(Get a) Life After Deep Space Nine
December 13, 2016 2:11 PM - Subscribe

Now that the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine rewatch is drawing to a close, we have tossed around some ideas about what Star Trek to cover next in recent threads. Let's organize our thoughts here and hash it out.

The options seem to be:
- Discovery (currently set to premiere May 2017)
- the films, or at least those we haven't recently done?
- Enterprise
- Voyager
- The Next Generation
- and in the interest of equity and completionism, The Animated Series.

It seems like Discovery, when it hits, is an inevitable FanFare focus. But I for one wonder whether we want to set ourselves up for concurrently doing an old show AND the new one at the same time. Might split contributors' attention a bit much, to the detriment of discussion. Yet even ENT is 97 episodes, which if done biweekly still puts us at ~48 weeks, and DSC premieres in somewhere around 20-25. So that'd overlap.

TAS consists of 22 episodes, which would fit pretty well if done one-per-week but, uhhhm… I dunno how serious anybody is about that. I mean, I'd do it…I'd maybe even volunteer to do the posts (even though it's truly the final Trek frontier for me, and I'm not without trepidation). I have no idea how many MeFites are sufficiently Trekker/Trekkie/Trek-curious to boldly go into TAS.

I suppose another option could be an every-other-week movie thread? There's thirteen films, so that math would work out pretty well, even skipping one or two.

Anyway, that's a lot of questions. What do people think?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil (37 comments total)
I assumed TNG had been done years ago! Well, I'd agree that doing two Trek shows at once would split the focus. I think that happened a bit when DS9 and TOS were both being fanfare'd, and TOS participation probably suffered for it.

The movies may be the way to go. I don't think you'll get many participants for TAS. I kind of doubt you'd get a lot of takers for Voyager or Enterprise either, because those shows don't have many passionate fans and they've been off the air for a while. I'm a Voyager fan, but I'm not ready to do a whole rewatch right now and I suspect my participation would mostly be limited to popping into threads to say, "This episode was pretty good! You guys are so mean to this show! Jeez!"

It may be that the new show doesn't get a lot of participants either, just because CBS is hiding it on their new streaming deal. That's such a bonehead move on their part. They're probably going to get like 10% of the audience they could have gotten somewhere else.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:22 PM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've never watched The Animated Series, and would be happy if we did that next.

I was very into TNG, and would like an organized rewatch. I started to go through it again on my own until I noped out after a particularly egregious bit of sexism. To make it all the way through again, I need somewhere to vent and geek out.

I only watched a season or so of Voyager, even less of Enterprise. I'm kind of curious to give Voyager another chance since it seems to still have some fans. I'm dreading Enterprise, but would join the rewatch out of morbid curiousity.

I think if we found that Discovery leads to lower activity in whatever twice-a-week rewatch is happening, we could just decrease it to once-a-week until Discovery goes on hiatus.

As far as the movies, we should do them for completeness I guess, but I feel like they're going to scroll off the front page pretty quickly without generating all that much discussion.
posted by oh yeah! at 2:34 PM on December 13, 2016

In this order, my personal preference is

Animated Series

TMP, Insurrection and Beyond already have threads. I agree with 'oh yeah!' on this. They're one-offs which will scroll off the front page quickly.

I don't think simultaneously posting Discovery and another show will be a problem. Lots of us probably watch more than one show a week.
posted by zarq at 3:17 PM on December 13, 2016

Right now, I'd say VOY, ENT, TNG, whatever.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:03 PM on December 13, 2016

Zarq, we did TOS already.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:07 PM on December 13, 2016

There's a fair amount of diversity in what Trek fans seem to like and dislike so I believe each series would get a fair amount of participation here.

I'd be all over Enterprise, which is second on my list of Trek series after DS9 whereas Voyager is last.
posted by juiceCake at 8:58 PM on December 13, 2016

There's a fair amount of diversity in what Trek fans seem to like and dislike so I believe each series would get a fair amount of participation here.

I suspect you're right. (Except for TAS, of course.)

I too am pretty much down for whatever, but if we did VOY, I would need to be replaced as one of the Regular Threadstarters—my commitment level with VOY would, er, not be sufficient. I'd be happy to continue as one for TNG, though. Mayyybe also ENT.

I may just post a quick II-III-IV "trilogy" of movie threads, maybe right after our DS9 threads wrap.

