Star Trek: Voyager: Heroes and Demons Rewatch
February 9, 2017 8:48 AM - Season 1, Episode 12 - Subscribe
Harry Kim fumbles his initiative while LARPing on the Holodeck. Facing a TPK, the group has to rely on the newb—who rolled up a healer with Strength as his dump stat—to finish the module.
The glorious deeds of Memory Alpha shall live on in story and song!
- Naren Shankar was surprised by the fact that, when he presented his pitch, no-one else in the room had read Beowulf; he had been under the impression that the poem was standard reading material. Although he was already familiar with the tale himself, he subsequently researched Beowulf specifically for this episode, slyly referencing the poem in his earliest version of the script. "I did go back into the source material," he said, "and in my first draft, during the first few Viking scenes, there were lines from Beowulf that I worked into the characters' speeches. Somebody who knew the poem would have said, 'Gee, that's in the poem.'"
- Most of the names of the holographic characters in this episode were taken straight from Beowulf, although Naren Shankar also invented a new character for the story. "Freya is not really in Beowulf," he remarked. "The King's daughter is mentioned, and I used a diminutive form of that name for the character, but she's really there as a romantic interest for The Doctor. I know that sounds cheap and lame, but ultimately it worked on screen."
- The "Grendel" photonic lifeform was designed by Ronald B. Moore, who affectionately dubbed the alien the "fettuccini monster." The design was a happy accident, developing from a new software experiment at Digital Magic.
- The swords used on the holodeck are not exactly appropriate for the Viking time period, being post-Norman swords of the early Middle Ages rather than the type of short stabbing weapons that were prevalent in Norse culture of the sixth to eighth centuries.
- When The Doctor is first transferred into the holodeck, the accompanying sound effect begins with the transporter dematerialization, but then segues into the usual sound used for The Doctor's deactivations.
- Despite the success of this episode's story and script, this was ultimately the only Voyager episode that Naren Shankar was involved in.
- Following the release of the VOY Season 1 DVD in 2004, Robert Picardo enjoyed watching the DVD version of this episode. "It was fun to watch that again and to see that it really stood up," Picardo admitted. "I laughed at it. It's one of the great secret pleasures of being an actor that you can actually watch something you've done that's supposed to be funny and laugh. That's about as good as it gets." He once jokingly described this episode as "Alice in Wonderland with a bald, middle-aged, cranky, arrogant Alice."
"This ancient Earth culture seems fascinated with monsters."
"Every culture has its demons. They embody the darkest emotions of its people. Giving them physical form in heroic literature is a way of exploring those feelings. The Vok'sha of Rakella Prime believe that hate is a beast which lives inside the stomach. Their greatest mythical hero is a man who ate stones for twenty-three days to kill the beast, and became a saint."
"Such fables are necessary only in cultures which unduly emphasize emotional behavior. I would point out there are no demons in Vulcan literature."
"That might account for its popularity."
- Tuvok and Chakotay
"You are truly a man of many talents, Lord Schweitzer. Your people must value you greatly."
"You would think so."
- Freya and The Doctor, as The Doctor acts as Schweitzer
"Fire is not the only heat, Lord Schweitzer. You know where I sleep."
- Freya
Poster's Log: I agree with the cast and crew that this is a solid outing. Definitely one of the more enjoyable holodeck episodes; too often in TNG, crew members in the Holodeck behaved, well, "in-character" (e.g. Picard as Dixon Hill, Data as Holmes, Troy as the deputy or whatever), and it was always more fun when someone was in fish-out-of-water mode (e.g. Guinan in the Dixon Hill program or Worf in the Old West). Moreover, the story manages to remain interesting despite the audience's foreknowledge that it's Just a Holodeck Episode and our heroes will be fine. And Picardo is great, as always. In the dinner scene (which he discusses a lot on the MA page), he does IMO overdo the physical comedy just a bit, but that's my only…um…beef.
Poster's Log, Supplemental: And now, a guide to all that above-the-fold RPG terminology.
dump stat - fumble - LARPing - TPK.
"Initiative" is how you determine who goes first in a combat; rolling badly can be disastrous, especially when playing at high levels (in 3rd edition D&D anyway). "Rolling up" means character creation.
The glorious deeds of Memory Alpha shall live on in story and song!
- Naren Shankar was surprised by the fact that, when he presented his pitch, no-one else in the room had read Beowulf; he had been under the impression that the poem was standard reading material. Although he was already familiar with the tale himself, he subsequently researched Beowulf specifically for this episode, slyly referencing the poem in his earliest version of the script. "I did go back into the source material," he said, "and in my first draft, during the first few Viking scenes, there were lines from Beowulf that I worked into the characters' speeches. Somebody who knew the poem would have said, 'Gee, that's in the poem.'"
- Most of the names of the holographic characters in this episode were taken straight from Beowulf, although Naren Shankar also invented a new character for the story. "Freya is not really in Beowulf," he remarked. "The King's daughter is mentioned, and I used a diminutive form of that name for the character, but she's really there as a romantic interest for The Doctor. I know that sounds cheap and lame, but ultimately it worked on screen."
- The "Grendel" photonic lifeform was designed by Ronald B. Moore, who affectionately dubbed the alien the "fettuccini monster." The design was a happy accident, developing from a new software experiment at Digital Magic.
