The Flash: The Race of His Life
May 24, 2016 7:46 PM - Season 2, Episode 23 - Subscribe
After Zoom reveals his true plan, Barry vows to do whatever it takes to stop him.
Barry wastes time screaming when he should be running to save his father.
F---ing time travel again.
Season 1: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents
Season 2: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents
Season 3: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents???
Barry risks destroying the multiverse by racing zoom.
Barry: I want to kill and torture zoom
Joe: Think about what you’re saying.
Barry: *thinks* It seems reasonable, he’s trying to destroy the multiverse and he recently killed my father. Killing him seems like the best thing to do right now, regardless of my emotional state.
Maybe use that dart gun on Zoom? If it works on Barry it should work on zoom if you use it properly. Oh. You’re actually going to do that. Never mind.
Why don’t those jail cells have locks?... Not just anyone should be able to open them
This acting at the race is terrible...
Barry ‘Jesus’ Allen sacrifices himself.
And Barry again puts the world/timeline in jeopardy for selfish reasons. The time masters should have a word with him.
Barry wastes time screaming when he should be running to save his father.
F---ing time travel again.
Season 1: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents
Season 2: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents
Season 3: An evil speedster kills one of Barry’s parents???
Barry risks destroying the multiverse by racing zoom.
Barry: I want to kill and torture zoom
Joe: Think about what you’re saying.
Barry: *thinks* It seems reasonable, he’s trying to destroy the multiverse and he recently killed my father. Killing him seems like the best thing to do right now, regardless of my emotional state.
Maybe use that dart gun on Zoom? If it works on Barry it should work on zoom if you use it properly. Oh. You’re actually going to do that. Never mind.
Why don’t those jail cells have locks?... Not just anyone should be able to open them
This acting at the race is terrible...
Barry ‘Jesus’ Allen sacrifices himself.
And Barry again puts the world/timeline in jeopardy for selfish reasons. The time masters should have a word with him.
Gah, that made so little sense, I don't even know where to start.
So over in Legends it was established that Rip can't prevent his family from dying and Sara can't prevent Laurel from getting killed but here Barry can keep his mom alive, at least during this rescue attempt.
So suddenly Barry has compunctions about killing somebody, even though Zoom is the biggest bad Team Flash has ever faced? So it was perfectly find to kill off all those other meta humans (or at best let them die) in previous episodes, but killing Zoom would be a big no-no that would stain Barry's immortal soul.
So if the Time Wraiths didn't like Zoom from monkeying with the timeline and playing havoc with the multiverse, what makes Barry think they won't have issues with him rewriting history yet again?
So why can't Cisco get Earth-3 Jay back home? If he can vibe to Earth-2, he should be able to do the same to Earth-3. And how does Harry expect to be able to accomplish what Cisco can't, especially if Earth-1 is the nexus point to all the other Earths, it should be easier to use this Earth as a departure point rather than buzzing off to a location.
So did that spotlight in the trees during the Barry and Iris romantic interlude annoy everybody or was it just me? I won't even go into their declaration of love because that's just a relationship that really needs to not happen. Although I guess if time has been changed and Barry grows up with his real parents, then he and Iris won't be siblings (or sibling-like) and the writers will have no excuses to keep the relationship from happening...Yuck. I don't care, I still don't like them as a couple.
Okay, it was nice to see John Wesley Shipp back in a Flash suit, although I'm really going to miss Teddy Sears next season. I won't say I'll miss Harrison Wells because I'm sure they'll find a way to bring the character back.
Here's hoping the writers and producers find their way again next season. This season was a bumpy, off-road misadventure, and I'm kind of glad it's over. Of course it has left a big enough mess that I'm not sure they'll be able to fix the problems without contaminating next season's timeline.
posted by sardonyx at 8:58 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
So over in Legends it was established that Rip can't prevent his family from dying and Sara can't prevent Laurel from getting killed but here Barry can keep his mom alive, at least during this rescue attempt.
So suddenly Barry has compunctions about killing somebody, even though Zoom is the biggest bad Team Flash has ever faced? So it was perfectly find to kill off all those other meta humans (or at best let them die) in previous episodes, but killing Zoom would be a big no-no that would stain Barry's immortal soul.
So if the Time Wraiths didn't like Zoom from monkeying with the timeline and playing havoc with the multiverse, what makes Barry think they won't have issues with him rewriting history yet again?
So why can't Cisco get Earth-3 Jay back home? If he can vibe to Earth-2, he should be able to do the same to Earth-3. And how does Harry expect to be able to accomplish what Cisco can't, especially if Earth-1 is the nexus point to all the other Earths, it should be easier to use this Earth as a departure point rather than buzzing off to a location.
So did that spotlight in the trees during the Barry and Iris romantic interlude annoy everybody or was it just me? I won't even go into their declaration of love because that's just a relationship that really needs to not happen. Although I guess if time has been changed and Barry grows up with his real parents, then he and Iris won't be siblings (or sibling-like) and the writers will have no excuses to keep the relationship from happening...Yuck. I don't care, I still don't like them as a couple.
Okay, it was nice to see John Wesley Shipp back in a Flash suit, although I'm really going to miss Teddy Sears next season. I won't say I'll miss Harrison Wells because I'm sure they'll find a way to bring the character back.
