Arrow: Suicidal Tendencies
March 29, 2015 8:52 AM - Season 3, Episode 17 - Subscribe
Dig and Lyla get some action (although not the kind they were expecting), the Suicide Squad pops up again, the League of Assassins continues to frame the Arrow for murder, Ray Palmer rubs everybody the wrong way, and the A.T.O.M. suit gets its first combat field test.
It's not just you. This season has been lacking something, especially following the rollercoaster of fun that was season two. Also, I don't necessarily believe Deadshot is dead, but I wouldn't stake a heavy bet on that belief.
Oh, and can I say how much I dislike knock-off Iron Man? Atom shouldn't be a armour suit-based hero. There are other DC options if that's the route they wanted to take.
posted by sardonyx at 10:08 AM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, and can I say how much I dislike knock-off Iron Man? Atom shouldn't be a armour suit-based hero. There are other DC options if that's the route they wanted to take.
posted by sardonyx at 10:08 AM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Comments from previous S3 threads here seem to have centered around 1) the flashbacks this season are Not Good for various reasons and 2) Laurel Lance is pretty much awful at everything.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:16 AM on March 29, 2015
posted by soundguy99 at 10:16 AM on March 29, 2015
And, yeah, while I see that Arrow is trying to stay borderline-plausible when it comes to powers, having Atom just be an Iron Man copy seems like a waste. Maybe something will develop in the rest of the season.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:20 AM on March 29, 2015
posted by soundguy99 at 10:20 AM on March 29, 2015
I think the straightforward presentation of Atom as a supersuit hero may be a ruse to make the reveal of his shrinking powers more dramatic. After all, his "hero" persona and tech are still in development.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:30 AM on March 29, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:30 AM on March 29, 2015
Phony Stark.
posted by Uncle Ira at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Uncle Ira at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
I didn't love this episode's use of PTSD and domestic violence as a plot device; it felt like the decision to make that part of the episode was made without much thought for how they would do that, and then it just got kind shoehorned into the B plot. That combined with the general sense of "soldiers with PTSD are broken killing machines, but at least they can still die nobly" didn't sit well with me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, I don't necessarily believe Deadshot is dead,
No one ever dies.
posted by FallowKing at 1:03 PM on March 29, 2015
No one ever dies.
posted by FallowKing at 1:03 PM on March 29, 2015
The biggest problem I have with S03 is the overall failure to link the five-years-ago flashbacks back to the present-day narrative. The flashbacks have never been the most compelling part of the show, but now I find myself playing with my phone or grabbing a snack when they come up. Having Masao as both Ollie's hitman buddy and Ra's al-Ghul's henchman is a fairly shruggable plot development, and they haven't made us particularly care about his wife and kid either. Speaking of which, I was fine with RaG existing in the Arrowverse since he's a part of the DCU proper, but it feels like they're just doubling down on the early-series Batman-ness that I felt they'd broken away from in S02. This whole be-my-successor thing is such a timeworn Batman plot that it doesn't feel right with Green Arrow.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:10 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:10 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Could someone give me a quick and dirty (or good link) explaining the backstory of the Suicide Squad? Not even sure if that's what they're called collectively - the four people fighting together in the last episode. I was totally bewildered by the entire thing. Deadshot, Diggle's brother's death at his hands, and how they all knew each other, and who they work for. I have never seen Arrow before this season. If he did kill Diggle's brother, does Diggle know?
posted by the webmistress at 2:03 PM on March 29, 2015
posted by the webmistress at 2:03 PM on March 29, 2015
Could someone give me a quick and dirty (or good link) explaining the backstory of the Suicide Squad?
Officially they're called "Task Force X" in-universe. Here's some quick info for you:
Deadshot's backstory
Task Force X history
Diggle's dead brother, Andy
posted by Servo5678 at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Officially they're called "Task Force X" in-universe. Here's some quick info for you:
Deadshot's backstory
Task Force X history
Diggle's dead brother, Andy
posted by Servo5678 at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's the point of a Suicide Squad if you have non-disposable people comprising half the team? The whole point of the Sucide Squad is that you can explode their heads and disavow them if they go off-mission or screw up.
And what the hell is wrong with ARGUS's leave policy? Seriously, they were on their honeymoon - didn't they have someone backfilling Lilah's role while she was on holiday. No wonder Lilah quit. ARGUS HR must be a nightmare job.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:47 PM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
And what the hell is wrong with ARGUS's leave policy? Seriously, they were on their honeymoon - didn't they have someone backfilling Lilah's role while she was on holiday. No wonder Lilah quit. ARGUS HR must be a nightmare job.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:47 PM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thanks, Servo5678! Getting up to speed now...
posted by the webmistress at 2:49 PM on March 29, 2015
posted by the webmistress at 2:49 PM on March 29, 2015
And, yeah, while I see that Arrow is trying to stay borderline-plausible when it comes to powers, having Atom just be an Iron Man copy seems like a waste. Maybe something will develop in the rest of the season.