On a related topic... what's the deal with FanFare clubs? Is there some benefit to them? Are we a Trek Club? Should we be? Is there a "we"?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:02 AM on December 14, 2016

I'm in for anything, including defending Enterprise and Voyager against Trek purists :)
posted by 2ht at 5:39 AM on December 14, 2016

I don't think the audience for a rewatch star trek and a new star trek would necessarily be the same, either - there'd be overlap, obviously, but there are some people out there that will check in for a new series but maybe don't really feel like doing a general rewatch, or at least there's no urgency on it.

My personal preference would be:

TNG (Note: first season will be a lot of me yelling about sexism. I can't say if the yelling about sexism will stop because I never really got past the first season because of sexism)
Animated Series
posted by dinty_moore at 6:19 AM on December 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Zarq, we did TOS already.

AH! Thanks! :)
posted by zarq at 7:31 AM on December 14, 2016

CheesesOfBrazil - I think the clubs are only useful maybe for coordinating on selections for themes, or so the club selections get added to your 'My Fanfare' page automatically. I haven't joined any myself, though. I don't think we need it for Star Trek, since most everything will turn up in one search.
posted by oh yeah! at 12:16 PM on December 14, 2016

I'm up for Voyager. Discovery won't run all year and we can back off the two-a-week routine with whatever is chosen next to cover the new series.
posted by Servo5678 at 2:47 PM on December 14, 2016

Sounds like overall agreement that doing DSC concurrent with another series probably won't be a large issue. Also: oh yeah!, good point about the clubs.

It looks to me like we have an overall split of opinion between VOY and TNG. Maybe it would help narrow things down if we had a sense of who all is willing to do the posts. Like I mentioned above, I'd do one of the two weekly posts for TNG, but somebody else should take my place if it's to be VOY. Jack, you willing to continue in your current role for either or both? Others willing?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:33 AM on December 15, 2016

I'm not sure I could be as creative with the above-the-fold summaries as a lot of these DS9 posts have been. But I could probably chip in on the TNG posts.
posted by oh yeah! at 3:36 PM on December 15, 2016

I can help with VOY or TNG posts. But if I'm going to do it consistently and on schedule, they wouldn't be as in depth as the ones I was doing for DS9.
posted by zarq at 9:26 AM on December 16, 2016

TNG is one of those series that people rewatch a lot, and will attract comments for a long time, not just when initially posted. VOY I think less so. TNG, like TOS, has its dated-ness and problems, but it's the backbone of modern Star Trek. Just my two cents.
posted by rikschell at 2:35 PM on December 16, 2016

My totally accurate, big-data powered measurement shows Voyager as the preferred choice here. Which is somehow only the second most surprising victory this year!

(Couldn't help myself, sorry.)

TNG seems to be a close second and a less divisive option. I have a feeling it would draw more discussion in the long run.
posted by 2ht at 10:50 AM on December 20, 2016

I demand a recount! j/k -_-

I agree with two cents, rikschell, and your feeling, 2ht. *If* fatigue were to set in, it would happen more quickly with VOY than TNG, IMO.

I dunno, guys, I'm super torn. I very much prefer TNG, and the fact that it's now officially aging seems like it'd provide plenty of juice. (For instance, I can envision a recurring section of the posts in which we might check in on what Riker Googling, TNGS8, Worf Email, and their social-media ilk have to say about a particular episode.)

And yet I love Tuvok, and enjoy one or two other VOY characters…plus the deep flaws of that show would also give us plenty of juice too, albeit of perhaps a different flavor (leaving bitter dregs...oh, ohhh, bitter dregs).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:42 AM on December 21, 2016

I mean, at least half the comments on the Buffy rewatch were about what an asshole Xander is in retrospect. Still a great show with a lot of great material, but the flaws really illuminate the time period. In that way, TNG is very parallel to TOS. VOY is more a fine-tuning, in my mind.
posted by rikschell at 9:39 AM on December 21, 2016

Hmm... ya know, it might actually be better to do VOY first, so that TNG could be held back as a sort of palate-cleanser. Especially if DSC turns out to suck.

And the more I think about it, the more I think that VOY being divisive is not really a bad thing at all, in MetaFilter terms.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:52 AM on December 25, 2016

If you don't mind some new voices, I might join in on a Voyager rewatch, even though I just finished the series for the first time a couple weeks ago. Or would it be a first watch? I gather rewatches are more open in discussion terms regarding spoilers and the like, but I hadn't followed the DS9 conversations, so I'm not sure what rules you're following.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:07 AM on December 27, 2016

Or would it be a first watch?

