Hannibal: Tome-wan
May 16, 2014 11:09 PM - Season 2, Episode 12 - Subscribe

A former compatriot returns to help Will design his lure of loneliness and whimsy, while Hannibal helps Mason to expand his culinary horizons. This is the second to last episode of the season.
posted by homunculus (103 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Of course Mason sees a hog where Will saw a stag.

I am thinking that Bedelia's hint--about Hannibal persuading you to kill someone you love--means Hannibal's going to try and set up Will to kill Alana. I... I don't think (hope?) it will happen like that, since that would be going way too far across the line. Particularly if Will will be called upon to help the BAU in future story lines.

But I'm worried Hannibal might try to set it up. Especially if he feels the hook tug in his mouth.

Also, Achilles and Patroclus? Oh show.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:25 PM on May 16, 2014 [5 favorites]


You wanna know how I got these scars?
posted by homunculus at 11:29 PM on May 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


The nose was not crunchy enough, I was expecting extreme crunch.
posted by elizardbits at 11:42 PM on May 16, 2014


Also I am glad that Winston at least was innocent of the facefeast
posted by elizardbits at 11:42 PM on May 16, 2014 [8 favorites]


Winston is a good dog. Buster is the impetuous one.
posted by homunculus at 12:17 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]




That predatory fish jelly was off the hook. What I'd give to be the bizarre food researcher on the show.
posted by yellowbinder at 1:17 AM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]




lovecrafty, I was more thinking that Bedelia was foreshadowing Hannibal convincing Jack to kill his wife. Which would tie in with earlier episodes, and set up the knockdown fight between the two.
posted by arha at 5:37 AM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


I sat there with my mouth hanging open for the entire episode. Was not expecting ALL OF THAT in one episode.

Now the table is clear for the finale.


Eeeeeeep.
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


I've been thinking for a few episodes now that "Hannibal tries to manipulate Will into killing Alana" is the endgame. Bedelia did nothing to convince me that's not the case. Ugh, I would like to be wrong on that.

Yeah, that was a whole lot of episode. I'm glad I finished my ritual Fancy Cannibal Hour ice cream in the first half, as I might have lost my appetite toward the end there around the time I was hiding under a blanket muttering "no no stop stop I don't want to hear crunching stop stop stop" at the TV.
posted by Stacey at 7:27 AM on May 17, 2014


Mason is full of himself!

Also the story of Anderson spending like 24 hours awake and jumping into planes back to back to shoot two scenes cause She loves playing Bedelia so much makes me excited that we'll see more of her in Season 3.
posted by The Whelk at 7:30 AM on May 17, 2014 [6 favorites]


I'll go against the crowd: I thought Gillian Anderson kinda stunk it up in this. Her very... languid... delivery... of... the... lines... went too far through dreamlike and right into hammy. It's a very eccentric performance.

(And anyway Hannibal isn't dreamtime; it's a waking nightmare.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:35 AM on May 17, 2014 [3 favorites]


I sat there with my mouth hanging open for the entire episode.

So did Mason.
posted by crossoverman at 8:54 AM on May 17, 2014 [4 favorites]


Gillian Anderson's portrayal of Bedelia is spot on, in my opinion. She's utterly shit-scared about what she's done because of the influence of Hannibal and what could happen to her if Hannibal was to find her and yet she's hiding it behind the facade of professionalism and control. She is thinking of every single word that comes out of her mouth so of course it is slow and considered. I think Bedelia is mesmerising in her absolute knowledge of what Hannibal is and what he's capable of and how very difficult it will be to trip him up.
posted by h00py at 9:07 AM on May 17, 2014 [8 favorites]


There's also the possibility--there's so much mirroring--that basically Hannibal is setting Will up to kill Jack at the same time that Will is setting up Hannibal to maybe-not-actually-kill-Jack-but-possibly.

They are, after all, the same.
posted by Sequence at 9:28 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


I think Bedelia is mesmerising in her absolute knowledge of what Hannibal is and what he's capable of and how very difficult it will be to trip him up.

