Vikings: On The Eve
January 26, 2017 8:43 AM - Season 4, Episode 19 - Subscribe
In an action-focused episode, Ragnar's sons turn their attack to King Ecbert and Aethelwulf, while Lagertha fends off an attack on Kattegat.
I mean, like, I don't think I've ever been to a museum and seen a display of a model of a city's defenses marked as some sort of vintage historic item.
i'm pretty sure i saw some old roman stuff of that nature in some european museum or another but tbh all of my time spent in europe is kind of a blur.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:05 PM on January 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
i'm pretty sure i saw some old roman stuff of that nature in some european museum or another but tbh all of my time spent in europe is kind of a blur.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:05 PM on January 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I want to say the Egyptians had scale models...but who knows, maybe that's Raiders getting into my brain.
I welcomed the battle at Kattegat(sp) if only to revolve most of that storyline advancing King Harald. I thought it was pretty clear that apparently everyone but Harald knew women better, and I also figured why reveal Harald's duplicity to Lagertha if the grieving widow is going to get her revenge. I enjoyed the battle generally, though RIP Torvi. I figured either her or Astrid was going to perish, so I guess the writers are more interested in the Mother-Astrid-Son triangle.
On other battles, I have a hate/love relationship with Ivar's character. Sometimes I really like his character and other times I want to douse him with ice water. I felt glad, though, that his plan worked, as weird as it came across. I think it wasn't so much as the whole army zigzagging through the countryside, but just parts of it. So while one showed up and distracted Aethelwulf's men, the other part would run off. Glancing at Wikipedia's version of events, I'm completely baffled where this is all falling in the history of the Great Heathen Army's invasion. It's Vikings, so whatever.
Finally, Best Son Ever Award goes to Alfred. That boy sure knows how to warm his stepfather's heart.
posted by Atreides at 8:09 AM on January 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I welcomed the battle at Kattegat(sp) if only to revolve most of that storyline advancing King Harald. I thought it was pretty clear that apparently everyone but Harald knew women better, and I also figured why reveal Harald's duplicity to Lagertha if the grieving widow is going to get her revenge. I enjoyed the battle generally, though RIP Torvi. I figured either her or Astrid was going to perish, so I guess the writers are more interested in the Mother-Astrid-Son triangle.
On other battles, I have a hate/love relationship with Ivar's character. Sometimes I really like his character and other times I want to douse him with ice water. I felt glad, though, that his plan worked, as weird as it came across. I think it wasn't so much as the whole army zigzagging through the countryside, but just parts of it. So while one showed up and distracted Aethelwulf's men, the other part would run off. Glancing at Wikipedia's version of events, I'm completely baffled where this is all falling in the history of the Great Heathen Army's invasion. It's Vikings, so whatever.
Finally, Best Son Ever Award goes to Alfred. That boy sure knows how to warm his stepfather's heart.
posted by Atreides at 8:09 AM on January 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
i've been reading bernard cornwell's last kingdom series again so i am not charmed by tiny arthur at all.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:59 AM on January 27, 2017
posted by poffin boffin at 11:59 AM on January 27, 2017
The Kattegat model really reminded me of "toy blocks" for kids... and I honestly don't know if it was historically used. Maybe they were and today's "toy blocks" is kind of like how rugby/American football is a legacy of shield wall warfare tactics.
I'm pretty sure that we've seen people in the series do small wood carving (whittling), right? Especially toys and stuff. Historically and in literature hobby-scale woodworking is common. Given Kattegat's prosperity, more people can be freed from subsistence farming/hunting to engage in artisanal activities. Lagertha being gifted (or had been commissioned herself) a set of miniatures is plausible, especially since they would actually be very useful for community and military planning.
Measure twice, cut once... especially when so much physical person labour is required to construct earthworks. No internal combustion engine backhoes back then.
posted by porpoise at 4:35 PM on January 27, 2017
I'm pretty sure that we've seen people in the series do small wood carving (whittling), right? Especially toys and stuff. Historically and in literature hobby-scale woodworking is common. Given Kattegat's prosperity, more people can be freed from subsistence farming/hunting to engage in artisanal activities. Lagertha being gifted (or had been commissioned herself) a set of miniatures is plausible, especially since they would actually be very useful for community and military planning.
