Succession: Living+
May 1, 2023 6:01 AM - Season 4, Episode 6 - Subscribe

Ahead of Investor Day, Shiv weighs a proposal from Matsson, while Kendall and Roman each try to match Logan’s volatile leadership style.
posted by The Notorious SRD (58 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
It's Kendall's world now. Feed the world ludicrous numbers and they lap it up. Compared to, say, cryptocurrency, the projections and promises for Living+ were downright modest.
posted by whuppy at 6:30 AM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


OK, I had to pause the episode at that "flawless" edit in Logan's video because I was laughing so hard.
posted by Pendragon at 6:50 AM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


Based on the competence required of every employee that comes anywhere near a them, every Roy child must always be the dumbest person in the room. It's not just that the Roy kids are dumb -- it's that to be their stage manager you've got be a modern Leonardo Da Vinci. I think Jess is pretty much qualified to plan the invasion of Normandy.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:47 AM on May 1, 2023 [15 favorites]


I did spend half the episode thinking "hey Shiv is competent," which is not something I actually agree with, but I think there's just the S1 vibes of Shiv being disconnected from the company hierarchy in a way that makes me assume she would be doing a better job than her brothers. Anyway, I love that Kendall wheeled out a manipulated digital file of the recently deceased patriarch to promote life extension and no one thought twice about it. Logan Roy is now Kendall Roy's most valuable IP!

Also, man, I don't know, the Tom/Shiv mean flirting works so much for me and I don't know what it means. What is happening. Succession is no place for love! I feel like I'm going insane, but this relationship is finally plausible this season.

I loved the "good year for America, for democracy, and for ATN ad revenue" bit from the ATN talking head. Very Fox News.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:21 AM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


I wonder who will make a deal with the devil/Mencken. It's like keeping the shark in Jaws off-camera until the last moment.

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:53 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


Why do I love Tom so much for Shiv? It's not like he's a great person. But somehow he melts my heart.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 9:10 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]


I wonder who will make a deal with the devil/Mencken.

Doubling down on my previous comment: the Mencken-ATN scandal that’s been brewing in the background of this season but ignored by the kids is going to explode and force Mencken to bow out. Connor will somehow be tapped to replace him as the Republican nominee and subsequently win the Presidency.
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:30 AM on May 1, 2023 [7 favorites]


I wonder who will make a deal with the devil/Mencken.

Shiv is the one with the most concerns about Mencken, but she may be interested in securing a (insanely rich) future for her child.
posted by armacy at 10:16 AM on May 1, 2023


Why do I love Tom so much for Shiv?

At least he's honest about his love for money. Maybe the rest of the Roys could learn something from that.
posted by Pendragon at 10:16 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]


Also, Hugo missed the chance to drop "Le Roy est mort, vive le Roy!"
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2023 [8 favorites]


I thought that was thrilling. Edging towards the event was like being ratcheted up towards the top of a roller coaster. When we got there, it was cringe and I literally watched through my fingers, but that's actually how I watch these events in real life because they're fucking embarrasing and the world is cringe and capitalism really brings out the stupid in humanity. And so he somehow pulled it off. Or at least, he made it through the day. There's lots of chickens out there that need to come home to roost sometime soon.
I was reelling from it all so didn't quite know what to make of the scene at the end with the attachment Kendall sent Roman, and his reaction to it.
posted by chill at 11:36 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]


So much more apparent now that Logan is dead just how masochistic and self-loathing the kids have to be to feel loved.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:39 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


Bitey had to be a game Shiv first played with her brothers, right? Or at least with Roman. I still remember their physical fight (wrestling, falling down, no bloodshed) from early in the first season.
posted by maudlin at 11:46 AM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


There's lots of chickens out there that need to come home to roost sometime soon.