When she said the famous "whimsy" line I shrieked aloud and scared the puppy who then farted in revenge.
posted by elizardbits at 9:43 AM on May 17, 2014 [6 favorites]


I'm sometimes a little distressed by how this show over time is influencing my ability to think that it's totally normal, say, to refer to the throat-slitting fantasy as "the sex scene".
posted by Sequence at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2014 [7 favorites]


I am thinking that Bedelia's hint--about Hannibal persuading you to kill someone you love--means Hannibal's going to try and set up Will to kill Alana.

Really? I thought that conversation led very neatly into the last scene. Is Hannibal manipulating Will into suggesting that Hannibal kill Jack? Or is Will manipulating Hannibal into trying to kill Jack so that he gets caught? IS IT BOTH? IT'S BOTH!
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:55 AM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


[One comment deleted; please skip the "in the promo for next week I saw that x happens." Thanks.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:00 AM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


Also I am really interested to see what role Freddie plays next year as her character is now 100% outside of extant canon. I hope it is something worthy of her glorious hair like riding into battle astride the Dire Ravenstag.
posted by elizardbits at 10:03 AM on May 17, 2014 [9 favorites]


Gillian Anderson's portrayal of Bedelia is spot on, in my opinion. She's utterly shit-scared about what she's done because of the influence of Hannibal and what could happen to her if Hannibal was to find her and yet she's hiding it behind the facade of professionalism and control.

I think she also sounds a bit as if she's self-prescribing, which would not be at all surprising. Hannibal seems to put nearly everyone he encounters into an altered state of consciousness one way or another.

Meanwhile, I know Will tries his best, but Sarah MacLachlan really needs to find those poor dogs a more suitable home.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:45 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


Really? I thought that conversation led very neatly into the last scene. Is Hannibal manipulating Will into suggesting that Hannibal kill Jack? Or is Will manipulating Hannibal into trying to kill Jack so that he gets caught? IS IT BOTH? IT'S BOTH!

Yeah, I don't even know anymore. But Bedelia raised the idea that Hannibal knows that Will is playing him. I... I think that might be the case, but (imo) he doesn't know how thoroughly committed Will is to catching his fish, or that Jack is right there waiting with a net.

We know that Will gave Alana a (Chekhov's) gun, and she's been practicing with it, and Hannibal knows she's been practicing with it. It will come into play. We know that something happens that causes the insane Jack/Hannibal fight from the fiashforward at the beginning of the season.

I'm sometimes a little distressed by how this show over time is influencing my ability to think that it's totally normal, say, to refer to the throat-slitting fantasy as "the sex scene".

You mean the softly lit scene where Will looks up at his murderhusband and does... something that causes his face to get splashed with hot bodily fluids?
posted by lovecrafty at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2014


"I think she also sounds a bit as if she's self-prescribing"

This is a really interesting idea, and makes sense.

I felt so wrung-out after that episode! I know there have been a alot of gross-out tableauxs in this series, but somehow I hit my "I'M FULL TO TEH BRIM WITH GROSSNESS!" limit.

The morning after, I find I'm very disturbed by Will just standing by while Mason continues to slice off pieces of his face. GAH. I mean, I know they built Mason up to be really contemptible, but somehow I feel like Will has really lost his humanity at this point.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:51 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


Also, check out the huge heavy golden collar on Margot at the end. SUPER SUBTLE, SHOW.
posted by lovecrafty at 10:53 AM on May 17, 2014 [3 favorites]


I was giggling uncontrollably at Mason, uh, feeding Will's dogs. This says nothing good about me as a person, I realize.
posted by dogheart at 11:05 AM on May 17, 2014 [4 favorites]


I feel like Will has really lost his humanity at this point.

I think Jack's pretty worried about that too. Will's all "no boss, he hasn't said anything incriminating" and Jack's like "but dude YOU MUTILATED A BODY NOT COOL." And that was before the Verger plot and the "slipped in the barn, pigs ate my face" cover story that Mason and Margot spun to Jack.

Other stuff: Hannibal's balletic fighting moves. Would have worked if not for SURPRISE TASER. Also, the implication that even attacked from behind he was able to deliberately stick disposable-henchman-brother in exactly the most lethal place.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:17 AM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


Will: "Hey buddy, what are you doing on the porch?"
Winston: "Trust me, you do NOT want to go in there."

