upwards" character arc is one of the REASONS many of us figured out he was Sauron. It wasn't bad writing, it was a HUGE HINT in plain sight.
posted by The Tensor at 5:40 PM on October 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

His "reluctantly failing upwards" character arc is one of the REASONS many of us figured out he was Sauron.

Sure, but remind me, what was the character-driven reason he was on a boat to rescue Galadriel in the ocean, other than the plot demanded it? Because from the very beginning, his character arc wasn't motivated by anything other than what was convenient to lazy writers.
posted by peeedro at 5:55 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]

what was the character-driven reason he was on a boat to rescue Galadriel in the ocean

We don't know yet, but it sure looks intentional in hindsight, doesn't it...

lazy writers

Are you just going to keep repeating it in the hope that it will become true? The stuff you thought was "lazy" has turned out to be subtle and building up to the Big Reveal.
posted by The Tensor at 6:15 PM on October 15, 2022

Fair enough, but at what point do the writers clue us in that Halbrand intended to rule Middle Earth. There were many hints that he was more than he seemed, but there no hints that he had ambitions beyond what was thought to be possible to anybody around him. "Subtle" doesn't count when a character goes from, "I'm happy to rot in jail over a disagreement over union dues," to, "I desire to control Middle Earth." The Halbrand heel-turn made no sense and came from nowhere in an hours long epic.
posted by peeedro at 6:34 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm guessing he had to wait until the rings were being made before he played his hand. Makes sense to me.
posted by philip-random at 6:40 PM on October 15, 2022

at what point do the writers clue us in that Halbrand intended to rule Middle Earth.

Um, at the end when they revealed he was secretly Sauron the Dark Lord the whole time? It's sort of a surprise, you see.

there no hints that he had ambitions beyond what was thought to be possible to anybody around him.

"Oh, no, not King! I'm so reluctant! Anything but that!"
posted by The Tensor at 6:46 PM on October 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

Are you just going to keep repeating it in the hope that it will become true? The stuff you thought was "lazy" has turned out to be subtle and building up to the Big Reveal.

I’m on team ‘bad writers’, most people who work on those things aren’t lazy, it’s super demanding. But they just weren’t that good, Halbrand was advancing toward Eregion by pure plot convenience, not by being subtle. And then suddenly he started doing things, but his actions with Celebrimbor were as subtle as a garbage truck.

They also tried to trick us into believing Gandalf is Sauron, but I had to internally call bullshit on it since I don’t trust those writers and also you don’t open the final episode with this if it’s true, plus the fact there would have been no point in involving Harfoots, so that immediately confirms Halbrand as Sauron, and that seems to be the worst reveal you can write.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:46 PM on October 15, 2022 [5 favorites]

There were many hints that he was more than he seemed, but there no hints that he had ambitions beyond what was thought to be possible to anybody around him.

When he so desperately wanted to join the builders guild in Numener, despite supposedly being a king, alarm bells went off in my head.

He clearly had a master plan and works with what he has to make it happen. He’s been like that from the beginning ie saving himself from the sea monster, especially when there’s an elf in the water to save and ally with.

I have issues with some of the writing, but Halbrande as Sauron in retrospect works, while Sauron is the stranger never quite did.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:00 PM on October 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

When he so desperately wanted to join the builders guild in Numener, despite supposedly being a king, alarm bells went off in my head.

Cool, cool, cool. Congrats, your head alarm bells are on point. But for the rest of us dummies, maybe fill us in on how those scenes were meaningful to the rest of our interpretation? How did a Númenor labor dispute bend the future of Middle Earth?

He’s been like that from the beginning ie saving himself from the sea monster, especially when there’s an elf in the water to save and ally with.

One of the basic good vs evil rules of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings is that good respects good and evil acknowledged evil. The entire Bilbo/Smaug conversation was an exercise in figuring out who was the baddie: thief vs hoarder.
posted by peeedro at 7:41 PM on October 15, 2022

How did a Númenor labor dispute bend the future of Middle Earth?

What labor dispute?

To me it was odd that a supposed king wanted so badly to be a builder and seemingly knew the craft and knew it well. Those two things didn’t add up for me.

