Star Trek: Discovery: People of Earth
October 29, 2020 10:10 AM - Season 3, Episode 3 - Subscribe
The ship goes to Earth to see what the Federation has been up to, but someone's pulled up the welcome mat.
Memory Alpha realized that everyone they've ever known died centuries ago:
- This is the first episode or film in the franchise to use a six-digit stardate, not including the decimal. The first three digits (865) are more-or-less consistent with the stardate system used throughout the run of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, and Star Trek: Lower Decks.
- According to Captain Ndoye, United Earth is no longer a part of the United Federation of Planets. They became fully self-sufficient and formed their own Defense Force.
- Following The Burn, Federation Headquarters and Starfleet were moved from Earth a century ago.
- Saru is officially promoted to captain of the USS Discovery.
- Paul Stamets confirms to Adira that the Discovery and her crew officially left from the year 2258. This means that part of Season 2 takes place at the same time as Star Trek (2009).
- Adira, who is a Human with a Trill symbiotic relationship, is introduced in this episode, which was directed by Jonathan Frakes. In "The Host", the episode which introduced the Trill, Frakes played a Human who had a temporary Trill symbiont.
Poster's Log:
The focus of the episode is obvious and stated pretty forthrightly: it's all about what has changed for a) Burnham and b) Earth. The former is more immediately obvious; we knew that there would be the "time passes, hair grows out" scene, and it's pretty logical that, given that her main ally is a courier, that she'd become one too. She's also had to deal with the possibility/likelihood that the ship didn't make it. This part is handled well; yes, there's the tearful reunion, but there's still some distance. Burnham having knowledge of the 32nd century and probably a few contacts beyond Book is good, but Georgiou's canny observation is spot-on: this is probably the first time in at least several years (Burnham's subjective time) that she hasn't been under the aegis of Starfleet and the Federation--even when she was in prison, she still was--and I'm hoping that they don't drop that too quickly. (Especially since I'm pretty sure that we're going to see Book, and Queen Grudge, again.) I'm also curious to see if/when Discovery gets retrofitted with more up-to-date tech, perhaps courtesy of Adira. (At least we know that this century doesn't seem to have the spore drive, which I'm more certain is going to end up being called the dash drive, since Stamets calls out how cumbersome "displacement-activated spore hub drive" is to say.)
As for Earth closing its borders and treating all outsiders suspiciously, including intrusive inspections, well, any resemblance to current institutions or policies is probably not coincidental; the resolution of the situation with Wen seems to be spot-on with the developing theme of the reaffirmation of the Federation's principles in this season.
Poster's Log, supplemental: DetmerWatch continues; her hesitancy at the controls is still pretty obvious. And I'd count the thing with Wen's helmet as a literal head fake. Finally, there's the twin symbols of the memorial wall and the tree that was there and alive when the crew went through the Academy; both are really effective.
io9: On Star Trek: Discovery, You Really Can't Go Home Again
Memory Alpha realized that everyone they've ever known died centuries ago:
- This is the first episode or film in the franchise to use a six-digit stardate, not including the decimal. The first three digits (865) are more-or-less consistent with the stardate system used throughout the run of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, and Star Trek: Lower Decks.
- According to Captain Ndoye, United Earth is no longer a part of the United Federation of Planets. They became fully self-sufficient and formed their own Defense Force.
- Following The Burn, Federation Headquarters and Starfleet were moved from Earth a century ago.
- Saru is officially promoted to captain of the USS Discovery.
- Paul Stamets confirms to Adira that the Discovery and her crew officially left from the year 2258. This means that part of Season 2 takes place at the same time as Star Trek (2009).
- Adira, who is a Human with a Trill symbiotic relationship, is introduced in this episode, which was directed by Jonathan Frakes. In "The Host", the episode which introduced the Trill, Frakes played a Human who had a temporary Trill symbiont.
Poster's Log:
The focus of the episode is obvious and stated pretty forthrightly: it's all about what has changed for a) Burnham and b) Earth. The former is more immediately obvious; we knew that there would be the "time passes, hair grows out" scene, and it's pretty logical that, given that her main ally is a courier, that she'd become one too. She's also had to deal with the possibility/likelihood that the ship didn't make it. This part is handled well; yes, there's the tearful reunion, but there's still some distance. Burnham having knowledge of the 32nd century and probably a few contacts beyond Book is good, but Georgiou's canny observation is spot-on: this is probably the first time in at least several years (Burnham's subjective time) that she hasn't been under the aegis of Starfleet and the Federation--even when she was in prison, she still was--and I'm hoping that they don't drop that too quickly. (Especially since I'm pretty sure that we're going to see Book, and Queen Grudge, again.) I'm also curious to see if/when Discovery gets retrofitted with more up-to-date tech, perhaps courtesy of Adira. (At least we know that this century doesn't seem to have the spore drive, which I'm more certain is going to end up being called the dash drive, since Stamets calls out how cumbersome "displacement-activated spore hub drive" is to say.)
As for Earth closing its borders and treating all outsiders suspiciously, including intrusive inspections, well, any resemblance to current institutions or policies is probably not coincidental; the resolution of the situation with Wen seems to be spot-on with the developing theme of the reaffirmation of the Federation's principles in this season.