- The swords used on the holodeck are not exactly appropriate for the Viking time period, being post-Norman swords of the early Middle Ages rather than the type of short stabbing weapons that were prevalent in Norse culture of the sixth to eighth centuries.
- When The Doctor is first transferred into the holodeck, the accompanying sound effect begins with the transporter dematerialization, but then segues into the usual sound used for The Doctor's deactivations.
- Despite the success of this episode's story and script, this was ultimately the only Voyager episode that Naren Shankar was involved in.
- Following the release of the VOY Season 1 DVD in 2004, Robert Picardo enjoyed watching the DVD version of this episode. "It was fun to watch that again and to see that it really stood up," Picardo admitted. "I laughed at it. It's one of the great secret pleasures of being an actor that you can actually watch something you've done that's supposed to be funny and laugh. That's about as good as it gets." He once jokingly described this episode as "Alice in Wonderland with a bald, middle-aged, cranky, arrogant Alice."
"This ancient Earth culture seems fascinated with monsters."
"Every culture has its demons. They embody the darkest emotions of its people. Giving them physical form in heroic literature is a way of exploring those feelings. The Vok'sha of Rakella Prime believe that hate is a beast which lives inside the stomach. Their greatest mythical hero is a man who ate stones for twenty-three days to kill the beast, and became a saint."
"Such fables are necessary only in cultures which unduly emphasize emotional behavior. I would point out there are no demons in Vulcan literature."
"That might account for its popularity."
- Tuvok and Chakotay
"You are truly a man of many talents, Lord Schweitzer. Your people must value you greatly."
"You would think so."
- Freya and The Doctor, as The Doctor acts as Schweitzer
"Fire is not the only heat, Lord Schweitzer. You know where I sleep."
- Freya
Poster's Log: I agree with the cast and crew that this is a solid outing. Definitely one of the more enjoyable holodeck episodes; too often in TNG, crew members in the Holodeck behaved, well, "in-character" (e.g. Picard as Dixon Hill, Data as Holmes, Troy as the deputy or whatever), and it was always more fun when someone was in fish-out-of-water mode (e.g. Guinan in the Dixon Hill program or Worf in the Old West). Moreover, the story manages to remain interesting despite the audience's foreknowledge that it's Just a Holodeck Episode and our heroes will be fine. And Picardo is great, as always. In the dinner scene (which he discusses a lot on the MA page), he does IMO overdo the physical comedy just a bit, but that's my only…um…beef.
Poster's Log, Supplemental: And now, a guide to all that above-the-fold RPG terminology.
dump stat - fumble - LARPing - TPK.
"Initiative" is how you determine who goes first in a combat; rolling badly can be disastrous, especially when playing at high levels (in 3rd edition D&D anyway). "Rolling up" means character creation.
This episode aired when I was a teenager so I'd never heard of Beowulf and, in fact, kept waiting for a wolf to show up. ("It's called Beowolf, so where's the wolf?"). Even after I learned the truth, this episode never did much for me. Picardo is great in it though as always.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:33 AM on February 9, 2017
posted by Servo5678 at 10:33 AM on February 9, 2017
The interactions between the Doctor and other holograms raised more questions, though - does it seem weird to him? Like, they clearly have less capacity for learning and action than he does, but this is still the first time he's interacted with other holograms on the show.
I think they missed a lot of opportunity here for raising some of these intriguing sci-fi questions. On the one hand, you have the holograms who are clearly not sentient and self aware in quite the same way the Doctor is. (Or even Vic Fontaine, Moriarty, etc.) At the other end of the spectrum you have the photonic beings - as far as we know they are naturally occurring creatures, capable of independent thought, and compassion.
It's clear that was not the story they wanted to tell, and what we got was perfectly enjoyable, but it's hard not to wonder about some of the missed opportunities.
(We received a fair dose of what does it mean to be alive? with Data in TNG, so maybe they didn't want to fully encroach on that territory this early in Voyager's run. But I can't recall Data ever encountering a naturally occurring, sentient being that is related to him in this same way.)
There's also this. If the Doctor raises the question of whether run of the mill holograms are living creatures it brings with it a whole lot of ethical dilemmas that might negatively impact the show. Or at least the show's ability to freely use the holodeck.
posted by 2ht at 11:00 AM on February 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think they missed a lot of opportunity here for raising some of these intriguing sci-fi questions. On the one hand, you have the holograms who are clearly not sentient and self aware in quite the same way the Doctor is. (Or even Vic Fontaine, Moriarty, etc.) At the other end of the spectrum you have the photonic beings - as far as we know they are naturally occurring creatures, capable of independent thought, and compassion.
It's clear that was not the story they wanted to tell, and what we got was perfectly enjoyable, but it's hard not to wonder about some of the missed opportunities.
(We received a fair dose of what does it mean to be alive? with Data in TNG, so maybe they didn't want to fully encroach on that territory this early in Voyager's run. But I can't recall Data ever encountering a naturally occurring, sentient being that is related to him in this same way.)
There's also this. If the Doctor raises the question of whether run of the mill holograms are living creatures it brings with it a whole lot of ethical dilemmas that might negatively impact the show. Or at least the show's ability to freely use the holodeck.
posted by 2ht at 11:00 AM on February 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
But I can't recall Data ever encountering a naturally occurring, sentient being that is related to him in this same way.