It would be a re-watch. DS9 was a re-watch for most everyone except me, but most of the spoiler discussion was minimal or people were kind enough to start the paragraph with a spoiler warning so I could try to skim past. (Voyager would be a first watch for me again, I only ever watched some of the first season, but don't care about Voyager spoilers.)

I must admit, one of the reasons I'm wanting to do TNG before Voyager is that I only just this month discovered mefite Automocar's & friend's Trekabout podcast. I listened to all of the TOS episodes already, and loved them. They're up to DS9 season 7 now, so I skipped over the TAS & TNG episodes to start listening to those, but I can tell it would be better if I heard the TNG episodes first, but I don't want to have to do a solo re-watch now only to do it again with Fanfare in the future.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:46 AM on December 27, 2016

I wouldn't mind a TNG rewatch either since it's been years since I watched that last, but I might have difficulty getting ahold of those since I'm not netflixed or anything. But that's definitely not a reason to use as a decision maker since I'd try to participate either way.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:56 AM on December 27, 2016

DS9 was my favorite series, so I will, paradoxically, be more interested in whatever else you guys decide on. (I've seen DS9 maybe five times from start to finish, so I was coasting through this, though I do need to go ahead and do the finale when I get a free hour this week - holidays are pleasantly busy this year.)

For me: Discovery won't affect my preferences, I'll be checking it out and participating as much or as little as I can actually stomach the show. I think doing something side-by-side with it would be fine.

I'm probably most interested in a Voyager rewatch because I didn't like most of it - I feel like there's more to pick apart and talk about with failure than success sometimes, and I also saw a fair bit of it only once. Enterprise is similar - only saw it once, I don't think it found its feet until very late in the run, so it should feel more fresh.

That said, I'm a fair weather participant, so no need to count my vote really. Just musing. Also, I wanted to thank everyone for the super thoughtful material about DS9 this past rewatch. I only posted a little, but I read everything.
posted by mordax at 9:58 AM on December 27, 2016

Shall we start with Voyager and see where it goes? It is nearly the beginning of the year, after all.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:17 PM on December 30, 2016

Sounds like we have a rough consensus for that. But who's going to post them?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:07 AM on December 31, 2016

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:45 PM on December 31, 2016

Well, Jack, if you're down, I guess I am too; Mrs. CoB has decided she wants to rewatch VOY anyway, for the purposes of a longitudinal study to try and determine what Janeway's D&D alignment would be. And this would be my first really analytical VOY rewatch. But I reserve the right to bow out and recruit a replacement if said analytical rewatch ends up depressing me.

One other possible discussion topic: any requests/ideas for any format changes for the threadstarting posts?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:21 AM on January 1, 2017

What kind of schedule do these rewatches follow? I mean how many episodes a week and the like? I'd be willing to make some posts, but I'm, hopefully, moving late this month so it'd have to be after that once I find and get settled into a new place.

Regarding Voyager, without spoiling anything, my general take on it is that it was just a little ahead of its time and got caught between what they wanted it to be, something a little more adult or darker, and what they thought it needed to be to fit with TNG, a generally more upbeat and cooperative affair. That skewed some of the characters from what they were suggestive of, to a more watered down version, leaving a lot of the most interesting aspects of the show in the subtext rather than up front, as they might have been had they gone a little more "Battlestar Galattica" with the show as they had first hoped.

There are some real drawbacks in this, with a lot of episodes being a little drab or silly on the surface, but at the same time, they did at least hint at more involving ideas just underneath the surface. For example, I find Janeway to be the most compelling Captain of those they've shown on starships, not as fun or good perhaps as Kirk or Picard, but more complex in some ways. So I think there might be plenty of things to talk about even in the more tedious episodes if we can get a bit beyond the plot level stuff. (Which I imagine happened with DS9, but I haven't seen much of that show yet, so I didn't read the threads.)
posted by gusottertrout at 10:36 AM on January 1, 2017

What we did for DS9 was Halloween Jack would put up a post sometime on Monday, and I'd put one up sometime on Thursday. So two a week. Any reason to change that? (Thursdays remain far better for me than Mondays.)

