Star Trek: Picard: The Bounty
March 23, 2023 4:26 AM - Season 3, Episode 6 - Subscribe
Fleeing a galactic manhunt, our outcast heroes infiltrate the Fleet Museum and Daystrom Station, where they make a shocking discovery about which of the relics was stolen by the enemy.
Memory Alpha does not practice deceit:
• This episode marks the first time since Star Trek Nemesis that the main cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation, save for Denise Crosby and Wil Wheaton, have appeared together.
• Mica Burton (Alandra La Forge) is the real-life daughter of LeVar Burton.
• The U.S.S. Sternbach is presumably named for Rick Sternbach, senior production designer for the Star Trek franchise for decades. The U.S.S. Trumbull is presumably named after Douglas Trumbull, visual effects pioneer known for his work on 2001: A Space Odyssey. Trumbull was the director of Special Photographic Effects (as VFX were still called at the time) and an acting second-unit director on Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
"'Sour mead'?"
"Chateau Picard."
"It is quite tart, sir."
- Jean-Luc, Riker, Worf
"Leave it to you, Jean-Luc, to turn fatherhood into an intergalactic incident."
- Geordi
"Oh, you are definitely your father's son. He, too, has a knack for the drive-by poetic observation."
- Seven, to Jack
Poster's Log:
So the Fleet Museum was…great. During Jack and Seven's little review scene, I got misty, NGL. Seven's few lines of dialogue there might've been more emotionally impactful than the entire VOY series finale. And speaking of redeeming the mistakes of the past: I never liked B-4, but color me interested in where they're going with…Super-Data? Quasi-Bio-Data? Omni-Data?
Vadic's line about silence, unity, and peace made me think of the Great Link, and the fact that JL namedrops it again here may suggest something about the enemies' goal. If Rene Auberjonois were still alive, I'd be convinced by now that Odo was gonna show up in the finale.
Seems to me that the major dropped ball here is failing to check if it's the real Geordi. It should be easy to ask him one of those questions-only-the-real-you-can-answer—you have his daughter right there!
Kind of disappointed in, but not too shocked about, what appears to be the extent of Moriarty's participation in this season. Neat sequence, but I guess his appearance in the trailer made me hopeful for a slightly nuttier story arc. Of course, I can't blame them for wanting to ease off on the nutty pedal, after last season.
Jack is talking about himself so often that (A) I persist in my theory that they're setting him up for a "Jack and Friends Hour" spinoff and (B) I grow less and less interested in said spinoff.
Anybody else notice some very Tron: Legacy music in here? I guess it suits the political-thriller feel of the story.
Memory Alpha does not practice deceit:
• This episode marks the first time since Star Trek Nemesis that the main cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation, save for Denise Crosby and Wil Wheaton, have appeared together.
• Mica Burton (Alandra La Forge) is the real-life daughter of LeVar Burton.
• The U.S.S. Sternbach is presumably named for Rick Sternbach, senior production designer for the Star Trek franchise for decades. The U.S.S. Trumbull is presumably named after Douglas Trumbull, visual effects pioneer known for his work on 2001: A Space Odyssey. Trumbull was the director of Special Photographic Effects (as VFX were still called at the time) and an acting second-unit director on Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
"'Sour mead'?"
"Chateau Picard."
"It is quite tart, sir."
- Jean-Luc, Riker, Worf
"Leave it to you, Jean-Luc, to turn fatherhood into an intergalactic incident."
- Geordi
"Oh, you are definitely your father's son. He, too, has a knack for the drive-by poetic observation."
- Seven, to Jack
Poster's Log:
So the Fleet Museum was…great. During Jack and Seven's little review scene, I got misty, NGL. Seven's few lines of dialogue there might've been more emotionally impactful than the entire VOY series finale. And speaking of redeeming the mistakes of the past: I never liked B-4, but color me interested in where they're going with…Super-Data? Quasi-Bio-Data? Omni-Data?
Vadic's line about silence, unity, and peace made me think of the Great Link, and the fact that JL namedrops it again here may suggest something about the enemies' goal. If Rene Auberjonois were still alive, I'd be convinced by now that Odo was gonna show up in the finale.
Seems to me that the major dropped ball here is failing to check if it's the real Geordi. It should be easy to ask him one of those questions-only-the-real-you-can-answer—you have his daughter right there!
Kind of disappointed in, but not too shocked about, what appears to be the extent of Moriarty's participation in this season. Neat sequence, but I guess his appearance in the trailer made me hopeful for a slightly nuttier story arc. Of course, I can't blame them for wanting to ease off on the nutty pedal, after last season.
Jack is talking about himself so often that (A) I persist in my theory that they're setting him up for a "Jack and Friends Hour" spinoff and (B) I grow less and less interested in said spinoff.
Anybody else notice some very Tron: Legacy music in here? I guess it suits the political-thriller feel of the story.
Yeah I had mixed feelings about the museum myself (other than 🎉DS9 ACKNOWLEDGED🍾) given the way that it felt, as you put it, very self-indulgent indeed. The intro song melodies in the background music were a heck of a thing. I kind of liked it, but in that “in an hour I am going to regret eating all this cake” sort of way.
So pleased that Vadic is back! She’s just a delight of a villain. The changeling thing seemed unsurprising but I’m still curious about the weird face, and why she had to cut off part of her body for it.
Slightly pleased that Moriarty wound up only being a brief diversion instead of the big bad! The trailer was a spoiler but not actually that much.
Interesting to note that Brent Spiner is, I think, the only original series cast member to guest-star in all three seasons of this show. Looks like he’s going to be having fun with these last few episodes.
Feeling less and less like we’ll be seeing Bashir and Garak, unless perhaps there’s some sort of Section 31 bit they can be shoehorned into. We’ve only got three episodes left, but, well, on the other hand, Section 31 did create the changeling virus. That seems unlikely to play in though.
It does feel kind of like we’re moving toward some sort of Locutus of Founder kind of situation though, even if my first reaction to seeing the humanoid shape beamed out of Datalore’s eyes was: “Odo? But René is dead though”
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:33 AM on March 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
So pleased that Vadic is back! She’s just a delight of a villain. The changeling thing seemed unsurprising but I’m still curious about the weird face, and why she had to cut off part of her body for it.
Slightly pleased that Moriarty wound up only being a brief diversion instead of the big bad! The trailer was a spoiler but not actually that much.
Interesting to note that Brent Spiner is, I think, the only original series cast member to guest-star in all three seasons of this show. Looks like he’s going to be having fun with these last few episodes.
Feeling less and less like we’ll be seeing Bashir and Garak, unless perhaps there’s some sort of Section 31 bit they can be shoehorned into. We’ve only got three episodes left, but, well, on the other hand, Section 31 did create the changeling virus. That seems unlikely to play in though.
It does feel kind of like we’re moving toward some sort of Locutus of Founder kind of situation though, even if my first reaction to seeing the humanoid shape beamed out of Datalore’s eyes was: “Odo? But René is dead though”
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:33 AM on March 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I still want Strange New Worlds: TNG starring Shaw though
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:34 AM on March 23, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:34 AM on March 23, 2023 [11 favorites]
Vadic wants her minions to track down “every known associate of Jean-Luc Picard.” I envision the minions turning up to harass Nella Daren and Philippa Louvois and Boothby.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:53 AM on March 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:53 AM on March 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
Was the episode very fanservicey? Yes. Did I enjoy it? Absolutely. It did resolve certain issues of how will the Titan maneuver without the greater Starfleet fleet constantly pursuing it (cloaking device), as well as finding the key to what the baddies wanted and are going to use to help bring down Starfleet/Federation (DataX). It was also wonderful to see the storylines come together, granted, it also felt as if they were likely diverging again with Riker and Troi (maybe?) as captives and Worf (maybe?) going off to rescue them. Of note, Worf has commanded the Defiant in the past, and, incidentally, in a current comic book storyline is commanding it after stealing it from Starfleet. Ahem. It also has, or at least, had a cloaking device, too. I'm guessing she's still a fierce little fighting ship.