Poster's Log, supplemental: DetmerWatch continues; her hesitancy at the controls is still pretty obvious. And I'd count the thing with Wen's helmet as a literal head fake. Finally, there's the twin symbols of the memorial wall and the tree that was there and alive when the crew went through the Academy; both are really effective.
io9: On Star Trek: Discovery, You Really Can't Go Home Again
Good question! I'd make the point that Trills in general aren't symbiont carriers, because there aren't that many of them, and that, going by the TNG ep "The Host", wasn't common knowledge a century later.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:04 AM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:04 AM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Good ep. Earth having left the Federation is a surprising and interesting development. The Scooby Doo unmasking was corny, but in a welcome way.
Doug Jones is running circles around the rest of the cast acting-wise, I think. The actors are let down by the script an awful lot. It's hard to figure out how to read such overly melodramatic dialogue, and Jones is the one who always manages to make perfect choices in his delivery. I never cringe when Saru speaks.
posted by painquale at 11:42 AM on October 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
Doug Jones is running circles around the rest of the cast acting-wise, I think. The actors are let down by the script an awful lot. It's hard to figure out how to read such overly melodramatic dialogue, and Jones is the one who always manages to make perfect choices in his delivery. I never cringe when Saru speaks.
posted by painquale at 11:42 AM on October 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
I'm happy to see Sarah Mitich back after leaving the Airiam role at the end of Season 1.
On the other hand, the quirky "this part is supposed to be funny" music that heralded the talk between Stamets and Adira was kind of annoying.
I'd like to know where Wen got that vintage Black Manta helmet from.
Doug Jones is running circles around the rest of the cast acting-wise
The way he moves when he walks is *such* a perfect choice.
posted by hanov3r at 1:30 PM on October 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
On the other hand, the quirky "this part is supposed to be funny" music that heralded the talk between Stamets and Adira was kind of annoying.
I'd like to know where Wen got that vintage Black Manta helmet from.
Doug Jones is running circles around the rest of the cast acting-wise
The way he moves when he walks is *such* a perfect choice.
posted by hanov3r at 1:30 PM on October 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty sure this episode also makes history for the TV side of the franchise as the first time an alien is the captain of the "protagonist" starship (Spock was captain of the Enterprise at the beginning of Wrath of Khan, even though it was just a training mission). And I'll add to the "yay Saru" chorus; by this point he's my favorite character on the show.
The Donatu system has some history behind it. The fact that Burnham and Book were apparently couriering around there may mean that we get some Future-Klingons in this season. (Wonder what THEIR foreheads are gonna look like.)
I've been wondering if the Burn could have been a side effect of the spore drive, like maybe the Discovery's use of it pre-time-jump caused a Resonating Whatever Wave that eventually rendered all dilithium inert for some reason…and took hundreds of years to do it. Implausible, probably, although the Adira scene seems to suggest that the spore drive is going to be important this season.
Kind of ballsy to choose the name "Wen" in a time-travel themed season :p
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:16 PM on October 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
The Donatu system has some history behind it. The fact that Burnham and Book were apparently couriering around there may mean that we get some Future-Klingons in this season. (Wonder what THEIR foreheads are gonna look like.)
I've been wondering if the Burn could have been a side effect of the spore drive, like maybe the Discovery's use of it pre-time-jump caused a Resonating Whatever Wave that eventually rendered all dilithium inert for some reason…and took hundreds of years to do it. Implausible, probably, although the Adira scene seems to suggest that the spore drive is going to be important this season.
Kind of ballsy to choose the name "Wen" in a time-travel themed season :p
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:16 PM on October 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
A late addition to the post: Meet Star Trek: Discovery's Blu del Barrio from GLAAD's website, on being non-binary, playing a NB character, and why Adira hasn't come out to the crew yet. (Pronouns: they/them.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:20 PM on October 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:20 PM on October 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think Saru's walk is only partly a choice, given that Doug has to walk around in disco platform boots with the heels sawn off. Some of that swing is to keep from toppling over, no?
Detmer has the Yips.
Stuff I might have forgotten about or missed from earlier seasons:
So none of Ariam's friends sit with Lt. Nilsson at lunch and think 'you look really familiar..'
Has Discovery never had a shuttle bay door? They've just been flying around goatse style all this time?
The wall of badges - are those the crew that didn't come on the one way trip? Or did all the injured from last episode die? Or was the cadet badge that Tilly was fingering her own old one; and that's a thing, that when people get promoted they stick their old insignia on the wall by the emergency environmental suits?
Speaking of suits, those EDF only the front half of a pseudo Sam Browne belt uniforms are super dumb. I was upset.
But then I still get distracted trying to think what anyone keeps in those side-of-the-thigh pockets in Discovery's cheeki-breeki Space Gopnik tracksuits.
Lovely bit of prop work in Capt. Saru's ready room, demolishing Lorca's desk in private and reassembling the telescope from the Shenzou together with Burnham.
Plot hole? for this season's Fractured, Isolated Galaxy gimmick that I'm letting slide for the moment but will eventually need to see addressed: All the the interstellar travel is gone, fine. But FTL subspace communications still exist, right? In a hundred years, no one has picked up a phone? Anywhere? Nobody in the Alpha or Beta quadrants has a formerly-aligned-world Pen Pal?
BTW, United Earth, your defense perimeter doesn't even extend as far as Jupiter? Saturn is 'outside scanning range'? ...tsk tsk, SMH. That's not even isolationism, that's just sad.
