Doctor Who: Sleep No More
November 14, 2015 1:45 PM - Season 9, Episode 9 - Subscribe
This terrifying story is assembled from footage discovered in the wreckage of Le Verrier Space Station.
(Seriously Gatiss and Molotnikov knock it out of the park)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:46 PM on November 14, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:46 PM on November 14, 2015
This must be one of the worst Doctor Who episodes I have ever seen. Seriously, eye dust ?
posted by Pendragon at 3:33 PM on November 14, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 3:33 PM on November 14, 2015 [14 favorites]
I think this is just 'Under the lake' in space.
Some people are trapped in an enclosed structure, and are being hunted by mysterious creatures that convert them into creatures like themselves.
Anyone else notice the GLaDOS homage?
posted by FallowKing at 3:53 PM on November 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some people are trapped in an enclosed structure, and are being hunted by mysterious creatures that convert them into creatures like themselves.
Anyone else notice the GLaDOS homage?
posted by FallowKing at 3:53 PM on November 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's a traditional Dr Who story type, called Base Under Siege. I think writers who grew up as fans of the series (which includes Gatiss as well as Moffatt and Davies), enjoy doing something fiercely traditional (particularly if they can do something as fiercely untraditional as a found-footage episode at the same time).
It's basically the twelve bar blues of Dr Who stories.
I liked it. It was fun.
posted by Grangousier at 4:02 PM on November 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
It's basically the twelve bar blues of Dr Who stories.
I liked it. It was fun.
posted by Grangousier at 4:02 PM on November 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
did anyone else get a strong Babylon 5 vibe from the sleep Doctors base uniform?
posted by Faintdreams at 4:59 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 4:59 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
did anyone else get a strong Babylon 5 vibe from the sleep Doctors base uniform?
Yes.
I loved this, way, way more than I expected to. I had such low expectations going in.
The Sandmen were gloriously icky (helped, I suspect by the fact that I did have icky sleep in my eye), and the final scene would have terrified me as a kid (as the Scaroth reveal or the melting vampires did way back when).
So, Clara is still infected, and The Doctor failed to stop the signal, which means humanity in the 38th Century is doomed?
Honestly, when I saw Clara's name in the opening title card I thought she was a gonner this episode.
But, man, how rubbish were the colonial marines. I don't think they fired a shot until about 39 minutes in (unless they did early on and I skipped it).
I can't help but wonder if The Doctor will revisit Triton later this season.
And, it looks like next week is the much anticipated Harry Potter crossover.
posted by Mezentian at 6:06 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes.
I loved this, way, way more than I expected to. I had such low expectations going in.
The Sandmen were gloriously icky (helped, I suspect by the fact that I did have icky sleep in my eye), and the final scene would have terrified me as a kid (as the Scaroth reveal or the melting vampires did way back when).
So, Clara is still infected, and The Doctor failed to stop the signal, which means humanity in the 38th Century is doomed?
Honestly, when I saw Clara's name in the opening title card I thought she was a gonner this episode.
But, man, how rubbish were the colonial marines. I don't think they fired a shot until about 39 minutes in (unless they did early on and I skipped it).
I can't help but wonder if The Doctor will revisit Triton later this season.
And, it looks like next week is the much anticipated Harry Potter crossover.
posted by Mezentian at 6:06 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS
and
This must be one of the worst Doctor Who episodes I have ever seen. Seriously, eye dust ?
I do not know any other show that regularly gets such wildly diverse opinions as Doctor Who. I've been trying to watch this series once I get a sense of what people are saying about each episode/story but it's actually impossible because every week someone thinks it's the BEST EVER and someone else thinks it's WORST EVER.
I'm not a big fan of Gatiss' work on the show, so I'm still hedging on whether to watch this episode or not. This discussion is not helping.
posted by crossoverman at 7:22 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
and
This must be one of the worst Doctor Who episodes I have ever seen. Seriously, eye dust ?
I do not know any other show that regularly gets such wildly diverse opinions as Doctor Who. I've been trying to watch this series once I get a sense of what people are saying about each episode/story but it's actually impossible because every week someone thinks it's the BEST EVER and someone else thinks it's WORST EVER.
I'm not a big fan of Gatiss' work on the show, so I'm still hedging on whether to watch this episode or not. This discussion is not helping.
posted by crossoverman at 7:22 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm not a big fan of Gatiss' work on the show, "The Unquiet Dead" and "Night Terrors" were the only ones I really liked (I did enjoy all of his Virgin novels, in some way or other), so I was as surprised at how much I liked this as to how many reviews seem baffled by the plot.
(Which is baffling, and makes no sense, but I just didn't care).
posted by Mezentian at 7:32 PM on November 14, 2015
(Which is baffling, and makes no sense, but I just didn't care).
posted by Mezentian at 7:32 PM on November 14, 2015
I liked it. Mostly. Though, I have no idea what it is I just watched.
It almost felt like two or three half-ideas glued together with a lot of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam. The first bit had fun possibilities, what with the wacky holograms and whatnot. And, still with the sonic Wayfarers?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:51 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
It almost felt like two or three half-ideas glued together with a lot of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam. The first bit had fun possibilities, what with the wacky holograms and whatnot. And, still with the sonic Wayfarers?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:51 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
If Clara gets dead next week from F#CKING SLEEP DUST I will hunt Gatniss down like a dog.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:18 PM on November 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:18 PM on November 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
Nice Vindaloo monster.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:20 PM on November 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:20 PM on November 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Hrrm; this one really didn't land for me, and the final "there's something in the corner of your eye" warning felt to me very much like an attempt to ape the narrative ending of Blink.