All kudos to Brent Spiner. The second he did that smirk, we knew exactly which personality was temporarily in charge of Data's body. I'm excited to see how he jumps between the personalities and presumably, it will be resolved. This is the "real boy" moment for Data. Though, technically, they could have analyzed Data's memory without waking him, I think?
Keeping with it being a storage space for Section 31's toys, the institute still felt a bit dark for Starfleet. Yuck. As is, no one but the admiralty are supposed to know about Section 31, as is. Unless, of course, they piss off a captain of a deep space command. :x I had a soft giggle about the callback to the DS9 50th anniversary episode "Troubles and Tribblelations" (sp?) and Worf. Granted, I did not expect the gross under tribble shot. I don't think people would have been treating them like loveable puppies if that was the original design intent. 0_0
Family is definitely a theme of this season. The TNG Enterprise crew as a family. Then each crewmember's family (Picard/Crusher/Jack), (Riker, Troi, their daughter), (La Forge Family) and even Seven commenting on how the Voyager crew were her family. To a greater extent, we can even touch upon the Changelings and possibly the familial aspect or division within it that is driving the storyline.
Vadic blasting the two red shirts after beating Riker seemed weird. Not that she did so, but because these two presumably Starfleet officers were happy to stand there and watch a little torture go down on their watch before being surprised vaporized. Section 31 officers? I dunno, felt off and made me think they were Changelings, too, until they weren't, well, solid mass anymore. I am happy to see her because she's a great villain, a bit over the top, friendly with a split second ability to turn to terrifying/cruel, which is what many great Star Trek villains are.
For her hand cutting off and communication, I was thinking how perhaps it's some kind of play on the changelings' ability to communicate by combining themselves. Perhaps the communication device creates some kind of artificial connection between Changelings? Or, it's just a fancy spancy authentication factor. I was curious about the dynamics of her crew, with her leadership being called into question by one of them before, well, more vaporization. Are they Changelings too? Or are they some new form or variant on Jem'Hadar?
Bonus points for Stanwick's fanboying over La Forge.
One is left with the idea that La Forge, like Picard, found himself on the outside of the command structure based on his disagreement with the linking of the ships (THIS IS A HINT HERE - reminds me of major element of Star Trek Prodigy, in which a virus spreads from ship to ship, placing them under the command of a malevolent AI), and he ended up being sent off to the booneys in charge of the Starfleet museum.
I loved the museum, but I'm so perplexed by the USS New Jersey. I can't place it beyond Memory Alpha just stating it was referenced in the past - but that reference seemed to indicate any Constitution Class ship and the original Enterprise (of that class) was also parked there.
My assumption from the title of the episode was that "Bounty" was referring to the Titan, as in, her crew (our heroes) were mutinying from Starfleet. I hooted when I saw that Bird of Prey, complete with the new (old) paint job she received at the start of Voyage Home.
posted by Atreides at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
All kudos to Brent Spiner. The second he did that smirk, we knew exactly which personality was temporarily in charge of Data's body. I'm excited to see how he jumps between the personalities and presumably, it will be resolved. This is the "real boy" moment for Data. Though, technically, they could have analyzed Data's memory without waking him, I think?
Keeping with it being a storage space for Section 31's toys, the institute still felt a bit dark for Starfleet. Yuck. As is, no one but the admiralty are supposed to know about Section 31, as is. Unless, of course, they piss off a captain of a deep space command. :x I had a soft giggle about the callback to the DS9 50th anniversary episode "Troubles and Tribblelations" (sp?) and Worf. Granted, I did not expect the gross under tribble shot. I don't think people would have been treating them like loveable puppies if that was the original design intent. 0_0
Family is definitely a theme of this season. The TNG Enterprise crew as a family. Then each crewmember's family (Picard/Crusher/Jack), (Riker, Troi, their daughter), (La Forge Family) and even Seven commenting on how the Voyager crew were her family. To a greater extent, we can even touch upon the Changelings and possibly the familial aspect or division within it that is driving the storyline.
Vadic blasting the two red shirts after beating Riker seemed weird. Not that she did so, but because these two presumably Starfleet officers were happy to stand there and watch a little torture go down on their watch before being surprised vaporized. Section 31 officers? I dunno, felt off and made me think they were Changelings, too, until they weren't, well, solid mass anymore. I am happy to see her because she's a great villain, a bit over the top, friendly with a split second ability to turn to terrifying/cruel, which is what many great Star Trek villains are.
For her hand cutting off and communication, I was thinking how perhaps it's some kind of play on the changelings' ability to communicate by combining themselves. Perhaps the communication device creates some kind of artificial connection between Changelings? Or, it's just a fancy spancy authentication factor. I was curious about the dynamics of her crew, with her leadership being called into question by one of them before, well, more vaporization. Are they Changelings too? Or are they some new form or variant on Jem'Hadar?
Bonus points for Stanwick's fanboying over La Forge.
One is left with the idea that La Forge, like Picard, found himself on the outside of the command structure based on his disagreement with the linking of the ships (THIS IS A HINT HERE - reminds me of major element of Star Trek Prodigy, in which a virus spreads from ship to ship, placing them under the command of a malevolent AI), and he ended up being sent off to the booneys in charge of the Starfleet museum.
I loved the museum, but I'm so perplexed by the USS New Jersey. I can't place it beyond Memory Alpha just stating it was referenced in the past - but that reference seemed to indicate any Constitution Class ship and the original Enterprise (of that class) was also parked there.
My assumption from the title of the episode was that "Bounty" was referring to the Titan, as in, her crew (our heroes) were mutinying from Starfleet. I hooted when I saw that Bird of Prey, complete with the new (old) paint job she received at the start of Voyage Home.
posted by Atreides at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nah, when they say Bounty, they mean Bounty.
This went a touch beyond being delightfully fanservicey to being weird. Keep in Picard’s corpse in cold storage? Weirdly off kilter, even for Dark!Starfleet. Although not referenced in the dialogue, just in the signage, it seems they have James T Kirk’s remains there, as well as a surplus Genesis Device.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:01 AM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
This went a touch beyond being delightfully fanservicey to being weird. Keep in Picard’s corpse in cold storage? Weirdly off kilter, even for Dark!Starfleet. Although not referenced in the dialogue, just in the signage, it seems they have James T Kirk’s remains there, as well as a surplus Genesis Device.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:01 AM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
even if my first reaction to seeing the humanoid shape beamed out of Datalore’s eyes
Given (a) how many references were crammed in here, (b) the level of video editing on home computers, and (c) Data’s heretofore unrevealed ability to project images, I suspect within 36 hours we will see on YouTube the concerned group gather round Data projecting the hologram of Leia pleading, “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You’re my only hope.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Given (a) how many references were crammed in here, (b) the level of video editing on home computers, and (c) Data’s heretofore unrevealed ability to project images, I suspect within 36 hours we will see on YouTube the concerned group gather round Data projecting the hologram of Leia pleading, “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You’re my only hope.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
+1 for Shaw getting all starry-eyed and mush-mouthed over LaForge.
Any significance to that brief image (RB mentioned above) of the scan of James T. Kirk? I haven't watched the reboot movies and have the barest memory of the last Star Trek movie with Shatner.
posted by martin q blank at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Any significance to that brief image (RB mentioned above) of the scan of James T. Kirk? I haven't watched the reboot movies and have the barest memory of the last Star Trek movie with Shatner.
posted by martin q blank at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
This Den of Geeks article covers the easter eggs...and well, yes, just Kirk's body as Ricochet Biscuit shared. No context!
It does cite when Kirk died, which was in Star Trek: Generations, the passing of the torch film that shifted the cinematic torch from the original Enterprise crew to the TNG crew. In that film, Kirk vanishes while saving the Enterprise B (captained by Alan Ruck!) from a mysterious space phenomena. It turns out that it's sort of a inter-dimensional portal/plane of existence where you can live out your fantasies. Picard eventually ends up there trying to stop the villain who is blowing up stars to force the phenomena to hit another planet where he can hop into the nexus (as it's called). In there, he meets Shatner in the middle of enjoying his happy fantasy and convinces him to help him stop the bad guy. In the course of doing so, Shatner get killed (kind of lamely) though poignantly because he was alone at the time (Shatner notably states in earlier films, he always knows he's safe from death because he's never alone - i.e., his crew will save him). Picard buries Shatner on that random planet and that's it.
