Penny Dreadful: This World Is Our Hell
May 30, 2016 5:21 AM - Season 3, Episode 5 - Subscribe
While in the harsh desert wasteland, Hecate and Ethan struggle to survive.
*Frankenstein injects an electrified dose of Jekyll's serum into their test patient's brain (via the eyeball!), which appears to have the long-term effect they were aiming for.
*AV Club - Ethan’s past is revealed in an exposition-heavy Penny Dreadful
*Frankenstein injects an electrified dose of Jekyll's serum into their test patient's brain (via the eyeball!), which appears to have the long-term effect they were aiming for.
*AV Club - Ethan’s past is revealed in an exposition-heavy Penny Dreadful
Wouldn't it make sense to kill one of the horses for meat and blood to drink? Or visit the camp where everyone just died for their water? Or don't put off the sex until you've got supplies?
Now that the pedantic stuff is outta the way, this episode pales compared to last weeks, but it could do nothing but. The Wolf of God isn't very compelling, though Hectate is. On the plus side the scenery is gorgeous.
Doctors Frankenstein and Jekyll also more interesting, with their similarities and differences. But poor Victor, he's just a weirdly obsessed lovesick geek. With a fucked up friend he can play God with in their awesome looking lab.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:46 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now that the pedantic stuff is outta the way, this episode pales compared to last weeks, but it could do nothing but. The Wolf of God isn't very compelling, though Hectate is. On the plus side the scenery is gorgeous.
Doctors Frankenstein and Jekyll also more interesting, with their similarities and differences. But poor Victor, he's just a weirdly obsessed lovesick geek. With a fucked up friend he can play God with in their awesome looking lab.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:46 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well why not just magic up some water? If Lucifer can provide snakes, why would life saving water be so difficult? Seriously. You can't talk smack about God if Lucifer can't arrange a nice drink of water in the desert.
On the plus side, she recovers from heat stroke nicely so there are, apparently some perks to serving the Dark Lord.
Victor went way off the deep end with his putting down of poor Jekyll considering the results of Jekyll's experiments have been to produce lucidity in his patients, if only for a brief time. While I think Lily is amazing, considering Victor's track record FROM VICTOR'S OWN POV, he is no position to talk smack to Jekyll. Not to mention Jekyll's motives are more pure. Not totally, obviously, but far more than Victor's.
posted by miss-lapin at 5:05 PM on May 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the plus side, she recovers from heat stroke nicely so there are, apparently some perks to serving the Dark Lord.
Victor went way off the deep end with his putting down of poor Jekyll considering the results of Jekyll's experiments have been to produce lucidity in his patients, if only for a brief time. While I think Lily is amazing, considering Victor's track record FROM VICTOR'S OWN POV, he is no position to talk smack to Jekyll. Not to mention Jekyll's motives are more pure. Not totally, obviously, but far more than Victor's.
posted by miss-lapin at 5:05 PM on May 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah Victor is pretty full of himself, always has been since we first saw him(I recently re-watched the first two episodes of the series). But you also can't blame him, he has brought people back to life. That it doesn't go well after that isn't good, but he's clearly smart as hell. Just has a few issues, heh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:10 PM on May 30, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:10 PM on May 30, 2016
Not to mention Jekyll's motives are more pure. Not totally, obviously, but far more than Victor's.
YES THIS. jekyll's "it would be great to cure this wild uncontrollable rage that people, one of whom might be me, are suffering" is light years away from vicky's "let's make a mindwiped lady for me to fuck".
posted by poffin boffin at 5:23 PM on May 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
YES THIS. jekyll's "it would be great to cure this wild uncontrollable rage that people, one of whom might be me, are suffering" is light years away from vicky's "let's make a mindwiped lady for me to fuck".
posted by poffin boffin at 5:23 PM on May 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
Did they make clear why Ethan wants to kill his dad so much? And why it is popping up now?
They mentioned him forcing Ethan to join the army, but that doesn't seem sufficient for how angry he is (angrier seemingly than at the man who killed his mom/brother/sister).
posted by humans are superior! at 6:03 PM on May 30, 2016
They mentioned him forcing Ethan to join the army, but that doesn't seem sufficient for how angry he is (angrier seemingly than at the man who killed his mom/brother/sister).
posted by humans are superior! at 6:03 PM on May 30, 2016
Brian Cox! Love that guy.