(And yes, more than a touch of Red Dwarf in those corridors.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:25 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
(And yes, more than a touch of Red Dwarf in those corridors.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:25 PM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Doctor Who: Steven Moffat wants a Sleep No More sequel
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:08 AM on November 15, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:08 AM on November 15, 2015
I guess I'm just a sucker for things that combine Aliens with Ring
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:09 AM on November 15, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:09 AM on November 15, 2015
How about a prequel, where the monsters are made from warm milk and fluffy slippers?
posted by hawthorne at 2:26 AM on November 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by hawthorne at 2:26 AM on November 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Doctor Who: Steven Moffat wants a Sleep No More sequel
It needs a sequel, so it makes sense.
As much as I enjoyed it, at the moment it's very half-baked.
posted by Mezentian at 2:57 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
It needs a sequel, so it makes sense.
As much as I enjoyed it, at the moment it's very half-baked.
posted by Mezentian at 2:57 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, let's list the things now flowing through Clara's mind and body...
• Nano-whatevers from being put inside the Dalek shell by Missy
• Zygon thoughts and somethings
• Whatever it is that Morpheus does to you
Anything else? It almost seems she's being subtly picked to pieces. And, the Doctor has given her more than a few looks as if to say "WTF is wrong with you?"
posted by Thorzdad at 5:15 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
• Nano-whatevers from being put inside the Dalek shell by Missy
• Zygon thoughts and somethings
• Whatever it is that Morpheus does to you
Anything else? It almost seems she's being subtly picked to pieces. And, the Doctor has given her more than a few looks as if to say "WTF is wrong with you?"
posted by Thorzdad at 5:15 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I got the Red Dwarf vibe too, which I don't think is a positive thing. Certainly that (inexplicably) Geordie soldier, pet, would have been more at home in a comedy, pet. The rest of the characters were even more paper-thin than the bunch in Under the Lake, so who cares when they're getting picked off?
I did think the slowly disintegrating Rasmussen at the end was a great, creepy image. Otherwise the found-footage conceit was done in quite a half-arsed way, and it felt a bit too over-familiar and dull. Having the big Japanese mask thing ("looks like a Japanese restaurant in space") was at least not quite as awful a national-stereotypes-in-spaaace moment as the sombreros on the Mexican base in the moon episode last year...
posted by sobarel at 5:20 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I did think the slowly disintegrating Rasmussen at the end was a great, creepy image. Otherwise the found-footage conceit was done in quite a half-arsed way, and it felt a bit too over-familiar and dull. Having the big Japanese mask thing ("looks like a Japanese restaurant in space") was at least not quite as awful a national-stereotypes-in-spaaace moment as the sombreros on the Mexican base in the moon episode last year...
posted by sobarel at 5:20 AM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
This one didn't really work for me. I didn't really come to care for the characters and it was one of those stories where the more they tried to explain things the less I believed them. Also I was expecting it to do that tiresome horror movie trope where all the characters of color die and one or two white characters survive.
The shakycam footage was even clumsier than usual in these sorts of stories--its editing resulted in odd things like Nagata blinking out of existence in the shot where they're running to the Tardis--did she make it in or not? I'd expect some shot inside to confirm, but there wasn't one showing everyone who survived, just a POV shot of one of the Sandmen attacking the Tardis. And (as We had a deal, Kyle says) between that and the ending it struck me as a poor man's Blink.
It didn't help that I watched it on amazon and it didn't play any opening titles, so I was distracted for a bit wondering when they would play them, then deciding that they wouldn't, then wondering if there wasn't something in Coleman's and Capaldi's contracts about having to show their names in the opening titles, etc.
posted by johnofjack at 5:31 AM on November 15, 2015
The shakycam footage was even clumsier than usual in these sorts of stories--its editing resulted in odd things like Nagata blinking out of existence in the shot where they're running to the Tardis--did she make it in or not? I'd expect some shot inside to confirm, but there wasn't one showing everyone who survived, just a POV shot of one of the Sandmen attacking the Tardis. And (as We had a deal, Kyle says) between that and the ending it struck me as a poor man's Blink.
It didn't help that I watched it on amazon and it didn't play any opening titles, so I was distracted for a bit wondering when they would play them, then deciding that they wouldn't, then wondering if there wasn't something in Coleman's and Capaldi's contracts about having to show their names in the opening titles, etc.
posted by johnofjack at 5:31 AM on November 15, 2015
That wasn't an Amazon thing, for the first time in the show's history there was no opening title sequence.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:15 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by plastic_animals at 6:15 AM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm imagining the sequel as starting off with SandmanRasmussen giving a rehash of the previous episode, then turning to someone offscreen and saying "and you had something you wanted to say too, didn't you?" Then he moves out of the way and a member of The Silence sits down in front of the camera. "You will watch this intently," it says. "With at least two of your friends or family members." Then there's the glitch indicating that you've just been sent the signal that rewires your brain to create Sandmen. Cut to opening credits. Real-world viewers everywhere issue a collective groan as they realize they're going to get a medley of Gatiss/Moffat monsters having to do with watching.
