Supergirl: Hostile Takeover
December 15, 2015 5:15 AM - Season 1, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Astra challenges Kara's beliefs about her mother; a hacker exposes Cat's private emails, putting her job at risk.
Oh and which of the canonical list of Martian Manhunter powers (All of them. He has all of the powers), do you think we'll get to see? He can shapeshift and he's telepathic, so we know he's got two, presumably along with the standard package of strength and reduced vulnerability. I am so excited for the continuing exploration of this.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:39 AM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:39 AM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, I guess Supergirl is not in the same universe as Man of Steel? "Superman doesn't kill people" seemed pretty jarring, since he is on record as snapping the neck of another power hungry, out-of-control Kryptonian. I guess it's fine if DC wants their TV and movie franchises separate, but that really stood out, especially with Batman versus Superman coming up.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:41 AM on December 15, 2015
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:41 AM on December 15, 2015
They're definitely separate, as they're casting a different (and no doubt inferior) actor as the Barry Allen for the Justice League and Flash movies. I'm pretty happy about that since it means I can safely ignore the DC movies unless I hear something that indicates that they're better than I'm expecting.
Except Aquaman. I will probably see Aquaman.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:45 AM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except Aquaman. I will probably see Aquaman.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:45 AM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I want more Hank.
So is it just me, or do they do something special to Calista Flockhart's face for the camera? Her whole face has a gaussian blur look to it that is very distracting. I'm guessing it's some kind of special makeup that reflects light. She has the face of an angel, literally......her face skin is always glowing. When she and Kara are in her office, the camera switches to Kara and you can see a small scar on her face, and various unevenness to her skin tone, and basically Kara looks human (the irony). I assume the glow is to hide...something? A scar? Wrinkles? I wish they would stop it. She is allowed to have a scar or wrinkles on her face. She would still be wonderful in the role. Obvs.
posted by the webmistress at 6:58 AM on December 15, 2015
So is it just me, or do they do something special to Calista Flockhart's face for the camera? Her whole face has a gaussian blur look to it that is very distracting. I'm guessing it's some kind of special makeup that reflects light. She has the face of an angel, literally......her face skin is always glowing. When she and Kara are in her office, the camera switches to Kara and you can see a small scar on her face, and various unevenness to her skin tone, and basically Kara looks human (the irony). I assume the glow is to hide...something? A scar? Wrinkles? I wish they would stop it. She is allowed to have a scar or wrinkles on her face. She would still be wonderful in the role. Obvs.
posted by the webmistress at 6:58 AM on December 15, 2015
I guess it's fine if DC wants their TV and movie franchises separate, but that really stood out, especially with Batman versus Superman coming up.
He also kills Zod in Superman II. Maybe Supergirl and Superman just don't count Zod as people?
posted by bgal81 at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2015
He also kills Zod in Superman II. Maybe Supergirl and Superman just don't count Zod as people?
posted by bgal81 at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2015
I just always assumed that by people they meant humans.
posted by the webmistress at 10:58 AM on December 15, 2015
posted by the webmistress at 10:58 AM on December 15, 2015
It is not explicitly shown in Superman II that Zod and the Kryptonians are killed. In fact, I think there's a cut scene of them being led out of the fortress of solitude in handcuffs.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:44 AM on December 15, 2015
posted by wabbittwax at 11:44 AM on December 15, 2015
I was wondering how long it would take Cat to figure out Kara and Supergirl were one and the same. Kara's verbal slip regarding overhearing the board members' conversation seemed to be the final piece of the puzzle for Cat. I think she's actually suspected it for a while but wanted Kara to actually confirm it.
posted by Telpethoron at 1:08 PM on December 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Telpethoron at 1:08 PM on December 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Has Cat always pronounced Kara's name as "Kiera" or has that just started the last few episodes? I can't say I noticed it at the beginning of the show, but it has bugging me the past few weeks. I don't think it's deliberate, as in "I'm too busy and important to remember the name of my underlings." It seems to be something Callista Flockhart just does.
posted by sardonyx at 2:16 PM on December 15, 2015
posted by sardonyx at 2:16 PM on December 15, 2015
I've been wondering the same thing. At first I thought maybe she mispronounced it in different ways to give off exactly the vibe you suggest. Except she mispronounces it the same way every time so, like you, I'm starting to think that Callista Flockhart simply doesn't know the name is supposed to be "Kara".
Other than that I am digging her character.
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Other than that I am digging her character.
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hm. Liked it overall, but I agree with the AV Club about it having a weirdly flipped focus: it's pretty clear the writers considered the material with Cat to be more important, so the entire universe corresponded to that. (The idea she'd still be news after the battle with Astra really is pretty nutty.)