The Exocomps, IIRC, came close.
There's also this. If the Doctor raises the question of whether run of the mill holograms are living creatures it brings with it a whole lot of ethical dilemmas that might negatively impact the show. Or at least the show's ability to freely use the holodeck.
Yeah, which (given VOY's slightly more serial nature compared with TNG) would definitely have had an impact.
Still, we DO get the slight post-script of the Doctor clearly mourning Freya. They could have gone a little more overtly, monologue-y philosophical with it, but maybe they figured that'd saddle the episode with too much gravitas right at the end.
Perhaps it's better that they began the whole "holograms-as-people" question, destined to be directly addressed by the show, with this comparatively slight story. Just to get those thoughts percolating in the mind of the Doctor and the audience.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:57 AM on February 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Exocomps, IIRC, came close.
There's also this. If the Doctor raises the question of whether run of the mill holograms are living creatures it brings with it a whole lot of ethical dilemmas that might negatively impact the show. Or at least the show's ability to freely use the holodeck.
Yeah, which (given VOY's slightly more serial nature compared with TNG) would definitely have had an impact.
Still, we DO get the slight post-script of the Doctor clearly mourning Freya. They could have gone a little more overtly, monologue-y philosophical with it, but maybe they figured that'd saddle the episode with too much gravitas right at the end.
Perhaps it's better that they began the whole "holograms-as-people" question, destined to be directly addressed by the show, with this comparatively slight story. Just to get those thoughts percolating in the mind of the Doctor and the audience.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:57 AM on February 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
This episode aired while I was an undergrad taking a course in Anglo-Saxon lit where we'd recently worked through Beowulf in the original Old English. The synchronicity of that makes this the most memorable first season episode for me, even if it wasn't spectacular.
posted by Pryde at 12:00 PM on February 9, 2017
posted by Pryde at 12:00 PM on February 9, 2017
First of all, let me commend you for the above-the-cut text, since Strength is my favorite RPG dump stat (fuck yeah Weapon Finesse, ditto Handy Haversack). It's a big Doctor episode, so naturally I loved it. I was kind of irritated by the framing story/McGuffin, with its references to "photonic energy"; uh, wouldn't that be, you know, light? But the rest of the story, and especially Freya, made up for it.
Speaking of whom, I had misremembered my first watching of this, and thought that when the Doctor was bragging to the EMH Mk II in "Message in a Bottle" that he'd gotten his holo-bone on, he was talking about Freya. But that's not how that scene plays out, and the MA page for "Message in a Bottle" (spoilers obvs) mentions some other possibilities.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:04 PM on February 9, 2017
Speaking of whom, I had misremembered my first watching of this, and thought that when the Doctor was bragging to the EMH Mk II in "Message in a Bottle" that he'd gotten his holo-bone on, he was talking about Freya. But that's not how that scene plays out, and the MA page for "Message in a Bottle" (spoilers obvs) mentions some other possibilities.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:04 PM on February 9, 2017
• Photonic energy? In a holodeck? Surely not!
• I just love Freya so much. She's my favorite thing about the episode.
• There's enough going on just with the Doctor on his first away mission, trying out his first name, snogging his first Viking, etc. that there's no need to try fitting any further explorations of hologram ontology into the show just yet. We'll get there.
• I do wish that when Lord Schweitzer was telling his tales over roast elk that the holo-characters had enjoyed his incomprehensible story instead of being confused by it. It seems like this holo-adventure should be programmed so that whatever dumb tale of daring you tell, your audience eats it up. I like to imagine young Harry in his neat costume telling stories about clarinets or isolinear chips or something and the Vikings just cheering him on and pouring more drinks.
posted by obloquy at 1:37 AM on February 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
• I just love Freya so much. She's my favorite thing about the episode.
• There's enough going on just with the Doctor on his first away mission, trying out his first name, snogging his first Viking, etc. that there's no need to try fitting any further explorations of hologram ontology into the show just yet. We'll get there.
• I do wish that when Lord Schweitzer was telling his tales over roast elk that the holo-characters had enjoyed his incomprehensible story instead of being confused by it. It seems like this holo-adventure should be programmed so that whatever dumb tale of daring you tell, your audience eats it up. I like to imagine young Harry in his neat costume telling stories about clarinets or isolinear chips or something and the Vikings just cheering him on and pouring more drinks.
posted by obloquy at 1:37 AM on February 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
• There's enough going on just with the Doctor on his first away mission, trying out his first name, snogging his first Viking, etc. that there's no need to try fitting any further explorations of hologram ontology into the show just yet. We'll get there.