The Doctor and Clara arrive on scene (in this case not a base, but the middle of a metropolis ... but one with mostly empty streets) and discover that the few people on the streets are clustered around television sets in shop windows. The program they're watching seems fairly mundane and uninteresting, but people can't stop watching. There are Smilers here and there. As the Doctor and Clara walk past, they turn their heads to show a pointy-toothed frown, but they don't do anything else. The Wire cuts in to the program and asks everyone if they're sitting comfortably. The Doctor is shaking his head saying "no, no, no, I beat you," and then The Silence returns and instructs the viewers to confess to each other the worst things they've ever done.
People everywhere begin telling each other stories alluding to physical and sexual abuse, adultery, murder ... it's pandemonium as the city fills with the sounds of arguing, fistfights, the occasional loud boom. People are dying left and right but the Doctor's not trying to figure out what's going on and how to stop it; instead he's telling Clara about what he did in the Time War before he went back in time to stop himself. He interrupts himself with "come on, Clara, we must run." "Where are we going?" she says. "To the nearest flat! Quickly! Running pads out the episodes with not enough content, and gives a sense of urgency." As they're running, the Doctor huffs out his continued confession.
Just past a burning rubbish bin, they burst through the front door and into the living room with a family in the middle of an argument. The Doctor is ignoring them, looking around the room, sonic-ing the TV set, and still talking about the Time War. In the background, on the love seat, there's an out-of-focus camouflage monster under a knitted blanket. Clara is listening to him, unaware of it and increasingly indignant, but also impatient because she has so many things to confess herself. The Doctor tells her that he must reverse the neutron flow to disrupt the handwavium, and runs to the kitchen to find a spatula and a colander.
The TV set cuts to the image of a Weeping Angel, facing away from the camera, then cuts to The Wire, who begins sucking the family's faces off. Around the city, Sandmen in the shadows begin moving towards the few remaining viewers, but The Doctor and Clara are arguing while the Doctor puts together some elaborate absurd contraption. Clara's just told the Doctor the worst thing she's ever done, but he scoffed and said "oh, that's it? That's the worst thing you've ever done?"
Clara calls the Doctor a hypocritical self-righteous git who's so narcissistic that he's competitive even in his self-recrimination. The Doctor says it was a mistake coming back to spend more time with her; he should have left her dead. Clara is gobsmacked. "Dead? Dead? When were you going to tell me?"
"Oh Clara," the Doctor says. "I've been telling you for months."
On TV The Wire is gone and the Weeping Angel has begun to turn towards the faceless family, who are standing completely oblivious. In the kitchen, the Sandmen have stepped out of the pantry and are just a few steps from Clara and the Doctor. They roar their hunger.
Roll end credits, followed by "Next time: The Doctor vs. the Half-Baked Metatextual Conceits!" Credits continue, then are interrupted by The Silence, who says "You will watch this. You will not watch Rear Window instead."
posted by johnofjack at 7:10 AM on November 15, 2015 [12 favorites]
The Doctor and Clara arrive on scene (in this case not a base, but the middle of a metropolis ... but one with mostly empty streets) and discover that the few people on the streets are clustered around television sets in shop windows. The program they're watching seems fairly mundane and uninteresting, but people can't stop watching. There are Smilers here and there. As the Doctor and Clara walk past, they turn their heads to show a pointy-toothed frown, but they don't do anything else. The Wire cuts in to the program and asks everyone if they're sitting comfortably. The Doctor is shaking his head saying "no, no, no, I beat you," and then The Silence returns and instructs the viewers to confess to each other the worst things they've ever done.
People everywhere begin telling each other stories alluding to physical and sexual abuse, adultery, murder ... it's pandemonium as the city fills with the sounds of arguing, fistfights, the occasional loud boom. People are dying left and right but the Doctor's not trying to figure out what's going on and how to stop it; instead he's telling Clara about what he did in the Time War before he went back in time to stop himself. He interrupts himself with "come on, Clara, we must run." "Where are we going?" she says. "To the nearest flat! Quickly! Running pads out the episodes with not enough content, and gives a sense of urgency." As they're running, the Doctor huffs out his continued confession.
Just past a burning rubbish bin, they burst through the front door and into the living room with a family in the middle of an argument. The Doctor is ignoring them, looking around the room, sonic-ing the TV set, and still talking about the Time War. In the background, on the love seat, there's an out-of-focus camouflage monster under a knitted blanket. Clara is listening to him, unaware of it and increasingly indignant, but also impatient because she has so many things to confess herself. The Doctor tells her that he must reverse the neutron flow to disrupt the handwavium, and runs to the kitchen to find a spatula and a colander.
The TV set cuts to the image of a Weeping Angel, facing away from the camera, then cuts to The Wire, who begins sucking the family's faces off. Around the city, Sandmen in the shadows begin moving towards the few remaining viewers, but The Doctor and Clara are arguing while the Doctor puts together some elaborate absurd contraption. Clara's just told the Doctor the worst thing she's ever done, but he scoffed and said "oh, that's it? That's the worst thing you've ever done?"
Clara calls the Doctor a hypocritical self-righteous git who's so narcissistic that he's competitive even in his self-recrimination. The Doctor says it was a mistake coming back to spend more time with her; he should have left her dead. Clara is gobsmacked. "Dead? Dead? When were you going to tell me?"
"Oh Clara," the Doctor says. "I've been telling you for months."
