Star Trek: Picard: No Win Scenario

March 9, 2023 5:50 AM - Season 3, Episode 4

The Titan attempts a laborious escape.

Memory Alpha substitutes admins for assholes:

• The title, "No Win Scenario", is a generic reference to the Kobayashi Maru scenario, a name that has been previously used as the title of the DIS Season 4 episode "Kobayashi Maru" (FF previously --ed.) and the PRO Season 1 episode "Kobayashi" (FF previously --ed.).

• Picard mentions Argelius IV, which may be in the same system as Argelius II, on which Scotty took shore leave in TOS: "Wolf in the Fold."

• The Hirogen, mentioned by Picard, were an antagonist species in a few episodes of VOY.

• Liam Shaw reveals he is from Chicago, Illinois. The actor who portrays Shaw, Todd Stashwick, is from Chicago as well.

"I think we need to talk about the elephant in the room."
"Yes, of course."
"...The hair."
- Jack and Jean-Luc

"It's like space itself was burning."
- Shaw, on the Battle of Wolf 359

"I think we should boldly get the hell out of here."
- Riker

Poster's Log:
Is this the most total screen time we have ever spent in the same Star Trek nebula?

Much improved writing this time around. No real cringey bits, some solid thrills, and even some impactful meditations on death and birth. I think I only rolled my eyes a little bit, and that was just when Jack showed up in his hat. I saw the Riker parts of season 1 a couple of times and I don't recall noticing marital problems between Will and Deanna that were quite this serious, but maybe I just missed it. (It IS unfortunate that the Space Babies make the exact same "ooO-ooO" noise as Oh-Face guy from Office Space.)

When did Changelings get so meaty?! Yeesh.

It seems Paramount Plus does not allow you to pause without shrinking the show down to a tiny window (the better to advertise). Unfortunate, then, that the "shut down the portal weapon" scene ends with an obvious "READ THIS TEXT ON FREEZE-FRAME!" moment on that bit of jettisoned whatever-it-is. Maybe one of you had a bigger screen than mine.

Holodeck-As-Emergency-Therapy-Room is a clever conceit to both (A) explain why holodecks kept working in previous ship-power-loss situations, and (B) allow for some DISCO-esque feelings talk during crisis in a more plausible fashion than DISCO's.

Interesting comm device Vadic uses to contact her evil master. I wonder if they call it a "handset" THANK YOU G'NIGHT

Whatever the "something bigger" is that's going on, I still can't fully pre-map how they get from all this to Lore and Moriarty. And I really don't want to get my hopes up, but Vadic being a Changeling suggests a stronger DS9 connection to this show than I have heretofore speculated about. But at any rate, it's safe to say we haven't seen the last of Vadic and her people, or as we might call them, the Vadic Assembly THANK YOU G'NIGHT

No Worf/Raffi at all in this one, which makes me suspect the next one might be the All-Worf-'n'-Raffi Show. It'd make sense, pacing-wise, for them to shed a little more light on the villains for us next time. In fact, I feel like they kind of have to, because I realized I felt surprised that this was episode 4 already, given how little we know.

Poster's Log, Supplemental:
Speaking of unlikely spinoffs, if they DO try to make a Jack Crusher show, I'll probably watch it if Shaw joins him in his wacky adventures. But realistically, Jack is I think not long for this world, considering his visions and his status as a captain's kid.

posted by CheesesOfBrazil (82 comments total)

They couldn't bring in Sisko for this, so Shaw is a survivor of Wolf 359 who can throw that resentment at Picard. I still like Shaw the most, and it really felt like the writers decided to make him a fuller character as this goes.

Deanna and Riker have a daughter too, right? Wonder how she is, since everyone seems to have forgotten her existence, especially her father. Guess she can go hang out with Alexander.

This did feel like a more solid episode, my gripes with the always available holodeck aside.
posted by nubs at 6:57 AM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

READ THIS TEXT ON FREEZE-FRAME

It said "Daystrom Institute."

