Arrow: Schism
May 26, 2016 2:34 PM - Season 4, Episode 23 - Subscribe
Oliver teams up with a surprising force in an attempt to stop Damien Darhk and his magic once and for all. Season Finale.
Conveniently all 15,000+ nuclear missiles need to travel long distances before detonating.
Ryder can explode a plane with his mind with a few souls but Damien Darhk can't stop Oliver with thousands.
In the final fight people in the background appear to just be running laps. Why aren't they armed? If I lived in star city I wouldn't leave the house without an automatic rifle.
Speaking of, IS star city worth saving? It seems like it might be better to flee and salt the earth.
R.I.P. Team Arrow
Next season on Arrow: Oliver discusses zoning plans with committees to convert several abandoned warehouses into low-income housing.
Conveniently all 15,000+ nuclear missiles need to travel long distances before detonating.
Ryder can explode a plane with his mind with a few souls but Damien Darhk can't stop Oliver with thousands.
In the final fight people in the background appear to just be running laps. Why aren't they armed? If I lived in star city I wouldn't leave the house without an automatic rifle.
Speaking of, IS star city worth saving? It seems like it might be better to flee and salt the earth.
R.I.P. Team Arrow
Next season on Arrow: Oliver discusses zoning plans with committees to convert several abandoned warehouses into low-income housing.
TeamArrow not taking Curtis to the hospital. Why not? He's got no secret identity to protect.
I'd guess it's just habit to treat them in the quiver.
Reiter.
God-damn it, I was sure it was Ryder. It's like fricken Game of thrones with the spelling!
Oliver getting appointed interim mayor. Wouldn't the deputy mayor or some other councillor just step and and run things for the short term?
No one else wanted to be mayor, they've all been killed. Oliver was the only applicant.
The way Felicity and Curtis just diverted (to where?) the incoming missile.
To space. Instead of going down, they went up. They used line-of sight hacking to get the wassits to dosszitz thing.
This episode was still better than The Flash. There's some nonsense in it, but the basic premise is coherent. It's tolerable.
I wonder... DO these shows have human writers? Or is it some kind of A.I. experiment where a robot uses comic transcripts as a source and automatically spits out scripts.
posted by FallowKing at 8:27 PM on May 26, 2016
I'd guess it's just habit to treat them in the quiver.
Reiter.
God-damn it, I was sure it was Ryder. It's like fricken Game of thrones with the spelling!
Oliver getting appointed interim mayor. Wouldn't the deputy mayor or some other councillor just step and and run things for the short term?
No one else wanted to be mayor, they've all been killed. Oliver was the only applicant.
The way Felicity and Curtis just diverted (to where?) the incoming missile.
To space. Instead of going down, they went up. They used line-of sight hacking to get the wassits to dosszitz thing.
This episode was still better than The Flash. There's some nonsense in it, but the basic premise is coherent. It's tolerable.
I wonder... DO these shows have human writers? Or is it some kind of A.I. experiment where a robot uses comic transcripts as a source and automatically spits out scripts.
posted by FallowKing at 8:27 PM on May 26, 2016
I cheated and IMDB'd the spelling of certain names, because I honestly had no idea about what they actually were.
And now you mentioned it tech-girl Felicity suddenly resorting to thingee-whatsissing (or whatever she called it) stood out like a sore thumb.
I guess I just need to turn off my brain because I just started wondering about flight times and maximum altitudes and whether the missiles could escape the atmosphere or if they would just ever just fall back to earth and hit a populated area.
Oh, and you're absolutely right. It was better than the Flash, but this week that's a pretty low bar to jump over. (I think the bar was laid into a trench dug into a pothole.)
posted by sardonyx at 8:41 PM on May 26, 2016
And now you mentioned it tech-girl Felicity suddenly resorting to thingee-whatsissing (or whatever she called it) stood out like a sore thumb.
I guess I just need to turn off my brain because I just started wondering about flight times and maximum altitudes and whether the missiles could escape the atmosphere or if they would just ever just fall back to earth and hit a populated area.
