Severance: Chikhai Bardo
February 27, 2025 6:08 PM - Season 2, Episode 7 - Subscribe
An old romance intersects with a deadly present threat.
oh god oh god oh shit oh god oh no oh yes SHIT SHIT SHIT what YESNO
I love you too, and I'm sorry.
posted by uphc at 6:58 PM on February 27 [7 favorites]
I love you too, and I'm sorry.
posted by uphc at 6:58 PM on February 27 [7 favorites]
GEMMA EPISODE!!!
Ah, but ... horror episode.
posted by destructive cactus at 7:00 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Ah, but ... horror episode.
posted by destructive cactus at 7:00 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Trigger warning: miscarriage
... amongst others.
(Like, I was glad Lumon didn't get ahold of Gemma and Mark's baby.)
posted by Pronoiac at 7:08 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
... amongst others.
(Like, I was glad Lumon didn't get ahold of Gemma and Mark's baby.)
posted by Pronoiac at 7:08 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
For those curious about the song - that's Valse à mille temps by Jacques Brel. This live performance of it has English subtitles to the actual French lyrics, not to be mistaken for the fully re-written-in-English-and-not-the-same-song called "Carousel" used in the Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris musical.
posted by tzikeh at 7:10 PM on February 27 [7 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 7:10 PM on February 27 [7 favorites]
If I followed:
* Cairn - dentist
* Allentown - writing thank-you cards
* there was also an airplane ride
* yoga
* I should've gotten the room list...
"It's always Christmas" shouldn't be chilling, and yet
posted by Pronoiac at 7:16 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
* Cairn - dentist
* Allentown - writing thank-you cards
* there was also an airplane ride
* yoga
* I should've gotten the room list...
"It's always Christmas" shouldn't be chilling, and yet
posted by Pronoiac at 7:16 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
"Who are you?"
Severance, Land of Half Answers and more questions.
Heartbreaking to see their relationship flower and wither. I just wanted to live in the beautifully shot early world of their relationship.
As Gemma was home working on those lumon cards, including the one Dylan stole in season 1, There were close ups of Mark and Gemma. And Gemma was photographed very grainy. As if she was already breaking up.
Mark tearing apart that crib, and showing signs of the bitter oMark we know.
Gemma_Ms Casey listening to "I'll Be Seeing You," which was playing at the end of episode 107 when Mark was reassembling her torn picture.
Dichen Lachman through the whole episode!
---
One detail: I noticed the grout issue in their shower because I have that problem.
And then one of Gemma's whatever they weres involved getting a degrouter.
WHATEVER THEY WERE.
Was she taken from an accident?
Did she stage it?
Was she participating in this program just because they helped her forget *her* grief over the miscarriages.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:22 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Severance, Land of Half Answers and more questions.
Heartbreaking to see their relationship flower and wither. I just wanted to live in the beautifully shot early world of their relationship.
As Gemma was home working on those lumon cards, including the one Dylan stole in season 1, There were close ups of Mark and Gemma. And Gemma was photographed very grainy. As if she was already breaking up.
Mark tearing apart that crib, and showing signs of the bitter oMark we know.
Gemma_Ms Casey listening to "I'll Be Seeing You," which was playing at the end of episode 107 when Mark was reassembling her torn picture.
Dichen Lachman through the whole episode!
---
One detail: I noticed the grout issue in their shower because I have that problem.
And then one of Gemma's whatever they weres involved getting a degrouter.
WHATEVER THEY WERE.
Was she taken from an accident?
Did she stage it?
Was she participating in this program just because they helped her forget *her* grief over the miscarriages.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:22 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Timothy Leary wrote The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on The Tibetan Book of the Dead, and described ego-death in it - "three stages are discerned:
* Chikhai Bardo: ego loss, a "complete transcendence" of the self and game;
* Chonyid Bardo: The Period of Hallucinations;
* Sidpa Bardo: the return to routine game reality and the self."
Bardo: "an intermediate, transitional, or liminal state between death and rebirth"
posted by Pronoiac at 7:29 PM on February 27 [14 favorites]
* Chikhai Bardo: ego loss, a "complete transcendence" of the self and game;
* Chonyid Bardo: The Period of Hallucinations;
* Sidpa Bardo: the return to routine game reality and the self."
Bardo: "an intermediate, transitional, or liminal state between death and rebirth"
posted by Pronoiac at 7:29 PM on February 27 [14 favorites]
(so Dichen Lachman was amazing on the old Joss Wheadon show Dollhouse where she played a "doll" who was essentially a sleepwalking innie who did yoga all day until she would be "woken" to go on different adventures as different characters. typecasting!)
posted by armacy at 7:32 PM on February 27 [18 favorites]
posted by armacy at 7:32 PM on February 27 [18 favorites]
I'm going to disagree that yoga was one of the rooms. When we see Gemma doing yoga she's wearing the green "at home" outfit. In all the other room she's wearing other "outside" clothing.
posted by cooker girl at 7:36 PM on February 27 [15 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 7:36 PM on February 27 [15 favorites]
Was waiting for the alcohol to fully appear and it’s in the background when he’s taking apart the crib.
posted by sibboleth at 7:40 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
posted by sibboleth at 7:40 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
SO glad she knocked that mfer out. It was time. I’m hoping she stays mad.
posted by wemayfreeze at 7:47 PM on February 27 [12 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 7:47 PM on February 27 [12 favorites]
Mostly right now I hate Lumon SO MUCH and I don't know if I can bear to hope for any kind of happy ending for Mark and Gemma. Fuck those people. (Hi Robby Benson long time no see and still wondering why The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald?)
I did actually sort of talk out loud while Gemma was escaping, mostly muttering "Come on Gemma" over and over until I shouted "FUCK YOU MISTER MILCHICK" and then I shut up because I can't imagine what my neighbors would think if they heard me.
posted by tzikeh at 7:51 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
I did actually sort of talk out loud while Gemma was escaping, mostly muttering "Come on Gemma" over and over until I shouted "FUCK YOU MISTER MILCHICK" and then I shut up because I can't imagine what my neighbors would think if they heard me.
posted by tzikeh at 7:51 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
I just wanted to live in the beautifully shot early world of their relationship.
Their cinematographer/DP, Jessica Lee Gagné, directed this episode, which is why it's so beautiful.
posted by tzikeh at 8:04 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
Their cinematographer/DP, Jessica Lee Gagné, directed this episode, which is why it's so beautiful.
posted by tzikeh at 8:04 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
In tv/movies, if a woman turns down a drink, it one hundred percent means that she is pregnant.
It irrationally annoys me.
posted by flarbuse at 8:12 PM on February 27 [33 favorites]
It irrationally annoys me.
posted by flarbuse at 8:12 PM on February 27 [33 favorites]
Nothing... says... Christmas... like... grouting.
Which, oh wow, this episode was so impossibly sad. And yet the grouting thing was so perverse, it's so funny in comparison.
So: Those weird/ordinary household items that O&D makes, that's where they go. Which supports that maybe the ORTBO was just a door to a room somewhere, similarly, that feels like a whole world.... And the rooms, each one might elicit a particular emotion (dentist = dread). So they're literally farming her emotions.
And it explains where Gemma is all the time -- I'd been thinking she was on life support in some room with a bunch of wires and tubed, and on occasion they might shoot her innie full of adrenaline and trot her in as Ms. Casey, making do with it as part of some rough early testing, but this is so much more advanced than I'd imagined.
What were the four people who were monitoring MDR doing? Is MDR responding to Gemma's emotions, and then this shadow team is responding to MDR's response?
Robby Benson looks oddly like Ben Stiller's evil alter ego.
posted by mochapickle at 8:35 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Which, oh wow, this episode was so impossibly sad. And yet the grouting thing was so perverse, it's so funny in comparison.
So: Those weird/ordinary household items that O&D makes, that's where they go. Which supports that maybe the ORTBO was just a door to a room somewhere, similarly, that feels like a whole world.... And the rooms, each one might elicit a particular emotion (dentist = dread). So they're literally farming her emotions.
And it explains where Gemma is all the time -- I'd been thinking she was on life support in some room with a bunch of wires and tubed, and on occasion they might shoot her innie full of adrenaline and trot her in as Ms. Casey, making do with it as part of some rough early testing, but this is so much more advanced than I'd imagined.
What were the four people who were monitoring MDR doing? Is MDR responding to Gemma's emotions, and then this shadow team is responding to MDR's response?
Robby Benson looks oddly like Ben Stiller's evil alter ego.
posted by mochapickle at 8:35 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Was she participating in this program just because they helped her forget *her* grief over the miscarriages.
What it looks like to me:
Gemma and Mark give blood at a Lumon blood drive
Gemma (and Mark?) is/are identified through the blood as being a good candidate for [Lumon Shit]
Lumon makes sure that Gemma does not get pregnant through the fertility clinic
Gemma is sent the cards as a further test of her fitness for this program (why Milchick had to make sure no card made its way to Outtie Mark somehow when Dylan took one)
Gemma is kidnapped, accident faked, disfigured or burnt body with some identifying bit of jewelry on it for Mark to see at the morgue
posted by oneirodynia at 8:37 PM on February 27 [25 favorites]
What it looks like to me:
Gemma and Mark give blood at a Lumon blood drive
Gemma (and Mark?) is/are identified through the blood as being a good candidate for [Lumon Shit]
Lumon makes sure that Gemma does not get pregnant through the fertility clinic
Gemma is sent the cards as a further test of her fitness for this program (why Milchick had to make sure no card made its way to Outtie Mark somehow when Dylan took one)
Gemma is kidnapped, accident faked, disfigured or burnt body with some identifying bit of jewelry on it for Mark to see at the morgue
posted by oneirodynia at 8:37 PM on February 27 [25 favorites]
severance is useful for human experimentation because you can do awful things to an innie that an outie won't remember (although s/he may have a sore mouth)?
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:49 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:49 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
IMO They're basically doing market research on Gemma. I think what Cold Harbor represents is her worst fear re: suffocating or drowning. Then they can sell the Severance chip to people by saying you won't have to experiencing all these terrible things- including your fear of dying.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:15 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 9:15 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
I thought maybe she was just severely injured in the accident and the rooms are rehabilitation? Dental reconstruction, motor skills with the thank you cards, etc. No idea about the airplane simulator though. But then the card appears makes a strong case for her being targeted. Plus it’s not exactly restorative to tell her she can go back to Mark soon and then lie about him being remarried.
posted by mikepop at 9:16 PM on February 27
posted by mikepop at 9:16 PM on February 27
She asked if she could go back to Mark soon, and he said that she'd be siring a whole new world that Mark would benefit from (I forget the exact line) - not answering her question and saying something pretty messed-up instead.
posted by destructive cactus at 9:20 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
posted by destructive cactus at 9:20 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
How many innies can one outie contain? It seems likely all of these tests are to find out how much pain bleeds through from terrible experiences, but they sure have split Gemma into an awful lot of people -- each of whom is a living person.
Gemma reacting to an outfit of clothing as "this is the one where my mouth hurts after" is pretty awful.
The "always Christmas" innie (where Edmund Fitzgerald DDS is playing Happy Families with Gemma) seems the most *like* Gemma - not far off from her outie's personality.
The four people monitoring our four innies looked very much like each of them in turn, and I wonder if they were the doppelgangers in Woe's Hollow.
Also - hey, Sandra Bernhard, nice to see you!
posted by tzikeh at 9:22 PM on February 27 [19 favorites]
Gemma reacting to an outfit of clothing as "this is the one where my mouth hurts after" is pretty awful.
The "always Christmas" innie (where Edmund Fitzgerald DDS is playing Happy Families with Gemma) seems the most *like* Gemma - not far off from her outie's personality.
The four people monitoring our four innies looked very much like each of them in turn, and I wonder if they were the doppelgangers in Woe's Hollow.
Also - hey, Sandra Bernhard, nice to see you!
posted by tzikeh at 9:22 PM on February 27 [19 favorites]
While Gemma was in the dentist room I thought they were changing her teeth so that she wouldn’t be a match for her own real-world dental records. But, like, one tooth at a time so she doesn’t notice/put it together.
posted by janell at 9:25 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by janell at 9:25 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
My read was that the testing floor, where Gemma is, is for severance testing - as in, subjecting a severed person in an "innie" state to various extremely emotional and outie-memory-related situations (things with images/phrases/music that should evoke strong reactions due to their association with particular situations from the person's past) to make sure the severance holds.
posted by nightcoast at 9:26 PM on February 27 [13 favorites]
posted by nightcoast at 9:26 PM on February 27 [13 favorites]
janell: While Gemma was in the dentist room I thought they were changing her teeth so that she wouldn’t be a match for her own real-world dental records. But, like, one tooth at a time so she doesn’t notice/put it together.
I would think after two years they'd be well finished, if that's the case.
posted by tzikeh at 9:31 PM on February 27
I would think after two years they'd be well finished, if that's the case.
posted by tzikeh at 9:31 PM on February 27
* Cairn - dentist
Cairns was not visited. The dentist was Wellington.
Also note the only time dentistboy whistled that damn tune was when he was dentisting - not at other times.
My read was that the testing floor, where Gemma is, is for severance testing - as in, subjecting a severed person in an "innie" state
Slight, but significant variance - Gemma has multiple innie personalities. Every time she goes through the door she's a different innie (specific to that door).
We've not seen that before.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:33 PM on February 27 [21 favorites]
Cairns was not visited. The dentist was Wellington.
Also note the only time dentistboy whistled that damn tune was when he was dentisting - not at other times.
My read was that the testing floor, where Gemma is, is for severance testing - as in, subjecting a severed person in an "innie" state
Slight, but significant variance - Gemma has multiple innie personalities. Every time she goes through the door she's a different innie (specific to that door).
We've not seen that before.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:33 PM on February 27 [21 favorites]
janell: While Gemma was in the dentist room I thought they were changing her teeth so that she wouldn’t be a match for her own real-world dental records. But, like, one tooth at a time so she doesn’t notice/put it together.
tzikeh: I would think after two years they'd be well finished, if that's the case.
If she's only seeing the dentist every 6 weeks, after two years that's 16-17 visits. At a tooth a visit she's got another two years to go
posted by coriolisdave at 9:35 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
tzikeh: I would think after two years they'd be well finished, if that's the case.