So...apparently for some reason Section 31 dug up Kirk's body. Perhaps Picard's body is just part of the Enterprise captain collection. Granted, with the way this season has been going, now I'm expecting a de-aged Kirk voiced by Shatner to appear at some point.
And I realized I was wrong, it was a genetically modified "attack tribble." If that isn't horrifying.
posted by Atreides at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
It does cite when Kirk died, which was in Star Trek: Generations, the passing of the torch film that shifted the cinematic torch from the original Enterprise crew to the TNG crew. In that film, Kirk vanishes while saving the Enterprise B (captained by Alan Ruck!) from a mysterious space phenomena. It turns out that it's sort of a inter-dimensional portal/plane of existence where you can live out your fantasies. Picard eventually ends up there trying to stop the villain who is blowing up stars to force the phenomena to hit another planet where he can hop into the nexus (as it's called). In there, he meets Shatner in the middle of enjoying his happy fantasy and convinces him to help him stop the bad guy. In the course of doing so, Shatner get killed (kind of lamely) though poignantly because he was alone at the time (Shatner notably states in earlier films, he always knows he's safe from death because he's never alone - i.e., his crew will save him). Picard buries Shatner on that random planet and that's it.
So...apparently for some reason Section 31 dug up Kirk's body. Perhaps Picard's body is just part of the Enterprise captain collection. Granted, with the way this season has been going, now I'm expecting a de-aged Kirk voiced by Shatner to appear at some point.
And I realized I was wrong, it was a genetically modified "attack tribble." If that isn't horrifying.
posted by Atreides at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
While I did roll my eyes a little when they resurrected Data again, it was kind of inevitable -- I think Brent Spiner will be in Star Trek forever (which is good; I like him). And at least they have consolidated some of the 37 characters he has played into one (with some bonus Lal). I am excited to see where they go with the multiple VMs running on the same hardware.
Worf continues to be great. I enjoyed the Chateau Picard burn and the awkward relationship commentary.
I would love to know what idiot was responsible for engineering the attack tribble, and why -- it seems like an extremely bad idea for a bioweapon; I'm guessing it's the Section 31 equivalent of projects like the bat bomb.
Jack felt a bit more like a person and less like a McGuffin in this episode -- I liked his interaction with Seven. He hasn't been the most compelling of the new characters, but he is getting some development, and I hope that he survives the season and ends up in the hypothetical spinoff that I think a lot of us are assuming is being set up here.
I liked the LaForge family dynamics; if Sidney ends up in the spinoff, we will hopefully see more of Geordi as a guest star. In general I hope most if not all of the original TNG cast survives and is able to make the occasional Spock-like appearance.
I'm still holding out hope for a (non-Worf) DS9 cast member, but at least the references we've had so far have made DS9 feel more integrated into the rest of the canon.
posted by confluency at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Worf continues to be great. I enjoyed the Chateau Picard burn and the awkward relationship commentary.
I would love to know what idiot was responsible for engineering the attack tribble, and why -- it seems like an extremely bad idea for a bioweapon; I'm guessing it's the Section 31 equivalent of projects like the bat bomb.
Jack felt a bit more like a person and less like a McGuffin in this episode -- I liked his interaction with Seven. He hasn't been the most compelling of the new characters, but he is getting some development, and I hope that he survives the season and ends up in the hypothetical spinoff that I think a lot of us are assuming is being set up here.
I liked the LaForge family dynamics; if Sidney ends up in the spinoff, we will hopefully see more of Geordi as a guest star. In general I hope most if not all of the original TNG cast survives and is able to make the occasional Spock-like appearance.
I'm still holding out hope for a (non-Worf) DS9 cast member, but at least the references we've had so far have made DS9 feel more integrated into the rest of the canon.
posted by confluency at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one who heard a couple of TOS-era med-table beeps when Kirk's body's image was shown?
Wil Wheaton's Ready Room episode connected to this one had a few other holographic images of things stored on Daystrom Station, including a Kataan Probe from "Inner Light", an Oscillation Overthruster, a mislabeled Minosian Echo Papa 607 drone (spelled "Pappa" on the holo) from "The Arsenal of Freedom", and an Arretan consciousness receptacle from TOS: "Return to Tomorrow".
I get that maybe Picard doesn't know that the fleet is interconnected (obviously it's safe to do that now that the Cylon War is over), but wouldn't Shaw?
posted by hanov3r at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wil Wheaton's Ready Room episode connected to this one had a few other holographic images of things stored on Daystrom Station, including a Kataan Probe from "Inner Light", an Oscillation Overthruster, a mislabeled Minosian Echo Papa 607 drone (spelled "Pappa" on the holo) from "The Arsenal of Freedom", and an Arretan consciousness receptacle from TOS: "Return to Tomorrow".
I get that maybe Picard doesn't know that the fleet is interconnected (obviously it's safe to do that now that the Cylon War is over), but wouldn't Shaw?
posted by hanov3r at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps Picard's body is just part of the Enterprise captain collection.
Hmm. Probably some empty drawers there. Archer, April, Jellico, Harriman: sure. Pike is possibly still thirty on Talos IV, Garrett is presumably lost, Will Decker got turned into energy, Spock diverted the Lens Flare Universe.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hmm. Probably some empty drawers there. Archer, April, Jellico, Harriman: sure. Pike is possibly still thirty on Talos IV, Garrett is presumably lost, Will Decker got turned into energy, Spock diverted the Lens Flare Universe.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hell yeah this was a nostalgia trip, but I was 1701% fine with it.
- I would love to know what idiot was responsible for engineering the attack tribble, and why -- it seems like an extremely bad idea for a bioweapon; I'm guessing it's the Section 31 equivalent of projects like the bat bomb.
This may be a callback to the fact that tribbles as we've always known them were themselves bioengineered from a slowly-reproducing species, as we saw in the Short Treks episode "The Trouble with Edward." [FF post] There's also maaaaaybe a sort of sideways reference to the TAS episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles" [FF post] and the "glommer", a genetically-engineered tribble killer.
- Speaking of bad ideas, who built another Genesis Device?
- Just found the secret to the New Jersey, NCC-1975: the location and year of Terry Matalas' birth, because he hasn't had enough references to himself in this season yet. Sheesh.
- I was wondering why one of the computer schematics in the end credits was a diagram of a Klingon cloaking device. (Said schematic being the creation of Rick Sternbach, BTW.)
- A bit disappointed that Moriarty didn't turn out to be the big bad, getting revenge on Jean-Luc for sticking him in a box and forgetting about him. Although we still don't know the identity of Mystery Face, so who knows.
- And I sort of get the idea behind putting some of the more notorious captains' corpses on ice; they've been through some stuff and may have some valuable information to yield to future, more-advanced autopsies. Both Kirk and Picard have been in the Nexus, after all.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
- I would love to know what idiot was responsible for engineering the attack tribble, and why -- it seems like an extremely bad idea for a bioweapon; I'm guessing it's the Section 31 equivalent of projects like the bat bomb.
This may be a callback to the fact that tribbles as we've always known them were themselves bioengineered from a slowly-reproducing species, as we saw in the Short Treks episode "The Trouble with Edward." [FF post] There's also maaaaaybe a sort of sideways reference to the TAS episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles" [FF post] and the "glommer", a genetically-engineered tribble killer.
- Speaking of bad ideas, who built another Genesis Device?
- Just found the secret to the New Jersey, NCC-1975: the location and year of Terry Matalas' birth, because he hasn't had enough references to himself in this season yet. Sheesh.
- I was wondering why one of the computer schematics in the end credits was a diagram of a Klingon cloaking device. (Said schematic being the creation of Rick Sternbach, BTW.)
- A bit disappointed that Moriarty didn't turn out to be the big bad, getting revenge on Jean-Luc for sticking him in a box and forgetting about him. Although we still don't know the identity of Mystery Face, so who knows.