So many horrible, cringeworthy scenes in this episode, the worst being the very idea of fish jello.
posted by bibliowench at 11:43 AM on May 17, 2014 [4 favorites]


Speaking of the dogs, does anybody know where they got them for the show (sorry if this is a little off topic)? I may have missed an article somewhere about it, but I'm really curious. Did they really pull them from a rescue, or are they like, dogs specifically trained for acting roles? Who takes care of them when they aren't on the job?
posted by Gymnopedist at 12:14 PM on May 17, 2014


I like how Hannibal has been sneaking human into Jack's meals. He knows Jack won't eat any more gourmet offal from his kitchen, so has been serving him ostentatiously non-human seafood set in gelatine leached from human bones. Oh, that japester!
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 12:47 PM on May 17, 2014 [5 favorites]


Speaking of the dogs, does anybody know where they got them for the show (sorry if this is a little off topic)? I may have missed an article somewhere about it, but I'm really curious. Did they really pull them from a rescue, or are they like, dogs specifically trained for acting roles? Who takes care of them when they aren't on the job?

They're undoubtedly professionally trained showbiz dogs, owned by an animal trainer(s) who works with them on set (maybe one of these). I mean, my several civilian dogs are lying around the living room calmly at the moment looking a lot like Will's pack, but they would not be doing that if you rolled in a bunch of filmmaking equipment and people and noises.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:56 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


I was giggling uncontrollably at Mason, uh, feeding Will's dogs. This says nothing good about me as a person, I realize.

posted by dogheart at 11:05 AM on May 17


It says that as a dog, though, you are awesome.
posted by localroger at 1:20 PM on May 17, 2014 [3 favorites]


The thing Gillian Anderson is best at is that astonishing stillness, and Mads is much the same. You could probably have an entire episode of them just looking at each other.

It just struck me: why are we assuming that Bedelia is telling the truth?
posted by Grangousier at 1:26 PM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


TV guide interview

FULLER SAYS MURDER HUSBANDS.
posted by The Whelk at 1:40 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


You could probably have an entire episode of them just looking at each other.

Someone already made a trailer for that show!
posted by bcwinters at 2:08 PM on May 17, 2014 [7 favorites]


So does Michael Pitt just have to sit out the next three seasons or what?
posted by shakespeherian at 2:51 PM on May 17, 2014


Fuller has already said there will be a Verger arc in Season 3.
posted by localroger at 2:55 PM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


why are we assuming that Bedelia is telling the truth?

Because season 1. We've seen Bedelia and Hannibal interacting quite a bit, and she is clearly terrified and very respectful of him -- which is probably what he likes about seeing her.

I don't think Bedelia knows everything because she's still alive when we meet her. She doesn't know Hannibal is the Chesapeake Ripper. But she knows he possesses a terrible power and willingness to use it, even casually, and she knows he is capable of being something very much like the Ripper. She knows that if she crosses him he will cross her off the list of the living like a man scraping a bit of gum off his shoe. She knows that he is quite capable of doing that by persuading her to do something that would ruin herself.

I'm glad we had a visit from her before the scales fall in ep 13 and the bloodbath ensues, because it will be our last look at her thinking she is the only person who understands what Hannibal might be. When we meet her next she will not only no longer be alone in her knowledge about Hannibal, she will know that when she thought herself alone there were in fact potential allies whose presence she missed, and that her silence enabled him to do far more than she was realizing. I would expect Gillian Anderson to have a ball playing with that.
posted by localroger at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


Kind of interested that Will is using Hannibal's method here. Bedelia says that Hannibal will force Will to kill someone h loves, but it's Hannibal's assertion that Jack Crawford is a friend that follows Will's push to get Hannibal to reveal himself.

But then, I read the whole "Hannibal as Will's sacrificial victim" scene at the Verger estate as the moment where Will was *really* being tempted to kill someone he loves. Hannibal has been pretty up front about nurturing Will's desire to kill *him*, and earlier, when Matthew Brown had him trussed up, Hannibal suggested (however bitterly) that Brown could consume him and thereby become him.

