Supergirl: Survivors
October 31, 2016 8:27 PM - Season 2, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Thrilled to have found another Martian, Hank is determined to get to know M'Gann better; Alex and Maggie discover an alien fight club run by Roulette.
*Winn catalogs Mon-El's abilities, then gets suckered into taking him out on the town. Drunkenness ensues.
*Alex and Maggie get fancied up to investigate alien fight club. There is hand-holding.
*Supergirl and the DEO break up fight club, but Roulette evades arrest due to having friends in high places.
*The last daughter of Mars is a White Martian, not a Green Martian, though the reveal is to the audience only.
*Winn catalogs Mon-El's abilities, then gets suckered into taking him out on the town. Drunkenness ensues.
*Alex and Maggie get fancied up to investigate alien fight club. There is hand-holding.
*Supergirl and the DEO break up fight club, but Roulette evades arrest due to having friends in high places.
*The last daughter of Mars is a White Martian, not a Green Martian, though the reveal is to the audience only.
Oh, and if Kara had gone to the dump to check on the pelicans (or whatever it was) and actually filed a story, she would have had a two on the whiteboard. It's amazing how the system works when you actually do your assigned tasks at work.
posted by sardonyx at 9:56 PM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 9:56 PM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Per the usual, I liked this, but it was rough around the edges.
Stuff:
* Snapper Carr was toned down to reasonable levels this time. His objections were abrasive rather than abusive. If they keep him right there, he'll be an acceptable Difficult Mentor archetype, (although I miss having a woman in the role).
* I'm not super familiar with Mon-El, since I'm more of an adaptation/wiki person than a comics reader, but it looks like they're changing more details up about him here. It was my understanding that Daxamites had all the same powers as Kryptonians, but a fatal allergy to common lead instead of Kryptonite - seems like they're powering him down, and I wonder if it's in preparation for skipping that. (A lead allergy seems pretty weaksauce, and if I were writing for this thing, I'd probably consider something like that.)
* I enjoyed Mon-El and Winn's night out. I'm not a big fan of the Daxam/Krypton culture stuff that's been introduced here, but Mon-El is working within that context, anyway.
* Lena Luthor is indeed totally up to something, and I'm still loving that dynamic, per my earlier comparison of it to back in the days of yore, when Smallville was actually any fun. I do think her desire to rehabilitate the family name is sincere, too - I hope that whatever she's got going on, it won't be a carbon copy of Lex Luthor's tropes. I hope she's doing something *interesting* and bad.
* I enjoy seeing Maggie and Alex work together. I'd prefer they not get together just because it's fun to see people on shows like these with good working relationships instead of stereotypical doomed romance, but either way, they have good chemistry. (Plus, it's nice to see Alex get to interact with someone in a more cheerful and fun way than she does wit Kara or J'onn.)
* I was surprised they revealed the White Martian thing so fast and so easily. I mean, they were obviously not fooling anybody after Miss Martian's story about a kindly White Martian who refused a kill order, but it felt hamfisted.
* Always fun to see Dichen Lachman. She was a good casting choice for Roulette.
Also:
Until I started typing this, I hadn't thought about James.
Darnit. Until I read your post, I'd forgotten he was even on the show, in the fashion of Maxwell Lord. I also hope they surprise us, because blargh.
posted by mordax at 10:34 PM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Stuff:
* Snapper Carr was toned down to reasonable levels this time. His objections were abrasive rather than abusive. If they keep him right there, he'll be an acceptable Difficult Mentor archetype, (although I miss having a woman in the role).
* I'm not super familiar with Mon-El, since I'm more of an adaptation/wiki person than a comics reader, but it looks like they're changing more details up about him here. It was my understanding that Daxamites had all the same powers as Kryptonians, but a fatal allergy to common lead instead of Kryptonite - seems like they're powering him down, and I wonder if it's in preparation for skipping that. (A lead allergy seems pretty weaksauce, and if I were writing for this thing, I'd probably consider something like that.)
* I enjoyed Mon-El and Winn's night out. I'm not a big fan of the Daxam/Krypton culture stuff that's been introduced here, but Mon-El is working within that context, anyway.
* Lena Luthor is indeed totally up to something, and I'm still loving that dynamic, per my earlier comparison of it to back in the days of yore, when Smallville was actually any fun. I do think her desire to rehabilitate the family name is sincere, too - I hope that whatever she's got going on, it won't be a carbon copy of Lex Luthor's tropes. I hope she's doing something *interesting* and bad.