I probably wouldn't have had the same amount of discomfort or questions as to how the Doctor is feeling about this if there hadn't been the Doctor hadn't been propositioned by Freya - because at that point, it does feel like the question of her sentience and free will is important. And I'm not expecting WestWorld here, but the general line so far in regards to how Star Trek deals with holodecks is that the people using them assume the programs can't feel anything and don't really have any needs. Except then we have the Doctor learning to speak up for himself and obviously have some feelings and desires - so it would make sense that he would probably interact with other holographic projections differently, that he might not just assume it's 'just a program'. And we don't really see that here.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:49 AM on February 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I probably wouldn't have had the same amount of discomfort or questions as to how the Doctor is feeling about this if there hadn't been the Doctor hadn't been propositioned by Freya - because at that point, it does feel like the question of her sentience and free will is important. And I'm not expecting WestWorld here, but the general line so far in regards to how Star Trek deals with holodecks is that the people using them assume the programs can't feel anything and don't really have any needs. Except then we have the Doctor learning to speak up for himself and obviously have some feelings and desires - so it would make sense that he would probably interact with other holographic projections differently, that he might not just assume it's 'just a program'. And we don't really see that here.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:49 AM on February 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
While I'm generally not much of a fan of holodeck centered episodes on THG and Voyager, this one was one of the best and a good longer intro to the doctor's character. We'd been shown the doctor interacting with the other crew members as a side character and his personality and unusual attributes had gone through a longer fleshing out, so to speak, phase than most other members of the cast, so giving him this episode as the featured star comes at a good time in the run, long enough in to have found him enjoyable and wanting to see more, but not so far as to feel that we already had most of his circumstance already known.
One of my minor annoyances with the holodeck stories is how often they are built around fictions vaguely meaningful to our time, but almost certainly not of enough significance to remain meaningful a couple centuries hence, or where the use of the fictions is so neutered as to be rendered saccharin, mooting much of any point to the reference and appreciation of whatever fiction they use. Even when not a "real" reference, like Dixon Hill or Tom's "idyllic" Irish village, the element of tameness and, well, whiteness to it all just feels patronizing and unsuitable for the crew at times. I won't go into all those issues right now since there'll be plenty of other holodeck shows ahead, so I mention that more to point out what I like about this episode and what it gets, at least, somewhat more right.
Having poor Harry be the one running the program is amusing, just another example of the weird stuff that keeps happening to him. I guess this doesn't exactly count as a death for Harry, "just' a transmutation into photonic energy, but it was touch and go there for a minute. That Harry would be running a Beowolf program seems pretty reasonable to me. Beowolf's place in literature history isn't going to change radically over time, Harry is geeky enough to be interested and want to play out the hero, and as an added bonus, Naren Shankar actually makes some use of the story to bring a little more to the episode than it might appear at first glance to anyone unfamiliar with the tale.
Shankar uses a modern concept of the story, where Grendel isn't really the villain of the piece, something John Gardner made notable in his telling of the legend from Grendel's point of view in his book Grendel, (which was made into an animated movie, Grendel, Grendel, Grendel, by Peter Ustinov). Grendel is misunderstood by King Hrothgar and his men when he comes to the hall due to all the loud noises of laughter and goings on which leads to the unintended deaths and assorted bad consequences. This take on the story, coming in part, no doubt, from Grendel's mother coming to avenge her's son's death in the original tale, which carries associations not typical of "monsters", has found a niche in interpreting the legend and Shankar puts it to canny use here.
Not only is his "Grendel" misunderstood and not really a monster, he also swaps some of the action around in a subtle way that adds a level of amusing irony to the story. In the epic, Beowolf faces Grendel without a weapon as he sees himself as equal, after a long battle, Grendel's arm is ripped off, forcing him to withdraw from the fight and go back to his home where he dies. Here, it's the doctor's arm that gets "ripped off" and forces him to withdraw from battle. While in the original, Grendel's mother comes next to avenge her son, here, Janeway helps the doctor to regain his arm and go back to face "the monster" again, but with the new understanding that there has been a mistake made, and that the doctor will face Grendel unarmed save for the knowledge of the mistake and desire to fix it. It's a fine twist on showing Starfleet values compared to traditional ones, and makes good use of all the cast involved to tell the story.
Chakotay and Tuvok get a nifty little scene together, as quoted above, where the made up legend of the Vok'sha is itself a nice piece of show writing of the sort that really goes towards giving some further breadth to the Trek universe. The Vok'sha's legend has just the right touch of being reasonably "true" seeming in its belief and still fits with our own history of ideas on emotions. That he then gets a little kicker in about Vulcan literature is just icing on the cake in a nice little moment of dialogue.
Tom Paris gets some decent use here, showing his concern for Harry and coming up with the idea of involving the doctor, something that needn't come from him of course, B'Elanna might have been the more likely candidate to think of it first, but making it come from Tom fleshes out the scene a little more and involves more of the crew, providing the sort of multi-character interaction the show lacks at times. It's also just outside the norm enough without being too technical to make it plausible Tom could have thought of it given his interest in helping Harry. Still, a little more positive B'Elanna use could also have been useful in the episode since she doesn't get a good stand out moment herself, serving more a bridging role for the others to show their best.
As to the doctor, I actually think they found the right line to walk in regards to his interacting with the other holo-characters. First in establishing the "fiction" of the world and the gameplay like aspect to it in all the repetition of actions the holocharacters engage in keeps them more firmly rooted as non-sentient. Everyone entering the story gets treated in roughly the same way as the tale is a pre-defined one with the general actions already known. Shankar does a good job with this, making the holotale more believable as a holoadventure by showing these elements, and then shows how the doctor's interactions come from a slightly different place, that doesn't change the tale, but means something more to him.
Setting up the interactions on the holodeck by having the doctor talk with Kes about how he's never really experienced anything outside the medlab is the key here. So when the doctor arrives on the holodeck and takes a moment to feel the trees and smell the plants its signalling how he'll be reacting to the holocharacters too in a way.