- And I sort of get the idea behind putting some of the more notorious captains' corpses on ice; they've been through some stuff and may have some valuable information to yield to future, more-advanced autopsies. Both Kirk and Picard have been in the Nexus, after all.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
A bit disappointed that Moriarty didn't turn out to be the big bad, getting revenge on Jean-Luc for sticking him in a box and forgetting about him.
This may be a rare bit of restraint on the part of the franchise; after all, we did have a movie (and then a sloppy, muddled remake) about a past antagonist who turned out to be the big bad, getting revenge on Kirk for sticking him on a planet and forgetting about him.
It is odd that the STIV bird-of-prey gets a supporting role here. It was last seen onscreen 37 years ago. I wonder if in the other giant sf franchise if Bo Katan's ship will have its last appearance onscreen this season until it turns up again in 2060. Of course, as I remarked in the thread for The Force Awakens, the "Chewie, we're home" moment was the first time in 35 years we had seen Han Solo on the Millennium Falcon.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:58 PM on March 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
This may be a rare bit of restraint on the part of the franchise; after all, we did have a movie (and then a sloppy, muddled remake) about a past antagonist who turned out to be the big bad, getting revenge on Kirk for sticking him on a planet and forgetting about him.
It is odd that the STIV bird-of-prey gets a supporting role here. It was last seen onscreen 37 years ago. I wonder if in the other giant sf franchise if Bo Katan's ship will have its last appearance onscreen this season until it turns up again in 2060. Of course, as I remarked in the thread for The Force Awakens, the "Chewie, we're home" moment was the first time in 35 years we had seen Han Solo on the Millennium Falcon.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:58 PM on March 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
There were a lot of references and most of it worked for me. The interactions between the TNG crew were excellent, but I'm mad as hell that Troi this season has been flashback wife and now kidnap victim. (I'm secretly hoping she's a changeling and they are using the image of her to keep Riker in line - and somehow real Troi will save her husband.)
Fleet museum was great, especially since it told us more about Jack (he likes starships but not necessarily Starfleet, that's cool) and Seven got to have her moment looking at Voyager. Seems odd that Jack knows the Defiant (unless it's had some other famous adventures off screen) but not Voyager, which was famously missing for so long. Though I guess that was before he was born?
I didn't expect to be so moved by Geordi's return and they made his story with his daughters work really well. This feels like a solid family story rather than the oddness of Picard and Jack, but at least drawing parallels was meaningful.
Resurrecting Data again - not the same Data, though - seems lazy. He's died twice and every resurrection dulls the impact of those previous deaths. I wish they'd trusted Spiner to just act and not have to announce each personality as they appeared. I loved how he helped them disable Moriarty - that flashback was a hell of a thing.
Four more episodes to go and I feel like the season has found its footing but is also dangerously close to not having enough time to wrap everything up.
All that said, I can't believe they have Kirk's body just tucked away for safe keeping. JFC that's so disrespectful.
posted by crossoverman at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Fleet museum was great, especially since it told us more about Jack (he likes starships but not necessarily Starfleet, that's cool) and Seven got to have her moment looking at Voyager. Seems odd that Jack knows the Defiant (unless it's had some other famous adventures off screen) but not Voyager, which was famously missing for so long. Though I guess that was before he was born?
I didn't expect to be so moved by Geordi's return and they made his story with his daughters work really well. This feels like a solid family story rather than the oddness of Picard and Jack, but at least drawing parallels was meaningful.
Resurrecting Data again - not the same Data, though - seems lazy. He's died twice and every resurrection dulls the impact of those previous deaths. I wish they'd trusted Spiner to just act and not have to announce each personality as they appeared. I loved how he helped them disable Moriarty - that flashback was a hell of a thing.
Four more episodes to go and I feel like the season has found its footing but is also dangerously close to not having enough time to wrap everything up.
All that said, I can't believe they have Kirk's body just tucked away for safe keeping. JFC that's so disrespectful.
posted by crossoverman at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think Brent Spiner will be in Star Trek forever (which is good; I like him).
I like the idea that he eventually can't do Trek any more because he'll have to play Bob Wheeler on Night Court.
posted by JHarris at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
I like the idea that he eventually can't do Trek any more because he'll have to play Bob Wheeler on Night Court.
posted by JHarris at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
I have a hunch that isn't really Deanna Troi on Vadick's ship.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 PM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 PM on March 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's just so great to see LeVar Burton's whole face. His reaction to seeing Data made me glow with delight.
posted by tomboko at 7:19 PM on March 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 7:19 PM on March 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
<3 Stashwick. I still can't quite tell if Shaw is hamming it up to butter up LaForge or he really "My face is red!"
Good energy in this one even if plot magic.
As for the attack tribble, I find that particularly cruel. To keep a live creature in confined captivity - and systematically breed them as part of a 'museum.'
Working with (transgenic) mice, we made sure to husband humanely - no more than were needed, and in conditions as well as grant money binned for animals could provide. That attack tribble's aggressive-appearing behaviour at detecting another entity could be a result of it's living conditions rather than any innate proclivity. For all we know, it's great at scraping algae off rocks in tidal pools.
Who knows, whoever engineered the attack tribble could have put in three or eight kill switches - severe anaphylactic reaction to a whole bunch of different antigens natural or synthetic. There could be a whole matrix of cheap and effective weapons against attack tribbles that sufficient to overpower evolutionary responses in a high-er-order organism.
posted by porpoise at 11:06 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Good energy in this one even if plot magic.
As for the attack tribble, I find that particularly cruel. To keep a live creature in confined captivity - and systematically breed them as part of a 'museum.'
Working with (transgenic) mice, we made sure to husband humanely - no more than were needed, and in conditions as well as grant money binned for animals could provide. That attack tribble's aggressive-appearing behaviour at detecting another entity could be a result of it's living conditions rather than any innate proclivity. For all we know, it's great at scraping algae off rocks in tidal pools.
Who knows, whoever engineered the attack tribble could have put in three or eight kill switches - severe anaphylactic reaction to a whole bunch of different antigens natural or synthetic. There could be a whole matrix of cheap and effective weapons against attack tribbles that sufficient to overpower evolutionary responses in a high-er-order organism.
posted by porpoise at 11:06 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
No notes! Loved it, to my surprise - and I'm fully on board for the adventure.
posted by Space Kitty at 11:50 PM on March 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Space Kitty at 11:50 PM on March 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
come to think of it, if memory serves, reviewers were only given the first six episodes of the season — so I'm kind of curious if they were just cutting it close with production of the last third, or just didn't want to let any other spoilers out, or what
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:56 PM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:56 PM on March 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not an actor, but I imagine it must be weird, standing behind your own Dad, playing his dutiful Daughter and watching him talk to someone else - that you're not related to - playing his other Prodigal Daughter.
I'm a big fan of Mica and when she told Jack to holster his Phaser - that was just :: cheffkiss ::
posted by Faintdreams at 4:06 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm a big fan of Mica and when she told Jack to holster his Phaser - that was just :: cheffkiss ::
posted by Faintdreams at 4:06 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
How could I forget? Worf has first-hand experience of blowing a mission because he chose to save his wife over the mission objective. So his apprehensiveness was understandable.
posted by confluency at 5:09 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by confluency at 5:09 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have a hunch that isn't really Deanna Troi on Vadick's ship.
It seems at least a bit of skepticism would be called for.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:22 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seems at least a bit of skepticism would be called for.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:22 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's entirely possible that one reason we had the fake Ensign La Forge a couple episodes earlier is to setup how Riker will realize that it's not his Deanna that's being threatened.
How could I forget? Worf has first-hand experience of blowing a mission because he chose to save his wife over the mission objective. So his apprehensiveness was understandable.
Deep cut! That reminded me that Sisko thought that decision likely cost Worf any type of captaincy in the future.
posted by Atreides at 6:42 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
How could I forget? Worf has first-hand experience of blowing a mission because he chose to save his wife over the mission objective. So his apprehensiveness was understandable.
