Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: When It Rains... Rewatch
December 12, 2016 6:25 AM - Season 7, Episode 21 - Subscribe
...it pours... plot twists. The Klingons hold the key to victory over the Dominion, and a canny and judicious leader could use that to hold them at bay until the entire Alliance was ready to join them; unfortunately, the Empire has Gowron. Kira changes her clothes and Garak makes a call. Dukat finds out that when the Pah-wraiths say "for the Kai's eyes only", they mean it. And the only cure for someone's fever (not the sexy kind) isn't more cowbell, and Bashir and O'Brien have to go to the last people (ostensibly) on their side who they want to see to get it. (Series Finale - Part 5 of 9)
You know, guys like Memory Alpha are used to sitting behind their desks, not under them:
- Ron Moore summed this episode up by declaring that "Damar is Spartacus!"
- René Echevarria used this episode to execute his plan to stall the Dukat/Winn plot, after he realized during the composition of "'Til Death Do Us Part" that the story had been introduced too early and couldn't sustain itself over nine episodes; "We started it too soon and we ran out of story for them. Suddenly we realized that we didn't need them again until the final episode. I was told, 'Find a way to stall.' I needed to leave them in a place where the audience would feel, 'Okay, they're doing this, but I don't need to see them do it.' And I came up with the idea of blinding Dukat." Dukat's blindness and Winn having him thrown out onto the streets of the Bajoran capital effectively removes both Dukat and Winn from the arc for several episodes, until the finale "What You Leave Behind".
- Andrew J. Robinson felt that Garak and Damar should have had a scene in which they discussed Ziyal's death at Damar's hands in the sixth season episode "Sacrifice of Angels"; "The writers didn't give Garak a lot of room to adjust or react initially to Damar, given that Damar had killed Ziyal. It essentially went unresolved, and I had to squeeze some subtext into the beginning of the first scene between them."
- Odo begins to exhibit symptoms of the morphogenic virus in this episode, and Bashir determines that he was infected "over three years ago," during his time on Earth in the episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost". Odo subsequently infected the Great Link in the fourth season finale "Broken Link". Presumably, he was also 'cured' of the virus in that episode when he was made a solid, and he was subsequently re-infected by the Female Changeling in the sixth season episode "Behind the Lines". This could also mean that Odo infected Laas when he linked with him in "Chimera".
- This episode is Robert O'Reilly's first appearance as Gowron in more than two years. He last played the character in the fifth season episode "By Inferno's Light" (though he did play the Replacement Accountant in DS9: "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang").
- Vaughn Armstrong makes his second appearance in the series, on his way to playing an unequaled thirteen roles in various Star Trek series.
"I warned you! The text of the Kosst Amojan is for my eyes alone!"
- Winn
"We're next."
"You're kidding?"
"I wish I were."
- Sisko and Ross, when seeing the cutting ritual on Martok's initiation
"Doctor Mora was kind enough to share his data with me. This looks like the scans he did when he first found Odo."
"Are you sure? That's a lot of numbers there."
"I saw it with my own eyes, not seven years ago."
- Julian Bashir and Miles O'Brien
You know, guys like Memory Alpha are used to sitting behind their desks, not under them:
- Ron Moore summed this episode up by declaring that "Damar is Spartacus!"
- René Echevarria used this episode to execute his plan to stall the Dukat/Winn plot, after he realized during the composition of "'Til Death Do Us Part" that the story had been introduced too early and couldn't sustain itself over nine episodes; "We started it too soon and we ran out of story for them. Suddenly we realized that we didn't need them again until the final episode. I was told, 'Find a way to stall.' I needed to leave them in a place where the audience would feel, 'Okay, they're doing this, but I don't need to see them do it.' And I came up with the idea of blinding Dukat." Dukat's blindness and Winn having him thrown out onto the streets of the Bajoran capital effectively removes both Dukat and Winn from the arc for several episodes, until the finale "What You Leave Behind".
- Andrew J. Robinson felt that Garak and Damar should have had a scene in which they discussed Ziyal's death at Damar's hands in the sixth season episode "Sacrifice of Angels"; "The writers didn't give Garak a lot of room to adjust or react initially to Damar, given that Damar had killed Ziyal. It essentially went unresolved, and I had to squeeze some subtext into the beginning of the first scene between them."