Here's hoping the writers and producers find their way again next season. This season was a bumpy, off-road misadventure, and I'm kind of glad it's over. Of course it has left a big enough mess that I'm not sure they'll be able to fix the problems without contaminating next season's timeline.
posted by sardonyx at 8:58 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, and how the heck did Wally figure out where the cells where, let alone how to operate them? Yes, I know he's going to be an engineer, so he's automatically genius, but come on.
posted by sardonyx at 8:59 PM on May 24, 2016
posted by sardonyx at 8:59 PM on May 24, 2016
Oh, and maybe it's just my interpretation, but I assumed that after he became one with the Speed Force Barry ended up faster than Zoom, but if that's the case why can't he open up interdimensional breaches the same way Zoom could? Did he just not try hard enough or does he just assume he can't?
Okay, I'll stop posting now. I've vented and feel much better, even if I'm sure a dozen other issues will pop up to bug me.
posted by sardonyx at 9:04 PM on May 24, 2016
Okay, I'll stop posting now. I've vented and feel much better, even if I'm sure a dozen other issues will pop up to bug me.
posted by sardonyx at 9:04 PM on May 24, 2016
So suddenly Barry has compunctions about killing somebody, even though Zoom is the biggest bad Team Flash has ever faced?
Killing is wrong when you're doing it for revenge or to save infinite lives, it's only right when you're shattering lava-men or let distressed victims exhaust themselves to death because they wanted to not die.
And Joe shot at Wells-2 when he saw him for the first time... No hesitation.
what makes Barry think they won't have issues with him rewriting history yet again?
They will. That will be the season opener. See Doctor Who, Fathers Day. I think they're going to copy it. They have everything they need to set it up.
Barry's mother dies. Remember when he went back in time to save her the first time, another (real time fragment) Barry told him to stay. That's how it's set in the timeline. (And that was when they were still attempting to keep logic in time travel)
I'm really going to miss Teddy Sears next season.
No you aren't. Kaitlin is still having zoom PTSD flashes, PLUS he didn't actually die, he was time wraithed away. No one ever dies. Remember that time when Henry died? He was back by the end of the episode.
h, and how the heck did Wally figure out where the cells where, let alone how to operate them?
I assume it was marked on the map that was posted next to the big flashing "Welcome!" sign.
posted by FallowKing at 9:16 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Killing is wrong when you're doing it for revenge or to save infinite lives, it's only right when you're shattering lava-men or let distressed victims exhaust themselves to death because they wanted to not die.
And Joe shot at Wells-2 when he saw him for the first time... No hesitation.
what makes Barry think they won't have issues with him rewriting history yet again?
They will. That will be the season opener. See Doctor Who, Fathers Day. I think they're going to copy it. They have everything they need to set it up.
Barry's mother dies. Remember when he went back in time to save her the first time, another (real time fragment) Barry told him to stay. That's how it's set in the timeline. (And that was when they were still attempting to keep logic in time travel)
I'm really going to miss Teddy Sears next season.
No you aren't. Kaitlin is still having zoom PTSD flashes, PLUS he didn't actually die, he was time wraithed away. No one ever dies. Remember that time when Henry died? He was back by the end of the episode.
h, and how the heck did Wally figure out where the cells where, let alone how to operate them?
I assume it was marked on the map that was posted next to the big flashing "Welcome!" sign.
posted by FallowKing at 9:16 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I will say I liked the time remnant's sacrifice, although I thought Team Flash's "aw shucks" moment of mourning was a little weird, maybe to the point of them just not getting that this was Barry who literally died. That may be a bit existentially heavy for our heroes, but I would have expected them to shake off the implications rather than just fail to grasp them at all.
I'll be surprised if the status quo isn't restored almost immediately next season -- how could the three (!) other shows go on as normal otherwise? But the damage is done regardless. Barry just seems mind-bogglingly stupid at this point, so much so that it's hurting the character. He's so prone to bad decision-making that it's like he needs one of those musclebound dudes who follow rehabbed celebrities everywhere and keep them from doing drugs or starting fights. Barry needs someone to tase him any time he...wants to do anything spontaneous. Ever.
Oh, well. I'm hoping Wells and Jessie live happily ever, and that we're soon joined by Earth-3 Wells and Jessie. If we could have a new set of Wellses every season...
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:23 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'll be surprised if the status quo isn't restored almost immediately next season -- how could the three (!) other shows go on as normal otherwise? But the damage is done regardless. Barry just seems mind-bogglingly stupid at this point, so much so that it's hurting the character. He's so prone to bad decision-making that it's like he needs one of those musclebound dudes who follow rehabbed celebrities everywhere and keep them from doing drugs or starting fights. Barry needs someone to tase him any time he...wants to do anything spontaneous. Ever.
Oh, well. I'm hoping Wells and Jessie live happily ever, and that we're soon joined by Earth-3 Wells and Jessie. If we could have a new set of Wellses every season...
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:23 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had to give you a favorite for that Welcome sign comment. Seriously, they may as just run tours though STAR Labs for all the security pretense. "Now, if you look on right left you'll see the super-secret cells where we torture people by not giving them access to washroom facilities. As you exit on your left, you'll be in the giftshop where you can purchase from our never-ending supply of STAR Labs sweatshirts."