Tilly at Starfleet Academy: I used to study under that tree!
Owosekun and others: Me too!
bartleby at home: I watched Ray Walston plant that tree!
posted by bartleby at 3:42 PM on October 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
Detmer has the Yips.
Stuff I might have forgotten about or missed from earlier seasons:
So none of Ariam's friends sit with Lt. Nilsson at lunch and think 'you look really familiar..'
Has Discovery never had a shuttle bay door? They've just been flying around goatse style all this time?
The wall of badges - are those the crew that didn't come on the one way trip? Or did all the injured from last episode die? Or was the cadet badge that Tilly was fingering her own old one; and that's a thing, that when people get promoted they stick their old insignia on the wall by the emergency environmental suits?
Speaking of suits, those EDF only the front half of a pseudo Sam Browne belt uniforms are super dumb. I was upset.
But then I still get distracted trying to think what anyone keeps in those side-of-the-thigh pockets in Discovery's cheeki-breeki Space Gopnik tracksuits.
Lovely bit of prop work in Capt. Saru's ready room, demolishing Lorca's desk in private and reassembling the telescope from the Shenzou together with Burnham.
Plot hole? for this season's Fractured, Isolated Galaxy gimmick that I'm letting slide for the moment but will eventually need to see addressed: All the the interstellar travel is gone, fine. But FTL subspace communications still exist, right? In a hundred years, no one has picked up a phone? Anywhere? Nobody in the Alpha or Beta quadrants has a formerly-aligned-world Pen Pal?
BTW, United Earth, your defense perimeter doesn't even extend as far as Jupiter? Saturn is 'outside scanning range'? ...tsk tsk, SMH. That's not even isolationism, that's just sad.
Tilly at Starfleet Academy: I used to study under that tree!
Owosekun and others: Me too!
bartleby at home: I watched Ray Walston plant that tree!
posted by bartleby at 3:42 PM on October 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
For any non-DS9 viewers, here's a quick three minutes of the last time we met an emergency-joined Trill symbiote.
posted by bartleby at 4:51 PM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bartleby at 4:51 PM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
But FTL subspace communications still exist, right? In a hundred years, no one has picked up a phone? Anywhere?
In ep 1 mentioned some handwavy thing about subspace relays being offline, limiting the range of transmissions.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:00 PM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
In ep 1 mentioned some handwavy thing about subspace relays being offline, limiting the range of transmissions.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:00 PM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I got such a kick out of seeing Christopher Heyerdahl (formerly of Stargate Atlantis and Hell on Wheels ) appear in this episode 👍
posted by Roger Pittman at 5:02 PM on October 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Roger Pittman at 5:02 PM on October 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
Christopher Heyerdahl is a grade A casting choice, joining Jake Weber last episode.
I kind of like how the Earth and Wen conflict were treated essentially like another other A plot conflict between two alien groups. Which they pretty much are to the temponaughts from the past.
Starting to get the feeling that I respect Frakes as a director. At least on a Trek property.
I see that the Golden Gate Bridge still has a solar panel roof. While, yes, joshua trees are over 1,000 years old (and they're puny beside redwoods), trees have hard physical limits to how big they can grow, before they start dying/ extremities keep dying back. It's mostly a capillary action v. gravity and a surface area/ volume thing.
The wall of badges
Yeah, that was kind of weird. It looked like there were badges from different eras. Had Burnham been collecting old Starfleet badges/ dog tags, and donated them to the ship?
We know she collects old V'draysh memorabilia like that... sonic screwdriver(?) from NCC-4774.
posted by porpoise at 7:40 PM on October 29, 2020
I kind of like how the Earth and Wen conflict were treated essentially like another other A plot conflict between two alien groups. Which they pretty much are to the temponaughts from the past.
Starting to get the feeling that I respect Frakes as a director. At least on a Trek property.
I see that the Golden Gate Bridge still has a solar panel roof. While, yes, joshua trees are over 1,000 years old (and they're puny beside redwoods), trees have hard physical limits to how big they can grow, before they start dying/ extremities keep dying back. It's mostly a capillary action v. gravity and a surface area/ volume thing.
The wall of badges
Yeah, that was kind of weird. It looked like there were badges from different eras. Had Burnham been collecting old Starfleet badges/ dog tags, and donated them to the ship?
We know she collects old V'draysh memorabilia like that... sonic screwdriver(?) from NCC-4774.
posted by porpoise at 7:40 PM on October 29, 2020
Great Trek. Goofy looking space guys, and the solution is diplomacy.
I just wish Saru had gotten the chance to sit in his ready room at the end and make a corny speech about how the real force field is the fear in our hearts.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:12 PM on October 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
I just wish Saru had gotten the chance to sit in his ready room at the end and make a corny speech about how the real force field is the fear in our hearts.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:12 PM on October 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
I spent quite some time trying to figure out what possible tree that could be, planted where it is, to have survived 900 years. Not a redwood: it's too dry right there, and it's the wrong shape. And I don't think California Live Oaks get that big. Bit of a conundrum.
I found it suspicious how quickly Stamets was willing to tell Adira what the deal was with the spore drive: isn't it a hugeass secret? Wouldn't the knowledge of the drive change the whole techno-political situation in the galaxy?