- Odo begins to exhibit symptoms of the morphogenic virus in this episode, and Bashir determines that he was infected "over three years ago," during his time on Earth in the episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost". Odo subsequently infected the Great Link in the fourth season finale "Broken Link". Presumably, he was also 'cured' of the virus in that episode when he was made a solid, and he was subsequently re-infected by the Female Changeling in the sixth season episode "Behind the Lines". This could also mean that Odo infected Laas when he linked with him in "Chimera".
- This episode is Robert O'Reilly's first appearance as Gowron in more than two years. He last played the character in the fifth season episode "By Inferno's Light" (though he did play the Replacement Accountant in DS9: "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang").
- Vaughn Armstrong makes his second appearance in the series, on his way to playing an unequaled thirteen roles in various Star Trek series.
"I warned you! The text of the Kosst Amojan is for my eyes alone!"
- Winn
"We're next."
"You're kidding?"
"I wish I were."
- Sisko and Ross, when seeing the cutting ritual on Martok's initiation
"Doctor Mora was kind enough to share his data with me. This looks like the scans he did when he first found Odo."
"Are you sure? That's a lot of numbers there."
"I saw it with my own eyes, not seven years ago."
- Julian Bashir and Miles O'Brien
This could also mean that Odo infected Laas when he linked with him in "Chimera".
Aww geez I never even thought of that :(
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:57 AM on December 12, 2016
Aww geez I never even thought of that :(
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:57 AM on December 12, 2016
I really did like DS9, but constantly reading about the writers having such difficulty stringing out 9 episodes back to back with a serial story.... just makes me appreciate JMS even more, he made it look so effortless (he wrote 92 of the 110 Babylon 5 episodes).
I've heard that JMS enjoyed near-total control of the creative process. If that's the case (I confess to being fairly ignorant of B5), it seems plausible to me that generating a non-nonsensical serial story would be way easier if you were one writer instead of, like, seven. In that light, I find it surprising that the whole nine-episode DS9 finale has so few clunky elements.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:58 AM on December 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've heard that JMS enjoyed near-total control of the creative process. If that's the case (I confess to being fairly ignorant of B5), it seems plausible to me that generating a non-nonsensical serial story would be way easier if you were one writer instead of, like, seven. In that light, I find it surprising that the whole nine-episode DS9 finale has so few clunky elements.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:58 AM on December 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I actually like that Damar and Garak didn't have it out over Ziyal. That's not Garak's way. He never addresses things head on. Plus everything about the way he sees the world would suggest that he believes that really bad things happen in life, and there's no point in dwelling. Think of how lustily he could have sought revenge against Enabran Tain for ostracizing him from the Obsidian Order and Cardassia. But he never really bothers. In fact, he embraces Tain the first chance he gets.
posted by dry white toast at 11:32 AM on December 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 11:32 AM on December 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've heard that JMS enjoyed near-total control of the creative process. If that's the case (I confess to being fairly ignorant of B5), it seems plausible to me that generating a non-nonsensical serial story would be way easier if you were one writer instead of, like, seven. In that light, I find it surprising that the whole nine-episode DS9 finale has so few clunky elements.
He was show runner and executive producer at some point too I think, so a lot of control. And yeah, it's probably way easier to do it this way, communication inside your brain is just way faster than with other persons ; )
Anyway I don't want to diss on DS9, I liked the DS9 and the finale too. I just thought it was amusing they thought it was such an achievement "9 continuous episodes!", while the other space show running at the same time practically did it for a whole season with one writer.
posted by coust at 12:52 PM on December 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
He was show runner and executive producer at some point too I think, so a lot of control. And yeah, it's probably way easier to do it this way, communication inside your brain is just way faster than with other persons ; )
Anyway I don't want to diss on DS9, I liked the DS9 and the finale too. I just thought it was amusing they thought it was such an achievement "9 continuous episodes!", while the other space show running at the same time practically did it for a whole season with one writer.
posted by coust at 12:52 PM on December 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Garak is all about getting the job done, so I guess it's not so surprising he'd dispense with his grudge against Damar. He's also probably used to working with people he finds unsavory. As a spy and torturer, he's probably had to work with people who've done worse than Damar.