So perhaps that's Hannibal's culimination, as well as the reason for all the Christ imagery; Hannibal wishes to be sacrificed, not to redeem another by being reborn, but rather so that his murder style and his *sins* can be reborn in someone else.
posted by kewb at 3:24 PM on May 17, 2014 [3 favorites]


Bedelia's story makes sense and I don't really see any reason to doubt her. The reason she told it the way she decided to give the information and guidance she did, though, I think was:

1. To take all of the blame for the death she witnessed, so that she'll be in Hannibal's good graces and able to come back. She's got immunity from the state, and she's probably hoping to find a way to get "immunity" from Hannibal, or at least a pardon.

2. To warn Will that she's on to *him.* She knows what's up with Hannibal and she knows what's up with the cat-and-mouse game that Will and Hannibal are playing. I think that she's legitimately on Will's side, in a similar way to how he was on Abigail's side -- I think she feels a sense of responsibility toward him. So I think that she was trying to signal to him that she understood his position, that she's his ally, and warning him what to look out for.
posted by rue72 at 3:41 PM on May 17, 2014


I just realized Pitt's Verger is really just a broad Andy Rooney impression.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:15 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


Hannibal is going to have a hell of a time getting Matteo's arterial blood out of his hardwood floors.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 4:32 PM on May 17, 2014


Hannibal is going to have a hell of a time getting Matteo's arterial blood out of his hardwood floors.

"I noticed you refinished your floors. What color is that, now?"

"Red Violin."
posted by Sequence at 4:36 PM on May 17, 2014 [4 favorites]


I just realized Pitt's Verger is really just a broad Andy Rooney impression.

You know what really grinds my gears? People not being murdered.
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2014 [8 favorites]


Rewatching cause sometimes time reverses
posted by The Whelk at 5:28 PM on May 17, 2014


I just realized Pitt's Verger is really just a broad Andy Rooney impression.

I actually thought it was a tribute to David Lynch - "Jimmy Stewart from Mars". Or in this case, from Hell.
posted by Grangousier at 5:59 PM on May 17, 2014 [1 favorite]


Michael Pitt's performance in this episode was great. Especially with the makeup for the face cutting scene.
posted by Pendragon at 6:08 PM on May 17, 2014


Okay how did I miss that Will is doing what Bedelia said Hannibal would try, make someone kill someone they're close to and make it look like the only way. He's finally one step ahead of Hannibal.
posted by The Whelk at 6:16 PM on May 17, 2014 [5 favorites]


I don't know about ahead, but at least on the same page.
posted by Sequence at 7:40 PM on May 17, 2014


also I feel the need to mention I walked past The Bacon Bar in Hell's Kitchen today and they had a little black pet pig on a leash outside and it was adorable and distrubing
posted by The Whelk at 8:31 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


I am really sad that we're approaching plain old regular Fridays again instead of The Best Day of the Week Fridays.
posted by neuromodulator at 10:31 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


I think if there's any proof that media does not cause people to become psychopathic killers, it will be the failure of the murder rate to escalate precipitously in June.
posted by Sequence at 10:55 PM on May 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


On the other hand sales of plaid blazers skyrocket
posted by The Whelk at 7:54 AM on May 18, 2014 [2 favorites]


The catch-up convo between Will and Jack was interesting to me, because wasn't that Will straight up lying about what Hannibal has said when he claims Hannibal hasn't explicitly admitted anything? Does he figure his own testimony is totally inadmissible, so why bother telling Jack anything that isn't going to get Lecter caught but good?

It's the first thing that's made me say, Woah there Will, What? and question his plan.
posted by carsonb at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2014


Hannibal hasn't given Will a tour of the murder basement. Hannibal hasn't said, hey, can you get a kidney out of the fridge for dinner tonight; the three in there are from the string trio I murdered a few months ago so they'll all be good. Hannibal hasn't given Will any information that he could take back to Jack to be used to convince a judge to grant them a warrant.

And Will notes that he was a one-time serial murder suspect so it would be his word against Hannibal's, and the other is a well-respected, well-connected member of the community. [And Jack responds by saying it might be two against one, revealing up Bedelia.]

