The Expanse: Leviathan Wakes
February 3, 2016 5:03 AM - Season 1, Episode 10 - Subscribe

Events on Eros come to a head in the season finale.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich (84 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
 
I........
This.
Battlestar.
B5.

It's a holy Trinity of SF.
(also Firefly)

And, yeah, I buy Holden now.
posted by Mezentian at 6:06 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Bold to wait until the season finale to reveal your antagonists. I was hoping for a SLIGHTLY higher plot resolution:construction ratio, but I'll take it. I get that all shows can't Jessica Jones.

I liked Semi! Sad to see him capped just to answer the "is Amos still loyal" question. I did enjoy that Amos wasn't at all coy to Miller about what happened. I suppose this will set the two of them at odds for S2.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:04 AM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


And, yeah, I buy Holden now.

And that's the cuddly Amos book readers all know and love.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:28 AM on February 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think as long as Naomi stays alive, Amos remains a known quantity because he has Naomi's well-being for a weakness. Miller might try to exploit that weakness in S2, but if he does, he better come correct with it or not at all.

If Naomi dies, I have NO idea what Amos might do. Which is just as well, she's also one of my favorite characters.

There was enough humor in this finale to counterbalance some of the horror, which was nice. Between Amos' one-liners and Miller's copious vomiting/punching/stumbling, the tension stayed high but my hopes did, too. Without the humor, I might've had nightmares... the space zombie/radiation shelter scenes were really disturbing.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:34 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Things were really clicking for me, it's gonna be a long wait for season 2. As a book reader I was surprised by some of the changes they made, if I'm remembering the book right. But this isn't a books included thread so that's all I have to say about that.
posted by Green With You at 10:51 AM on February 3, 2016


Oh god. The vomit.

So. Much. Vomit.
posted by dazed_one at 10:52 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh god, I've been sold on Amos for a while, but this episode was just the best showcasing. I love that look in the shooting scene, where he's like, "Oh! Oh is that what we're doing? I thought we were having a discussion, but you just made this easy!"
posted by corb at 11:12 AM on February 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Amos is great! All of the cast is very good, though Alex is still a bit of a cipher. That's okay he was like that in the books too.

Am I misremembering or was there a lot more of an issue with SPACE ZOMBIES on Eros in the book? Rather than it all being the mercs and fake cops?
posted by Justinian at 11:46 AM on February 3, 2016


If you're misremembering, so is my husband who has also read the books, so I think you're probably right.

I really love how much of a shitkicker Alex is, though to be honest part of that is the casting. The actor plays it really, really well.

I'm not sure how I feel about Naomi/Holden having what looks like pre-romance (like seriously, was that looking like a kiss-during-radiation-treatment or what?) I don't know how it is in the books, but here it feels really underdeveloped, like they haven't had the time for that to seem really natural to me.
posted by corb at 11:49 AM on February 3, 2016


Also I'm not sure if this was technically in the first hour or the second hour, since I watched it together last night, but can I say how much I love Avarasala in this? The actress helps make it fantastic, but her look while she's out with her husband on the roof, where she has to come to terms with the fact that she hasn't been playing her A game and she has been letting her biases blind her, but she's tough and fierce enough that she will "continue playing" the person she has, up until about an hour ago, been?
posted by corb at 11:52 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


[Didn't read the book]

I enjoyed this double episode although there was way too much vomit, and I found it awfully convenient that the Rocinante has such amazing radiation drugs on board, but the fully-stocked medical cabinets on a station that has radiation shelters didn't.

- I liked the Julie Mao flashback. Tied everything together nicely.

- Holden going off on the spy seemed weird to me, I'm not sure he really knew he was the one who called the cavalry on them earlier so I'm not sure why he was so personally angry. But then again he was dying of radiation and probably insane.

- Otherwise, I liked Holden and Miller teaming up.

- I know everyone loves Amos, but just shooting Sammy when he threatened Naomi, rather than smacking him in the head and imprisoning him, seemed a bit insane.

- I didn't really like Avasarala until the scene on the roof. Now I'm sold.

As a non-reader the overall bad-guy plot is pretty bizarre. The UN (or factions on earth) have decided to take over the galaxy (?) and their methodology appears to be

(1) To secretly build some powerful stealth ships (makes sense)
(2) To fool Earth, Mars, and the Belt into going to war with each other (makes sense)
(3) To kill thousands of people on Eros in order to use them as food for a massive radiation-powered space squid (doesn't make much sense).

I just found the "big event" a bit hard to believe after the down-to-earth nature of the rest of the show.

Definitely the best SF on TV since Babylon 5. But I hate that I'll have to wait a year to see the rest...
posted by mmoncur at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I get the distinct impression that the logic behind unleashing the bioweapon-thingy is less of the "this will be a huge strategic advantage!" flavour and more of the "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh wgah'nagl fhtagn!" apocalypse-ushering cult mentality. That is to say, the people behind this seem to have more Cruz than Trump about them.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


and I found it awfully convenient that the Rocinante has such amazing radiation drugs on board, but the fully-stocked medical cabinets on a station that has radiation shelters didn't.

Well, the Roci was original the shuttle of the flagship of the leading technical military power whereas Eros seems to be worse than a shitty Shenzhen factory.
posted by MikeKD at 4:03 PM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


The Roci has such an advanced infirmary because it is a navy gunship that can also potentially support a Marine strike team, and must be able to treat any injuries resulting from space combat- ballistic trauma, decompression, and radiation exposure.

I feel like they've been under-playing Alex a bit, but the scene at the end where he breaks out of the mooring clamps was fantastic.

I'm finding the new, scary Amos intriguing, and would like to see more, as well as potentially subscribe to his newsletter.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:07 PM on February 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm not sure non-book readers realize how advanced and awesome the Roci is compared to most of the near garbage scows we see. It's like a bunch of nobodies from a beat up tramp steamer ended up through a series of unfortunate events as the sole crew of the US Navy's latest generation stealth frigate.
posted by Justinian at 4:19 PM on February 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


I know everyone loves Amos, but just shooting Sammy when he threatened Naomi, rather than smacking him in the head and imprisoning him, seemed a bit insane.

That's pretty much the point about Amos.

