Legends of Tomorrow: Lucha de Apuestas
April 1, 2019 6:29 PM - Season 4, Episode 9 - Subscribe
When the Legends hear that Mona has let a fugitive go, they must head to 1961 Mexico City to clean up her mess. Meanwhile, Nate and Zari go on a recon mission to find out what Hank might be hiding from everyone.
This felt like such a let-down of an episode, and not the way to kick off this new part of the season. Yes, I'll give you Mick as relationship counselor is great but I don't buy ConJob being into historic Mexican wrestling. It just feels too much like a plot device.
I was hoping with the Kaupe being shunted off (wasn't expecting him to be killed), that we'd have smaller doses of Mona in the future. I don't mind her as a supporting character (like in the scene where she was locked up in the Time Bureau jail with Nora Darhk and Ava), but I don't want to see her become a focal point of the show. I'd much rather explore some of the existing characters and get to know them better (we're still learngin what is making Charlie tick and now we've got this unexpected potential relationship between Zari and Nate, and I still want to see more character development for Rory--maybe how he reacts to being a famous author, or how he rekindles his bromance with Haircut, as that seems to have fallen to the wayside a bit).
I'm not surprised to see the breakup between Ava and Sara. It's a relationship on the CW network. There are bound to be breakups and makeups and all kinds of dramatic, romantic plot twists. If anything I liked that maturity of the argument. They weren't fighting about something stupid and they weren't unfaithful. They just had very different ideas of what being a supportive partner means and of how to balance a romantic relationship with the complicated demands of a working relationship. That doesn't mean I'm happy to see them apart, but I've got enough faith that their story will be worth watching whether they get back together or not.
That dance, however, was terrible. I know these typical tango scenes are usually done between fighting or hostile partners, but usually movies and TV shows are able to better incorporate the dance elements into the fighting. This was just a bunch of stomping around with no musicality whatsoever. (Unless the point was that Sara and Ava are terrible dancers, then well done.)
posted by sardonyx at 2:25 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was hoping with the Kaupe being shunted off (wasn't expecting him to be killed), that we'd have smaller doses of Mona in the future. I don't mind her as a supporting character (like in the scene where she was locked up in the Time Bureau jail with Nora Darhk and Ava), but I don't want to see her become a focal point of the show. I'd much rather explore some of the existing characters and get to know them better (we're still learngin what is making Charlie tick and now we've got this unexpected potential relationship between Zari and Nate, and I still want to see more character development for Rory--maybe how he reacts to being a famous author, or how he rekindles his bromance with Haircut, as that seems to have fallen to the wayside a bit).
I'm not surprised to see the breakup between Ava and Sara. It's a relationship on the CW network. There are bound to be breakups and makeups and all kinds of dramatic, romantic plot twists. If anything I liked that maturity of the argument. They weren't fighting about something stupid and they weren't unfaithful. They just had very different ideas of what being a supportive partner means and of how to balance a romantic relationship with the complicated demands of a working relationship. That doesn't mean I'm happy to see them apart, but I've got enough faith that their story will be worth watching whether they get back together or not.
That dance, however, was terrible. I know these typical tango scenes are usually done between fighting or hostile partners, but usually movies and TV shows are able to better incorporate the dance elements into the fighting. This was just a bunch of stomping around with no musicality whatsoever. (Unless the point was that Sara and Ava are terrible dancers, then well done.)
posted by sardonyx at 2:25 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
Aw, I liked the tango. If nothing else, it's going to make for some nice gifsets & fanvids.
I can see everyone's points about the negatives of the episode, but none of that really registered to me while I was watching it, I just got swept up in the goofiness of it all as usual. I mean, Gary's frantic "Where's my nipple?!" alone made the episode for me.
posted by oh yeah! at 4:23 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I can see everyone's points about the negatives of the episode, but none of that really registered to me while I was watching it, I just got swept up in the goofiness of it all as usual. I mean, Gary's frantic "Where's my nipple?!" alone made the episode for me.
posted by oh yeah! at 4:23 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I thought the point of the bad tango was to highlight how badly they were doing as a couple - like, physical dissonance to highlight emotional disconnection? Not sure though, could've just been bad choreographing.
Gary's frantic "Where's my nipple?!" alone made the episode for me.