On TV The Wire is gone and the Weeping Angel has begun to turn towards the faceless family, who are standing completely oblivious. In the kitchen, the Sandmen have stepped out of the pantry and are just a few steps from Clara and the Doctor. They roar their hunger.
Roll end credits, followed by "Next time: The Doctor vs. the Half-Baked Metatextual Conceits!" Credits continue, then are interrupted by The Silence, who says "You will watch this. You will not watch Rear Window instead."
posted by johnofjack at 7:10 AM on November 15, 2015 [12 favorites]
Steven Moffat wants a Sleep No More sequel
Of course he does: same as he overplayed the Weeping Angels instead of leaving them as a single, brilliant standalone.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
Of course he does: same as he overplayed the Weeping Angels instead of leaving them as a single, brilliant standalone.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm frankly more terrified that Moffat will read johnofjack's comment than I am of dying in my sleep.
I absolutely hated this episode. I was angry at my television for displaying it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
I absolutely hated this episode. I was angry at my television for displaying it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
And, it looks like next week is the much anticipated Harry Potter crossover.
Possibly a three way DW-HP-GoT crossover since that sounded like Maisie Williams on the 'Next Time' voiceover about the raven.
a lot of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam
When a man is tired of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam, he is tired of Doctor Who.
posted by biffa at 11:20 AM on November 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
Possibly a three way DW-HP-GoT crossover since that sounded like Maisie Williams on the 'Next Time' voiceover about the raven.
a lot of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam
When a man is tired of running around, bad lighting, and shakey-cam, he is tired of Doctor Who.
posted by biffa at 11:20 AM on November 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
When I got through with that, my question was "did the Doctor lose?" and then I watched the iTunes "confidential lite" thing for this episode and yeah, he did. While I thought it was otherwise a standard base under siege episode, and a very Hinchliffian one at that (shades of the Four + Leela ep on the robot sand crawler whose name escapes me), the fact that the Doctor didn't pull a victory out was shocking to me. I wondered if he didn't see it as a fixed time moment and just let the disaster happen. Then they said no, they were going back to the older episodes where the Doctor was sometimes happy to get out alive, and I was pretty happy about that.
I'm not a great fan of the found footage and shakycam, but I thought it worked here. Bad lighting is essential, because the monsters are scarier when you imagine what you can't see clearly.
Loved the scientist dude, though. I wondered if his costume came straight of out some Who/B7 bin where they'd stored it since it was made in 1975 and reused in 1980. And his early 80s-style glasses. So good!
posted by immlass at 12:01 PM on November 15, 2015
I'm not a great fan of the found footage and shakycam, but I thought it worked here. Bad lighting is essential, because the monsters are scarier when you imagine what you can't see clearly.
Loved the scientist dude, though. I wondered if his costume came straight of out some Who/B7 bin where they'd stored it since it was made in 1975 and reused in 1980. And his early 80s-style glasses. So good!
posted by immlass at 12:01 PM on November 15, 2015
Sort of surprised this *isn't* part one of two parter.
So, a dangling cliffhanger...
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2015
So, a dangling cliffhanger...
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2015
This was the only episode so far this season that I did not enjoy. Beyond that, I am not sure that this was not the least watchable single episode of modern Who.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 5:54 PM on November 15, 2015
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 5:54 PM on November 15, 2015
The Doctor didn't win, no. He also didn't save anyone's life, figure or what was happening, discover compassion for a new species, or recognize the humanity in an enslaved and unvalued person. The Doctor did... nothing.
posted by meese at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by meese at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
I loved this episode. The idea of footage from major characters eyes (not cameras) was brilliant -- I wish they had more time to explore it. The theme of technology for avoiding sleep gone wrong was frighteningly realistic. And I loved that the Doctor can fight hard, use all his tricks, and still utterly screw up and allow an entire planet to get destroyed. Not in my top 10 because the monsters were silly and not that scary, but one of the best of the season.
posted by miyabo at 8:01 PM on November 15, 2015
posted by miyabo at 8:01 PM on November 15, 2015
This was not a Doctor Who episode - this was someone's second-year-of-film-school screenplay they wrote at 3 am Sunday after a weekend-long SF/horror movie binge. Somehow this screenplay wound up on the set and no-one could find the real script so they just went ahead and shot it.
Adding the now entirely worn-out "found footage" schtick and the "signal embedded in media makes bad things happen" schtick and the "more Aliens than Aliens" schtick and the "Evil is talking to YOU THE VIEWER ending" schtick to a standard-issue Doctor Who 'Base Under Siege' story made for an episode that was far less than the sum of its parts.
Plus, as meese says, the Doctor did . . . . . nothing. He wasn't even entertainingly crabby and impatient.
(And I bow to no-one in my love for SF & horror films and their tropes. There's just no point watching them done badly all mashed up together in a Doctor Who episode. The goofy "Robin Hood" episode was more clever and better crafted than this one. And made more sense.)
posted by soundguy99 at 8:27 PM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Adding the now entirely worn-out "found footage" schtick and the "signal embedded in media makes bad things happen" schtick and the "more Aliens than Aliens" schtick and the "Evil is talking to YOU THE VIEWER ending" schtick to a standard-issue Doctor Who 'Base Under Siege' story made for an episode that was far less than the sum of its parts.
Plus, as meese says, the Doctor did . . . . . nothing. He wasn't even entertainingly crabby and impatient.