I came in here to talk about how much vomit....but that's been covered, so I'll just say that wow, they did such a good job of making this episode so, so affecting. The Julie scenes wrecked me, and the experiment scenes on Eros...jeebus.

Thomas Jane has never done better than this. Everyone is bringing their a game. I can wait for season 2, even though it's a long wait, if they keep to this level of quality. Damn. It's just SO good.
posted by biscotti at 5:24 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure non-book readers realize how advanced and awesome the Roci is compared to most of the near garbage scows we see. It's like a bunch of nobodies from a beat up tramp steamer ended up through a series of unfortunate events as the sole crew of the US Navy's latest generation stealth frigate.

Thanks, that helps. I was imagining that the crew's desperate attempt to get to the Roci (as opposed to one of the many other ships in the docks) was just because of familiarity / loyalty to their ship, rather than simply "it's the best ship".
posted by mmoncur at 6:42 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some more random notes:

- I'm really happy they didn't go full-on Space Zombies in this episode. It seemed to be heading that direction, and I'm glad they didn't, because it made the infected people seem like victims of a terrible massacre rather than B-movie monsters who we have to shoot when they're in our way.

- Speaking of The Walking Dead, I was SO HAPPY with the scene in "Critical Mass" where Miller and the Roci crew sat down and told each other in detail what they knew about the whole Julie Mao situation. Intelligent characters using communication and thinking to solve problems! This is what I've wished for in TWD for several seasons...

- I liked seeing François Chau as Mr. Mao and Brian George as Mr. Avasarala. They're both such common character actors that they were obvious choices, based on the ethnicities they were playing, but I didn't care because they're both really good actors who can create completely believable characters despite small amounts of screen time.

- In fact based on acting this is pretty much the best SF ever on TV -- even Babylon 5 and the best Star Trek variants had some weak actors, and I like everyone on this show. Combine that with the cinematography and effects, and SyFy has really reached a higher level of quality here than anything they've done before.
posted by mmoncur at 6:59 PM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm probably completely alone on this, but a small pet peeve I have that's a carry-over from the books is the similarity of the names Alex and Amos. In screenwriting, it's a good idea to stay away from names that start with the same letter, are the same length, and might have scenes together, as the screenplay format lines up character names at the same indentation on each page, so your eyes can get lost because of the repetition. It's not as bad in books, of course, but I have such an aversion to the name convention and such a bad memory overall that I'm constantly having to remind myself that Amos is the muscle guy. I think I finally got it on the season finale.
posted by bluecore at 8:18 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know everyone loves Amos, but just shooting Sammy when he threatened Naomi, rather than smacking him in the head and imprisoning him, seemed a bit insane.

Yeah, it's supposed to seem a little insane, because it seems insane to everyone else on the crew because it is just such a crazy escalation.

On the other hand, it makes PERFECT sense. Naomi and Alex are thinking: "He's never actually going to shoot us. This is just a heavy handed negotiation tactic." Amos is thinking: "He is pointing a loaded weapon at my loved one."

For Amos to be sure that Sammy doesn't get a shot off, he needs to incapacitate Sammy instantly, and anything other than lethal force would be taking an unnecessary risk.

In TV and movies, people often go for the knockout rather than the kill. And people often use pointing loaded weapons at people as, essentially, punctuation to their sentences. Sometimes it feels like Mexican stand-offs are the only appropriate time for real heart-to-hearts. But that's movie thinking, and Amos lives in the real world.
posted by 256 at 8:41 PM on February 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


"But that's movie thinking, and Amos lives in the real world."

Yeah. I have a bit of trouble with the idea that one character is operating according to the rules of reality and everyone else is mostly acting the way that people in genre do, but your basic point is correct. Sami pointing a gun at Naomi as a threat to get what he wants is way, way over the line. I don't see any reason why Amos should interpret that in any way other than that Sami has proven himself to be a lethal risk to the entire crew.

I suppose that since Sami wasn't watching Amos and was okay with Amos walking around behind him, you could make a strong case that someone like Amos with a lot of experience in hand-to-hand combat and grappling could have just come from behind and disabled Sami. In fact, that probably would have been safer to Naomi than what he did. But Amos's choice was very true to his character. Sami had proven himself to be dangerous and unreliable, so why not permanently take care of the problem?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:03 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I was sort of surprised that Holden and Miller didn't die after reaching the Rocinante. Clearly the tech saved them, but I was expecting them to get there to deliver what information they had gathered on their own, and then promptly decease, because while the tech level is pretty high, it seems like it would take a lot more than that to deal with radiation doses that kill you within a few hours.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:54 PM on February 3, 2016


It really just deals with the acute effects. It's a lifetime of maintenance anti-cancer meds for those guys.
posted by Justinian at 1:16 AM on February 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


I love the show guys, but I'm going to be the cranky one and say this two-part finale was a bit of a letdown for me. I think my complaint is mostly structural, they had to cram a whole lot of Big Plot into two hours and it was confusing.

I could barely followed Julie's backstory in the initial flashback, how does she keep jumping from ship to ship and what does the OPA have to do with anything? It wasn't until the reveal that her father is an Earther behind the medical experiment that I finally understood what the heck was going on. I also was pretty confused on what went down on Eros, it was all just sort of.. cramped storytelling. My memory from the book is the Eros lockdown was a much more tense and exciting action sequence, with a slow horror reveal of the purpose of the radiation shelters. Here it was like 3 minutes to "oh no space zombies".

Previous episodes had much less plot exposition to get through, which left space for all the indirect world building and character development that I really like. This episode felt like it was tripping over itself a bit to get the plot told.

Also Holden is really not doing it for me. He's so indecisive and wimpy. I'd much rather Naomi, or Miller, or even Amos or Alex were the one in charge. But maybe that's Holden's story, how he's not a natural leader but he has some ineffable quality that makes him the one who sets the universe in motion?

Speaking of Miller, Thomas Jane is hilarious in hamming it up playing hat cop. Absolutely love it. In my fantasy Transmetropolitan TV adaptation, Thomas Jane plays Spider Jerusalem.

And I second the continued enthusiasm for Avasarala. It's great to have a character as strong as her back on Earth keeping the wheels in motion. And those costumes, good lord, they are amazing.