If she's only seeing the dentist every 6 weeks, after two years that's 16-17 visits. At a tooth a visit she's got another two years to go
posted by coriolisdave at 9:35 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
Yes, definitely agreed, coriolisdave. Each room corresponds to a single memory, and gets its own innie, and corresponds to a macrodata file, each of which gets worked on exclusively by a single macrodata refiner, who has to finish the file before the room can be accessed (at least that was my read on Cold Harbor - she hasn't been able to access it yet and Mark's still only at 96%; but of course it might excpetional in some way). Definitely way more invasive than a single innie, basically treating her like an animal for cosmetics testing.
posted by nightcoast at 9:38 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
posted by nightcoast at 9:38 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
We know from the before times that Gemma hates writing thank you notes. I presume each room is a particular fear or trauma for her specifically. And yes, I think it’s right that she fears drowning and Cold Harbor is building to that. This is awful. So stressful.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:39 PM on February 27 [9 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 9:39 PM on February 27 [9 favorites]
My question then is Ms. Casey just a Harmony Cobel wild idea to have her come and do extra-strength testing with Mark to really make sure they can't remember each other (but secretly Harmony did want them to remember each other)? Or is Ms. Casey a new Lumon-compliant outie form they are trying to construct?
posted by nightcoast at 9:40 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by nightcoast at 9:40 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
And bluedaisy, that makes sense about the drowning and is so grim. Oof.
posted by nightcoast at 9:45 PM on February 27
posted by nightcoast at 9:45 PM on February 27
Loved this episode. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the stark contrast of Gemma and Mark's relationship unfolding in what seems like a lush always-summer (all the plants, the sun shining, the loud insects during their meal with Devon and Ricken) with the always-winter of the present day.
(Also, I thought they did an incredible job of capturing the intense emotional rollercoaster of trying to get pregnant, getting pregnant, losing the pregnancy, and eventually deciding to move on to more interventions, having unfortunately gone down that same path myself - though thankfully with happier results.)
posted by Synesthesia at 9:54 PM on February 27 [24 favorites]
(Also, I thought they did an incredible job of capturing the intense emotional rollercoaster of trying to get pregnant, getting pregnant, losing the pregnancy, and eventually deciding to move on to more interventions, having unfortunately gone down that same path myself - though thankfully with happier results.)
posted by Synesthesia at 9:54 PM on February 27 [24 favorites]
nightcoast: "My read was that the testing floor, where Gemma is, is for severance testing - as in, subjecting a severed person in an "innie" state to various extremely emotional and outie-memory-related situations (things with images/phrases/music that should evoke strong reactions due to their association with particular situations from the person's past) to make sure the severance holds."
I mean, maybe that's part of it? But the testing floor is for testing actual commercial applications for severance.
Just as we got callbacks to the woman who used severance for childbirth… these are other examples of things people might want to use severance for. Offload anxiety-causing situations (dentist's visits, air travel) or drudgery (filling out thank-you cards) to your innie!
I'm sure there's other stuff going on as well — with Cold Harbor being the obvious tease — but they're testing carrots they can use to get people to buy into severance as a concept.
For whatever reason, it requires control of the outie, so it can't just be an ordinary severed employee. It's Gemma before she goes into each room, then Miss Casey when she's inside of each room. (I wonder which one would feel more like torture. At least Miss Casey gets to do a diverse range of stressful activities?)
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:13 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
I mean, maybe that's part of it? But the testing floor is for testing actual commercial applications for severance.
Just as we got callbacks to the woman who used severance for childbirth… these are other examples of things people might want to use severance for. Offload anxiety-causing situations (dentist's visits, air travel) or drudgery (filling out thank-you cards) to your innie!
I'm sure there's other stuff going on as well — with Cold Harbor being the obvious tease — but they're testing carrots they can use to get people to buy into severance as a concept.
For whatever reason, it requires control of the outie, so it can't just be an ordinary severed employee. It's Gemma before she goes into each room, then Miss Casey when she's inside of each room. (I wonder which one would feel more like torture. At least Miss Casey gets to do a diverse range of stressful activities?)
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:13 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the stark contrast of Gemma and Mark's relationship unfolding in what seems like a lush always-summer (all the plants, the sun shining, the loud insects during their meal with Devon and Ricken) with the always-winter of the present day.
Agreed. Mark's world before severance was abundant. The college quad is teeming with people, their offices and home are cluttered with books and art and all kinds of things, the dinner with Mark and Gemma and Devon and Ricken has food and wine. Mark's world after severance is sparse. Empty. Cold.
Almost makes me wonder if one or the other (or both) is more colored by Mark's perception than objective reality.
The only other place I can remember that felt at all like those flashbacks was Burt and Fields' place, with decor and food everywhere, though that may not be intentional.
posted by brentajones at 10:15 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
Agreed. Mark's world before severance was abundant. The college quad is teeming with people, their offices and home are cluttered with books and art and all kinds of things, the dinner with Mark and Gemma and Devon and Ricken has food and wine. Mark's world after severance is sparse. Empty. Cold.
Almost makes me wonder if one or the other (or both) is more colored by Mark's perception than objective reality.
The only other place I can remember that felt at all like those flashbacks was Burt and Fields' place, with decor and food everywhere, though that may not be intentional.
posted by brentajones at 10:15 PM on February 27 [10 favorites]
Synesthesia: "Loved this episode. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the stark contrast of Gemma and Mark's relationship unfolding in what seems like a lush always-summer (all the plants, the sun shining, the loud insects during their meal with Devon and Ricken) with the always-winter of the present day."
I felt like this was a bit of an Eternal Sunshine thing. The memories you have of your dead-but-not-really-dead wife always feel bathed in nostalgic glow in the sunshine of May living in your magazine-cover-beautiful house without any window coverings.
It doesn't quite turn to winter once things get sad, but those over-the-top depictions stop and we get way more night scenes.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:18 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
I felt like this was a bit of an Eternal Sunshine thing. The memories you have of your dead-but-not-really-dead wife always feel bathed in nostalgic glow in the sunshine of May living in your magazine-cover-beautiful house without any window coverings.
It doesn't quite turn to winter once things get sad, but those over-the-top depictions stop and we get way more night scenes.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:18 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
They're going to actually kill Gemma in Cold Harbor to confirm that you can outsource your death to an innie. I hope Mark and MDR can burn in all down before that but that's where I think we're going.
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:30 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:30 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Look, if this show kills Gemma, it will be very difficult for me to continue watching the show.
posted by Pendragon at 10:39 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 10:39 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
Yeah. I'm going back and forth on if this is the sort of show that would actually do that. Maybe it will just be a really good simulation and sweater guy won't see innie Gemma because her testing is done?
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:55 PM on February 27
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:55 PM on February 27
Every time she goes through the door she's a different innie (specific to that door).
We've not seen that before.
But it had been hypothesized.
posted by pwnguin at 11:54 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
We've not seen that before.
But it had been hypothesized.
posted by pwnguin at 11:54 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
The absolute horror of being an innie who spends their entire life at the dentist.
posted by simonw at 12:50 AM on February 28 [16 favorites]
posted by simonw at 12:50 AM on February 28 [16 favorites]
I think I see the through-line connecting the horrors of this technology with the protagonist’s arc. Mark pursued severance as a way to avoid an unpleasant experience — although in a way opposite to the birthing cabins: his outie is like those innies, inhabiting grief, and the innie is the one spared. At least on one level of analysis, I think the show is a horror story about why we shouldn’t compartmentalize our feelings as a way to avoid them. Like a morality play promoting ACT. We already knew that a successful arc for Mark would mean reintegration, but now that we know what severance is for, I see why.
(I think it also still works as a morality play on why capitalist exploitation is bad! That just doesn’t tie as neatly into what Mark is going through.)
It was like a breath of fresh air seeing Gemma as herself, in the before times — without the terrifying blankness of Ms. Casey. And Mark too! I thought Adam Scott did an incredible job of gearing into reverse to show us who Mark Scout would have been before the grief — still a little sarcastic bite to him, but in a life-affirming way. The warping done to him by grief feels so real, so believable.
The teasing of Cobel makes me wonder: how does she fit into this, with her weird fixation on whether Mark and Gemma remembered each other? All the theories about reanimating the dead made it seem like there could be a tie to a grief in her life, whoever is represented by that vent tubing she took with her when she briefly tried to flee. But the true purpose, the invention of a way for humans to offload their suffering onto people they don’t have to care about, it’s not clear how she fits in there. I imagine it will become clearer.
posted by eirias at 3:57 AM on February 28 [5 favorites]
(I think it also still works as a morality play on why capitalist exploitation is bad! That just doesn’t tie as neatly into what Mark is going through.)
It was like a breath of fresh air seeing Gemma as herself, in the before times — without the terrifying blankness of Ms. Casey. And Mark too! I thought Adam Scott did an incredible job of gearing into reverse to show us who Mark Scout would have been before the grief — still a little sarcastic bite to him, but in a life-affirming way. The warping done to him by grief feels so real, so believable.
The teasing of Cobel makes me wonder: how does she fit into this, with her weird fixation on whether Mark and Gemma remembered each other? All the theories about reanimating the dead made it seem like there could be a tie to a grief in her life, whoever is represented by that vent tubing she took with her when she briefly tried to flee. But the true purpose, the invention of a way for humans to offload their suffering onto people they don’t have to care about, it’s not clear how she fits in there. I imagine it will become clearer.
posted by eirias at 3:57 AM on February 28 [5 favorites]
I keep thinking about how it feels like the fact that Mark’s last words to Gemma were “I love you too, and I’m sorry” were deliberately chosen in some way that will become devastatingly clear, say, next season
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:55 AM on February 28 [3 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:55 AM on February 28 [3 favorites]
They're going to actually kill Gemma in Cold Harbor to confirm that you can outsource your death to an innie. I hope Mark and MDR can burn in all down before that but that's where I think we're going.
I've been thinking about this and while it makes sense on the surface I can't quite figure out what the point would be. Like, the innie dies and then…what? What's supposed to happen, from the outie's perspective? The outie is presumably aware of their own mortality.
They can't know their innie will die if they go in the door, because then fear of death becomes fear of going in the door — going in the door equals death (if they know that's what's going to happen when they're in there). And if they don't know they'll die when they go in the room, then they just don't come back out. I'd think it can't be just an experiment to find out what happens when an innie dies, because it seems like that must have happened somewhere on the severed floor before.
Maybe the innie experiences death, but their outie survives somehow? Maybe it's a near-death experience, and the testing is that the outie won't even remember that (the other rooms we've seen are fears or phobias, but not life-threatening)? Maybe the innie experiences the death of someone else?
I just can't quite figure out what the point of "the innie dies" would be. But the writers are smarter than I am, and so far I trust them. So I suppose we'll find out (or maybe we won't).
posted by brentajones at 6:24 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking about this and while it makes sense on the surface I can't quite figure out what the point would be. Like, the innie dies and then…what? What's supposed to happen, from the outie's perspective? The outie is presumably aware of their own mortality.
They can't know their innie will die if they go in the door, because then fear of death becomes fear of going in the door — going in the door equals death (if they know that's what's going to happen when they're in there). And if they don't know they'll die when they go in the room, then they just don't come back out. I'd think it can't be just an experiment to find out what happens when an innie dies, because it seems like that must have happened somewhere on the severed floor before.
Maybe the innie experiences death, but their outie survives somehow? Maybe it's a near-death experience, and the testing is that the outie won't even remember that (the other rooms we've seen are fears or phobias, but not life-threatening)? Maybe the innie experiences the death of someone else?
I just can't quite figure out what the point of "the innie dies" would be. But the writers are smarter than I am, and so far I trust them. So I suppose we'll find out (or maybe we won't).
posted by brentajones at 6:24 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
The scene where Drummond and the Doctor are watching Gemma walk down the corridor, to the door that would open into her OB/GYN, in that blue sleeveless jumpsuit with the white stripes made me remember the scene of Helena walking down the glass corridor in that beautiful sleeveless gown with the stripes, to the boardroom to meet Corbel and Drummond in S202. And I could have swore that Lachman even copied her gait. I'm almost positive that it was on purpose.
posted by Stanczyk at 6:51 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Stanczyk at 6:51 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
Was Burt former creepy doctor guy? Was Irving former lab rat?
posted by 10ch at 7:10 AM on February 28 [4 favorites]
posted by 10ch at 7:10 AM on February 28 [4 favorites]
It's Gemma before she goes into each room, then Miss Casey when she's inside of each room. (I wonder which one would feel more like torture. At least Miss Casey gets to do a diverse range of stressful activities?)
That's not Miss Casey in those rooms - that's different innies. She only became Miss Casey in this episode when she took the elevator to the Severed floor, because she's Miss Casey *there*. The woman writing thank-you notes was not the same innie as the woman at the dentist, who was not the same woman as the woman on the plane, etc.
posted by tzikeh at 7:22 AM on February 28 [13 favorites]
That's not Miss Casey in those rooms - that's different innies. She only became Miss Casey in this episode when she took the elevator to the Severed floor, because she's Miss Casey *there*. The woman writing thank-you notes was not the same innie as the woman at the dentist, who was not the same woman as the woman on the plane, etc.
posted by tzikeh at 7:22 AM on February 28 [13 favorites]
But why is one of the innies Ms Casey? What purpose does that serve?
posted by applesurf at 7:24 AM on February 28
posted by applesurf at 7:24 AM on February 28
Testing if severed innies can remember a connection between their outie selves.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:33 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 7:33 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
But why is one of the innies Ms Casey? What purpose does that serve?
Security. Ms. Casey is the moat - as we saw, Gemma cannot escape, because the only way out is through the severed floor, and she turns into Ms Casey there.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:47 AM on February 28 [24 favorites]
Security. Ms. Casey is the moat - as we saw, Gemma cannot escape, because the only way out is through the severed floor, and she turns into Ms Casey there.
This made me realize that Gemma/Ms. Casey's testing floor elevator experience potentially means that if Mark or any of the other refiners take the elevator to the testing floor, they would become their outies when they get there, if the elevator works the same way for them.
posted by brentajones at 8:02 AM on February 28 [21 favorites]
This made me realize that Gemma/Ms. Casey's testing floor elevator experience potentially means that if Mark or any of the other refiners take the elevator to the testing floor, they would become their outies when they get there, if the elevator works the same way for them.
posted by brentajones at 8:02 AM on February 28 [21 favorites]
But why is one of the innies Ms Casey? What purpose does that serve?
Possibly an innie created at Cobel's direction specifically to interact with the Severed floor once Mark came onboard? We do have that scene in the first season where Cobel has set up Mark's wellness check with the candle brought from his home that had belonged to Gemma, and we see her watching them together while Milchick says something about how it's a good thing they don't recognize one another because it means the procedure works. But (I'd have to go back and find the scene again) there's something on Cobel's face that's about more than the procedure, I think.
posted by tzikeh at 8:21 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Possibly an innie created at Cobel's direction specifically to interact with the Severed floor once Mark came onboard? We do have that scene in the first season where Cobel has set up Mark's wellness check with the candle brought from his home that had belonged to Gemma, and we see her watching them together while Milchick says something about how it's a good thing they don't recognize one another because it means the procedure works. But (I'd have to go back and find the scene again) there's something on Cobel's face that's about more than the procedure, I think.
posted by tzikeh at 8:21 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Maybe they are not even doing any real dental work, just painfully poking around to test Severance.