That said:
* Cat's great. I really didn't think she would be, but Callista Flockheart and the writers are both continuing to bring their A-game there. Her figuring out the Supergirl thing was handled well. I appreciate that she wasn't the least bit troubled by Kara keeping it a secret, and suspect she'll be a valuable ally. (The weird 'Kira' thing has been ongoing for a bit. I think it was intended to be a 'she doesn't remember the name' gag partly because she never gets Wynn's name right. Not sure why it's still going on.)
* I too am curious how Martian Manhunter is going to work, going forward. As has been pointed out in earlier threads, comics-MM should be a little more powerful than Kara. (Also, he seems pretty cavalier about his secret now - any or all of the people there could've heard his reveal, especially the Kryptonians. I am also a little confused as to why Superman knows about him, but he won't reveal himself to Kara, particularly since it would secure greater cooperation from her.)
* While I generally appreciate Supergirl handling stuff with only the support of her friends and the DEO, multiple Kryptonian criminals feel like the moment to start calling for Superman and friends. I mean, every single one of them is roughly a match for Superman - that's a *lot* of firepower to be confronting solo when there are phone calls that can be made, and it seems irresponsible not to at least check. (Like, they could just have everybody else be unavailable, unable to get there in time, etc., but it seems remiss not to give it a nod.)
* The fights look a little silly in places, but I'm still fond of them because they at least try to showcase just how powerful Kara is.
posted by mordax at 3:14 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
That said:
* Cat's great. I really didn't think she would be, but Callista Flockheart and the writers are both continuing to bring their A-game there. Her figuring out the Supergirl thing was handled well. I appreciate that she wasn't the least bit troubled by Kara keeping it a secret, and suspect she'll be a valuable ally. (The weird 'Kira' thing has been ongoing for a bit. I think it was intended to be a 'she doesn't remember the name' gag partly because she never gets Wynn's name right. Not sure why it's still going on.)
* I too am curious how Martian Manhunter is going to work, going forward. As has been pointed out in earlier threads, comics-MM should be a little more powerful than Kara. (Also, he seems pretty cavalier about his secret now - any or all of the people there could've heard his reveal, especially the Kryptonians. I am also a little confused as to why Superman knows about him, but he won't reveal himself to Kara, particularly since it would secure greater cooperation from her.)
* While I generally appreciate Supergirl handling stuff with only the support of her friends and the DEO, multiple Kryptonian criminals feel like the moment to start calling for Superman and friends. I mean, every single one of them is roughly a match for Superman - that's a *lot* of firepower to be confronting solo when there are phone calls that can be made, and it seems irresponsible not to at least check. (Like, they could just have everybody else be unavailable, unable to get there in time, etc., but it seems remiss not to give it a nod.)
* The fights look a little silly in places, but I'm still fond of them because they at least try to showcase just how powerful Kara is.
posted by mordax at 3:14 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has Cat always pronounced Kara's name as "Kiera" or has that just started the last few episodes?
I watch with the closed captioning on, and it's almost always deliberately misspelled "Ker-rah" or something similar to match her mispronunciation. I think there was only one time that it was "Kara" in Cat's subtitling, in episode 4 or 5 when Cat first took notice of Kara as a person. So, it's not Flockhart making a mistake, it's a character choice in the writing, like her calling Winn "that handsome little hobbit who has more cardigans than you do."
posted by oh yeah! at 4:38 PM on December 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
I watch with the closed captioning on, and it's almost always deliberately misspelled "Ker-rah" or something similar to match her mispronunciation. I think there was only one time that it was "Kara" in Cat's subtitling, in episode 4 or 5 when Cat first took notice of Kara as a person. So, it's not Flockhart making a mistake, it's a character choice in the writing, like her calling Winn "that handsome little hobbit who has more cardigans than you do."
posted by oh yeah! at 4:38 PM on December 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm having a hard time with Supergirl for not getting any blowback for body smashing Astra through the, presumably inhabited, skyscraper.
I actually went and rewound it to make sure I didn't miss something and have that backwards. That's dangerous, un-Supergirl like behavior. I guess she's not as worried about collateral damage as Superman.
posted by bswinburn at 4:56 PM on December 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
I actually went and rewound it to make sure I didn't miss something and have that backwards. That's dangerous, un-Supergirl like behavior. I guess she's not as worried about collateral damage as Superman.
posted by bswinburn at 4:56 PM on December 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
So is it just me, or do they do something special to Calista Flockhart's face for the camera?
Yeah, after seeing Calista Flockhart on the Star Wars red carpet, they are definitely doing something to her face. And agreed it was unnecessary.