I doubt there's enough time left in the show for us to see consequences, but changing Logan's revenue estimate is a massive SEC violation. It's worth keeping in mind that for all the horrible shit she did, the only thing Elizabeth Holmes was ultimately convicted of was lying to her investors.
posted by Ragged Richard at 11:52 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


I don't think so. Holmes lied about concrete claims regarding their products. Listen again to what Logan "said": "I'm convinced that the Living+ real estate brand can bring the cruise ship experience to dry land and double the earnings of our park division." Companies make bold statements about how they hope their ventures will go all the time.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:03 PM on May 1, 2023


Sure, and if anyone had just got onto stage and said that, it would have been fine. But since Logan's dead, I think that representing to your investors that he said one thing when in fact he said something else becomes fraud. You could certainly be right though, I'm far from an expert in securities law.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:26 PM on May 1, 2023


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

It may have been an optical illusion but I am pretty sure the faux-"Minions" poster on the side of the Waystar Studios in H'wood (seen in an aerial shot when Roman is about to meet Joy) has the requisite yellow creatures but the text says "Morons"

ah yes.... there it is

and Reddit links it to this which means there's some kind of Moronic Convergence underway
posted by chavenet at 12:31 PM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


on a different note, I love to see love, Roy/Wambsgans style

I keep expecting Shiv to drop the baby bomb, and yet she doesn't; I still think she's the wily-est negotiator and that Logan's youngest grandchild is the, er, Trump card
posted by chavenet at 12:33 PM on May 1, 2023


I felt the tension in that scene with the accountant. I've not been put in a similar situation regarding money but definitely around "do we have this technical capability". It was painful to watch.
posted by mmascolino at 12:41 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


Greg: “I think it’s hard to make houses seem like tech, because we’ve had houses for a while.”

Greg to Tom: “This is kinda good for you, cause your presentation, not great. And so now no one will be watching.”
posted by Crystalinne at 12:54 PM on May 1, 2023 [11 favorites]


I’m starting to worry that we won’t get a funeral episode, which seems like a missed opportunity.
posted by ColdChef at 1:16 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


I think that representing to your investors that he said one thing when in fact he said something else becomes fraud

That doesn't matter. He's dead. What a dead guy said about a company's financials is meaningless. But telling your investors, as co-CEO, that such and such LOB is going to increase by 100% in a period of time without the hard numbers to back it up definitely is fraud. Wish-casting a result and reeeallly hoping it happens can lead to devastating investor lawsuits. Making shit up so it sounds good and therefore drives the stock price way up to you can personally benefit in some way (GoJo backing out of deal) can lead to prison. That's why Carl got aggressive with Ken backstage. As CFO, he'll be in prison right along-side Ken if he signs of horseshit numbers.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 1:35 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


Trying to get crazy valuations out of a real estate play was definitely an echo of Wework's Adam Neumann's latest venture.
posted by mmascolino at 1:37 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


That's why Carl got aggressive with Ken backstage. As CFO, he'll be in prison right along-side Ken if he signs of horseshit numbers.

But then he and Gerri and everyone else were back on the Ken train after the presentation. I didn't get that at all. The fact that the presentation was a success seems like it would make things worse for them. If the value of the company and/or stocks go up based on Kendall's bullshit numbers, doesn't that increase their potential liability? Caveat that I don't understand business and frequently find this show confusing.
posted by Mavri at 1:55 PM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]


But then he and Gerri and everyone else were back on the Ken train after the presentation. I didn't get that at all.

I read that as a combination of hyping him up to stay on his good side, and relief that he didn't totally screw things up. Instead of saying concretely inflated numbers, he said that Karl would be the one behind them, giving Karl a chance to smooth things over. And the market reacted positively to the presentation.
posted by zsazsa at 2:08 PM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


It's such an awful, funny joke that every cringe thing the siblings do winds up making their stock value go up. The corporate juggernaut is just too powerful. The line keeps winding skyward.

As someone who is weirdly obsessive about Apple keynotes, going back to the Steve Jobs days, Kendall's keynote here is a pitch-perfect take on product launches by the sort of CEO who really liked Steve Jobs but didn't really understand him. I immediately thought of the Cybertruck window-smash, but even more than that, there are just so many performative releases of milquetoast products where the CEO has to make every dumb little feature sound like it's worth applauding for. Such a weird phenomenon. How did we collectively decide that this was a sane thing for corporate executives to do?