Really curious about how rebellious Gemma was after they kidnapped her; I imagine it would have been quite a Break Room or equivalent process to get her to cooperate to the degree that we are seeing at the beginning of the episode. Obviously, all the anger was just pushed down just waiting for the right moment to be unleashed and bash someone with a chair.
Also less important in the grand scheme of the plot, but I'm wondering how deep the company town compliance/corruption goes. Did they even have to have a fake body for the car accident, or did they just crash the empty car into a tree and tell the cops what to report?
posted by mikepop at 8:41 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Really curious about how rebellious Gemma was after they kidnapped her; I imagine it would have been quite a Break Room or equivalent process to get her to cooperate to the degree that we are seeing at the beginning of the episode. Obviously, all the anger was just pushed down just waiting for the right moment to be unleashed and bash someone with a chair.
Also less important in the grand scheme of the plot, but I'm wondering how deep the company town compliance/corruption goes. Did they even have to have a fake body for the car accident, or did they just crash the empty car into a tree and tell the cops what to report?
posted by mikepop at 8:41 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
I just can't quite figure out what the point of "the innie dies" would be. But the writers are smarter than I am, and so far I trust them.
I've been mulling things over since watching this episode last night (which was fucking haunting), and I think what's going on is Lumon is going to try to sell Severance as a way of avoiding all potentially traumatic & unpleasant events. Outsourcing them.
Don't like your job? Sever, and let your innie work all day while you only enjoy life outside of work. Hate visiting the Dentist? Sever, and let your innie go there. Writing thank you cards? Same thing. Giving birth. Avoiding dealing with your grief. Fear of flying. And so on.
I think Cold Harbor is going to be an attempt to use Severance to deal with traumatic accidents and/or traumatic death; figuring out some way to trigger it at the right moment so that the person doesn't experience it, their "innie" does. Because they aren't people.
Burt is trying to get into heaven by outsourcing some innocence via his innie; Lumon wants to outsource everything disagreeable and difficult.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on February 28 [9 favorites]
I've been mulling things over since watching this episode last night (which was fucking haunting), and I think what's going on is Lumon is going to try to sell Severance as a way of avoiding all potentially traumatic & unpleasant events. Outsourcing them.
Don't like your job? Sever, and let your innie work all day while you only enjoy life outside of work. Hate visiting the Dentist? Sever, and let your innie go there. Writing thank you cards? Same thing. Giving birth. Avoiding dealing with your grief. Fear of flying. And so on.
I think Cold Harbor is going to be an attempt to use Severance to deal with traumatic accidents and/or traumatic death; figuring out some way to trigger it at the right moment so that the person doesn't experience it, their "innie" does. Because they aren't people.
Burt is trying to get into heaven by outsourcing some innocence via his innie; Lumon wants to outsource everything disagreeable and difficult.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on February 28 [9 favorites]
Honestly I think Lumon could get 75% Severance buy-in based on dentist visits and air travel alone.
posted by mikepop at 8:45 AM on February 28 [5 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 8:45 AM on February 28 [5 favorites]
The trick would be getting the innies to cooperate. Although I guess they could just go full torture and activate the severance after strapping the person to the dental chair / airplane seat.
I guess there are limitations on the technology that prevent severance from being a kind of "perfect retrograde amensia", where you go into the experience the same person you were, but then completely forget it afterward.
I wonder if one of the testing floor room's isn't outright torture just mind-numbingly dull, like waiting at a simulated DMV.
It occurs to me that, in some ways, Severance is a modern, fully-realized horror take on Peter and the Magic Thread (which, incidentally, is suspected to have inspired the Adam Sandler movie Click).
posted by jedicus at 9:04 AM on February 28 [3 favorites]
I guess there are limitations on the technology that prevent severance from being a kind of "perfect retrograde amensia", where you go into the experience the same person you were, but then completely forget it afterward.
I wonder if one of the testing floor room's isn't outright torture just mind-numbingly dull, like waiting at a simulated DMV.
It occurs to me that, in some ways, Severance is a modern, fully-realized horror take on Peter and the Magic Thread (which, incidentally, is suspected to have inspired the Adam Sandler movie Click).
posted by jedicus at 9:04 AM on February 28 [3 favorites]
Mark’s last words to Gemma were “I love you too, and I’m sorry” were deliberately chosen in some way that will become devastatingly clear
Give that we now know that Gemma was alive when Mark started drinking, I think he didn't exactly tell the whole story when he told Petey his wife died in a car accident. It seems likely he was driving. And combining the intro sequence showing a car in a frozen lake / river, with Gemma's stated fear of drowning, I think she either died or was in critical condition when Lumon took her.
It's unclear whether he faced any consequences for it other than his own survivor's guilt; the dream sequence shows two cops at his door which he hesitates to open but we don't see if they arrested him or just give the "we need you at the coroner's office to identify a body" speech.
posted by pwnguin at 9:10 AM on February 28
Give that we now know that Gemma was alive when Mark started drinking, I think he didn't exactly tell the whole story when he told Petey his wife died in a car accident. It seems likely he was driving. And combining the intro sequence showing a car in a frozen lake / river, with Gemma's stated fear of drowning, I think she either died or was in critical condition when Lumon took her.
It's unclear whether he faced any consequences for it other than his own survivor's guilt; the dream sequence shows two cops at his door which he hesitates to open but we don't see if they arrested him or just give the "we need you at the coroner's office to identify a body" speech.
posted by pwnguin at 9:10 AM on February 28
the dream sequence shows two cops at his door which he hesitates to open but we don't see if they arrested him or just give the "we need you at the coroner's office to identify a body" speech.
Unless that sequence was some level of false memory, Gemma went out alone that evening while Mark stayed home to work on something that had a deadline. So I don't think he was driving the car; I think he stayed at home to (a) avoid a social gathering he wasn't too excited about and (b) get some work done.
I suspect Lumon pulled her from the car while she was drowning; I would love to know what story they've told her about where she is and why. But it does make me think that the Cold Harbor moment will be putting Gemma back in that moment of drowning...and perhaps the doctor and Mark fighting outside the door to see who gets to save her.
posted by nubs at 9:17 AM on February 28 [10 favorites]
Unless that sequence was some level of false memory, Gemma went out alone that evening while Mark stayed home to work on something that had a deadline. So I don't think he was driving the car; I think he stayed at home to (a) avoid a social gathering he wasn't too excited about and (b) get some work done.
I suspect Lumon pulled her from the car while she was drowning; I would love to know what story they've told her about where she is and why. But it does make me think that the Cold Harbor moment will be putting Gemma back in that moment of drowning...and perhaps the doctor and Mark fighting outside the door to see who gets to save her.
posted by nubs at 9:17 AM on February 28 [10 favorites]
Give that we now know that Gemma was alive when Mark started drinking, I think he didn't exactly tell the whole story when he told Petey his wife died in a car accident. It seems likely he was driving.
What? We saw her leave and say she'd be back around 10 while he stayed home, and then later the two police came to Mark's house. How do you get "Mark was driving" from that?
posted by tzikeh at 10:37 AM on February 28 [22 favorites]
What? We saw her leave and say she'd be back around 10 while he stayed home, and then later the two police came to Mark's house. How do you get "Mark was driving" from that?
posted by tzikeh at 10:37 AM on February 28 [22 favorites]
If this "outsource all of your pain and boredom" is really the plan, wouldn't that make the outie's life significantly shorter than normal, in terms of how much they'd experience it? They'd still need the same amount of sleep regardless of who was "in charge" of their body during the day, but take away work (even though the idea of it is delightful), medical appointments, chores, any part of traveling that's annoying or boring, any time you'd have to do anything boring -- it's really whittling away at your experienced existence.
posted by tzikeh at 10:41 AM on February 28
posted by tzikeh at 10:41 AM on February 28
I keep going back to the Doctor's question about what room caused the pain. It seems a big part of his research and really a lot of the whole season, is about bleedthrough. How much that happens in a severed state, stays in the severed state. What are the pain tolerances before it starts to bleed through? What are the psychological tolerances before it starts to bleed through?
posted by Stanczyk at 10:48 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Stanczyk at 10:48 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]
The supervising people on this hidden floor were not saying “praise Kier”, but rather, “for Kier”, which fits in with the reanimated Eagan theory.
Perhaps, like in the SF classic about cloning “40,000 in Gehenna”, the experiences in the rooms recreate an experience the original had, thus priming the innie to respond in the same way. I think this is a more logical plotline than “finding things to do with your innie” because they’ve already shown uses for the innie, and there’s only Gemma on the testing floor. Gemma is valuable. Valuable enough for her to be kidnapped, held against her will, and brainwashed.
posted by The River Ivel at 11:02 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Perhaps, like in the SF classic about cloning “40,000 in Gehenna”, the experiences in the rooms recreate an experience the original had, thus priming the innie to respond in the same way. I think this is a more logical plotline than “finding things to do with your innie” because they’ve already shown uses for the innie, and there’s only Gemma on the testing floor. Gemma is valuable. Valuable enough for her to be kidnapped, held against her will, and brainwashed.
posted by The River Ivel at 11:02 AM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Wowie wow, what a performance from Dichen Lachman.
I was totally unspoiled on Sandra Bernhard's casting so that was a fun surprise, too.
I'm happy to discover that whatever is happening on the testing floor has very specifically to do with severance. Seems obvious in retrospect (it is the name of the show, after all), but so many fan theories were about...other things. I did like how they had a split-second fake-out where current-day outie Gemma was so still that she may have been in some kind of suspended animation. Also it was the Sepinwall review of this episode that reminded me that Lachman's previous series Dollhouse (spoilers for a 15-year-old FOX show that never finished airing and was made by a horrible creep) had the twist that the technology was really developed for rich people to live forever in other people's bodies. It would be super weird for this series to go back to that well.
My mind swirls with all the intersecting themes. The two betta fish who would fight if they shared a tank, the two Marks reintegrating in his mind, the two men on the card being interpreted by Gemma as one man fighting his own self/ego, relating that to Chikhai Bardo, which has something to do with one's consciouness being freed of the body during death, we've got allusions to Hades and Persephone, Orpheus and Eurydice walking into and out of the afterlife, we've got Fields and Bert's theories about heaven/hell and the innies' innocence, the innies on the severed floor being treated like children, Cobel screaming "you child!" at Mark, Milchick yelling "grow up!" at his own reflection . . . it's just so rich.
Casting Robby Benson to fall in love with the woman he keeps captive? Funny.
Also, speaking of related works made by horrible creeps, lil Rosemary's Baby vibes with the fertility doctor's office seeming to be part of entrapping Gemma.
Ms. Casey turning back around at Milchick's instructions such that Gemma finds herself back in the elevator is a clever inversion of Helly and Helena going in and out the stairwell door in season one.
Most of the rooms we see are very common fears among all people, like the dentist and flying/turbulence. The Christmas one seems more specific to Gemma--we learn that Gemma hates writing thank you notes, whereas most people probably would not consider it an aversion worth getting brain surgery to avoid. Unknown if they ALL are hand-picked for Gemma or if they are doing more of a sampling of broad and specific.
Absolutely wild to say drowning is more scary than suffocating, but in the case of a mudslide, seems like a distinction without a difference.
Also, the doctor's exact words when Gemma asks what happens after she's been in all the rooms, Cold Harbor being the one remaining: "You will see the world again, and the world will see you." I don't have an interpretation of this, but the wording is interesting.
posted by lampoil at 11:38 AM on February 28 [12 favorites]
I was totally unspoiled on Sandra Bernhard's casting so that was a fun surprise, too.
I'm happy to discover that whatever is happening on the testing floor has very specifically to do with severance. Seems obvious in retrospect (it is the name of the show, after all), but so many fan theories were about...other things. I did like how they had a split-second fake-out where current-day outie Gemma was so still that she may have been in some kind of suspended animation. Also it was the Sepinwall review of this episode that reminded me that Lachman's previous series Dollhouse (spoilers for a 15-year-old FOX show that never finished airing and was made by a horrible creep) had the twist that the technology was really developed for rich people to live forever in other people's bodies. It would be super weird for this series to go back to that well.
My mind swirls with all the intersecting themes. The two betta fish who would fight if they shared a tank, the two Marks reintegrating in his mind, the two men on the card being interpreted by Gemma as one man fighting his own self/ego, relating that to Chikhai Bardo, which has something to do with one's consciouness being freed of the body during death, we've got allusions to Hades and Persephone, Orpheus and Eurydice walking into and out of the afterlife, we've got Fields and Bert's theories about heaven/hell and the innies' innocence, the innies on the severed floor being treated like children, Cobel screaming "you child!" at Mark, Milchick yelling "grow up!" at his own reflection . . . it's just so rich.
Casting Robby Benson to fall in love with the woman he keeps captive? Funny.
Also, speaking of related works made by horrible creeps, lil Rosemary's Baby vibes with the fertility doctor's office seeming to be part of entrapping Gemma.
Ms. Casey turning back around at Milchick's instructions such that Gemma finds herself back in the elevator is a clever inversion of Helly and Helena going in and out the stairwell door in season one.
Most of the rooms we see are very common fears among all people, like the dentist and flying/turbulence. The Christmas one seems more specific to Gemma--we learn that Gemma hates writing thank you notes, whereas most people probably would not consider it an aversion worth getting brain surgery to avoid. Unknown if they ALL are hand-picked for Gemma or if they are doing more of a sampling of broad and specific.
Absolutely wild to say drowning is more scary than suffocating, but in the case of a mudslide, seems like a distinction without a difference.
Also, the doctor's exact words when Gemma asks what happens after she's been in all the rooms, Cold Harbor being the one remaining: "You will see the world again, and the world will see you." I don't have an interpretation of this, but the wording is interesting.
posted by lampoil at 11:38 AM on February 28 [12 favorites]
The Gemma innie at the dentist said, "I was just here," and the Gemma innie writing thank you notes at Christmas said, "It's always Christmas," so it's clear that these are different innies who only exist in these rooms. And forgive me for bringing up the work of a transphobic writer, but it reminded me a bit of how Voldemort did too many horcruxes or whatever -- how many innies can one outie have?
I also note that Gemma's last normal interaction with Mark had her waiting/badgering him to say "I love you" back and the Christmas sweater guy had to badger Gemma to say "I love you" back to him.