Also what has Hannibal said? They've talked generally about killing but I don't think Hannibal has said anything straight out. There's no "I am the Chesapeake Ripper", no "I killed Abigail", just vague statements that might not be convincing. But even this would require Will to be wearing a wire, which would bring up complications what with all Will has said to draw Hannibal out.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:36 AM on May 18, 2014


joseph conrad: The morning after, I find I'm very disturbed by Will just standing by while Mason continues to slice off pieces of his face. GAH. I mean, I know they built Mason up to be really contemptible, but somehow I feel like Will has really lost his humanity at this point.

As with eating Freddie Lounds (actually Randall Tier) I don't think Will had a choice. Or, rather, the other option was to give up his deception of Hannibal.

It was certainly easier for Will to not immediately jump in because he despises Mason but there was also nothing to be gained from acting out of character. Will did persuade Hannibal to stop the madness (by breaking Mason's neck) after which Mason was presumably rushed to his private medical care facility.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:40 AM on May 18, 2014


I don't think he's really lying about Hannibal not having given him anything concrete, but I also think he's really being misleading to Jack about how much Hannibal has given him. But he's conflicted, isn't he? This isn't just fishing, anymore. At some level, he likes this. At some level, what Hannibal is offering him is more attractive than what Jack's offering him.
posted by Sequence at 9:55 AM on May 18, 2014 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he wanted Mason punished and Margot in control. He wasn't going to interfere with that part of the plan.

But Hannibal has not ever said anything directly incriminating. Indirectly, yes.
posted by tel3path at 10:25 AM on May 18, 2014


If only flowery metaphors where admissible evidence
posted by The Whelk at 10:26 AM on May 18, 2014 [1 favorite]


However you could be right that what Hannibal is offering is more attractive than what Jack is offering.

That's how Hannibal operates. That's why Alana was so "stupid" for as long as Hannibal was the one offering her the best deal. It's all in "Evolutionary Origins of Stigmatization" where having something to offer is what makes people keep you around.

Will is torn between two men, being pulled around by both of them. I hope they're both underestimating him and that HE is in charge.
posted by tel3path at 10:27 AM on May 18, 2014


It's a nice touch how Will says "kill Jack then" and Hannibal objects "Jack and I have always been friends," which shows that he is just that bit reluctant to kill his friends.
posted by tel3path at 10:34 AM on May 18, 2014 [1 favorite]


Oh, but the sheer joy of seeing Hannibal drawing Hannigram fan art. The snake that bites its own tail.
posted by tel3path at 10:36 AM on May 18, 2014 [5 favorites]


Remember when all this stuff was usually just relegated to strange dark corners of fandom and not like, actual on screen canon?
posted by The Whelk at 10:38 AM on May 18, 2014 [6 favorites]


The fanfic writers are all just sitting motionless right now.
posted by tel3path at 10:39 AM on May 18, 2014 [3 favorites]


Staring at their hands

"what have we done?"
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on May 18, 2014 [1 favorite]


So, when Hannibal was making the aspic for Fish Jello - it looked like the first jawbone-thing was from some kind of animal, but did the second jaw we saw have fillings in the teeth so presumably human?
posted by rmd1023 at 11:03 AM on May 18, 2014


Remember when all this stuff was usually just relegated to strange dark corners of fandom and not like, actual on screen canon?

This show is its own fandom. The Supernatural crew, for instance, wouldn't use the phrase "murder husbands" in a non-mocking context, but here's Fuller, shipping his own characters and flower-crowning the dog in his off hours.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:36 AM on May 18, 2014 [7 favorites]


So, when Hannibal was making the aspic for Fish Jello - it looked like the first jawbone-thing was from some kind of animal, but did the second jaw we saw have fillings in the teeth so presumably human?

I think the scenes were cut so that we saw Will making dog food in a similar way and at the same time as Hannibal making Jack's dinner.

Remember when Will was saying that he imagined he was doing the same things at the same time as GJH? I think that's happening now. When he was having sex with Margot he was also imagining that Alana and Hannibal were having sex at the same time and then that he was with them (and the Wendigo!).

Maybe those intercut scenes and Hannibal's unwillingness to kill Jack (and total willingness to feed him) also means that Hannibal's feelings toward Jack are similar to Will's feelings toward his dogs!
posted by rue72 at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2014 [2 favorites]


Hannibal is being a very slippery fish. He hasn't said enough. They need undeniable physical evidence, or the testimony of another living victim. Will-the-empathic-oddball-who-just-got-out-of-prison's testimony by itself won't cut it.

