The Walking Dead: The Same Boat
March 13, 2016 9:38 PM - Season 6, Episode 13 - Subscribe

With no hope of safety in Alexandria, Rick and his band of survivors soon discover a larger world with new dangers and opportunities.
posted by DirtyOldTown (45 comments total)
 
Overcome with pity for people underestimating Carol.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:50 PM on March 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Literally pausing my viewing to jot down how fucking terrible this dialog is. Like, I will be looking up who the writer was, terrible. I have to wonder if the writer has met a woman before? It honestly reads like Eugene wrote it.
posted by Iteki at 10:02 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Well, there goes my question about whether or not Alicia Witt will be joining the cast long-term.
posted by The Gooch at 10:23 PM on March 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


This episode is a prime example of "know the plot instantly" I've ever seen.
posted by juiceCake at 10:48 PM on March 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


And you knew the plot of Titanic before ever stepping in the theater. This was about how it unfolded more than any suspense about whether they'd both survive.
posted by scalefree at 11:44 PM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I will grant that. The whole time I was in suspense about how Carol was going to get them out of this. And it turns out Maggie was just as much a part of it as Carol was.

What a dark place for both of them.

Also, what's up with that description? I'm sure it probably came from AMC, but it really implies that they are leaving Alexandria for good. (Not that I think that's what's going to happen or anything.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:17 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


And you knew the plot of Titanic before ever stepping in the theater. This was about how it unfolded more than any suspense about whether they'd both survive.

Never saw the Titanic but yes, historical dramas often do end in a similar way to history. I, personally, am not a must have a plot I don't know guy. I'm more into the execution of the plot, known or unknown. The execution of this one was ridiculous, boring, and uninteresting. Of course, even though it really doesn't need to be said, this is Metafilter, so you're mileage may vary as may your opinion. I am in no way implying, assuming, or insisting that my viewpoint is either unique or universal.
posted by juiceCake at 6:35 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I liked it. It was uncomfortable. It was unclear what Carol was doing, and the situation was somber enough that I felt like they could kill Carol if they wanted, or kill Maggie if they wanted. They being the show. I also liked how it played into the dilemma between killing and not killing that Morgan has experienced, even if it showed cracks in the hardened Rambo survivor space Carol had carved out.

I also liked the dialogue. I liked the smoking lady and the different representations of women. I liked the one character saying men can't handle pain. I liked the whole 3 pots thing, even if it was kind of ham fisted. I liked that Carol and Maggie rescued themselves. I liked the way Carol tried to let the lady go, and was so annoyed she wouldn't just run off, all the while Maggie turned ruthless. It wasn't a perfect episode but it beat watching Rick Eastwood his way through another episode with Daryl and Abraham sidekickin. I'm actually kind of getting sick of all the shoot-em-ups and could use a more mental episode. This one will have to do until then.
posted by cashman at 6:47 AM on March 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Also, what's up with that description? I'm sure it probably came from AMC, but it really implies that they are leaving Alexandria for good. (Not that I think that's what's going to happen or anything.)


That was the description that came up on an episode tracking app I use. I fully agree it is vague and bordering on misleading to the point of being near meaningless. But as spoiler-averse as viewers of TWD are, that seemed a virtue, honestly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:48 AM on March 14, 2016


You know, I was kidding in this comment last week, but it turns out it would have been a reasonable thing to say.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:55 AM on March 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ugh I've always loved Alicia Witt, what a bummer that she won't be recurring.

I guess this is what passes for a feminist episode of the WD? I actually liked it, although obviously my standards are low by now. I liked that Carol acted weaker than she is but showed the toll its taking, and that Maggie acted exactly as strong as she is but also showed the toll. The dialogue didn't bother me any more than usual. I thought the main point of showing how these women have been changed and what they must do to survive was accomplished. I liked that it showed women with agency instead of women as victims in a rape hospital or whatever. Id much rather see these three Savior women than 3 more testosteroney Rick wannabes. Smokey was 1 dimensional but I thought the other two were compelling (again, I'm going by WD standards here).
posted by gatorae at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


No spoilers here, really, but it feels like the show is emphasizing even more than the comic book did that however horrible the Saviors are, it will not be hard to understand how Negan can feel Rick and company more or less brought his antagonism on themselves.