It isn't that he need see them as being like himself, as they are more clearly limited in their programs and responses, but that he begins to understand through them, Freya in particular, what any sentient experience is like is the more important aspect. Freya becomes representative of his growing needs and understanding of life, even if she isn't the same as him. It's more that she is what he was, just a program, but one made flesh, that makes her relationship more poignant in a way. The doctor's ending encounter with the photonic creature represents the other end of the possibilities for him, where Freya is what he once was, the sentient photonic being is more what the doctor has before him, what he might become. It's too bright too see and communication was limited, but that it is a thinking and caring being shows the doctor the wider possibilities before him, the whole of the events then encapsulating his own history in that way.
The doctor can show sorrow for Freya because there was in here the same potential as there is in him in some fashion, even as he recognizes it hasn't been reached, while also giving notice to his own awakening to experience through his brief relationship with her. In the same way his sense of awe and disappointment talking with Janeway about his encounter with "Grendel" shows how much more he is hoping to expand his experiences and really start to grow now that he's taken his first real steps in that direction. It's a lovely ending with the discussion and then the show giving the doctor a moment where he goes back to his medical work with the new knowledge he's acquired still hanging over the scene, adding scope to the level of change he's undergone as what he's thinking about carries through into his normal routines. It also may be a sly little twist on the Beowolf story, where after slaying Grendel and his mother, Hrothgar warns Beowolf about pride, something the doctor would do well to remember himself at times in future episodes.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:55 PM on February 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of my minor annoyances with the holodeck stories is how often they are built around fictions vaguely meaningful to our time, but almost certainly not of enough significance to remain meaningful a couple centuries hence, or where the use of the fictions is so neutered as to be rendered saccharin, mooting much of any point to the reference and appreciation of whatever fiction they use. Even when not a "real" reference, like Dixon Hill or Tom's "idyllic" Irish village, the element of tameness and, well, whiteness to it all just feels patronizing and unsuitable for the crew at times. I won't go into all those issues right now since there'll be plenty of other holodeck shows ahead, so I mention that more to point out what I like about this episode and what it gets, at least, somewhat more right.
Having poor Harry be the one running the program is amusing, just another example of the weird stuff that keeps happening to him. I guess this doesn't exactly count as a death for Harry, "just' a transmutation into photonic energy, but it was touch and go there for a minute. That Harry would be running a Beowolf program seems pretty reasonable to me. Beowolf's place in literature history isn't going to change radically over time, Harry is geeky enough to be interested and want to play out the hero, and as an added bonus, Naren Shankar actually makes some use of the story to bring a little more to the episode than it might appear at first glance to anyone unfamiliar with the tale.
Shankar uses a modern concept of the story, where Grendel isn't really the villain of the piece, something John Gardner made notable in his telling of the legend from Grendel's point of view in his book Grendel, (which was made into an animated movie, Grendel, Grendel, Grendel, by Peter Ustinov). Grendel is misunderstood by King Hrothgar and his men when he comes to the hall due to all the loud noises of laughter and goings on which leads to the unintended deaths and assorted bad consequences. This take on the story, coming in part, no doubt, from Grendel's mother coming to avenge her's son's death in the original tale, which carries associations not typical of "monsters", has found a niche in interpreting the legend and Shankar puts it to canny use here.
Not only is his "Grendel" misunderstood and not really a monster, he also swaps some of the action around in a subtle way that adds a level of amusing irony to the story. In the epic, Beowolf faces Grendel without a weapon as he sees himself as equal, after a long battle, Grendel's arm is ripped off, forcing him to withdraw from the fight and go back to his home where he dies. Here, it's the doctor's arm that gets "ripped off" and forces him to withdraw from battle. While in the original, Grendel's mother comes next to avenge her son, here, Janeway helps the doctor to regain his arm and go back to face "the monster" again, but with the new understanding that there has been a mistake made, and that the doctor will face Grendel unarmed save for the knowledge of the mistake and desire to fix it. It's a fine twist on showing Starfleet values compared to traditional ones, and makes good use of all the cast involved to tell the story.
Chakotay and Tuvok get a nifty little scene together, as quoted above, where the made up legend of the Vok'sha is itself a nice piece of show writing of the sort that really goes towards giving some further breadth to the Trek universe. The Vok'sha's legend has just the right touch of being reasonably "true" seeming in its belief and still fits with our own history of ideas on emotions. That he then gets a little kicker in about Vulcan literature is just icing on the cake in a nice little moment of dialogue.
Tom Paris gets some decent use here, showing his concern for Harry and coming up with the idea of involving the doctor, something that needn't come from him of course, B'Elanna might have been the more likely candidate to think of it first, but making it come from Tom fleshes out the scene a little more and involves more of the crew, providing the sort of multi-character interaction the show lacks at times. It's also just outside the norm enough without being too technical to make it plausible Tom could have thought of it given his interest in helping Harry. Still, a little more positive B'Elanna use could also have been useful in the episode since she doesn't get a good stand out moment herself, serving more a bridging role for the others to show their best.