I hope you're right about Sears, not because I want to see his "death" (or whatever we're calling it) erased, but because I've come to like the actor. I was going to say that the Earth-1 Jay Garrick doppelganger (did we figure out what Zoom's real name was--if we did, I'm blanking) didn't seem to have any potential to join the team, but if history has been rewritten, I guess there is a way to bring Earth-1 Jay into the story.
posted by sardonyx at 9:24 PM on May 24, 2016
I hope you're right about Sears, not because I want to see his "death" (or whatever we're calling it) erased, but because I've come to like the actor. I was going to say that the Earth-1 Jay Garrick doppelganger (did we figure out what Zoom's real name was--if we did, I'm blanking) didn't seem to have any potential to join the team, but if history has been rewritten, I guess there is a way to bring Earth-1 Jay into the story.
posted by sardonyx at 9:24 PM on May 24, 2016
A brief synopsis of this episode:
Wells: "Okay, Zoom wants to race you because you'd actually be powering up a doomsday device that will destroy the entire multiverse. It's not actually about winning or losing the race at all, merely racing against him will DESTROY THE MULTIVERSE."
Barry: "Well, there's only one thing to do then. I've gotta race Zoom. And win."
Me: ARGH WTF
Team: "NO."
[Team does the smart thing, locks Barry the F up because he's acting dumb as a stump. NB: this is the high point of the episode.]
[Way earlier in the season, the team successfully trapped Zoom on Earth 2 and then sealed all the breaches, then felt bad about trapping him on Earth 2 where he'd wreak havoc, also, surprise, turns out he can just open breaches and so wasn't really trapped. The writers forgot all of that, apparently, so the team decides to trap Zoom on Earth 2 and seal all the breaches...basically the same exact plan again, with minor variations, and it works, except a gun jam means they lose Joe]
[Wally freaks out about Joe, lets Barry out of the box.]
Barry: "Well, there's only one thing to do then. I've gotta race Zoom. And win."
Team, suffering collective amnesia: "Yeah okay."
Me: ARGH WTF NO ARGH WTF
[Barry watches time wraiths annihilate Zoom for all of Zoom's timeline alteration shenanigans]
Barry: "Okay, how do I celebrate my 30 consecutive seconds of not being a dumbass allowing me to defeat the season villain? Oh, I know, how about the MOTHER OF ALL TIMELINE ALTERATION SHENANIGANS?"
Look, at this point I'm not even mad. Hitting the big old Time Travel COMPLETE RESET button is probably a good thing, here. I just hope that next season the writers will make an actual effort to read their plots and make sure they actually make some goddamn sense before they film them. I really do like all of the actors on this show and I have to credit their performances for making even nonsense like this still pretty fun to watch most of the time, but man it is unfair to them to force them to construct compelling character motivations and arcs out of such sloppy, haphazard writing.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:31 PM on May 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Wells: "Okay, Zoom wants to race you because you'd actually be powering up a doomsday device that will destroy the entire multiverse. It's not actually about winning or losing the race at all, merely racing against him will DESTROY THE MULTIVERSE."
Barry: "Well, there's only one thing to do then. I've gotta race Zoom. And win."
Me: ARGH WTF
Team: "NO."
[Team does the smart thing, locks Barry the F up because he's acting dumb as a stump. NB: this is the high point of the episode.]
[Way earlier in the season, the team successfully trapped Zoom on Earth 2 and then sealed all the breaches, then felt bad about trapping him on Earth 2 where he'd wreak havoc, also, surprise, turns out he can just open breaches and so wasn't really trapped. The writers forgot all of that, apparently, so the team decides to trap Zoom on Earth 2 and seal all the breaches...basically the same exact plan again, with minor variations, and it works, except a gun jam means they lose Joe]
[Wally freaks out about Joe, lets Barry out of the box.]
Barry: "Well, there's only one thing to do then. I've gotta race Zoom. And win."
Team, suffering collective amnesia: "Yeah okay."
Me: ARGH WTF NO ARGH WTF
[Barry watches time wraiths annihilate Zoom for all of Zoom's timeline alteration shenanigans]
Barry: "Okay, how do I celebrate my 30 consecutive seconds of not being a dumbass allowing me to defeat the season villain? Oh, I know, how about the MOTHER OF ALL TIMELINE ALTERATION SHENANIGANS?"
Look, at this point I'm not even mad. Hitting the big old Time Travel COMPLETE RESET button is probably a good thing, here. I just hope that next season the writers will make an actual effort to read their plots and make sure they actually make some goddamn sense before they film them. I really do like all of the actors on this show and I have to credit their performances for making even nonsense like this still pretty fun to watch most of the time, but man it is unfair to them to force them to construct compelling character motivations and arcs out of such sloppy, haphazard writing.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:31 PM on May 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was going to say that the Earth-1 Jay Garrick doppelganger (did we figure out what Zoom's real name was--if we did, I'm blanking) didn't seem to have any potential to join the team, but if history has been rewritten, I guess there is a way to bring Earth-1 Jay into the story.
Both Earth-1 and Earth-2 versions' real names were Hunter Zolomon. That was the clue that let them figure out Zoom's whole tragic backstory.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:34 PM on May 24, 2016
Both Earth-1 and Earth-2 versions' real names were Hunter Zolomon. That was the clue that let them figure out Zoom's whole tragic backstory.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:34 PM on May 24, 2016
Ah, you're right. I forgot that Zoom admitted that. I guess that part of my memory was erased by the changes to the timeline.
posted by sardonyx at 9:36 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 9:36 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
he was time wraithed away
And he looked awfully familiar while that was happening, too.