Later on, the street fight was odd because he sorta begged not to be pushed, implying there was a dark side to himself. He then beat their asses, and his movements seemed odd. Nothing major, but didn’t add up.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:55 PM on October 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

I’m trying to like this but it’s difficult. I'll list what I like and not comment on what I don’t.
- Halbrand/Sauron’s inveigling of Galadriel, getting into her mind and tempting her with power. It was hard for her to resist, but finally she does. That meshes well with the book and the PJ movie.
- The visuals. Moria in particular is beautiful. Númenor not bad.
- Morfydd Clark’s acting. A younger more hasty Galadriel (if that means anything when you are thousands of years old). But still wise and determined.
- Charlie Vickers’ acting as Halbrand. He did a good job transitioning from reluctant heroic to smarmy fedora guy when trying to reel in Galadriel.
- Owain Arthur as Prince Durin IV. That’s exactly how I expect a dwarf prince to be. Dour and suspicious but fiercely loyal.
- Sophia Nomvete as Princess Disa. No beard but who cares? Boy can she resonate.
- Ismael Cruz Córdova as Arondir. Strong, gentle, and slightly bewildered.
posted by mono blanco at 8:12 PM on October 15, 2022

How did a Númenor labor dispute bend the future of Middle Earth?

So, there's really two ways to go with that. First, to consider Morgoth/Sauron as part of the overlays of Tolkien - as fallen angels, who had within them the power to be good but who chose to do wrong. Morgoth and Sauron were both of the Ainur before their fall, after all. If so, then Halbrand/Sauron may sincerely be trying to return to building, which is clearly his kind of key identity both as Sauron or Halbrand. This is the interpretation I like best, because I'm deeply interested in the idea that rather than Evil always being destined to be Evil, that good and evil are a choice that we must make every day, continuously, over a long time, and that people aid or hamper us in these choices. I think this is also a choice that Tolkien enjoyed playing with too - what can make good people fall or rise? So I like the idea that Halbrand is trying to see if he can be good, to work in simple ways and simple things just to see if he can. I like the idea that he is caught by Galadriel against his wishes.

Some Silmarillion details that can be used towards this theory

Sauron was originally Mairon, a Maia of making, crafting, and planning and coordination. And in the Silmarillion, Sauron did repent after the defeat of Morgoth, but when the Valar called him back home to account for his deeds, he was afraid and ran. This can kind of weave beautifully into the Halbrand/Sauron story - he wanted to create, he wants to fix things, but he can't see another path to fixing things rather than putting them in perfect order by ruling. But also, he still demonstrates that trait of running when called to account - Halbrand/Sauron leaves Galadriel behind and runs, even though he wanted her for his queen, rather than have to face her justified anger and account for his deeds.

Alternately..

Book spoilers

The labor dispute will, if it is doing what I think it is doing, bend the future of Middle Earth by establishing Halbrand/Sauron with the builders to some extent as someone who is dangerous, but ultimately, somewhat hapless - dangerous, but his danger is limited in a way that people can understand. The builders appear to be the base of Pharazon's support, and so anything that gets to the builders will get to Pharazon - this may be important later, particularly as Miriel returns blinded...

Another possibility on the why-is-Halbrand/Sauron-on-the-raft, though I don't necessarily adhere to this theory, is that he has become fascinated by Galadriel over her long pursuit of him. Galadriel is supposed to be one of the most beautiful of the elves - you have Feanor begging for three strands of her hair, and being so obsessed with it that it gave him the idea for the Silmarils. And she's also fierce and righteous for her cause - something that someone with a similar burning force of self-certainty could well be attracted to.
posted by corb at 9:06 PM on October 15, 2022 [12 favorites]

METAFILTER: How did a Númenor labor dispute bend the future of Middle Earth?




seriously
posted by philip-random at 9:18 PM on October 15, 2022 [8 favorites]

I think if you come to the show without any background whatsoever, it'd be pretty difficult to guess that Halbrand would be Sauron. But if you know the bare facts that Sauron is the demigod of fascists who really wants to get his forge on, there were a lot of hints through the series:

- He really wanted to stay in Numenor and forge (some rings). In retrospect that would have saved him a lot of effort.
- His whole conversation with Adar (as I mentioned above) was pretty damn direct in making that connection if you were paying attention. It's probably one of the few scenes that could tip someone off who had no prior experience with LotR.
- The almost comical extent to which people find him kingly. I found this fairly off putting to be honest, and I interpreted it as misguided alignment on the writers part with "divine right of kings" nonsense. It's much more palatable when you assume he was subtly jedi-mindtricking everyone around him.
- There was also a lot of right-place-right-time type of stuff. Like, him stumbling upon on Gadriel (he could have been looking for her directly but he was probably just trying to get to Numenor). The way the principle characters lost track of the Mordor activation hilt (he could have easily added misdirection there). Also the, "oh I'm so injured, ye must taketh me to the elveses... sure I can ride for 6 days striaght." All of this was kind of off, but to me anyway, makes a lot of sense in retrospect as the deliberate machinations of a demi god.