Oh, and you're absolutely right. It was better than the Flash, but this week that's a pretty low bar to jump over. (I think the bar was laid into a trench dug into a pothole.)
posted by sardonyx at 8:41 PM on May 26, 2016
The other big thing that bugged me was the final fight between Oliver and Damien. Sure Damien was a member of the League of Assassins but Oliver was its head (at least for a short while), not to mention that Damien hadn't been doing much fighting lately, being more likely to rely on his magic. Oliver should have been able to take him down much more easily and quickly than depicted.
posted by sardonyx at 9:10 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by sardonyx at 9:10 PM on May 26, 2016
I guess I just need to turn off my brain because I just started wondering about flight times and maximum altitudes and whether the missiles could escape the atmosphere or if they would just ever just fall back to earth and hit a populated area.
They can reach an altitude of 1200km and space is considered to be 100km... so they were likely already in space when Felicity magiked them upwards.
The most unrealistic thing is the time they were allowed... they should have had 1-30 minutes, but they were given 60.
Well... it's also unrealistic to think that all 15000 missiles had the same vulnerability... likely it would take a team months to access even a single make.
Also, did they retcon what rubicon was? I thought it was the worlds missiles, but in the 'last time on arrow' segments Diggle's wife(?) said it was NATO allies.... which I don't remember Russia being. I think they might have re-recorded that part.
posted by FallowKing at 9:11 PM on May 26, 2016
They can reach an altitude of 1200km and space is considered to be 100km... so they were likely already in space when Felicity magiked them upwards.
The most unrealistic thing is the time they were allowed... they should have had 1-30 minutes, but they were given 60.
Well... it's also unrealistic to think that all 15000 missiles had the same vulnerability... likely it would take a team months to access even a single make.
Also, did they retcon what rubicon was? I thought it was the worlds missiles, but in the 'last time on arrow' segments Diggle's wife(?) said it was NATO allies.... which I don't remember Russia being. I think they might have re-recorded that part.
posted by FallowKing at 9:11 PM on May 26, 2016
I think you're right about the retcon, (although I skipped the "previously" segment) because even when they were talking about Rubicon it seemed like it had slightly morphed into something else, but I guess that just the type of magic technology we can expect in these kind of sci-fi comic book shows.
The identical solution to all of the missiles bugged me as well, as did the sense of time--wait there's a missile heading to your city and you've got time to go out and speechify in the downtown before doing whatever it is you're going to do next, okay. I guess Team Arrow isn't plagued by traffic congestion.
And yeah, personally at this point, I'd let Star City burn. Or at least made sure I was as far away from it as possible. Curtis' boyfriend was right.
So what's going to happen to Damien's daughter? Somehow I suspect she become just another loose thread that never gets mentioned again.
posted by sardonyx at 9:29 PM on May 26, 2016
The identical solution to all of the missiles bugged me as well, as did the sense of time--wait there's a missile heading to your city and you've got time to go out and speechify in the downtown before doing whatever it is you're going to do next, okay. I guess Team Arrow isn't plagued by traffic congestion.
And yeah, personally at this point, I'd let Star City burn. Or at least made sure I was as far away from it as possible. Curtis' boyfriend was right.
So what's going to happen to Damien's daughter? Somehow I suspect she become just another loose thread that never gets mentioned again.
posted by sardonyx at 9:29 PM on May 26, 2016
The other big thing that bugged me was the final fight between Oliver and Damien. Sure Damien was a member of the League of Assassins but Oliver was its head (at least for a short while), not to mention that Damien hadn't been doing much fighting lately, being more likely to rely on his magic. Oliver should have been able to take him down much more easily and quickly than depicted.
Damien is immortal, was almost the leader of the LOA, and had centuries to train. He would have won if, during this episode, the writers didn't forget the idol made people immortal.
Also, a couple episodes, Thea's boyfriend, Alex, died... I think in the episode before that they said he was alive. I think he was just tasered... what happened there?