Also, what's up with the gross subplot of the Christmas sweater guy being in love with Gemma, or whatever Drummond said. Ick. It's like Harmony being in love with Mark, maybe?
Also, Reghabi told Devon that Harmony was "raised by Lumon" and is a "soldier." Did she really grow up with them? Perhaps like the guy in the sweater?
Do we know for sure that Devon didn't call Harmony? Or is she in the house when Mark wakes up? I can't remember if we know either way.
I'm also at the point that I was trying to figure out if Harmony Cobel and Cold Harbor are anagrams. (They are not.)
posted by bluedaisy at 11:48 AM on February 28 [4 favorites]
I also note that Gemma's last normal interaction with Mark had her waiting/badgering him to say "I love you" back and the Christmas sweater guy had to badger Gemma to say "I love you" back to him.
Also, what's up with the gross subplot of the Christmas sweater guy being in love with Gemma, or whatever Drummond said. Ick. It's like Harmony being in love with Mark, maybe?
Also, Reghabi told Devon that Harmony was "raised by Lumon" and is a "soldier." Did she really grow up with them? Perhaps like the guy in the sweater?
Do we know for sure that Devon didn't call Harmony? Or is she in the house when Mark wakes up? I can't remember if we know either way.
I'm also at the point that I was trying to figure out if Harmony Cobel and Cold Harbor are anagrams. (They are not.)
posted by bluedaisy at 11:48 AM on February 28 [4 favorites]
from [https://wayfaringbritain.com/coldharbour] What is Coldharbour?
Coldharbour is a very ancient British tradition of Wayfaring accommodation for people without silver coins for the inn, or for whom the city gates had already closed.
Locations for such a purpose were once well-known and shared by Wayfarers. These common sleep-spots were called Coldharbour (lane, farm or hill), and they can be found all over the UK. Though these places no longer serve as active Coldharbours, the name marks the extent of a once widespread tradition.
posted by aesop at 12:01 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
Coldharbour is a very ancient British tradition of Wayfaring accommodation for people without silver coins for the inn, or for whom the city gates had already closed.
Locations for such a purpose were once well-known and shared by Wayfarers. These common sleep-spots were called Coldharbour (lane, farm or hill), and they can be found all over the UK. Though these places no longer serve as active Coldharbours, the name marks the extent of a once widespread tradition.
posted by aesop at 12:01 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
Also, speaking of related works made by horrible creeps, lil Rosemary's Baby vibes with the fertility doctor's office seeming to be part of entrapping Gemma.
There's only a quick glimpse, but I'm pretty sure we see Dr. Mauer (the creepy doc who is now seemingly obsessed with Gemma) in the fertility clinic. The place is most likely some type of Lumon front...
Do we know for sure that Devon didn't call Harmony? Or is she in the house when Mark wakes up? I can't remember if we know either way.
We don't. I'm not even 100% sure Reghabi left; she was heading to the door when Mark started to come around, I think. There was so much going on in this episode, so much to think about, that some things might have flown by.
And... "All Quiet on the Western Blunt" had me giggling.
posted by nubs at 12:02 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
There's only a quick glimpse, but I'm pretty sure we see Dr. Mauer (the creepy doc who is now seemingly obsessed with Gemma) in the fertility clinic. The place is most likely some type of Lumon front...
Do we know for sure that Devon didn't call Harmony? Or is she in the house when Mark wakes up? I can't remember if we know either way.
We don't. I'm not even 100% sure Reghabi left; she was heading to the door when Mark started to come around, I think. There was so much going on in this episode, so much to think about, that some things might have flown by.
And... "All Quiet on the Western Blunt" had me giggling.
posted by nubs at 12:02 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
What? We saw her leave and say she'd be back around 10 while he stayed home, and then later the two police came to Mark's house. How do you get "Mark was driving" from that?
I didn't. I found the dream sequences kind of hard to follow, and didn't realize their "I love you" conversation was the night she died. Probably I shouldn't watch this show at midnight after a day's work and a mentally exhausting Thursday board game night 😞
posted by pwnguin at 12:03 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
I didn't. I found the dream sequences kind of hard to follow, and didn't realize their "I love you" conversation was the night she died. Probably I shouldn't watch this show at midnight after a day's work and a mentally exhausting Thursday board game night 😞
posted by pwnguin at 12:03 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
Ah, but ... horror episode.
Yes; they're torturing Gemma down there. Are any of the rooms pleasant experiences? The three we see are certainly not, so I'm guessing no; which makes Gemma telling Doctor Mauer that she'd visited six rooms that day even more horrifying.
The "mudslide" therapy/interrogation scene, the interviewer asking questions and watching the needles on the meters on the responses: very much an allusion to Scientology's process of auditing, I thought.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:06 PM on February 28 [13 favorites]
Yes; they're torturing Gemma down there. Are any of the rooms pleasant experiences? The three we see are certainly not, so I'm guessing no; which makes Gemma telling Doctor Mauer that she'd visited six rooms that day even more horrifying.
The "mudslide" therapy/interrogation scene, the interviewer asking questions and watching the needles on the meters on the responses: very much an allusion to Scientology's process of auditing, I thought.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:06 PM on February 28 [13 favorites]
> Perhaps, like in the SF classic about cloning “40,000 in Gehenna”, the experiences in the rooms recreate an experience the original had, thus priming the innie to respond in the same way.
This was my read too - but it implies that the ultimate goal is to reintegrate all of Gemma's innies to composite them into one Eagan, which is an interesting break with the Board's statement that reintegration is impossible (we know it is possible but IIRC don't know that the Board does?)
posted by GenericUser at 12:17 PM on February 28
This was my read too - but it implies that the ultimate goal is to reintegrate all of Gemma's innies to composite them into one Eagan, which is an interesting break with the Board's statement that reintegration is impossible (we know it is possible but IIRC don't know that the Board does?)
posted by GenericUser at 12:17 PM on February 28
the Board's statement that reintegration is impossible
My take was the board does not want to acknowledge that reintegration is possible. Possibly because Kier does not want to be reintegrated with Dieter? Or because it would be devastating to their product line if it could be undone.
posted by pwnguin at 12:26 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
My take was the board does not want to acknowledge that reintegration is possible. Possibly because Kier does not want to be reintegrated with Dieter? Or because it would be devastating to their product line if it could be undone.
posted by pwnguin at 12:26 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Pulling a comment from way way above:
If she's only seeing the dentist every 6 weeks, after two years that's 16-17 visits.
We have only dentist-Mauer's word for it being 6 weeks since her last visit, and we have absolutely no reason to believe him.
How many rooms are there total on the testing floor? And Gemma's visiting multiple rooms every day. She could be rotating into Wellington much more frequently than Mauer tells her Wellington-innie she is.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:59 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
If she's only seeing the dentist every 6 weeks, after two years that's 16-17 visits.
We have only dentist-Mauer's word for it being 6 weeks since her last visit, and we have absolutely no reason to believe him.
How many rooms are there total on the testing floor? And Gemma's visiting multiple rooms every day. She could be rotating into Wellington much more frequently than Mauer tells her Wellington-innie she is.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:59 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
Also, Reghabi told Devon that Harmony was "raised by Lumon" and is a "soldier." Did she really grow up with them?
Harmony Cobel went to the Myrtle Eagan School for Girls, which is pretty likely to be an indoctrination in the ways of Kier.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:04 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
Harmony Cobel went to the Myrtle Eagan School for Girls, which is pretty likely to be an indoctrination in the ways of Kier.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:04 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
I think this is a more logical plotline than “finding things to do with your innie” because they’ve already shown uses for the innie, and there’s only Gemma on the testing floor.
Lumon is testing extremely personal dislikes, fears and trauma for bleed-through, not finding things to do with one's innie. They want to be able to market Severance as an highly effective way to avoid things a person doesn't like, from minor annoyances all the way to fears of dying. She's not brainwashed, and we see no instances so far of anyone trying to brainwash her in service of Kier- even if we do see the pervy doctor trying to get her to stop thinking about her husband by lying to her.
but it implies that the ultimate goal is to reintegrate all of Gemma's innies to composite them into one Eagan
I don't think we've seen anything so far that indicates Lumon wants reintegration- all this testing of Gemma under stress is to make sure that she's not retaining any of these memories of bad things.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:14 PM on February 28 [7 favorites]
Lumon is testing extremely personal dislikes, fears and trauma for bleed-through, not finding things to do with one's innie. They want to be able to market Severance as an highly effective way to avoid things a person doesn't like, from minor annoyances all the way to fears of dying. She's not brainwashed, and we see no instances so far of anyone trying to brainwash her in service of Kier- even if we do see the pervy doctor trying to get her to stop thinking about her husband by lying to her.
but it implies that the ultimate goal is to reintegrate all of Gemma's innies to composite them into one Eagan
I don't think we've seen anything so far that indicates Lumon wants reintegration- all this testing of Gemma under stress is to make sure that she's not retaining any of these memories of bad things.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:14 PM on February 28 [7 favorites]
Pulling from waaaaaaay upthread:
Nothing... says... Christmas... like... grouting.
I don't have access to the episode at the moment, but I had a stray thought during the episode that she was writing out those thank-you notes with her left hand, but in another scene when she's actually Gemma (I think in the flashbacks) we see that she actually writes with her right hand? She's also using a fountain pen/calligraphy pen and let me tell you as a southpaw those are AWFUL to try to write with your left hand. The nibs are totally backwards for someone pushing -- they're meant to be pulled.
Can anyone confirm?
posted by tzikeh at 1:20 PM on February 28 [8 favorites]
Nothing... says... Christmas... like... grouting.
I don't have access to the episode at the moment, but I had a stray thought during the episode that she was writing out those thank-you notes with her left hand, but in another scene when she's actually Gemma (I think in the flashbacks) we see that she actually writes with her right hand? She's also using a fountain pen/calligraphy pen and let me tell you as a southpaw those are AWFUL to try to write with your left hand. The nibs are totally backwards for someone pushing -- they're meant to be pulled.
Can anyone confirm?
posted by tzikeh at 1:20 PM on February 28 [8 favorites]
I figured from the uneven writing that she was writing with her non dominant hand.
posted by ellieBOA at 1:29 PM on February 28 [7 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 1:29 PM on February 28 [7 favorites]
She was definitely writing with her left hand in the Christmas scene, but I don't remember which hand she was using previously.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:29 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 1:29 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
tzikeh, you're totally right. She is writing with her right hand in the scene just before, and in the Christmas one with her left (her handwriting is a scraggle).
posted by mochapickle at 1:31 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 1:31 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
Wasn't that a Lumon teardrop in the very first scene where Mark and Gemma meet, at the blood donation place? How long have they been interfering?
posted by nat at 1:31 PM on February 28 [6 favorites]
posted by nat at 1:31 PM on February 28 [6 favorites]
Also "sire" is a super creepy word. Like "issue".
posted by nat at 1:33 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 1:33 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
How long have they been interfering?
I'm guessing from the beginning.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:43 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
I'm guessing from the beginning.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:43 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
Wasn't that a Lumon teardrop in the very first scene where Mark and Gemma meet, at the blood donation place? How long have they been interfering?
Drops of blood look a little like pomegranate seeds, come to think of it.
So now I am just dreading when the other shoe will fall. Gemma's version of their marriage was this light-kissed love affair, sunny scenes -- I loved how they showed passing time with stacks of books, the most passionate loves imo involve voracious reading! -- and I think we'll see parts of those scenes played out again from Mark's point of view.
Is Mark... is oMark maybe an awful person? Did he pressure Gemma to have a child, leaving her to feel like a failure? It's so easy to picture that scene with the hormone shots played less gently.
I like the theory that Gemma was kidnapped. Also keeping an open mind: was she instead part of the plan? Did Lumon promise to fix it (but how?) and Gemma, in a mix of devastation, despair, and desperation, agree?
Also, Ricken mentions traversing a couloir in middle school. That's a pretty fancy trip for a seventh grader. I think he comes from Big Money.
posted by mochapickle at 1:49 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Drops of blood look a little like pomegranate seeds, come to think of it.
So now I am just dreading when the other shoe will fall. Gemma's version of their marriage was this light-kissed love affair, sunny scenes -- I loved how they showed passing time with stacks of books, the most passionate loves imo involve voracious reading! -- and I think we'll see parts of those scenes played out again from Mark's point of view.
Is Mark... is oMark maybe an awful person? Did he pressure Gemma to have a child, leaving her to feel like a failure? It's so easy to picture that scene with the hormone shots played less gently.
I like the theory that Gemma was kidnapped. Also keeping an open mind: was she instead part of the plan? Did Lumon promise to fix it (but how?) and Gemma, in a mix of devastation, despair, and desperation, agree?
Also, Ricken mentions traversing a couloir in middle school. That's a pretty fancy trip for a seventh grader. I think he comes from Big Money.
posted by mochapickle at 1:49 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
If you want to know about his family, you have to read his book.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:02 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:02 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
Ricken mentions traversing a couloir in middle school
Specifically he mentions "belaying a couloir", which is 1) an odd turn of phrase 2) notably less impressive than climbing a couloir and 3) kind of an insane thing to let a middle schooler do.
posted by jedicus at 2:18 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
Specifically he mentions "belaying a couloir", which is 1) an odd turn of phrase 2) notably less impressive than climbing a couloir and 3) kind of an insane thing to let a middle schooler do.
posted by jedicus at 2:18 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]
I mean it seems to me that the MDR teams' files are personal traumas that they're processing only they don't get to experience the healing, Lumon does. These are abstract patterns that can be applied to other decision making space and/or help 'purify' the soul. My read on it is that they're conditioning Gemma, purifying her for her ascent - and it really seems like Ms Huang is Gemma and Mark's child right? Like Lumon absolutely would have kept spare feti on hand, and I could see them manufacturing the miscarriage as a long game.
posted by bookwo3107 at 2:22 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by bookwo3107 at 2:22 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
and it really seems like Ms Huang is Gemma and Mark's child right?
No?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:34 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
No?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:34 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
On a recent episode of Radio War Nerd, John Dolan recounted some reports he'd heard of torture carried out by anesthesiologists. It really compounds your ability to harm someone when you have access to and knowledge of all sorts of psychoactive drugs. Severance would compound it even more.