That is all I have to contribute at the moment.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:28 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
That is all I have to contribute at the moment.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:28 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
humans are superior!: Did they make clear why Ethan wants to kill his dad so much? And why it is popping up now?
My interpretation was he was talking about killing not BrianCoxDad, but IndianDad. There was a lot of vagueness in his descriptions of feels/etc, and he refers to ID as his "father" in the same way he refers to BCD.
Ethan is ashamed of what he brought down on his birth family, and angry at his Indian Family for betraying him.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:22 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
My interpretation was he was talking about killing not BrianCoxDad, but IndianDad. There was a lot of vagueness in his descriptions of feels/etc, and he refers to ID as his "father" in the same way he refers to BCD.
Ethan is ashamed of what he brought down on his birth family, and angry at his Indian Family for betraying him.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:22 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
no, he's definitely talking about his white dad, otherwise why would he specifically be trekking through the desert, almost to his death, to his white dad's ranch saying "im gonna kill my dad" to hecate? white dad was like "wtf malcolm why did you bring my son's apache dad here," it's not like wes studi was just hanging out with white dad drinking jack daniels.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:06 PM on May 30, 2016
posted by poffin boffin at 10:06 PM on May 30, 2016
Yeah it is a bit confusing. At first I did think he meant ID, but it was clear Ethan was heading towards BCD's house and there is no reason to suppose ID would be there. Maybe he wanted to kill BCD because he pushed him to join the army, which began Ethan's voyage into the monstrous and leaves him now with no people except for Hecate. If his father hadn't pushed him into the army, Ethan would have been spared his knowledge of the barbarism that BOTH his real and adoptive family are capable of.
But even that doesn't seem quite right. I've had trouble figuring out Ethan's plan and the motive behind it for a while. Out of all them, he's the character who seems the most...vague and considering that we just spent an entire episode on his story, that's not so great.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:16 PM on May 30, 2016
But even that doesn't seem quite right. I've had trouble figuring out Ethan's plan and the motive behind it for a while. Out of all them, he's the character who seems the most...vague and considering that we just spent an entire episode on his story, that's not so great.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:16 PM on May 30, 2016
I'm glad to know that I'm to the only one totally confused by Ethan's backstory. And I'm ashamed to admit that when Brian Cox appeared on-screen I had a "it's, it's ... that guy!" moment and had to watch the credits to remember his name.
What confuses me most about Ethan and his story is, What does being a werewolf have to do with any of it? My impression, or thinking, over the past couple seasons has been that Ethan came from a family of werewolves, and that he had turned his back on them and his nature. Maybe that's still the case, but now I doubt it. Or was Ethan turned into a werewolf by Kaetanay's people? Are they werewolves themselves? Or is his lycanthropy totally unique, and just the lupine icing on a Bavarian layer cake of torment and guilt?
It's been fascinating to watch Victor's and Jekyll's relationship morph even over these few episodes. Jekyll shows up to cheer Victor, shows him his work, and kind of appears to have an upper hand (as well as his own struggles). Now Victor has glommed on to his work, even hijacked it, to "improve" it and further his own selfish and deluded ends. Jekyll really needs to do a slow fade on that friendship....
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 7:54 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
What confuses me most about Ethan and his story is, What does being a werewolf have to do with any of it? My impression, or thinking, over the past couple seasons has been that Ethan came from a family of werewolves, and that he had turned his back on them and his nature. Maybe that's still the case, but now I doubt it. Or was Ethan turned into a werewolf by Kaetanay's people? Are they werewolves themselves? Or is his lycanthropy totally unique, and just the lupine icing on a Bavarian layer cake of torment and guilt?
It's been fascinating to watch Victor's and Jekyll's relationship morph even over these few episodes. Jekyll shows up to cheer Victor, shows him his work, and kind of appears to have an upper hand (as well as his own struggles). Now Victor has glommed on to his work, even hijacked it, to "improve" it and further his own selfish and deluded ends. Jekyll really needs to do a slow fade on that friendship....