I'll save trying to make the ending make sense in light of the existence of the Time Masters and the events of all the other shows for another day. I'm just relieved the whole thing is over. The Zoom story was twisty and convoluted, and not in the fun, Silver Age, make-it-up-as-we-go-along way. I found it a bit of a slog for the past few weeks.
posted by MrBadExample at 9:36 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
And he looked awfully familiar while that was happening, too.
I'll save trying to make the ending make sense in light of the existence of the Time Masters and the events of all the other shows for another day. I'm just relieved the whole thing is over. The Zoom story was twisty and convoluted, and not in the fun, Silver Age, make-it-up-as-we-go-along way. I found it a bit of a slog for the past few weeks.
posted by MrBadExample at 9:36 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Let's also look at how The Flash beat Zoom. By punching him. Not by weakening him, No outsmarting, no technology, just punching.
posted by FallowKing at 9:54 PM on May 24, 2016
posted by FallowKing at 9:54 PM on May 24, 2016
It's hard for me not to read going to FLASHPOINT -- as they seemed to be setting up all last season, only to inexplicably chicken out in the finale -- as a tacit concession that overall this season was a disaster best left forgotten. I would expect most of what we've seen this year, sans Wally, to be quickly pushed off to the side even after the timeline is mostly restored next year.
As stated upthread they've really hurt the Barry character with so much selfishness and impulsivity. For at least the third time now he's elected to change the timeline -- and thereby kill all his friends, replacing them with duplicates! -- with no justification other than his own rage.
posted by gerryblog at 10:43 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
As stated upthread they've really hurt the Barry character with so much selfishness and impulsivity. For at least the third time now he's elected to change the timeline -- and thereby kill all his friends, replacing them with duplicates! -- with no justification other than his own rage.
posted by gerryblog at 10:43 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, its definitely setting up a FLASHPOINT situation. Honestly I liked Flashpoint as a Elseworlds/What If kind of thing but I am not watching Flash for that kind of fanservice bullshit, with evil Wonder Woman, Evil Aquaman, crazy baby superman, Thomas Wayne shooting people, etc. I've liked how the CW shows play fast and loose with comics references though and believe that they could possibly use that as a fun set up for the 3rd season. The problem is that Flash has trouble with the season long arcs and the last few eps were a slog, as stated up-thread.
Interesting that Arrow always nails the last few episodes and focuses the shows strengths, while mid season Arrow episodes fucking drag. Mid Season Flash is the best, though. I'm honestly worried about how producing 4 shows a week will effect the CW/Berlanti verse. I think the weak point is in the writing staff. The actors are all good to great to totally amazing, the directing is functional to great, the effects are phenomenal. They're making really good shows. But the writing has really felt stretched thin this season, what with the 4 shows from the same production company.
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:07 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Interesting that Arrow always nails the last few episodes and focuses the shows strengths, while mid season Arrow episodes fucking drag. Mid Season Flash is the best, though. I'm honestly worried about how producing 4 shows a week will effect the CW/Berlanti verse. I think the weak point is in the writing staff. The actors are all good to great to totally amazing, the directing is functional to great, the effects are phenomenal. They're making really good shows. But the writing has really felt stretched thin this season, what with the 4 shows from the same production company.
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:07 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought that was at least fun nonsense instead of the dour slog the show had been since the Zoom reveal. Barry pulling the time-remnant trick was nice, and even if it made no sense for the remnant to run himself to dust, it did allow for an homage to the character's finest hour (that involves running really fast in a circle).
Also, bad decision or not, I totally buy Barry saying "fuck the world, I'm saving my mother" in the aftermath of that shitshow of a day.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:43 AM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, bad decision or not, I totally buy Barry saying "fuck the world, I'm saving my mother" in the aftermath of that shitshow of a day.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:43 AM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
After this finale and the recent shield finale, I think I might be burnt to on superhero tv shows for a while.
I think both shows suffered from having too many episodes and the writers not paying enough attention to their own plot and/or previous world building.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:16 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think both shows suffered from having too many episodes and the writers not paying enough attention to their own plot and/or previous world building.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:16 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Earth-2 Flash looks like a gruff old dude who means what he says and punches bad guys. Can we just get a show with him instead?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:06 AM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:06 AM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Earth 3 in the comics is where everyone is a villain and Lex Luthor was the only hero. Do we think this is forshadowing, or are they simply letting Earth - 3 be something different here?
It was nice seeing the golden age Mercury hat being worn again.
posted by wittgenstein at 7:17 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was nice seeing the golden age Mercury hat being worn again.
posted by wittgenstein at 7:17 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
It almost has to be something different. I would like to think even this show is smarter than to literally do the same story three seasons in a row.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:39 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:39 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
So anyway, here's what I think happens: Barry, now himself a time remnant, runs back to the present and only then realizes he's a time remnant (because this would never occur to him). In a sad creepy stalker Superman Returns way, he observes the changes he has wrought. Everything is better, except that RetconBarry is a gigantic asshole to everybody. If he somehow has his powers, he isn't a villain, per se; he's an obnoxious blowhard. Like Spider-Man if Uncle Ben hadn't been killed. Barry, being Barry, maybe even abducts RetconBarry and takes his place, but there is no hope -- the time-wraiths set out not to kill Barry, but to lay waste to this whole stupid timeline he's made. Earth-1 itself is going to be destroyed. Barry appeals to the Speed Force. The Speed Force is all, "You know what to do, jackass." So Barry goes to Earth-2 and finds Wells, Jessie and Jay, and they all slap together some goofy Dr. Who contrivance to fix everything that mostly involves Barry and Jay running really fast and yelling. Everything is fixed, but there's some weird glitch that maybe resurrects a good guy (Eddie!), maybe resurrects a bad guy (please, please not Eobard Thawne), or possibly gives everyone freaky snake tongues.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:06 AM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:06 AM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Kittensforbreakfast I like your version of the show, how can we make that happen forthwith?