(And I bow to no-one in my love for SF & horror films and their tropes. There's just no point watching them done badly all mashed up together in a Doctor Who episode. The goofy "Robin Hood" episode was more clever and better crafted than this one. And made more sense.)
posted by soundguy99 at 8:27 PM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
This was not a Doctor Who episode - this was someone's second-year-of-film-school screenplay they wrote at 3 am Sunday after a weekend-long SF/horror movie binge.
I came here to say exactly this. I've sat through many enjoyable episodes that people here would tear apart for no reason I could easily discern. But boy, this one was a stinker in so many ways. The all-too-worn "trapped on a base with monsters" trope, the frankly shoddy workmanship of the clone/whatever soldier (stripes on his face? I don't even), the ridiculous monsters both in concept & execution, the plodding pace; I could go on & on. It actually took setting it aside every 10 minutes & coming back after an hour of something else just to haul myself across the finish line. I think this is the first episode of modern Who that I just didn't enjoy at all. All of you that liked it are just wrong.
posted by scalefree at 10:45 PM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I came here to say exactly this. I've sat through many enjoyable episodes that people here would tear apart for no reason I could easily discern. But boy, this one was a stinker in so many ways. The all-too-worn "trapped on a base with monsters" trope, the frankly shoddy workmanship of the clone/whatever soldier (stripes on his face? I don't even), the ridiculous monsters both in concept & execution, the plodding pace; I could go on & on. It actually took setting it aside every 10 minutes & coming back after an hour of something else just to haul myself across the finish line. I think this is the first episode of modern Who that I just didn't enjoy at all. All of you that liked it are just wrong.
posted by scalefree at 10:45 PM on November 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
shades of the Four + Leela ep on the robot sand crawler whose name escapes me
The Robots of Death.
That one is a real classic.
posted by Mezentian at 11:21 PM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Robots of Death.
That one is a real classic.
posted by Mezentian at 11:21 PM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
From here, where they didnt hate it (like these guys):
The lifelong Who obsessive apparently asked Gatiss whether this episode was linked to the 1974 story The Sun Makers, because that was also set in the 38th century. He had no idea.
I had the same thought, although, I didn't know what century the Sun Makers was (and... it does seem to conflict with the Peladon dating controversy).
Man, the 38th must really suck. Earth is destroyed, and people have to live on the outer plants, under regimes who tax you to the hilt, and make you work like a dog.
posted by Mezentian at 12:57 AM on November 16, 2015
The lifelong Who obsessive apparently asked Gatiss whether this episode was linked to the 1974 story The Sun Makers, because that was also set in the 38th century. He had no idea.
I had the same thought, although, I didn't know what century the Sun Makers was (and... it does seem to conflict with the Peladon dating controversy).
Man, the 38th must really suck. Earth is destroyed, and people have to live on the outer plants, under regimes who tax you to the hilt, and make you work like a dog.
posted by Mezentian at 12:57 AM on November 16, 2015
Reece Shearsmith!!! glados! curry monster! ok I had fun watching this episode.
(hey that makes me think we should do League of Gentlemen on fanfare)
also, I think that the monsters aren't necessarily derived from eye-dust, that was just the Doctor's kooky theory, and Rassmusen went along with it to keep the story he was telling in the video moving along. He does end the video by saying "there's something in your eye" and laughing, like that was a great joke. We don't really know what the monsters are, or how much of that story is a product of rassmussen-monster's editing/fabrication.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:47 AM on November 16, 2015
(hey that makes me think we should do League of Gentlemen on fanfare)
also, I think that the monsters aren't necessarily derived from eye-dust, that was just the Doctor's kooky theory, and Rassmusen went along with it to keep the story he was telling in the video moving along. He does end the video by saying "there's something in your eye" and laughing, like that was a great joke. We don't really know what the monsters are, or how much of that story is a product of rassmussen-monster's editing/fabrication.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:47 AM on November 16, 2015
All of you that liked it are just wrong.
This will be carved in ten-foot-high letters over the front door of the Ministry of Fandom.
posted by Grangousier at 2:23 AM on November 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
This will be carved in ten-foot-high letters over the front door of the Ministry of Fandom.
posted by Grangousier at 2:23 AM on November 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
This will be carved in ten-foot-high letters over the front door of the Ministry of Fandom.
Will heretics be hung from the sign?
posted by Mezentian at 3:35 AM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Will heretics be hung from the sign?
posted by Mezentian at 3:35 AM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Doctor Who: Sleep No More: Mark Gatiss discusses the episode
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:03 AM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:03 AM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Will heretics be hung from the sign?
Tsch. This is the twenty-first century. We won't countenance such barbarism here. Though it is true that if People of Deviant Opinion return from the Re-education Camps with their wrongthoughts intact something radical will have to be done to them. Possibly involving enhanced voltages, I haven't decided yet.
posted by Grangousier at 5:40 AM on November 16, 2015
Tsch. This is the twenty-first century. We won't countenance such barbarism here. Though it is true that if People of Deviant Opinion return from the Re-education Camps with their wrongthoughts intact something radical will have to be done to them. Possibly involving enhanced voltages, I haven't decided yet.
posted by Grangousier at 5:40 AM on November 16, 2015
Oh, and I was thinking about Gatiss and Moffat and the difference between them. I think Moffat is a naturally clever person, from whom cleverness flows like a fluid of your choice from its former receptacle. On the other hand I think Gatiss is someone isn't naturally clever but who likes and admires cleverness and tries to stick as much of it in his writing as possible. But the problem is that he has to try, so there's something a bit stiff and unnatural about his cleverness, and it means that he sometimes misses out on things that the piece of writing would benefit from (such as giving his characters personalities).