And yeah, I think the lack of in-universe reaction to the Astra thing is beginning to be suspension-of-disbelief-breaking. Not just the throwing through a skyscraper, but the fact that Superman ought to show up when his uncle's criminal sister-in-law and her husband and their thugs are blowing up National City, etc. etc. etc. But I do love that they said something about Martian Manhunter not being able to read Superman's mind and it being a thing.
posted by immlass at 6:34 PM on December 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, after seeing Calista Flockhart on the Star Wars red carpet, they are definitely doing something to her face. And agreed it was unnecessary.
And yeah, I think the lack of in-universe reaction to the Astra thing is beginning to be suspension-of-disbelief-breaking. Not just the throwing through a skyscraper, but the fact that Superman ought to show up when his uncle's criminal sister-in-law and her husband and their thugs are blowing up National City, etc. etc. etc. But I do love that they said something about Martian Manhunter not being able to read Superman's mind and it being a thing.
posted by immlass at 6:34 PM on December 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just love that Cat figured it out all on her own. She is my favorite on this show and her budding friendship with Kara is adorable and I'm looking forward to more of it.
This is reminding me of a book series I read called Bigtime, which was a world of superheroes and everyone just had WHOPPING amounts of genre blindness, so when one character was trying to figure out who was secretly a superhero/villain, she had to resort to other investigative skills.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:00 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is reminding me of a book series I read called Bigtime, which was a world of superheroes and everyone just had WHOPPING amounts of genre blindness, so when one character was trying to figure out who was secretly a superhero/villain, she had to resort to other investigative skills.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:00 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has Cat always pronounced Kara's name as "Kiera" or has that just started the last few episodes?
My impression, and I'm not guaranteeing it is 100% accurate, was that in the first episode or two, Cat got Kara's name wildly and inconsistently wrong, and in the last 3 or 4 episodes, as Kara's become more important to Cat, she's gotten so she's consistently, and only slightly, incorrect about Kara's name. At this point she probably thinks she's actually learned Kara's name and just nobody's corrected her recently enough that the correction actually registered.
posted by mstokes650 at 7:42 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
My impression, and I'm not guaranteeing it is 100% accurate, was that in the first episode or two, Cat got Kara's name wildly and inconsistently wrong, and in the last 3 or 4 episodes, as Kara's become more important to Cat, she's gotten so she's consistently, and only slightly, incorrect about Kara's name. At this point she probably thinks she's actually learned Kara's name and just nobody's corrected her recently enough that the correction actually registered.
posted by mstokes650 at 7:42 PM on December 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just read this on TLo with regards to Calista Flockhart on the Star Wars red carpet (thanks, immlass): "Oh, so that’s what Calista’s face looks like when they don’t run it through a digital wringer on Supergirl. She looks great. We have no idea why they keep using the blur tool on her face, but it’s a shame, because she’s giving pretty much the best performance on that show and keeping it interesting".
posted by the webmistress at 7:50 PM on December 15, 2015
posted by the webmistress at 7:50 PM on December 15, 2015
And yeah, I think the lack of in-universe reaction to the Astra thing is beginning to be suspension-of-disbelief-breaking. Not just the throwing through a skyscraper, but the fact that Superman ought to show up when his uncle's criminal sister-in-law and her husband and their thugs are blowing up National City, etc. etc. etc.
I just assumed that, as reasonably bright alien supervillains, they timed their activities for some time when Superman is either off planet or distracted with something else. After all, Superman can't be everywhere at the same time, and it was only a couple minutes after the alert went out before Supergirl arrived.
posted by happyroach at 7:54 PM on December 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just assumed that, as reasonably bright alien supervillains, they timed their activities for some time when Superman is either off planet or distracted with something else. After all, Superman can't be everywhere at the same time, and it was only a couple minutes after the alert went out before Supergirl arrived.
posted by happyroach at 7:54 PM on December 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just assumed that, as reasonably bright alien supervillains, they timed their activities for some time when Superman is either off planet or distracted with something else.
It's not so much that Superman should necessarily *be* there, it's more that there should be a quick nod to why he's not. Like having James say, "Man, too bad Superman's across the galaxy, we could really use the help!"
Just a quick nod to the obvious would be cool.
posted by mordax at 9:05 PM on December 16, 2015
It's not so much that Superman should necessarily *be* there, it's more that there should be a quick nod to why he's not. Like having James say, "Man, too bad Superman's across the galaxy, we could really use the help!"
Just a quick nod to the obvious would be cool.
posted by mordax at 9:05 PM on December 16, 2015
It's not so much that Superman should necessarily *be* there, it's more that there should be a quick nod to why he's not.