Unrelatedly: man, Tom gets all the best monologues. Just like Shiv gets all the best one-line put-downs.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 2:31 PM on May 1, 2023 [7 favorites]


joya mccrory - Spotted: Abbott Elementary in the background of tonight’s Succession 👀
posted by Apocryphon at 2:31 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


The backstage arguments: how to make a cloud like Kendal said he had seen in Berlin, how to make the Living+ numbers look worthy of taking Waystar to the moon and how to make Logan say whatever Greg’s script required, could maybe have had its own episode.
posted by rongorongo at 3:25 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


What happened with Gerri? Roman fired her, but then she was at the investor meeting the next day without comment from anyone. Roman was shown immediately regretting the firing and asking Ken to undo it, but Ken instead congratulated him on firing her and seemed to be on board with it.

Is the implication that Ken actually did go mollify her and smooth things out off-screen? Or does Gerri know Roman well enough to know he's toothless and she can just show up the next day as if nothing ever happened?

Either way, it was very odd after such a huge scene to have it immediately reversed without comment.
posted by star gentle uterus at 3:32 PM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]


it's the second time Roman's fired Gerri; it was one of what turned out to be Logan's final wishes. Both times though Roman's played "backsies"; he is in love with her still, after all
posted by chavenet at 3:52 PM on May 1, 2023


Spotted: Abbott Elementary in the background of tonight’s Succession

Yeah, the overhead shots were clearly a CGI enhanced version of the Warner Brothers Studios lot in Burbank, which is where Abbott Elementary is actually shot.

The studio office exteriors looked off to me. I wonder if that was somewhere else. Although, I haven't been there in the daytime in 20 or so years, so perhaps that's just how they look these days.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 3:52 PM on May 1, 2023


In the Roman fires Gerri scene, was that a painting of a sinking ship over Gerri's shoulder?

"Roman fired her, but then she was at the investor meeting the next day without comment from anyone."

I guess Roman firing her doesn't count, after all this is the second time.

I wonder if Joy ignores him, and just keeps working.
posted by Marky at 3:54 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


The cloud that wasn't properly ethereal for a pitch with inflated numbers playing off the idea of eternal life was a nice touch.

I keep expecting Shiv to drop the baby bomb, and yet she doesn't

Me too, though my sense (from Snook's excellent acting) is that Shiv knows once she tell's Tom it's real, and it will be emotionally harder for her to back out from the baby and from their relationship. Shiv, always weighing her options. If I were the sort to bet, I think she and Tom will team up with Matsson to screw over the brothers.

I did spend half the episode thinking "hey Shiv is competent," which is not something I actually agree with, but I think there's just the S1 vibes of Shiv being disconnected from the company hierarchy in a way that makes me assume she would be doing a better job than her brothers.

Agreed, and what this episode really highlighted is while all the kids have an inflated sense of self and want praise, Shiv doesn't care about being viewed as some badass disrupter like Kendall clearly wants (and Roman to a lessor extent) - she actually tries to be competent, and while her ego certainly gets in the way sometimes she at least has the right goal. All the kids wanted the please Logan, but I never got the sense that Shiv wanted to become Logan - she always approached the idea of being the successor as a chance to pivot the company more fundamentally than either brother would consider.
posted by coffeecat at 3:59 PM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


it's the second time Roman's fired Gerri; it was one of what turned out to be Logan's final wishes. Both times though Roman's played "backsies"; he is in love with her still, after all

No, he didn't, which is my point. He specifically talked to Ken about Ken doing it, but Ken seemed to say he wasn't going to. And this is the first time Roman has fired her in his own capacity: the previous time Roman was just acting as the axeman for Logan, who died before he could initiate the formal process, so Gerri stayed on.

It's just really strange that this was a huge scene that seemingly went nowhere. Nothing happened between it and Gerri being back like usual.
posted by star gentle uterus at 4:06 PM on May 1, 2023 [6 favorites]


Yeah, one of the funniest aspects of this show is when the Roy kids' delusions come into contact with the hyper competent reality of their underlings. E.g., "Everyone say, 'Yes Kendall, thank you for the new rule, Kendal'" and Greg threatening the video editor with Greg getting in trouble if the video isn't edited well.

I just binged the show a few weeks ago. My original (admittedly low info) reason for not watching was that its just wealth/power porn. It is that, but its also a satire, which is nice.