If Will and Jack get a warrant for the murderbasement or if Will arrests Hannibal, they'll show their hand. They'll never ever get another chance. They need to know they have him.
posted by lovecrafty at 1:12 PM on May 18, 2014 [1 favorite]


Apparently that fish in aspic thing was a real pain in the arse to make. Janice Poon's blog was really fascinating this week.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 3:19 PM on May 18, 2014 [3 favorites]


From Ms. Poon's blog: This episode is named for Tome wan, the penultimate course of a Kaiseki dinner. A simple miso soup with rice, it signifies the end of the meal. Just desserts will follow.

Do tell!
posted by localroger at 3:57 PM on May 18, 2014 [2 favorites]


I love how scandalized Hannibal was when Mason stabbed his chair. It's the only time I remember seeing him shocked.
posted by fozzie_bear at 9:17 PM on May 18, 2014 [3 favorites]


His jaw actually drops. Considering we've been dealing with fleeting micro-expressions for Hanniabal it's nice to see him so open and natural with his loathing.

I do like the glimpses we get of Hannibal's actual emotional state from behind the Person Suit, this is just the first time he's done it in his office with a patient. He hates him SO MUCH that he's kind of in awe how awful Mason is.
posted by The Whelk at 10:11 PM on May 18, 2014 [6 favorites]


I'm sorry, send me the bill!
posted by shakespeherian at 10:15 PM on May 18, 2014


Mads does wonderfully that weird smile that people do when they're suddenly rendered luminous with rage - I'm unlucky enough to have the kind of personality that induces it from time to time. It's interesting that Mason isn't rude: rudeness is unfinishedness, crudity: when Hannibal says "Eat the rude", he's not (just) saying that uncouth people should be punished, but invoking the principle that by eating with care we refine the food, separating out the higher from the lower. We rid ourselves of the lower later on, in private, but it's the transmutation to the higher that is his aim.

(Interesting that there's only been one mention of faeces, to my memory at least. Just as I can only remember one funeral despite all the deaths, and that was a fake.)

So the rude, the uncouth, are simply acting mechanically, unmindful and unconscious of their actions and the consequences of their actions, and are little more than animals anyway.

Mason isn't rude. Mason knows exactly what he's doing, and is acting fully mindfully. When he stabs Hannibal's chair (having just, apparently casually, spattered Hannibal's drawings with insults, looking for Hannibal's soft spot) he hurts Hannibal once. Then, by offering money to pay for the chair, he attacks Hannibal much more deeply, by reducing this investment of his taste to the status of a mere, easily replaceable, acquisition.

Thinking about that, Hannibal and Mason are interesting opposites - I would say two magicians, black and white, were it not for the fact that there isn't a white magician here.

Mason is the Sadean - to him food would be shit-of-the-future (Sade, at least the Sade of 120 Days of Sodom, was obsessed with shit), and in his interactions with people, he's constantly probing them to find the soft areas, their sentimentality, the things they love, so that they can be stripped away, leaving the person denuded of those things that make them human, apparently for Mason's own entertainment (although he seems to think that what he's doing to Margot is for her own good, and has inherited a strict, though strange and morally inverted, code of responsibility to others, assuming that others are livestock, from his father).

On the other hand, Hannibal is an alchemist - his aim is to refine the rude, the base, raising them up to the higher elements. Hannibal's twin careers as therapist and cannibal - which, on first sight seem so curiously matched - are reconciled in this; They are both strategies for refining patients. That he has to kill and eat people in order to do this for them is a regrettable idiosyncrasy of his philosophy.

At least Mason, generally speaking, leaves people alive, physically anyway.
posted by Grangousier at 3:07 AM on May 19, 2014 [11 favorites]


And of course Hannibal is telling Mason that he's nothing more than meat. But he's not worthy of transmutation. He's dog food.
posted by Grangousier at 3:21 AM on May 19, 2014 [7 favorites]


So... when Will is talking to Jack and proposing using Mason as 'bait,' Will doesn't even hint at Mason being a Really Bad Guy. He talks as if Mason is just a regular patient of Hannibal's who Will has no real connection to.