Also from Memory Alpha: Nana Visitor also felt that a scene between herself and Damar in which they too discuss Ziyal would have been appropriate, but as she explains, "Ira pointed out that on a larger level, it didn't help anyone. We'd been trying to turn Damar into this new type of figure, and this would be a step backward. So we decided to focus more on Damar because he's the one torn between his Cardassian comrades and their feelings and dealing with Kira. It was the right choice."
Jeez, I had no idea I'd seen Vaughn Armstrong so many times! Either he's really good at disappearing into a role (I'm sure the rubber prosthetics helped) or he has a remarkably unremarkable face. If I added up all the reruns I've probably spent a week of my life watching this guy, yet if I saw him on the street I wouldn't have a clue.
Argh, we're running out of episodes! I am gonna miss these threads when they're gone. I think I'm one of the few Voyager fans around, and I suspect an Enterprise rewatch would peter out pretty quick, so this'll probably be our last excuse to gab about old school Trek. Maybe we can all reconvene when/if that new Trek show hits the air.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:31 PM on December 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also from Memory Alpha: Nana Visitor also felt that a scene between herself and Damar in which they too discuss Ziyal would have been appropriate, but as she explains, "Ira pointed out that on a larger level, it didn't help anyone. We'd been trying to turn Damar into this new type of figure, and this would be a step backward. So we decided to focus more on Damar because he's the one torn between his Cardassian comrades and their feelings and dealing with Kira. It was the right choice."
Jeez, I had no idea I'd seen Vaughn Armstrong so many times! Either he's really good at disappearing into a role (I'm sure the rubber prosthetics helped) or he has a remarkably unremarkable face. If I added up all the reruns I've probably spent a week of my life watching this guy, yet if I saw him on the street I wouldn't have a clue.
Argh, we're running out of episodes! I am gonna miss these threads when they're gone. I think I'm one of the few Voyager fans around, and I suspect an Enterprise rewatch would peter out pretty quick, so this'll probably be our last excuse to gab about old school Trek. Maybe we can all reconvene when/if that new Trek show hits the air.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:31 PM on December 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Garak is all about getting the job done, so I guess it's not so surprising he'd dispense with his grudge against Damar. He's also probably used to working with people he finds unsavory. As a spy and torturer, he's probably had to work with people who've done worse than Damar.
And yet this was Ziyal; this was personal. I wish I'd caught the "subtext" Andrew Robinson hints at. I mean, all of the early scenes with Damar and Our Heroes definitely had a certain tension, but we should have at least gotten a nice close shot of a GarakTM Cold Stare.
Maybe we can all reconvene when/if that new Trek show hits the air.
Fuckin' A. I know I'm in anyway, however reluctantly, for the CBS Executive Special Platinum Extra-Fancy Web Streaming Service.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:15 AM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
And yet this was Ziyal; this was personal. I wish I'd caught the "subtext" Andrew Robinson hints at. I mean, all of the early scenes with Damar and Our Heroes definitely had a certain tension, but we should have at least gotten a nice close shot of a GarakTM Cold Stare.
Maybe we can all reconvene when/if that new Trek show hits the air.
Fuckin' A. I know I'm in anyway, however reluctantly, for the CBS Executive Special Platinum Extra-Fancy Web Streaming Service.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:15 AM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think I'm one of the few Voyager fans around, and I suspect an Enterprise rewatch would peter out pretty quick, so this'll probably be our last excuse to gab about old school Trek.
I would love to continue this with either Voyager or Enterprise.
posted by zarq at 8:50 AM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would love to continue this with either Voyager or Enterprise.
posted by zarq at 8:50 AM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Kind of an interesting episode because it deals in part with two people who are pretty obviously acting in opposition to what would be best for their people: Gowron and Gul Rusot. Gowron's insistence on taking over from Martok isn't really surprising, as Gowron has always been something of a scheming, opportunistic dick; back in TNG, he wouldn't restore Worf's house at first even after Worf killed Duras because it would have upset the High Council, and later had to be armtwisted into helping Picard and Data get to Romulus to investigate Spock going there because Gowron didn't want to acknowledge his debt to the Federation in helping him win the civil war. In DS9, he was quick to throw out the Khitomer Accords and slow to restore them, again for political reasons.