Deep cut! That reminded me that Sisko thought that decision likely cost Worf any type of captaincy in the future.
posted by Atreides at 6:42 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was hoping that the unusual AI running the Daystrom facility would be Lower Decks's Badgey. I was also hoping for a cameo from Peanut Hamper, mostly so that Patrick Stewart would have to say the words "Peanut Hamper".
I also thought it was a nice touch that the Daystrom facility was a kitbash model (in CG, so they didn't have to do it this way) of a starbase, the MIDAS array from Voyager, and the ARGUS array from TNG. It's as if they mashed them all together into one structure.
In addition to Picard's corpse, Daystrom also has Kirk's remains recovered from Veridian III. The description on that container notes that he was recovered as part of something called Project Phoenix. I also saw online where it's claimed a similar container for Archer can be seen near Moriarty when he first appears. Enterprise captains: collect 'em all!
That reminded me that Sisko thought that decision likely cost Worf any type of captaincy in the future.
The backstory for this season includes Worf earning the captaincy of the Enterprise-E after Picard left to run the Romulan relocation mission. It's not mentioned onscreen, just in the ancillary materials.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:05 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
I also thought it was a nice touch that the Daystrom facility was a kitbash model (in CG, so they didn't have to do it this way) of a starbase, the MIDAS array from Voyager, and the ARGUS array from TNG. It's as if they mashed them all together into one structure.
In addition to Picard's corpse, Daystrom also has Kirk's remains recovered from Veridian III. The description on that container notes that he was recovered as part of something called Project Phoenix. I also saw online where it's claimed a similar container for Archer can be seen near Moriarty when he first appears. Enterprise captains: collect 'em all!
That reminded me that Sisko thought that decision likely cost Worf any type of captaincy in the future.
The backstory for this season includes Worf earning the captaincy of the Enterprise-E after Picard left to run the Romulan relocation mission. It's not mentioned onscreen, just in the ancillary materials.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:05 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just found the secret to the New Jersey, NCC-1975: the location and year of Terry Matalas' birth, because he hasn't had enough references to himself in this season yet. Sheesh.
I choose to think of it as "reverse fanservice" to battleship New Jersey museum and her curator Ryan Symanski.
posted by mikelieman at 7:44 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I choose to think of it as "reverse fanservice" to battleship New Jersey museum and her curator Ryan Symanski.
posted by mikelieman at 7:44 AM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm not an actor, but I imagine it must be weird, standing behind your own Dad, playing his dutiful Daughter and watching him talk to someone else - that you're not related to - playing his other Prodigal Daughter.
If you haven't, watch this week's Ready Room. Mica, Ashlei, and LeVar talk about acting as a family and the bond they all shared together.
posted by hanov3r at 7:54 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you haven't, watch this week's Ready Room. Mica, Ashlei, and LeVar talk about acting as a family and the bond they all shared together.
posted by hanov3r at 7:54 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
In addition to Picard's corpse, Daystrom also has Kirk's remains recovered from Veridian III. The description on that container notes that he was recovered as part of something called Project Phoenix. I also saw online where it's claimed a similar container for Archer can be seen near Moriarty when he first appears. Enterprise captains: collect 'em all!
Yes, the Screen Crush easter egg video pointed this out. I think they just included Kirk and Archer to rationalize why Daystrom would have Picard's corpse - "Oh, yes, we keep all the captains. No, nothing creepy about it at all!"
While this entire season has been dripping with fanservice, that scene with Jack and Seven really takes the cake. But the inclusion of the U.S.S. New Jersey, a ship no one has ever seen or heard of before, just to give Terry Matalas another little ego-boo is inexcusable. Shaw not giving two shits about Picard and Riker but gushing over LaForge was great. I wish he had been given more to do in this episode. I mean, he is still the captain of the Titan and an engineer. He and Geordi could have bonded over installing the cloaking device instead of that stupid starship stuff, and it would have actually been better for the story.
Looks like I was wrong about Geordi being a Changeling, although that still could happen. But I am betting that Deanna is a Changeling decoy to get Riker to talk, and he'll figure it out the same way Seven tripped up the Sydney doppleganger.
Amanda Plummer's "Hi!" may be the best villain line ever.
posted by briank at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, the Screen Crush easter egg video pointed this out. I think they just included Kirk and Archer to rationalize why Daystrom would have Picard's corpse - "Oh, yes, we keep all the captains. No, nothing creepy about it at all!"
While this entire season has been dripping with fanservice, that scene with Jack and Seven really takes the cake. But the inclusion of the U.S.S. New Jersey, a ship no one has ever seen or heard of before, just to give Terry Matalas another little ego-boo is inexcusable. Shaw not giving two shits about Picard and Riker but gushing over LaForge was great. I wish he had been given more to do in this episode. I mean, he is still the captain of the Titan and an engineer. He and Geordi could have bonded over installing the cloaking device instead of that stupid starship stuff, and it would have actually been better for the story.
Looks like I was wrong about Geordi being a Changeling, although that still could happen. But I am betting that Deanna is a Changeling decoy to get Riker to talk, and he'll figure it out the same way Seven tripped up the Sydney doppleganger.
Amanda Plummer's "Hi!" may be the best villain line ever.
posted by briank at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think they just included Kirk and Archer to rationalize why Daystrom would have Picard's corpse
Picard was Locutus. I would think Section 31 has been aching to get a look at his body for decades now. I'd expect similar of Seven once her time comes. So much they could learn from deassimilated Borg anatomy.
Amanda Plummer's "Hi!" may be the best villain line ever.
"Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero."
posted by Servo5678 at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Picard was Locutus. I would think Section 31 has been aching to get a look at his body for decades now. I'd expect similar of Seven once her time comes. So much they could learn from deassimilated Borg anatomy.
Amanda Plummer's "Hi!" may be the best villain line ever.
"Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero."
posted by Servo5678 at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Project Phoenix" may also be a reference to the non-canon books "written" by Shatner in which Kirk is resurrected.
Also, is this the first time since TOS when we've seen a Commodore?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, is this the first time since TOS when we've seen a Commodore?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
I choose to think of it as "reverse fanservice" to battleship New Jersey museum and her curator Ryan Symanski.
"Hi I'm Ryan Szimanski, Curator for the Athan Prime Fleet Museum and Memorial. Today we're going to do something I've always wanted to do — crawl through a Mark VI photon torpedo tube."
posted by nathan_teske at 8:35 AM on March 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Hi I'm Ryan Szimanski, Curator for the Athan Prime Fleet Museum and Memorial. Today we're going to do something I've always wanted to do — crawl through a Mark VI photon torpedo tube."
posted by nathan_teske at 8:35 AM on March 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
Amanda Plummer's "Hi!" may be the best villain line ever.
*needle scratch noise*
VADIC IS PLAYED BY AMANDA PLUMMER?????
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
*needle scratch noise*
VADIC IS PLAYED BY AMANDA PLUMMER?????
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Picard was Locutus. I would think Section 31 has been aching to get a look at his body for decades now. I'd expect similar of Seven once her time comes. So much they could learn from deassimilated Borg anatomy.
I think we're going full-circle here — the shadowing on the right half of the Picardcicle's face matches-up with Locutus's facial implants. Maybe the Changelings are partially assimilated and plan to resurrect Locutus as a tool to avenge the Borg and Dominion?
posted by nathan_teske at 8:43 AM on March 24, 2023
I think we're going full-circle here — the shadowing on the right half of the Picardcicle's face matches-up with Locutus's facial implants. Maybe the Changelings are partially assimilated and plan to resurrect Locutus as a tool to avenge the Borg and Dominion?
posted by nathan_teske at 8:43 AM on March 24, 2023
It would seem that Ready Room videos are not legally available in my region.
Which.. Paramount and Amazon have really gone Above and Beyond to alienate people with the distribution of this show and it's associated material.
Just infuriatingly shoddy.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Which.. Paramount and Amazon have really gone Above and Beyond to alienate people with the distribution of this show and it's associated material.