And I'm saying this as someone who didn't figure it out (though I am dumb). Up until the reveal, I had the occasional suspicion, but I wrote them off because I bought into the story that they were setting him up to be the king of the southlands in exile. I did have the satisfying feeling though, that as soon as they revealed he was Sauron, of being like, "oh damnit of course."
posted by Alex404 at 2:41 AM on October 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

Well this scene from e06 hits a little different now.....
posted by lalochezia at 5:08 AM on October 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

I think I noticed at the time, but didn't mention it. Galadriel's choice of words is quite poor in that scene in e6, "Put it down.", kind of like mafia bosses need to be careful telling their staff to "Take someone out."
posted by biffa at 6:11 AM on October 16, 2022

Rings of Power Episode 8 Explained
posted by philip-random at 10:11 AM on October 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

neuron:
>I certainly don’t want to read 15 more Tolkien books

Just read the Appendices at the end of Return Of The King. That, and whatever is mentioned in LOTR, is what the series is based on, and frankly there's a lot of stuff the writers are adding in because they can't use the Silmarillion or any other of Tolkien's writings.
posted by lhauser at 12:15 PM on October 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

Man, I am glad there are people who are enjoying this, because from my angle it is an extremely pretty high-budget trainwreck. There's way too much chesspiece-moving and not enough character development to suit me. Halbrand would have been a much more interesting character if he'd appeared to have anything like motivations for most of the season, and then reversing the meaning of those motivations would have landed.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:13 PM on October 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

I am curious how season 2 will go if they don’t do mysteries.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:44 PM on October 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

interview with the showrunners (SLNYT)
posted by lalochezia at 4:25 PM on October 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I am curious how season 2 will go if they don’t do mysteries.

The Stranger + Nori = True Detective season 5?
"One flat circle to rule them all."
posted by neuron at 5:23 PM on October 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

I would like to see, say, Season 2 be about the dwarven rings, and season 3 be about the human's rings.
posted by JohnFromGR at 5:32 PM on October 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

"Oh, no, not King! I'm so reluctant! Anything but that!"

The weird part was the brief scene at the end of episode 5, around 1:02:00. He's intensely staring at his Royal Pouch Thing. Random guard shows up: the Queen wants you! He stands up and walks toward the guard, dropping the pouch on the table. The camera zooms in to the pouch. Halbrand comes back and grabs it.

What audience was that performance for? Random Numenorean guard #5? If not a performance, what second thoughts was SAURON having about his fake royal lineage in that moment? It's weird!
posted by BungaDunga at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2022 [10 favorites]

I assumed the Stranger was Gandalf from the beginning. Not because of anything in particular on-screen, I just felt certain that the lure of "the prequel adventures of Gandalf and his halflings" was a temptation that these writers could not resist.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

If not a performance, what second thoughts was SAURON having about his fake royal lineage in that moment?

He could stay where he was and attempt to start making things. Or heading to the Southlands and influencing things there might be better.

He chose the latter, at the last minute, and helped get the forge started and increased his bond with Galadriel.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

I just felt certain that the lure of "the prequel adventures of Gandalf and his halflings" was a temptation that these writers could not resist.

I assumed the same.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:06 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

There's a takedown in the guardian which I don't like, so I'm not posting. But the top comment is great


"Stupid fat amazonses, spoiling nice precious."
posted by lalochezia at 6:22 AM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

There's a takedown in the guardian which I don't like, so I'm not posting.

It's not a good review, pretty superficial, even though I agree with some of their points.

I think what really hurt this show was the "mystery box" aspect. After a while, as with so many mystery box shows, my patience wore thin, and I was less likely to forgive plot holes and inconsistencies.

I kinda wish they had gone a different route, like say the Hitchcockian story trope where the audience is made privy to some crucial information (there's a bomb under the table!) that the characters in the story are not, and it's fascinating to watch them figure out the situation.

As corb mentioned above in this thread, this show could have focused on how Galadriel grapples with her own flirtations with Halbrand, and how she is having to make hard choices despite herself, reminding us how sometimes any of us could be drawn into toxic relationships. All the mystery box stuff could have been replaced with actual character development.