I've been enjoying this season, uneven writing aside, but this episode rankled me. Something about being in a no-win scenario and taking that time to sit around in a bar for an hour idling... didn't work for me. Even though in some ways it's more realistic and in many ways more beautiful than the way a similar scenario would've been handled on TNG, and surely we've banked enough hours of THAT approach, that I should've appreciated it more.
posted by thejoshu at 7:00 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm pretty sure that Riker mentioned his daughter also in the first episode when he said that it would be good to be away from his wife. Also when he was listing family members to Jack.
posted by Spike Glee at 7:30 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

Also thought it was fitting this episode, which does everything but namecheck the Kobayashu Maru in terms of laying out the various no-win scenarios present, did reference the Tamarians by name.
posted by nubs at 8:02 AM on March 9, 2023

Social media indications suggest that Paramount is aware that this episode streamed with incorrect brightness…settings or something, and is planning to re-release it in a corrected version in a day or two. (In case I wasn't the only one wondering about my screen!)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:34 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

I was just thinking that this and the two Star Wars show episodes that dropped yesterday sure were dark with extra dark. I know all about "grimdark future" but that doesn't necessarily mean that they forgot how to make a freakin' light, sheesh.

This made for a pretty good midseason finale episode, I thought. Shaw showed some signs of self-awareness and his Wolf 359 story was different from Sisko's but still pretty awful. I'm not real keen on Jack being somehow tampered with physically--it reminds me too much of previous Picard fakesons--but I thought that Riker got some good development. I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of a spinoff, but I do like this crew.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:48 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

That was the most Trek episode yet.

I also wasn't too excited about whatever it was that Jack experienced at the end of the episode. Real? Or Mental illness like his paternal grandma?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 9:52 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

Maybe space ghosts.
posted by RakDaddy at 1:35 PM on March 9, 2023

What is it with Trek people and "hiding" things inside lighted emplacements?

There were a number of fan theories last week tying the nebula creatures to "Encounter at Farpoint"; I'm not sure I expected Matalas to lampshade that connection quite so hard.
posted by hanov3r at 1:54 PM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

This nonsense that you can pick a Changeling if you ask it something only the person would know doesn't square with Bashir being a Changeling on DS9 for five episodes. (The Changeling knows enough to be a doctor and all the Starfleet protocols, but can't remember if Bashir ever had his appendix removed?)
posted by crossoverman at 2:09 PM on March 9, 2023

The Bashir changeling would have had access to his medical record, so that's something that he actually would know. And Bashir was a good choice for infiltration, because, as we now know, he had a secret that he'd even kept from Starfleet, so it's quite likely that people generally knew a lot less about him than they might have known about other people. (I'm guessing that changeling-Bashir probably steered clear of Garak while he was on the station, though.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:13 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

It sure was neat of them to put just a regular ol’ actual Star Trek episode in here! I really enjoyed it overall.

Vadic remains an extremely great villain and I want to see more of her. Maybe a spin-off series. Whenever Vadic isn’t on the screen, all the other characters should be asking: where’s Vadic

I love how weird and gross the changelings look now! I’m reminded of how Strange New Worlds kind of took the DS9-era CGI on the solar sail and did a modern thing that looked heavily inspired by that early CGI look, But In A Good Way. I’m always here for more DS9 acknowledgement.

And Shaw is so good you guys

I feel like we’re cruising rapidly down the road to Mutual Begrudging Respect and you could fill a changeling bucket with that and I’d gladly grab a spoon and just EAT THAT UP
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:33 PM on March 9, 2023 [7 favorites]

It’s also fascinating to see how the writers/showrunner for this season seem to kind of implicitly recognize that the first two seasons were kind of a mistake, with the way that they’re doing this season as a standalone thing. The few remaining characters from the first two seasons get enough reminder exposition early on that you can figure out what’s going on, and otherwise the first two seasons can safely be ignored (“Just like TNG”)
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:09 PM on March 9, 2023

The Bashir changeling would have had access to his medical record, so that's something that he actually would know.

That was just a cliche example. I just find it really reductive that one of the big threats of DS9 ("we are everywhere"), where there really was no easy way to figure out who and who wasn't a Changeling, is now theoretically resolved with a question.
posted by crossoverman at 3:30 PM on March 9, 2023

I just find it really reductive that one of the big threats of DS9 ("we are everywhere"), where there really was no easy way to figure out who and who wasn't a Changeling, is now theoretically resolved with a question.