Just infuriatingly shoddy.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Ready Room episodes are also viewable (if well hidden) from inside the Paramount+ app.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:57 AM on March 24, 2023
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:57 AM on March 24, 2023
With the multiple references to the "whole fleet being gathered" and all the ships being networked, over LaForge's objections, I have a suspicion that the changelings are going to pull a Battlestar Gallactica, and somehow take down the whole fleet at once.
Perhaps then we could see our heroes form a makeshift armada of the mothballed ships. Seven with Voyager, Worf with the Defiant, etc.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:59 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Perhaps then we could see our heroes form a makeshift armada of the mothballed ships. Seven with Voyager, Worf with the Defiant, etc.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:59 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
VADIC IS PLAYED BY AMANDA PLUMMER?????
You can tell from how she spun around gleefully in her chair, the way her dad taught her to do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:10 AM on March 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
You can tell from how she spun around gleefully in her chair, the way her dad taught her to do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:10 AM on March 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
I think Beverly is a changeling.
Remember all the old mission log recordings (and mixtapes) when we first see her ship? I think she was studying to pass as Beverly with the people who knew her back then.
The recap showed her saying the line about "any one of us could be a changeling... and we would never know." Then, quick cut to gross autopsy stuff. Look over there! Think about how Trek likes to put upsetting stuff in recaps over and over [Discovery, Dr. Culber]! Don't think about Beverly right now, on with other stuff....
I think "She's a FAAAAKE!"
posted by tomboko at 9:17 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Remember all the old mission log recordings (and mixtapes) when we first see her ship? I think she was studying to pass as Beverly with the people who knew her back then.
The recap showed her saying the line about "any one of us could be a changeling... and we would never know." Then, quick cut to gross autopsy stuff. Look over there! Think about how Trek likes to put upsetting stuff in recaps over and over [Discovery, Dr. Culber]! Don't think about Beverly right now, on with other stuff....
I think "She's a FAAAAKE!"
posted by tomboko at 9:17 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Perhaps then we could see our heroes form a makeshift armada of the mothballed ships. Seven with Voyager, Worf with the Defiant, etc.
Project Phoenix Kirk with the Enterprise-A. Project Phoenix Archer with the NX-01. Project Phoenix Harriman with the Enterprise-B, but nothing on it works and he spends the whole battle just spinning the ship in circles like a broken bumper car.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Project Phoenix Kirk with the Enterprise-A. Project Phoenix Archer with the NX-01. Project Phoenix Harriman with the Enterprise-B, but nothing on it works and he spends the whole battle just spinning the ship in circles like a broken bumper car.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
The maneuvering thrusters were supposed to be installed on Tuesday.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:22 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:22 AM on March 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Maybe the Red Lady statue is Project Phoenix Garrett?
posted by hanov3r at 11:28 AM on March 24, 2023
posted by hanov3r at 11:28 AM on March 24, 2023
Also, is this the first time since TOS when we've seen a Commodore?
No, the main PIC season 1 baddie was a Commodore. There have also appeared in TAS and ENT.
posted by biffa at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, the main PIC season 1 baddie was a Commodore. There have also appeared in TAS and ENT.
posted by biffa at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some great dialogue in this episode, especially from Worf, but I cannot be the only one who noticed that MOST OF IT MADE NO DAMN SENSE AT ALL!
Oh no! If they hit us, they can track us! Somehow, even if we're entirely out of their sensor range! Which turns out to be irrelevant, since they're tracking us anyway! Using a method that everyone on board the ship should already have known about! But which mysteriously didn't work when the enemy was fooled by our ejected transponder, which later we're explicitly told is something that won't work! But it's OK, we'll steal a cloaking device which for some reason isn't installed on every ship in the fleet even though they've been around for like a hundred years now!
Just GAAAAH!
posted by kyrademon at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh no! If they hit us, they can track us! Somehow, even if we're entirely out of their sensor range! Which turns out to be irrelevant, since they're tracking us anyway! Using a method that everyone on board the ship should already have known about! But which mysteriously didn't work when the enemy was fooled by our ejected transponder, which later we're explicitly told is something that won't work! But it's OK, we'll steal a cloaking device which for some reason isn't installed on every ship in the fleet even though they've been around for like a hundred years now!
Just GAAAAH!
posted by kyrademon at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have a pretty wacky hypothesis: the genetically engineered tribble is a JMS reference.
In 2004, J. Michael Straczynski and Bryce Zabel proposed rebooting the Star Trek universe and their proposal included a suggestion: what if the tiny cute Tribbles were "equipped with an agenda, an attitude... and teeth?"
The proposal as a whole makes for interesting reading but I think the Tribble suggestion is pretty laughable. So I think maybe the geneng tribble we glimpse is a joking reference to that proposal.
posted by brainwane at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
In 2004, J. Michael Straczynski and Bryce Zabel proposed rebooting the Star Trek universe and their proposal included a suggestion: what if the tiny cute Tribbles were "equipped with an agenda, an attitude... and teeth?"
The proposal as a whole makes for interesting reading but I think the Tribble suggestion is pretty laughable. So I think maybe the geneng tribble we glimpse is a joking reference to that proposal.
posted by brainwane at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Goodness this show is a hot mess. Still firmly on the side of being entertained by it. But while the last episode I remarked all the fan servicey stuff worked beause it tapped into the best of Trek (Ro Laren!)... This failed because it tapped into all the worst of trek. Kirk's corpse? Picard's positronic body and his corpse? Attack tribbles? Just ridiculous. Still fun, and I do admire their commitment to the bit.
The second time they pointed out "Data's died twice, yet here he is" I laughed out loud.
They're so hell-bent on referencing old Trek: TOS, DS9, Voyager.. I'm left wondering, where's my Enterprise shout-outs? Maybe some decontamination gel? And what about the animated series? Come on Matalas, have some courage. Bring us more Kzinti.
posted by Nelson at 8:28 PM on March 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
The second time they pointed out "Data's died twice, yet here he is" I laughed out loud.
They're so hell-bent on referencing old Trek: TOS, DS9, Voyager.. I'm left wondering, where's my Enterprise shout-outs? Maybe some decontamination gel? And what about the animated series? Come on Matalas, have some courage. Bring us more Kzinti.
posted by Nelson at 8:28 PM on March 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Ready Room videos are available on Facebook -it worked for me in Australia so maybe elsewhere too?
posted by Coaticass at 12:51 AM on March 25, 2023
posted by Coaticass at 12:51 AM on March 25, 2023
If this link doesn't work try searching Facebook for Star Trek Ready Room.
posted by Coaticass at 12:56 AM on March 25, 2023
posted by Coaticass at 12:56 AM on March 25, 2023
The second time they pointed out "Data's died twice, yet here he is" I laughed out loud.
Well, it beats, “Somehow Palpatine has returned!”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:20 AM on March 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
Well, it beats, “Somehow Palpatine has returned!”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:20 AM on March 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
Goodness this show is a hot mess. Still firmly on the side of being entertained by it.
I’m on the side of begrudgingly watching it. It has moments that are good, but a great deal of it is, as someone noted above, “too much cake”. Or to stretch the metaphor further, cake with too much icing.
This episode was almost all icing on top of a few crumbs.
Don’t get me wrong, I love TNG. I bought the whole series once on DVD and again on Blu Ray. But this show is the thinnest story drowned in fanservice, parading the old actors past the camera.
I truly wish it were better.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:39 AM on March 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
I’m on the side of begrudgingly watching it. It has moments that are good, but a great deal of it is, as someone noted above, “too much cake”. Or to stretch the metaphor further, cake with too much icing.
This episode was almost all icing on top of a few crumbs.
Don’t get me wrong, I love TNG. I bought the whole series once on DVD and again on Blu Ray. But this show is the thinnest story drowned in fanservice, parading the old actors past the camera.
I truly wish it were better.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:39 AM on March 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
But this show is the thinnest story drowned in fanservice, parading the old actors past the camera.