And I would have made her thousands of years old, not a petulant twenty-something; someone who should know better, has all the wisdom necessary to negotiate situations like that, but still gets drawn in, because evil is not easy to deal with and can come at you sideways.

Similar treatment could be given to Celeborn, Elendil, and Nori, etc.
posted by ishmael at 7:44 AM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]

Initially, since it's such an expensive show, I was wondering if it was the money people interfering with "production notes" that the showrunners had to work around, creating plot holes and inconsistencies in the process. They are new showrunners after all, maybe that would make them more amenable to suggestions from above.

After having heard the showrunners in interviews, I don't think that's the case.

They really do love the source material, and can quote passages of Tolkien like scripture, but judging from what they have said in interviews, their method of working seems to involve creating a set-piece and working backwards from that point to figure out the rest of the story.

Like for example, apparently the reason that Halbrand was on the raft was because the showrunners wanted to reference "The Raft of the Medusa" by Gericault. They said that they are going to explain why he was on the raft in season two, but I'm expecting it to be pretty superficial reasoning.
posted by ishmael at 8:02 AM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

my overall take on season one is pretty much consistent with how I felt after watching episode one. I liked it. But I didn't LOVE it.

I gotta say, I was pleasantly surprised by this billion dollar expenditure on non-weapons.

Beautiful to look at. Not particularly stupid narratively. Definitely good enough to get me to episode two, which doesn't happen that often for me anymore. Definitely better than the final season or two of Game Of Thrones.

[...]

In a weird way, I liken it all to Star Trek - The Next Generation. A show I always liked but could never really LOVE. It was always a little too uptight, too flat, too sober, too Protestant (as a friend used to put it). Nevertheless, I found it very watchable and kept coming back, which is what TV's really all about. Isn't it?

To which I'd add -- I'm already looking forward to Season Two of Rings Of Power. As big wide mystical magical adventure yarns go, I've encountered far, far worse. And I ain't gonna lie -- I was always going to find it hard to NOT get behind something that so enraged all those virulently anti-woke loogans out there.
posted by philip-random at 8:09 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

Here's a left-field theory, the Stranger is Gandalf. But. Also, he is one of the Blue Wizards. It's just that the story has been changed in the retelling over time, and he had different names when he was in Rhûn.

Also, he is training Nori in wizardry just by her being around him, organically, and she becomes the other "Blue Wizard".

Not really though, because she is not a Maia, but that gets lost in the retelling, and to people there witnessing her magic she's just as much of a wizard as Gandalf.

Probably not gonna happen, but it would be a fun story if they did.
posted by ishmael at 8:10 AM on October 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

I'm on the fence on whether the reveal was written well or not, but I went back and checked last episode, when Halbrand rides off with Galadriel, who gives Theo her sword, there's a shot of Halbrand giving Theo a haughty look. I thought it was a little odd at the time, but now the reveal explains it.

Also I'm unclear if the sword was an elven sword being Galadriel's own armament from Valinor, but if it was then maybe also cover why the elvens smiths chose to melt her dagger instead.
posted by polymodus at 12:31 AM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I thought Theo might end up being Sauron, but then I remembered that he ends up working in the pit of despair.
posted by snofoam at 9:50 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

I’m a little late to watching the episode. I guess I feel a little bit vaguely disappointed in the way Halbrand/Sauron’s story wrapped up. I can’t really put my finger on it. Overall I liked the series, though.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:43 PM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

There are a couple of modern trends in TV shows (especially genre ones) that The Rings of Power followed as well, not to its benefit in my opinion:

- Mystery Box, as already mentioned. I love mystery boxes! Season 1 of Westworld was amazing! But not every show has to have big secrets hiding in plain sight to be revealed in the season finale.

- Season 1 as prologue. I’m not sure when this started, but recently it’s been popular to write the whole first season as a big setting-up after which the real fun can actually begin. The Witcher did this, Picard did to a degree, Perry Mason did, and this show was another perfect example. The Stranger’s plot can finally start, we finally know who Sauron is, etc. Compare to Game of Thrones, say, where we got enough set-up as we needed as it went along, but we were totally in the real story from the start. House of the Dragon has been suffering from this a little too, although things have been picking up lately.