Or finding a bucket.
posted by nubs at 3:37 PM on March 9, 2023 [8 favorites]

I mean, it was explicitly stated that these changelings aren’t from the Great Link. I can buy that terrorist changelings wouldn’t have the resources to set up careful infiltration. If you have to keep hopping around, there’s only so much you can know about a person.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:06 PM on March 9, 2023

I was under the impression that Odo only needed the bucket because he tried to stay Odo shaped the whole time.
After he met more changelings and got some practice he realised he didn't need bucket time, he only needed to try on different shapes?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:08 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

Shaw has been through some things, he has value, and genuine contradictions with regard to the ex-Borg around him. You gotta wonder what Lore was cooking up at Daystrum, or what he accidentally came across, or stole. His refusal to use the name Seven, was, in his way, a way to humanize Annekin Hansen, or make himself more comfortable.
posted by Oyéah at 5:34 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

They couldn't bring in Sisko for this, so Shaw is a survivor of Wolf 359 who can throw that resentment at Picard

Why would people still be so angry at Picard? Doesn't everyone know that he was a victim of the Borg as well? Abducted, assimilated, mind-controlled? I could imagine some people might still blame him, but two Starfleet officers? It doesn't feel very Star-Trek-y.

I thought it was weird in the DS9 premiere episode, but at least that was just a few years after. Shaw's still seething about this? Doesn't he have more important recent things to be a dick about?
posted by PlusDistance at 5:56 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

I'd watch a spinoff with Shaw. I really liked Todd Stashwick in '12 Monkeys' (2015-18) as Deacon.

🎶 "Don't you, forget about me..."

This season of Pic has arguably been "not good" but I'm really loving this. Patrick Stewart is carrying all this on his back, with some nice assists here and there.

Dang, Jack smiles like a 45 yo. Is he a space-Australian?

I don't know my technobabble but weren't tractor beams limited by relative mass, or did a Wesley invention get incorporated into all tractor beams?
posted by porpoise at 6:03 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

For me, this is the best episode of the enire series, knocking "Nepenthe" out of thqt position. It was the most Star Trek episode they have been able to pull off in the three seasons, and tne most like a TNG episode. It's like they asked their colleagues on SNW "How do we make a Star Trek episode?" and took their advice. Which is not to say that there wasn't some iffy writing - the whole deal with the "emergency therapy holodeck" is kind of bullshit, and the Changeling thing smacks of the "Who won the World Series in 1941?" gambit they used to find German spies in bad WWII movies. But for this series, this episode was a success.
posted by briank at 7:09 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

I get a kick out of Vadic, but the look they've given the character has me seriously expecting her to haul out a Zorg ZF-1 Pod Weapon at some point. The resemblance to Zorg is uncanny.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:31 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

Vadic spins around in her chair just like her father!

I knew Shaw had some unprocessed trauma somewhere in his background, but when he said to Picard in dark tones that they'd met before, I said "Oh no."

My wife: "What?"

Shaw: "USS Constance. Stardate 44002.3."

Me: "Oh no!"

My wife: "What??"

Me: "I'll let Shaw tell it."

Shaw: "Oh, come on. You must've heard about the Battle of Wolf 359. 40 Federation starships up against one Borg cube."

Me: "There it is."
posted by Servo5678 at 8:43 PM on March 9, 2023 [14 favorites]

Well, I'm glad we're not going to spend the entire series stuck in the same goddamn nebula. Only 40% of it.
posted by jordemort at 9:01 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

Social media indications suggest that Paramount is aware that this episode streamed with incorrect brightness…

Speaking of brightness, a very nice touch: when five minutes in there is the sudden rising brightness of a “bio-electrical wave” (sure, whatever), everyone on the bridge raises a hand to shield their eyes from the glare... except Riker (who is the captain and thus very butch) and T’Veen, who is Vulcan and thus has an inner eyelid. This peculiarity of Vulcan physiology was I think referenced only* in the TOS episode “Operation: Annihilate!” from April 1967, just shy of 56 years ago.

Someone in the writers’ room is a deep geek.

*Can’t recall it ever coming up with Tuvok. In the first season of this show, Tamlyn Tomita’s character is a nominal Vulcan but wears sunglasses at one point.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:03 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

Would I understand the deal with Vadic’s hand if I had watched more that the first 3 episodes of DS9?

Is she a changeling and cutting off a small piece of herself? Or is a channeling serving as a prosthetic hand?

And then as the Floating Face… I took that to probably be communication with someone not on the ship.


Or do none of those questions have anything to do with changelings in DS9?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:30 PM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've seen all of DS9 and I have the same questions about the hand and face.
posted by Television Name at 10:50 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

yeah I too am extremely intrigued by Vadic's hand situation and the mysterious face

like she seems to be a changeling based on that, but also, what the heck is going on though
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:19 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

This meat-based communications tech is new to all of us. It looks like there's been some reimagining of the Changelings, and... look, I love DS9, but it had a lot of awful 90s CGI, and an upgrade was inevitable.
posted by confluency at 3:34 AM on March 10, 2023

7 standing there with her mouth agape while the Changeling runs at her and then escapes, slowly, really threw me out of the episode. I was sitting here yelling VAPORIZE THEM!