Hah. Fair. My favorite Gary line was probably, "I don't know why anything is!"
posted by mordax at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
Gary's frantic "Where's my nipple?!" alone made the episode for me.
Hah. Fair. My favorite Gary line was probably, "I don't know why anything is!"
posted by mordax at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I like that interpretation of bad relationship patch equals bad tango. I think it works in the context of the narrative.
posted by sardonyx at 7:22 PM on April 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 7:22 PM on April 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
I didn't think it was a letdown either. I thought it was a good setup for the back half of the season.
After reading that interview I'm glad to know the writers are being careful with these relationships, especially this queer one. It would've been out of character for Ava to just forgive Sarah, who seems to want to her Legends cake and Ava as the cherry on top, and isn't considering the weight on Ava's shoulders, even if Ava is incorrect about her role. She's always been one to focus on her duties, and them clashing was always going to happen. But it sounds like they'll resolve that by the end of the season. Also I didn't notice if the tango was bad or good, I was too focused on their conversation.
I liked all the luchador stuff. It kept the energy of the show running high and I enjoyed all the fights there. The crew rallying "the people" to stay for the fight was great stuff.
I'm seeing Ramona Young everywhere between this and Santa Clarita Diet, and it's great!
posted by numaner at 1:33 PM on April 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
After reading that interview I'm glad to know the writers are being careful with these relationships, especially this queer one. It would've been out of character for Ava to just forgive Sarah, who seems to want to her Legends cake and Ava as the cherry on top, and isn't considering the weight on Ava's shoulders, even if Ava is incorrect about her role. She's always been one to focus on her duties, and them clashing was always going to happen. But it sounds like they'll resolve that by the end of the season. Also I didn't notice if the tango was bad or good, I was too focused on their conversation.
I liked all the luchador stuff. It kept the energy of the show running high and I enjoyed all the fights there. The crew rallying "the people" to stay for the fight was great stuff.
I'm seeing Ramona Young everywhere between this and Santa Clarita Diet, and it's great!
posted by numaner at 1:33 PM on April 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
I didn't find it a letdown overall, but the Sara/Ava fight bothered me.
I know it's supposed to be about not being appropriately supportive of your partner, but in essence Ava's point was "You didn't support me making this bad decision [which you actually know has horrible historic consequences]."It would be like a partner being angry that you didn't support them taking a questionable tax deduction when you knew it constituted fraud.
And then Ava revealed she's okay with experimentation on the aliens/magickal creatures.
I feel like the writers intended the takeaway to be that the issue is about a failure to support a partner, but the way it's written it's really about discovering a fundamental values mismatch. One that should legitimately be a dealbreaker.
I don't think they should get back together, especially if it's due to Sara trying to make up for not being supportive. For a reconciliation to work it would require Ava to do some major soul-searching and come around to a more humane way of thinking, but I don't think that's what the writers intended to set up. I'm afraid Ava's questionable attitude is going to get swept under the rug.
It's potentially a pretty major disappointment if they don't take the hard road of working through the real issues, with the real potentially of not getting them back together.
I wish they had left out the "You didn't support my shitty decision-making" angle, it just felt like a lazy way to drive them apart when the underlying issue is much more interesting and should have been the main focus.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 2:49 PM on April 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
I know it's supposed to be about not being appropriately supportive of your partner, but in essence Ava's point was "You didn't support me making this bad decision [which you actually know has horrible historic consequences]."It would be like a partner being angry that you didn't support them taking a questionable tax deduction when you knew it constituted fraud.
And then Ava revealed she's okay with experimentation on the aliens/magickal creatures.
I feel like the writers intended the takeaway to be that the issue is about a failure to support a partner, but the way it's written it's really about discovering a fundamental values mismatch. One that should legitimately be a dealbreaker.
I don't think they should get back together, especially if it's due to Sara trying to make up for not being supportive. For a reconciliation to work it would require Ava to do some major soul-searching and come around to a more humane way of thinking, but I don't think that's what the writers intended to set up. I'm afraid Ava's questionable attitude is going to get swept under the rug.
It's potentially a pretty major disappointment if they don't take the hard road of working through the real issues, with the real potentially of not getting them back together.