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 7:54 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
What confuses me most about Ethan and his story is, What does being a werewolf have to do with any of it? My impression, or thinking, over the past couple seasons has been that Ethan came from a family of werewolves, and that he had turned his back on them and his nature. Maybe that's still the case, but now I doubt it. Or was Ethan turned into a werewolf by Kaetanay's people? Are they werewolves themselves? Or is his lycanthropy totally unique, and just the lupine icing on a Bavarian layer cake of torment and guilt?
I think the reason some people are confused about his backstory is that the writers seem to be saving this for a big reveal - right now, either his birth dad or his Apache dad (or neither) could be a werewolf, and I have a feeling that's the piece of info that's missing from our knowledge of Ethan's motivations. This episode spelled out the chronology of like, 90% of the events in his past, but the werewolf part was noticeably absent.
Apache dad certainly knows Ethan's a werewolf, but it kinda feels to me like birth dad does too, which at least in my mind points toward birth dad being a werewolf as well.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:13 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think the reason some people are confused about his backstory is that the writers seem to be saving this for a big reveal - right now, either his birth dad or his Apache dad (or neither) could be a werewolf, and I have a feeling that's the piece of info that's missing from our knowledge of Ethan's motivations. This episode spelled out the chronology of like, 90% of the events in his past, but the werewolf part was noticeably absent.
Apache dad certainly knows Ethan's a werewolf, but it kinda feels to me like birth dad does too, which at least in my mind points toward birth dad being a werewolf as well.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:13 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
Considering the apache myth about the wolf, I suspect Apache dad infected Ethan for some reason. It's possible, BCD is a werewolf, but somehow I doubt it. Maybe he made Ethan join he army to try and put his wolf nature to good use. Holding this back for a reveal is extremely confusing and I hope they get to it soon.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:11 AM on May 31, 2016
posted by miss-lapin at 10:11 AM on May 31, 2016
which at least in my mind points toward birth dad being a werewolf as well.
yeah, this was my assumption as well, but then when white dad was describing the attack on the family it seemed unlikely that a family of werewolves (or even just one weredad) would be unable to defend themselves from an attacking group of around 10 people. we've seen ethan slaughter more than that on his own at least 3 times now, i think?
posted by poffin boffin at 10:35 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
yeah, this was my assumption as well, but then when white dad was describing the attack on the family it seemed unlikely that a family of werewolves (or even just one weredad) would be unable to defend themselves from an attacking group of around 10 people. we've seen ethan slaughter more than that on his own at least 3 times now, i think?
posted by poffin boffin at 10:35 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
It depends on WHEN they attacked. Ethan only transforms during the full moon. No reason to suspect weredad (whoever he is) would be different. Thus if the Apache were smart enough to strike when it wasn't the full moon, it wouldn't be a problem. If Ethan told the Apache everything in order to make their raid more effective, if his family or even a member was a werewolf, he probably would have thrown in that salient detail as well.
I still don't believe BCD is weredad, but just saying I don't these these weres are like the weres on True Blood who can transform at will.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:27 AM on May 31, 2016
I still don't believe BCD is weredad, but just saying I don't these these weres are like the weres on True Blood who can transform at will.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:27 AM on May 31, 2016
Thinking about it some more, season 1 Ethan was fleeing his family/past while end of season 2 Ethan turned himself in. Though, if I remember correctly he was shocked/unhappy that he was being shipped back to America, so never mind.
All the other backstory vagrancies aside (assuming further explanation is forthcoming), what changed from him fleeing his past to wanting to murder it?
posted by humans are superior! at 8:29 AM on June 1, 2016
All the other backstory vagrancies aside (assuming further explanation is forthcoming), what changed from him fleeing his past to wanting to murder it?
posted by humans are superior! at 8:29 AM on June 1, 2016
i feel like the first time he straight out said "i want to kill my dad" was within the last few episodes? even when he realized that the pinkerton men hunting him in s2 were sent by his dad, he was more interested in avoidance than in confrontation, violent or not. i think the turning point was when he saw the hunters kill everyone on the train just to get to him.
i maybe have to rewatch the end of last season tho
posted by poffin boffin at 10:25 AM on June 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
i maybe have to rewatch the end of last season tho
posted by poffin boffin at 10:25 AM on June 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
he was more interested in avoidance than in confrontation,
He was hiding out in London having changed his name. He was absolutely trying to avoid confrontation. I think between being returned to america and the train massacre he realized that avoidance is not an option. And THAT is when his downward spiral began which peaked in the snake attack. The only way for him to be free is for him to kill them all!
