Slow Horses: Returns
September 25, 2024 7:36 AM - Season 4, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Taverner is desperate to hide dangerous secrets. River seeks answers at his grandfather's house.
His little head poking out the attic š
posted by ellieBOA at 8:40 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 8:40 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]
So, I guess the 'Bad' in 'Bad Sam' stood for bad at his job, considering how foolish he was to present his head as an easy target for his assassin instead of finding a corner and being ready to shoot.
Usually, characters being stooges makes sense for the characters here, but Sam had been presented as a competent agent heretofore and that was just breaking the fiction stupid.
posted by ursus_comiter at 11:20 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]
Usually, characters being stooges makes sense for the characters here, but Sam had been presented as a competent agent heretofore and that was just breaking the fiction stupid.
posted by ursus_comiter at 11:20 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]
When he jumped down I was just like āoh my god River what is wrong with you?ā š± That bad guy talking himself out of being carved up like a Christmas goose was pretty astounding even if I wouldnāt mind him getting it. His accent feels a bit questionable but I havenāt looked the actor up.
Sometimes itās difficult to watch Oldman in this because heās just so greasy and repulsive. I mean heās the best character but lordy, with all the comments about him, itās just squirm inducing at times. Same for David, for different reasonsāI think anyone whoās had a parent or grandparent like that feels it right in the gut when heās whining intractably about going to First Desk. Thatās really intense.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 11:24 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
Sometimes itās difficult to watch Oldman in this because heās just so greasy and repulsive. I mean heās the best character but lordy, with all the comments about him, itās just squirm inducing at times. Same for David, for different reasonsāI think anyone whoās had a parent or grandparent like that feels it right in the gut when heās whining intractably about going to First Desk. Thatās really intense.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 11:24 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
> His accent feels a bit questionable but I havenāt looked the actor up.
That's Hugo Weaving, who you might remember from the Matrix as the main bad Agent guy. He has a strange accent, being born in Nigeria to English parents and raised in Australia.
posted by dis_integration at 11:44 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]
That's Hugo Weaving, who you might remember from the Matrix as the main bad Agent guy. He has a strange accent, being born in Nigeria to English parents and raised in Australia.
posted by dis_integration at 11:44 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]
Sure, but *before* that he was Mitzi Del Bra in The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994)
posted by Molesome at 12:12 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 12:12 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]
Oh Jesus, itās Hugo??? I totally didnāt recognize him at all and I canāt believe Iām saying that since I used to love him back in the day. And usually his American accents are spot on. Hmmm, I wonder if this is just my chemo brain. Iām usually the person going āoh that guy was in that movie, he was third from the left at the bus stop in that one tiny scene.ā My god, Iām really not processing things well these days.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 4:23 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]
posted by kitten kaboodle at 4:23 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]
kitten kaboodle, I have brain fog and rely on the Vulture recaps!
posted by ellieBOA at 4:48 PM on September 25
posted by ellieBOA at 4:48 PM on September 25
Kitten kaboodle: I also didnāt recognize him at all! I saw your comment and had to look up the cast to realize that he was there.
posted by dhruva at 4:57 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
posted by dhruva at 4:57 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
Dang this show just drops Hugo Weaving in here all slick, and then threatens to get him chopped up. The man hopefully has plot armor!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:40 PM on September 25
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:40 PM on September 25
Iām really not processing things well these days.
I was a big fan of him back in Priscilla/Matrix days and I didn't spot him either. Looked him up specifically because I was like "He's got a great voice, but I can't place that accent..."
It was so interesting that this show seems to be taking turns with the cast. So like last episode was more a Standish and Louisa & the other goofs from Slough House, this one was more MI5/Dogs/Harkness.
Sam had been presented as a competent agent
I think maybe we're supposed to see him as having been hitting the sauce a bit (he had a drink or two with Lamb and then we see him pouring himself one in his bolthole). I did like the little pigeon callback to the opening scene of today's show.
Can someone talk me through the bit where River opens a box of memories, sees something that was also on the wall of Les Arbres and has a revelation? I felt I wasn't following that little bit. Maybe it was his mom who was the woman who was the one who got rescued from there? I forget what we know about his parents.
posted by jessamyn at 7:48 PM on September 25
I was a big fan of him back in Priscilla/Matrix days and I didn't spot him either. Looked him up specifically because I was like "He's got a great voice, but I can't place that accent..."
It was so interesting that this show seems to be taking turns with the cast. So like last episode was more a Standish and Louisa & the other goofs from Slough House, this one was more MI5/Dogs/Harkness.
Sam had been presented as a competent agent
I think maybe we're supposed to see him as having been hitting the sauce a bit (he had a drink or two with Lamb and then we see him pouring himself one in his bolthole). I did like the little pigeon callback to the opening scene of today's show.
Can someone talk me through the bit where River opens a box of memories, sees something that was also on the wall of Les Arbres and has a revelation? I felt I wasn't following that little bit. Maybe it was his mom who was the woman who was the one who got rescued from there? I forget what we know about his parents.
posted by jessamyn at 7:48 PM on September 25
Can someone talk me through the bit where River opens a box of memories, sees something that was also on the wall of Les Arbres and has a revelation?