She's lit'rally holding a phaser and doesn't think to dial up the power and kill the thing.

UGH. DUMB.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:08 AM on March 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

I have to say that given how very out-of-character the Riker-Picard dispute at the end of last episode seemed, when Riker came to see Picard early in this one I really thought his opening line would be something like, “Do you think they bought it?”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:35 AM on March 10, 2023 [7 favorites]

yeah I too am extremely intrigued by Vadic's hand situation and the mysterious face

TALK TO THE HAND
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:36 AM on March 10, 2023 [18 favorites]

I forgot to say that hearing Seven talk about Changelings and Dr. Crusher took me out of the show for a moment. She's not supposed to know about those things, being on Voyager and all. It's like when you're a kid and you see your teacher at the mall. It's so out of context.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:42 AM on March 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

His refusal to use the name Seven, was, in his way, a way to humanize Annekin Hansen, or make himself more comfortable.

Yes, I really liked the way that was contextualized by his Wolf 359 experience. Hard enough to serve with an ex-Borg after that, harder still to call her by a Borg designation. He's still an ass, but maybe his assishness is trauma-induced.

Overall, I thought this episode was a huge improvement over the previous three, and I was only really annoyed by the really weird logical leap that the nebula was about to give birth. Surely there's more than one thing in the universe that would account for pulses of gradually increasing frequency, and it was just plain weird to assume it was equivalent to human birth contractions. Really, it didn't matter what the cause of the pulses was, as long as they could math it out and predict the next one. That was a clunky bit of writing. I think it would have been better to be completely surprised by the space squid babies. A little unexpected joy at the end of a tense episode.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:51 AM on March 10, 2023 [7 favorites]

I enjoyed this episode! Nice to see it getting somewhere. The structure and pacing felt very odd to me, not at all like a Star Trek episode. But in a good way. Also sort of par for the course for Picard, it's had a different way of being a show than others.

Glad Jean-Luc got some time for character development. This is his show, afterall. The parallels between the flashback and the current scene were remarkably effective.

I guess that awfully acted Riker / Picard argument last episode was just what it looked like, not some clever ruse to flush out the Changeling? Also now the Changeling is dead and they're out of the nebula so The End to all that? Very confused about the hand thing with Vadic. I think we're supposed to conclude it's Changeling stuff but as folks said above, it's nothing at all like how DS9 established Changeling society works.

Captain Asshole is by far the most interesting thing on the show. What a weird character! And lustily acted by Todd Stashwick.
posted by Nelson at 7:07 AM on March 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

Lack of Groppler Zorn notwithstanding, I'd take "Tin Man" over "Encounter at Farpoint" for spaceborne life references any day.
posted by lumensimus at 7:10 AM on March 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Am i the only one who heard Vadic sing-songing "Goodbye, goodbye... goodbye" right after she ordered the portal device disengaged as a callback to the actresses's father's role in "The Sound of Music"?
posted by hanov3r at 7:23 AM on March 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Lack of Groppler Zorn notwithstanding, I'd take "Tin Man" over "Encounter at Farpoint" for spaceborne life references any day.

Ah, Groppler Zorn.

“I gropple well. I gropple very well.”

But yeah, Tin Man came immediately to mind as well, but I suppose they had name-checked Farpoint already.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:17 AM on March 10, 2023 [4 favorites]

Shaw monologuing at Picard about Wolf 359 reminded me of O'Brien in the TNG episode "The Wounded" a little -- or Riker's monologue in "The Pegasus". Trauma bubbling up from terrible incidents early in their Starfleet careers.

Changeling: "Noooo they be stealin' my bucket"

Jack just after the mirror scene: "Crap, I fell asleep watching Twin Peaks."

Shaw responded to the cannabis question by saying sadly, no implying that he is not a stranger to it. Is this the first time in Trek canon we've seen an officer mention pot at all, or treat mention of cannabis as lightly as we might a mention of alcohol?

Also I will never get used to the fact that people in Star Trek use the f-word now.
posted by brainwane at 8:18 AM on March 10, 2023 [12 favorites]

I forgot to say that hearing Seven talk about Changelings and Dr. Crusher took me out of the show for a moment. She's not supposed to know about those things, being on Voyager and all.

Voyager got back like twenty years ago, and Seven is a Starfleet commander. She may have been briefed.