So now The Conspiracy has been revealed. And there's some humans on Earth who for some reason want to set this Space Virus free and help it "learn", and Pierre Chang Jules-Pierre Mao is so committed to his cause that he sort of shrugs off his daughter dying for it? What was the original plan for getting the Space Virus to Eros, anyway? Julie randomly and heroically got to Eros unaware she was infected; but the bad guys had been setting up Eros for the infection for a year. Is that all just luck? And who all is in this conspiracy and how have they kept it so secret? (If you know the answer from the books, do not spoil it here. Personally, I'm in the weird position of having read the books but not remembering what happened!)
posted by Nelson at 6:57 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think the Anubis was bound for Eros from Phoebe when the Scopuli attacked it. I agree that it is very hard to keep track of which ship is which.

Are we supposed to know who the people who locked up Julie on the Anubis are? Do they work for her father? If so, and their goal was to stop the Scopuli from stopping the Anubis from delivering its cargo to Eros, why did they just leave it (the Anubis) out in space? I feel like I missed something in that whole encounter.
posted by enn at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Anubis was left out in space because the whatever got loose and they all died. I don't think that was part of the plan. Julie only survived a little longer because she was locked away from everyone else.

So original would have been: Defeat the Scopuli because they're a threat, frame Mars for both the Scopuli and the Canterbury. Proceed to Eros where they could do the same thing they did here, just with their samples neatly contained up to that point.

Also, the Scopuli didn't attack the Anubis - the Scopuli was about to attack a different ship when the Anubis showed up out of nowhere and kicked their ass. I don't know what happened to that other ship, that seems to be an open question.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 9:05 AM on February 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


The sense that I got, as a non-reader, is that the original plan was to steal the virus from Phoebe, that Mars had found the virus and were investigating it, thus the anger of the Mars crew about what happened on Phoebe. I think the conspiracy killed a lot of people getting it out of there. Then I think they were transporting the virus on the Anubis, but remember it took the doctor investigating to learn that it was transmitted through fluid? I think it's entirely possible someone on the Anubis touched it while it was in transit on Phoebe. We see from Julie that it has a lengthy incubation period, at least a few days, more likely weeks. So I think the plan was to transport the virus inert and bring it to Eros, then once the virus was safely there, kill a freighter to start squawking to a water freighter to make it look like Mars. My thought on why they want the war, right now, is that it makes any accusations Mars makes sound crazy and defensive. I don't think they expected to kickoff a belt rebellion. That's all the gruff leader of the OPA. I think he left Julie to die, so that she wouldn't be around to contradict the narrative.
posted by corb at 9:13 AM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks for trying to explain the story y'all. So there was a third ship in the Julie flashback, and I didn't just get confused by the SFX. So let me get this straight:
  1. Space Virus discovered or developed on Phoebe, the bad guys want to test it on people. They make plans to bring it to Eros.
  2. OPA and Julie Mao learn the Space Virus is going to be transported to Eros and charter the Scopuli to intercept it on its way from Phoebe.
  3. Scopuli detects a small vulnerable transport ship and prepare to attack it to steal the space virus.
  4. It's a trap! Anubis swoops in and boards Scopuli, killing all the OPA. That third transport ship disappears.
  5. Julie gets imprisoned on the Anubis. Somehow the Space Virus gets lose and kills everyone on the Anubis but Julie.
  6. Julie escapes her cell and steals the Anubis' shuttle and flies to Eros. Unfortunately she has been infected with the Space Virus.
  7. Conspiracy proceeds to test the Space Virus on Eros.
Is that the sequence of events in the TV show?

I'm also confused about the factional politics here. Phoebe is a Mars station, right, so the obvious assumption is the space virus is from the Martian faction, but we have reason to doubt it. Eros and Ceres are both Belter stations, and OPA and Fred Johnson are unambiguously Belters. The big mystery is the allegiance behind the Space Virus Conspiracy. We know Jules-Pierre Mao is a member; he's an Earther, right? (Or more specifically from Luna)? And someone behind the scenes is pulling strings to cause confusion to get Mars and Earth to start a war.
posted by Nelson at 9:32 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Huh, I thought the Scopuli initially misidentified the Anubis, rather than there being another ship. Maybe I need to rewatch.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:36 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I make it as:

1. Protomolecule (they called it that on the show) found or developed on Phoebe, Mao & co want to feed it a bunch of people and see what happens. This implies they don't know a lot about what it does, which leans more towards finding than developing. They're taking it to Eros because that's a convenient, contained population they don't care about.
2. Julie finds out about this and gets the OPA to send out a mission to intercept Anubis en route between Phoebe and Eros.
3. Scopuli sort of half-assedly detects Anubis and moves in, believing Anubis to be a simple transport that they can deal with easily.
4. It's a trap! Anubis is actually a super-badass stealth gunship! Oh the embarrassment. The tables are turned and the hunter becomes the hunted. All OPA but Julie get whacked.
5. Protomolecule gets loose and eats everyone on Anubis except for Julie.
6. Julie escapes in the shuttle, which can get to Eros, which makes sense because the rock they stopped at was more or less en route between Phoebe and Eros.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:48 AM on February 4, 2016 [13 favorites]


mmoncur: I enjoyed this double episode although there was way too much vomit, and I found it awfully convenient that the Rocinante has such amazing radiation drugs on board, but the fully-stocked medical cabinets on a station that has radiation shelters didn't.

TheWhiteSkull: The Roci has such an advanced infirmary because it is a navy gunship that can also potentially support a Marine strike team, and must be able to treat any injuries resulting from space combat- ballistic trauma, decompression, and radiation exposure.

To build on this a bit, as Justinian says, it's the latest generation of frigate.

Mars shipyards make advanced military spacecraft. The Roci is an MCRN Corvette Class, fast-attack light frigate. It is the smallest ship in their navy equipped with the advanced Epstein drive (a fusion drive,) which I don't think has even been given a name in the show yet. Ships of the Corvette class are used as torpedo bombers, and fleet escorts. They're powerful and state-of-the-art, and their med bays are very well-equipped.

Eros is a backwater and their hospital and infirmaries probably aren't as good as the Roci's.