At this point, they've blown up one of his teams on the road with an RPG, murdered an entire encampment (mostly in their sleep), killed the stragglers from that camp, burned alive the rescue team sent to save them, and shot the lone survivor in the face.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:12 AM on March 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


As horrible and morally questionable as was killing the people in their sleep last week, shooting the prisoner in the head at the end of this episode might even be worse. He posed zero threat to them. While there aren't exactly prison facilities (well, not until Morgan is done with his construction, but they don't know about that yet), that was nothing more than cold blooded murder. Worse, the guy might have eventually given some useful Intel.
posted by 2ht at 8:36 AM on March 14, 2016


He posed zero threat to them.

Well I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't have had much problem with them giving him the Jesus treatment with loose tying of his hands with enough time for them to get away....but then we see how that worked out with Jesus don't we. And with all the rest of his group having been killed by Rick's group, and the type of person they had him seem to be, even if it was for all of 30 seconds of screentime - well that's not zero threat.

While there aren't exactly prison facilities (well, not until Morgan is done with his construction, but they don't know about that yet)

Neither does the audience. All that was on the broadcast as far as I remember, was morgan welding something out of view. The audience doesn't know what that is. I don't know what that is.
posted by cashman at 9:26 AM on March 14, 2016


It's pretty clear from the brief glimpse we got that it's a jail cell. Add in Morgan's personal experience with being in a cell, his attempt at locking up the wolf, and his desire to not kill people...
posted by 2ht at 9:40 AM on March 14, 2016


Oh we can guess all we want, but it isn't pretty clear. All you can see is steel bars. Anyway, I don't like that they shot and killed the guy. I wish the show would drift back toward prisoner issues, but not those. I'd like to see them affected more by the world as it is. They have the issues with crops and food and that is what spurred this run. But having Rick and Daryl not really care when they lost that truck of food didn't help me understand their group was on the verge of starvation. Especially when none of them instantly give off a sickly look. I liked that whatever her name was who was leading the group started talking about her emails, because I often wonder just what state computers and the internet were at when everything went bad. (And since Fear the Walking Dead is such a weak show)

I'm done with them finding new, heretofore undiscovered people every other week.
posted by cashman at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Worse, the guy might have eventually given some useful Intel.

That whole scene just sums up why Rick is such a terrible leader. Eliminating your only source of info was a particularly dumb thing to do, even by Rick's standards. And, Polly was right: Rick's group was right outside the door! "Man of his word" for sure.

Melissa McBride was amazing in this episode. You could see Carol's realization that she is looking at her future self writ plain on her face. It's one of the more frustrating things about this show - the actors are just so much better than the material.
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:24 PM on March 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Could they not send Jesus into the plant to ninja his way in and set the prisoners free?
I had fun watching this one. I loved Melissa McBride's performance. When she braces herself to talk on the walkie talkie, the anguish on her face was remarkable. And I think she kind of pursed her lips when she did an imitation of Alicia's Witt's voice. Or she did something to her face that made me think she was physically and vocally imitating Alicia. Loved it. And the Darryl Carol hug at the end!!! D'awww come here, Carol. Loved that too!
posted by areaperson at 12:47 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Could they not send Jesus into the plant to ninja his way in and set the prisoners free?

Jesus ignored her prayers.
posted by FallowKing at 1:13 PM on March 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


All you can see is steel bars.

That's not all you can see. You can also see cinderblock construction.
posted by larrybob at 1:38 PM on March 14, 2016


No spoilers here, really, but it feels like the show is emphasizing even more than the comic book did that however horrible the Saviors are, it will not be hard to understand how Negan can feel Rick and company more or less brought his antagonism on themselves.

So, wait, Negan's still one guy? Then what's this whole "We're all Negan" thing?

Also, the Saviours did start it all, both with their attempted motorcycle hijacking or Abraham, Sasha and Daryl, and their extortion of the Jesus-freaks.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:47 PM on March 14, 2016


Eliminating your only source of info was a particularly dumb thing to do, even by Rick's standards.

I dunno, Rick just saw a great example of what can happen when you leave pissed-off prisoners alive. Even a tied-up, "terrified" middle-aged woman and a tied-up pregnant lady. Even for barely half an hour! I wouldn't be taking any prisoners myself at this point.