But it was lovely to see Christopher Heyerdahl again!
posted by suelac at 10:06 PM on October 29, 2020
I found it suspicious how quickly Stamets was willing to tell Adira what the deal was with the spore drive: isn't it a hugeass secret? Wouldn't the knowledge of the drive change the whole techno-political situation in the galaxy?
But it was lovely to see Christopher Heyerdahl again!
posted by suelac at 10:06 PM on October 29, 2020
The tree was super dumb.
I sympathized with Stamets. He's suffered and he'd invested in the tech; he finally gets to talk about it with someone who he thinks is at least as smart than he is, and isn't a total jerk.
And they're just as curious about the tech, too!
Of course, Stamets would spill it to a centuries-oldtrill soul. Someone who "understands."
posted by porpoise at 10:50 PM on October 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
I sympathized with Stamets. He's suffered and he'd invested in the tech; he finally gets to talk about it with someone who he thinks is at least as smart than he is, and isn't a total jerk.
And they're just as curious about the tech, too!
Of course, Stamets would spill it to a centuries-old
posted by porpoise at 10:50 PM on October 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
My take was Stamets intuitively trusted Adira because 1) YAY! Another genius tech nerd (who isn't aggravating like Reno) with which to have long, tech nerd conversations, and b) Stamets quickly clued in to Adira being LGBTIQ. Probably some shared character background there too (deep diving into technerditry as LGBTIQ youngsters).
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:05 AM on October 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:05 AM on October 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
Had Burnham been collecting old Starfleet badges/ dog tags, and donated them to the ship?
None of the badges looked particularly Berman-era, IIRC. I'm wondering if they are all Tilly's from previous assignments; pretty sure that was the moment right before she started talking about the people they left behind in the 23rd century.
I spent quite some time trying to figure out what possible tree that could be, planted where it is, to have survived 900 years. Not a redwood: it's too dry right there, and it's the wrong shape. And I don't think California Live Oaks get that big. Bit of a conundrum.
You GUYYYS, it's Starfleet Freakin' Academy. It was doubtlessly genetically-augmented by some budding Ship's Arborist (see what I did there?).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:28 AM on October 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
None of the badges looked particularly Berman-era, IIRC. I'm wondering if they are all Tilly's from previous assignments; pretty sure that was the moment right before she started talking about the people they left behind in the 23rd century.
I spent quite some time trying to figure out what possible tree that could be, planted where it is, to have survived 900 years. Not a redwood: it's too dry right there, and it's the wrong shape. And I don't think California Live Oaks get that big. Bit of a conundrum.
You GUYYYS, it's Starfleet Freakin' Academy. It was doubtlessly genetically-augmented by some budding Ship's Arborist (see what I did there?).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:28 AM on October 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
Mrs. Fedora kept commenting on how there is no WAY it was only one year. Her hair is too long and she and Book have way too many Remember the Times together.
I understand where Michael is coming from, though. She’s sampled that sweet, sweet work-from-home forbidden fruit and can never go back to working in an office again.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:31 AM on October 30, 2020 [22 favorites]
I understand where Michael is coming from, though. She’s sampled that sweet, sweet work-from-home forbidden fruit and can never go back to working in an office again.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:31 AM on October 30, 2020 [22 favorites]
They definitely overclocked that tree with some kind of futureproof alien tree science.
posted by confluency at 3:54 AM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by confluency at 3:54 AM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think that a lot of the seemingly inconsistent limitations we see in the future tech can be explained in-universe by the dilithium shortage. They have super-advanced tech, but running it at full power is extremely costly. So... weapons are tasers by default unless you mash the button repeatedly, and long-range communications may be so expensive to power even briefly that it's completely unfeasible, and therefore existing systems have lapsed into disrepair and no new ones have been developed.
posted by confluency at 3:59 AM on October 30, 2020
posted by confluency at 3:59 AM on October 30, 2020
I forgot to mention two things that stuck out for me in this one:
I liked the fact that Saru tried and failed to bullshit his way through explaining why Discovery wasn't exploded by the Burn.
I dislike the fact that the term "Number One" for a first officer is being thrown around so freely, but I guess it's canon now. Maybe it was just a short-lived linguistic trend in the 23rd century, and Picard uses it because he's of a historical bent.
I think that a lot of the seemingly inconsistent limitations we see in the future tech can be explained in-universe by the dilithium shortage.
This seems reasonable to me. One of the things this in-universe reference book taught me is that Trek's matter/antimatter generators such as warp cores (which rely on dilithium to regulate the energy release) produce freakin' crazy amounts of energy; almost everything on a Galaxy-class ship is powered by the warp core under normal operational conditions.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:07 AM on October 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
I liked the fact that Saru tried and failed to bullshit his way through explaining why Discovery wasn't exploded by the Burn.
I dislike the fact that the term "Number One" for a first officer is being thrown around so freely, but I guess it's canon now. Maybe it was just a short-lived linguistic trend in the 23rd century, and Picard uses it because he's of a historical bent.
I think that a lot of the seemingly inconsistent limitations we see in the future tech can be explained in-universe by the dilithium shortage.
This seems reasonable to me. One of the things this in-universe reference book taught me is that Trek's matter/antimatter generators such as warp cores (which rely on dilithium to regulate the energy release) produce freakin' crazy amounts of energy; almost everything on a Galaxy-class ship is powered by the warp core under normal operational conditions.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:07 AM on October 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder just how old the Tal symbiont is? Is there some familiarity with 23rd century technology because Tal was around then? Even if Adira can't consciously access the symbiont's memories perhaps there's some subconscious influence there.