During that scene I was wondering why, but I think I get it now. I don't think Will really ever intended to follow the plan he was proposing to Jack of using Mason to entrap Hannibal. I think he knew deep down that it wouldn't work, because he DID want Hannibal to torture and/or kill Mason. And then afterwards he could have the plausible deniability of saying "Oh, no, he outsmarted me!"

And when Jack went to visit Mason... he KNEW Will intended to set Hannibal on him. And now he's been mutilated "by pigs." Will Jack realize what Will did? How will that affect their relationship?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:35 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]


Except that before anyone could make a move, Mason's goons kidnapped Hannibal to feed *him* to pigs. Will cut Hannibal loose and came to after it was too late.

BUT the only reason Mason's goons kidnapped Hannibal was because Will tipped them off last week.

Oh dear.
posted by tel3path at 9:41 AM on May 19, 2014


I don't think Will really ever intended to follow the plan he was proposing to Jack of using Mason to entrap Hannibal. I think he knew deep down that it wouldn't work, because he DID want Hannibal to torture and/or kill Mason. And then afterwards he could have the plausible deniability of saying "Oh, no, he outsmarted me!"

He did try to lead Hannibal into attacking Mason ASAP, first by floating the idea of Hannibal killing Mason at Mason's next therapy appointment, and then by suggesting he do it even earlier if that would be too late. So I think he was intending to follow the plan he proposed to Jack.

Jack didn't seem to buy that plan too well, though, since then he went to Hannibal himself to try and get a read on him (at the Ukrainian and Russian dinner). The plan also didn't make any sense in the first place, because there's not really anything to charge Hannibal with unless he straight up kills Mason, and even then -- if it's alone in a therapy appointment, where's the proof that it was murder?

Honestly, I don't know if Will is being crazy like a fox or just crazy at this point. I think that Jack is having the same dilemma. Also, Jack must be ready to gnaw off his own tongue, listening to Will say they have nothing on Hannibal, Bedelia say she's the one who killed her patient and she's witnessed nothing criminal from Hannibal, Mason say that it was the pigs that disfigured and paralyzed him, not Hannibal.

It's funny, when Will was in this position last season he started getting really scared and feeling guilty, etc. Now that Jack is in the position of knowing something he has no proof for and no way to make others believe, he's getting pissed and reckless.
posted by rue72 at 2:03 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]


I should mention that I googled Achilles and Patroclus just now and after Wikipedia the first results were some gay porn images, followed by a whole section on AO3. High school AUs, the works.
posted by tel3path at 4:09 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]


Margot's Necklace?

I found it uncharacteristically cheap looking. But I bet I could make a good enough version for everyday purposes.

Do we agree that Margot's jacket was more orange than red?
posted by tel3path at 4:13 PM on May 19, 2014


So are Margot's necklaces collars because she's shackled by her wealth, her crazy brother, etc or are they metaphorical gorgets, indicating that she's armored up and ready for battle?

Or, you know, just a dramatic fashion statement.
posted by PussKillian at 6:17 PM on May 19, 2014


Apparently that fish in aspic thing was a real pain in the arse to make. Janice Poon's blog was really fascinating this week.

This is the first time I've seen her blog and OH MY it is delightful. Thank you!!
posted by mudpuppie at 6:28 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]


Do we agree that Margot's jacket was more orange than red?


blood orange?

posted by elizardbits at 7:01 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]


It's only Tuesday, but between the imminent Hannibal and Americans finales, I'm all tenterhooked out, man!
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:39 AM on May 20, 2014




whoa This IS Our Design has an interview with the director of episodes 2 and 8

I generally really like this podcast (in particular Kate's thoughts on the scoring of the show are always interesting), but was slightly disappointed they didn't pick Natali's brain a little more about the episodes he directed himself. It's still a fun edition of the podcast overall though.
posted by sparkletone at 1:23 PM on May 20, 2014


You know considering the face-swapping they've been doing of late... it's possible Hannibal sees himself as Patroclus, since he also replaced Will on the field of battle earlier in the season.

On the face of it, it makes more sense for Hannibal to be Achilles because he's harsh to everyone else, but "kind" to Patroclus. But you could say Will is more tender towards Hannibal than he is towards others; at least other killers. Sorta.