And I thought it was pretty obvious that guy wasn't going to be giving them any intel short of torture, which... I really don't put past Rick, and really don't need to see.

Darryl hugging Carol was sweet.

I actually liked this one - surprising, since I went into it with a sense of looming dread.

(...actually, that's how I go into all of these...)
posted by kythuen at 3:56 PM on March 14, 2016


I like Alicia Witt, too, but the character wasn't convincing for me. She was written to be, I understand what they were aiming for, but I think the characterization needed to be of a more obviously brittle personality. Also -- and I could be wrong about this -- but the character would have been a bit more convincing if she had been more suspicious of Carol at first and only later accepting that she was "weak". The point was she would see in Carol the person within herself she didn't want to be and therefore blinded to who Carol really was -- or, alternatively, that she would see something actually true underneath both the performance and the hard shell to someone that didn't actually want to kill people, and therefore also be contemptuous of Carol (especially because maybe she doesn't really want to kill people, either) -- but, either way, the writing + the acting didn't sell any of that to me. Ironically, the character Witt played in one season of Justify is someone who I would have believed this of. That's probably partly why they cast Witt in this. Ah, well.

About fifteen minutes into the episode I found I was really hating it. I, too, think the dialogue was bad.

I do think that Negan's crew (or "Negan" or whatever) aren't "the good guys" and are villainous, but I'm not really seeing Rick's crew as the good guys, either. I feel like I want to say about Rick's gang what I said last year about Rick: if the show had the courage to actually make them the obvious bad guys compared to some obviously more decent people, it would be a much more interesting show. They're really close, because they've been making a case for a long time that good guys die in the zombie apocalypse and so the audience is going to be on Rick's crew's side, regardless. But they mostly only flirt with these guys being villainous -- Rick, occasionally, Carol, occasionally -- but keep giving us examples of lots of the other folk i the group being pretty good. So, really, they may be killers, but compared to every group they've been in conflict with, they've been unambiguously morally "good". And that isn't that plausible -- who they are now could easily have been drawn into a conflict with who they were four seasons ago.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


juiceCake: "This episode is a prime example of 'know the plot instantly' I've ever seen."

You, uh, knew instantly that Carol wasn't acting when she acted terrified and scared? Because that was a surprise to me.
posted by koeselitz at 9:27 PM on March 14, 2016


You, uh, knew instantly that Carol wasn't acting when she acted terrified and scared?

Well, playing the meek housewife is kind of her go-to move. It's exactly what she did when they got to Alexandria.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:37 PM on March 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Exactly. That's why it was surprising to find out that she wasn't acting this time. That was always an act for her before. This time, she meant it. She was legit terrified.
posted by koeselitz at 9:39 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Well, playing the meek housewife is kind of her go-to move. It's exactly what she did when they got to Alexandria."

But his point was that to some degree, she wasn't acting. I mean, she wasn't afraid and upset about what she seemed to be afraid and upset about, but she was afraid and upset. But I am not surprised that some people didn't quite get that, because I think the show didn't do a very good job with this. They did kind of set things up beforehand, and it makes sense, but to me it still came almost out of nowhere.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:41 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Carol: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking relishing my role as the dark angel of annihilation."
posted by koeselitz at 9:44 PM on March 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


This time, she meant it. She was legit terrified.

No, that was an act. She wasn't scared of being held hostage, or of dying. She was reluctant to kill - if anything, she was scared of being forced to kill again. And like the best liars, she infused her lies with parts of the truth. Essentially, she's having a crisis of confidence.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:47 PM on March 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Yeah, but - I guess I appreciated this episode more than others. I did like the reversal; I was expecting Carol to turn around and kill everyone, but she really clearly didn't want to do it this time. I think everyone watching is hoping for a repeat of the Terminus Carol-kicking-ass party, but that's not what we got, and that's an interesting character development at least. But then I'm one of the weird ones who often prefers Morgan to Carol, and wants to see her learn some things.

DirtyOldTown: "No spoilers here, really, but it feels like the show is emphasizing even more than the comic book did that however horrible the Saviors are, it will not be hard to understand how Negan can feel Rick and company more or less brought his antagonism on themselves."

