Reply All: #35 One Strike
August 14, 2015 9:18 AM - Subscribe
In the first half Preston Mardenborough has posted the same ad to craigslist over 300 times, Sylvie Douglis finds out why. In the second half Barry Crimmins embarked on on a one-man crusade to stop child pornographers on AOL in the mid-90's.
10 Minutes On Craigslist returns with a man posting the same ad to Craigslist over 300 times, trying to reconnect with old friends and acquaintances from the Sea Colony bar in Greenwich Village in the 1960's.
After the break, Barry Crimmins is an influential comedian, a survivor of sexual abuse, and in the mid-90's he embarked on a one-man crusade to stop child pornographers who were operating with impunity on America Online.
10 Minutes On Craigslist returns with a man posting the same ad to Craigslist over 300 times, trying to reconnect with old friends and acquaintances from the Sea Colony bar in Greenwich Village in the 1960's.
After the break, Barry Crimmins is an influential comedian, a survivor of sexual abuse, and in the mid-90's he embarked on a one-man crusade to stop child pornographers who were operating with impunity on America Online.
I'm not surprised that the police were uncertain how to respond -- this was an emerging technology, after all. And I shouldn't be surprised that, since they didn't know how to respond, they just chose not to.I would think that when a private citizen comes to you with massive evidence of an online criminal ring engaged in sexually abusing children, even if it is complicated, you figure out how to take care of it. Instead, it just went unaddressed, and children went on being abused.
I know people have complained about the format when there are a couple of things per episode, but I don't really mind it, and I loved the first interview.
posted by maxsparber at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2015
I know people have complained about the format when there are a couple of things per episode, but I don't really mind it, and I loved the first interview.
posted by maxsparber at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2015
One thing that they didn't quite emphasize in Reply All that was mentioned in the Fresh Air interview is *why* AOL was so slow to respond to the child porn chat rooms. It's because they were making a ton of money off of it. Back in the days of dial up, you paid per minute. And photos took a looong time to upload or download. AOL was not keen to take down a money-maker.
This is Barry's belief. I did not get enough confirmation that it was true from the people I talked to in the course of writing this story. So I did not include that assertion.
posted by Alex Goldman at 10:24 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is Barry's belief. I did not get enough confirmation that it was true from the people I talked to in the course of writing this story. So I did not include that assertion.
posted by Alex Goldman at 10:24 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Probably wise. AOL probably could use some of that sweet sweet podcasting money they might get suing for libel.
posted by maxsparber at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by maxsparber at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2015
[...] AOL was not keen to take down a money-maker.
Not to pile on, but I would be surprised if this was anything more than a disturbing fringe benefit of doing nothing. Partly because, at least in the offices I've worked in, people are generally smart enough not to say such things anywhere it could be minuted and made into official policy (and thus held against you later), and partly because no matter what you think of them AOL was still run by regular people and not just straight out sociopaths. I am also dubious that the amount of child porn on AOL was so voluminous as to make a sizable dent in their revenues.
I think the real reason is probably a lot more banal: Doing something would have been expensive and hard. It is always easier and cheaper to do nothing and pretend the problem doesn't exist than to hire a bunch of people to police the chat rooms (and then the whole legal quagmire of what do you do with it? afterwards)
As for the police, boy how things have changed in the last 20 years, the fuzz went from not knowing how to computer to us all just assuming they read our email and intercept our cell-phone calls perpetually and for funsies.
I thought Preston's hunt for his lesbian crew from back in the day was rather sweet. I hope he reunites with them, and there is a follow up episode on the stories of the Sea Colony. I would especially like to hear the ladies' side of the story. I like that he roped Sylvie into being his lesbian match-maker, I feel like we could all hear her go "wait, wut?" in her head.
posted by selenized at 12:39 PM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not to pile on, but I would be surprised if this was anything more than a disturbing fringe benefit of doing nothing. Partly because, at least in the offices I've worked in, people are generally smart enough not to say such things anywhere it could be minuted and made into official policy (and thus held against you later), and partly because no matter what you think of them AOL was still run by regular people and not just straight out sociopaths. I am also dubious that the amount of child porn on AOL was so voluminous as to make a sizable dent in their revenues.