Not to say I think the end game of Severance is torture, but I'd be underwhelmed if Lumen was just testing and selling a consumer product. I think the most valuable knowledge they're gaining with Gemma is the extent of their ability to control someone's mind, which they could sell to extremely wealthy people who want to dictate the lives of those around them: employees, service, maybe family. Either that or hoard the knowledge and do all the enslaving themselves on their own terms. That feels more consistent with the Keir ethos to me.
posted by Hume at 2:38 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Not to say I think the end game of Severance is torture, but I'd be underwhelmed if Lumen was just testing and selling a consumer product. I think the most valuable knowledge they're gaining with Gemma is the extent of their ability to control someone's mind, which they could sell to extremely wealthy people who want to dictate the lives of those around them: employees, service, maybe family. Either that or hoard the knowledge and do all the enslaving themselves on their own terms. That feels more consistent with the Keir ethos to me.
posted by Hume at 2:38 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
Fair point, I have no idea how long the timeframe is or how young the actor playing her is, but between her showing up as soon as Ms Casey is out of the picture - and you know, we learn that Mark and Gemma went to a Lumon fertility clinic in this episode, so it felt natural enough to me, but hey I'm just a dipshit watching the teevee.
posted by bookwo3107 at 2:42 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
posted by bookwo3107 at 2:42 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
Given what we saw in this episode, I'm sticking with my theory that Lumon really does want everyone to be severed, and they want this because they want to create personas that are pure, in Kier's image, whatever, with their temperaments aligned/balanced/whatever. All this cruelty they're inflicting now is in service of that 'ideal'. I think any product marketing type stuff they're doing (more markets/uses to sell severance for) is towards that goal, too.
Also, it's funny to see that my theory about 'not an innie or an outie but a secret third thing' was only partially correct. Only three? How quaint!
posted by destructive cactus at 2:44 PM on February 28 [6 favorites]
Also, it's funny to see that my theory about 'not an innie or an outie but a secret third thing' was only partially correct. Only three? How quaint!
posted by destructive cactus at 2:44 PM on February 28 [6 favorites]
"belaying a couloir", which is 1) an odd turn of phrase
I just rewatched that scene and with subtitles turned on, Ricken's conversation keeps getting weirder. "How to drink your own piss" levels of weird.
posted by pwnguin at 3:00 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
I just rewatched that scene and with subtitles turned on, Ricken's conversation keeps getting weirder. "How to drink your own piss" levels of weird.
posted by pwnguin at 3:00 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
I might need to check, but my sense of the timeline is:
* 5 or 6 years ago, Mark and Gemma met. (When I rewatch, I'll check)
* around 2 years ago, Gemma "died"
Ms. Huang is not *that* young, barring other science fiction elements
posted by Pronoiac at 3:07 PM on February 28 [10 favorites]
* 5 or 6 years ago, Mark and Gemma met. (When I rewatch, I'll check)
* around 2 years ago, Gemma "died"
Ms. Huang is not *that* young, barring other science fiction elements
posted by Pronoiac at 3:07 PM on February 28 [10 favorites]
Hey so, disturbing question time: if the files MDR works on relate to the testing floor, and S1 Dylan says that 80 percent of them can't be refined before the file expires, does that mean most of these innies are dying off?
posted by pwnguin at 3:34 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 3:34 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
We don't really have reason to think Gemma goes into any of the rooms until after their corresponding file is refined. At least, we know they're waiting to send her into Cold Harbor until Mark is done refining the file. So if that's true for the other rooms as well, then the innies for those rooms don't exist yet at the time of their corresponding file's expiration.
posted by lampoil at 4:29 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
posted by lampoil at 4:29 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
Gemma only "died" two years ago - Miss Huang is way too old to be their child.
Also... kinda feels a little gross to posit Miss Huang is Mark and Gemma's child when the actresses look nothing alike and are of entirely different heritages (Sarah Bock is Korean, Dichen Lachman is half-Australian and half-Tibetan), just because both are "Asian"....
posted by tzikeh at 4:31 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
Also... kinda feels a little gross to posit Miss Huang is Mark and Gemma's child when the actresses look nothing alike and are of entirely different heritages (Sarah Bock is Korean, Dichen Lachman is half-Australian and half-Tibetan), just because both are "Asian"....
posted by tzikeh at 4:31 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
(re: the actor's age - Sarah Bock is 18)
posted by tzikeh at 4:39 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 4:39 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
You can put a dentist's office in a basement room, but it's vastly more difficult to convincingly do that with an airplane experiencing turbulence. Which leads me to believe that either Lumon has holodeck-type technology or can directly stimulate peoples' brains, either of which would be pretty wild!
posted by mookieproof at 4:51 PM on February 28
posted by mookieproof at 4:51 PM on February 28
Holy cats that was a fucking episode. Amazing performances and a whole lot of horrific denial/removal is personal autonomy.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:54 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 4:54 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]
You can put a dentist's office in a basement room, but it's vastly more difficult to convincingly do that with an airplane experiencing turbulence. Which leads me to believe that either Lumon has holodeck-type technology or can directly stimulate peoples' brains, either of which would be pretty wild!
I dunno, motion simulator rides can produce some pretty substantial G-forces and nauseating sensations. To produce a turbulence effect it would have to produce strong but transient acceleration. I think it could be done without assuming any futuristic technology, especially since the "plane" only has one "passenger" and one "crew member", which cuts way down on the weight.
But I'm also willing to cut the show a little slack on the feasibility of that one, since more than anything I think that scene was meant to be dark comic relief.
posted by jedicus at 6:13 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
I dunno, motion simulator rides can produce some pretty substantial G-forces and nauseating sensations. To produce a turbulence effect it would have to produce strong but transient acceleration. I think it could be done without assuming any futuristic technology, especially since the "plane" only has one "passenger" and one "crew member", which cuts way down on the weight.
But I'm also willing to cut the show a little slack on the feasibility of that one, since more than anything I think that scene was meant to be dark comic relief.
posted by jedicus at 6:13 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]
Ok the rooms are definitely different dislikes or fears of Gemma. And we know Mark is working on Cold Harbour and after he’s done, the room will be available.
So the “scary numbers” that they’re looking for, notice that they don’t have any other emotion other than scary. My guess is that MDR is looking at code which is someone’s brain output and identifying the fears/dislikes in order to isolate them so they can be used for testing. Maybe Mark is so important because as Gemma’s spouse, he can read her brain output easier than the others.
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:20 PM on February 28
So the “scary numbers” that they’re looking for, notice that they don’t have any other emotion other than scary. My guess is that MDR is looking at code which is someone’s brain output and identifying the fears/dislikes in order to isolate them so they can be used for testing. Maybe Mark is so important because as Gemma’s spouse, he can read her brain output easier than the others.
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:20 PM on February 28
I don’t think they have to be Gemma-specific fears. I totally buy that Lumon’s commercial interests are in using severance to take outsourcing-chores-to-gig workers to the next level. Maybe the Christmas/thank you notes scene is Gemma-specific, but also holiday rituals -and tedious kin work- are excruciating for a lot of people. Whatever creepy goals they might have for Kier, they are still also a huge company like GE (of old) and they wouldn’t pour infinite funds into customization around one experimental subject except where they need to. Infinite customization around Kier, yes, but I don’t think they would put on that level of effort for a subject they selected well after they had begun.
Gemma has been a prisoner for two-ish years, but we know that Lumon has had severance since Helena was a kid - decades by now. We don’t even need to know what to do with Burt’s cagey timeline to know that this project is looong in ripening.
posted by janell at 6:41 PM on February 28
Gemma has been a prisoner for two-ish years, but we know that Lumon has had severance since Helena was a kid - decades by now. We don’t even need to know what to do with Burt’s cagey timeline to know that this project is looong in ripening.
posted by janell at 6:41 PM on February 28
I dunno - after what happened today in real life, maybe watching Severance wasn't a great choice? This ep made me very, very sad.
Robby Benson is creepy af. (And yeah, that was him in the background of the fertility clinic for just an instant.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:03 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
Robby Benson is creepy af. (And yeah, that was him in the background of the fertility clinic for just an instant.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:03 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
The theory I think is most likely is that Lumon ultimately wants to use severance technologies to tame the Four Tempers in a sort of bro-ification of stoicism. I think there is a bit of a commentary on the TESCREAL ideologies present in Silicon Valley and the exploitation of people now for a utopian vision for people in the future. I think they recruited Gemma in a vulnerable state, promised to ease her pain, and are now torturing her to test the technology that will do that for others (at a premium) but ultimately not her.
The other thing is that I think any possibility of reintegration for Gemma would be disastrous. Imagine being reintegrated with memories perpetual dentistry, plane crashes, maybe drowning… it would be just crushing. So how a reunion with a now reintegrated Mark goes will be interesting dynamic-wise.
I have no guesses what Cold Harbor will entail at this point, other than it’s mysterious and important.
posted by eekernohan at 7:53 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
The other thing is that I think any possibility of reintegration for Gemma would be disastrous. Imagine being reintegrated with memories perpetual dentistry, plane crashes, maybe drowning… it would be just crushing. So how a reunion with a now reintegrated Mark goes will be interesting dynamic-wise.
I have no guesses what Cold Harbor will entail at this point, other than it’s mysterious and important.
posted by eekernohan at 7:53 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
How many rooms are there total on the testing floor?
When the refiner-watchers are watching Mark through his screen, one of the screen images is a list of files (all at 100%). He's completed Dranesville, which is labeled number 24. The others on this screen are:
1. Allentown
2. Trinity
3. Todos Santos
4. Astoria
5. Lucknow
6. St. Pierre
7. Coleman
8. Waynesboro
9. Cork
10. Molde
11. Cairns
12. Boda (or Bado?)
13. Zurich
14. Culpepper
15. Bellingham
16. Billings
17. Yakima
18. Loveland
19. Merida
20. Sopchoppy
21. Vilnius
22. Rhodes
23. Wellington
Then Cold Harbor comes up, which is labeled number 25.
Names that appear on doors that I could spot are:
* Dranesville
* Allentown
* Cairns
* Siena - x
* Loveland
* Tumwater - x
* Sopchoppy
* Adelaide - x
* Wellington
* Rhodes
* Cold Harbor
* Bellingham (possibly, it's very small but the pattern of letters makes sense)
The names with an x aren't on the list of 25 files from Mark's screen; Dylan worked on Tumwater and Helly completed Siena, unsure if Adelaide appeared earlier.
posted by brentajones at 9:13 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
When the refiner-watchers are watching Mark through his screen, one of the screen images is a list of files (all at 100%). He's completed Dranesville, which is labeled number 24. The others on this screen are:
1. Allentown
2. Trinity
3. Todos Santos
4. Astoria
5. Lucknow
6. St. Pierre
7. Coleman
8. Waynesboro
9. Cork
10. Molde
11. Cairns
12. Boda (or Bado?)
13. Zurich
14. Culpepper
15. Bellingham
16. Billings
17. Yakima
18. Loveland
19. Merida
20. Sopchoppy
21. Vilnius
22. Rhodes
23. Wellington
Then Cold Harbor comes up, which is labeled number 25.
Names that appear on doors that I could spot are:
* Dranesville
* Allentown
* Cairns
* Siena - x
* Loveland
* Tumwater - x
* Sopchoppy
* Adelaide - x
* Wellington
* Rhodes
* Cold Harbor
* Bellingham (possibly, it's very small but the pattern of letters makes sense)
The names with an x aren't on the list of 25 files from Mark's screen; Dylan worked on Tumwater and Helly completed Siena, unsure if Adelaide appeared earlier.
posted by brentajones at 9:13 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]
tzikeh: "That's not Miss Casey in those rooms - that's different innies. She only became Miss Casey in this episode when she took the elevator to the Severed floor, because she's Miss Casey *there*. The woman writing thank-you notes was not the same innie as the woman at the dentist, who was not the same woman as the woman on the plane, etc."
Yeah, I was oversimplifying it. I'm a little annoyed that they're now asking us to believe that one person can be severed into a (seemingly) arbitrary number of innies. I know she's being treated like a lab rat, but you'd think they could fake the deaths of a few more people just to give her a bit of a break.
I'm trying to imagine how they took possession of her… and what they told her on that first day. “Hey, can you help us out with some stuff? No, you can't leave just yet for reasons that are mysterious and important.”
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:44 PM on February 28
Yeah, I was oversimplifying it. I'm a little annoyed that they're now asking us to believe that one person can be severed into a (seemingly) arbitrary number of innies. I know she's being treated like a lab rat, but you'd think they could fake the deaths of a few more people just to give her a bit of a break.
I'm trying to imagine how they took possession of her… and what they told her on that first day. “Hey, can you help us out with some stuff? No, you can't leave just yet for reasons that are mysterious and important.”
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:44 PM on February 28
At the beginning of the episode, when Gemma is having blood taken, Cecily asks, “Gemma, where did you go?” At the end, when Mark was waking up, Devon asks, “Mark, where’d you go?” I liked the symmetry bookending a haunting, beautiful episode.
Also, others have stated it but Dichen Lachman put in an absolutely amazing performance in this episode. She played several different people in several different settings and situations. She had different hairstyles, different clothing depending on the room, and she absolutely nailed every single scene. We had barely met Gemma before this episode and now we can’t imagine the series without her. We don’t want to lose her, we don’t want bad things to happen to her, and we only got to know her at all here. It was a very complex episode to play and she hit every note. This series has been full of great performances and this to me was the strongest to date.
posted by azpenguin at 12:35 AM on March 1 [20 favorites]
Also, others have stated it but Dichen Lachman put in an absolutely amazing performance in this episode. She played several different people in several different settings and situations. She had different hairstyles, different clothing depending on the room, and she absolutely nailed every single scene. We had barely met Gemma before this episode and now we can’t imagine the series without her. We don’t want to lose her, we don’t want bad things to happen to her, and we only got to know her at all here. It was a very complex episode to play and she hit every note. This series has been full of great performances and this to me was the strongest to date.
posted by azpenguin at 12:35 AM on March 1 [20 favorites]
I wonder what the audition was like for her character lol
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:02 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:02 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
They actually mention that on the podcast - she did a self-tape of a Ms Casey scene, and there was comment on how well it was shot (her husband is also an actor and they do each other's self-tapes).
I'm curious about how early Dichen Lachman and Britt Lower started to think about their other characters (there are a couple of Helena scenes early in the first season, but nothing complicated). Obviously, all we had of Gemma until this episode was a couple of photos and some flash frames, but I'd be interested to know what she knew and when.
So now we know what Lumon is doing, even if we have to conjecture why. I am interested in the characters who are complicit, but are obviously in conflict (and who I expect to turn against Lumon) - Helena in particular (who admitted to Mark that she was ashamed of who she is); Milchick, I think; Cobel, certainly (a true believer, who now possibly thinks it's Lumon who have betrayed Kier, or perhaps she now has the fervour of the anti-convert); Perhaps Dr Mauer - who is obviously conflicted by what's going to happen to Gemma, if only because he wants her to himself.
What's going to happen to Gemma - "You will see the world and the world will see you".