I have to say that I've been enjoying the apparent differences between the books and the show, mostly because I read the first volume of the Walking Dead comic book and it was absolutely one of the worst comic books I've ever read - terrible plotting, meager art, weak characters, and just generally not fun to read - so I dropped it and never read any further. The show was actually not that great early on, either. I've always wondered if the books got better as they went on, but it seems like it would be surprising if it got better in the same way as the show. Do the later books get any better than the first ones?

Anyway, glad there's an interesting wrinkle in Negan not turning out to be any one person.
posted by koeselitz at 9:53 PM on March 14, 2016


Why did Carol get close to the woman she eventually killed? She, and Maggie, must have known better.
posted by rdr at 5:53 AM on March 15, 2016


All this "I am Negan" crap is just going to turn out to be dumb Spartacus-inspired proto-fascist sloganeering. There'll be a guy named Negan running the whole show, and they're all proclaiming their true-blue Neganite loyalty. Next season during the big final showdown,* they'll kill off a main-cast-person, and then Rick/Michonne/whoever will shout "I AM MAGGIE" or whatever while machine-gunning the real Negan.


*Right, like they'll even get that far next season... Christ, remember the farmhouse?
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:55 AM on March 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Christ, remember the farmhouse?


Remember Terminus?
Remember The Wolves?
Tons of build up, fast and complete resolution.

I'm betting on Neagan dying in the season finale or the first episode of the new season.
posted by FallowKing at 10:59 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've always wondered if the books got better as they went on, but it seems like it would be surprising if it got better in the same way as the show. Do the later books get any better than the first ones?

No, they get more and more self-indulgent and everything you didn't like about Volume 1 gets turned up to 11. Also, you can no longer tell the characters apart because Charlie Adlard cannot draw people to save his life.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:41 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The dialogue went to the "bitch" well so many times that I suspect that The Walking Dead may have added Scary Terry to the writing staff, but I was otherwise pretty happy with the episode. The terrible dialogue was mostly overcome by some very strong acting and some fun set pieces of ridiculous violence.

I am finding it difficult to take the Negan gang seriously. First encounter, they jump Darryl, Sasha and Abraham; Darryl wipes them out, easily, by himself. Second encounter, the Grimes gang kills a dozen or so of them without much difficulty. Third encounter, Carol and Maggie go from being captured and bound to killing six Negans in short order.

At this point, Gabriel (GABRIEL!!!) has killed more members of the Negan gang than the entire Negan gang combined has killed Alexandrites. When you're less effective than that guy, maybe it's time to consider the possibility that you're not very good at your job.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:18 PM on March 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


One more point on the "The Walking Dead doesn't know Catholicism from Protestantism (seriously guys it's not hard)" front: A rosary is not an accessory of "evangelicals."
posted by Sys Rq at 12:21 PM on March 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I have to wonder if the writer has met a woman before? It honestly reads like Eugene wrote it.

You know, I never really get this (and not just for this show but entertainment in general). It has never been that obvious to me that dialog spoken by a woman would never be in real life. Maybe I'm just clueless but I never did get this.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:27 PM on March 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


OK, sure, I read the comics, so I (might)* know spoilers.

But honestly, given some of the guesses folks have on what might happen on this show, I wonder if they read the internet. Kidding aside, the casting news and announcements for some of the stuff coming up are pervasive and that has got to be hard to avoid. I salute you for pulling it off.

I am glad there is still room in this spoilerrific culture for folks to be surprised. I will try to keep my mouth shut as well as I can to respect that.

*Usually not as many as I would imagine, though, because this show is peculiar in both how it sticks with its continuity and regularly changes the holy shit out of major plot points. Nothing is really a given.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:49 PM on March 15, 2016


given some of the guesses folks have on what might happen on this show, I wonder if they read the internet. Kidding aside, the casting news and announcements for some of the stuff coming up are pervasive and that has got to be hard to avoid

I put zero effort into avoiding spoilers (and yet I manage to avoid them). I guess I'm not a "fan" in the modern sense of the term: I don't read pop-culture sites, and wouldn't recognize actors' names even if I somehow came across them. FanFare is my one and only source of TWD news. I can't imagine I'm that unusual.

I find it hard to feel strongly about this episode, one way or the other. This is the second week in a row that I've totally spaced on a new TWD episode, so...maybe I'm finally getting bored with it?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:34 PM on March 15, 2016


I kind of liked this one! More than any of the others since before the dumpster-diving bullshit, at any rate.