I think the real reason is probably a lot more banal: Doing something would have been expensive and hard. It is always easier and cheaper to do nothing and pretend the problem doesn't exist than to hire a bunch of people to police the chat rooms (and then the whole legal quagmire of what do you do with it? afterwards)
As for the police, boy how things have changed in the last 20 years, the fuzz went from not knowing how to computer to us all just assuming they read our email and intercept our cell-phone calls perpetually and for funsies.
I thought Preston's hunt for his lesbian crew from back in the day was rather sweet. I hope he reunites with them, and there is a follow up episode on the stories of the Sea Colony. I would especially like to hear the ladies' side of the story. I like that he roped Sylvie into being his lesbian match-maker, I feel like we could all hear her go "wait, wut?" in her head.
posted by selenized at 12:39 PM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
As for the police, boy how things have changed in the last 20 years, the fuzz went from not knowing how to computer to us all just assuming they read our email and intercept our cell-phone calls perpetually and for funsies.
Ha, I was thinking about how little things have changed - when hearing stories about how police SWATting and internet harassment/death threats, the police response sounds kind of the same.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2015
Ha, I was thinking about how little things have changed - when hearing stories about how police SWATting and internet harassment/death threats, the police response sounds kind of the same.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2015
There's a nice article on the Sea Colony bar on Lost Womyn's Spaces, and then, at the bottom, is a comment that I am sure is by the show's interview subject.
He was also the subject of a Village Voice profile four years ago that netted exactly zero comments. A pity.
At least one person remembers the bar: Joan Nestle. She either wrote about it or was interviewed about it in A Queer World: The Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies Reader. She also remembers Maria, the bartender.
Here's an oral history with Joan Nestle from 1994 that mentions the bar, and also mentions Maria. She seems to have made quite an impact.
I'm going to shoot Preston an email to say that if he hasn't tried to connect with Joan Nestle, he should.
posted by maxsparber at 1:10 PM on August 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
He was also the subject of a Village Voice profile four years ago that netted exactly zero comments. A pity.
At least one person remembers the bar: Joan Nestle. She either wrote about it or was interviewed about it in A Queer World: The Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies Reader. She also remembers Maria, the bartender.
Here's an oral history with Joan Nestle from 1994 that mentions the bar, and also mentions Maria. She seems to have made quite an impact.
I'm going to shoot Preston an email to say that if he hasn't tried to connect with Joan Nestle, he should.
posted by maxsparber at 1:10 PM on August 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
According to Rebels, Rubyfruit, and Rhinestones: Queering Space in the Stonewall South, author Merril Mushroom was also a frequent visitor to the Sea Colony.
posted by maxsparber at 1:31 PM on August 14, 2015
posted by maxsparber at 1:31 PM on August 14, 2015
Wow - this was the best episode of ReplyAll EVER. I love the funny, light, irreverent stuff, but both Preston's Sea Colony reminisces and the Barry Crimmins segment were really, really affecting and powerful.
posted by julthumbscrew at 9:03 PM on August 14, 2015
posted by julthumbscrew at 9:03 PM on August 14, 2015
Preston's segment is begging for a Reply All/Mystery Show crossover special.
(Also, did one of the two subjects of this episode offhandedly indicate they assumed they were being recorded for NPR?)
posted by nobody at 5:33 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Also, did one of the two subjects of this episode offhandedly indicate they assumed they were being recorded for NPR?)
posted by nobody at 5:33 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Alex Goldman - fair enough, that was a good journalistic call.
posted by radioamy at 11:11 AM on August 15, 2015
posted by radioamy at 11:11 AM on August 15, 2015
Aaa
posted by to sir with millipedes at 11:30 AM on August 15, 2015
posted by to sir with millipedes at 11:30 AM on August 15, 2015
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
One thing that they didn't quite emphasize in Reply All that was mentioned in the Fresh Air interview is *why* AOL was so slow to respond to the child porn chat rooms. It's because they were making a ton of money off of it. Back in the days of dial up, you paid per minute. And photos took a looong time to upload or download. AOL was not keen to take down a money-maker.
posted by radioamy at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2015