Mauer, at the least, is a monster (it's so easy to slip Mengele in there). The letter-writing scene struck me as not so much about a scenario involving drudgery as a one where at home a woman was the possession of her husband. The letters are one thing, but the forced "I love you" quite another.
The thing with the Severance chips is that if they can get them into people's brains, they have a back door to those people, and can install contexts where those people become whatever Lumon want them to become. They sell convenience, but gain control.
I wonder what Lumon did before 2010-ish (when the first Severance chip was created).
I'm at the point where I'm completely intoxicated by the show, want to have all the episodes NOW, but realise that in less than a month I'll have them all and will be embarking on another long wait for season three.
posted by Grangousier at 3:47 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
I'm curious about how early Dichen Lachman and Britt Lower started to think about their other characters (there are a couple of Helena scenes early in the first season, but nothing complicated). Obviously, all we had of Gemma until this episode was a couple of photos and some flash frames, but I'd be interested to know what she knew and when.
So now we know what Lumon is doing, even if we have to conjecture why. I am interested in the characters who are complicit, but are obviously in conflict (and who I expect to turn against Lumon) - Helena in particular (who admitted to Mark that she was ashamed of who she is); Milchick, I think; Cobel, certainly (a true believer, who now possibly thinks it's Lumon who have betrayed Kier, or perhaps she now has the fervour of the anti-convert); Perhaps Dr Mauer - who is obviously conflicted by what's going to happen to Gemma, if only because he wants her to himself.
What's going to happen to Gemma - "You will see the world and the world will see you".
Mauer, at the least, is a monster (it's so easy to slip Mengele in there). The letter-writing scene struck me as not so much about a scenario involving drudgery as a one where at home a woman was the possession of her husband. The letters are one thing, but the forced "I love you" quite another.
The thing with the Severance chips is that if they can get them into people's brains, they have a back door to those people, and can install contexts where those people become whatever Lumon want them to become. They sell convenience, but gain control.
I wonder what Lumon did before 2010-ish (when the first Severance chip was created).
I'm at the point where I'm completely intoxicated by the show, want to have all the episodes NOW, but realise that in less than a month I'll have them all and will be embarking on another long wait for season three.
posted by Grangousier at 3:47 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Considering she’s been underground for several years - apart from her emotional and psychic state, she’s acclimatised to it well. I am getting flashbacks to Irv B screaming at Helena in Woe’s Hollow, though - “she’s a fucking mole!”. I wonder how much of the series is really a metaphor for underground mammalians, and how the goats fit this reading?
also I am still in pieces, what an episode
posted by davemee at 3:58 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
also I am still in pieces, what an episode
posted by davemee at 3:58 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Oh, and the device that the nurse was using to monitor Gemma's reactions to questions - is that a bit of real clinical equipment, or a modern E-Meter? It did seem like the most on-the-nose trolling of Scientology I've seen recently.
posted by Grangousier at 4:52 AM on March 1 [6 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 4:52 AM on March 1 [6 favorites]
After Milchick appeared at the door to the Exports Hall, I thought back to his line from episode 2 – "We're not jailers" – that hinted to us that maybe he's really different from Cobel and Lumon under the surface. But now we know that he's been a jailer all along, and he undoubtedly knows it.
posted by skoosh at 4:55 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
posted by skoosh at 4:55 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Also, others have stated it but Dichen Lachman put in an absolutely amazing performance in this episode
Completely agree. It was amazing to see Gemma go from a flat, one dimensional character to such a full vibrant rich life. And then heartbreaking to realize that she is captive, and that she knows it.
On the other hand, I absolutely hated the incoherent impressionist flashing, bright lights / blackened hallway, "style" of this episode. I was riding a migraine from it. Mr. Dashy got up and left halfway through. It was torture. I can only hope it was a singularity.
posted by Dashy at 5:03 AM on March 1
Completely agree. It was amazing to see Gemma go from a flat, one dimensional character to such a full vibrant rich life. And then heartbreaking to realize that she is captive, and that she knows it.
On the other hand, I absolutely hated the incoherent impressionist flashing, bright lights / blackened hallway, "style" of this episode. I was riding a migraine from it. Mr. Dashy got up and left halfway through. It was torture. I can only hope it was a singularity.
posted by Dashy at 5:03 AM on March 1
For me, this episode turned the show from a mystery to a tragedy. Still digesting, but it was HEAVY.
posted by ourobouros at 7:18 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
posted by ourobouros at 7:18 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
lampoil: Casting Robby Benson to fall in love with the woman he keeps captive? Funny.
Yeah, what a Beast. ;)
Also, I'll have to rewatch, but did anyone think the refiner-watchers may have been the same people as the sorta-doubles from Woe's Hollow? One guy in particular looked like the creepyDylan pointing in that previous episode.
posted by BeBoth at 7:38 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Yeah, what a Beast. ;)
Also, I'll have to rewatch, but did anyone think the refiner-watchers may have been the same people as the sorta-doubles from Woe's Hollow? One guy in particular looked like the creepyDylan pointing in that previous episode.
posted by BeBoth at 7:38 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Pheee-ew! Binge watched the entire series and caught up for this episode. Amazing. I'm going to be processing this for a while.
One of my main takeaways, though, is that I'm *so* happy that we finally get to see Gemma as a character and not just as an icon of Mark's grief. And a character that takes the initiative to try to rescue herself! I whooped with delight when she hit Dr. Creepy with the chair. (Didn't somebody else hit someone with a chair at some point? I can't remember.) Then how heartbreaking it was when Miss Casey was blocked by Milchick, and Gemma woke up back downstairs in the elevator.
The Unpleasant Experience Rooms were nightmarish, but especially the Christmas one. Ugh! That guy.
Interesting that the rooms all seem to be named after places. I wonder what that signifies. Cold Harbor apparently was the site of a Civil War battle, in addition to the connotations of the word itself (for me: an unwelcoming place; or a ship voyage that ends in shipwreck and drowning). I'm sure someone on Reddit or somewhere has compiled a list of all the places and their possible connections.
Also, Devon is possibly my favorite character ever. She's just so *real.* And dedicated to her brother in such a grounded way--so much love without being even a trace sentimental about it. I hurt for her when Dr. Reghabi bailed, although I absolutely understand the decision from the doctor's point of view--if Lumon ever catches up with her, it's game over. (How *does* Mark keep sneaking people into his home with nobody noticing?)
Finally, is it just me that's a little sad that Mark is reintegrating? Because if Mark fully reintegrates, then i-Mark effectively disappears as a separate person--i-Mark and o-Mark will become some third, combined self. And I really adore i-Mark. On the other hand, he is who he is at least in part because of the enforced "childishness" that Lumon imposes on their world, which means he's stuck in a kind of stasis. I guess kids have to grow up, even if there's an element of loss involved.
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 8:26 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
One of my main takeaways, though, is that I'm *so* happy that we finally get to see Gemma as a character and not just as an icon of Mark's grief. And a character that takes the initiative to try to rescue herself! I whooped with delight when she hit Dr. Creepy with the chair. (Didn't somebody else hit someone with a chair at some point? I can't remember.) Then how heartbreaking it was when Miss Casey was blocked by Milchick, and Gemma woke up back downstairs in the elevator.
The Unpleasant Experience Rooms were nightmarish, but especially the Christmas one. Ugh! That guy.
Interesting that the rooms all seem to be named after places. I wonder what that signifies. Cold Harbor apparently was the site of a Civil War battle, in addition to the connotations of the word itself (for me: an unwelcoming place; or a ship voyage that ends in shipwreck and drowning). I'm sure someone on Reddit or somewhere has compiled a list of all the places and their possible connections.
Also, Devon is possibly my favorite character ever. She's just so *real.* And dedicated to her brother in such a grounded way--so much love without being even a trace sentimental about it. I hurt for her when Dr. Reghabi bailed, although I absolutely understand the decision from the doctor's point of view--if Lumon ever catches up with her, it's game over. (How *does* Mark keep sneaking people into his home with nobody noticing?)
Finally, is it just me that's a little sad that Mark is reintegrating? Because if Mark fully reintegrates, then i-Mark effectively disappears as a separate person--i-Mark and o-Mark will become some third, combined self. And I really adore i-Mark. On the other hand, he is who he is at least in part because of the enforced "childishness" that Lumon imposes on their world, which means he's stuck in a kind of stasis. I guess kids have to grow up, even if there's an element of loss involved.
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 8:26 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
OK, I watch a YouTube recap that confirmed what I saw: the refiner-watchers are definitely sorta-doubles, but if they are the same as the one's in Woe's Hollow? Not sure.
Another observation is how much the scene of Mark and Gemma meeting while giving blood reminded me of the way the couple first meet in Stephen King's Firestarter (and spoiler alert..become parents to a firestarter). They take part in what seems like a harmless experimental test of a new drug and then all hell breaks loose. And while a fictional event, is heavily influenced by the very real, very scary Project MKUltra.
posted by BeBoth at 8:52 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Another observation is how much the scene of Mark and Gemma meeting while giving blood reminded me of the way the couple first meet in Stephen King's Firestarter (and spoiler alert..become parents to a firestarter). They take part in what seems like a harmless experimental test of a new drug and then all hell breaks loose. And while a fictional event, is heavily influenced by the very real, very scary Project MKUltra.
posted by BeBoth at 8:52 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Just another member of the Dichen Lachman fan club. As soon as I realized that was her in Season 1, I was hoping for an episode like this to show off how awesome she is.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:29 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:29 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Whatever creepy goals they might have for Kier, they are still also a huge company like GE (of old) and they wouldn’t pour infinite funds into customization around one experimental subject except where they need to.
What we see on the testing floor is less about customization, and more about testing bleed through from repetition of one's most personally hated tasks and fears. The doctor repeatedly asks questions about what Gemma remembers from her severed visits to the dentist, the terrifying plane ride, and the Thank You letter writing. The way all these things would presumably work out in the real world is the same as they work at Lumon: a threshold that activates a severance chip. So there's one in the dentist waiting room, at boarding in the airport (or on the plane), or in your little office where you write thank you notes. No special customization is particularly required, though it does seem like they'd want a way to generally tune chips so that not every severed person forgets everything at the birthing cabin, even if they aren't the one that is pregnant.
The testing on Gemma seems much more about whether someone's worst triggers are going to cause issues for the Magic Skip-the-Worst-Drudgery-and-Unpleasnt-Moments-Chip that they seem to be trying to get people to sign up for. If you have a horrible fear of dying in an airplane crash, and experience that near-catastrophe uncounted times without remembering a thing about it, it's safe to say that the Severance chip is going to effectively compartmentalize all one's emotional responses in less draining moments too. (That's my theory, anyway)
posted by oneirodynia at 10:49 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
What we see on the testing floor is less about customization, and more about testing bleed through from repetition of one's most personally hated tasks and fears. The doctor repeatedly asks questions about what Gemma remembers from her severed visits to the dentist, the terrifying plane ride, and the Thank You letter writing. The way all these things would presumably work out in the real world is the same as they work at Lumon: a threshold that activates a severance chip. So there's one in the dentist waiting room, at boarding in the airport (or on the plane), or in your little office where you write thank you notes. No special customization is particularly required, though it does seem like they'd want a way to generally tune chips so that not every severed person forgets everything at the birthing cabin, even if they aren't the one that is pregnant.
The testing on Gemma seems much more about whether someone's worst triggers are going to cause issues for the Magic Skip-the-Worst-Drudgery-and-Unpleasnt-Moments-Chip that they seem to be trying to get people to sign up for. If you have a horrible fear of dying in an airplane crash, and experience that near-catastrophe uncounted times without remembering a thing about it, it's safe to say that the Severance chip is going to effectively compartmentalize all one's emotional responses in less draining moments too. (That's my theory, anyway)
posted by oneirodynia at 10:49 AM on March 1 [3 favorites]
All the theories sounds like Lumen putting in a lot of work for its customers, when it seems like Lumen is more focused on the success and power of the Kiers? Or do we all get a revolving?
posted by armacy at 12:34 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by armacy at 12:34 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Is the Revolving simply a bunch of Kiers timesharing the same vessel?
posted by whuppy at 1:34 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by whuppy at 1:34 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Every week there are all of these pop-culture articles or YouTube videos that come out like "Ten Things You Missed in Last Night's Episode of Severance" or "An Important Piece of Information was Hidden in Severance's Latest Episode!" or "All of the Easter Eggs in Episode 7: Chikhai Bardo" and *literally every one* is the most obvious stuff that would be really hard to miss.
Is it just that many people don't watch and listen closely? Are they treating Severance like a "show that's on while I scroll my phone" show? I'm sure we've all missed one thing or another; I know I've missed important info here and there on my first watch of an episode here and there, but these are just lists upon lists of the most pedestrian, clue-bat-swinging moments or details in each episode.
Who are these articles and videos for?
posted by tzikeh at 1:58 PM on March 1
Is it just that many people don't watch and listen closely? Are they treating Severance like a "show that's on while I scroll my phone" show? I'm sure we've all missed one thing or another; I know I've missed important info here and there on my first watch of an episode here and there, but these are just lists upon lists of the most pedestrian, clue-bat-swinging moments or details in each episode.
Who are these articles and videos for?
posted by tzikeh at 1:58 PM on March 1
We don't really know what a revolving is, beyond perhaps a culty way of saying deathbed.
The only person we've seen use severance for something other than working at Lumon is the senator's wife, who isn't an Eagan as far as we know. The exchange between Devon and Reghabi about the birthing center implies it's available to others, as well.
Of course, by that same token, and that the senator's wife has already been using severance to avoid that particular unpleasant task for quite some time (the innie speaks of the birth as her third), the purpose of what's happening on the testing floor must be more than just packaging severance to sell to the public, as it seems like they already have that well underway.
If the larger purpose does have to do with death, I'm curious whether it's only about avoiding the fear of experiencing death, or more to do with the cult's beliefs about what happens to the soul/consciousness at and after the moment of death. Especially because of the obsession with whether any pain or other emotions seep through from innie to outie. Again, we've had so many allusions to hell, heaven, the underworld, "the eternal dark," and now bardo, which all could just be thematic, not plot-related, but there is a lot of it.
posted by lampoil at 2:26 PM on March 1
The only person we've seen use severance for something other than working at Lumon is the senator's wife, who isn't an Eagan as far as we know. The exchange between Devon and Reghabi about the birthing center implies it's available to others, as well.
Of course, by that same token, and that the senator's wife has already been using severance to avoid that particular unpleasant task for quite some time (the innie speaks of the birth as her third), the purpose of what's happening on the testing floor must be more than just packaging severance to sell to the public, as it seems like they already have that well underway.