As to the doctor, I actually think they found the right line to walk in regards to his interacting with the other holo-characters. First in establishing the "fiction" of the world and the gameplay like aspect to it in all the repetition of actions the holocharacters engage in keeps them more firmly rooted as non-sentient. Everyone entering the story gets treated in roughly the same way as the tale is a pre-defined one with the general actions already known. Shankar does a good job with this, making the holotale more believable as a holoadventure by showing these elements, and then shows how the doctor's interactions come from a slightly different place, that doesn't change the tale, but means something more to him.
Setting up the interactions on the holodeck by having the doctor talk with Kes about how he's never really experienced anything outside the medlab is the key here. So when the doctor arrives on the holodeck and takes a moment to feel the trees and smell the plants its signalling how he'll be reacting to the holocharacters too in a way.
It isn't that he need see them as being like himself, as they are more clearly limited in their programs and responses, but that he begins to understand through them, Freya in particular, what any sentient experience is like is the more important aspect. Freya becomes representative of his growing needs and understanding of life, even if she isn't the same as him. It's more that she is what he was, just a program, but one made flesh, that makes her relationship more poignant in a way. The doctor's ending encounter with the photonic creature represents the other end of the possibilities for him, where Freya is what he once was, the sentient photonic being is more what the doctor has before him, what he might become. It's too bright too see and communication was limited, but that it is a thinking and caring being shows the doctor the wider possibilities before him, the whole of the events then encapsulating his own history in that way.
The doctor can show sorrow for Freya because there was in here the same potential as there is in him in some fashion, even as he recognizes it hasn't been reached, while also giving notice to his own awakening to experience through his brief relationship with her. In the same way his sense of awe and disappointment talking with Janeway about his encounter with "Grendel" shows how much more he is hoping to expand his experiences and really start to grow now that he's taken his first real steps in that direction. It's a lovely ending with the discussion and then the show giving the doctor a moment where he goes back to his medical work with the new knowledge he's acquired still hanging over the scene, adding scope to the level of change he's undergone as what he's thinking about carries through into his normal routines. It also may be a sly little twist on the Beowolf story, where after slaying Grendel and his mother, Hrothgar warns Beowolf about pride, something the doctor would do well to remember himself at times in future episodes.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:55 PM on February 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Particle of the Week: Photons, somehow?
Pointless STO Comparison of the Week: Autonomous sapient holograms are available as crew in the era of Star Trek Online, though hard to come by.
Equipment Tally: No change, though they were temporarily down one Ensign Harry Kim again.
Notes:
* I'm counting this as a roundabout 'something bizarre happens to Harry' episode.
Granted, he's offscreen for the whole thing, but it didn't escape my attention that the weird energy aliens picked *his* holodeck adventure time to take prisoners.
* Chakotay comes off pretty well here.
I think this might be the first time I've gotten to say this, but Chakotay comes across the way they want him to here: he's thoughtful, educated and his fictitious cultural reference is both funny and plausible. He also works pretty well opposite Tuvok: they had a sort of mild Bones/Spock dynamic going for a few minutes.
* I'm in the 'this is probably the best holodeck episode they've done' camp.
The cheesy sets mixed with actual quotes from Beowulf totally tracks with how I picture the holodeck needing to work: pretty phony to anybody who knows what's what, more centered on video game/cinematic reality. I thought the whole deal was perfect. I was also pleased to see a young Marjorie Monaghan in the episode - I forgot that I'd seen her here before her (pretty great) recurring role on Babylon 5.
I also appreciated that for once, the holodeck problem had an external cause - this wasn't the fault of the holodeck safeties sucking, or someone telling the holodeck to craft an opponent capable of defeating Harry Kim or something. This was a bona fide alien encounter that - despite the incredibly silly technobable - at least holds to some sort of internal consistency and doesn't paint the holodeck as the dumbest Trek innovation ever.
Plus, Picardo sells the hell out of it. My recollection of Voyager was always that he was the MVP, and the rewatch continues to bear that out. As others have mentioned above, I do wish they'd made more of his first encounter with other holograms, but I feel like he did the best he could with the runtime. (I suspect they would've needed a two-parter to really get into that, and the material wouldn't have stretched that far.)
* This plot was entirely too similar to The Cloud.
I liked this episode a lot, but it did bother me that the plot was so similar to The Cloud: Voyager encounters a promising energy source, but the power is alive and they end up having to redress harm they've caused by not conducting proper surveys.
Apart from that though, I really did enjoy this one a lot.
posted by mordax at 11:00 PM on February 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pointless STO Comparison of the Week: Autonomous sapient holograms are available as crew in the era of Star Trek Online, though hard to come by.
Equipment Tally: No change, though they were temporarily down one Ensign Harry Kim again.
Notes:
* I'm counting this as a roundabout 'something bizarre happens to Harry' episode.
Granted, he's offscreen for the whole thing, but it didn't escape my attention that the weird energy aliens picked *his* holodeck adventure time to take prisoners.
* Chakotay comes off pretty well here.
I think this might be the first time I've gotten to say this, but Chakotay comes across the way they want him to here: he's thoughtful, educated and his fictitious cultural reference is both funny and plausible. He also works pretty well opposite Tuvok: they had a sort of mild Bones/Spock dynamic going for a few minutes.
* I'm in the 'this is probably the best holodeck episode they've done' camp.
The cheesy sets mixed with actual quotes from Beowulf totally tracks with how I picture the holodeck needing to work: pretty phony to anybody who knows what's what, more centered on video game/cinematic reality. I thought the whole deal was perfect. I was also pleased to see a young Marjorie Monaghan in the episode - I forgot that I'd seen her here before her (pretty great) recurring role on Babylon 5.