I especially like the idea of bringing Eddie back because then the Barry/Iris Romance can go DIE IN A FIRE which is where it belongs. That horse is well and truly flogged.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:12 AM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I especially like the idea of bringing Eddie back because then the Barry/Iris Romance can go DIE IN A FIRE which is where it belongs. That horse is well and truly flogged.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:12 AM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Look, if Grodd and the armies of Earth-2 Gorilla City aren't going to be the main villains of a season then what are they even doing.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:16 AM on May 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:16 AM on May 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
I was actually happy with them hitting the reset button again - Barry not saving his mother last time around never made sense to me, and I think it would be interesting to see what the whole West/Allen family dynamics could be without anybody dead or imprisoned. And I was worrying how they'd contrive to get the Wells back next season with them having gone back to Earth-2, but who knows what incarnation Tom Cavanaugh will get to be next season in this new timeline.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:18 AM on May 25, 2016
posted by oh yeah! at 9:18 AM on May 25, 2016
I'm totally on board for a different alternate-timeline Harrison Wells every year - next year we'll presumably meet non-Thawne Earth-1 Wells at last, but then we could have a Wells who's leading a resistance against the Nazis who won World War II, the fearsome pirate captain "Cutthroat Harry" Wells, a Legion of Superheroes member....
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Thank you for calling the Speed Force Assistance Program. Please state the nature of your emergency. In the event-"
"Help! There's a guy here with a bomb that can blow up reality!"
"...have you tried running real fast?"
"No.."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, it worked. The bomb de-exploded. I think."
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"There's a crazy giant shark monster here!"
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"Uh.. no.. for some reason."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, it worked. The shark guy fell over due to his stubbly legs and I-"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"Well, there's this mentor figure I met a few months ago who seems like a nice guy but has started acting sort of shifty.."
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"I don't see how that can help."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, uh, well I started running real fast and he started running real fast too and we fought and ran some more and I guess he's gone now?"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"My sister wants to make out with me and I sort of want to make out with her and that's kind of not on, right?"
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"I don't see how that can help."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Wow, uh, actually that sort of worked. I ran real fast and went back in time and saved my mom so I didn't have to be adopted and she's not my sister anymore so tha-"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"Uh. No actually. Thanks."
"Thank you for calling the Speed Force Assistance Program. Have a nice day. In the event of a problem that cannot be solved by running real fast, please press 1 to exit this automated help menu and speak with the next available Speed Force operator."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:23 PM on May 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
"Help! There's a guy here with a bomb that can blow up reality!"
"...have you tried running real fast?"
"No.."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, it worked. The bomb de-exploded. I think."
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"There's a crazy giant shark monster here!"
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"Uh.. no.. for some reason."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, it worked. The shark guy fell over due to his stubbly legs and I-"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"Well, there's this mentor figure I met a few months ago who seems like a nice guy but has started acting sort of shifty.."
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"I don't see how that can help."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Okay, uh, well I started running real fast and he started running real fast too and we fought and ran some more and I guess he's gone now?"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"My sister wants to make out with me and I sort of want to make out with her and that's kind of not on, right?"
"Have you tried running real fast?"
"I don't see how that can help."
"Please try. I'll hold."
"... ... Wow, uh, actually that sort of worked. I ran real fast and went back in time and saved my mom so I didn't have to be adopted and she's not my sister anymore so tha-"
"That's good to hear. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
"Uh. No actually. Thanks."
"Thank you for calling the Speed Force Assistance Program. Have a nice day. In the event of a problem that cannot be solved by running real fast, please press 1 to exit this automated help menu and speak with the next available Speed Force operator."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:23 PM on May 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
"I was actually happy with them hitting the reset button again - Barry not saving his mother last time around never made sense to me, and I think it would be interesting to see what the whole West/Allen family dynamics could be without anybody dead or imprisoned."
Yeah, despite all the stupidity with other stuff, and that it's a terribly idea on Barry's part, for the show itself I kinda like the idea of Barry saving his mom and making everything different as a result. I guess people are almost certainly right that things will be (quickly?) put back to normal, but what I'd really like is if they weren't and we (the audience) had to deal with all new versions of people. I think that would be really interesting. I guess I have to acknowledge that this would be a much more adventurous and interesting show than this actual show is and that would never happen and what will actually happen will be dumb and boring and annoying. I'm now convinced that they're firmly entrenched on this Barry+Iris thing and that this -- the romance itself and the fact that the writers are dead-set on making it happen -- represents the core of what's wrong with this show. Which really makes me sad because there's so much I still like about the show and I used to really like it quite a lot.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:27 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, despite all the stupidity with other stuff, and that it's a terribly idea on Barry's part, for the show itself I kinda like the idea of Barry saving his mom and making everything different as a result. I guess people are almost certainly right that things will be (quickly?) put back to normal, but what I'd really like is if they weren't and we (the audience) had to deal with all new versions of people. I think that would be really interesting. I guess I have to acknowledge that this would be a much more adventurous and interesting show than this actual show is and that would never happen and what will actually happen will be dumb and boring and annoying. I'm now convinced that they're firmly entrenched on this Barry+Iris thing and that this -- the romance itself and the fact that the writers are dead-set on making it happen -- represents the core of what's wrong with this show. Which really makes me sad because there's so much I still like about the show and I used to really like it quite a lot.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:27 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I kind of want to go back and time and prevent myself from watching this.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:20 PM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:20 PM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish, I have mixed feelings about your idea. On the one hand, a parade of multiversal Harrison Wellseseses, each one crazier than the last, would be awesome. On the other hand, Hilarious Dick Harrison Wells is the best Harrison Wells.