I’ve been enjoying it fine but I think both of the above aspects really slowed its narrative momentum.
posted by dfan at 8:08 PM on October 18, 2022 [4 favorites]

"I'm Neutral Good!"
posted by Gary at 3:18 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]

Just going to note that if putting mirthril in a circle amplifies it's power, Bilbo Baggins should've been freaking Eru Ilúvatar the moment he got a mail shirt made out of mirthril. Y'know, a thing with hundreds of little mirthril rings in it.
posted by damayanti at 6:07 PM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]

Mithril. Mirthril is the comedy version.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:00 AM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]

Suffering from volcanic ash-induced depression? Ask your herbalist about MIRTHRIL from Celebrimbor.

Do not take if allergic to MIRTHRIL. May cause ring-binding. If your ears become pointed while taking MIRTHRIL, stop taking immediately and consult with a wizard.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:18 AM on October 29, 2022 [7 favorites]

I waited to watch this on a bigger screen, thinking that at least amplifying the prettiness would help, and... it exceeded my expectations. Of course that was a mix of The Hobbit trilogy and the last seasons of Game of Thrones i.e. the most recent fantasy fanfic we had seen.

I liked that the show had an aesthetic identity of its own, it seemed to understand some of Tolkien's ideas better than PJ and had some pretty watchable characters. It wasn't all perfect, but the sixth episode pushed the show from good to great for me and I'm ready for seasons 2-5.

I was thoroughly thrown off by the timeline and the existence of a Valandil who is the same age as Isildur, though.
posted by ersatz at 9:56 AM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

a Valandil who is the same age as Isildur

My guess is that Isildur's future kid Valandil is going to be named after his BFF Valandil.

outlook for BFF Valandil: grim
posted by Spinneret at 8:50 AM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

As a Jackson movie LOTR fan, and not at all a Tolkien purist (or even reader for that matter, sorry!), I liked but didn't love this. I doubt I would have persisted with it if it didn't have characters I knew from the movies. I particularly enjoyed seeing a young(er) Elrond. Like others, I felt like it was very "connect the dots" plotting and writing with some really stunning sets/scenery.

Didn't pick (though it makes sense in retrospect) the Sauron reveal. I am very bad at seeing foreshadowing and I didn't even think to look for Sauron tbh since by around ep 4 or 5 I figured that this entire season was exposition for the series as a whole. I liked the show a whole lot better viewed like that, and then it was a genuine pleasant surprise that rings were actually forged!

But speaking of which, this part really annoyed me:

Elf High King: contemplates tiny bit of mithril
Celebrimbor: let's make something circular, like a crown!

Like seriously, I don't know how Elven minds work but please don't pretend to your audience, of a show called The Rings of Power, that that mithril is becoming anything other than a ring or rings, even if it is going to be bulked out with other precious metals. Actually I'm no master forger but that bit of mithril looked big enough for 3 rings without adding anything else...
posted by pianissimo at 1:37 AM on November 6, 2022

It could have been a bracelet, or a pair of kitschy hoop earrings -- the possibilities are endless!
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

One monocle to rule them all!
posted by pianissimo at 6:02 PM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]

I swear they were just trolling with that scene

"It needs to be circular."
"A crown?"
"No, smaller than that."
"A corset eyelet?"
"No, bigger."
"Hang on, the phone is circular-metal-banding"
posted by Mogur at 3:00 AM on November 8, 2022 [4 favorites]

Pretty late to the party here. My family watched the first 4 episodes around when they came out but then my spouse got busy with work and there was no time for all of us to watch it together and we kind of forgot about the whole thing. This weekend was the end of their winter holidays and they were looking for a movie to watch and we remembered that we hadn't finished watching Rings of Power. We started after supper on Saturday and were sucked in. We saw episodes 5 and 6 and wanted to watch 7 but that would have taken us to midnight and the kids especially had to get ready for waking up in time for school. We scheduled things so that we could watch 7 and 8 last night and after it was over I had to break the bad news to my kids that it would probably be another year until we get season 2.

Halbrand had seemed a bit suspicious for the last couple of episodes but I had figured that his secret was that he wasn't a lord but just a "regular" person that got the pouch somehow and everyone would just go with it because they all need a king and that it would be a moment to show that this is how those fancy lineages really made it through the years. Actually I was pretty annoyed when after keeping her people together through the orc attacks and defection of half of the village Bronwyn was so happy to leave everything up to this supposed king that had appeared out of nowhere. But I can't really expect anything different if I'm watching something based on Tolkien can I?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:34 PM on January 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

“A Long-expected Review: The Rings of Power Season 1”—Nerd of the Rings, 18 January 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 11:22 AM on January 27, 2023