Ethan has been betrayed by BOTH his real and adoptive families. The only person who has been a decent father figure is Sir Malcolm, and Malcolm originally came to him as an employer. I wish Sembene was still alive because he would not let this shit go down. Sembene showed Ethan real understanding and acceptance and that's something he has been sorely missing. Sembene is a clear example that he was previously a traitor, but became a good man. With that hope, I don't think Ethan would have gone down the rabbit hole with Hecate.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:43 AM on June 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
He was hiding out in London having changed his name. He was absolutely trying to avoid confrontation. I think between being returned to america and the train massacre he realized that avoidance is not an option. And THAT is when his downward spiral began which peaked in the snake attack. The only way for him to be free is for him to kill them all!
Ethan has been betrayed by BOTH his real and adoptive families. The only person who has been a decent father figure is Sir Malcolm, and Malcolm originally came to him as an employer. I wish Sembene was still alive because he would not let this shit go down. Sembene showed Ethan real understanding and acceptance and that's something he has been sorely missing. Sembene is a clear example that he was previously a traitor, but became a good man. With that hope, I don't think Ethan would have gone down the rabbit hole with Hecate.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:43 AM on June 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Look. I think the real hero of this season is Timothy Dalton's hat.
That's a damn fine hat.
posted by prismatic7 at 5:05 AM on June 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's a damn fine hat.
posted by prismatic7 at 5:05 AM on June 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't think any of the Many Dads of Ethan Talbot can actually be werewolves. The whole Lupus Dei thing is a single unit affair, if my fabulously haired Jewish gay Egyptologist is to be believed. Who the fuck knows at this point? It's a bit convoluted and while I'm loving it (and how much it echoes actual penny dreadfuls, with their appallingly tangled stories) it'd be nice if we could get a jist of what's going on.
I do love Apache Dad though. He's completely metal.
I kind of wish Malcolm had shot Hecate *before* Ethan had a chance to fumble the gun out. I mean come on, man. The guy was dying of thirst hey. He's not going to be his usual great shot.
In other news, it's no surprise how crap a boyfriend/father Victor was his treatment of Jekyll is his idea of a good friendship. Fuck man. That's some toxic relationship business right there.
posted by Jilder at 7:07 AM on June 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do love Apache Dad though. He's completely metal.
I kind of wish Malcolm had shot Hecate *before* Ethan had a chance to fumble the gun out. I mean come on, man. The guy was dying of thirst hey. He's not going to be his usual great shot.
In other news, it's no surprise how crap a boyfriend/father Victor was his treatment of Jekyll is his idea of a good friendship. Fuck man. That's some toxic relationship business right there.
posted by Jilder at 7:07 AM on June 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ethan your plan was bad. "We'll ride into the desert without enough water because I know where a stream is to fill up" okay but "the stream's gone I guess we have to stick unwaveringly with the plan anyway even though it means likely death now" this part is not so good.
Also "We're dying of thirst so let's travel during the day in the desert" have people not invented traveling at night yet?
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:17 PM on June 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also "We're dying of thirst so let's travel during the day in the desert" have people not invented traveling at night yet?
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:17 PM on June 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why couldn't Hec use her powers to make some water? She almost dies of heat stroke after the stuff we've seen her do last season? Weak. Maybe her mum was right.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:54 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:54 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I asked the very same question if you scroll up near the top of the thread. Lucifer can magic up snakes but not water. Not a really great trick.
posted by miss-lapin at 6:37 PM on June 6, 2016
posted by miss-lapin at 6:37 PM on June 6, 2016
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posted by poffin boffin at 2:18 PM on May 30, 2016 [2 favorites]