posted by MrBadExample at 5:21 PM on May 25, 2016
posted by MrBadExample at 5:21 PM on May 25, 2016
Argh, why the fuck is Barry so willing to play by Zoom's rules?
I might be done with this show now. It's gotten too annoying. That's about how long I lasted with Arrow anyway.
posted by ODiV at 7:27 PM on May 25, 2016
I might be done with this show now. It's gotten too annoying. That's about how long I lasted with Arrow anyway.
posted by ODiV at 7:27 PM on May 25, 2016
Barry: "Well, there's only one thing to do then. I've gotta race Zoom. And win."
"...have you tried running real fast?"
I have never seen a single episode of this show, but I enjoy reading these threads.
posted by skewed at 8:07 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
"...have you tried running real fast?"
I have never seen a single episode of this show, but I enjoy reading these threads.
posted by skewed at 8:07 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess you could call it moral relativism, but yes the writers instance that the Good Guys can never double cross or try to trick the Bad Guys, unless it is in an 'Honourable' way is inconsistent at best and head-mashingly stupid at worst.
It means some bad-guy-of-the-week can be atomised and no one ever mentions it again, whilst other Bad Guys must be saved-from-themselves.
Plus the show seems to keep asking the question 'What Makes A Hero?' and the answer always seems to be 'Sacrifice'.
Every. Damned. Time.
posted by Faintdreams at 3:28 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
It means some bad-guy-of-the-week can be atomised and no one ever mentions it again, whilst other Bad Guys must be saved-from-themselves.
Plus the show seems to keep asking the question 'What Makes A Hero?' and the answer always seems to be 'Sacrifice'.
Every. Damned. Time.
posted by Faintdreams at 3:28 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
So Zoom said he started taking a drug, "Velocity 9" and that caused him problems, but wasn't 9 the one Caitlin made and he was originally taking 6 or something?
Wait, no, why do I care?
posted by ODiV at 9:22 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait, no, why do I care?
posted by ODiV at 9:22 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I keep imagining a version of this series where each episode (or arc) is about Barry figuring out different ways to use "speed" to accomplish different things. Sure, portal opening, time travel, the usual grandiose comic book stuff, but that's actually boring and scientifically problematic.
What I think the writers (of this show and others) really need to do is just _throw away_ all comic book plots. They're basically from the 50s and mostly pretty dumb.
However, speed could do a lot that's being ignored. Chemical reactions, carrying things around the world, physics experiments/effects, building/constructing things -- all of these would take a certain amount of skill development, experiementation, exploration, and that could be _fascinating_.
There's a very long fiction web serial called "Worm" about a girl who develops the initially-disappointing superpower of controlling insects.
It's incredibly impressive because she takes that one, simple power, which sounds like kind of a dud, and step-by-step, over time, figures out incredibly creative ways to turn this one thing into an almost infinitely powerful, versatile tool set. It also has an effect on the way she approaches solving problems. I'd love to see this kind of thing, this creative way of thinking, more widely appreciated.
posted by amtho at 9:57 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I think the writers (of this show and others) really need to do is just _throw away_ all comic book plots. They're basically from the 50s and mostly pretty dumb.
However, speed could do a lot that's being ignored. Chemical reactions, carrying things around the world, physics experiments/effects, building/constructing things -- all of these would take a certain amount of skill development, experiementation, exploration, and that could be _fascinating_.
There's a very long fiction web serial called "Worm" about a girl who develops the initially-disappointing superpower of controlling insects.
It's incredibly impressive because she takes that one, simple power, which sounds like kind of a dud, and step-by-step, over time, figures out incredibly creative ways to turn this one thing into an almost infinitely powerful, versatile tool set. It also has an effect on the way she approaches solving problems. I'd love to see this kind of thing, this creative way of thinking, more widely appreciated.
posted by amtho at 9:57 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
"So Zoom said he started taking a drug, 'Velocity 9' and that caused him problems, but wasn't 9 the one Caitlin made and he was originally taking 6 or something?"
I think you're right about this, but I have absolutely no motivation to check.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2016
I think you're right about this, but I have absolutely no motivation to check.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2016
However, speed could do a lot that's being ignored. Chemical reactions, carrying things around the world, physics experiments/effects, building/constructing things
They underutilized every power, Killer frost could have created northern ice roads and allowed access to previously unexploited resources, becoming rich in the process.
Cisco can make portals to other universes, in at least one of them I'd bet gold/silver/palladium could be bought for $1/100kg. It would create a planet of limitless resources.
Barry could power a turbine and create limitless free energy.