Eh, I don't see it as necessary, because I don't care about Superman, and have no interest in knowing where he is. AFAIC, every second rested in mentioning Superman is a second where Cat Grant isn't speaking.
And three thing is, if they HAD mentioned Superman, the accusations would be that Supergirl can't get out of the shadow of Superman. Can't win this one..
posted by happyroach at 12:25 AM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Eh, I don't see it as necessary, because I don't care about Superman, and have no interest in knowing where he is. AFAIC, every second rested in mentioning Superman is a second where Cat Grant isn't speaking.
And three thing is, if they HAD mentioned Superman, the accusations would be that Supergirl can't get out of the shadow of Superman. Can't win this one..
posted by happyroach at 12:25 AM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
And three thing is, if they HAD mentioned Superman, the accusations would be that Supergirl can't get out of the shadow of Superman. Can't win this one..
I don't agree with that line of reasoning because they keep teasing about him in the background: he encouraged James to help Kara out. Martian Manhunter is 'out' with Superman, but not Kara for reasons that remain unexplained. Superman was watching closely enough to intervene with Reactron. He's an IM conversation away, and Kara has known about Astra for awhile now.
They already mention Superman tons. If they didn't, I'd be with you - they don't talk about Green Lanterns or Batman, so I don't expect to hear about that. However, having all these cute little nods makes the whole thing weird. This isn't just 'Kara is in danger' - I agree that we, the audience, may infer that he's okay with that without any kind of explanation, and that it would be counterproductive to go on and on about it.
However, this is 'hey by the way, your race isn't actually extinct, but only the most violent criminals survived.' It's inconsistent that Superman *was* interested in a two-bit thug like Reactron, but is *not* interested in this. It's also a little big for him to stay out of just because Kara wants to do stuff on her own. It's not puzzling on the strength of sources outside the show - it's weird given the information offered in prior episodes.
It's also not an isolated complaint in the episode: it's pretty clear that the stuff with Astra and the other Kryptonians is an afterthought compared to Cat's corporate intrigue. Like, I don't get the impression this was a deliberate omission. I feel like they just didn't think about it. (Personally, I wish they'd just given Cat's takedown its own episode, maybe with a boring monster of the week. Trying to pack two Really Important Events into the same episode is probably why the strings are showing here.)
It's cool that you're *not* disappointed, and I am certainly not trying to persuade you to be. I just don't think it's an unreasonable complaint for those of us who noticed.
posted by mordax at 3:27 AM on December 17, 2015
I don't agree with that line of reasoning because they keep teasing about him in the background: he encouraged James to help Kara out. Martian Manhunter is 'out' with Superman, but not Kara for reasons that remain unexplained. Superman was watching closely enough to intervene with Reactron. He's an IM conversation away, and Kara has known about Astra for awhile now.
They already mention Superman tons. If they didn't, I'd be with you - they don't talk about Green Lanterns or Batman, so I don't expect to hear about that. However, having all these cute little nods makes the whole thing weird. This isn't just 'Kara is in danger' - I agree that we, the audience, may infer that he's okay with that without any kind of explanation, and that it would be counterproductive to go on and on about it.
However, this is 'hey by the way, your race isn't actually extinct, but only the most violent criminals survived.' It's inconsistent that Superman *was* interested in a two-bit thug like Reactron, but is *not* interested in this. It's also a little big for him to stay out of just because Kara wants to do stuff on her own. It's not puzzling on the strength of sources outside the show - it's weird given the information offered in prior episodes.
It's also not an isolated complaint in the episode: it's pretty clear that the stuff with Astra and the other Kryptonians is an afterthought compared to Cat's corporate intrigue. Like, I don't get the impression this was a deliberate omission. I feel like they just didn't think about it. (Personally, I wish they'd just given Cat's takedown its own episode, maybe with a boring monster of the week. Trying to pack two Really Important Events into the same episode is probably why the strings are showing here.)
It's cool that you're *not* disappointed, and I am certainly not trying to persuade you to be. I just don't think it's an unreasonable complaint for those of us who noticed.
posted by mordax at 3:27 AM on December 17, 2015
Yeah, I was okay with Superman leaving National City to Kara - she's shown that she can handle things there and she needs space to come into her own. But if Superman and J'onn are friends, then how did he not call in Big Blue to deal with a horde of goddamned Kryptonian super-criminals? Either Clark is asleep at the wheel or Hank/MMH is.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:11 AM on December 17, 2015
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:11 AM on December 17, 2015
If Hank is more powerful than Kara (by a little?) why is she the one who ends up taking on all the worst baddies instead of Hank? That does not make sense.
posted by Justinian at 2:38 PM on December 17, 2015
posted by Justinian at 2:38 PM on December 17, 2015
I'm having a hard time with Supergirl for not getting any blowback for body smashing Astra through the, presumably inhabited, skyscraper.