That said, we didn't see Miller or Holden cured of their radiation exposure. We just saw them being treated.
posted by zarq at 9:57 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Amos shooting Miller's panicky friend was a very nice mirror of the moment with him set up in the airlock preparing for boarders, and Holden with a gun to his head. Paraphrased, his casual "you have a good angle and your shot, take it if you're going to" back then. Because of course when Amos is in Holden's position--in that good angle with a shot, he's not spending a single heartbeat on threatening and brandishing; he takes it, blam, done. Nicely done, show!
posted by Drastic at 10:10 AM on February 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm like Nelson and don't remember much at all from the book and so no book info is involved in my understanding of this -- I'm unclear on the Phoebe part of this. But, otherwise, ROU_Xenophobe's summary matches what I understand.

Notably, what I understood is that there wasn't another ship involved, just that Julie/OPA assumed that the Anubis would be something it wasn't -- and why would they think it would be warship? But that raises the question of why the conspiracy has these warships in the first place.

It's also not clear to me about how Julie's familial connections are involved in this. I don't remember from the books. It's conceivable that she already knew something about what was going on and then went to the OPA, or that after she had been working with the OPA, they used her family connections to get more information about it. It seems to me to be an unlikely coincidence if no one knew that her family's company was involved in this. And I don't recall anything from the scene in the episode, although maybe they mentioned something. What's most plausible to me is that Julie rebelled and went to the belt and got involved with the OPA and then after the OPA got some intelligence about this supposed bioweapon and that her family's company was involved, then used her explicitly for this purpose. That may not be what was in the books and may not be what the show intended, but that seems most plausible to me.

"That said, we didn't see Miller or Holden cured of their radiation exposure. We just saw them being treated."

I think the implied objection is that a dose that will cause death in a few hours would be too severe too effectively treat. But this is many years in the future.

If I recall correctly, what happens with acute radiation exposure, what is immediately life-threatening, is all the toxic byproducts and immune system response of the mass deaths of the cells directly affected. Treatment today is about doing everything possible to alleviate that. I can imagine a variety of future technologies that would be much more effective. But the number of cells that were so damaged that cell death was triggered is dwarfed by the number that had lesser damage including that which will lead to cancer, which is what eventually kills people with large enough radiation exposures who survive the initial acute stage. So that's a severe medium- to long-term problem that this treatment doesn't address.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:11 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was in the middle of writing a lengthy comment, but ROU_Xenophobe basically has it.

It's also worth noting that the Anubis is the same ship that blows up the Canterbury (and does so while Julie is locked in storage cell). At some point after the Cant is destroyed, the goo escapes containment. As far as I can tell, we don't know how that breach happened.
posted by 256 at 10:11 AM on February 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Re: the whole "cui bono" question around the virus, and starting an Earth/Mars war:

[potential spoiler]


There are very powerful non-state actors involved as well, some of whose interests do not necessarily align with the governments of Earth, Mars, or the OPA. Which figures represent those interests is left as an exercise for the viewer.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:12 AM on February 4, 2016


I'm also confused about the factional politics here. Phoebe is a Mars station, right, so the obvious assumption is the space virus is from the Martian faction, but we have reason to doubt it. Eros and Ceres are both Belter stations, and OPA and Fred Johnson are unambiguously Belters. The big mystery is the allegiance behind the Space Virus Conspiracy. We know Jules-Pierre Mao is a member; he's an Earther, right? (Or more specifically from Luna)? And someone behind the scenes is pulling strings to cause confusion to get Mars and Earth to start a war.

But it is clear that the Space Virus People are definitely the ones trying to start the war (the Anubis is their ship), and that they aren't in cahoots with the Martian government. Or at least that, if they are, Mars is going to great expense to cover that up, considering that the Space Virus People destroyed the Martian Flagship Donnager in episode 4. They also clearly aren't aligned with the OPA (or else Fred Johnson is pulling a ridiculously crazy Xanatos Gambit).

So, by process of elimination, they are either aligned with the Earth government (which gets some credence from Daddy Mao's presence at the UN talking to Avarasala's new Nemesis) or they are an entirely independent non-state actor.
posted by 256 at 10:20 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh and another important point about the factions: The OPA is not a state, it is an independence movement.

There are no "Belter Stations," though Tycho Station being OPA controlled is an open secret. Ceres and Eros are both Earth stations, populated almost entirely by people who have never been to Earth.
posted by 256 at 10:30 AM on February 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Folks, this is a NON-BOOK thread. Please stop referring to things you know from the books. Those of us who haven't read the books are enjoying speculating about where the show is going to go; we're not looking for you to answer, even enigmatically.
posted by Lexica at 10:36 AM on February 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


I don't think anything has actually been said that isn't straight from the show?
posted by 256 at 10:40 AM on February 4, 2016


"Folks, this is a NON-BOOK thread."

But it's not. We haven't been separating the posts and I think it's mostly worked out okay. Occasionally, a few people have mentioned things that are arguably spoilers, but what I've noticed is an attempt at a middle-ground, some book discussion but which avoids spoilers. I agree that a few of the book readers (those among us who actually recall this first book well) should try a bit harder to avoid spoilery stuff.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:53 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


But, yeah, I think that these series of comments don't contain any book information, even TheWhiteSkull's one where he said might be a spoiler.

Because we know via Avarasala that at the very least, if the UN is involved with this, it's very black ops and almost no one in the government knows about it. But, also, we know that a private company (Julie's father's company) is involved and, from what we've seen, none of those people seem to be UN military or anything. On the other hand, how did they get those fusion drives? So one of two things are true: either it's a UN black op that is using a corporation as a contractor/cut-out, or this corp is doing it on its own. I would read this as the latter being more likely because of what we've seen about how things actually work -- places like Ceres are nominally under UN control, but what we've seen is that it's all corporate-run, even the policing, and the only people off-Earth that we've seen so far that directly answer to the UN have been actual UN personnel. Otherwise, it's all more like, say, the East India Company.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:05 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


If I recall correctly, what happens with acute radiation exposure, what is immediately life-threatening, is all the toxic byproducts and immune system response of the mass deaths of the cells directly affected. Treatment today is about doing everything possible to alleviate that. I can imagine a variety of future technologies that would be much more effective. But the number of cells that were so damaged that cell death was triggered is dwarfed by the number that had lesser damage including that which will lead to cancer, which is what eventually kills people with large enough radiation exposures who survive the initial acute stage. So that's a severe medium- to long-term problem that this treatment doesn't address.