Also, it's a pretty crappy Iron Man copy. Vulnerable to knives? Also, glass face plate? Literally every single criminal in Starling has, like, four Uzis and a bonus AK47. They will just shoot you thirty times in the face.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:49 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, it's a pretty crappy Iron Man copy. Vulnerable to knives? Also, glass face plate? Literally every single criminal in Starling has, like, four Uzis and a bonus AK47. They will just shoot you thirty times in the face.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:49 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, right, and the other big S03 problem is that Ray Palmer's romantic pursuit of Felicity was definitely WAY over the line into Creepy Rich Douche McCreepster territory more than a few times, and the fact that the writers & show creators were some combo of: 1) oblivious to that, 2) thought that shit was actually romantic, 3) didn't care, just kept bulling their way to Felicity + Ray just so Oliver could get all angsty about it definitely tarnished the character that turned out to be everyone's favorite and caused a lot of groaning while watching.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:01 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 5:01 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
While I definitely feel like the season plot moved forward, the decision to kill off Deadshot and to do the flashback story about him (which was a telltale that he was a goner) didn't work well for me. Also I am so over the Oliver/Ray/Felicity triangle, but if they have to do it, actually bringing some superheroic consequences into it was nice.
posted by immlass at 9:19 PM on March 29, 2015
posted by immlass at 9:19 PM on March 29, 2015
Ray Palmer wouldn't last 13 seconds in Central City.
In addition to Barry and Eobard, he wouldn't stand up to Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Mist, Golden Glider, Weather Wizard, Firestorm, Prism, Peek-A-Boo or Grodd.
I'd give better than even odds that Cisco and Caitlin could cobble up something to take him down, too...
posted by Mad_Carew at 9:45 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
In addition to Barry and Eobard, he wouldn't stand up to Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Mist, Golden Glider, Weather Wizard, Firestorm, Prism, Peek-A-Boo or Grodd.
I'd give better than even odds that Cisco and Caitlin could cobble up something to take him down, too...
posted by Mad_Carew at 9:45 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's the point of a Suicide Squad if you have non-disposable people comprising half the team?
If you accept being willing to make your employees miserable beyond the point where they'll still put up with it (apparently true) then I see no reason not to think Waller would consider John Diggle disposable. So until he volunteered it was 1/3 non-disposable and afterwards it was 1/4. And with their brain-splodey stuff they still have some remote management over the criminals so perhaps they consider Lilah disposable too.
For the level of careful Arrow works with I think "Amanda Waller just don't give AF" isn't out of place here.
posted by phearlez at 10:33 AM on March 30, 2015
If you accept being willing to make your employees miserable beyond the point where they'll still put up with it (apparently true) then I see no reason not to think Waller would consider John Diggle disposable. So until he volunteered it was 1/3 non-disposable and afterwards it was 1/4. And with their brain-splodey stuff they still have some remote management over the criminals so perhaps they consider Lilah disposable too.
For the level of careful Arrow works with I think "Amanda Waller just don't give AF" isn't out of place here.
posted by phearlez at 10:33 AM on March 30, 2015
If you accept being willing to make your employees miserable beyond the point where they'll still put up with it (apparently true) then I see no reason not to think Waller would consider John Diggle disposable. So until he volunteered it was 1/3 non-disposable and afterwards it was 1/4.
Sure, but having non-explodable team members means that you can't explode the whole team if they get captured, before they spill the beans. It makes the disavowability less useful.
Anyway, Waller's HR practices obviously suck, given that she goes through so much effort to recruit Flashback Oliver even though he's not very good at almost everything, instead of just using her apparently inexhaustible army of competent already trained suit guys to torture suspects and retrieve crap.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2015
Sure, but having non-explodable team members means that you can't explode the whole team if they get captured, before they spill the beans. It makes the disavowability less useful.
Anyway, Waller's HR practices obviously suck, given that she goes through so much effort to recruit Flashback Oliver even though he's not very good at almost everything, instead of just using her apparently inexhaustible army of competent already trained suit guys to torture suspects and retrieve crap.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2015
soundguy99: Comments from previous S3 threads here seem to have centered around 1) the flashbacks this season are Not Good for various reasons and 2) Laurel Lance is pretty much awful at everything.
To be fair, Laurel Lance has been pretty much awful at everything from the series premiere on.
posted by brundlefly at 12:20 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
To be fair, Laurel Lance has been pretty much awful at everything from the series premiere on.
posted by brundlefly at 12:20 AM on March 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ray had pink eye, right? In his right eye? On the plus side for this episode, no Thea.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Previously, I've generally liked non-Oliver flashbacks (we had them this season for Felicity, Thea, and Malcolm). But I don't need them for tertiary characters.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:12 AM on April 5, 2015
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:12 AM on April 5, 2015
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I was surprised to see Deadshot killed off considering he's popular, but then I read that WB/DC/Will Smith/someone wanted there to be only one Deadshot in live action - the one in the movies - and that meant the TV version had to go. Such a shame if that's true. It reminds me of when the Justice League cartoon couldn't use Batman characters that were slated for the films in development at the time.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2015