Well, the US Bank Tower did have quite a high vacancy rate until recently, so there would have been good odds they went through unoccupied floors.
What I thought was ridiculous was the cinder-block chunk of wall that Supergirl then proceeds to catch and fling at Astra. Doesn't seem like the sort of building material you'd see on the higher floors of a skyscraper.
posted by jimw at 5:32 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the US Bank Tower did have quite a high vacancy rate until recently, so there would have been good odds they went through unoccupied floors.
What I thought was ridiculous was the cinder-block chunk of wall that Supergirl then proceeds to catch and fling at Astra. Doesn't seem like the sort of building material you'd see on the higher floors of a skyscraper.
posted by jimw at 5:32 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just to the point with regards to Superman II -- I'm fairly certain Superman (and Lois) chuck all the unpowered Kryptonian villains into that presumably endless misty hole. As a kid, since we didn't see them hit bottom, nor did we hear that they'd hit the bottom, I just assumed it was some sort of unending hole... So by that logic (and, admittedly, it's my logic from childhood), none of them died in Superman II.
They were probably dead by Superman III or IV, though. ;)
Also wanted to chime in to say that I love that Cat Grant figured out about Kara what Lois rarely tends to figure out about Clark. (And I tend to really like the various incarnations of Lois!)
And as to the name thing -- I always thought Cat was saying Kara but like "care-uh", instead of how her name is typically pronounced, "kah-rah". I have definitely heard "Kiera" a couple of times of late, though.
posted by juliebug at 11:26 PM on December 17, 2015
They were probably dead by Superman III or IV, though. ;)
Also wanted to chime in to say that I love that Cat Grant figured out about Kara what Lois rarely tends to figure out about Clark. (And I tend to really like the various incarnations of Lois!)
And as to the name thing -- I always thought Cat was saying Kara but like "care-uh", instead of how her name is typically pronounced, "kah-rah". I have definitely heard "Kiera" a couple of times of late, though.
posted by juliebug at 11:26 PM on December 17, 2015
I've always bought that Superman wouldn't kill humans but it has never passed my suspension of disbelief that he will never any other beings at all, some of whom have power equal or greater than his own. It takes an incredible level of authorial fiat for that to be possible. If beings of equal or greater power than you are willing to kill you and you aren't willing to kill them if given no other option you will eventually lose. Only plot armor makes his position possible.
Which is why the ending to the latest Superman movie actually didn't bother me. Because I never bought that Superman could succeed under the traditional constraints. Sure, Superman might be able to beat Zod without killing. But how about the next one, or the next, or the next. Eventually the odds would catch up to him.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on December 18, 2015
Which is why the ending to the latest Superman movie actually didn't bother me. Because I never bought that Superman could succeed under the traditional constraints. Sure, Superman might be able to beat Zod without killing. But how about the next one, or the next, or the next. Eventually the odds would catch up to him.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on December 18, 2015
Ok, so this might be nothing, but... Cat's last name is Grant. She has a son whose last name is Foster. At the end of the episode Cat wasted wanted Kara to take off her glasses so she could see who she really was.
In the 1960s and 70s eyewear manufacturer Foster Grant had an ad campaign based on the slogan "Who's that behind those Foster Grants?"
Sadly I think about such things.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:04 PM on December 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
In the 1960s and 70s eyewear manufacturer Foster Grant had an ad campaign based on the slogan "Who's that behind those Foster Grants?"
Sadly I think about such things.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:04 PM on December 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
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Overall, I agree with the A.V. Club that this was uneven and the General Astra stuff works the worst. For whatever reason, I've never loved Kryptonian villains generally, and the stuff here felt like it needed another episode of setup before the big confrontation. I also found the Astra as ecoterrorist thing a little random and strange. If they had developed that more, then maybe I would care, but as it stands I don't feel like I get the betrayal that Kara felt nor do I feel like Astra is more complicated than she was before. It just feels like the grabbed it from a box labelled "Motivations."
Surprise of the half season for me: I don't hate Calista Flockhart. I kind of even like her. Her character is developing nicely and is much more interesting than the third generation Devil Wears Prada copy I was expecting. I also love that she figured out Kara's secret. I get that people being stupid about recognizing people in glasses is part of the superhero schtick, but I liked seeing that poked at a little bit.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:37 AM on December 15, 2015 [4 favorites]