(I'm assuming that Admiral Senna Tal used the naming convention for joined Trill we're familiar with.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:44 AM on October 30, 2020
(I'm assuming that Admiral Senna Tal used the naming convention for joined Trill we're familiar with.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:44 AM on October 30, 2020
> I understand where Michael is coming from, though. She’s sampled that sweet, sweet work-from-home forbidden fruit and can never go back to working in an office again.At least 50% of it must be Grudge. Clearly, Captain Saru needs to stock the Discovery with a plethora of Maine Coons to lure her back.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:20 PM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
Question for long time nitpicking Trek fans.
Is there a reconciling (? whatever it's called where lore inconsistencies get collapsed into a sufficent explanation) for Starfleet facilities in San Francisco?
Because sometimes it's in The Presidio at the south end of the Golden Gate Bridge, sometimes atop the Marin Headlands at the northwest end, this time they were right at Fort Point on the northeast end.
I know it's just a TV show, but Trek fans are famous for going frame by frame and helping the writers out, coming up with their own head canons, so there might be one.
At this point I figure it's either:
a) it's in slightly different places in different universes. If you're hopping between parallel worlds, you can get oriented by asking which side of the bay HQ is, in the same way you might ask if they've ever heard of a ship named Kelvin.
b) it's a really big campus. Federation HQ is in the Presidio, Starfleet HQ is on the Headlands, and the Academy is where Sausalito is now. The Golden Gate Bridge is just used as a pedestrian walkway between facilities.
posted by bartleby at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
Is there a reconciling (? whatever it's called where lore inconsistencies get collapsed into a sufficent explanation) for Starfleet facilities in San Francisco?
Because sometimes it's in The Presidio at the south end of the Golden Gate Bridge, sometimes atop the Marin Headlands at the northwest end, this time they were right at Fort Point on the northeast end.
I know it's just a TV show, but Trek fans are famous for going frame by frame and helping the writers out, coming up with their own head canons, so there might be one.
At this point I figure it's either:
a) it's in slightly different places in different universes. If you're hopping between parallel worlds, you can get oriented by asking which side of the bay HQ is, in the same way you might ask if they've ever heard of a ship named Kelvin.
b) it's a really big campus. Federation HQ is in the Presidio, Starfleet HQ is on the Headlands, and the Academy is where Sausalito is now. The Golden Gate Bridge is just used as a pedestrian walkway between facilities.
posted by bartleby at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
Compared to the first two episodes this felt a bit flat. Back to old Trek plotting where they have to get from A to B and learned that the true friendship was lots of dilithium some diplomacy. The device of loading all the dilitihium on the cloaked shuttle was particularly goofy, I guess the set all that up just to have the 30 seconds of drama of Burnham maybe doing a runner with her handsome space rogue boyfriend?
I'm also super curious about Stamets being all blah blah about the spore drive. They are literally the only ship in the galaxy capable of going an meaningful distance in a reasonable amount of time. The are the global power. Don't give the secret away to the first smart nonbinary person you meet!
BTW, United Earth, your defense perimeter doesn't even extend as far as Jupiter? Saturn is outside scanning range'? ...tsk tsk, SMH. That's not even isolationism, that's just sad.
Worse than that, the Wen are humans living on Titan and are apparently unknown to Earth. They're like.. right there? Don't they pick up each other's AM radio stations? Or WiFi signals, or something? Also how did the Wen get a bunch of spaceships that look nothing at all like an other spaceships in the quadrant, much less the solar system?
I know, I know, all in service to the story. Just sometimes that requires more suspension of disbelief than others.
posted by Nelson at 4:09 PM on October 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm also super curious about Stamets being all blah blah about the spore drive. They are literally the only ship in the galaxy capable of going an meaningful distance in a reasonable amount of time. The are the global power. Don't give the secret away to the first smart nonbinary person you meet!
BTW, United Earth, your defense perimeter doesn't even extend as far as Jupiter? Saturn is outside scanning range'? ...tsk tsk, SMH. That's not even isolationism, that's just sad.
Worse than that, the Wen are humans living on Titan and are apparently unknown to Earth. They're like.. right there? Don't they pick up each other's AM radio stations? Or WiFi signals, or something? Also how did the Wen get a bunch of spaceships that look nothing at all like an other spaceships in the quadrant, much less the solar system?
I know, I know, all in service to the story. Just sometimes that requires more suspension of disbelief than others.
posted by Nelson at 4:09 PM on October 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
I am a little surprised that in the first scene where all of our regulars greet Burnham on the transporter pad save Georgiou, the latter just gives her the evil eye and stalks away. You are the mirror universe empress, the least trusted character on the show, AND you are pencilled in to be in the Section 31 show, which presumably takes place back when there is still a functional Federation. Just beam them all into space and work on a way home.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:58 PM on October 30, 2020
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:58 PM on October 30, 2020
bartleby, the Memory Alpha article has a sort of hybrid solution to your question: it puts the original, pre-Federation HQ (as seen in Enterprise) in Marin County, with the expansion to the Presidio happening by the next century and the Academy taking over the Marin County grounds. The MA article also deals with the Kelvin timeline, the various HQ buildings (including the water treatment plant in Van Nuys that stood in for part of it), and so forth. AFAIK, except maybe for the very founding of the Federation (which MA has taking place in San Francisco), Federation HQ has been in Paris; the last ep of DIS S1 shows the Eiffel Tower in a futuristic Paris when Burnham and the crew pick up their medals and she gets recommissioned.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:44 PM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:44 PM on October 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
This ep felt badly written and janky in direction. Especially some very weird cuts in the Book/Burnham hallway walk and talk.