The format appears to be "keep Picard in some type of peril that is close, but never quite imminent enough to keep Picard from sitting down with someone from his past so they can air their grievances and reconcile; liberally sprinkle rest of episode with nostalgia and references".
posted by nubs at 5:36 AM on March 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
The format appears to be "keep Picard in some type of peril that is close, but never quite imminent enough to keep Picard from sitting down with someone from his past so they can air their grievances and reconcile; liberally sprinkle rest of episode with nostalgia and references".
posted by nubs at 5:36 AM on March 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
There was literally a a museum display of our beloved old starships. To go with the museum of dangerous old strange artifacts.
posted by Nelson at 6:53 AM on March 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 6:53 AM on March 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
So that episode was a mess because going to Daystrlm to “clear their names” makes no sense. Going there to figure out what was stolen so they can figure out the Frontier Day plot to stop it makes sense. But then you’d think they’d be trying to figure out why they changelings in starfleet faces and vadic (folks on the Titan don’t know vadic is one) want jack crusher. but basically no time has been spent on that.
anyway the various heart to hearts are good but narratively (“we have an hour to get back to daystron to rescue worf et al”) makes it hard to believe. the story line could have gone with less time pressure. put the big deadline for when they think a bad thing is going to happen a month out. don’t make the chasers be so effective at finding the Titan. most of the reunions the characters hadn’t seen each other in years but have pass experience shutting down personal shit to solve crises. they need time to hang out not under immediate threat of death for it to make sense to me (or the falling to certain doom emotional stuff worked because they clearly felt at least a little like they couldn’t solve it)
but still overall fun.
posted by R343L at 9:11 AM on March 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
anyway the various heart to hearts are good but narratively (“we have an hour to get back to daystron to rescue worf et al”) makes it hard to believe. the story line could have gone with less time pressure. put the big deadline for when they think a bad thing is going to happen a month out. don’t make the chasers be so effective at finding the Titan. most of the reunions the characters hadn’t seen each other in years but have pass experience shutting down personal shit to solve crises. they need time to hang out not under immediate threat of death for it to make sense to me (or the falling to certain doom emotional stuff worked because they clearly felt at least a little like they couldn’t solve it)
but still overall fun.
posted by R343L at 9:11 AM on March 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe some decontamination gel?
Speaking of the worst of Trek... But seriously, TAS and ENT references have appeared in the current animated series (Prodigy, Lower Decks). There's also been some calls for T'Pol to appear in SNW.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:21 AM on March 25, 2023
Speaking of the worst of Trek... But seriously, TAS and ENT references have appeared in the current animated series (Prodigy, Lower Decks). There's also been some calls for T'Pol to appear in SNW.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:21 AM on March 25, 2023
On second watch, it's marked as a "Genesis II device". I wonder if that's a reference to Roddenberry's failed 1973 pilot, "Genesis II", starring Alex Cord as Dylan Hunt (the first of three times Roddenberry-affiliated TV shows would use that name).
posted by hanov3r at 11:51 AM on March 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hanov3r at 11:51 AM on March 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
An Assimilated changeling, how would that work? when they turn to goo, wouldn't the implants just fall out?
Why would a changeling have scars, except as an affectation?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 2:12 PM on March 25, 2023
Why would a changeling have scars, except as an affectation?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 2:12 PM on March 25, 2023
Why would a changeling have scars, except as an affectation?
There was that viral bioweapon from the fine folks at Section 31
posted by sixswitch at 3:40 PM on March 25, 2023
There was that viral bioweapon from the fine folks at Section 31
posted by sixswitch at 3:40 PM on March 25, 2023
As much as I enjoyed this episode and the previous one - they did a lot of good things that balanced out only mildly stupid things, the more I think about it, the more shallow nonsense it becomes. For all the nostalgia porn, it still wildly misses the mark at being Star Trek. Even though it's essentially trying to be a Trek movie (the JJ movies aside), the Trek movies always had a strong theme and used allegory well. Why resurrect Data again? What is combining all the Soong androids into one device supposed to represent? (Why do the writers always forget that if you're going to use all of Soong's androids, you should also mention Julianna - the wife robot Soong made after the original Julianna died? The one that was almost human!) The story does it to get Brent Spiner back. The writers do it for plot contrivances. But what does it all mean? Basically nothing.
Sure, this episode had themes of family and fatherhood and how you pass things down from generation to generation, but it sort of pales in comparison to what Trek normally shines a light on - what it means to be human, what it means to explore new worlds, how communities interact, how living on a starship long term affects you, not to mention discussions of class, gender, sexuality, race, etc, etc, etc.
Dr Crusher and Deanna Troi got sidelined in the TNG movies and now they are being sidelined in the reunion show. Crusher last week was basically monologuing to someone in sick bay who never responded and this week she's just there to hug former crewmates and make a bad analogy about diamonds and pearls. Deanna has only been seen as flashback and now she's either a changeling or a kidnap victim, neither of which is great for the character of Deanna.
So many Next Next Generation characters talking about the legacy of their fathers with nary a mention of mothers at all.
posted by crossoverman at 6:21 PM on March 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
Sure, this episode had themes of family and fatherhood and how you pass things down from generation to generation, but it sort of pales in comparison to what Trek normally shines a light on - what it means to be human, what it means to explore new worlds, how communities interact, how living on a starship long term affects you, not to mention discussions of class, gender, sexuality, race, etc, etc, etc.
Dr Crusher and Deanna Troi got sidelined in the TNG movies and now they are being sidelined in the reunion show. Crusher last week was basically monologuing to someone in sick bay who never responded and this week she's just there to hug former crewmates and make a bad analogy about diamonds and pearls. Deanna has only been seen as flashback and now she's either a changeling or a kidnap victim, neither of which is great for the character of Deanna.
So many Next Next Generation characters talking about the legacy of their fathers with nary a mention of mothers at all.
posted by crossoverman at 6:21 PM on March 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
Shaw continues to be one of the only things I like about this show, from any season. Yet I keep watching.
posted by brundlefly at 12:14 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by brundlefly at 12:14 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have to say it's hilarious that Worf describes himself as a pacifist now despite being introduced into the show via decapitating a guy.
posted by brundlefly at 12:18 PM on March 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 12:18 PM on March 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I am sure he would reply to that drily with “it is an imperfect universe”. :)
posted by R343L at 1:04 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by R343L at 1:04 PM on March 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is emblematic of the lazy writing. Worf isn't really a pacifist, he's just learned to meditate and regulate his body and not panic. The fact he can take things calmly - like breaking into Daystrom Station - is one thing. But "decapitations are for Wednesdays" does not a pacifist make.
That said, until Geordi showed up, Worf was my favourite returning character. The comedy has worked pretty well.
posted by crossoverman at 3:11 PM on March 26, 2023
That said, until Geordi showed up, Worf was my favourite returning character. The comedy has worked pretty well.
posted by crossoverman at 3:11 PM on March 26, 2023
Why resurrect Data again?
Why use an insane non-functional android as an inventory system? Just use a database! Section 31 are worse than blockchain bros - running around with solutions in search of a problem.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:28 PM on March 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
Why use an insane non-functional android as an inventory system? Just use a database! Section 31 are worse than blockchain bros - running around with solutions in search of a problem.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:28 PM on March 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
I would just go with Worf using driest of sarcasm for the pacifist line.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:35 PM on March 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:35 PM on March 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder if Brent Spiner has photos of CBS/Paramount executives having sex with farm animals. When he cycled through several of his Star Trek characters in this episode all I did was wonder if he got paid for each of them.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:19 PM on March 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by fuse theorem at 7:19 PM on March 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Section 31 are worse than blockchain bros
I mean, their original appearances (in DS9), which tie into this series via the changelings, were based on the idea that they could recruit a very idealistic young doctor (Bashir) with no potential blowback to the organization, even though said doctor was a genetically-engineered genius. DS9 fans know very well how that worked out. And that may be why we still haven't heard anything about the proposed Section 31 spinoff; some of that may be that Michelle Yeoh has a multiverse of new opportunities now, so to speak, but I also think that they may be struggling with the concept of a black ops organization that probably thinks that they're like SHIELD but are really more like Hydra, so to speak. Maybe the best that they can do is make it more like Get Smart, in which they struggle against their own version of engineer's disease, always trying technocratic solutions that backfire.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I mean, their original appearances (in DS9), which tie into this series via the changelings, were based on the idea that they could recruit a very idealistic young doctor (Bashir) with no potential blowback to the organization, even though said doctor was a genetically-engineered genius. DS9 fans know very well how that worked out. And that may be why we still haven't heard anything about the proposed Section 31 spinoff; some of that may be that Michelle Yeoh has a multiverse of new opportunities now, so to speak, but I also think that they may be struggling with the concept of a black ops organization that probably thinks that they're like SHIELD but are really more like Hydra, so to speak. Maybe the best that they can do is make it more like Get Smart, in which they struggle against their own version of engineer's disease, always trying technocratic solutions that backfire.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Section 31 is another of DS9's great ideas that has been used worse and worse every time they have come up. Now they are an official part of Starfleet that everyone knows about and no one is surprised they are keeping secrets. On DS9, while they were ostensibly on the Federation's side, they weren't affiliated with Starfleet and were very covert. Now that feel more like the CIA, doing black ops but everyone knows where there head office is. On DISCO, they even had their own uniforms and comm badges and there wasn't even much covert about them.