He was comparing the art on the wall, painted by $UNIDENTIFIED-GESTATIONUNIT, with art created by his mother. They are both suspiciously similar, implying that his mother was one of the breeders*.. and in turn implying that Hugo is River's daddy.
* Specifically, the one 'rescued' by Bad Sam who then gave him the slip at a gas station
posted by coriolisdave at 8:15 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]
He was comparing the art on the wall, painted by $UNIDENTIFIED-GESTATIONUNIT, with art created by his mother. They are both suspiciously similar, implying that his mother was one of the breeders*.. and in turn implying that Hugo is River's daddy.
* Specifically, the one 'rescued' by Bad Sam who then gave him the slip at a gas station
posted by coriolisdave at 8:15 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]
The rescued woman being river's mother would also explain why grandpa would conduct an off books operation that provided the terrorist group with money, guns, and lawyers identities. It also explains why the group had a near copy of river to act as an assassin - they were (half) brothers.
posted by autopilot at 11:12 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 11:12 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]
Christmas dinner at the Cartwright's this year is going to be super awks
posted by Molesome at 11:17 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 11:17 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]
autopilot: "It also explains why the group had a near copy of river to act as an assassin - they were (half) brothers."
If this turns out to be true, then David has shot and killed a different grandson of his instead of River ā so it's a mercy that he's probably too far gone to understand that or to have anyone try to explain it to him.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:20 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
If this turns out to be true, then David has shot and killed a different grandson of his instead of River ā so it's a mercy that he's probably too far gone to understand that or to have anyone try to explain it to him.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:20 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
so it's a mercy that he's probably too far gone to understand that
I have a suspicion that he might realise already. His distress in episode (2?) after being re-told that River was ok could absolutely be confusion, or it could be that realisation hitting.
posted by coriolisdave at 11:22 PM on September 25
I have a suspicion that he might realise already. His distress in episode (2?) after being re-told that River was ok could absolutely be confusion, or it could be that realisation hitting.
posted by coriolisdave at 11:22 PM on September 25
But it's River's mother who would be David's daughter right? Whereas River's half-brother only shares his dad, so is not related to River's grandfather at all.
posted by atlantica at 1:10 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
posted by atlantica at 1:10 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
I think the assassin was a half brother since we met the assassin's mother Natasha in the previous episode. Although if Harkness is River's father, that would imply that River's mom was pregnant when she was rescued by Bag Man Sam, and eventually made her way back to her father's place to make the matching drawings that River stored in the cabinet.
(bcwinters picked up on these details in last week's fanfare as well; it took me until midway through this one to piece it together)
posted by autopilot at 4:17 AM on September 26
(bcwinters picked up on these details in last week's fanfare as well; it took me until midway through this one to piece it together)
posted by autopilot at 4:17 AM on September 26
But it's River's mother who would be David's daughter right? Whereas River's half-brother only shares his dad, so is not related to River's grandfather at all.
Yes of course, you're entirely correct. I can't brain.
posted by coriolisdave at 3:03 PM on September 26
Yes of course, you're entirely correct. I can't brain.
posted by coriolisdave at 3:03 PM on September 26
These episodes go by so fast. I love this show and just wish it could show even more spycraft. Like I don't think they showed how River got off the train with no one seeing him.
Bad Sam Chapman's incompetence didn't bother me too much. Lamb told him not to go back to his office and he agreed he wouldn't, but then he did anyway. He was just lazy and overconfident. However I think the balcony-drop metal pipe attack through the extremely deep window niche was about as stupid of a plan as falling prey to it was.
I like to imagine that Grandfather Cartwright is the same character as Neil Burnside from "Sandbaggers". Okay, they're not really the same type of guy, but they are both rail thin asshole spymasters with big balloon heads.
It's kind of funny that Slough House is the old skudgy spy world, and MI5 is glass and gloss and mountains of bureaucracy. They've gotta follow all these rules, meanwhile Jackson Lamb is still driving around in a commandeered cab and I guess he might just keep it forever. No sense at all that any rules apply to him.
Cartwright's doppelganger could be a blood relation. We know the Les Arbres women give up their babies. They could be full brothers if it was a Sophie's Choice kind of situation (and maybe Bad Sam Champman's memory-vision will be updated later to include a baby), or River's mom could have left one child behind and been pregnant when she left, which would make the parting slap more legible.
posted by fleacircus at 6:58 PM on September 26
Bad Sam Chapman's incompetence didn't bother me too much. Lamb told him not to go back to his office and he agreed he wouldn't, but then he did anyway. He was just lazy and overconfident. However I think the balcony-drop metal pipe attack through the extremely deep window niche was about as stupid of a plan as falling prey to it was.
I like to imagine that Grandfather Cartwright is the same character as Neil Burnside from "Sandbaggers". Okay, they're not really the same type of guy, but they are both rail thin asshole spymasters with big balloon heads.
It's kind of funny that Slough House is the old skudgy spy world, and MI5 is glass and gloss and mountains of bureaucracy. They've gotta follow all these rules, meanwhile Jackson Lamb is still driving around in a commandeered cab and I guess he might just keep it forever. No sense at all that any rules apply to him.