The Atomic Ant Man could make more of his suits and use them for surgery, rescue missions and allow for repairs on machines and allow for new forms of technology!
Time travel could be used to save the 10,000-90,000 people from the Havenrock nuclear explosion... or stop Hitler.
Hawk-people's blood could be replicated and make everyone immortal.
posted by FallowKing at 11:29 AM on May 26, 2016
They underutilized every power, Killer frost could have created northern ice roads and allowed access to previously unexploited resources, becoming rich in the process.
Cisco can make portals to other universes, in at least one of them I'd bet gold/silver/palladium could be bought for $1/100kg. It would create a planet of limitless resources.
Barry could power a turbine and create limitless free energy.
The Atomic Ant Man could make more of his suits and use them for surgery, rescue missions and allow for repairs on machines and allow for new forms of technology!
Time travel could be used to save the 10,000-90,000 people from the Havenrock nuclear explosion... or stop Hitler.
Hawk-people's blood could be replicated and make everyone immortal.
posted by FallowKing at 11:29 AM on May 26, 2016
Interesting that Arrow always nails the last few episodes
Did you watch this seasons Arrow finale ? The Flash finale is Citizen Kane compared to the Arrow season finale.
posted by Pendragon at 12:30 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did you watch this seasons Arrow finale ? The Flash finale is Citizen Kane compared to the Arrow season finale.
posted by Pendragon at 12:30 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, speed could do a lot that's being ignored. Chemical reactions, carrying things around the world, physics experiments/effects, building/constructing things -- all of these would take a certain amount of skill development, experiementation, exploration, and that could be _fascinating_.
The show's (and the current comics DCU's) version of the Flash isn't really built for this, because Barry's powers are essentially magic and don't make sense in any real world way. When Comics Wally West (who is basically indistinguishable from Show Barry Allen -- don't ask) graduated from being Kid Flash and into his own series (The Flash, duh) in the mid-1980s, he did so after an illness had dramatically reduced his powers to the point where he could run only (!) several hundred miles an hour. What's more, he had to consume a fantastic amount of food in order to have all the calories on hand to burn when doing all that running. This led, in the first storyline, to the Flash agreeing to hand-courier a heart cross-country to a hospitalized child in the midst of a snowstorm...in exchange for a fee! Wally's need to get paid seemed shocking and gauche to the medical workers, but Wally was all, look, y'all don't work for free either, and I have to put away like two hundred bacon cheeseburgers to make it from here to Oregon, okay (or words to that effect). I found this slightly more mundane sci-fi take to be pretty refreshing, but within a few years we had the Speed Force and time travel and everything that made the series a hit (and the show a hit), so what do I know?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:39 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
The show's (and the current comics DCU's) version of the Flash isn't really built for this, because Barry's powers are essentially magic and don't make sense in any real world way. When Comics Wally West (who is basically indistinguishable from Show Barry Allen -- don't ask) graduated from being Kid Flash and into his own series (The Flash, duh) in the mid-1980s, he did so after an illness had dramatically reduced his powers to the point where he could run only (!) several hundred miles an hour. What's more, he had to consume a fantastic amount of food in order to have all the calories on hand to burn when doing all that running. This led, in the first storyline, to the Flash agreeing to hand-courier a heart cross-country to a hospitalized child in the midst of a snowstorm...in exchange for a fee! Wally's need to get paid seemed shocking and gauche to the medical workers, but Wally was all, look, y'all don't work for free either, and I have to put away like two hundred bacon cheeseburgers to make it from here to Oregon, okay (or words to that effect). I found this slightly more mundane sci-fi take to be pretty refreshing, but within a few years we had the Speed Force and time travel and everything that made the series a hit (and the show a hit), so what do I know?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:39 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Look, I hated it.
Except the bit with OG Flash in the uniform, despite the actor obviously has issues walking.
And I quit Flash early on, in part because of the lack of supervillians.
I loved last week's moments with Amanda Pays and Henry, and I loved JayActual as Flash.
And, as an Infinity Inc fan... I say bring it. Yeah, you can't use Diana or the Hawks or Atom, but you can use Infinity Inc.
Which, in my mind, leads to a Netflix show of The Golden Age. But I may be a minority of one.
posted by Mezentian at 10:02 AM on May 27, 2016
Except the bit with OG Flash in the uniform, despite the actor obviously has issues walking.
And I quit Flash early on, in part because of the lack of supervillians.
I loved last week's moments with Amanda Pays and Henry, and I loved JayActual as Flash.
And, as an Infinity Inc fan... I say bring it. Yeah, you can't use Diana or the Hawks or Atom, but you can use Infinity Inc.
Which, in my mind, leads to a Netflix show of The Golden Age. But I may be a minority of one.
posted by Mezentian at 10:02 AM on May 27, 2016
The only problem with Infinity is that it's tied so closely with JSA legacy characters that are off-limits or otherwise problematic. As you said, the Hawks are out, so is Atom, so is GL which makes Jade and Obsidian questionable unless you revamp their origins. I guess the best we can hope for is Legends not mucking up JSA too much.
posted by sardonyx at 10:43 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by sardonyx at 10:43 AM on May 27, 2016
Is Cavanaugh coming back? Or has that Wells run dry?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:53 PM on May 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:53 PM on May 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
He's coming back, but they're not saying which Wells he'll be playing.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:30 AM on May 30, 2016
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:30 AM on May 30, 2016
I'm guessing that at least for the first few episodes Tom Cavanaugh will be playing Earth-1 regular wells. Then there might be some time-magic and he'll be popped into the regular timeline.
posted by FallowKing at 8:35 AM on May 30, 2016
posted by FallowKing at 8:35 AM on May 30, 2016
I'm also rooting for the reset to affect everything and the audience will just have to accept it. I love it when shows take that leap. Eureka was amazing at that.
posted by numaner at 3:05 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by numaner at 3:05 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
...and the audience will just have to accept it.