* I enjoy seeing Maggie and Alex work together. I'd prefer they not get together just because it's fun to see people on shows like these with good working relationships instead of stereotypical doomed romance, but either way, they have good chemistry. (Plus, it's nice to see Alex get to interact with someone in a more cheerful and fun way than she does wit Kara or J'onn.)
* I was surprised they revealed the White Martian thing so fast and so easily. I mean, they were obviously not fooling anybody after Miss Martian's story about a kindly White Martian who refused a kill order, but it felt hamfisted.
* Always fun to see Dichen Lachman. She was a good casting choice for Roulette.
Also:
Until I started typing this, I hadn't thought about James.
Darnit. Until I read your post, I'd forgotten he was even on the show, in the fashion of Maxwell Lord. I also hope they surprise us, because blargh.
posted by mordax at 10:34 PM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Vulture - Supergirl Recap: Martian Roulette
AV Club recap - It’s alien vs. alien in Supergirl’s fight club
posted by oh yeah! at 5:41 AM on November 1, 2016
AV Club recap - It’s alien vs. alien in Supergirl’s fight club
posted by oh yeah! at 5:41 AM on November 1, 2016
If there's a Kara and Mon-El relationship, I'm going to have to watch it with a bucket. I don't know why you'd kill an interesting relationship with James (friends to more! interesting existing relationship with her family! charming POC!) to match her with a Regular (Alien) White Dude. Their Krypton vs. Daxon conflict is not very interesting, much as Mon-El is not very interesting. Add to this the worries about James going all The Guardian on National City and ehhhhhh.
On the other hand, I'm so into the new ladies. Lena is going to be a problem in the best possible way. Maggie is a great counterpoint to everyone else in Alex's life. I'm here for their slow-burn burgeoning relationship. Alex, you beautiful, confused gay. I've been there, I feel you, woman. Keep trying to suss out why you're jealous that your work friend has a girlfriend. You'll get it eventually.
posted by komlord at 8:57 AM on November 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the other hand, I'm so into the new ladies. Lena is going to be a problem in the best possible way. Maggie is a great counterpoint to everyone else in Alex's life. I'm here for their slow-burn burgeoning relationship. Alex, you beautiful, confused gay. I've been there, I feel you, woman. Keep trying to suss out why you're jealous that your work friend has a girlfriend. You'll get it eventually.
posted by komlord at 8:57 AM on November 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
If there's a Kara and Mon-El relationship, I'm going to have to watch it with a bucket.
Completely understandable. I disagree with you about Jimmy: I like him, but I felt like the Kara/Jimmy/Lucy stuff really sucked the air out of the room last season. I'm on board about Mon-El though. I really hope they don't go there. I haven't liked *any* romantic relationships on this show, with the possible exception of cute off-screen references to Lois Lane.
I wish they'd just leave Kara single. You guys are probably right though, and they're going there.
(I feel like that's a general weakness on this kind of show - romantic shenanigans are how I have come to dislike Barry Allen over on The Flash, Daisy's one over on Agents of SHIELD last season had so little chemistry that it's still harming my willing suspension of disbelief a year later, etc.)
posted by mordax at 9:42 AM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Completely understandable. I disagree with you about Jimmy: I like him, but I felt like the Kara/Jimmy/Lucy stuff really sucked the air out of the room last season. I'm on board about Mon-El though. I really hope they don't go there. I haven't liked *any* romantic relationships on this show, with the possible exception of cute off-screen references to Lois Lane.
I wish they'd just leave Kara single. You guys are probably right though, and they're going there.
(I feel like that's a general weakness on this kind of show - romantic shenanigans are how I have come to dislike Barry Allen over on The Flash, Daisy's one over on Agents of SHIELD last season had so little chemistry that it's still harming my willing suspension of disbelief a year later, etc.)
posted by mordax at 9:42 AM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, wanted to clarify the 'blargh' about Jimmy - it really feels like they're flailing to find a spot for him on the show, and it's sort of painful to watch. The romance thread was just dropped cold, rather than eased out of. Like, 'nope, new season, new rules.' Then they had him as the new top man at CatCo, which... again, left field. I heard the same rumor sardonyx did, which is Yet Another WTF Plot Thread.
On the one hand, this feels par for the course for Jimmy Olsen - a quick perusal of superdickery suggests writers frequently have no idea what to do with him.
On the other hand... I kinda want them to know what to do with him here, because the character's a grown man on this show and superdickery is undignified.
posted by mordax at 1:09 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
On the one hand, this feels par for the course for Jimmy Olsen - a quick perusal of superdickery suggests writers frequently have no idea what to do with him.