Cartwright's doppelganger could be a blood relation. We know the Les Arbres women give up their babies. They could be full brothers if it was a Sophie's Choice kind of situation (and maybe Bad Sam Champman's memory-vision will be updated later to include a baby), or River's mom could have left one child behind and been pregnant when she left, which would make the parting slap more legible.
posted by fleacircus at 6:58 PM on September 26
River's mom could have left one child behind and been pregnant when she left
I just re-watched that bit, and (to me) she looks several months pregnant, but certainly far from gravid. They also show a ~12mo kiddo playing on the grass near another woman, so this is all definitely possible.
(I reckon she's 100% pregnant with River at this point)
posted by coriolisdave at 7:38 PM on September 26
I just re-watched that bit, and (to me) she looks several months pregnant, but certainly far from gravid. They also show a ~12mo kiddo playing on the grass near another woman, so this is all definitely possible.
(I reckon she's 100% pregnant with River at this point)
posted by coriolisdave at 7:38 PM on September 26
I thought the person greeting Claude on the floor might have been Stephen Merchant, of The Office, Extras, and Logan, but it's not showing up on his imdb.
Looking for info on that, I saw a description of Slow Horses as "James Bond crossed with Veep", which made me laugh!
I worried Flyte was going to run into Harkness, and I didn't like her chances.
River's bad luck, so proudly strolling away from Flyte.
> Dang this show just drops Hugo Weaving in here all slick, and then threatens to get him chopped up. The man hopefully has plot armor!
I'm nervous about him, so I wondered if he was manipulating "his highness" and that he might come out on top in a fight there.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:31 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Looking for info on that, I saw a description of Slow Horses as "James Bond crossed with Veep", which made me laugh!
I worried Flyte was going to run into Harkness, and I didn't like her chances.
River's bad luck, so proudly strolling away from Flyte.
> Dang this show just drops Hugo Weaving in here all slick, and then threatens to get him chopped up. The man hopefully has plot armor!
I'm nervous about him, so I wondered if he was manipulating "his highness" and that he might come out on top in a fight there.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:31 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
They couldn't cut him up in some hotel. He's an immortal Ring bearer.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:10 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:10 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]
Updated incompetence index (archive).
Oh that was good. I, too, would watch the hell out of Tattoo Dog. He's a proper theater actor with, I don't think, any actual visible tattoos based on other images of him I've seen including ones more current.
posted by jessamyn at 1:02 PM on September 27
Oh that was good. I, too, would watch the hell out of Tattoo Dog. He's a proper theater actor with, I don't think, any actual visible tattoos based on other images of him I've seen including ones more current.
posted by jessamyn at 1:02 PM on September 27
I saw a description of Slow Horses as "James Bond crossed with Veep", which made me laugh!
I think the show has more depth to its characters than the former - and certainly more compassion for them than the latter - in that respects it reminds me of the French show "A very Secret Service/Au service de la France"
Readers might be interested in the story of No 6 Special Workshop School - located at Inverlair Lodge and used by the Special Executive operations in WW2. Here - about 80 agents who were considered unable/unwilling or no longer suitable for completing the secret missions they had been trained on, lived out the rest of the war doing assault courses, prepare meals for each other and fixing boots - in a location very far from anywhere else. Inverlair was the inspiration for The Prisoner - and maybe for Slough House too - but while The Prisoner concerned itself with elite spies who had found out "too much" about the spy system itself - Slow Horses is more true to live with Jagger's "losers misfits and boozers". One documented Inverlair resident, for exmple, was "Badger" who boasted about his assigment, slept with somebody from the French resistence and posed for photos with her. The place would have been an interesting mixture of the incompetant, the traumatized and the consciencious objector.
We should also consider that the need to deal with people who get caught in this situation still persists. It may not be called "Slough House" - but it will be out there somewhere -and we should maybe be a little sympathetic to its occupants.
posted by rongorongo at 1:31 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
I think the show has more depth to its characters than the former - and certainly more compassion for them than the latter - in that respects it reminds me of the French show "A very Secret Service/Au service de la France"
Readers might be interested in the story of No 6 Special Workshop School - located at Inverlair Lodge and used by the Special Executive operations in WW2. Here - about 80 agents who were considered unable/unwilling or no longer suitable for completing the secret missions they had been trained on, lived out the rest of the war doing assault courses, prepare meals for each other and fixing boots - in a location very far from anywhere else. Inverlair was the inspiration for The Prisoner - and maybe for Slough House too - but while The Prisoner concerned itself with elite spies who had found out "too much" about the spy system itself - Slow Horses is more true to live with Jagger's "losers misfits and boozers". One documented Inverlair resident, for exmple, was "Badger" who boasted about his assigment, slept with somebody from the French resistence and posed for photos with her. The place would have been an interesting mixture of the incompetant, the traumatized and the consciencious objector.
We should also consider that the need to deal with people who get caught in this situation still persists. It may not be called "Slough House" - but it will be out there somewhere -and we should maybe be a little sympathetic to its occupants.
posted by rongorongo at 1:31 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
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posted by dis_integration at 8:06 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]