Again, all we know is that the show simply hasn't addressed it yet. You have no idea what will or will not be addressed next season. Their radiation poisoning wasn't simply handwaved away in the books. As you should be aware.

I cannot respond further to you without including spoilers for events that may or may not be included in the next season or two of the show. I do not feel comfortable ruining that for people participating in this thread, so will stop discussing their radiation poisoning here.
posted by zarq at 12:07 PM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Thanks Zarq. I feel strongly this discussion of the show should stay non-book. There have been too many bookish spoilers here already.
posted by Nelson at 12:08 PM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


No problem. Tbh, I felt weird even saying as much as I did.

I'm considering making a "With Books" thread that would cover the entire season. This way, we Belters Bookers could yak to our hearts content. :)
posted by zarq at 12:17 PM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


That would be cool. Like Ivan said, this isn't actually a non-books thread. But it's clear some people would prefer it to be so it might be helpful.
posted by Justinian at 12:47 PM on February 4, 2016


Okay. Full season thread with Books Included has been created.
posted by zarq at 1:00 PM on February 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Quoth 256, upthread: "At some point after the Cant is destroyed, the goo escapes containment. As far as I can tell, we don't know how that breach happened."

The civilian-type on the Anubis who instructed the military-types to confine Julie Mao was coughing and sneezing, complained about the heat, and demanded that the cooling be turned up. It was a pretty heavy-handed implication that she had come into contact with the protomolecule and was infected.
posted by prismatic7 at 4:45 PM on February 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


I also seem to remember one of the people who attacked the Donnager saying something along the lines of "I'll be dead soon anyway" when they were being questioned.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:03 PM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm fully willing to accept that this far in the future there would be drugs that deal with radiation exposure way better than what we have now, not to mention we don't have any idea exactly what dose and of what type of radiation they received.

So to me (no book reading) it's wide open, Holden and Miller could die at the beginning of next season, or they could be fully cured, or they could have recurring health issues and need regular drugs. Or they could need an expensive treatment that they have to go to Earth for. Anything is possible.

And thanks for taking the book spoilers off-thread. I'll probably lose my patience and read the books between now and Season 2, but for now I like avoiding the spoilers.
posted by mmoncur at 5:07 PM on February 4, 2016


Two OPA questions:
1) The trip through Eros's tunnels that Naomi was leading by looking for the OPA maps: Was that the first time she revealed she was in the OPA? Amos's look to me was "Really? Now you finally admit it. I wasn't sure."
2) Was this the first episode where it was said what OPA stands for (Outer Planetary Alliance)? Since they only gave its initials I thought it meant something in the Belter creole.
posted by ShooBoo at 9:05 PM on February 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


If I recall correctly, what happens with acute radiation exposure, what is immediately life-threatening, is all the toxic byproducts and immune system response of the mass deaths of the cells directly affected. Treatment today is about doing everything possible to alleviate that. I can imagine a variety of future technologies that would be much more effective. But the number of cells that were so damaged that cell death was triggered is dwarfed by the number that had lesser damage including that which will lead to cancer, which is what eventually kills people with large enough radiation exposures who survive the initial acute stage. So that's a severe medium- to long-term problem that this treatment doesn't address.

This is very helpful, thanks.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:37 PM on February 4, 2016


oh yeah, i fell in love with this show. so few of my friends watched it. glad for the banter, here. i haven't read the books but i don't mind spoilers at all and it's going to be hard to wait a whole year to see more of the story. i may have to jump over to the other thread at some point.

things that were interesting from the above discussion:

yes, the casting is perfect. i wasn't sure at first - both Holden and Naomi bugged me. but the show is a slow build, and patience was rewarded. the characters are beautifully complex and the actors really are delivering. i found myself deeply caring about all of them. completely invested.

Amos is perfect. his actions make total sense, even if they are unpredictable or difficult. i was sad to see Semi go, but if i were in the same situation? i woulda shot him, too.

i could watch every episode simply for Avarasala's wardrobe. GORGEOUS. the costuming is on-point for everyone, in every way. really well done.

really enjoying the special effects. Julie's death was really horrifying. (need to watch this on a better screen than my laptop!)

i am glad there were no vomit zombies, and agree that is intensifies the empathy for the victims to see their fate portrayed from a slight distance. however -

the vomit was awesome. one point where Miller pukes into his hands - i can't recall exactly what he said but it was brilliant timing of twisted humor and i laughed really hard, even while flinching.

i like that i can't tell if a major character will survive or not. the willingness to kill off characters is deployed with such precision and unpredictability that the suspense can be quite acute. and they COMMUNICATE INFO TO ONE ANOTHER - THIS. this is so good.

and now - two things not mentioned above, that i think worth noting:

loved the homage to Belmondo's trademark thumb-across-the-lips from "Breathless" that Thomas Jane does when he sees Julie in his vision. this series could so easily be derivative - it really does borrow quite liberally and boldly from a lot of sources - but it plays them so well that the tropes are a pleasure to spot, and the storyline stays fresh and inventive.

MORMONS... nobody here is talking about those Mormons! and their mission to head of into deep space in an ark?do they somehow know that there IS something out there? is it possible it is they, who are responsible for cultivating the protomolecule?

oh man it is gonna be a looong wait until season 2!
posted by lapolla at 2:12 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


could watch every episode simply for Avarasala's wardrobe. GORGEOUS. the costuming is on-point for everyone, in every way. really well done.

Bookwise, I always thought of her wearing more traditional saris and the like, but I have to admit, as far as I can tell she had taken traditional Indian clothing (which, to be fair, I am more familiar with from the walls of Indian restaurants) and kicked it into Tomorrowland. And now I am suddenly curious about the costuming choices in The Expanse, beyond the EarthGov uniforms.

She needs to crack more nuts, though.
In both senses of the word.


(What is with her voice, though? Is that the actress' natural voice? Is it an affection? And if so, why? Is there a reason for it if it's natural?)
posted by Mezentian at 5:12 AM on February 5, 2016


I was glad Amos shot Sami because I'm sick to death of scenes where our intrepid band of heroes clamber of countless bodies and horror only to let an existential threat to the group continue because they're a person goddamit.

Sami acted like he was willing to shoot someone else to save his skin so I'm with Amos on this one.