On the other hand... I kinda want them to know what to do with him here, because the character's a grown man on this show and superdickery is undignified.
posted by mordax at 1:09 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
romantic shenanigans
mordax, I am in total agreement. And with Kara especially. Kara doesn't need a romantic partner, she needs a mentor. Which was why her scenes with Cat were always so good (whether as herself or Supergirl) and why I think the whole CatCo thing is floundering. Snapper is not wrong in his terribly-delivered-but-factually-correct criticisms of Kara's work, but it's the weakest part of the show right now.
I really want James to have A Thing To Do that isn't trying to be a superhero. I find the actor to be really charming and am sad that he's been sidelined in a super random way. Winn at the DEO has become a lot of fun.
posted by komlord at 2:42 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
mordax, I am in total agreement. And with Kara especially. Kara doesn't need a romantic partner, she needs a mentor. Which was why her scenes with Cat were always so good (whether as herself or Supergirl) and why I think the whole CatCo thing is floundering. Snapper is not wrong in his terribly-delivered-but-factually-correct criticisms of Kara's work, but it's the weakest part of the show right now.
I really want James to have A Thing To Do that isn't trying to be a superhero. I find the actor to be really charming and am sad that he's been sidelined in a super random way. Winn at the DEO has become a lot of fun.
posted by komlord at 2:42 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I really want James to have A Thing To Do that isn't trying to be a superhero. I find the actor to be really charming and am sad that he's been sidelined in a super random way. Winn at the DEO has become a lot of fun.
Yeah. I actually don't understand why he's not just working cases with them now - he knows about the DEO connection, he's got experience with super investigation, etc.
posted by mordax at 4:48 PM on November 1, 2016
Yeah. I actually don't understand why he's not just working cases with them now - he knows about the DEO connection, he's got experience with super investigation, etc.
posted by mordax at 4:48 PM on November 1, 2016
SUPERGIRL: Do you know Veronica Sinclair?
LENA: Roulette? Yah, we went to boarding school together.
How many fanfics do you think that exchange launched?
posted by pjsky at 6:24 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
LENA: Roulette? Yah, we went to boarding school together.
How many fanfics do you think that exchange launched?
posted by pjsky at 6:24 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I didn't like last week's thing at all where it seemed James was giving Snapper shit for rejecting Kara's story, and the stirring music implied the show thought we should cheer. Kara's story (the interview with Lena about the alien detection device) was awful, an incendiary piece of editorialization that had no place on a news page; and what's more, anyone who ever took an eleventh grade journalism class should have known it. So I was quite pleased that this week the show was squarely on the side of non-hacky reporting.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:30 AM on November 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:30 AM on November 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I personally wouldn't complain if they kept Ian Gomez, but changed Kara's job from reporter to employee at Dean and DeLuca.
posted by cottoncandybeard at 6:12 AM on November 2, 2016
posted by cottoncandybeard at 6:12 AM on November 2, 2016
They were so close to having some nuance, being like "They're in the fight club for a reason, you have to offer them something better for their survival". and then Kara swoops in and she's the exact opposite of nuance. Not that I was expecting a lot, but that was probably the weakest climax of the season so far?
- I'm really happy that J'on is getting a storyline with some depth. The scene where they had to fight each other had more pathos than the rest of the entire episode - and honestly I felt like the White Martian reveal super ruined it. Exactly like an "it was all a dream" reveal.
- Snapper Carr's grumpiness is more entertaining than Cat Grant's cattiness. I kind of wish they'd just adjusted Cat's character instead of writing her off, but I'm liking this setup a lot better.
- Winn has been setting off my gaydar all season but haha like there will ever be two queer main characters
- In case you were wondering Kara/Lena is defo a thing happening on the tumblr and every time they have scenes together I get a little bit gayer
- I'm wondering sincerely, because most of the CW shows run purely on fandom power, I'm sincerely wondering if the CW suggested/ordered that they provide more shipping material.
- All of this is making me think back to episode 1 when Kara is "coming out" as an alien and Winn is like "Oh you're gay! No, that's okay, this is perfect-" and thinking how that scene would be super different if he finished that line with "- that's awesome, I'm bisexual" and I'm angry at straight people again
- i need to chill
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:13 PM on November 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
- I'm really happy that J'on is getting a storyline with some depth. The scene where they had to fight each other had more pathos than the rest of the entire episode - and honestly I felt like the White Martian reveal super ruined it. Exactly like an "it was all a dream" reveal.
- Snapper Carr's grumpiness is more entertaining than Cat Grant's cattiness. I kind of wish they'd just adjusted Cat's character instead of writing her off, but I'm liking this setup a lot better.