I also appreciated that for once, the holodeck problem had an external cause - this wasn't the fault of the holodeck safeties sucking, or someone telling the holodeck to craft an opponent capable of defeating Harry Kim or something. This was a bona fide alien encounter that - despite the incredibly silly technobable - at least holds to some sort of internal consistency and doesn't paint the holodeck as the dumbest Trek innovation ever.
Plus, Picardo sells the hell out of it. My recollection of Voyager was always that he was the MVP, and the rewatch continues to bear that out. As others have mentioned above, I do wish they'd made more of his first encounter with other holograms, but I feel like he did the best he could with the runtime. (I suspect they would've needed a two-parter to really get into that, and the material wouldn't have stretched that far.)
* This plot was entirely too similar to The Cloud.
I liked this episode a lot, but it did bother me that the plot was so similar to The Cloud: Voyager encounters a promising energy source, but the power is alive and they end up having to redress harm they've caused by not conducting proper surveys.
Apart from that though, I really did enjoy this one a lot.
posted by mordax at 11:00 PM on February 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, WRT whether or not Freya is sentient and why the Doctor feels strongly about her if she's not, it's certainly a thing for people to relate to and have feelings for characters while at the same time being quite aware that they're fictional characters, as witness pretty much all of fandom. (There doesn't even need to be that much support in the text for it; see, for example, the legions of Kirk/Spock shippers, the original slashfic pairing.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:45 AM on February 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:45 AM on February 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's a very fair point. I'd expect that to be a lot more intense with Turing-capable AI, too. (Like, while Paris' waifu is sad, I'd totally expect that to happen.)
posted by mordax at 9:52 AM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mordax at 9:52 AM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I liked this episode a lot, but it did bother me that the plot was so similar to The Cloud: Voyager encounters a promising energy source, but the power is alive and they end up having to redress harm they've caused by not conducting proper surveys.
Heh. It's amusing to imagine Janeway getting downright paranoid about this. I can see her eventually starting to check every single object she comes across that is even remotely unusual to see if it might actually be sentient. Strange asteroid? Better check to see if it's alive. Morning cup of coffee unusually warm? Better talk to it to see if it responds. Lights flickering in the ready room? Make slow and deliberate gestures just in case they're trying to communicate with you.
I'd wager future Starfleet Academy students will name the phenomenon after her and call any unexpected belief in sentience pulling a Janeway or something of the sort. Assuming they believe any of it. Living nebulae, living light, living identity stealing ooze, scads of renegade holodeck characters, and a freaking squadron of smart missiles, literally smart, which is completely nutso, among other things.
Assigned log readings and discussion at the Academy would be, um, interesting; starting off with ladykiller Kirk and his rather two fisted way of working around the prime directive, move on to Borg-Picard and his frequent out of body experiences, and then on to "It's Alive!" Janeway and her rather astonishing adventures in arbitrary decision making. I'd wager there'd be no shortage of arguments and drop outs in Advanced Starship Command courses most semesters.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:37 PM on February 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Heh. It's amusing to imagine Janeway getting downright paranoid about this. I can see her eventually starting to check every single object she comes across that is even remotely unusual to see if it might actually be sentient. Strange asteroid? Better check to see if it's alive. Morning cup of coffee unusually warm? Better talk to it to see if it responds. Lights flickering in the ready room? Make slow and deliberate gestures just in case they're trying to communicate with you.
I'd wager future Starfleet Academy students will name the phenomenon after her and call any unexpected belief in sentience pulling a Janeway or something of the sort. Assuming they believe any of it. Living nebulae, living light, living identity stealing ooze, scads of renegade holodeck characters, and a freaking squadron of smart missiles, literally smart, which is completely nutso, among other things.
Assigned log readings and discussion at the Academy would be, um, interesting; starting off with ladykiller Kirk and his rather two fisted way of working around the prime directive, move on to Borg-Picard and his frequent out of body experiences, and then on to "It's Alive!" Janeway and her rather astonishing adventures in arbitrary decision making. I'd wager there'd be no shortage of arguments and drop outs in Advanced Starship Command courses most semesters.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:37 PM on February 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Morning cup of coffee unusually warm? Better talk to it to see if it responds.
Odo used to turn part of himself into a cup of coffee and pretend to drink it. He also came to Quark's with a baby changeling in a cup and was talking to it, which led to Worf giving his glass of prune juice slightly worried looks.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:05 PM on February 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Odo used to turn part of himself into a cup of coffee and pretend to drink it. He also came to Quark's with a baby changeling in a cup and was talking to it, which led to Worf giving his glass of prune juice slightly worried looks.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:05 PM on February 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
So what happens if you drink a changeling?
I liked this episode. The holodeck characters were totally overacted. Totally unlike the more subdued acting in Janeway's holoprogram next episode. Still, it somehow felt natural since they were (in) a holo-adventure.
As an aside, the "holonovel"/"holoadventure" terminology was never used that I recall in 7 seasons of TNG and it isn't like they didn't often drink from that trough. Why the change?
posted by wierdo at 7:11 AM on February 15, 2017
I liked this episode. The holodeck characters were totally overacted. Totally unlike the more subdued acting in Janeway's holoprogram next episode. Still, it somehow felt natural since they were (in) a holo-adventure.