If the larger purpose does have to do with death, I'm curious whether it's only about avoiding the fear of experiencing death, or more to do with the cult's beliefs about what happens to the soul/consciousness at and after the moment of death. Especially because of the obsession with whether any pain or other emotions seep through from innie to outie. Again, we've had so many allusions to hell, heaven, the underworld, "the eternal dark," and now bardo, which all could just be thematic, not plot-related, but there is a lot of it.
posted by lampoil at 2:26 PM on March 1
> "Who are these articles and videos for?"
Whoever is successfully tricked into clicking on them.
posted by kyrademon at 2:35 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
Whoever is successfully tricked into clicking on them.
posted by kyrademon at 2:35 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
I’ve seen people lament that roughly half of Severance discourse is “I can’t believe how deliberately planned ahead everything has been from the start,” and the other half is “wow! did u know that in narrative fiction they reveal information to the audience as they go along!”
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:02 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:02 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
I wonder what Lumon did before 2010-ish (when the first Severance chip was created).
I figure they've been dabbling in lobotomies and hypnosis for the past century, and most of them fizzle out as failures, hence the huge but unoccupied 70's office space.
posted by pwnguin at 3:54 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
I figure they've been dabbling in lobotomies and hypnosis for the past century, and most of them fizzle out as failures, hence the huge but unoccupied 70's office space.
posted by pwnguin at 3:54 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Whoever is successfully tricked into clicking on them.
*buys an "I'm the idiot" t-shirt*
“wow! did u know that in narrative fiction they reveal information to the audience as they go along!”
yeah, sigh
dabbling in lobotomies
Sockpuppet name up for grabs!
posted by tzikeh at 4:03 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
*buys an "I'm the idiot" t-shirt*
“wow! did u know that in narrative fiction they reveal information to the audience as they go along!”
yeah, sigh
dabbling in lobotomies
Sockpuppet name up for grabs!
posted by tzikeh at 4:03 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
An underlying theme of Severance is the value of solidarity and teams.
Innie Mark has only gotten as far as he has in the fight against Lumon and his understanding of the big picture because he had Helly, Irving and Dylan to help him, bounce ideas off of, supply new information, and so forth. For that matter, Outie Mark’s journey started because Petey came to him — but he’s also got Dylan on side, and, sort of, the doctor.
Gemma has no one. So, she runs, she finds the elevator…and she is immediately sent back down again because of her innie. As someone said, it’s the distorted mirror image of Helly being sent back in by Helena (who did not achieve success in her rebellion until she teamed up with the rest of MDR).
Some people think that Make and Gemma’s relationship was basically over when they vanished. Relationships go through rough patches and they were in one, but it actually seems like they were starting to come out of it.
This episode is cause if Discourse on Tumblr between Helly x Mark shippers and Gemma x Mark shippers. This show has been so complicated to date that I can’t imagine it’s going to end in an either/or.
posted by rednikki at 5:17 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
Innie Mark has only gotten as far as he has in the fight against Lumon and his understanding of the big picture because he had Helly, Irving and Dylan to help him, bounce ideas off of, supply new information, and so forth. For that matter, Outie Mark’s journey started because Petey came to him — but he’s also got Dylan on side, and, sort of, the doctor.
Gemma has no one. So, she runs, she finds the elevator…and she is immediately sent back down again because of her innie. As someone said, it’s the distorted mirror image of Helly being sent back in by Helena (who did not achieve success in her rebellion until she teamed up with the rest of MDR).
Some people think that Make and Gemma’s relationship was basically over when they vanished. Relationships go through rough patches and they were in one, but it actually seems like they were starting to come out of it.
This episode is cause if Discourse on Tumblr between Helly x Mark shippers and Gemma x Mark shippers. This show has been so complicated to date that I can’t imagine it’s going to end in an either/or.
posted by rednikki at 5:17 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
Then how heartbreaking it was when Miss Casey was blocked by Milchick, and Gemma woke up back downstairs in the elevator.
So up until now, for me, Michick was a redeemable character. Not anymore.
posted by Quonab at 5:39 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]
So up until now, for me, Michick was a redeemable character. Not anymore.
posted by Quonab at 5:39 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]
I really, really disliked the Devon-Reghabi interactions. It was that terrible type of writing where they're being deliberately mysterious and not following up on things a normal person would in such a situation. Like Reghabi tells Devon that Gemma is alive and instead of Devon saying, "Hold up, what do you mean? How the fuck do you know that? Where is she?" etc she just...lets Reghabi walk away? And she doesn't really press Reghabi much at all on her mysterious non-answers to extremely valid questions like "who are you" and "why are you here"?
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:22 PM on March 1 [25 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:22 PM on March 1 [25 favorites]
I'm also curious what exactly Lumon's relationship to the rest of the world is. The show is mostly set in a Lumon company town, but does the rest of the world know about the Kier cult stuff? Because it goes way beyond even Silicon Valley weirdness. It's hard to believe Lumon could operate as a normal business if it's known that it's built around an actual religious cult.
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:26 PM on March 1
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:26 PM on March 1
The Gemma innie at the dentist said, "I was just here," and the Gemma innie writing thank you notes at Christmas said, "It's always Christmas," so it's clear that these are different innies who only exist in these rooms.
While this makes sense in some ways, the visuals when Gemma went into the elevator made it clear she was going through the severance field or whatever it's called. That didn't happen at the doors. Plus she was aware that time had passed.
It's possible they're looking at a "refined" version of severance that's different from the "whole person" version they have now, but Gemma has definitely undergone that process as well.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:54 PM on March 1
While this makes sense in some ways, the visuals when Gemma went into the elevator made it clear she was going through the severance field or whatever it's called. That didn't happen at the doors. Plus she was aware that time had passed.
It's possible they're looking at a "refined" version of severance that's different from the "whole person" version they have now, but Gemma has definitely undergone that process as well.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:54 PM on March 1
While this makes sense in some ways, the visuals when Gemma went into the elevator made it clear she was going through the severance field or whatever it's called. That didn't happen at the doors.
The same focal length change and signature "ding" sound as the elevator does happen at the door for the dentist as well as the Christmas door. The plane door got the focal length change, but not the ding (it was cut a little faster, so I didn't interpret it as signifying anything different).
posted by brentajones at 8:02 PM on March 1 [12 favorites]
The same focal length change and signature "ding" sound as the elevator does happen at the door for the dentist as well as the Christmas door. The plane door got the focal length change, but not the ding (it was cut a little faster, so I didn't interpret it as signifying anything different).
posted by brentajones at 8:02 PM on March 1 [12 favorites]
It's hard to believe Lumon could operate as a normal business if it's known that it's built around an actual religious cult.
Your silverware and cereal companies beg to differ.
posted by pwnguin at 11:18 PM on March 1 [19 favorites]
Your silverware and cereal companies beg to differ.
posted by pwnguin at 11:18 PM on March 1 [19 favorites]
But why is one of the innies Ms Casey? What purpose does that serve?
In season 1 they said Ms Casey was a "part time innie" and it didn't quite make sense. Now it does - she's one of the innies that Gemma switches to part of the time.
My guess is that the whole Wellness thing wasn't really needed and Ms Casey was another test like the other rooms. The test: Spending kind of intimate time with Mark (well, Innie Mark) to test whether she (Casey) recognizes him, or whether she (Gemma) remembers seeing Mark recently.
posted by mmoncur at 12:04 AM on March 2
In season 1 they said Ms Casey was a "part time innie" and it didn't quite make sense. Now it does - she's one of the innies that Gemma switches to part of the time.
My guess is that the whole Wellness thing wasn't really needed and Ms Casey was another test like the other rooms. The test: Spending kind of intimate time with Mark (well, Innie Mark) to test whether she (Casey) recognizes him, or whether she (Gemma) remembers seeing Mark recently.
posted by mmoncur at 12:04 AM on March 2
Wellness could be Cobel’s idea, since she wants to show reintegration is possible. Also it stopped when she was no longer in charge of the severance floor.
So we as the audience know there is bleed through; oIrv paints the hallway he can’t have seen. iMark sculpted a tree when meeting Miss Casey in a wellness session.
But does Lumon know about it? In this episode Gemma only seems to know things about the rooms that are from physical effects, the pain in her mouth or hand.
posted by nat at 2:41 AM on March 2 [2 favorites]
So we as the audience know there is bleed through; oIrv paints the hallway he can’t have seen. iMark sculpted a tree when meeting Miss Casey in a wellness session.
But does Lumon know about it? In this episode Gemma only seems to know things about the rooms that are from physical effects, the pain in her mouth or hand.
posted by nat at 2:41 AM on March 2 [2 favorites]
Oh, I’m also not sure of the timeframe, but if the four observers in the dark room are supposed to be matched to our team of four, then why are there still four? Shouldn’t Irv’s double no longer be needed?
posted by nat at 2:43 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 2:43 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
I thought that chair was unoccupied during the scene where they talk about being stuck at 93%.
posted by Grangousier at 4:50 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 4:50 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
I hope Lachman gets nominations for guest actress. I suspect she will. It's feeling like Severance's year.
posted by tzikeh at 6:13 AM on March 2
posted by tzikeh at 6:13 AM on March 2
Whoever is successfully tricked into clicking on them.
Speaking of which, what's with all the fake Superman (2025) trailers?
posted by whuppy at 7:51 AM on March 2
Speaking of which, what's with all the fake Superman (2025) trailers?
posted by whuppy at 7:51 AM on March 2
Gemma is officially dead in the outie world. Can Lumen ever let her see the light of day again? I can't imagine even Lumen could pull that off (even if they wanted to).
Shiver.
How did they get her down there? Did they cajole her? Or was it a straight up high-tech hoodwinking? And what kind of story did they concoct?
Shudder.
posted by whuppy at 8:00 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Shiver.
How did they get her down there? Did they cajole her? Or was it a straight up high-tech hoodwinking? And what kind of story did they concoct?
Shudder.
posted by whuppy at 8:00 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Also also, I still want to know how innie Irv knew about outie Irv's chest of secrets.
posted by whuppy at 8:01 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
posted by whuppy at 8:01 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
oIrv paints the hallway he can’t have seen
This is just something that I've made up, but: I think Irving Bailiff is investigating Lumon and an informant (perhaps Reghabi) has given him information about the Exports Hall, and the paintings are an attempt to force the image through to Irving B. He talks on the phone about Them suspecting what his innie is doing.
Irving is the most mysterious character at this point, I think.
posted by Grangousier at 8:01 AM on March 2 [8 favorites]
This is just something that I've made up, but: I think Irving Bailiff is investigating Lumon and an informant (perhaps Reghabi) has given him information about the Exports Hall, and the paintings are an attempt to force the image through to Irving B. He talks on the phone about Them suspecting what his innie is doing.
Irving is the most mysterious character at this point, I think.
posted by Grangousier at 8:01 AM on March 2 [8 favorites]
Finally, the last thing Gemma will ever want to do is reintegrate.
Triple shudder, shiver, and shriek.
posted by whuppy at 8:02 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Triple shudder, shiver, and shriek.
posted by whuppy at 8:02 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Yes, I was thinking that. Also, that Dr Mauer has (as he has hinted) that one room where... Two places I really don't want them to go, except by implication.
posted by Grangousier at 8:10 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 8:10 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Cold Harbor was the site of a horrible battle in the American Civil War. The Union Army attacked into heavily fortified Confederate positions, resulting in massive casualties. The attacks failed, adding futility to the horrors.
This battle took place in 1864, when Kier Eagan would have been 22 or 23. I'd wager Cold Harbor is where Kier Eagan met death and where the idea of Lumon was born.
The theories floating here make a ton of sense: Lumon is testing leakage on Gemma, and Cold Harbor will be a near-death experience for her, the ultimate test.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 8:48 AM on March 2 [11 favorites]
This battle took place in 1864, when Kier Eagan would have been 22 or 23. I'd wager Cold Harbor is where Kier Eagan met death and where the idea of Lumon was born.
The theories floating here make a ton of sense: Lumon is testing leakage on Gemma, and Cold Harbor will be a near-death experience for her, the ultimate test.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 8:48 AM on March 2 [11 favorites]
Loved this episode. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the stark contrast of Gemma and Mark's relationship unfolding in what seems like a lush always-summer (all the plants, the sun shining, the loud insects during their meal with Devon and Ricken) with the always-winter of the present day.
persephone was gathering flowers (plants!) in a beautiful spring meadow when she was abducted by Hades and taken to the Underworld. As a result her mother demeter withdrew her bounty from the world, locking it into winter.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:56 PM on March 2 [10 favorites]
persephone was gathering flowers (plants!) in a beautiful spring meadow when she was abducted by Hades and taken to the Underworld. As a result her mother demeter withdrew her bounty from the world, locking it into winter.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:56 PM on March 2 [10 favorites]
Also also, I still want to know how innie Irv knew about outie Irv's chest of secrets.
He didn't. Innie Irv was searching the apartment to learn more about his outie when he found the chest.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:15 PM on March 2 [1 favorite]
He didn't. Innie Irv was searching the apartment to learn more about his outie when he found the chest.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:15 PM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Something we haven't discussed is that innie Mark is supposed to be from Allentown, according to the statue of him on his desk. Or at least the statue says "Allentown" on it.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:17 PM on March 2
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:17 PM on March 2
I interpreted that as an award, as in “congratulations on finishing the Allentown file”
posted by migurski at 7:18 PM on March 2 [7 favorites]
posted by migurski at 7:18 PM on March 2 [7 favorites]
Yeah that award was for his "freshman fluke" when he finished the Allentown file in record time on his first day.
posted by simonw at 7:23 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
posted by simonw at 7:23 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
This TikTok argues that we are seeing the story of Orpheus and Eurydice play out. Mark is Orpheus, descending into hell (the Severance basements are so clearly hell, the first episode was even called "Good News About Hell") to try to find and retrieve his deceased wife, Gemma - who is trapped there.
posted by simonw at 7:46 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
posted by simonw at 7:46 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
I was actually pleased the show's given us that explanation for the Allentown award, because it had been bothering my mind as a link to real geography. At the very start of the show, with Helly remembering Delaware as a state, I'd also interpreted the award as referring to Allentown, Pennsylvania, and assumed that's where the Lumon offices were located. But then it became clear that they were in Kier, PE (not PA!), and also that Lumon works very hard to keep the severed very completely isolated from the outer world, and the Allentown inscription just bothered me more and more. Having it be the file name, though, is a neat way to take care of that. I wonder if they'd planned it that way all along, or if they had to retcon that in at some point after having bought or made the prop?
posted by sigmagalator at 10:33 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
posted by sigmagalator at 10:33 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
pretty satisfying to realize that we now know what Optics & Design was manufacturing all those various objects for, in a way that suggests that they probably intend to provide satisfactory explanations for the bulk of the mysteries along the way
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:01 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:01 PM on March 2 [5 favorites]
To think I was starting to feel a little sorry for Milchick.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:55 AM on March 3 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:55 AM on March 3 [3 favorites]
There were two odd references that I had to look up after this episode and they have a thematic connection.