posted by crossoverman at 5:22 PM on March 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 5:22 PM on March 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
For all the nostalgia porn, it still wildly misses the mark at being Star Trek. Even though it's essentially trying to be a Trek movie (the JJ movies aside), the Trek movies always had a strong theme and used allegory well.
Yes, indeed. Matalas does fanservice and nostalgia like there's no tomorrow. But the creative allegories that made for the very best episodes of the classic Trek shows have been completely missing here.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:28 PM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yes, indeed. Matalas does fanservice and nostalgia like there's no tomorrow. But the creative allegories that made for the very best episodes of the classic Trek shows have been completely missing here.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:28 PM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Lower Decks & SNW renewed and Strange New Worlds Season 2 gets an air date starting June 15. Oh no, two months without new trek on TV?
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 11:12 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 11:12 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
They really spoiled us with that almost complete year of new Trek, daisychaining one new show after another.
Also, Star Trek Prodigy was renewed, likely to appear in December 2023. Don't sleep on this show, especially if you're a Voyager fan!
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on March 29, 2023
Also, Star Trek Prodigy was renewed, likely to appear in December 2023. Don't sleep on this show, especially if you're a Voyager fan!
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on March 29, 2023
Prodigy is amazing, so so much more than it seems to be.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2023
posted by LooseFilter at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2023
Also, Star Trek Prodigy was renewed, likely to appear in December 2023.
Season 2 of Prodigy was announced ages ago. I suspect it will be renewed again, since it targets a particular market and it is very good.
posted by crossoverman at 3:31 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Season 2 of Prodigy was announced ages ago. I suspect it will be renewed again, since it targets a particular market and it is very good.
posted by crossoverman at 3:31 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I suspect within 36 hours we will see on YouTube the concerned group gather round Data projecting the hologram of Leia pleading, “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You’re my only hope.”Please hope me.
posted by mce at 9:39 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
What info does Riker have that would jeopardize the Federation if he gave it up? He doesn't know what the Titan is going to do next or anything about Jack. So can't he just reveal everything in good conscience and save Troi? Even if it is just a changeling and he's tricked what's he really giving them?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:29 AM on April 26, 2023
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:29 AM on April 26, 2023
Shaw’s been weirdly sidelined the past episode or two. We are still on his ship, after all.
The Worf/Raffi pairing didn’t work for me at first, but I am so sorry that I doubted myself. Watching Michael Dorn play Worf is (and always will be) a delight. I’m sad that we might not get to see many more Riker/Worf scenes, because their chemistry was particularly fantastic. Interestingly, Riker seems to have reverted to his TNG persona while they were together.
Why does Jack’s brain disease sometimes turn him into an unstoppable killing machine? Shouldn’t everybody be more worried about that?
Having a warehouse full of doomsday weapons is very on-brand for Section 31 (and humanity in general). I’ll add to my disappointment that they missed a good opportunity for a Lower Decks cameo.
Speaking of Lower Decks… I’m not a Star Trek superfan, and the museum scene felt a bit over the top. Of course, we’re coincidentally seeing all of the ships that happened to be the ones that we already know about. But… on further reflection, maybe Starfleet is full of captains like Shaw and ships like the Cerritos. By design, we’ve only been told the stories of the most interesting ships/crews, and the majority of the fleet is out there trudging through second-contact missions.
Also, I can totally understand why Jack would have grown up with a toy-miniature version of the Defiant, and not Voyager. Voyager’s story is… complicated and uncomfortable.
If the ships are all networked and beaconing, what’s the strategic value of the cloaking device? [It feels like they’re setting up the networking as an important plot-point, even though it’s been at odds with the plot thus far]
Anyway, they’re going all-in on the Battlestar Galactica parallels this season
posted by schmod at 12:39 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Worf/Raffi pairing didn’t work for me at first, but I am so sorry that I doubted myself. Watching Michael Dorn play Worf is (and always will be) a delight. I’m sad that we might not get to see many more Riker/Worf scenes, because their chemistry was particularly fantastic. Interestingly, Riker seems to have reverted to his TNG persona while they were together.
Why does Jack’s brain disease sometimes turn him into an unstoppable killing machine? Shouldn’t everybody be more worried about that?
Having a warehouse full of doomsday weapons is very on-brand for Section 31 (and humanity in general). I’ll add to my disappointment that they missed a good opportunity for a Lower Decks cameo.
Speaking of Lower Decks… I’m not a Star Trek superfan, and the museum scene felt a bit over the top. Of course, we’re coincidentally seeing all of the ships that happened to be the ones that we already know about. But… on further reflection, maybe Starfleet is full of captains like Shaw and ships like the Cerritos. By design, we’ve only been told the stories of the most interesting ships/crews, and the majority of the fleet is out there trudging through second-contact missions.
Also, I can totally understand why Jack would have grown up with a toy-miniature version of the Defiant, and not Voyager. Voyager’s story is… complicated and uncomfortable.
If the ships are all networked and beaconing, what’s the strategic value of the cloaking device? [It feels like they’re setting up the networking as an important plot-point, even though it’s been at odds with the plot thus far]
Anyway, they’re going all-in on the Battlestar Galactica parallels this season
- ✅ Captain and first-officer are too old for this shit
- ✅ Admonition about the dangers of networking all of the warships
- ✅ Aliens/robots that look and feel like us
- ✅ Mysterious folk music resonating throughout the ship
posted by schmod at 12:39 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anybody else notice some very Tron: Legacy music in here?Yes, they damn near used the same exact arpeggio.
posted by schmod at 12:40 PM on May 3, 2023
“Paging Ensign Tommy Westphall. Ensign Westphall to the holodeck, your program is malfunctioning.”
posted by lalochezia at 1:39 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 1:39 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
it's essentially trying to be a Trek movie
Yes. You can tell by the lighting. (Again, disregarding the JJ movies which have an entirely different lighting vocabulary built around lens flare.)
But for TNG material, if the ship is brightly lit and comfy, and you can see what's going on everywhere on the bridge, it's a TV show. If the ship is all gloomy and dark, and there are half a dozen nooks on the bridge that could be hiding a leopard for all you know, then it's a movie.
posted by Naberius at 11:23 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes. You can tell by the lighting. (Again, disregarding the JJ movies which have an entirely different lighting vocabulary built around lens flare.)
But for TNG material, if the ship is brightly lit and comfy, and you can see what's going on everywhere on the bridge, it's a TV show. If the ship is all gloomy and dark, and there are half a dozen nooks on the bridge that could be hiding a leopard for all you know, then it's a movie.
posted by Naberius at 11:23 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
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I'm glad someone enjoyed it; between the Museum and the items in the Daystrom Institute, this felt to me to be the most self-indulgent nostalgia-fest of a season full of nostalgia. Last week I felt like the series was gaining some momentum; this week it ground to a halt. Less fan service and recriminations about Jean-Luc, please; let's get on with saving the galaxy.
posted by nubs at 5:21 AM on March 23, 2023 [7 favorites]