On Gerri and Roman: reminds me of the Roseanne writers' room article on MeFi last week. They had a rule than when Roseanne fires you, you just show up the next day and hope she forgot. Could be that she understands Roman is having these impulsive, emotional tantrums where he -- out of nowhere -- decides to fire people when he gets the sense he's not in charge. Could be that she is an extremely savvy player who is too well plugged in to allow herself to be fired by someone who is basically unable to do the actual legal legwork of firing her without her help. She's not some 29 year old video editor. Could also be that she represents the money and the money always wins.
posted by Hume at 5:03 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


10/10 on the clouds, shame they were cut from the final presentation.
posted by peeedro at 6:27 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


Can I be really shallow and bring up Kendall's hair? I was obsessed with his terrible dye job this episode...
posted by EllaEm at 7:53 PM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]


Although I think we're getting real development on the Siobhan vs the Blowjob Brothers front, cousin Greg was just delightful in this episode. What a slimy little weasel! I don't know how that actor will ever escape this character type, he does it so well.
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 PM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]


10/10 on the clouds, shame they were cut from the final presentation.
They were so bad the whole house got cut! I felt sorry for the people working on the set.
posted by wilberforce at 8:41 PM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]


Not particularly tied to this episode - but I'd recommend "A deep dive into what makes Succession so similar Shakespeare's King Lear and Titus Andronicus" from Overthinking it. I particularly liked her observation that, when none of main characters come anywhere near to telling the truth under ordinary circumstances - the truth has to leak out accidentally through other channels - and just very occasionally - through something somebody says .
posted by rongorongo at 12:45 AM on May 2, 2023


Also, man, I don't know, the Tom/Shiv mean flirting works so much for me and I don't know what it means. What is happening. Succession is no place for love! I feel like I'm going insane, but this relationship is finally plausible this season.

Tom honestly stating that the money is important to him and Shiv's acknowledgement that obviously it is to her is two people seeing each other fully as they are which is the necessary precursor for forming a deeper connection and restoring their relationship.

Agreed, and what this episode really highlighted is while all the kids have an inflated sense of self and want praise, Shiv doesn't care about being viewed as some badass disrupter like Kendall clearly wants (and Roman to a lessor extent) - she actually tries to be competent, and while her ego certainly gets in the way sometimes she at least has the right goal.

The difference is that Shiv has a better sense of her own abilities. Helpfully for her own ego, she has built a career in political advisory outside of Waystar so her self-worth isn't tied up with running the company well.

The thing is, Living+ is actually a good idea? It plays on the Waystar brand as being trusted by older, conservative retired people, combines gated communities (which those people love!) with the entertainment and news brands and Thiel style blood bag nonsense. It's the Villages +.

Obviously the manipulation of the video would be embarrassing if it came out. Claiming "Logan said X" when he did not is arguably misleading shareholders - he didn't say that! On the other hand, the SEC is much less finicky about future-looking statements than historical ones.

Theranos people went to prison for lying about what they were already doing, not for being unrealistic about the future. Every time crazy Elon starts a quarterly earnings call with all kinds of wild forecasts, a very serious CFO figure follows him up to talk about the actual performance of the quarter just finished - they don't bullshit about the past, only the future.
posted by atrazine at 2:05 AM on May 2, 2023 [7 favorites]


For anyone else wondering about the specific nuance of Matsson's offensive tweet, Doderick is a Waystar/Royco mascot character. A big theme park animal costume for a person, seen way back in the very first episode worn (disastrously) by Cousin Greg. So it's nothing too complicated, Matsson is associating Living+ with a Nazi concentration camp by referring to a symbol of the company. (And boy did the writer's borrow heavily from Elon Musk this episode.)

Kendall's manic energy as he was faking up the financial reports was really alarming to me. He looked like he was on a coke bender but this time his destructive behavior seems to be manifesting as financial fraud in pursuit of power.

Roman seems genuinely sincerely worried about how it's all falling apart. Still too craven to actually do anything effective (other than spur of the moment firings of employees) but it seems like in his head he's finally figured out just how bad he and Kendall are fucking it up. "I'm convinced that Roman Roy has a micro dick and always gets it wrong."

Shiv's the one in the middle, she doesn't know where her own loyalties lie. Tom, bless him, seems genuinely romantic. Or at least as much as he's capable of.
posted by Nelson at 7:06 AM on May 2, 2023 [2 favorites]


"I'm convinced that Roman Roy has a micro dick and always gets it wrong."

Oddly enough, Logan was able to know both Roman's competence and dick size.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:39 AM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Can I be really shallow and bring up Kendall's hair? I was obsessed with his terrible dye job this episode...