I'm not suggesting that cleverness is automatically a good thing that Gatiss just fails at, and I wouldn't want to suggest that it's automatically a bad thing that should be banished. It's certainly something that one might wish to turn off every so often (the point for me is usually the third episode of any new series of QI). But I do think that Gatiss' scripts would benefit were he to write something more in his nature, which might be broad comedy or it might be melodrama, I really don't know.
That said, I find it perfectly easy to enjoy this episode's stoutly traditional form - the doomed space station, the shambling monsters, the cackling villain and steadily depleting supply of cardboard troops could just as easily brushed up against any of the original run's Doctors - and the stunt production was equally as fun. Perhaps they sat uneasily together, though, like a film of a pantomime directed by Ken Loach.
posted by Grangousier at 5:54 AM on November 16, 2015
I'm not suggesting that cleverness is automatically a good thing that Gatiss just fails at, and I wouldn't want to suggest that it's automatically a bad thing that should be banished. It's certainly something that one might wish to turn off every so often (the point for me is usually the third episode of any new series of QI). But I do think that Gatiss' scripts would benefit were he to write something more in his nature, which might be broad comedy or it might be melodrama, I really don't know.
That said, I find it perfectly easy to enjoy this episode's stoutly traditional form - the doomed space station, the shambling monsters, the cackling villain and steadily depleting supply of cardboard troops could just as easily brushed up against any of the original run's Doctors - and the stunt production was equally as fun. Perhaps they sat uneasily together, though, like a film of a pantomime directed by Ken Loach.
posted by Grangousier at 5:54 AM on November 16, 2015
What I really liked about this episode was the early scene where the rescue team happens upon the Doctor and Clara strolling on the station making small talk. That third person perspective of treating the Doctor and companion as two oddball, out-of-place, strangers is something that we've rarely seen in the show.
posted by plastic_animals at 9:04 AM on November 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 9:04 AM on November 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
The direction and general production values of this reminded me very strongly of one of the 50th anniversary prequels The Last Day. Combined with things like no title card, this felt a lot like something other than Who. The plot on the other hand seemed very lacking though, which is what Gatiss does very well.
I do like this idea of making a sequel though. We've had the Zygon follow-up to the 50th anniversary, so perhaps we only have to wait a series and a half before this story makes sense.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 3:31 AM on November 17, 2015
I do like this idea of making a sequel though. We've had the Zygon follow-up to the 50th anniversary, so perhaps we only have to wait a series and a half before this story makes sense.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 3:31 AM on November 17, 2015
This was abysmal. Marines who don't shoot at anything, monsters made from eye gunk, abrupt non-ending, monsters made from eye gunk, monsters made from eye gunk.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:22 PM on November 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
monsters made from eye gunk
I'm honestly confused. The Doctor thought they were eye gunk monsters, but didn't they turn out to be people who had been converted by the Morpheus process? Wasn't the point of the ending that by watching you are now infected and will turn into a Sandman as well?
But I don't know how to reconcile that with all the dust also being cameras. Although that bit makes no sense either way. The "we don't have helmet cams" was a big reveal that had no bearing on the plot as far as I can tell.
posted by Gary at 4:08 PM on November 17, 2015
I'm honestly confused. The Doctor thought they were eye gunk monsters, but didn't they turn out to be people who had been converted by the Morpheus process? Wasn't the point of the ending that by watching you are now infected and will turn into a Sandman as well?
But I don't know how to reconcile that with all the dust also being cameras. Although that bit makes no sense either way. The "we don't have helmet cams" was a big reveal that had no bearing on the plot as far as I can tell.
posted by Gary at 4:08 PM on November 17, 2015
This felt like the Doctor wandered into a non-Who story, rubber suited monsters in pursuit. First there's the scene plastic_animals mentions. Then the camera work is so different; the Doctor's magnetism is not making him steal every scene he's in. In one scene, he's reduced to a background character, idly watching Clara do something (open the sleep capsule). There are shots featuring the back of his head. Key action sequences involving Clara and the Doctor happen offscreen, as when Clara is sucked into the sleep pod. And they fail, and run away via barely seen Tardis, with the Doctor exclaiming "none of this makes any sense!" Because this isn't their story.
Even a funny aside about when does the Doctor sleep is subtly undermining the normal conventions about how we see and think about him.
The most normal focus on the Doctor in this episode is when we're seeing him through the eyes of his companion. We're used to that viewpoint; we're companions too.
posted by joeyh at 9:07 PM on November 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even a funny aside about when does the Doctor sleep is subtly undermining the normal conventions about how we see and think about him.
The most normal focus on the Doctor in this episode is when we're seeing him through the eyes of his companion. We're used to that viewpoint; we're companions too.
posted by joeyh at 9:07 PM on November 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
I bet some of you folks didn't find it entirely convincing when in The Happiness Patrol the Doctor escapes Kandy Man by spilling a bottle of lemonade on the floor, thus making it a bit sticky.
posted by hawthorne at 12:36 AM on November 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by hawthorne at 12:36 AM on November 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
The Doctor thought they were eye gunk monsters, but didn't they turn out to be people who had been converted by the Morpheus process?