So what's going to happen to Damien's daughter? Somehow I suspect she become just another loose thread that never gets mentioned again.
I'd guess time travel.. she could be a new romantic interest and villain for Oliver, or get taken in by Nyssa and trained to kill Oliver. Or both.
posted by FallowKing at 9:39 PM on May 26, 2016
Damien is immortal, was almost the leader of the LOA, and had centuries to train. He would have won if, during this episode, the writers didn't forget the idol made people immortal.
Also, a couple episodes, Thea's boyfriend, Alex, died... I think in the episode before that they said he was alive. I think he was just tasered... what happened there?
So what's going to happen to Damien's daughter? Somehow I suspect she become just another loose thread that never gets mentioned again.
I'd guess time travel.. she could be a new romantic interest and villain for Oliver, or get taken in by Nyssa and trained to kill Oliver. Or both.
posted by FallowKing at 9:39 PM on May 26, 2016
Apparently the writers think we miss Laurel Lance. That's what I took from this episode.
posted by ktkt at 12:17 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ktkt at 12:17 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
FallowKing, I think Oliver "hope-magicked" the powers out of him after the crowd stood back up.
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:41 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:41 AM on May 27, 2016
The team's dissolution at the end of the season matches my feelings about this show. Is it worth it? Are we doing any good here? The place is in ruins and it seems as though the darkness can only continue. Let's all go do our own thing and think about whether this is a place we want to be. I'm not sure it is.
Berlanti and his crew are clearly way overextended. Legends of Tomorrow pulled together a couple of really fun episodes at the end of its 1st season (they were still plagued with nonsense, but at least there was some movement) but overall it had crap writing. Arrow used to be awesome, now it's just repeating itself and trying to compensate by raising the stakes (i.e. more characters get killed off and things are grimdarker). The Flash has gone from entertaining-bad to just tiresome wheel-spinning bad (they couldn't come up with an arc for the second season that wasn't a tired retread of the first). Supergirl was the shiny new toy this season, and even that had its problems.
The writers are spread too thin, but it also seems that they are either dramaturgically lazy or just plain incompetent. Far too many of the plots for Berlanti shows only work if characters behave in uncharacteristically stupid ways. A few cute quips are not enough to gloss over the terrible, amateurish plotting.
And geez, let's look at the season arcs for the shows with more than one season under their belts...
The Flash
Season 1 - displaced evil speedster has a poorly articulated vendetta against Barry but needs his help to activate his world-ending plan.
Season 2 - displaced evil speedster has a poorly articulated vendetta against Barry but needs his help to activate his world-ending plan.
Arrow
Season 1 - bad man wants to destroy Starling City.
Season 2 - bad man wants to destroy Starling City.
Season 3 - bad man wants to destroy Star City.
Season 4 - bad man wants to destroy Star City.
I admit I'll probably check in with the Berlanti shows next season, but more out of morbid curiosity than out of hope.
The CW should do a contest where the randomly-chosen winner gets to be lead writer on the Berlanti show of the winner's choice. I bet the writing would improve. Couldn't be worse.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:07 AM on May 27, 2016
Berlanti and his crew are clearly way overextended. Legends of Tomorrow pulled together a couple of really fun episodes at the end of its 1st season (they were still plagued with nonsense, but at least there was some movement) but overall it had crap writing. Arrow used to be awesome, now it's just repeating itself and trying to compensate by raising the stakes (i.e. more characters get killed off and things are grimdarker). The Flash has gone from entertaining-bad to just tiresome wheel-spinning bad (they couldn't come up with an arc for the second season that wasn't a tired retread of the first). Supergirl was the shiny new toy this season, and even that had its problems.
The writers are spread too thin, but it also seems that they are either dramaturgically lazy or just plain incompetent. Far too many of the plots for Berlanti shows only work if characters behave in uncharacteristically stupid ways. A few cute quips are not enough to gloss over the terrible, amateurish plotting.
And geez, let's look at the season arcs for the shows with more than one season under their belts...