posted by sixswitch at 9:50 PM on October 30, 2020
posted by sixswitch at 9:50 PM on October 30, 2020
I'm putting Stamets' loquaciousness down to Tilly - we heard her say that she knew how to hook a teenage genius, but then the scene cut. My headcanon is her saying "dangle some new tech in front of them - they're obviously looking for an excuse to come work with you." (although Tilly probably said "her" and "she", but will be the very first to get the pronouns right when that comes up)
posted by Mogur at 6:39 AM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 6:39 AM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
Btw, I'm running a post-apocalyptic Star Trek game here that was planned before we ever heard about S3's direction and I am *fascinated* by the similarities and differences. I am looking forward to seeing what happened on Vulcan over the last 930 years.
posted by Mogur at 6:42 AM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 6:42 AM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
I just assumed that Stamets knew that since the Earth Defence people scanned the entire science station including the inside of hte spore drive, - and they are about 150 years more advanced than anything on Discovery, that they would eventually figure most of it out themselves?
Him telling new future ensign - was kind of a 'you can trust me' and also an academic flex. He was far too smug about being the Spore drive Pilot.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:54 AM on October 31, 2020
Him telling new future ensign - was kind of a 'you can trust me' and also an academic flex. He was far too smug about being the Spore drive Pilot.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:54 AM on October 31, 2020
OK so somehow mostly federation ships were affected by the burn, despite the fact that there's a whole galaxy of warp-capable civilizations out there? Did they all get wiped out earlier?
I'm just annoyed with how many of the recent Star Treks have used some kind of Space 9/11 as a setup. Season 1 of this same show already started with a terrorist attack that was Burnham's backstory. There are so many other devices the writers could be using, like the TNG episode where they figure out that over hundreds of years, warp fields fuck up spacetime so and make it that people can't warp anymore.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:59 AM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm just annoyed with how many of the recent Star Treks have used some kind of Space 9/11 as a setup. Season 1 of this same show already started with a terrorist attack that was Burnham's backstory. There are so many other devices the writers could be using, like the TNG episode where they figure out that over hundreds of years, warp fields fuck up spacetime so and make it that people can't warp anymore.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:59 AM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah, if it was the federation that was mostly affected why aren't the Klingons or the cardassians running federation space? Even the Ferengi? Or will we hear about that later?
posted by biffa at 11:23 AM on October 31, 2020
posted by biffa at 11:23 AM on October 31, 2020
Starting to get the feeling that I respect Frakes as a director. At least on a Trek property.
His direction of the live-action Thunderbirds movie was underrated.
posted by mikelieman at 5:11 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
His direction of the live-action Thunderbirds movie was underrated.
posted by mikelieman at 5:11 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
live-action Thunderbirds movie
Wait, the what now?
Over the last 3 years, there have been at least 8 usenet anti-piracy-via-spam attacks that weren't automatically purged for 'Thunderbirds' (2004). There is a surprisingly high number of seeds for it on the torrent networks. IMDB score: 4.3
Oh. Oooh, sorry, I was thinking ThunderCats.'
There was a 'Thunderbirds' cartoon?
posted by porpoise at 7:09 PM on October 31, 2020
Wait, the what now?
Over the last 3 years, there have been at least 8 usenet anti-piracy-via-spam attacks that weren't automatically purged for 'Thunderbirds' (2004). There is a surprisingly high number of seeds for it on the torrent networks. IMDB score: 4.3
Oh. Oooh, sorry, I was thinking ThunderCats.'
There was a 'Thunderbirds' cartoon?
posted by porpoise at 7:09 PM on October 31, 2020
On rewatch: the badges are all Discovery badges, in the various gold/silver/copper/cadet colors and a variety of departments, with a name tag under each.
Still don't know whose they are; except for the one next to the one Tilly was adjusting, Murphy, S. OPS [serial number].
The description of the Burn is that 'almost all the dilithium went inert, across all of known space, simultaneously'.
Which means ANY ship that had its warp core running at that moment, instantly blew up in the resulting unregulated matter-antimatter explosion. As would anyone who turned on their reactor later, without first checking their crystals.
So it's like every spark plug in the universe went bad at once. And any working replacements have to be made of unaffected or freshly mined sparkplugium, which had already been running short in supply for the previous century, they said. And you only get so many parsecs out of each spark plug.
So much for a post-scarcity economy!
(Placing bets now on: a) an ep where someone's exploiting space whales/jellyfish for their biological warp capabilities, a Trek staple.
And/Or b) an ep where someone's hoarding a stash of rare 'yellow dilithium' that still works but can't handle the pressure that puts them under, and are convinced to change their ways by A Speech.)
Of the races we know about, I think most of them were using antimatter through dilithium lens technology? Except for those really big Romulan cruisers that used an artificial black hole; and whatever the mysterious Breen were up to on their weird ships.
posted by bartleby at 7:26 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Still don't know whose they are; except for the one next to the one Tilly was adjusting, Murphy, S. OPS [serial number].