Measure twice, cut once... especially when so much physical person labour is required to construct earthworks. No internal combustion engine backhoes back then.
posted by porpoise at 4:35 PM on January 27, 2017
Really appreciate the super high quality sets and battles again! I guess the last episode was done with the second unit or something so this episode could be delivered.
I'll wager that the opening scene for the next episode is the English cavalry charging into a field filled with Viking-made rabbit holes and disintegrates.
Ivar's HumVikingee is a little implausible for the terrain.
Agreed that the attack on Kattegat was kind of weaksauce strategically (and plot-wise); the infiltrators in the market were kind of throwaway suicide run (how do you convince your people to do that?!) and announced their intentions. The actual attack's distraction strategy failed (as a distraction strategy) and the attackers were defeated in detail (when the distraction looked like it might have been enough to win the damned thing in the first place).
Nice to see Katheryn Winnick with some meaty scenes in addition to the satisfying none-more-metal ones. Her 'what a waste' reaction(s) to Kattegat being attacked was pretty stirring.
I don't even on the historical accuracy thing, but Ivar's strategy is a super-winning one for the Total War series of games well, the ones without the crippled blob combat physics.
What is it with defeated 'captains' solo-ing in and suiciding when frustrated? The English Prince didn't, but the scar-faced captain hired by Harald - better to turn around and run and possibly die? I can't see any personal animosity against Lagertha - did I miss something with scarface's history? Because that was just dumb.
Remember when Bjorn was RIPed? I'm wondering if Torvi's gonna get Bjorned?
Love love love Floki being mad-uncle/surrogate-dad to Ivar. Bit of a contrast to Helga's unrequited attachment to the Moroccan slave girl.
Alfred Aethelstan's Son - how much of it is genuine gratitude/love for stepfather and how much savvy/self preservation?
posted by porpoise at 5:13 PM on January 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll wager that the opening scene for the next episode is the English cavalry charging into a field filled with Viking-made rabbit holes and disintegrates.
Ivar's HumVikingee is a little implausible for the terrain.
Agreed that the attack on Kattegat was kind of weaksauce strategically (and plot-wise); the infiltrators in the market were kind of throwaway suicide run (how do you convince your people to do that?!) and announced their intentions. The actual attack's distraction strategy failed (as a distraction strategy) and the attackers were defeated in detail (when the distraction looked like it might have been enough to win the damned thing in the first place).
Nice to see Katheryn Winnick with some meaty scenes in addition to the satisfying none-more-metal ones. Her 'what a waste' reaction(s) to Kattegat being attacked was pretty stirring.
I don't even on the historical accuracy thing, but Ivar's strategy is a super-winning one for the Total War series of games well, the ones without the crippled blob combat physics.
What is it with defeated 'captains' solo-ing in and suiciding when frustrated? The English Prince didn't, but the scar-faced captain hired by Harald - better to turn around and run and possibly die? I can't see any personal animosity against Lagertha - did I miss something with scarface's history? Because that was just dumb.
Remember when Bjorn was RIPed? I'm wondering if Torvi's gonna get Bjorned?
Love love love Floki being mad-uncle/surrogate-dad to Ivar. Bit of a contrast to Helga's unrequited attachment to the Moroccan slave girl.
Alfred Aethelstan's Son - how much of it is genuine gratitude/love for stepfather and how much savvy/self preservation?
posted by porpoise at 5:13 PM on January 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't even on the historical accuracy thing, but Ivar's strategy is a super-winning one for the Total War series of games well, the ones without the crippled blob combat physics.
I don't know about the historical accuracy of this particular battle but it was in the spirit of the tactics they did use. Vikings were notorious for not fighting 'fair' and is one of the reasons they were feared. They didn't always play by the English common rules of how you do war where each army basically lines up and runs at each other.. From the English pov they didn't fight with honour and fought in the way cowards do. From the viking pov, stealth tactics, ambushing from the woods and other surprise tactics weren't considered dishonorable or cowardly ways to fight.