Rusot, on the other hand, is probably just a space racist, although he's not explicit about it; he criticizes the plot to attack Rondac as being a Romulan thing to do, and prods his buddy into taunting Kira about Odo's past arrests of Bajorans just to stir shit up. (One thing that I found interesting is that John Vickery, the actor who plays Rusot, originated the role of Scar in the Broadway production of The Lion King, and even though I've never seen the musical, I can totally see him in that role.) It doesn't need to be said aloud that, if there's one thing that a covert resistance cell really can't have, it's someone like that just fucking around out of spite, but he can't seem to stop himself. It's a little easier to watch this time around, knowing that they're both going to get theirs.
Also interesting: Kira being willing to put on a Starfleet uniform. Part of it is that it's not just a matter of her putting on civilian clothes, say, the infamous macrame vest. Giving her Starfleet rank helps her assert authority over Cardassians who are willing to respect the uniform if not the person, with the obvious exception of diehard grudge-holders like Rusot. But it's also a measure of how far she's come from the person who really hated seeing Starfleet play any role in running the station back in the first season. And a nice touch: Quark getting coffee for Bashir and O'Brien specifically because they're helping Odo. I follow a couple of Odo/Quark shippers on Tumblr, and while I think that they ship them because of the odd-couple-ness of it primarily, there are also scenes like this one.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:13 AM on December 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rusot, on the other hand, is probably just a space racist, although he's not explicit about it; he criticizes the plot to attack Rondac as being a Romulan thing to do, and prods his buddy into taunting Kira about Odo's past arrests of Bajorans just to stir shit up. (One thing that I found interesting is that John Vickery, the actor who plays Rusot, originated the role of Scar in the Broadway production of The Lion King, and even though I've never seen the musical, I can totally see him in that role.) It doesn't need to be said aloud that, if there's one thing that a covert resistance cell really can't have, it's someone like that just fucking around out of spite, but he can't seem to stop himself. It's a little easier to watch this time around, knowing that they're both going to get theirs.
Also interesting: Kira being willing to put on a Starfleet uniform. Part of it is that it's not just a matter of her putting on civilian clothes, say, the infamous macrame vest. Giving her Starfleet rank helps her assert authority over Cardassians who are willing to respect the uniform if not the person, with the obvious exception of diehard grudge-holders like Rusot. But it's also a measure of how far she's come from the person who really hated seeing Starfleet play any role in running the station back in the first season. And a nice touch: Quark getting coffee for Bashir and O'Brien specifically because they're helping Odo. I follow a couple of Odo/Quark shippers on Tumblr, and while I think that they ship them because of the odd-couple-ness of it primarily, there are also scenes like this one.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:13 AM on December 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would love to continue this with either Voyager or Enterprise.
I'm in for Voyager. You can remind me I said this during the long slog of boring Kazon episodes.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:02 PM on December 13, 2016
I'm in for Voyager. You can remind me I said this during the long slog of boring Kazon episodes.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:02 PM on December 13, 2016
Might as well start working on my own version of this meme.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:00 PM on December 13, 2016
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:00 PM on December 13, 2016
I made a FanFare Talk to collect our opinions (and those of anyone who's avoiding the DS9 discussions!) about which Trek to do next. It's my first FanFare Talk so I hope I didn't screw it up.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:13 PM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:13 PM on December 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wrong thread, maybe, but I got just a few episodes into VOY in 2016 before my travel schedule screwed up my running schedule. Typically I start running in January so I'm down with a Voywatch.
posted by mwhybark at 1:19 AM on December 15, 2016
posted by mwhybark at 1:19 AM on December 15, 2016
(PS. I scored a red thinkgeek TNG hoodie on ebay in my size. My wife's giving it to me for Xmas.)
posted by mwhybark at 1:20 AM on December 15, 2016
posted by mwhybark at 1:20 AM on December 15, 2016
I know I’m super late to the party, but guys, Andrew Robinson’s “anyway” is one of the great line readings of all time.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:28 PM on January 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:28 PM on January 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
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posted by coust at 9:46 AM on December 12, 2016 [1 favorite]