Well I don't know about that. I'm already not bothering with the show after the mess that was this season.
posted by ODiV at 5:13 PM on May 30, 2016
Well I don't know about that. I'm already not bothering with the show after the mess that was this season.
posted by ODiV at 5:13 PM on May 30, 2016
So I just rewatched and yes, Jay/Zoom developed Velocity 6 which started killing him. Caitlin developed Velocity 9.
Also they banished Jay to Earth Two, and acted like the day was saved (at a cost) but then he just popped back for the showdown, so what exactly had they accomplished?
Never quite sure what the villain's plan is. Sure you'll rule the world, but then what? Feel like the heroes could keep asking, "Okay, and then?" or "Yes, but why?"
Also, Barry might want to take some martial arts lessons to give him an edge when he's in an evenly matched fight!
posted by idb at 6:59 PM on May 30, 2016
Also they banished Jay to Earth Two, and acted like the day was saved (at a cost) but then he just popped back for the showdown, so what exactly had they accomplished?
Never quite sure what the villain's plan is. Sure you'll rule the world, but then what? Feel like the heroes could keep asking, "Okay, and then?" or "Yes, but why?"
Also, Barry might want to take some martial arts lessons to give him an edge when he's in an evenly matched fight!
posted by idb at 6:59 PM on May 30, 2016
"Why didn't Barry _______?" The Flash story.
posted by ODiV at 7:23 PM on May 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 7:23 PM on May 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, Barry might want to take some martial arts lessons to give him an edge when he's in an evenly matched fight!
Or he could use a knife. Or a bat. Or a stick, or a cup of CC Jitters Coffee going Mach 15.
If he carried a can of pepper spray he'd win every time.
Barry is overpowered. He can do everything. Literally everything. The only reason he doesn't is because the writers gave him a lobotomy.
posted by FallowKing at 8:19 PM on May 30, 2016
Or he could use a knife. Or a bat. Or a stick, or a cup of CC Jitters Coffee going Mach 15.
If he carried a can of pepper spray he'd win every time.
Barry is overpowered. He can do everything. Literally everything. The only reason he doesn't is because the writers gave him a lobotomy.
posted by FallowKing at 8:19 PM on May 30, 2016
Also they banished Jay to Earth Two, and acted like the day was saved (at a cost) but then he just popped back for the showdown, so what exactly had they accomplished?
Yeah that was sort of a weird "let's stop the dumb to do this other dumb." The only explanation I had for what was that they managed to dart him, so he couldn't come right back. But would be back eventually. Which maybe is okay - sometimes you have to just kick the meta-villain can down the road till you can do something with it later, but the lack of acknowledging that was stupid. Just a simple we need him out of the way so we can dismantle this killer machine coulda done it. But as usual we have time for all sorts of other stupid chitchat but not making sense.
posted by phearlez at 7:40 AM on May 31, 2016
Yeah that was sort of a weird "let's stop the dumb to do this other dumb." The only explanation I had for what was that they managed to dart him, so he couldn't come right back. But would be back eventually. Which maybe is okay - sometimes you have to just kick the meta-villain can down the road till you can do something with it later, but the lack of acknowledging that was stupid. Just a simple we need him out of the way so we can dismantle this killer machine coulda done it. But as usual we have time for all sorts of other stupid chitchat but not making sense.
posted by phearlez at 7:40 AM on May 31, 2016
I am going to try to track down the writers' names and the producers' names so that they can know that making sense matters. Come on, guys, at least this one person will be rooting for you to show how smart you _can_ be if you put in the time and thought.
posted by amtho at 9:11 AM on June 1, 2016
posted by amtho at 9:11 AM on June 1, 2016
I think Alan Sepinwall had a good point: if there's a four show shared universe, will EVERYONE have to reboot because Barry did? Though i wouldn't mind losing the last season of Arrow or Legends, to be honest....
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:08 AM on June 13, 2016
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:08 AM on June 13, 2016
I guess you could call it moral relativism, but yes the writers instance that the Good Guys can never double cross or try to trick the Bad Guys, unless it is in an 'Honourable' way is inconsistent at best and head-mashingly stupid at worst.
I realized I could live with Barry being an idiot and playing by Zoom's rules. But when Harrison Fucking Wells meekly gave Zoom Barry's speed without double-crossing Zoom--maybe poisoning him or just even trying to save the day by being a dick to Zoom--I was done because it turned out Wells was the only character I really cared about anyway.
posted by straight at 8:04 PM on August 2, 2016
I realized I could live with Barry being an idiot and playing by Zoom's rules. But when Harrison Fucking Wells meekly gave Zoom Barry's speed without double-crossing Zoom--maybe poisoning him or just even trying to save the day by being a dick to Zoom--I was done because it turned out Wells was the only character I really cared about anyway.
posted by straight at 8:04 PM on August 2, 2016
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posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:16 PM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]