In 2015-16, Scott Kelly and Mikhail Kornienko spent eleven months on the ISS. I am sure they have been told that, I dunno, the conservatives came to power in the UK and that Lemmy died while they were gone.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:29 AM on March 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

Also I will never get used to the fact that people in Star Trek use the f-word now.

37 years ago, Kirk responded to an insult in the 20th century with “double dumbass on you!”

29 years ago an emotion-chip-enabled Data exclaimed “Shit!” when the Enterprise-D’s saucer section was plummeting to Veridian III.

Now Picard throws in a “fucking” in a recounting of navigating a wounded shuttle home.

By 2045, Star Trek will be basically Deadwood with transporters.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:35 AM on March 10, 2023 [8 favorites]

Also I will never get used to the fact that people in Star Trek use the f-word now.

When I logged into Paramount+, I noticed this episode was TV-MA, where previous ones were TV-14, so I figured an f-bomb was imminent.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:41 AM on March 10, 2023

By 2045, Star Trek will be basically Deadwood with transporters.

“Fuckin’ hoopleheads” will be a catch-all reference for the aliens of the week and their forehead makeup.



Den of Geek: Liam Shaw is the Captain Star Trek Needs Right Now
posted by nubs at 9:21 AM on March 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

She may have been briefed.

I meant Voyager the show, not the ship. My bad for not italicizing it.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:49 AM on March 10, 2023

She may have been briefed.

I meant Voyager the show, not the ship. My bad for not italicizing it.

I'm even more confused by what you're trying to say. The Dominion War was a serious thing, and there would have been knock-on effects for years. Seven knowing about changelings seems reasonable, especially considering she's in Starfleet now.

I mean, a changeling knocked out the entire power grid on Earth. The Dominion occupied Betazed.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:46 AM on March 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Not a lot to add, but hearing Picard drop an F'bomb was a bit of an eye opener. Young Picard definitely cussed, but older Picard always seemed a bit too refined, polite. I suppose he was trying to connect with his younger son. Thinking of the other main ST:NG characters, I could see Crusher just dropping exasperated F-bombs all the time. Riker? Definitely sarcastic f-bombs. Troi? They would be like Crusher's, but combination of exasperated and incredulous. La Forge? Totally as an adjective describing something he was in love or excited about. Worf? In a gruff, very personal, I'm not in the mood for this type of f-bomb and slightly sarcastic. Data? No matter what context he would use, it would come with a conditionary, "Was that the correct use of Fuck?"

Space babies. Okay. It's trek, whatever.

The hand thing. I wonder if the hand serves as some kind of weird DNA authentication for the communication device.

Concerning Seven's engagement with the Changeling, I just wanted to scream, "Set that phaser to a wide angle dispersal and sweep the room!"

I wasn't bothered by the "gotcha" question for the Changeling, as I'm not sure if the Changelings were ever supposed to be perfect mimics of someone's memories. They were good at imitation, not perfect at it. If you don't "know" you're trying to uncover a Changeling, then you wouldn't bother thinking a gotcha question to begin with.

Regarding Seven's knowledge, she totally would have devoured that to be as efficient as possible as a Star Fleet officer.
posted by Atreides at 10:51 AM on March 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

I assumed the thing about Seven was more about crossing the streams between the shows Voyager and DS9. As in, it’s weird to have a VOY character interacting with a DS9 antagonist
posted by sixswitch at 11:48 AM on March 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Amazing how in the 25th century people still have to shout “fire aft thrusters 31 degrees!” because apparently self-driving ships still don’t exist by then.
posted by adrianhon at 3:10 PM on March 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

Also I love how this had a literal “and then everyone clapped” moment
posted by adrianhon at 3:16 PM on March 10, 2023

As in, it’s weird to have a VOY character interacting with a DS9 antagonist

The mix-and-match is one of the strengths of the Picard clearing house, in my view. I noticed that before poor Sneed lost his head an episode or two back, his criminal record noted Brunt as a known associate. Brunt was last spotted on screen in May of 1999, so far as I can recall. Few shows are willing to do callbacks from something a quarter-century ago.