Yes! It looks like black boot polish.
posted by essexjan at 12:06 PM on May 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


I'm no expert on US securities law but it seems like the last two episodes are lawsuit territory, particularly if they inflate the stock price, with numbers they ought to know are misleading, in a way that tanks the deal.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:02 PM on May 2, 2023


I thought that the doctored recording Roman watched at the end was a gift from Greg, and that it also proves that the speech was edited. But am I overthinking things? Was it supposed to be obvious in the presentation that the speech had been edited?
posted by orbific at 11:06 AM on May 3, 2023


I thought that the doctored recording Roman watched at the end was a gift from Greg

You could see on the phone that Kendall sent the recording to Roman. I suppose as a brotherly gift (and probably Greg did the logistics).
posted by roolya_boolya at 11:22 AM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]


You could see on the phone that Kendall sent the recording to Roman. I suppose as a brotherly gift (and probably Greg did the logistics).

Ah, thanks roolya_boolya, I missed that completely! Wow, that was mean...
posted by orbific at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


In context I thought it was kinda sweet of Kendall.
posted by roolya_boolya at 1:32 PM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]


In context I thought it was kinda sweet of Kendall.

Oof, no, not sweet! Roman replaying it over and over was emotional self-harm. He felt like he made the wrong call by not going on stage, since the presentation went well. So him listening to his dad say “… and always gets it wrong.” Owww.

Greg: “I think it’s hard to make houses seem like tech, because we’ve had houses for a while.”

I was also thinking of WeWork as Greg said this!
posted by bluloo at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


Roman replaying it over and over was emotional self-harm.

Oh he loves it. And listening to Dad sure is less problematic than calling up Gerri for some late night humiliation.

(You're absolutely right in any normal emotional world. But Succession is funhouse-mirror people.)
posted by Nelson at 11:19 AM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]


I sorta love the intimacy of the sibling rivalry. Nobody knows you better.
posted by whuppy at 7:25 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


When Kendall tries to increase the value. Forcing the accountant to agree there's this quick phrase "plus repackaging health data to third parties"
Blink and you miss it.
The awfulness of the Roys.
posted by jouke at 8:22 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]


I've never felt as narratively off-balance watching TV as I do when I watch this show, particularly this season (and especially when it involves chaos monkey Mattson).

Literally anything could happen plot-wise and I'd be like "yeah sure I guess so." Seriously, Greg could end this season as CEO and I'd be like "yeah sure I guess so".
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:14 PM on May 11, 2023


What a wild ride this was, from Roman impulsively firing the studio head and then Gerri. Then Kendall pushing, pushing the set design, the taped intro, the projected revenue. Putting each underling in a hard position. Roman, regretting what he just did, tries to walk it back but Kendall won’t have it and then seeing how manic Kendall is, Roman tries to bring him down. Everyone thinks, knows! the presentation is going to be a disaster. Kendall takes it right to the brink…and then backs off the crazy. It’s a huge success. The Villages + Disney’s Celebration + Seaside. Even Mattson yielded. (I think there was a reference to Doderick—maybe one of the giant posters on the outside of the building? Because I saw the name somewhere in this episode.)

The last scene with Kendall in the water, like last season’s swimming pool scene with slightly less dread.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:59 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]


For anyone else wondering about the specific nuance of Matsson's offensive tweet, Doderick is a Waystar/Royco mascot character. A big theme park animal costume for a person, seen way back in the very first episode worn (disastrously) by Cousin Greg yt .

I'm not usually one for more narrative handholding but I spent a fair amount of the back end of this episode wondering wtf Doderick was or whether I had misheard the word; could have done with an in-script assist there, I think...
posted by dusty potato at 6:56 PM on May 17, 2023


When Karl threatened "I'll squeal", was he referring to the guy Kendall killed?? Or was he just being more generically blustery? I can't remember if anyone knows about that at this point other than Kendall and Logan's security chief.
posted by dusty potato at 6:58 PM on May 17, 2023


Oh I imagine Karl has any number of things he could squeal about, but I agree it felt immediately like a reference to the housing fraud. OTOH Karl also has oinked like a boar on the floor, so perhaps squealing isn't entirely metaphorical.
posted by Nelson at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2023


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