During the dinner conversation with Devon and Rikon they are talking about Mount Everest and Gemma says Chomolungma which is the Tibetan name for the mountain.
Then later as Gemma is leaving she asks Mark if he saw that thing about Denali which is the First Nations name for Mount McKinley.
I can't think of a narrative reason for the parrallel but it's been bothering me
posted by alanbee at 5:21 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
During the dinner conversation with Devon and Rikon they are talking about Mount Everest and Gemma says Chomolungma which is the Tibetan name for the mountain.
Then later as Gemma is leaving she asks Mark if he saw that thing about Denali which is the First Nations name for Mount McKinley.
I can't think of a narrative reason for the parrallel but it's been bothering me
posted by alanbee at 5:21 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
Dichen Lachman's mother was from Tibet, so maybe her character is also meant to have a Tibet connection?
Up until recently, Denali was also the official US name for the mountain (it changed under Obama). So that would have been the name while they were filming the episode.
Of course, that is in "our" world not the world Severance is set in. In the claymation video, it shows that Lumon has a presence in more countries than currently exist in our world. With "hundreds of thousands" of employees spread around the world and knowing they have some sort of word domination outlook who knows what other aspects of history are a ripple effect of their influence. Did some wars not happen globally? Were they more/less severe? We know some states of the US exist (Delaware, Michigan, Wyoming) but Mark works in "PE" which doesn't exist for us. The ripple effects of an alternate history also would explain away the familiar but rather uneven tech landscape.
posted by mikepop at 7:04 AM on March 3
Up until recently, Denali was also the official US name for the mountain (it changed under Obama). So that would have been the name while they were filming the episode.
Of course, that is in "our" world not the world Severance is set in. In the claymation video, it shows that Lumon has a presence in more countries than currently exist in our world. With "hundreds of thousands" of employees spread around the world and knowing they have some sort of word domination outlook who knows what other aspects of history are a ripple effect of their influence. Did some wars not happen globally? Were they more/less severe? We know some states of the US exist (Delaware, Michigan, Wyoming) but Mark works in "PE" which doesn't exist for us. The ripple effects of an alternate history also would explain away the familiar but rather uneven tech landscape.
posted by mikepop at 7:04 AM on March 3
During the dinner conversation with Devon and Rikon they are talking about Mount Everest and Gemma says Chomolungma which is the Tibetan name for the mountain.
Gemma is obviously very intelligent, and very well read. This may just have come naturally to her.
posted by azpenguin at 8:36 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
Gemma is obviously very intelligent, and very well read. This may just have come naturally to her.
posted by azpenguin at 8:36 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
Anyone interested in the clinical equipment used at the start of the show - it is a fantastic prop called a "Woemeter" and there's lots of detail here It features "Multiple Woe Reading Modes".
posted by farlo at 9:19 AM on March 3 [23 favorites]
posted by farlo at 9:19 AM on March 3 [23 favorites]
Thanks for adding that link farlo! They do awesome work and incorporating some real 90's-era knobs really helped sell it. That second concept looked super cool too, maybe they'll use that for the dread- or malice-meter if we ever get to see those.
posted by ssmith at 10:37 AM on March 3
posted by ssmith at 10:37 AM on March 3
…90's-era knobs…
The particular model cited in the DYI link is from the 1990s but the design language dates back to models from the late 1960s/early 1970s
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:37 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
The particular model cited in the DYI link is from the 1990s but the design language dates back to models from the late 1960s/early 1970s
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:37 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
Apple released an 8-hour Severance mixtape video on YouTube.
posted by funkaspuck at 3:59 PM on March 3 [4 favorites]
posted by funkaspuck at 3:59 PM on March 3 [4 favorites]
In the claymation video, it shows that Lumon has a presence in more countries than currently exist in our world.
We have no reason to believe anything in the video is true. We already know the part about the "revolution" is false; no one outside of the immediate Severance floor staff and their superiors know about it. Since the Innies have very limited knowledge of the outside world the video is likely complete nonsense designed to seem just plausible enough to them.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:19 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
We have no reason to believe anything in the video is true. We already know the part about the "revolution" is false; no one outside of the immediate Severance floor staff and their superiors know about it. Since the Innies have very limited knowledge of the outside world the video is likely complete nonsense designed to seem just plausible enough to them.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:19 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
Apple released an 8-hour Severance mixtape video on YouTube.
I had that in my headphones yesterday while working… it was surprisingly decent for productivity for me.
posted by azpenguin at 7:03 AM on March 4 [1 favorite]
I had that in my headphones yesterday while working… it was surprisingly decent for productivity for me.
posted by azpenguin at 7:03 AM on March 4 [1 favorite]
it's not really related to this episode, but it's been on my mind: what the heck is up with some of the character names in this show, anyway
like "Milchick" and "Selvig" sound almost Yiddish, or at least broadly Germanic-ish but maybe kind of anglicized? And "Cobel" is also kind of a weird name, right?
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:25 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
like "Milchick" and "Selvig" sound almost Yiddish, or at least broadly Germanic-ish but maybe kind of anglicized? And "Cobel" is also kind of a weird name, right?
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:25 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Or Mark and Gemma Scout, Ricken Hale (as in Hale and Hearty), Irving Bailiff, Burt Goodman (Goodfella?)…
Selvig means “self-employed” in Swedish (I thought it meant “selfish” in another language but can’t confirm that right now).
Another thing is the chopped and mutilated names- Jame, Rebec, Ricken; If you take the R from Helly R and add it to Eagan, you get Reagan. Not that I can get that to mean anything.
And there’s the Shetland fire festival of Up Helly Aa, of course, but apart from puerile sniggering, I can’t get that to mean anything either.
posted by Grangousier at 4:53 AM on March 5 [1 favorite]
Selvig means “self-employed” in Swedish (I thought it meant “selfish” in another language but can’t confirm that right now).
Another thing is the chopped and mutilated names- Jame, Rebec, Ricken; If you take the R from Helly R and add it to Eagan, you get Reagan. Not that I can get that to mean anything.
And there’s the Shetland fire festival of Up Helly Aa, of course, but apart from puerile sniggering, I can’t get that to mean anything either.
posted by Grangousier at 4:53 AM on March 5 [1 favorite]
According to Google Translate, Reghabi means “my desire” in Arabic, but I don’t know how reliable that is.
Anyway, lots of symbolic names.
posted by Grangousier at 5:21 AM on March 5
Anyway, lots of symbolic names.
posted by Grangousier at 5:21 AM on March 5
Severance: Director Jessica Lee Gagné Breaks Down Episode 7's Shocking Reveals [Esquire]
posted by ellieBOA at 7:44 AM on March 6
posted by ellieBOA at 7:44 AM on March 6
it's Thursday
posted by tzikeh at 8:32 AM on March 6 [2 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 8:32 AM on March 6 [2 favorites]
Odd that in Gagne’s interview she describes mark as someone who hasn’t really progress in his career, but he’s a history professor? Like that’s a really hard job to get , is prestigious, and highly coveted.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:06 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:06 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
And here's an interview with Gagné with lots of lovely technical details.
posted by Grangousier at 12:13 PM on March 6
posted by Grangousier at 12:13 PM on March 6
Odd that in Gagne’s interview she describes mark as someone who hasn’t really progress in his career, but he’s a history professor? Like that’s a really hard job to get , is prestigious, and highly coveted.
But we don't know if he's adjunct, or tenured, or what. This is the first episode we've ever seen him doing professor work at all, and it's just grading a student's term paper titled "All Quiet on the Western Blunt." But it also seems quite plausible that Mefites understand the "career ladder" of academia more clearly than Gagné, who has little reason to.
posted by pwnguin at 2:20 PM on March 6
But we don't know if he's adjunct, or tenured, or what. This is the first episode we've ever seen him doing professor work at all, and it's just grading a student's term paper titled "All Quiet on the Western Blunt." But it also seems quite plausible that Mefites understand the "career ladder" of academia more clearly than Gagné, who has little reason to.
posted by pwnguin at 2:20 PM on March 6
I’m an adjunct (in addition to my full time job) and would never refer to myself as a professor (although students do, and that’s fine) to other people or describe myself as one. It’s just weird that throughout the show, the only way he really gets to where he is in life is if he was the top student in his PhD cohort and was hugely ambitious. I think him leaving academia make sense given how much Gemma’s death destroyed him. But IME, people who leave academia are like people who leave the priesthood.
If he’s tenured or not is really a function of how long he’s worked there.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:50 PM on March 6
If he’s tenured or not is really a function of how long he’s worked there.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:50 PM on March 6
If he’s tenured or not is really a function of how long he’s worked there.
Well, I thought the subject was whether his career was progressing, and a depression fueled flame out leading to being denied tenure could qualify as not progressing. And I suppose a few odd and extremely ambitious faculty might wish to become a dean of some sort, but we have very little evidence to support that theory (or exclude it).
But my understanding is that generally you have five to seven years to earn tenure, so in some sense it is a function of longevity. So while a tenure-track position may be coveted as fuck, it's not the end of the career track, but kind of a start. The show is ambiguous about it that the director's comment could mean many things. Maybe this is his second or third tenure track position, maybe Gemma got an offer to somewhere better than Ganz, maybe she's just getting more citations or awards or grants or book deals or whatever metric you want to compare two professors by.
But if you want to be conspiratorial about it, maybe the university has Kier donors on their board and orchestrated his dismissal, though from the phrasing "freshman fluke" I get the impression they had no expectation or intent regarding hiring Mark.
posted by pwnguin at 5:58 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Well, I thought the subject was whether his career was progressing, and a depression fueled flame out leading to being denied tenure could qualify as not progressing. And I suppose a few odd and extremely ambitious faculty might wish to become a dean of some sort, but we have very little evidence to support that theory (or exclude it).
But my understanding is that generally you have five to seven years to earn tenure, so in some sense it is a function of longevity. So while a tenure-track position may be coveted as fuck, it's not the end of the career track, but kind of a start. The show is ambiguous about it that the director's comment could mean many things. Maybe this is his second or third tenure track position, maybe Gemma got an offer to somewhere better than Ganz, maybe she's just getting more citations or awards or grants or book deals or whatever metric you want to compare two professors by.
But if you want to be conspiratorial about it, maybe the university has Kier donors on their board and orchestrated his dismissal, though from the phrasing "freshman fluke" I get the impression they had no expectation or intent regarding hiring Mark.
posted by pwnguin at 5:58 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Happiness must be rigidly prioritized. (Lumon Management Program)
posted by mmoncur at 7:14 PM on March 6
posted by mmoncur at 7:14 PM on March 6
the paintings are an attempt to force the image through to Irving B.
That’s what I think, and why he got rid of them all once Irving B was fired.
posted by corb at 10:27 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
That’s what I think, and why he got rid of them all once Irving B was fired.
posted by corb at 10:27 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
During S1, Ms Casey said something like "I've been alive for 170 hours." At the time, that implied to me that she was in a box, in suspended animation, the rest of the time. But that, combined with this episode, makes It seem clear that Jemma must have multiple innies.
One consequence of the stress situations that all of her innies face would be heightened cortisol levels (and perhaps other hormones). That would take a toll, and not something the chip should be able to fix. It's clear that working six rooms in a day is hard on Jemma.
I forget exactly when it happened—during Milchick's performance review?—but the managers were criticizing his humanitarian improvements for the innies, and one of them said something like "we know what they are" With the unfilled blank in that statement being "slaves."
Also, I can't help but think of Stanley Milgrim when I hear the name Seth Milchick. That can't be just a coincidence. I had thought that the folks in MDR were not doing anything useful in their work and were simply lab rats pushing levers, but that hypothesis is increasingly untenable. Though they definitely are lab rats in addition to whatever work they're doing.
Tonally, S2 is so varied in contrast to S1 being so locked down. I'm enjoying that. It seems reflective of the situation for the severed folks.
posted by adamrice at 12:20 PM on March 28
One consequence of the stress situations that all of her innies face would be heightened cortisol levels (and perhaps other hormones). That would take a toll, and not something the chip should be able to fix. It's clear that working six rooms in a day is hard on Jemma.
I forget exactly when it happened—during Milchick's performance review?—but the managers were criticizing his humanitarian improvements for the innies, and one of them said something like "we know what they are" With the unfilled blank in that statement being "slaves."
Also, I can't help but think of Stanley Milgrim when I hear the name Seth Milchick. That can't be just a coincidence. I had thought that the folks in MDR were not doing anything useful in their work and were simply lab rats pushing levers, but that hypothesis is increasingly untenable. Though they definitely are lab rats in addition to whatever work they're doing.
Tonally, S2 is so varied in contrast to S1 being so locked down. I'm enjoying that. It seems reflective of the situation for the severed folks.
posted by adamrice at 12:20 PM on March 28
Coming in late, I know...
> Also it was the Sepinwall review of this episode that reminded me that Lachman's previous series Dollhouse (spoilers for a 15-year-old FOX show that never finished airing and was made by a horrible creep) had the twist that the technology was really developed for rich people to live forever in other people's bodies. It would be super weird for this series to go back to that well.
Dollhouse certainly did finish airing... Fox gave Whedon the opportunity to create an ending for the show. What gets me is that there isn't more chatter about Gemma having multiple innies and its similarity to the dolls on Dollhouse, who had one or more different personalities implanted in them each week. One of the best parts of Dichen Lachman's role on Severance is that her outie is really an outie, and tries to take control of her situation.
posted by lhauser at 4:49 PM on April 12
> Also it was the Sepinwall review of this episode that reminded me that Lachman's previous series Dollhouse (spoilers for a 15-year-old FOX show that never finished airing and was made by a horrible creep) had the twist that the technology was really developed for rich people to live forever in other people's bodies. It would be super weird for this series to go back to that well.
Dollhouse certainly did finish airing... Fox gave Whedon the opportunity to create an ending for the show. What gets me is that there isn't more chatter about Gemma having multiple innies and its similarity to the dolls on Dollhouse, who had one or more different personalities implanted in them each week. One of the best parts of Dichen Lachman's role on Severance is that her outie is really an outie, and tries to take control of her situation.
posted by lhauser at 4:49 PM on April 12
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Outie Gemma / Ms. Casey!
posted by Pronoiac at 6:09 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]