Plus, Amos is fucking awesome.
posted by fullerine at 6:40 AM on February 5, 2016 [6 favorites]


So: generally good. I enjoyed the whole season a lot, even if the last two episodes felt a little rushed. It seemed like there could have been either 2-3 more episodes to give more detail, or they could have used the 9th and 10th episode both on what was up on Eros station, and leave us with a cliffhanger of whether the crew will even make it to the Roci. Having to both bring forth the carnage and also escape the station all in one episode meant we didn't get to see much of it.

Amos continues to be quite interesting. Spy guy showing up was ... weird? I found myself wondering if he was still getting information back to earth, though I guess at this point it wouldn't matter. From the looks of it, his intel is going to the guy on earth who is already in bed with Jules-Pierre Mao.

Lastly, on a logistical note: I am someone who is very sympathetic to wanting a books-only post, but let's be clear that this is not one of those. None of the threads for this show have been tagged books included or show only in any way (this is a tagging option for the threads), and so I don't think you can fault people for not all being on the same page.

If there's a desire for show-only threads, when S2 comes around people need to post threads tagged as such. If that isn't done, I don't think you can reasonably expect that people are all going to know (or agree) to the unstated policies of the thread.
posted by tocts at 7:16 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


What is with her voice, though? Is that the actress' natural voice?

Seems to be. Quick googling turned up an interview with Craig Ferguson from 2013 where she sounded the same.

Is it an affection? And if so, why? Is there a reason for it if it's natural?

I expect it's just a combination of her accent (her native language is apparently Farsi) and that [drgirlfriend] some women just have particularly deep voices [/drgirlfriend].
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:25 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


Craig Ferguson from 2013 where she sounded the same.

To YouTube!

some women just have particularly deep voices

Not like that. Not "naturally". But.... huh. See below.

And the casting if an Iranian... seems odd for an Indian character.
But, it's all good.

And here's Craig! But, yep, that seems to be her vox.
posted by Mezentian at 7:53 AM on February 5, 2016


Yeah, there's nothing that's really weird about her voice, except that it's the wrong accent. She sounds just like any other Persian matriarch I've ever met. I think it's something about being in charge of a family and needing to have a voice with gravitas.
posted by corb at 8:06 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


The actress playing Avarasala is Shohreh Aghdashloo and yeah her accent is like that. She grew up in Iran, left there at age 27, which makes it a bit strange for her to be playing an Indian character but I'll forgive it because she's just so fantastic.

She's had an interesting career. One of her first big TV roles was a supporting actress in the fourth season of 24 where she's part of a terrorist family sleeper cell. Memory is hazy but I definitely recall her having a strong performance, and I think she got written a little more interesting than the usual 24 "terrorist we have to torture". She was also a supporting voice actor for Mass Effect 2, she plays a Quarian and her accent complements the facial mask vocal tic pretty well.
posted by Nelson at 8:10 AM on February 5, 2016 [4 favorites]


"That said, we didn't see Miller or Holden cured of their radiation exposure. We just saw them being treated."

Amos says something to the effect of "man you guys are FUCKED up, it keeps trying to switch into hospice mode!"
posted by emptythought at 9:20 PM on February 5, 2016 [8 favorites]


Spy guy showing up was ... weird? I found myself wondering if he was still getting information back to earth, though I guess at this point it wouldn't matter.

I took that as an indication that he'd be appearing in the future. The Space Squid seemed to be learning how to mimic his form before it ate him (?) so I wouldn't be surprised if he appears next season as "Manifestation of the Leviathan that it uses to communicate with humans."
posted by mmoncur at 9:36 PM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Folks, this is a NON-BOOK thread."

But it's not.


It is a NON-BOOK thread. Otherwise it would have included the tag "Books included." I have also asked in previous threads not to discuss the books. I'm glad there now is a thread to discuss the whole season with book spoilers but next season it would be a great idea to make separate threads , one with and one without book spoilers.
posted by Pendragon at 2:39 PM on February 7, 2016


No, it's not a non-book thread. You can tell by looking at the title, where you'll fail to find the "Show Only" tag.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:19 PM on February 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


I get that all shows can't Jessica Jones.

Oh, if only.

Holden going off on the spy seemed weird to me, I'm not sure he really knew he was the one who called the cavalry on them earlier so I'm not sure why he was so personally angry.

In the hotel scene, Amos drew on Spy Guy and shot at him before he ran off. When Spy Guy meets Holden later, he tries to pull a "hey, I was getting shot at, too, I'm on your side" routine. Yeah, Spy Guy, you got shot at... but not by the ambushers. Hella suspicious.

Definitely seconding what somebody said about the spy in a previous thread. I love the writing for him, the way he adapts to his situation and looks for any tiny thing he can use to twist things to his advantage. Didn't work out for him this time, though.

I love the show guys, but I'm going to be the cranky one and say this two-part finale was a bit of a letdown for me. I think my complaint is mostly structural, they had to cram a whole lot of Big Plot into two hours and it was confusing.

Completely agreed. And my personal crankiness extends not just to the finale but to this entire season. I mean, when the credits rolled at the end of this, my reaction was "Ok, time for the second half of the two-parter", not "Well, that was a good cliffhanger to end on".

I'm guessing the only reason this show didn't get a 23-episode season was the risk of ordering so much of what's probably a pretty expensive show? Because the narrative really shouldn't have been broken in half where it was otherwise.

But maybe that's Holden's story, how he's not a natural leader but he has some ineffable quality that makes him the one who sets the universe in motion?

Out of all the crew, Naomi feels like the natural leader of the bunch. That might just be the easy confidence that the actress is coming at the role with, though. From what I've read from book-readers in these threads, I take it that Holden's ineffable quality is that he's honest to a fault and insists on always doing the right thing. Maybe it just seems weird because modern TV leans so hard on having the Team Leader and the Moral Center as two separate characters -- all for the purpose of having a dramatic falling out when the bold, decisive alpha male does something morally compromising that ends up saving everyone's ass. (*cough*Lost, *cough*Walking Dead) Kinda glad that this show has avoided that trope so far.

i could watch every episode simply for Avarasala's wardrobe.

Agreed times infinity.