- Winn has been setting off my gaydar all season but haha like there will ever be two queer main characters
- In case you were wondering Kara/Lena is defo a thing happening on the tumblr and every time they have scenes together I get a little bit gayer
- I'm wondering sincerely, because most of the CW shows run purely on fandom power, I'm sincerely wondering if the CW suggested/ordered that they provide more shipping material.
- All of this is making me think back to episode 1 when Kara is "coming out" as an alien and Winn is like "Oh you're gay! No, that's okay, this is perfect-" and thinking how that scene would be super different if he finished that line with "- that's awesome, I'm bisexual" and I'm angry at straight people again
- i need to chill
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:13 PM on November 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Actually also I can speak to this:
(although I'm sure it's breaking the hearts of shippers around the Internet that they're not a couple yet).
mostly people were tickled pink by the whole "undercover date" thing this episode. One person said "It's nice to have a queer relationship playing out like a normal relationship" - I mean, it's being foreshadowed and set up to make sense; they're not oversexualized; The Obstacle is not violent homophobia but rather the fact that she's already happily in a relationship - things like that.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:32 PM on November 2, 2016
(although I'm sure it's breaking the hearts of shippers around the Internet that they're not a couple yet).
mostly people were tickled pink by the whole "undercover date" thing this episode. One person said "It's nice to have a queer relationship playing out like a normal relationship" - I mean, it's being foreshadowed and set up to make sense; they're not oversexualized; The Obstacle is not violent homophobia but rather the fact that she's already happily in a relationship - things like that.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:32 PM on November 2, 2016
It's weird seeing the CW cooties rub off all over this show after last season on CBS. It's still Supergirl but... different.
posted by Justinian at 12:01 AM on November 3, 2016
posted by Justinian at 12:01 AM on November 3, 2016
probably the weakest climax of the season so far?
Agreed. A thing doesn't have to be completely lacking complexity and truth to be optimistic; I wonder if this episode's writers know that. Also, don't follow the comic books so closely. They are a very constrained form of art, written in a different time by people of that time. Their work will seem like a pale shadow of what a modern fully-produced, fully-acted show can and should be.
Writing is hard, though. I know it wasn't easy even achieving this; it's just that, with a little help or more training, it could and should be better.
posted by amtho at 6:01 AM on November 3, 2016
Agreed. A thing doesn't have to be completely lacking complexity and truth to be optimistic; I wonder if this episode's writers know that. Also, don't follow the comic books so closely. They are a very constrained form of art, written in a different time by people of that time. Their work will seem like a pale shadow of what a modern fully-produced, fully-acted show can and should be.
Writing is hard, though. I know it wasn't easy even achieving this; it's just that, with a little help or more training, it could and should be better.
posted by amtho at 6:01 AM on November 3, 2016
Actually, consider:
- the difference in writing quality here vs. previous shows
- the sudden dramatic improvement in writing at SNL makes
- the huge impact the writing makes on the experience of the shows
Now I'm wondering just how restricted the number of really good writers is, and how they are made and educated. Also, if you take the same writer in different circumstances (full-time vs. contract? Length of deadline? Number of collaborators? Other factors?), are the differences in writing quality a product of the writer, the writer's background, or management constraints?
posted by amtho at 6:05 AM on November 3, 2016
- the difference in writing quality here vs. previous shows
- the sudden dramatic improvement in writing at SNL makes
- the huge impact the writing makes on the experience of the shows
Now I'm wondering just how restricted the number of really good writers is, and how they are made and educated. Also, if you take the same writer in different circumstances (full-time vs. contract? Length of deadline? Number of collaborators? Other factors?), are the differences in writing quality a product of the writer, the writer's background, or management constraints?
posted by amtho at 6:05 AM on November 3, 2016
It really depends on your concept of what makes a "good writer." We certainly are in no danger of running out of new books. There are quite a few writers in this world.
Also, don't follow the comic books so closely. They are a very constrained form of art, written in a different time by people of that time. Their work will seem like a pale shadow of what a modern fully-produced, fully-acted show can and should be.
No offense, but all of this is off the mark. The show is not a faithful adaptation of any one comics story; in fact, the only episode I know of that adapts a particular story (Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' "For the Man Who Has Everything") completely botched it, reducing an epic with real pathos to a few boring scenes that all take place in one room. It's maybe the weakest episode of this series, but the comic it's based on is better than the entire series.
One of the reasons the comic is better is that the medium allows it to be. The relatively modest budget of the show didn't let the producers show us Krypton's cities, or introduce a dozen or so guest stars -- things that would have been necessary to adapt the comic properly. It's in fact live action that is constrained in contrast to what can be done more easily in a comic.