This season is feeling a bit like the final year of Enterprise, when it stopped being Generic Spaceship Show on Cable #28 and started being Star Trek again. Some of it is explicit, some of it is more allusive, like having a villain played by a Plummer gleefully spinning in their chair at our heroes being in peril.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:23 PM on March 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm just loving Todd Stashwick's performance so much. I really enjoyed listening to him talk with Wil Wheaton on the Ready Room this week, geek to geek. For a long time, he's been one of those performers you'd see pop up on whatever show you were into, and he was always so reliably great as a weird sleaze or creepy villain. And then I started watching 12 Monkeys, where he was a truly horrible but highly memorable excuse for a human being, and while I hate villains as a rule, I found myself really loving his character when he slowly morphed from villain to antihero to actualfax hero. Deacon became my favorite character on that series (along with Jennifer, and I adored their bizarre relationship).

(Amusing side note: He's apparently a big improv guy who knew Jason Sudeikis from that world, and he's the one who recommended Hannah Waddingham to Sudeikis when they were putting Ted Lasso together. In the first season, Roy Kent has a monologue about a guy he knew when he started out called Doug Stashwick.)

I'm still bummed that they got rid of Santiago Cabrera last year, but I'm finding Shaw a decent replacement--he's just really interesting to watch, he's snarky (I loved how casually he acknowledged Seven basically calling him a giant bag of dicks) and clever, and Stashwick's just really doing cool things with the dialog they're giving him, putting a really gripping spin on his character. He said Shaw's not done yet, and I really hope that's true.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

Honestly I’m starting to think I’d love a spin-off that’s basically Strange New Worlds: TNG on the Titan, captained by Shaw
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2023 [8 favorites]

i really dont care if i get blasted for saying this, but im sorry if this offends anyone enjoying picard: this show sucks and we deserve better.
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 4:50 AM on March 11, 2023 [6 favorites]

It is underwhelming, yes. But in a world where much of TV is televised karaoke competitions and shows where steely-eyed cops tell their computers “Enhance... enhance...” until they find the murderer, it’s actually okay.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:21 AM on March 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

i really dont care if i get blasted for saying this

I won't blast you for saying that, but will note that it's generally more interesting to share and discuss criticism rather than mere opinion. Sharing whether or not you like something doesn't offer much opportunity for discussion, but sharing why you like or don't like something does offer such opportunity.

So "this show sucks" doesn't tend to get blasted because people disagree, but because it shuts down conversation about a show. And this is literally a site for conversations about shows.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:09 AM on March 11, 2023 [12 favorites]

Seems like the episode missed multiple chances to actually show off young LaForge's skills as a pilot.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 9:27 AM on March 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

i really dont care if i get blasted for saying this, but im sorry if this offends anyone enjoying picard: this show sucks and we deserve better.

Thank you for your detailed and well-reasoned criticism!
posted by rhymedirective at 11:22 AM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

Amazing how in the 25th century people still have to shout “fire aft thrusters 31 degrees!” because apparently self-driving ships still don’t exist by then.

I wish they'd motivated the bit with Jack calling out asteroids a bit better by announcing they had taken the computer offline. Like, they say they don't have sensors, but then he's clearly looking at the asteroids on some kind of readout. Just shut off the computer and that explains it all!

This felt like Trek and I enjoyed it. Not looking forward to rejoining the Raffi storyline, a character I still don't care about at all. I suspect the writers know this and paired her with Worf for that reason, but it hasn't really helped.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:05 PM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I am enjoying this entire series. It is fitting to resolve something as elegant as this crew, and spirit and also find a suitable jumping off point for other series, if there is a spark here. I like this because of the human realizations, the sets, the new faces, and camaraderie. Some of the themes forgiveness, trust, bravery, creativity, and pure evil, they are well done. The characters are nicely developed in a short time, for this short sail into glory.
posted by Oyéah at 3:09 PM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

It occurs to me subsequent to viewing (true Fridge Logic) that there is something perverse about stressing that the Titan is dead in space and drifting powerless towards doom in the same episode where we find out, “by the way, the holodeck has its own dedicated power supply.”

There is no chance Montgomery Scott or Geordi LaForge or Miles O’Brien would have failed to hook up the two systems here.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:11 PM on March 11, 2023 [9 favorites]

Voyager was supposedly rationing energy and replicator rations during the trip home as well, but the holodeck was similarly used for recreational purposes constantly, running hangout spaces like Chez Sandrine from the beginning. So while it's illogical here too, it's not without precedent.

The counter-example is from TNG when Geordi was running that Leah Brahms program to figure out how to escape the booby trap and had to get authorization to keep it going when the power situation became dire. But perhaps it was the whole Moriarty thing that inspired newer holodeck designs to run as isolated systems.