Maybe I should post this comment in the full-season thread, but eh.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:08 PM on February 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


ah, just re-watching, and what happens is, the Scopuli is tracking what it thinks is a light transport ship from phoebe that they will have no trouble boarding and stealing the cargo from. Then, just as they are about to make their move, the ship de-cloaks and reveals itself to be the gunship anubis, which proceeds to totally kick their butts, and take Julie prisoner.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:13 PM on February 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


If there's one thing I've learned from this show, it's never to say "Well, this should be easy" before doing anything.

Also, dig the throwaway bit of physical business in the tunnels. Naomi picks up a handful of dust and lets it spill out, watching the particles as they fall -- and from strenght and direction of the coriolis forces that make the dust spin in little circles, she figures out where they are.
posted by Mogur at 3:20 AM on February 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Yeah, that was a nice touch. At first, I though she was checking for air currents, per the standard trope, so the coriolis effect on the dust was slightly surprising in that "oh, right, they're on a tiny-ass rock" way.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:28 AM on February 8, 2016


No, it's not a non-book thread. You can tell by looking at the title, where you'll fail to find the "Show Only" tag.

This is just so wrong, I don't know where to begin.

Look at the Fanfare FAQ:


What's the policy on spoilers in threads at FanFare?

We'd like the front page of FanFare to be spoiler-free, so please limit above-the-fold descriptions of a show to the basics. Inside threads, feel free to discuss any plot point in that episode or past episodes, but please refrain from discussing events that take place in future episodes. Also, please be considerate and refrain from discussing future events from other book/film/tv/comic versions of the story. (Note, this policy is different in threads that are labeled "Rewatch" or "Books Included.")


That there are special tags for when people want to post specific threads for book and non-book readers changes nothing about the previous statement NOT to discuss events from other book/film/tv/comic versions of the story in threads without the tags.
posted by Pendragon at 1:15 PM on February 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


"This is just so wrong, I don't know where to begin."

No, it's totally, completely, unambiguously right. That FAQ entry explains that discussion of future events is prohibited -- it's right there in the bit that you quoted and bolded. It doesn't say that "book discussion" is prohibited.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if it weren't the case that the actual comment of mine you were responding to, and from which you quoted, explicitly distinguished between spoilers and book discussion without spoilers -- a comment to which you responded that this is a "NON-BOOKS thread", while mentioning that you've repeatedly objected to discussion of the books. It's as if you are willfully and tendentiously equating any and all discussion of the books with spoilers, which is the only possible way that an unmarked thread and a "Show Only" thread could functionally be equivalent. But they are not equivalent.

All three possibilities serve different purposes; they're each useful. The unmarked thread allows for the largest possible readership, sans spoilers, albeit at the cost of making it easier (or more tempting) for people to cross that line. You may not be comfortable with this, just as some book readers may not be comfortable avoiding spoilers. In each case, there's another kind of post which you or anyone could make to satisfy that preference.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:28 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


BTW, in re-reading some of the earlier comments, I was once again puzzled by zarq's response to my comment, which I began with this sentence:

"If I recall correctly, what happens with acute radiation exposure, what is immediately life-threatening, is all the toxic byproducts and immune system response of the mass deaths of the cells directly affected."

...which I just now realized might have been mistakenly interpreted as referring to my recollection of the books, rather than my recollection of acute radiation syndrome. If so, that's a pretty natural mistake for anyone to make, because why would you think I'd have random knowledge of ARS? But I've a long interest in criticality accidents and some other cases of radiation poisoning and of course it makes perfect sense to me that I'd be writing off-the-cuff about what I recall. (In fact, right now on my Kindle I don't have the Expanse books, but I do have James Mahaffey's excellent, Atomic Accidents: A History of Nuclear Meltdowns and Disasters.)

Anyway, my comment on its own isn't spoilery -- I wrote it carefully to avoid spoilers and intended to satisfy only the complaint that it doesn't make sense that a (future) medical technology could treat them after such a severe exposure and thus avoid the predicted death-within-hours.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:28 PM on February 8, 2016


Yeah, maybe my comment was a bit aggressive in tone. It was not meant that way, and it wasn't directly aimed at you Ivan Fyodorovich, more at TheWhiteSkull's comment about powerful non-state actors .
posted by Pendragon at 2:32 AM on February 9, 2016


I don't mean to be a dick, and this is a show that demands a lot of attention and not in an entirely good way, but even though TheWhiteSkull's comment says "potential spoiler" I don't think there's anything in it that you can't get out of the show. I mean, it's sort of refreshing to see a show with so little hand-holding of the audience, but it definitely seems to be in the "You've got to watch it more than once and be paying solid attention every time to catch everything" camp.

We know that it ain't Mars, because Avasarala walks us through knowing it ain't Mars, and the Martian government is unlikely to blow up its own flagship. And we know it isn't Earth, or at least all of Earth, because Avasarala is an important player in Terran government and has no idea what's going on. We can be pretty sure that it isn't what passes for an OPA government, because Fred Johnson and Anderson Dawes are investigating it.

And we know that it started with research on Phoebe, which we know is owned by Mars. And we know the drives on the stealth ships were from Terran shipyards, and that Avasarala's boss Errinwright seems to be part of whatever's going on.

So if it ain't Earth, but also sort of is Earth, and it ain't Mars, but also sort of is Mars, and it ain't the OPA, that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for anything but non-state actors. And they must be well-connected non-state actors if they can hide the drives and turn Errinwright, or subvert an expensive Martian installation, or, hell, build expensive stealth ships. And then in the episode itself we learn that Jules-Pierre Mao, owner of a ginormous company that does shit in space, is giving the order to start the experiment on Eros. So what the show has told us, pretty directly, no spoilers required, is that what's going on is either a corporate conspiracy a la Weyland-Yutani or an X-Files style public/private partnership conspiracy. At most, thewhiteskull's potential-spoiler tag just validates what the show is trying but not entirely succeeding do make clear.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [13 favorites]


Thanks, Pendragon, I appreciate that and I apologize for my tone being a bit snarky, too.

I agree with ROU_Xenophobe's comment -- I can't recall seeing but maybe one or two actual spoilers in these threads.

However, I am not unsympathetic to Pendragon's and other people's complaint. I mean, I am unsympathetic insofar as I think that the unmarked thread is a middle-ground that is preferable in some cases and that's why when I posted any of these threads, I've continued to leave them unmarked. But, that said, this middle-ground does allow for ambiguity about what is and isn't a spoiler -- we had a lot of such arguments back in the original GoT threads.