True, but for 70% of the episode, after the Doctor explained that "they must be monsters formed from eye gunk, which is made from skin cells and so of course will eventually turn into a monster", we operated under the assumption that they were monsters made of eye gunk. The twist ending doesn't make the rest of the episode, or the Doctor's proposed explanation, any less stupid.
And they fail, and run away via barely seen Tardis, with the Doctor exclaiming "none of this makes any sense!" Because this isn't their story.
I was SO CONVINCED that at the end it would turn out that they'd all been sucked into sleep pods and this was a shared dream (the whole "this doesn't make sense" thing --> dreams don't make sense). But no. It just ended.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:12 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
True, but for 70% of the episode, after the Doctor explained that "they must be monsters formed from eye gunk, which is made from skin cells and so of course will eventually turn into a monster", we operated under the assumption that they were monsters made of eye gunk. The twist ending doesn't make the rest of the episode, or the Doctor's proposed explanation, any less stupid.
And they fail, and run away via barely seen Tardis, with the Doctor exclaiming "none of this makes any sense!" Because this isn't their story.
I was SO CONVINCED that at the end it would turn out that they'd all been sucked into sleep pods and this was a shared dream (the whole "this doesn't make sense" thing --> dreams don't make sense). But no. It just ended.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:12 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Finally got to this last night. While I didn't hate it I don't know if it works entirely for me.
I thought the conceit of "found footage" worked better than I expected. I've come to really loathe how its been used in films in recent years but I think it works here. As others have mentioned it offers a different vantage point to see Clara & the Doctor. I think Nu Who always benefits from these moments where characters other than Doctor & his companions are the focus. I thought the design overall was good in this as well.
As for the story, I thought it pretty thin and uneven. I don't need a full explanation but I would have liked something better than what we got. It felt rushed to me. As if Gatiss wanted a base-under-siege story, had the idea of making monsters out of "sleep dust" and wanted to give a role to his League of Gentleman buddy Reece Shearsmith. That really seems like the extent of it.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2015
I thought the conceit of "found footage" worked better than I expected. I've come to really loathe how its been used in films in recent years but I think it works here. As others have mentioned it offers a different vantage point to see Clara & the Doctor. I think Nu Who always benefits from these moments where characters other than Doctor & his companions are the focus. I thought the design overall was good in this as well.
As for the story, I thought it pretty thin and uneven. I don't need a full explanation but I would have liked something better than what we got. It felt rushed to me. As if Gatiss wanted a base-under-siege story, had the idea of making monsters out of "sleep dust" and wanted to give a role to his League of Gentleman buddy Reece Shearsmith. That really seems like the extent of it.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2015
IIRC one of the soldiers eyerolled the eye gunk theory as soon as the Doctor proposed it. So it's not meant to be believable, even in-story.
Maybe what makes some uncomfortable about this is, it's showing the Doctor/companions as unreliable narrators. Maybe they're always bungling through, making up bad theories, escaping at the end in deus ex Tardis, and then retelling it in classic nu-Who style.
The way to cement this of course, would be for the sequel to do just that, redo the episode in the usual style.
posted by joeyh at 8:56 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Maybe what makes some uncomfortable about this is, it's showing the Doctor/companions as unreliable narrators. Maybe they're always bungling through, making up bad theories, escaping at the end in deus ex Tardis, and then retelling it in classic nu-Who style.
The way to cement this of course, would be for the sequel to do just that, redo the episode in the usual style.
posted by joeyh at 8:56 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm reminded a lot of the fake realities in Amy's Choice, but that may in part be because I keep misremembering Amy's Choice as being by Gattis.
posted by Artw at 9:06 AM on November 18, 2015
posted by Artw at 9:06 AM on November 18, 2015
The eye snot monsters could be read as a follow-on to ideas raised a few times in Capaldi's era. Mainly that in order for people to survive you have to give them hope. Defining and naming the monster, even if it is BS, does that as the rescue team is then fighting a known enemy rather than an unknown one.
posted by plastic_animals at 1:35 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by plastic_animals at 1:35 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think we'll be getting a sequel.
It, officially (as officially as is gauged), sucked almost as much as Love And Monsters: Doctor Who: Sleep No More had an Audience Appreciation or AI score of 78.
The score is the lowest the series has received since the 2006 story Love & Monsters which scored 76.
posted by Mezentian at 11:49 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
It, officially (as officially as is gauged), sucked almost as much as Love And Monsters: Doctor Who: Sleep No More had an Audience Appreciation or AI score of 78.
The score is the lowest the series has received since the 2006 story Love & Monsters which scored 76.
posted by Mezentian at 11:49 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just - willingly - rewatched it.
It hangs together better than I realised (and, yes, I enjoyed it the first time).
457/747/794 has a really good arc. She notice the eyedust cams right away.Rassmussan's suit is *very* Frontios.
I think a lot of the nonsense actually holds up, aside from the fact the marines don't shoot.
Except the point. It doesn't make sense.
posted by Mezentian at 6:30 AM on November 19, 2015
It hangs together better than I realised (and, yes, I enjoyed it the first time).
457/747/794 has a really good arc. She notice the eyedust cams right away.Rassmussan's suit is *very* Frontios.
I think a lot of the nonsense actually holds up, aside from the fact the marines don't shoot.