I assumed the thing about Seven was more about crossing the streams between the shows Voyager and DS9. As in, it’s weird to have a VOY character interacting with a DS9 antagonist

To be honest, I had the same initial reaction when Picard was asked about the Hirogen.
posted by Pryde at 6:44 PM on March 11, 2023 [6 favorites]

But in a world where much of TV is televised karaoke competitions and shows where steely-eyed cops tell their computers “Enhance... enhance...” until they find the murderer, it’s actually okay.

This is the lowest of all possible bars. But actually, most episodes of CSI or L&O are better crafted structurally than Picard.
posted by crossoverman at 8:53 PM on March 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

By Grabthar's Hammer, I've seen that asteroid trick done somewhere before...
posted by surlyben at 11:34 PM on March 11, 2023 [9 favorites]

By Grabthar's Hammer, I've seen that asteroid trick done somewhere before...

This show is going to reference every Star Trek ever made, including the meta-Star Trek movie made under a different name
posted by nubs at 9:22 AM on March 12, 2023 [9 favorites]

Well ... I guess now we know what happens when the good direction of episode 3 meets the terrible writing of episodes 1 and 2. A reasonably watchable episode which still has a ton of cringy dialogue and long unearned speeches.

Also, the "holodeck is always on" thing was dumb in Voyager and it's dumb now.
posted by kyrademon at 3:22 PM on March 12, 2023 [3 favorites]

Changeling: "Noooo they be stealin' my bucket"

Why does he use the exact same bucket as Odo?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:03 PM on March 12, 2023 [3 favorites]

Also, the "holodeck is always on" thing was dumb in Voyager and it's dumb now.

If the holodeck has an independent power supply, maybe use to it run the fucking engines?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:04 PM on March 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

Why does he use the exact same bucket as Odo?

Having dwelt in the Great Link for an indeterminate length of time after the DS9 finale, Odo has had ample opportunity to directly and indirectly influence the knowledge and personalities of countless Changelings, and I would argue that he understood the contours of his faithful bucket better than any other solid shape. Whether or not he'd have any interest in rekindling the Dominion War (my latinum's on "no"), the bucket-form has surely had independent existence in the Changeling collective consciousness for decades by this point.

That said, I think the guerilla Changelings are much more likely drawn from the ranks of the Hundred, the infant Changelings sent from the Great Link to explore the galaxy, of which Odo is one of two we've seen on screen.

In the Season 7 DS9 episode "Chimera", the Changeling Laas (portrayed by a barely-recognizable J.G Hertzler, better known as General / Chancellor Martok) demonstrated a deep-seated anti-solid, anti-humanoid bias that could easily have grown into militancy, and he seemed much more intent on gathering more of the Hundred than returning to the Great Link — understandable, given that it was afflicted by plague at the time.

It's entirely possible he never returned, instead forming an independent Link in the Alpha Quadrant unmarred by the shame of the Founders' surrender.

I would be deeply impressed if they went down this road, and it would be a blast to see a Hertzler back in front of the camera as Laas, but I think the bucket was probably just used as quick, if blunt, visual shorthand for the daily need to regenerate — a peculiarity of Changelingkind that was never really generalized beyond Odo.
posted by lumensimus at 2:44 AM on March 13, 2023 [7 favorites]

Hertzler would be so down for that—he's voiced at least one Lower Decks character—and his performance as now-fully-evil Laas would be frickin' terrifying.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:06 AM on March 13, 2023 [4 favorites]

Hertzler would be so down for that

I hope that if this happens, they credit him as Garman Hertzler which is the name he used for his credit as Laas on DS9.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:50 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]

If the holodeck has an independent power supply, maybe use to it run the fucking engines?

Entirely different power scales, mostly? That said, as I understand it, starships have nuclear reactors dotted around them the same way we have outlets in our houses - rather than tapping power off of the warp core for everything they just uh use plasma (... from the warp core?) to keep nuclear reactions going to make local power? But yeah, hoik some leg-sized cables around the ship to power pockets of life support off of the independent holodeck supply, maybe?

I did think it was interesting that they had something like safety decks now, like places of last resort. That said I was thinking, ok, have the crew crawl into the escape pods and close the doors behind them, they're supposed to be capable of independently operating for a while? But, uh, apparently not in this episode? No mention of abandoning ship _at all_. Maybe they just figure the safety deck is a better idea than sending everybody off in a tiny defenseless pod to be shot by the local baddies?
posted by Kyol at 7:46 AM on March 13, 2023

But perhaps it was the whole Moriarty thing that inspired newer holodeck designs to run as isolated systems.