That story was created thirty years ago, but it's a relatively recent addition to the Superman canon, which dates back to 1938 and is still in progress. Yes, some of the stories were written a long time ago, but a great many are being written and drawn right now.
A well-drawn, well-written comic will never be a pale shadow of a TV show made on a shoestring. I suggest you google around for comics that show characters like Supergirl and Martian Manhunter in action, and then ask yourself seriously which medium makes them look more bloodless, less impressive.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:45 AM on November 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, don't follow the comic books so closely. They are a very constrained form of art, written in a different time by people of that time. Their work will seem like a pale shadow of what a modern fully-produced, fully-acted show can and should be.
No offense, but all of this is off the mark. The show is not a faithful adaptation of any one comics story; in fact, the only episode I know of that adapts a particular story (Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' "For the Man Who Has Everything") completely botched it, reducing an epic with real pathos to a few boring scenes that all take place in one room. It's maybe the weakest episode of this series, but the comic it's based on is better than the entire series.
One of the reasons the comic is better is that the medium allows it to be. The relatively modest budget of the show didn't let the producers show us Krypton's cities, or introduce a dozen or so guest stars -- things that would have been necessary to adapt the comic properly. It's in fact live action that is constrained in contrast to what can be done more easily in a comic.
That story was created thirty years ago, but it's a relatively recent addition to the Superman canon, which dates back to 1938 and is still in progress. Yes, some of the stories were written a long time ago, but a great many are being written and drawn right now.
A well-drawn, well-written comic will never be a pale shadow of a TV show made on a shoestring. I suggest you google around for comics that show characters like Supergirl and Martian Manhunter in action, and then ask yourself seriously which medium makes them look more bloodless, less impressive.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:45 AM on November 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now I'm wondering just how restricted the number of really good writers is, and how they are made and educated. Also, if you take the same writer in different circumstances (full-time vs. contract? Length of deadline? Number of collaborators? Other factors?), are the differences in writing quality a product of the writer, the writer's background, or management constraints?
Most of it is honestly the particular priorities of the show - what is the show trying to do? IMO the DC CW shows have a lot of conflicting goals, not least of which is trying to emulate - simultaneously - the big-budget screenwriting style that de-emphasizes character, and the Golden Age style comics dialogue.
When you say "management constraints", you're probably thinking of the studio or the network, but before that point, all the writers will adapt themselves to the voice of their showrunner, because that's just the job. The first answer to any question is going to be "Because the showrunner wanted it that way." After that it's likely "the writers, showrunner included, don't prioritize what you in particular consider good writing". "Writers are dumb" is honestly likely the last answer.
( I mean there's probably one dumb writer on every show but it's the job of everyone else to make up for them)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:20 AM on November 3, 2016
Most of it is honestly the particular priorities of the show - what is the show trying to do? IMO the DC CW shows have a lot of conflicting goals, not least of which is trying to emulate - simultaneously - the big-budget screenwriting style that de-emphasizes character, and the Golden Age style comics dialogue.
When you say "management constraints", you're probably thinking of the studio or the network, but before that point, all the writers will adapt themselves to the voice of their showrunner, because that's just the job. The first answer to any question is going to be "Because the showrunner wanted it that way." After that it's likely "the writers, showrunner included, don't prioritize what you in particular consider good writing". "Writers are dumb" is honestly likely the last answer.
( I mean there's probably one dumb writer on every show but it's the job of everyone else to make up for them)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:20 AM on November 3, 2016
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
Until I started typing this, I hadn't thought about James. Then I realized he wasn't in this episode at all and I didn't miss him in the least. Unfortunately, what I've read about his character development means he'll be around in a bigger, more annoying capacity, and I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy seeing it. Oh well, maybe the writers will surprise me.
Maggie has proven to be a good addition to the show. Personally I don't care if they put her together with Alex in a romantic way or not (although I'm sure it's breaking the hearts of shippers around the Internet that they're not a couple yet). It's just nice to see two equally strong and competent women professionals portrayed without rivalry or bitchiness. I'm all for that.
The budding romance between Mon-El and Kara seems to be working just fine. At least it's not feeling too forced. I'm willing to go along for the ride, at least for the time being. And I'm willing to wait for the payoff of the slow build of Lena suckering Kara into feeling totally friendly. We all know she's going to blindside Supergirl at some point and become a major villain, so I just hope the producing teams allows Kara to be deeply hurt and wounded when that happens and not allow her to shrug off the pain and betrayal too easily. Yes, this is a happy, positive, upbeat show, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see Kara suffer a little bit, or at least react in a way that makes Pollyanna look like Eeyore.
posted by sardonyx at 8:48 PM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]