The description of the Burn is that 'almost all the dilithium went inert, across all of known space, simultaneously'.
Which means ANY ship that had its warp core running at that moment, instantly blew up in the resulting unregulated matter-antimatter explosion. As would anyone who turned on their reactor later, without first checking their crystals.
So it's like every spark plug in the universe went bad at once. And any working replacements have to be made of unaffected or freshly mined sparkplugium, which had already been running short in supply for the previous century, they said. And you only get so many parsecs out of each spark plug.
So much for a post-scarcity economy!
(Placing bets now on: a) an ep where someone's exploiting space whales/jellyfish for their biological warp capabilities, a Trek staple.
And/Or b) an ep where someone's hoarding a stash of rare 'yellow dilithium' that still works but can't handle the pressure that puts them under, and are convinced to change their ways by A Speech.)
Of the races we know about, I think most of them were using antimatter through dilithium lens technology? Except for those really big Romulan cruisers that used an artificial black hole; and whatever the mysterious Breen were up to on their weird ships.
posted by bartleby at 7:26 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Precursor starship, almost empty space station, Earth protected by a giant shield, Ilwrath raiders showing up at an inconvenient time... This season is giving me a very Star Control II vibe.
posted by surlyben at 1:59 AM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by surlyben at 1:59 AM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
There was a 'Thunderbirds' cartoon?
Not a cartoon. SUPERMARIONATION!
Here's a trailer for one of the movies, Thunderbirds Are Go demonstrating the combination of miniature effects and puppetry. They really did excel in miniature effects. You look at films from the same late-60's timeframe, say, You Only Live Twice, and they really stand out.
posted by mikelieman at 3:19 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not a cartoon. SUPERMARIONATION!
Here's a trailer for one of the movies, Thunderbirds Are Go demonstrating the combination of miniature effects and puppetry. They really did excel in miniature effects. You look at films from the same late-60's timeframe, say, You Only Live Twice, and they really stand out.
posted by mikelieman at 3:19 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm a fan of Christopher Heyerdahl but the reveal of "Wait the space Pirates are Humans!" was Problematic?
What was the message, diplomacy is fine as long as our adversaries look like us?
Also I loved that the show is immediately killing any possible "will they / won't they?" vibe between Burnham and Booker.
I sincerely hope they stick with it.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:52 AM on November 1, 2020
What was the message, diplomacy is fine as long as our adversaries look like us?
Also I loved that the show is immediately killing any possible "will they / won't they?" vibe between Burnham and Booker.
I sincerely hope they stick with it.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:52 AM on November 1, 2020
No, there is a cartoon also, ran 2015-20.
The CGI thing with Weta Workshop, yeah that was good, but my digression had gone on long enough. They actual did some miniature effect which were composited with cgi backgrounds.
posted by mikelieman at 2:36 PM on November 1, 2020
The CGI thing with Weta Workshop, yeah that was good, but my digression had gone on long enough. They actual did some miniature effect which were composited with cgi backgrounds.
posted by mikelieman at 2:36 PM on November 1, 2020
Just as last episode Georgiou was lucky that the guns were nonlethal, this episode she was lucky that Wen was a human and not some sulfur-based life form who dies gruesomely on exposure to a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere. That would have been pretty awkward!
WIL WHEATON: This episode has this really fantastic, classic Star Trek storytelling choice, where we find out that these these two warring parties, oh hey, guess what, when you take your masks off, you're exactly the same. You're exactly the same people. […] But they've hated each other for so long that they've forgotten to find that common shared humanity. That's such a beautiful Star Trek story. It's so incredible. Will you talk about where this idea came from and how you all worked together to make that storyline work? […]
ERIKA LIPPOLDT: […] the sort of theme that we keep returning to is: How does disconnectedness affect us? And it seemed like the perfect way to tell that story was for sort of a faction of humans from Earth that sort of broke off a while ago, getting cut off as a result of this mysterious Burn event, and showing how when you're not willing to reach out and speak and communicate with someone else, it's so easy to just assume all the worst things about them, and sort of focus inward and want to protect yourselves at all costs.
posted by Syllepsis at 4:25 PM on November 1, 2020 [7 favorites]
> the reveal of "Wait the space Pirates are Humans!" was Problematic? What was the message, diplomacy is fine as long as our adversaries look like us?In the Ready Room commentary, they talk quite a bit about what they were going for.
WIL WHEATON: This episode has this really fantastic, classic Star Trek storytelling choice, where we find out that these these two warring parties, oh hey, guess what, when you take your masks off, you're exactly the same. You're exactly the same people. […] But they've hated each other for so long that they've forgotten to find that common shared humanity. That's such a beautiful Star Trek story. It's so incredible. Will you talk about where this idea came from and how you all worked together to make that storyline work? […]
ERIKA LIPPOLDT: […] the sort of theme that we keep returning to is: How does disconnectedness affect us? And it seemed like the perfect way to tell that story was for sort of a faction of humans from Earth that sort of broke off a while ago, getting cut off as a result of this mysterious Burn event, and showing how when you're not willing to reach out and speak and communicate with someone else, it's so easy to just assume all the worst things about them, and sort of focus inward and want to protect yourselves at all costs.