The Flash
Season 1 - displaced evil speedster has a poorly articulated vendetta against Barry but needs his help to activate his world-ending plan.
Season 2 - displaced evil speedster has a poorly articulated vendetta against Barry but needs his help to activate his world-ending plan.
Arrow
Season 1 - bad man wants to destroy Starling City.
Season 2 - bad man wants to destroy Starling City.
Season 3 - bad man wants to destroy Star City.
Season 4 - bad man wants to destroy Star City.
I admit I'll probably check in with the Berlanti shows next season, but more out of morbid curiosity than out of hope.
The CW should do a contest where the randomly-chosen winner gets to be lead writer on the Berlanti show of the winner's choice. I bet the writing would improve. Couldn't be worse.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:07 AM on May 27, 2016
This episode was still better than The Flash.
Flash had JSA.
This, while a better written episode, with less idiot ball, did not.
They need to retool both shows with less DUMB, although I fear with Flash, too late.
Arrow, they have squibbed it. It needs more standalone episodes, maybe with a Longbow Hunters arc, instead of Big Bad with Magic fails the city.
I wonder how hamstrung they were by the DCCU.
posted by Mezentian at 9:51 AM on May 27, 2016
Flash had JSA.
This, while a better written episode, with less idiot ball, did not.
They need to retool both shows with less DUMB, although I fear with Flash, too late.
Arrow, they have squibbed it. It needs more standalone episodes, maybe with a Longbow Hunters arc, instead of Big Bad with Magic fails the city.
I wonder how hamstrung they were by the DCCU.
posted by Mezentian at 9:51 AM on May 27, 2016
If it's that easy, they should have done that the first time the missiles were launched.
When the missiles were launched they were locked out of Rubicon, so they couldn't do anything until they "line of sight" hacked the one that headed for Star City. That allowed them to trace the location of the signal that started all the launch. After Cooper Seldon finally pulled himself away from the computer Felicity was able to use his access to just change the trajectory. It makes sense if you assume TV-super-science.
Reiter.
God-damn it, I was sure it was Ryder.
I watch TV with captions on, it eliminates a lot of these name issues.
And yeah, personally at this point, I'd let Star City burn.
It's not your home! It's their home. You just don't understand! They have hope!
posted by numaner at 12:07 PM on May 27, 2016
When the missiles were launched they were locked out of Rubicon, so they couldn't do anything until they "line of sight" hacked the one that headed for Star City. That allowed them to trace the location of the signal that started all the launch. After Cooper Seldon finally pulled himself away from the computer Felicity was able to use his access to just change the trajectory. It makes sense if you assume TV-super-science.
Reiter.
God-damn it, I was sure it was Ryder.
I watch TV with captions on, it eliminates a lot of these name issues.
And yeah, personally at this point, I'd let Star City burn.
It's not your home! It's their home. You just don't understand! They have hope!
posted by numaner at 12:07 PM on May 27, 2016
FWIW, on Felicity's doomsday tracker, Star City is pretty much Chicago.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:58 PM on May 27, 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:58 PM on May 27, 2016
It's not your home! It's their home. You just don't understand! They have hope!
Your city gets nearly destroyed annually, sure, you're gonna be optimistic.
And, hey, the power of optimism rendered the ghosts pretty useless in the final battle.
posted by Mezentian at 3:54 AM on May 28, 2016
Your city gets nearly destroyed annually, sure, you're gonna be optimistic.
And, hey, the power of optimism rendered the ghosts pretty useless in the final battle.
posted by Mezentian at 3:54 AM on May 28, 2016
I need Oliver Queen to deliver a speech about how we should have hope for next season.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:06 AM on May 28, 2016
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:06 AM on May 28, 2016
What the hell what all that nonsense?
Where did that ballistic missile go? Or the other 15,000? Felicity said that she couldn't disarm the warheads, so they would have detonated somewhere, right?
Why did Dahrk's magic stop working? Because of the power of... urban friendship? Why didn't Lilah and Digg just shoot him in the face straight off? Why did Dahrk suddenly stop fighting like a pro and start punching like a drunk 3rd rate bar brawler?