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know about the historical accuracy of this particular battle but it was in the spirit of the tactics they did use. Vikings were notorious for not fighting 'fair' and is one of the reasons they were feared. They didn't always play by the English common rules of how you do war where each army basically lines up and runs at each other.. From the English pov they didn't fight with honour and fought in the way cowards do. From the viking pov, stealth tactics, ambushing from the woods and other surprise tactics weren't considered dishonorable or cowardly ways to fight.
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Remember when Bjorn was RIPed? I'm wondering if Torvi's gonna get Bjorned?
I'd forgotten about Bjorn's RIPing, but Torvi...she had that blank open-eyed stare of a lifeless corpse going on. It COULD happen, but given the drama between her and Bjorn before he left, it seems like she was kind of fridged to give Bjorn something to be upset about for leaving her behind for the sake of revenge.
Alfred Aethelstan's Son - how much of it is genuine gratitude/love for stepfather and how much savvy/self preservation?
This is the saintly Alfred the Great! He's totally being sincere.
I don't know about the historical accuracy of this particular battle but it was in the spirit of the tactics they did use. Vikings were notorious for not fighting 'fair' and is one of the reasons they were feared. They didn't always play by the English common rules of how you do war where each army basically lines up and runs at each other.. From the English pov they didn't fight with honour and fought in the way cowards do. From the viking pov, stealth tactics, ambushing from the woods and other surprise tactics weren't considered dishonorable or cowardly ways to fight.
The Franks weren't too hot on Ragnar's fake death thing, either.
posted by Atreides at 11:10 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd forgotten about Bjorn's RIPing, but Torvi...she had that blank open-eyed stare of a lifeless corpse going on. It COULD happen, but given the drama between her and Bjorn before he left, it seems like she was kind of fridged to give Bjorn something to be upset about for leaving her behind for the sake of revenge.
Alfred Aethelstan's Son - how much of it is genuine gratitude/love for stepfather and how much savvy/self preservation?
This is the saintly Alfred the Great! He's totally being sincere.
I don't know about the historical accuracy of this particular battle but it was in the spirit of the tactics they did use. Vikings were notorious for not fighting 'fair' and is one of the reasons they were feared. They didn't always play by the English common rules of how you do war where each army basically lines up and runs at each other.. From the English pov they didn't fight with honour and fought in the way cowards do. From the viking pov, stealth tactics, ambushing from the woods and other surprise tactics weren't considered dishonorable or cowardly ways to fight.
The Franks weren't too hot on Ragnar's fake death thing, either.
posted by Atreides at 11:10 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
but Torvi...she had that blank open-eyed stare of a lifeless corpse going on
I thought I saw her slow-blink a couple of times. But, yes, narratively her being fridged makes much more sense.
This is the saintly Alfred the Great!
Wut! Oh. Thanks!
posted by porpoise at 11:25 AM on January 30, 2017
I thought I saw her slow-blink a couple of times. But, yes, narratively her being fridged makes much more sense.
This is the saintly Alfred the Great!
Wut! Oh. Thanks!
posted by porpoise at 11:25 AM on January 30, 2017
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Anyway. Maybe it's just me and my mood this month but I found it hard to be as excited by the battles as I could have been. Like, Lagertha's fire bomb was cool, I guess (and the spit roasting perhaps a good starting point for some BDSM themed fanfic) but the attack itself is part of the King Harald subplot that just seems to have no wind in its sails to me. Maybe because Harald showed up, like, is it two seasons ago or something like that? And then his whole thing got dropped as he agreed to join in various other raids which didn't advance his personal aims, just delayed them.
And then the Wessex battle, part of me is thinking "this diversionary tactic is pretty cool," but then also how the hell does an army of thousands zig zag back and forth that quickly?
posted by dnash at 11:37 AM on January 26, 2017