> the Wen are humans living on Titan and are apparently unknown to Earth. They're like.. right there? Don't they pick up each other's AM radio stations?They probably should have made them be from Alpha Centauri rather than Titan. Wen even looks like a descendant of Zefram Cochrane.
posted by Syllepsis at 4:25 PM on November 1, 2020 [7 favorites]
I watched Ray Walston plant that tree!
I like him better than both Matt Damon and Marvin.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 1:01 AM on November 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I like him better than both Matt Damon and Marvin.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 1:01 AM on November 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'd hate to be the non-bridge crew who are stuck in orbit fixing things while the main characters are swanning around enjoying things like A Real Atmosphere and Being On A Planet Which Isn't Trying To Kill You. I hope they gave everyone a bit of shore leave.
I'm really liking having Saru as the captain, Starfleet always felt like it was 90% humans with the odd token alien. A non-human captain, particularly at this point in the series, is a nice reminder that Federation and Starfleet don't just mean "human".
I am enjoying the future tech - it doesn't just look like Startfleet-but-swooshier like we've seen in the past. It looks genuinely far-future level. The EDF ships, in particular don't look anything like a Starfleet vessel. And Book's ship is -gasp- not symmetrical!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:56 AM on November 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm really liking having Saru as the captain, Starfleet always felt like it was 90% humans with the odd token alien. A non-human captain, particularly at this point in the series, is a nice reminder that Federation and Starfleet don't just mean "human".
I am enjoying the future tech - it doesn't just look like Startfleet-but-swooshier like we've seen in the past. It looks genuinely far-future level. The EDF ships, in particular don't look anything like a Starfleet vessel. And Book's ship is -gasp- not symmetrical!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:56 AM on November 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
she was lucky that Wen was a human and not some sulfur-based life form who dies gruesomely on exposure to a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere.
My interpretation is that Georgiou had already figured out he was a human. I assume that any character played by Michelle Yeoh must be very good at reading people’s body language.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:13 AM on November 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
My interpretation is that Georgiou had already figured out he was a human. I assume that any character played by Michelle Yeoh must be very good at reading people’s body language.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:13 AM on November 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
My interpretation is that Georgiou had already figured out he was a human. I assume that any character played by Michelle Yeoh must be very good at reading people’s body language.
Georgiou rose to the top of an extremely xenophobic society -- I assumed that she's specifically very good at using body language to tell the difference between a human wearing a funny suit and a non-human wearing a funny suit.
posted by confluency at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Georgiou rose to the top of an extremely xenophobic society -- I assumed that she's specifically very good at using body language to tell the difference between a human wearing a funny suit and a non-human wearing a funny suit.
posted by confluency at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm sure Georgiou was at least 90% certain there was a N2/O2-breathing humanoid inside that suit. 80% minimum.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:45 PM on November 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:45 PM on November 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Brainy over-achieving teenager on a starship…oh dear. I hope Adira is not Wesley Crusher 2.0
posted by jabah at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jabah at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I assume that we are going to see Vulcan soon. I am not sure we are in the Kelvin timeline at all so Vulcan, the other founder of the Federation, would be the next travel designation. The Vulcan Academy of Sciences would be the place to do a consultation.
Can I say that giving away all your dilithium is CRAZY and makes you reliant on a transportation technology that has some serious weak links like a mortal navigator who could die and no backup plan level of weak? My main hope is that Adira allows the plot device of upgrading the Discovery to standard 1000 year technology advancements. I think we vibe that the Disco is a FTL museum.
posted by jadepearl at 4:41 PM on November 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Can I say that giving away all your dilithium is CRAZY and makes you reliant on a transportation technology that has some serious weak links like a mortal navigator who could die and no backup plan level of weak? My main hope is that Adira allows the plot device of upgrading the Discovery to standard 1000 year technology advancements. I think we vibe that the Disco is a FTL museum.
posted by jadepearl at 4:41 PM on November 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
On rewatch: the badges are all Discovery badges, in the various gold/silver/copper/cadet colors and a variety of departments, with a name tag under each.
Still don't know whose they are; except for the one next to the one Tilly was adjusting, Murphy, S. OPS [serial number].
It's a memorial wall, no? That's the distinct impression I got when Tilly essentially said they hadn't had time to mourn them. (Paraphrasing: We haven't had time to say goodbye.)
posted by cooker girl at 8:26 AM on November 20, 2020
Still don't know whose they are; except for the one next to the one Tilly was adjusting, Murphy, S. OPS [serial number].
It's a memorial wall, no? That's the distinct impression I got when Tilly essentially said they hadn't had time to mourn them. (Paraphrasing: We haven't had time to say goodbye.)
posted by cooker girl at 8:26 AM on November 20, 2020
They hadn't made a big deal out of 16 or so crew members dying in the pew-pew battle with Control (which was only HOURS before landing in the Parasitic Ice, btw); but they did at least mention that not all of Discovery's crew came along on the one-way mission.
So it wasn't / isn't clear whether memorial wall or saying goodbye means they got blowed up by evil robots just yesterday, or if they stayed behind in the past and died peacefully of old age 860 years ago.
posted by bartleby at 1:54 PM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
So it wasn't / isn't clear whether memorial wall or saying goodbye means they got blowed up by evil robots just yesterday, or if they stayed behind in the past and died peacefully of old age 860 years ago.
posted by bartleby at 1:54 PM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:27 AM on October 29, 2020 [1 favorite]