As an aside, the "holonovel"/"holoadventure" terminology was never used that I recall in 7 seasons of TNG and it isn't like they didn't often drink from that trough. Why the change?
posted by wierdo at 7:11 AM on February 15, 2017
Maybe to help differentiate those programs from more utilitarian holographic programs like the Doctor? I'm not too familiar with TNG, but my impression was that the holodeck was entertainment only.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:20 AM on February 15, 2017
posted by dinty_moore at 7:20 AM on February 15, 2017
As an aside, the "holonovel"/"holoadventure" terminology was never used that I recall in 7 seasons of TNG and it isn't like they didn't often drink from that trough. Why the change?
--
I'm not too familiar with TNG, but my impression was that the holodeck was entertainment only.
I'm almost positive that it was used for training at some point. (Not to mention actual missions/investigations when necessary, such as the alien abduction episode with the table.)
But yeah, Dixon Hill at minimum counts as a "holonovel," one would think. Unless it was actually a "holo-short-story" like Data's Holmes programs presumably were. "Holo-short-story" is a mouthful.
Let's also not forget that, very early in TNG's run (maybe even the pilot?), it is implied—by Riker's apparent amazement at a program while it's running—that holodeck technology might be sssssort of new. Noncanon doesn't fully support this interpretation IMO, but if we assume it is sort of new, then the terminology branching into more specific iterations is very plausible.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:50 AM on February 15, 2017
--
I'm not too familiar with TNG, but my impression was that the holodeck was entertainment only.
I'm almost positive that it was used for training at some point. (Not to mention actual missions/investigations when necessary, such as the alien abduction episode with the table.)
But yeah, Dixon Hill at minimum counts as a "holonovel," one would think. Unless it was actually a "holo-short-story" like Data's Holmes programs presumably were. "Holo-short-story" is a mouthful.
Let's also not forget that, very early in TNG's run (maybe even the pilot?), it is implied—by Riker's apparent amazement at a program while it's running—that holodeck technology might be sssssort of new. Noncanon doesn't fully support this interpretation IMO, but if we assume it is sort of new, then the terminology branching into more specific iterations is very plausible.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:50 AM on February 15, 2017
I'm not entirely clear on the timeline between the different shows, but since Worf and Chief O'Brien appear on DS9 and Voyager at least meets up with Quark on the start of their show, it'd seem like the timelines are fairly compact. Which, if memory serves, makes holodeck tech, according to Voyager, older as Janeway I think tells Naomi Wildman that she played with the same holostory as a child as Naomi does in a later episode. Which, if right, would make the tech older than TNG, unless Janeway had access to some earlier test model or something. (That Naomi Wildman episode was another that I thought did well with the holodeck idea. More an interactive environment with some story possibilities than a straight replay of a novel.)
The use of the holodeck to act as something of a test lab also seems pretty reasonable, just as it would for training. No doubt crews would love the entertainment option, particularly the more "adult" options it could afford, but I'd think there'd be far more call for duplicating real places at home too instead of bucolic Irish pubs or Parisian lounges from the mid-twentieth century or prior. Not only to connect to family, sort of a way to enact letters from home, but just to get away from the confines of the ship and small crew and walk the current streets of wherever a crew member calls home. The writers really didn't seem too interested in thinking through the tech at first and more just wanted it to give the cast a chance to act in more archaic storylines.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:31 PM on February 15, 2017
The use of the holodeck to act as something of a test lab also seems pretty reasonable, just as it would for training. No doubt crews would love the entertainment option, particularly the more "adult" options it could afford, but I'd think there'd be far more call for duplicating real places at home too instead of bucolic Irish pubs or Parisian lounges from the mid-twentieth century or prior. Not only to connect to family, sort of a way to enact letters from home, but just to get away from the confines of the ship and small crew and walk the current streets of wherever a crew member calls home. The writers really didn't seem too interested in thinking through the tech at first and more just wanted it to give the cast a chance to act in more archaic storylines.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:31 PM on February 15, 2017
so it would make sense that he would probably interact with other holographic projections differently, that he might not just assume it's 'just a program'. And we don't really see that here.
They don't really draw attention to it, but there's at least one act by the Doctor points to that: his refusal to kill Unferth, citing his Hippocratic Oath. If the Doctor viewed Unferth as "just a program," he might not have any qualms about killing him.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:05 PM on December 3, 2017
They don't really draw attention to it, but there's at least one act by the Doctor points to that: his refusal to kill Unferth, citing his Hippocratic Oath. If the Doctor viewed Unferth as "just a program," he might not have any qualms about killing him.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:05 PM on December 3, 2017
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Besides the set dressing being kind of cheesy even by Star Trek standards, it was a solid enough episode. I thought it was going to be Harry Kim nerding out for an hour, but getting the Doctor being completely out of his element is perfectly fine, too.
The interactions between the Doctor and other holograms raised more questions, though - does it seem weird to him? Like, they clearly have less capacity for learning and action than he does, but this is still the first time he's interacted with other holograms on the show.
Hi I have caught up with you guys now, though I'm still working my way through DS9 when feels allow
posted by dinty_moore at 10:01 AM on February 9, 2017 [2 favorites]