Ah, who am I kidding? Hannibal is for Hannibal. He wouldn't be drawing fan art of his own death scene.

TWO DAYS TO GO

nailbite nailbite

IF WE HAVE A PEDESTRIAN ENDING WITHOUT LOADS OF BIZARRE TWISTS I AM ASKING NBC FOR MY MONEY BACK
posted by tel3path at 8:59 AM on May 21, 2014


it's just an hour of paperwork and idle office calls.
posted by The Whelk at 9:03 AM on May 21, 2014


I'll not be able to see it until at least Sunday night, possibly Monday at some point. So's you know.
posted by Grangousier at 3:18 PM on May 21, 2014


IF WE HAVE A PEDESTRIAN ENDING

Oh I wouldn't worry, at the very least the last couple of episodes have shown that we have a metric buttload of reveals waiting to be uncloaked and we also know there's a megafight death match in the offing between Jack and Hannibal, as well as Bryan's promise that "everyone" is going to hurt. I'd make sure to have extra popcorn on hand.
posted by localroger at 5:37 PM on May 21, 2014


it's just an hour of paperwork and idle office calls.

But the paperwork bleeds into black puddles on the desk top and you can hardly reach your pen because of the thicket of antlers that's sprung up and the phone calls are all to the elks wondering through the wilderness and who is even talking to whom because everyone always stands in a row or stares off into space while they're having conversations.

The finale will be like The Office, if you were watching while on an acid trip and with mismanaged clinical depression.
posted by rue72 at 5:53 PM on May 21, 2014 [1 favorite]


But the paperwork bleeds into black puddles on the desk top

So you think Fuller is going to bring David Lynch in? That would be SO FUCKING COOL. Fanfic pen is twitching at the thought.
posted by localroger at 8:16 PM on May 21, 2014


OH MY GOD. Lynch doing an episode of Hannibal would be as big a deal to me as Bowie showing up as Hannibal's uncle.
posted by sparkletone at 10:25 PM on May 21, 2014 [2 favorites]


I honestly can't remember whether I've mentioned it before, but reviewing Bryan Fuller's career over the last couple of months (I watched everything he's done outside of Star Trek Voyager, I think), it does seem like one giant, slow audition for a potential Twin Peaks reboot.
posted by Grangousier at 5:56 AM on May 22, 2014 [2 favorites]


it's just an hour of paperwork and idle office calls.


Or Hannibal frustrated in line at the University admissions office trying to sort out his CE credit history.
posted by ian1977 at 2:12 PM on May 22, 2014 [1 favorite]


OH MY GOD. Lynch doing an episode of Hannibal would be as big a deal to me as Bowie showing up as Hannibal's uncle.

And Lynch has worked with Bowie already, so let's get Lynch to direct the Bowie episode of Hannibal. Yeah.
posted by crossoverman at 7:46 PM on May 22, 2014 [1 favorite]


And Brian Eno does the score with Angelo Badamalenti (the twin peaks theme song composer I totally just googled. Edit:also........)
posted by ian1977 at 9:07 PM on May 22, 2014


Is everyone shivering with antici . . . . . . pation?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:30 PM on May 23, 2014


Being as this is fanfare and not the Megi thread I am not posting any more predicts outside of the 11th episode.

But it is storming very ...dramatically here.
posted by The Whelk at 5:32 PM on May 23, 2014


Upon rewatching the second season, I really do think the Vergers felt sort of shoehorned into the plot. Not that both actors weren't great, and not that they didn't wind up fitting into the events of the story, but I think you can really sort of tell that they were in the second season just because they had to be, because future events require it. They kinda came out of nowhere.

Face eating was still amazing though
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:23 AM on November 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


I agree with you, Liz. I'm watching the show for the first time, binge-style. I thought I had skipped an episode or something when Margot showed up.
posted by frecklefaerie at 6:39 PM on March 23, 2015


The one detail I felt this episode lacked is that Mason Verger did not speak like a lipless person would. Perfect Ps, Bs, Ms, Fs, and Vs.

If they had gone to the trouble of having Pitt speak without using his lips, I think that would have really driven home what was happening.
posted by ocherdraco at 11:30 AM on May 8, 2015


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