Nobody decides to kill Malcolm Merlin, despite the fact he was complict in a plot to end the world?
And shouting a speech in the middle of a riot makes you mayor now? You have a deputy mayor, don't you? And who the hell gives a damn who the mayor is when a nuclear apocolypse was just averted? Having a mayor is not critical.
And Digg is scared that all the violence had made him eeeevil, so he... rejoins the army? I mean, WTF?
What an absolute shambles.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:56 PM on May 28, 2016
Where did that ballistic missile go? Or the other 15,000? Felicity said that she couldn't disarm the warheads, so they would have detonated somewhere, right?
Why did Dahrk's magic stop working? Because of the power of... urban friendship? Why didn't Lilah and Digg just shoot him in the face straight off? Why did Dahrk suddenly stop fighting like a pro and start punching like a drunk 3rd rate bar brawler?
Nobody decides to kill Malcolm Merlin, despite the fact he was complict in a plot to end the world?
And shouting a speech in the middle of a riot makes you mayor now? You have a deputy mayor, don't you? And who the hell gives a damn who the mayor is when a nuclear apocolypse was just averted? Having a mayor is not critical.
And Digg is scared that all the violence had made him eeeevil, so he... rejoins the army? I mean, WTF?
What an absolute shambles.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:56 PM on May 28, 2016
And, hey, the power of optimism rendered the ghosts pretty useless in the final battle.
"Uh, boss, we're being charged by a bunch of civvys. Some of them have like, pipes and sticks."
"Oh, right. Better not use our guns, boys".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:58 PM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Uh, boss, we're being charged by a bunch of civvys. Some of them have like, pipes and sticks."
"Oh, right. Better not use our guns, boys".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:58 PM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where did that ballistic missile go? Or the other 15,000? Felicity said that she couldn't disarm the warheads, so they would have detonated somewhere, right?
She hacked the warheads and made them explode in space.
posted by Pendragon at 1:31 AM on May 29, 2016
She hacked the warheads and made them explode in space.
posted by Pendragon at 1:31 AM on May 29, 2016
She hacked the warheads and made them explode in space.
Really? I missed that. Probably because I was too busy hitting my head against the coffee table.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:16 AM on May 29, 2016
Really? I missed that. Probably because I was too busy hitting my head against the coffee table.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:16 AM on May 29, 2016
Diggle re-upping, which means he shouldn't be around Star City for the next few years and therefore should be unavailable to help the team. (Okay maybe he's just going to his brother's funeral. Or some other military affair, but are retired vets still able to wear their full uniforms? I know they can wear their medals, but is he allowed to put on the dress blues?)
He just put it on for his travels to scam freeMcDonalds Big Belly Burger and get free upgrades at the airport. Dude runs around as a vigilante, you think he's sweating the rules about whether he's still allowed to wear his dress uni?
posted by phearlez at 7:56 AM on May 31, 2016
He just put it on for his travels to scam free
posted by phearlez at 7:56 AM on May 31, 2016
After the last episode, I just sat to watch this and started by saying "If Malcolm Merlin is alive at the end of this, I'm out."
In the end, Merlin's still alive, so I'm out. But even if he'd died, the miraculously disappearing thousands of NUCLEAR FUCKING MISSILES and that pathetic dime-store St. Crispin's Day Speech from the top of a taxi cab would've killed it for me anyway.
Stephen Amell is eye candy, but I can get that elsewhere.
posted by dnash at 6:26 PM on June 2, 2016
In the end, Merlin's still alive, so I'm out. But even if he'd died, the miraculously disappearing thousands of NUCLEAR FUCKING MISSILES and that pathetic dime-store St. Crispin's Day Speech from the top of a taxi cab would've killed it for me anyway.
Stephen Amell is eye candy, but I can get that elsewhere.
posted by dnash at 6:26 PM on June 2, 2016
pathetic dime-store St. Crispin's Day Speech
This is a superb description.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:45 PM on June 2, 2016
This is a superb description.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:45 PM on June 2, 2016
Where did that ballistic missile go? Or the other 15,000?