The fundamental problem is that when book readers are discussing the books, the people who haven't read the books have no good way of knowing what kind of discussion is spoilery and what kind is solely limited to close watching or speculation. If you know that someone is a book reader, then it's hard to tell how careful they are being. And if you're a book reader, you can still be pretty diligent about limiting yourself to what's available on the show and yet still signal what's going to happen by how you write about events and what you include and don't include. So even in the absence of any actual spoilers, non book readers can still be left with a sense of what's going to happen.

But, of course, that's why we have the "Show Only" option and anyone who is uncomfortable with book discussion in an unmarked thread can create their own "Show Only" post. Meanwhile, any book readers who don't want to be limited in this way, can create "Books Included" posts.

It should also be mentioned that you can and should flag spoilers, although it might be hard for the mods to determine what is and isn't a spoiler if there's ambiguity and they aren't familiar with the source material.

I like the middle-ground discussion because it's the discussion that allows the largest possible participation. "Show Only" discussion doesn't allow for anything other than rare and passing mention of the books and so non-spoilery discussion about something like, say, pacing or how a character is different isn't allowed and that is interesting discussion. It's even interesting to me when I'm not a book reader. But some people who aren't familiar with the source material find such discussion at best superfluous and at worst an annoying distraction and so a "Show Only" thread is a better fit for them. Also the "Books Included" threads allow spoilers. When the adaptation is from a series of books, it's not necessarily the case that someone who wants to discuss the books is someone who has read all the books and can't be spoiled. There've been a number of people in these threads who have mentioned they only read the first book or even only part of the first book, so it's nice to have a thread where book discussion is allowed, but where spoilers are not.

Anyway, I agree with ROU_Xenophobe that some of the inherent tensions with the unmarked threads is heightened with The Expanse because the show has been relatively dense and opaque and expects the audience to pay very close attention, more than most shows do. It's very easy to miss stuff and then to think that book readers are spoiling the discussion when they actually are not.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:48 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Game of Thrones threads are posted twice. Once as Show Only and another as Books Included. This helps eliminate confusion and allows everyone to have the experience they would like on Fanfare.

When I did the Game of Thrones First Watch threads, I would post them and then my first comment said: "This is a First Watch with Books thread. Please do not reveal spoilers for subsequent episodes from any source."

In theory, future show threads could be posted the same way. If people were interested. A 'Show Only' thread, and then also a 'Books Included' thread with a first comment request that people not post anything that could spoil future episodes.
posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on February 9, 2016


"A 'Show Only' thread, and then also a 'Books Included' thread with a first comment request that people not post anything that could spoil future episodes."

No, you couldn't make an actual, marked "Books Included" thread which disallows spoilers because spoilers are explicitly allowed for "Books Included" threads.

Your GoT posts were "First Watch" posts, which are kind of a special circumstance, but are equivalent to the unmarked posts like these have been -- source material discussion is allowed, but spoilers are not. Those rules are already explicitly defined for unmarked threads, as the FAQ quote demonstrates. (Theoretically, "First Watch" threads aren't mutually exclusive of "Show Only" and "Books Included" threads, even though the options on the form work that way, but I'm not sure that this has ever been an issue in practice. Has anyone ever wanted "First Watch" + "Show Only" / "Books Included"? I can imagine that someone might want those kinds of threads, but it's already the case that adapted shows that hew closely to the source material are rare enough that we've not actually had that many examples of the more general cases. So old shows that are close adaptations and someone wants special conditions seems like a very edge case.)

I think that it's most important -- even though it seems obvious -- that spoilers are only ever allowed in "Books Included" or "Rewatch" threads. Otherwise, they are always prohibited and rude. But, also, discussion of source material is allowed in all threads with the exception of "Show Only" threads -- that seems to be unclear to some people.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:07 PM on February 9, 2016


For what it's worth, I'm a non-book reader and I haven't minded the from-the-book discussions here. And if we had a "Show Only" thread I think some of the episode threads would have just been me talking to myself.
posted by mmoncur at 6:15 PM on February 9, 2016 [4 favorites]


Likewise. I'm moderately spoiler-averse, but didn't notice anything in these threads I thought was too spoilery (and in at least one case, a tiny bit of mild spoilage kept me from wasting time with unpleasantly pointless speculation.) Could be I'm not paying enough attention or could be that excessive spoilers got deleted.

I figure I'll get around to reading the first book soon anyway.
posted by asperity at 10:23 PM on February 9, 2016


I'm interested in reading the books but I like watching the show without knowing what will happen. I'll wait until y'all tell me they've finished the first book.
posted by bq at 10:36 PM on February 9, 2016


season/book thread link for slow persons, such as me
posted by mwhybark at 11:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Just popping in to say all of Season 1 is now streaming on Amazon Prime Video in the USA.
posted by seasparrow at 11:44 PM on December 21, 2016


"You've got to watch it more than once and be paying solid attention every time to catch everything" camp.

So true, this. I have watched most of the episodes twice (the show is up to S2E6 or 7 now), and I jumped in to read this discussion because on second viewing of this episode tonight holy moly there were so many scenes that matter, that spell things out, that I missed or could only understand with the context given by later episodes.

I am enjoying this series immensely.
posted by zippy at 10:05 PM on March 12, 2017


I just started and finished this season this past week. I was jonesing for more sci-fi with Discovery being on hiatus and Netflix kept on recommending that I watch this. I really enjoyed the whole season! Slow burn in a good way. Reminded me a lot of Battlestar Galactica in all the right ways, so I'm keen to get into the next season soon.
posted by liquorice at 7:28 PM on November 19, 2017


I’m super behind but I just want to say - the only thing that bugs me is that the audiobooks pronounce it “Roe-see” and the show says “Raw-see.” I prefer the former.

That’s a fairly minor complaint for the whole first season.
posted by greermahoney at 9:56 PM on April 21, 2019


is the similarity of the names Alex and Amos.

Whoo boy do I agree with you there. It doesn’t help that Amos seems more of a cowboy name to me, so I immediately think Alex’s character is Amos, and then I have to reverse it once I remember.
posted by greermahoney at 11:11 PM on April 21, 2019


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