FWIW I've begun piecing together the thread for the premiere, since, Jack, you did the DS9 finale. If we move ahead with this plan, I'll post it Thursday.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:56 PM on January 1, 2017

Sounds good to me. The only change I'd suggest would be that the poster could feel free to include some personal observations in the body of the post. Especially WRT some of the more questionable episodes--by which, I of course mean "Threshold"--it might be a bit more fun.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:01 PM on January 1, 2017

Especially WRT some of the more questionable episodes--by which, I of course mean "Threshold"--it might be a bit more fun.

So, would it be wrong to mention that I really wanted a show where Threshold like incidents were more the norm and Federation as usual less prevalent? I don't want to get kicked out of the Voyager watch club before it starts, but I figure there's some things its better to be honest about up front.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:05 AM on January 2, 2017

I certainly don't have a problem with that stance, gusottertrout. In fact, I don't think that I'd be terribly presumptuous in saying that what many if not most of us enjoyed most about DS9 is that it was often very much not Federation-as-usual much of the time. There are also many Voyager eps in which it's very much not FAU. (The argument vs. "Threshold" IMO is that it was done pretty badly, not that it was attempted at all.) One of the big arguments against VOY overall is that it was itself too much FAU, with the ship being almost as cherry after seven years in the Delta Quadrant as it was after seven hours (more, really, since it was pretty torn up after the Caretaker yanked it there). There's a really good interview with Ron Moore, who was one of the prominent writers on TNG and DS9 and spent only a very short time on VOY before leaving, and whose thoughts about what went wrong on the show and how things could have gone I'm pretty much 100% behind. (They are also instructive regarding Moore's Battlestar Galactica reboot, although that's not mentioned here.) It's long and oddly formatted, but I think it's worth the perusal.

Oh! Before I forget: is this going to be considered a rewatch for tagging purposes? I mean, can we mention the eventual introduction of S---- of N---?
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:41 PM on January 2, 2017

It occurred to me that you may have meant that "Federation-as-usual" as more like the usual seeking out new life forms and civilizations, boldly going wherever type of stuff, and "Threshold" as being more along the lines of weird science. (What if Neelix tinkered with the transporter and it created duplicates of the crew that were the people that their parents wished that they were?) And VOY has those, along with stuff like "Bride of Chaotica!".
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:29 PM on January 2, 2017

Really a bit of both. Voyager kept too much of the TNG tone, when that made no sense, and often maintained the same sort of exploratory premise and result as both the earlier shows when they had reason and chance to be bolder. I'm intentionally being a little vague I guess since this will probably be better discussed once we start watching the episodes.

I'll just say Moore's comments do more or less fit with my thinking, though I would have perhaps put the emphasis on somewhat different areas than Moore, and what I take to be a sort of proto-Battlestar idea he had for the show. (I don't think that's an entirely wrong take, but that it wasn't the only way to go with it. For example, talk of running low on supplies and trade doesn't excite me much since those kinds of episodes aren't generally the better ones.)

The best episodes, or at least ideas, tended to be around events and situations further removed from Federation space conduct, where the crew has to test Alpha ideals against Delta reality, so to speak. Moore's right in that the initial episode sets up a premise that isn't followed very closely with the Maquis, but the show could have worked better even without following that thread and just focused on being a Federation ship in the Delta sector and still worked fine.

In any case, it's definitely the show that could most benefit from a reboot as they left so much on the table that they could have looked at, but didn't much, preferring to stick to a more settled formula instead, despite that not making much sense in this context.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:06 AM on January 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh! Before I forget: is this going to be considered a rewatch for tagging purposes? I mean, can we mention the eventual introduction of S---- of N---?

Seems that way, since DS9 was.

and "Threshold" as being more along the lines of weird science. (What if Neelix tinkered with the transporter and it created duplicates of the crew that were the people that their parents wished that they were?) And VOY has those, along with stuff like "Bride of Chaotica!".

I friggin' loved the Chaotica stuff. In fact, a strong case could be made that Voyager has the most fun with itself than any other Trek.

The only change I'd suggest would be that the poster could feel free to include some personal observations in the body of the post. Especially WRT some of the more questionable episodes--by which, I of course mean "Threshold"--it might be a bit more fun.

Good call. Might help spark some conversation/debate. I'll work that into the "Caretaker" post.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:17 AM on January 3, 2017

In case anybody missed it!
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:55 AM on January 8, 2017

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