Except the point. It doesn't make sense.
posted by Mezentian at 6:30 AM on November 19, 2015
I could understand if they'd played them up as the "useless squad" who are sent on trivial, meaningless missions, or a bunch of new recruits. But they aren't really shown like that, and the clone/vat-grown solder is specifically said to unthinkingly react to violent threats, and even he doesn't shoot at anything.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:48 AM on November 19, 2015
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:48 AM on November 19, 2015
One throwaway comment about airlock pressure, space station shields, or some other bunch of sci-fi words and they could have at lampshaded the whole "not shooting at things". 474 being a grown soldier is an interesting idea that doesn't really go anywhere. Actually, there's a lot of interesting world building in here for an episode that doesn't make use of any of it.
posted by Gary at 1:56 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Gary at 1:56 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ehh... Shooting things so seldom works I didn't give it a seconds though.
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on November 19, 2015
and the clone/vat-grown solder is specifically said to unthinkingly react to violent threats, and even he doesn't shoot at anything.
She.
Although, to be fair, I didn't really realise that to well into the episode first time around.
457 is also, actually, one of the smartest members of Useless Squad, if you rewatch it.
posted by Mezentian at 11:11 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
She.
Although, to be fair, I didn't really realise that to well into the episode first time around.
457 is also, actually, one of the smartest members of Useless Squad, if you rewatch it.
posted by Mezentian at 11:11 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
even he doesn't shoot at anything
She. You'd have to watch it again to verify it, but 474 is she.
posted by Grangousier at 12:37 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
She. You'd have to watch it again to verify it, but 474 is she.
posted by Grangousier at 12:37 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Huh, totally missed that, sorry.
One throwaway comment about airlock pressure, space station shields, or some other bunch of sci-fi words and they could have at lampshaded the whole "not shooting at things".
Yeah, all it needed was some comment about being right under the primary heat-exchangers and worrying about rupturing the cooling system, or the station having a substantial dollar value attached to it...
That said I did appreciate the officer shooting Rassmussen in the end, a rare example of someone saying "fuck that guy" and straight-up killing the bad guy on Dr Who (I also liked it when UNIT used the Death Star laser on the retreating alien ship in The Christmas Invasion).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:06 AM on November 20, 2015
One throwaway comment about airlock pressure, space station shields, or some other bunch of sci-fi words and they could have at lampshaded the whole "not shooting at things".
Yeah, all it needed was some comment about being right under the primary heat-exchangers and worrying about rupturing the cooling system, or the station having a substantial dollar value attached to it...
That said I did appreciate the officer shooting Rassmussen in the end, a rare example of someone saying "fuck that guy" and straight-up killing the bad guy on Dr Who (I also liked it when UNIT used the Death Star laser on the retreating alien ship in The Christmas Invasion).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:06 AM on November 20, 2015
She. You'd have to watch it again to verify it, but 474 is she.
I'm actually surprised this issue has taken a week to surface here.
At the risk of wading into a hand mine field:
There was all sorts of hoopla when Bethany Black was cast, and I don't know about anyone else, but it then slipped under my radar.
When I first saw this episode, I thought 456 was male, and then female, and then male, and then female.
It was only the day after, when I saw the casting that it made sense.
I'd never heard of her before, and a week on I have no additional information, and I'd not venture an opinion about how well the casting went, or what kind of outrages arose from said casting, but I think it would be interesting to see a Grunt again.
(I also liked it when UNIT used the Death Star laser on the retreating alien ship in The Christmas Invasion).
That was TORCHWOOD, not UNIT.
posted by Mezentian at 6:07 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm actually surprised this issue has taken a week to surface here.
At the risk of wading into a hand mine field:
There was all sorts of hoopla when Bethany Black was cast, and I don't know about anyone else, but it then slipped under my radar.
When I first saw this episode, I thought 456 was male, and then female, and then male, and then female.
It was only the day after, when I saw the casting that it made sense.
I'd never heard of her before, and a week on I have no additional information, and I'd not venture an opinion about how well the casting went, or what kind of outrages arose from said casting, but I think it would be interesting to see a Grunt again.
(I also liked it when UNIT used the Death Star laser on the retreating alien ship in The Christmas Invasion).
That was TORCHWOOD, not UNIT.
posted by Mezentian at 6:07 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
474 being a grown soldier is an interesting idea that doesn't really go anywhere.
Eh. It's basically "Sontarans as good guys who aren't comic relief."
... And now I'm expecting an episode during Moffat's tenure in which it's revealed that the Doctor inadvertently created the Sontarans.
posted by johnofjack at 3:47 PM on November 20, 2015
Eh. It's basically "Sontarans as good guys who aren't comic relief."
... And now I'm expecting an episode during Moffat's tenure in which it's revealed that the Doctor inadvertently created the Sontarans.
posted by johnofjack at 3:47 PM on November 20, 2015
WAITWAITWAIT... they're eye boogers?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:58 PM on November 21, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:58 PM on November 21, 2015
This is some silly-ass bullshit.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:15 PM on November 21, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:15 PM on November 21, 2015
This is some silly-ass bullshit.
How would you rate it against The Creature From The Pit?
posted by Mezentian at 5:13 AM on November 23, 2015
How would you rate it against The Creature From The Pit?
posted by Mezentian at 5:13 AM on November 23, 2015
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posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:45 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]