I wish they had left out the "You didn't support my shitty decision-making" angle, it just felt like a lazy way to drive them apart when the underlying issue is much more interesting and should have been the main focus.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 2:49 PM on April 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Shyeah...I know they were going for dramatic (probably temporary) breakup but that made Ava sound pretty shitty.
Mona and the Kaupe sold the absolute shit out of their interspecies love, I gotta say.
Also enjoyed Sara whacking the cig out of Constantine's hand.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:04 PM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Mona and the Kaupe sold the absolute shit out of their interspecies love, I gotta say.
Also enjoyed Sara whacking the cig out of Constantine's hand.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:04 PM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh, the cig thing is/has been/will be a running gag on the show. Comics Constantine is a hardcore smoker, to the point where his resulting fatal lung cancer fueled a major definitive story arc.
But onscreen smoking is kind of a no-go nowadays.
So just like Captain Sara's 'OK People, saddle up, we're headed to _____' is a thing every episode, John readying a cigarette and someone taking it away from him before he can light up is something you're going to see all the time. It's cute.
posted by bartleby at 8:23 PM on April 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
But onscreen smoking is kind of a no-go nowadays.
So just like Captain Sara's 'OK People, saddle up, we're headed to _____' is a thing every episode, John readying a cigarette and someone taking it away from him before he can light up is something you're going to see all the time. It's cute.
posted by bartleby at 8:23 PM on April 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
I love how relentlessly WASPy Nate's family/storyline/culture is. Someone makes a crack about them never serving enough food EVERY TIME his family comes up hahaha And the dad being a high level exec who watches televised golf and is on Nate's case about having an impractical college degree (despite the obvious wads of family money), and Nate and his dad's most explicit "argument" being over who is picking up the restaurant check, and the family spending all their time together at very dry "events" like the benefit or holiday parties, etc etc etc. It all just cracks me up. I like how the show isn't making fun of it exactly, but is treating it as this exotic culture.
Also, I'm rewatching the season, and Nate has really grown on me. He's just so refreshingly unpretentious, not macho at all. It took me a long time to understand what was up between him and his dad, and I still don't really get it (I guess Nate's expectation is originally that he and his dad should be friends, and he eventually learns that being friends is not what a good father/son relationship is about?)...but this time around, I'm also struck by what a delicate balance the show had to strike with the Nate/Hank storyline, and honestly, I think that they did a good job. I mean, they couldn't make Nate and Hank's relationship really terrible or have one of them be just way too obnoxious, because then nobody would want to see them reconcile. Like, nobody wants Mick or Constantine reconcile with their fathers, lol. But the relationship had to be frustrating enough for Nate for a reconciliation to even be necessary.
I do wish we could find out more about some of the other characters, though -- especially Charlie. She's hundreds of years old and immortal, yet also a punk? Hahaha I love that. What did it even mean to be a punk in 1300?
posted by rue72 at 7:50 PM on June 1, 2019
Also, I'm rewatching the season, and Nate has really grown on me. He's just so refreshingly unpretentious, not macho at all. It took me a long time to understand what was up between him and his dad, and I still don't really get it (I guess Nate's expectation is originally that he and his dad should be friends, and he eventually learns that being friends is not what a good father/son relationship is about?)...but this time around, I'm also struck by what a delicate balance the show had to strike with the Nate/Hank storyline, and honestly, I think that they did a good job. I mean, they couldn't make Nate and Hank's relationship really terrible or have one of them be just way too obnoxious, because then nobody would want to see them reconcile. Like, nobody wants Mick or Constantine reconcile with their fathers, lol. But the relationship had to be frustrating enough for Nate for a reconciliation to even be necessary.
I do wish we could find out more about some of the other characters, though -- especially Charlie. She's hundreds of years old and immortal, yet also a punk? Hahaha I love that. What did it even mean to be a punk in 1300?
posted by rue72 at 7:50 PM on June 1, 2019
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Other stuff:
* Luchadors! Hooray!
* Inventing a card game to teach the principles of safe time travel has to be Peak Ray Palmer, CW-edition.
* Was not expecting Mona to be the new Kaupe.
* Mick offering romantic wisdom based on his cheesy novels was amazing.
posted by mordax at 11:27 PM on April 1, 2019 [3 favorites]