Superman threw them into the sun.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:57 AM on June 3, 2016
Superman threw them into the sun.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:57 AM on June 3, 2016
Superman threw them into the sun.
Nope. Superman's on the Waverider. He'd try to disarm them but would only manage to double the number.
posted by FallowKing at 10:36 PM on June 4, 2016
Nope. Superman's on the Waverider. He'd try to disarm them but would only manage to double the number.
posted by FallowKing at 10:36 PM on June 4, 2016
Yeah, for an episode with a buncha nukes, this was pretty middling.
And yeah, Flash and Arrow do have the same plot over and over again each season, just with different players.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:59 PM on June 14, 2016
And yeah, Flash and Arrow do have the same plot over and over again each season, just with different players.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:59 PM on June 14, 2016
So I just finished this season and it's hard not to see the huge shadow of Donald Trump looming over the back half.
- Ruve Adams "Make this city great again"
- the whole mayoral plotline in general, actually, casting civic service as a heroic thing - I've seen a lot of people being inspired to run for office by Hillary and Trump
- the families in the underground city who signed on with the evil dude because the world is so bad
- the Orwellian-fascist tones of the underground city
- evil dude must be beaten by everyone rejecting him and siding with the good guy
They started writing the season probably May 2015, right around when Trump threw his hat in the ring; they finished writing it before he won the nomination in August. So I don't know how much of it is coincidence or intelligent, but it was definitely on their mind.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:12 PM on December 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
- Ruve Adams "Make this city great again"
- the whole mayoral plotline in general, actually, casting civic service as a heroic thing - I've seen a lot of people being inspired to run for office by Hillary and Trump
- the families in the underground city who signed on with the evil dude because the world is so bad
- the Orwellian-fascist tones of the underground city
- evil dude must be beaten by everyone rejecting him and siding with the good guy
They started writing the season probably May 2015, right around when Trump threw his hat in the ring; they finished writing it before he won the nomination in August. So I don't know how much of it is coincidence or intelligent, but it was definitely on their mind.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:12 PM on December 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
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This episode was such a mess of idiotic and stupid that it's hard to know where to begin. In addition to everything you've already pointed out, FallowKing, we've got:
TeamArrow not taking Curtis to the hospital. Why not? He's got no secret identity to protect.
Oliver being able to quickly and easily kill Taiana when he had nothing but trouble doing any sort of harm to Reiter.
An unarmed mob taking on (and defeating) a group of trained killers/mercenaries/ghosts, all of whom are heavily armed, but don't bother shooting and instead engage in one-on-one hand-to-hand combat with the local citizens. (Haven't we already seen this before on this show? I seem to recall being bothered by it before and complaining about it before, but I'll admit I could be confusing Arrow with something else.)
Oliver not thinking about where his arrow was going to land (somewhere in the crowd) after it nicked Damien's cheek.
Diggle re-upping, which means he shouldn't be around Star City for the next few years and therefore should be unavailable to help the team. (Okay maybe he's just going to his brother's funeral. Or some other military affair, but are retired vets still able to wear their full uniforms? I know they can wear their medals, but is he allowed to put on the dress blues?)
Oliver getting appointed interim mayor. Wouldn't the deputy mayor or some other councillor just step and and run things for the short term?
The way Felicity and Curtis just diverted (to where?) the incoming missile. I don't seem to recall the hardware they used being mentioned before, but it might have slipped by me during one of the nonsensical technobabble discussions. Not to mention the whole "flipping the horizon" bit. If it's that easy, they should have done that the first time the missiles were launched.
Maybe now that Berlanti and company have all four shows off the ground and in one place they can spend a bit more time on putting together scripts that make sense and less time world and brand building. It would be nice to see Arrow and Flash jump back up to match the quality of their best seasons.
posted by sardonyx at 7:54 PM on May 26, 2016