But the central meta-tragedy of TWD is that any interesting new character on the show is either marching in lockstep with the Ricktatorship or dead within an episode or two. In this case, it was dead.

I guess this is what passes for a feminist episode of the WD?

Heh, as they said, indeed. I mean, I liked that stuff. I really liked it. I'd love to see more of it. But TWD has very much made itself about a bad dude we're supposed to think is a good dude who kills "worse" dudes because he knows what's right for everybody around him. So instead of this being the baseline, it's the bright shining exception.

That said...

As horrible and morally questionable as was killing the people in their sleep last week, shooting the prisoner in the head at the end of this episode might even be worse.

They were hired by Gregory to kill Negan, the prisoner guy said he was Negan, ergo Rick shot him. He doesn't know about the "We Are All Negan" nonsense, so it kind of makes sense by Rick-logic. Would have made more sense to bring him back to Hilltop first to confirm that he was actually Negan, but whatever. People aren't that smart on this show. They're not even smart enough to get a super basic physical description of people they're hired to kill.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:55 PM on March 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


People aren't that smart on this show.

I'd say Rick was fairly genre-savvy. Virtually everyone who has ever been taken prisoner on this show has managed to escape, usually while killing a handful of captors in the process, within a couple of episodes. I'm generally on Team Morgan, but eventually even I'd recognize that the fundamental laws of the universe have changed in such a way that no one can possibly be held captive for any considerable length of time.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:12 PM on March 15, 2016


This one was better than all of the previous episodes in this season combined, but only in the way being kicked up the date is better than being kicked in the scrotum. We are precisely no further along any particular arc other than "Carol feels conflicted" - the reasoning for which I am at an absolute loss to explain, seeing as she was basically the human equivalent of a Bolt Thrower album less than 24 hours ago in show time. But she made cookies, so there's that.

It really feels like the plot wheels are just constantly spinning, spinning, spinning and not advancing anywhere. The show is stultifyingly boring when the Ricktatorship stops in one place (The Hated Farm, The Miserable Prison, The Rape Hospital, any given five minutes in The Gated Community of Mind Numbing Idiocy) but given it's also stultifyingly boring when they trudge aimlessly in circles through miles of swampy forest, I don't know what the solve is. Perhaps worldbuilding that isn't "society is fucked, you all need guns, women belong in the kitchen". I mean, how implausible would it be to find a military survivor who can provide backstory? Or a settlement where the people aren't wall-eyed psychopaths or pants-wetting imbeciles? Five seasons of descent into post-traumatic stress is getting a bit wearying. Yes, we get that Rick is utterly shattered by his experiences, but either offer some damn hope or blow his gurning face off. Never have I hated Andrew Lincoln so much, and I watched This Life ffs...
posted by prismatic7 at 10:18 PM on March 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh, we'll meet the Wolves again, don't worry. They still have to explain how the cheesemaker figured out the connection from the Wolves to the guy they met at the CDC building at the end of the first season, because the whole reason Morgan even had the Governor build Terminus was as a kind of Kobayashi Maru, to evaluate Carol, right?
posted by Rat Spatula at 11:23 AM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just watched this episode last night. I enjoyed it for the Carol stuff only.

We saw her in a previous episode struggling with how many people she's killed. The group has settled down a bit, and she's had time to not be the dark angel of annihilation. She's been filling that time with cookie baking and self-reflection.

Remember how upset she was about Maggie coming along on the mission? And then how she wouldn't stay behind when things went south with the mission? She thought she knew who she was and who Maggie was, and the reality was contradicting her beliefs.

Essentially, she's having a crisis of confidence.

Actually, I don't think it's a crisis of confidence at all, more like a crisis of identity.

You could see Carol's realization that she is looking at her future self writ plain on her face.

It's not the future-Carol she's seeing there, it's present-Carol. She saw herself in the Alicia Witt character and she realized that what she was seeing in AWc is what everyone else saw when they looked at her (Carol). And she doesn't like that person one bit.

I can't wait to see where this takes her.
posted by MsVader at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have an idea where it is going to take her and I'm not too keen about it.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:42 PM on March 29, 2016


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