This is a decent point. I am pretty sure that if anything calls for a wholesale rethinking of holodeck systems design to air gap it, it is Moriarty. (Note: I am 85% sure this sentence has never been spoken before.)
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:19 AM on March 13, 2023 [9 favorites]

Didn't they mention the power supply for the Holodeck was pretty insignificant compared to the needs of the ship? I.e., no point in hooking it in?
posted by Atreides at 9:21 AM on March 13, 2023

Not really, no. Picard Sr. describes it as a “small, independent power cell,” but it does have to run a room-sized replicator and intricate series of tractor and pressor beams (note: I am going off vague thirty-year-old recollections of the TNG technical manual here) to give tactile presence to the things users interact with, as well as creating the food and drink they consume.

Hard to square this readily with a few minutes earlier hearing, “All systems are reaching critical minimums,” and, “If we don’t divert some power, we will start losing life support.” Riker explicitly has everything non-essential shut down and orders the crew to gather in common areas.

Meanwhile if someone wants to go reenact 19th century literature or go skiing on Altair 9, we have power for that, of course.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:58 AM on March 13, 2023 [6 favorites]

The holodeck is a cultural blindspot, like all those early European colonists starving to death next to bays full of lobsters. I'm waiting for the episode where some ship survives by rerouting holodeck power to life support, and then gets kicked out of starfleet and shunned for committing such an abominable transgression.
posted by surlyben at 11:15 AM on March 13, 2023 [10 favorites]

I did think it was interesting that they had something like safety decks now, like places of last resort. That said I was thinking, ok, have the crew crawl into the escape pods and close the doors behind them, they're supposed to be capable of independently operating for a while? But, uh, apparently not in this episode? No mention of abandoning ship _at all_. Maybe they just figure the safety deck is a better idea than sending everybody off in a tiny defenseless pod to be shot by the local baddies?

Shaw, in his monologue about Wolf 359 mentions going to the safety deck and waiting there until the officer came and counted off six of them into a lifepod. It makes me think there are designated safety decks, which are safe places to be until it is clear it is necessary to board the lifepods that, presumably, are attached to that deck.

As for abandoning the Titan, given that the Titan was being sucked down the gravity well, not sure that the lifepods would've done well.
posted by nubs at 11:26 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]

was being sucked down the gravity well

Falling into the gravity well, not being sucked in. The Trek science advisor is a little picky about the terminology
posted by hanov3r at 1:49 PM on March 13, 2023 [2 favorites]

And more generally, the range, capacity, and duration of escape pods is 1000% plot dependent. Do they just need to get you out of the ship before it blows up, but you're still in the same local bit of space? Sure. Are they lightly warp capable? They are if we need 'em to be. Are they only good for a couple of hours before you die in a personal space coffin, or will they keep you going for a week or so? What does the plot demand, we'll make it happen.

And that's before you start seeing how many people you could cram in to shuttlecraft, of which starships have anywhere between one and an infinite number of, again depending on the plot requirements. Still, for the show to not have mentioned _any_ alternatives to just hanging out waiting to die is a bit sloppy, even for PIC.
posted by Kyol at 9:20 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]

I like how all of Picard's potential sons are worried about when they will lose their hair. Surely in the future they can either do amazing transplants or just have treatments so that people can actually grow hair again if they want to. Is everyone supposed to be beyond that kind of vanity or does this cut too close to the prohibitions on genetic engineering?

Also the timing of the Nebula giving birth seems a bit too convenient. I hope that it comes back that there was a reason for it and it actually ties in to something later on.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:04 PM on April 25, 2023

This is the first episode I enjoyed all the way through. The first few had cool moments, but you could hear the gears grinding to get the characters where they needed to be for those cool things to happen.

This wasn’t perfect—Dr. Crusher would never have waited so long to communicate her belief about labor contractions, for example, and the holodeck power supply lampshade beggared belief—but by god it had some great character moments that were actually earned and some good ol’ fashioned competence porn. I actually might binge the rest through over the next couple of weeks!
posted by thecaddy at 1:55 PM on April 27, 2023

By 2045, Star Trek will be basically Deadwood with transporters.

DINNA THREATEN ME WIV A GEUD TIME, LADDIE
posted by lalochezia at 9:33 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

less pew pew deus ex machina, moar logotherapeutic monologues and existential tension/bonhomie

100% pure TNG juice. inject it into my VEINS. this is why we are here!



how dumb are the fucking big-eyed space squid babies tho'
posted by lalochezia at 9:36 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]